EP137 Vicki Bell | Portrait Commercial & Fine Art Photographer

[00:00:11] Speaker A: Snapping frames chasing light shadows dance day to night Land sharp soul in sight the camera whispers hold it tight. [00:00:21] Speaker B: You got the moves. [00:00:22] Speaker C: Vicky. [00:00:28] Speaker A: The camera light the flashing nights claim the world. [00:00:39] Speaker B: That was beautiful. That was absolutely gorgeous. Welcome, everybody, to the Camera Live podcast. It is the 27th of November, not long now, and Santa will be on his way. If you. If you fall for that sort of stuff. [00:00:51] Speaker C: You mean you'll be on your way? [00:00:53] Speaker B: I will be on my way. I'll be swapping the. I like how we're bookending our guest today. We're. Look, we've got a uniform happening. We need to get. We need to get our guest an army green Lucky Straps T shirt. But. But look, this is episode 137 of the camera Live podcast. And being a Thursday morning, of course, we have a guest joining us today. We are joined by portrait photographer and workshop instructor and educator, Vicki Bell. G', day, Vicki. How are you? [00:01:23] Speaker A: That was. That was my aerobics for this morning. [00:01:25] Speaker C: That was pretty good. [00:01:26] Speaker B: I like the. Especially like the flashing lights move. That, that. That's new. For a moment there, I kind of had a bit of a. Well, maybe we could take the show on the road. We could be Justin Greg and the Solid Gold dancer. That would be movie. [00:01:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:40] Speaker B: Do a stage show. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Talk. Let's have our people talk. [00:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we'll talk. Yeah. How are you? You good? [00:01:47] Speaker A: I'm fabulous, thank you. Always fabulous. Thank you. Thanks for inviting me too, by the way. I really appreciate it. [00:01:54] Speaker C: Thanks for joining us. [00:01:55] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks for showing us the invites. Just half the battle. [00:01:59] Speaker A: This is your life. You know, it's like that episode, that series back in the 70s. [00:02:04] Speaker B: I used to love that show. [00:02:07] Speaker C: This is your camera life. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:09] Speaker B: Hey, nice, nice. And of course, we are joined today by. By Lucky Straps founder extraordinaire, Justin Castles. How are you, boss? [00:02:18] Speaker C: I'm good. [00:02:18] Speaker B: We really need to coordinate our outfits better in the mornings. [00:02:21] Speaker C: I know they're a little bit too close, but not close enough. Like we're not perfectly matching, but they're a bit too close. [00:02:27] Speaker B: That's the Canon color science screwing things up. [00:02:31] Speaker C: Oh, speaking of which, I've been having. I'll talk about on Monday's show. I spent yesterday trying to get my printer calibrated. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Still. [00:02:39] Speaker C: It's. Yeah, it's just like, close but not right. It's. It's a beautiful printer, but it's because. [00:02:48] Speaker B: You were singing its praises, you know, a month ago when it arrived. [00:02:53] Speaker C: It's hard to explain a Canon Pro 1100. So, like, it'll do up to like a 2. So it's pretty big. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Wow, it's glorious. [00:03:01] Speaker C: Yeah, it's awesome. So I've been printing all these photos, doing tests and stuff, but the problem I'm having. Ah, it'll be too bright for you. [00:03:08] Speaker A: To angle it down. [00:03:09] Speaker C: Yeah. What like this? [00:03:10] Speaker A: Oh, nice. [00:03:12] Speaker C: So. So the problem I'm having is they just show it. Where are we? Hang on. I can do this. It's. Everything's backwards. I can't point to the right spot. There it is. This thing that's green is. Is like light blue. [00:03:26] Speaker A: Oh, that's really odd. [00:03:28] Speaker C: Yeah. And I cannot figure out. And I've. I've got paper profiles and everything. Same with this water from New Zealand. This water rushing through this stream is actually supposed to be like closer to blue than it is that. That sort of lighty green. It's. It's subtle. [00:03:47] Speaker B: Is it contrast off too or is that just your photography, Greg? [00:03:51] Speaker C: What? [00:03:52] Speaker B: No, it's just a genuine question. If you need help, we've got Vicky here. Vicky's an expert. She can give you some advice. [00:03:57] Speaker C: This is a beautiful photo I have. You know, the contrast is perfect. Stunning. Actually. I do need some help. Anyway, long story short, I spent a lot of time yesterday wasting really expensive photo paper trying to get this printer to be exactly what I want. But we're getting. [00:04:15] Speaker B: What about the ink? [00:04:16] Speaker C: I didn't even think about the ink. [00:04:19] Speaker A: What are you doing with the prints? What's the destiny of your prints? [00:04:23] Speaker C: To start with? I just wanted to be able to print my work nice more regularly. Like just. I just whim. Yep. I just want to print. But I would like to. So a couple of things I want to. One thing I want to do is have print parties at my house. Yeah. My friends don't print their photos enough and I'm not, not professional anything like just like photos of their kids from their phone or whatever. It's like just come over and we'll have pizzas and just have the printer rolling. [00:04:54] Speaker B: Print. [00:04:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:56] Speaker A: You could do a print swap as a like, you know, the way to share your work together. [00:05:00] Speaker B: That's a great idea. [00:05:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:02] Speaker B: You know, at bfop, our good friend Bruce Moyle Brucie gifted both Justin and I with a print. Yes. And I've since framed it. It's on our. It's on our wall of art. But. But yeah, it was so lovely. It was such a gorgeous, such a heartwarming experience to, to really receive that and go, oh wow, this is something. And we. It was a photo that he took While he and I were on a street walk in Melbourne a couple of weeks before. Be up. It was such a lovely. Just. Yeah, it was, you know, it's tangible. It was tactile. It was good to stand there and marvel at it. So, yeah, it was cool. [00:05:37] Speaker A: Here's a nice little one that happened years ago when I was with the, you know, part of the aipp in the early days running the Christmas parties. I think it was the first year that I actually got to run the first Christmas party after taking it over from someone else. And we used to sort of kind of give people like, you know, little bottles of champagne or, you know, just like little gems like that. And I thought, wouldn't it be nice to do a. A Christmas kind of Christmas mingle jingle? So you would swap your favorite five by seven card. [00:06:10] Speaker B: I thought you were going to say keys. Sorry, go on. [00:06:13] Speaker A: That was another party of it. [00:06:16] Speaker C: Wow. [00:06:17] Speaker B: No wonder the IAPP went down so quick. [00:06:20] Speaker A: You know, what we did was everyone would just pull their phone, their five by sevens of their favorite art piece or whatever it was that they created, and then they would have to find the author during the party to meet them. It was a way of people kind of getting to know each other that might have been. [00:06:35] Speaker C: That's fun. So it was really fun. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Christmas mingle jingle. [00:06:39] Speaker B: That's a really good idea to get people to mingle. Like, did you make this photo? No, but let me see it. Like, you know, it's just such a good conversation. [00:06:48] Speaker A: It's like swap cards. When we were kids, like, used to, you know, have swap cards. I don't know if you guys. Probably not. You might have played with, like, I don't know, Jax or something. Maybe. Maybe Greg, not so much. Justin. [00:07:00] Speaker B: Sorry. No, no, no. I. I was. I had Star Wars, I had Empire Strikes Back swap cards, and they came with bubble gum in the pocket. [00:07:07] Speaker A: Why don't we. Same thing. It's lovely. It's beautiful. [00:07:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And do you print. Do you print much of your work now, Vicki? [00:07:14] Speaker A: I used to. I'm actually thinking about buying another printer, so I've got a Epson printer. [00:07:19] Speaker B: Don't get the Canon. [00:07:20] Speaker C: Well, look, I have to. Okay, So I. This is bad judging because I'm judging an old Epson to a new Canon, but the new Canon was significantly easier to set up and everything other than this green blue issue that I'm having. And I've got. I've done all the profiles. I don't know, we'll talk about on Monday. I've even taken. I'VE taken photos. You know what's super interesting as well? Because, like, obviously the first question that I got, rightfully so, was like, are your monitors calibrated? And we'll get to you in a second, Vicky. This is an interview about your life, but the first question was, are your monitors calibrated? And honestly, they actually haven't been calibrated for a little while, but I'm very. I'm pretty aware of. Because I've got a MacBook Pro and a separate external monitor that has been calibrated, but not for a little while. And it's like, I'm kind of aware that it's a different color to this, but, like, the greens and blues are the same on both of them. They're the same on my phone, they're the same on other people's devices, but they're different on the printer. So I'm like, I'm pretty aware that the problem is something in the way that. And I'm guessing what Bruce said. [00:08:30] Speaker B: I. [00:08:30] Speaker C: Bet it's your color adaption settings. And I don't even know what that means, so it probably is that. But, like, I didn't even know. There's paper profiles. There's now printer profiles called like a 1 MXS or something like that. A whole nother file you can download for your paper and you actually send it to your printer and it sits in the printer, that file. It's. Anyway, there's a whole thing. [00:08:50] Speaker B: But I'll tell you what. [00:08:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:52] Speaker B: Before we get to Vicky, I do want to just chip in quickly to say, if you're looking to make a buck, work out how printers work. Get yourself a Van Ifix all printers, splash it across it. You don't even need fancy graphics, just even just, you know, with the spray can. And you will make a fortune because every person I know has problems with either home office printers or home photo printers. It doesn't matter what you do, how expensive your computer is, it just. We just get these issues. [00:09:18] Speaker A: It's weird as well. With what, sorry, Whipper snippers. [00:09:23] Speaker B: Also printers and whipper snippets. [00:09:26] Speaker C: That's a very niche, very specific. [00:09:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Or you could just go on the premise of, I'm going to fix your printer. By the way, I noticed your lawns look at a bit shadowy with the snippet going. [00:09:39] Speaker C: Robert Varna knows how to calibrate printers. That's how I do it. I once calibrated a printer with a sledgehammer. Yeah, exactly. Before we get started to the chat. All right. We need it. So, Vicky, can you give everyone just a quick 60 second rundown of like, who are you and what. What are you in the world of photography today? [00:09:59] Speaker A: Who am I? I probably need more than 60 seconds. That's. [00:10:03] Speaker C: That's what the rest of the show is. This is just a little teaser, just a little nugget to be like, hey, this is. [00:10:10] Speaker A: So. I guess I'm. Look, I love people. So, you know, whether that's. Yeah. Portraiture, I guess. Yeah. I mean, yeah, anything to do with people, I am there. I love the creative realm and I'm also, I also love this sort of technical side of photography as well. I love education so much. I love sharing. I love, you know, inspiring others and watching them succeed or get a little sparkle in their eye when they've done really when they've had a moment of, you know, an epiphany. I love all that. What else can I say? I've been around for a really long time and I love that I've. I'm still here and that. Sorry. [00:10:48] Speaker B: You've survived every day. [00:10:50] Speaker A: Yeah. It's not even about survival. It's about being, you know, it's been a spark every day. It's like, it's been amazing. I'm really like so grateful. I've had a really. And every day is a new day and I love it. Something new like this. This is great. Yeah. [00:11:05] Speaker C: Isn't it beautiful? Exactly. You know, that was a couple of nerds. [00:11:12] Speaker B: What? [00:11:13] Speaker C: The live chat. And in the live chat we've got. We've got one day at a Time photography. Do you know who this is? I can't wait to hear my. My collapse mum. She's the best human ever on her mum tog. Okay. [00:11:28] Speaker A: Oh, and you guys are my bro togs. Yeah. [00:11:32] Speaker C: Oh, look at that. [00:11:33] Speaker B: I gotta get a T shirt. [00:11:35] Speaker C: Bro tog Raphers. Yeah. [00:11:38] Speaker A: And then I have my sis togs. As you know. You met them all at Beef up all my sig. [00:11:42] Speaker B: All the cows. Yes, we met all the cows. You saw the photo. [00:11:48] Speaker A: I was gonna wear my onesie, actually, my cow ones today. [00:11:51] Speaker C: That would have been awesome. That was such a great night. We'll get to that. [00:11:54] Speaker B: We'll get to that. Anyway, I think Beef up needs to be a week. [00:11:58] Speaker A: Oh my God. I don't think so. No, no, no. [00:12:01] Speaker B: The last person standing wins like a liker or something. You know, just. Let's just see who can like a Mr. [00:12:08] Speaker C: Beast video. [00:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:12:11] Speaker C: Who else is here in the chat? Philip Johnson is here. Lucinda is here. Good morning, Paul. Lisa Leach says. Good morning, guys. Big hello to you, lovely Vicky. [00:12:21] Speaker B: Hey, Lisa. [00:12:23] Speaker C: Ryan Peters is here. David Mascaro, Good to see you. San Francisco. Julie Powell. Good morning. Hey, Julie. Obviously, obviously Bruce is here walking to a job. He's probably already at his job. Unfortunately, we only get him for a short time on Thursday mornings. [00:12:38] Speaker B: Yep. [00:12:40] Speaker A: This is like Romperoon, isn't it? See, see, I get it. [00:12:46] Speaker B: But Justin, doesn't he? We've got a decade on him, Vicky. [00:12:49] Speaker A: At least, and I'm glad for that. Romperin was like a good show and they would have like. Was it like a magnifying glass or a circle? [00:12:56] Speaker B: It was like a magic mirror or something. [00:12:58] Speaker A: Yeah. I can see Greg and I can see Justin. I can see Jess. Good morning. [00:13:04] Speaker B: Yeah, sorry, it was there. It was. It wasn't that part of Mr. Doobie, was it? Mr. Doobie the bee. Yeah, yeah, Mr. Doobie. How do you do? [00:13:13] Speaker A: Yeah, remember that? Well, reminiscent. [00:13:16] Speaker C: Ah. [00:13:16] Speaker B: Anyway, back to photography. Go on, Justin. Sorry. [00:13:18] Speaker C: Well, so you said you were working last night. Was that a photography thing? [00:13:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was shooting. I was shooting a graduation. Like a valedictory dinner, actually. [00:13:29] Speaker C: Oh, okay. So is that like roaming around getting candid shots and. Or doing all the, all the, like the official stuff? [00:13:38] Speaker A: No, no, no. It wasn't so much an event, but most of the family. So I do a bit of work with Craig for, you know, Craig Witchen. So, yeah, Travis photography. And so during the busy season, I'll come on board and help out and I've got to say, I. I have to say, I'm a gun. Like really, like we have a studio set up and literally I think I shot like 21 families within like an hour and a bit, an hour and a half. [00:14:03] Speaker B: Oh, and do you have to edit or do you just hand it over to Craig? [00:14:06] Speaker A: Bang, bang, bang. And I tell you what, everyone goes. That was so much fun. Like, I just, I just. After years of doing it, you kind of just lock into it still make it an amazing experience for everyone still, you know, create the energy and, you know, finesse the detail. Make sure everyone looks fabulous, make sure the kids are comfortable. So we do like, you know, portraits of the graduate and then, you know, with his. Each of his parents or family members and we do group shots. So literally I probably do every three to five minutes, do the next. I mean, we all do, not just me. Like, everyone's amazing and they do incredible job, but it's such, such a. A high paced, energized experience and I think there's a lot to be said in the value of being able to do something like that, regardless of, you know, what we're shooting, the genre or whatever. And I think there's so much value in that. [00:14:55] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. [00:14:56] Speaker B: And can I just say, you know, I, I never, I. I understood it and I tried to emulate it, but I never fully appreciated the importance of the photographer amping up the subjects, you know, making them feel welcome and loved and enjoy and happy and making them laugh and making. Making the experience good for them. Until beef up this year, my wife at the time, Justin, who's wearing a lovely pink nightie and a lovely pink dressing gown. Everyone, My wife at the time, we've since photographer ways. My wife, photographer and watching Justin work with each of the people that came in in their pajamas. He was photographing the pajama party participants and everyone came in and set up a backdrop with Jim and you guys were there, you were in your couch. But just watching Justin work and that energy that he brought and he made every single person feel valued and important, but also he made them laugh. And as a result, the photos are beautiful. Like, they're really stunning. [00:15:55] Speaker A: Thank you so much for doing that. They were phenomenal photos and what a beautiful memory for us. It's just. You look at it and you contagious. You want to just keep laughing. It takes you back to that moment. [00:16:05] Speaker C: It was a fun time. [00:16:06] Speaker A: Thank you. [00:16:07] Speaker C: It was a. It was a good way to spend the night, just hanging out on the door. I got to see everybody. It was great. [00:16:13] Speaker B: But it was taught me a valuable lesson. So. Thanks, boss. First time ever that you've taught me anything, so I'll take that. [00:16:21] Speaker C: We do have sound effects, so. So this, this when you work in the studio like that. So it's like full studio lighting, like a white backdrop or something or like. [00:16:32] Speaker A: A sort of like a really lovely blue mottled background. It's really, you know, it's quite, quite wide actually. And yeah, just one studio. Just one umbrella. That's it. Nice and simple, really. It's really clean. It works. It's really. It's nice and broad and the, you know, the colors are great. Like. Yeah, like, the processing is phenomenal. Like, they do such an amazing job, you know, back at the ranch. Like, it's really high quality. [00:17:00] Speaker C: Yeah, that's cool. Studio photography is fun. It really is. Yeah. I think having a big studio to play in would be. Would be super cool. But what would be hard is I love that it's like just, just one umbrella when you've probably got access, like you could set up if you wanted to get. And you're like, no, don't need to do that. Stop. [00:17:21] Speaker A: Really simple. It's just about. Yeah. Just celebrating the night and the families and you. Just because you always going from single to group. Like last night, I think I ended up photographing all the staff, which was like 25 of them, arranging them within, you know, super fast. And that broad umbrella just made it like, it's perfect. Yeah, well, you know, it's not about creativity. It's not about being fancy. It's. That's a different, you know, kind of situation. [00:17:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Sometimes it's just best to keep it simple and just be part of the experience. And you're kind of focusing on the rapport. And, you know, we, you know, this is photographers like, we. We work a million miles an hour in our brains when we're doing work. We're incredible multitaskers. [00:18:03] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:18:05] Speaker A: There's a lot to be said for that. You know, your eyes are scanning, making sure everything is right. [00:18:11] Speaker B: And I think that's. That's the tricky bit of stepping out of your head to engage the people in the room. That. That has always been the tricky bit for me. And I know when I've been on, I've gone on photo walks and events and things like that with groups, and they'll have a model and no one knows how to engage the model. You know, that'd just be a bunch of amateur photographers, like, not, you know, enthusiasts. And they're all there with these, you know, big, expensive setups and no one knows how to talk to the people in front of them. It always surprises me. [00:18:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:42] Speaker C: I was gonna say, have you got any tips, Vicky, for people that are sort of maybe a little bit more apprehensive when working with groups or even just one person. Have you got any tips of how to make them? [00:18:56] Speaker A: I always skills being at a party and you say, hey, you know, I try and find a common ground or something. Sometimes it's like, you know, it's like, you know, where are you from? Or what else do you do? Or, you know, you might. I always like to compliment, like, I absolutely love your dress. You know, talk about, where did you get that? And that takes me off on a tangent and I'll. Yeah. So just finding a point of connection and then making it about them and then just know. It's just like, you know, if I'm setting up, I'll always say, look, I'm just going to do a few light test Verses. Check out the lighting. Just relax, and then I'm going to direct you. So it's just being. Just communicating. [00:19:32] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:19:33] Speaker A: And I just. [00:19:33] Speaker C: So they're not standing there, think, feeling awkward, like, wondering if these are the photos and you're just dialing the lighting, and they're like, oh, I wasn't ready for that one. That's going to look terrible. And then they're in their head. [00:19:43] Speaker A: And I think we, you know, I always say, like, to the students, when we walk into a room, we're exchanging energy as well. Like, we're. We come in and we bring in that warmth or, you know, we set the tone and the tempo of a session or an interaction. And that's with a smile. It's the way you speak. It's your body language. Like, it's so many little micro things that come together, and it's communicating, just letting people know this is what's going to happen. So they're not going. I don't know what to do. Like, even last night, because I've got to work so fast. The girls will get on there and they go, oh, I don't know what to do. I go, you're in good hands. I'm going to help direct you. So there's a lot of, you know, I just sort of teach my students to mirror and match, like, you know, how to direct someone's body. So I might go, you know, just angle this way a little bit. Chin back to me. Just lean forward from the belly. So I'm always mirroring. And it's so easy. They get it. It's just incredible just how I can. Rather than say, oh, can you move a bit to the right? No, my. Not your right, my right. And it comes. And all of a sudden they become anxious and it just kind of deflates the experience. So it's really important to practice and learn bit by bit through experience how to direct someone and. Yeah. And where. Knowing where to put them or how to engage their body lines or whatever comes with experience. But you don't know until you do it. [00:21:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:02] Speaker A: And everyone's different. Like different body shapes, different faces. And so I'm always kind of curating according to the person in front of me, making it very personalized. Always. [00:21:14] Speaker B: Yeah, because when you walk in that room, you know, you might not feel it, but you're in charge. Like, they're looking to you for guidance. And, like, you're the photographer. [00:21:24] Speaker A: That's right. [00:21:25] Speaker C: I'm. [00:21:25] Speaker B: I'm just the guy standing or the person standing in front of you, you know, I need you to direct me. So it's about recognizing that role without being a joke about it, obviously. [00:21:33] Speaker A: And I think confidence, like, you know, even if you're still like, just beginning in photography, you know, try and find that little bit of confidence. Because then they feel that confidence, like, hey, I'm in good hands. I'm okay. I can surrender to the camera because I feel. Yeah. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:49] Speaker C: I mean, okay, well, let's go. Let's go on level, deeper. How does a newer photographer find that confidence? [00:21:56] Speaker A: Through experience. Anything else? [00:21:58] Speaker C: It's just practice. You can't. You can't. There's no, like. There's no, like, breathing exercises you could do before it. Or. [00:22:07] Speaker A: Make sure. Sometimes I say to my clients, just if I can see the tension. Okay, just. Just breathe. It's okay, you know. Okay, do we need some anesthetic? A little bit of, you know, a bit of gin? Does that help? You know, and then, you know, you find your little. It's funny. I like. My jokes keep getting lost, and it's the same joke over and over. It works every time. But, you know, laughter always breaks the ice. And I always. [00:22:31] Speaker B: What's the joke? Do you want to tell the joke or is it. Is it like a trade secret for you? [00:22:34] Speaker A: I just did. You just laughed. [00:22:37] Speaker B: What was the joke? [00:22:38] Speaker A: Do we need anesthetic with that? [00:22:40] Speaker B: Oh, need a bit of gin. Yeah. Okay. [00:22:41] Speaker C: All right. [00:22:42] Speaker B: Yeah, you got to say. [00:22:42] Speaker A: All right, very subtle ones. [00:22:45] Speaker C: Jim and I have one for big group photos. Like big, big groups at a wedding. So 100, 150 people or whatever. And one of us is up on a ladder. Usually Jim, I don't do it anymore. And. And he'll always, like, get everyone's attention. You have to arrange a few people, get them take their sunnies off and all that sort of dumb stuff. And then he'll do like a three, two, one click. And then the Every. Works every single time. He goes, alrighty, guys, now we'll try one looking a little bit happy. And then everyone's like, ah. Because the first one, they're all like, yeah, just. Just being. Yeah. Being direct. So it works every time. All right, now we'll try one looking a little bit happy. Everyone's like, oh, that's funny. We weren't looking happy. You're right. [00:23:30] Speaker A: I go, volunteer, please. I'd like the tallest person in the room so I can get up, you know, hitch up onto their shoulders. And I go, nice. [00:23:39] Speaker C: That's a good one. [00:23:40] Speaker A: I was like, always having to take my Letter. I even have a little step now, like one of these little fold out steps. It's really quite. And I take it along to every gig now. [00:23:49] Speaker C: Do you really? [00:23:50] Speaker A: Yeah, because otherwise I'm shooting up their noses if I. If I normally. If I don't have a seat and I'm sort of on location. And then they, they laugh and it's. [00:24:00] Speaker C: Like, great, set up your little step stool. [00:24:05] Speaker A: And they're like, we're breaking the ice. It's fantastic. [00:24:07] Speaker C: That is very. [00:24:08] Speaker A: Okay, I'm height challenged. [00:24:11] Speaker C: I challenged. Bruce says, mine is always asking people to try looking like they actually like each other. That's a good one too. [00:24:22] Speaker A: Phrases like little one liners. [00:24:23] Speaker C: So we can help the wedding. The weddings are the toughest one because. So the, the. The bride and groom usually don't get to chat because. Because they spend the mornings apart. Then maybe they text each other or whatever. I have some dramas about the flowers or whatever. And then the ceremony is just a blur. And then everyone, congratulations, all that stuff. Then family photos, they're smiling. And then we get to take them away and do some photos. That's the first moment they actually get a chance to chat. Usually when we say, go for a stroll down this, this nice path and we'll get some shots, don't worry about us. You guys just have a chat. Immediately they start chatting about something bad that's unfolded that day or something that wasn't right or whatever. And we're like, guys, guys, talk about happy shit. What are you doing? Because, like, it almost always happens where they're like, oh, did you see someone, you know this happened or that happened or this didn't show up or I can't believe that Artie's so and so is wearing white. And yeah, you can just see their faces change when they start talking about some, some problem on the day. You're like, no, no, no, let's talk about that later. [00:25:30] Speaker A: I'm sure there's a book somewhere in all the kind of wedding dramas. [00:25:34] Speaker B: Yeah. If not, they should be. [00:25:35] Speaker A: There should be another book. All right. We're building a little entrepreneurial kind of adventure little project. [00:25:41] Speaker B: Nice. [00:25:44] Speaker C: Just quickly before we keep rolling on David there. Parker's in the chat, says, hi, Vicky. Hi, fellas. Hey, David. [00:25:50] Speaker B: Hey, David. [00:25:51] Speaker C: And. And Hot Rod Custom Images says hi, Vicky. Hot Rod Custom Images. Who's. Who is Hot Rod Custom Images? I don't know who that is, but it's good to have you here. [00:26:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And we want to see some of your images. [00:26:06] Speaker C: Bruce says you should have a bright Purple step ladder with rhinestones. [00:26:09] Speaker A: I just, I'd have, like, I'd have fairy lights, actually. [00:26:12] Speaker C: Nice. Yeah. Just dazzling. Yep. Where to from here? Should we, should we go back to the start, Craig? [00:26:21] Speaker B: No, not yet. I'm not ready. Okay. I'm not ready to go that far back. Sorry, Vicki, let's. [00:26:26] Speaker A: You mentioned 70s with a romper room. [00:26:30] Speaker B: And I know we have already had a little, little jaunt down memory lane, but before we get to your, to your backstory, let's talk about what you're working on at the moment. Now, you mentioned that you're a. You, you work at the College of the Arts. We've got one of your. At least one of your students in the chat, so welcome. Make sure you like and subscribe. Mummy says so. But you, you, you studied at university. You got a, you got a bachelor's degree in education, Art and craft. Where did, where did that, where did that sort of decision then influence photography? When did the photography come into that whole kind of arc of your story? [00:27:12] Speaker A: A long time ago. Yeah. So I did a bachelor degree in education, which in short, is. I am a qualified art teacher, which often happens with photographers. I think I was listening to Jason Lau's interview and he was also an art teacher, which I think was. We teach together. Hi, Jason. Love, Jason. And I tell you what, the degree doesn't exist anymore. But it was amazing. And it was four years of immersive art, and so we studied all the different studios. So our first year was like ceramics and sculpture and graphic design photography. Like, we had like, I think 12 different studios that we would progressively experience over the time. And then we would start to specialize and each year we would drop certain number of practices. God, it was so amazing. So, yeah, I just continued photography all the way through and became very obsessed with it and very immersed and it was really amazing. And it was magic. Magic. And so I spent. I basically majored in photography and my minor was graphic design back in the day. [00:28:29] Speaker B: Nice. And so that, that, that degree is no longer available. There's no specific education degree. [00:28:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Victorian College of the Arts to this day has kind of progressively took over that degree and remodeled it. And so there was never the broad practice that it was then. It's now everything's very specific and. Which is. I'm kind of unfortunate because, you know, it's not one channel that you want to go down because I love all of it because I just, I want to get my hands dirty in all areas. So, like, we did life drawing for, through, you know, Four years or drawing and that was beautiful. But I really loved, you know, ceramics and I loved, you know, doing garment construction and, and metalsmith and all that, you know, woodwork. And I have to say, like, all of those different practices have really kind of culminated into who I am and what I can do and my passion for all the arts. And we obviously studied art history as well throughout the whole four years and it was, yeah, an incredible degree. So basically I walked out as a qualified art teacher and I never practiced, I never went into teaching at all at that stage. I was like, now I'm gonna, I'm going to, I'm gonna get a business name and that was it. And then I have been in business ever since. [00:29:51] Speaker C: Really? [00:29:52] Speaker A: Yes. [00:29:52] Speaker C: You've never, you've never had a, like a, just a nine to five just job in. [00:30:00] Speaker A: No, not, not in the, like in my, the broadness of my career. I didn't do it up until I did my. I had my first full time job probably about eight, nine years ago and I only lasted six months. [00:30:15] Speaker C: Really? [00:30:16] Speaker A: Oh, it was, yes, it was very challenging. [00:30:19] Speaker C: But what was, what was challenging about it? Tell me, tell me what was challenging about it? [00:30:24] Speaker A: The politics. Not the, not the. I learned so much and I love the experience. I met some great people but there was, it was just the hierarchical politics that I couldn't cope with. And I have to say, like, you know, when you've been a business owner for such a long time and you make those decisions and it was all very financial. It's actually, you know, just have. Because I had a studio at the time and I just thought, and I had two kids on my own and I was like, I have to make some really practical decisions now because longevity and security and everything, like that much to my heartache, I thought I have to actually pursue full time work. An opportunity came along in the, in the studio and I thought this is great. And you know, really loved their look and style and I learned a lot while I was there. So I'm very grateful for that. But yeah, just the hierarchical part of it just, I just thought, yeah, I can't do it because there was. Yeah, I just think people should be kind, that's all. Like there's no need to bully. [00:31:23] Speaker B: So yeah, it is a sad state of affairs. We see that a lot more and more and more online. [00:31:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:29] Speaker B: And even at leadership levels it's, it's quite, it's quite disheartening. [00:31:33] Speaker C: So, so this was a photographic studio. So do you think, do you think the right, potentially the Right place you would have, you would have fit, you know, so it's more, it was more about the people in the environment as opposed to like whether it's a job versus your own business or whatever. [00:31:48] Speaker A: Well, I think even like, they did want to take a lot out of you too. Like, I just think it was so impractical, some of the expectations as well. And that's where I was like, oh, this is actually, you know, diluting what I'm doing because, you know, it's a lot of. I put my heart and soul, as everyone does, into their craft and, you know, then it just, yeah, this is kind of push, push, stay back. And it's like, I can't, I've got two kids. Like, you know, this is just too much. [00:32:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:15] Speaker A: You know, I felt like having run a business, I literally resigned with nothing. So that's how confident I was. I could get up and running again. [00:32:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:27] Speaker B: Good place to be. [00:32:28] Speaker A: Yeah. I was always really savvy with saving as well. So I was good like that. I always have been. And so I decided I rang RMIT the next day and found out that they had a cert for in training and assessment. So I could then because I'd been doing some research about getting into education like in a tertiary level. And so I rang RMIT and there was a one spot left for the training and assessment the next day and I joined. [00:32:54] Speaker C: Wow. [00:32:55] Speaker A: Training and assessment. And then I ended up getting a job not long after at. Yeah, another college some time and actually part of that was full time for a while and that worked well. And then I got this amazing opportunity at Collarts I couldn't say no to. So I'm there now just, you know, a day and a half, a week, two days. [00:33:17] Speaker B: And how long have you been there? [00:33:20] Speaker A: Coming up to. They, they got me during COVID so I helped, I helped write the degree because it's a new bachelor degree in photography and I had the opportunity to write a couple of units which. Or three or four units, which I was. Was really different for me because I hadn't written or, you know, evolved to a unit. So that was quite exciting and I love doing that. And so now I reckon I started about 20, 21. Yeah. So four years. Yeah, I love it so much. Like, it's the best job. [00:33:52] Speaker B: What. That's a good place to land. [00:33:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And then I do all the stuff on this, you know, my professional work on the side. [00:33:59] Speaker C: Yeah, it just fits in around those, those couple of days a week. [00:34:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:04] Speaker C: So do you get to teach? Because I Do know that. And obviously I don't know what collates is like, but I know some other photography tertiary education doesn't include much on the business side of things. People kind of come out with this fantastic that they'll have art history, they'll have, you know, generally quite a lot of camera technique in studio, that kind of stuff. They'll get all that education but then potentially come out without sort of a. Okay, now you need to go make a living, go get started. Do you get to teach any of that sort of stuff there since you're done? [00:34:44] Speaker A: Yes. And much of the students, resistance, really. Yeah, because it's, you know, different part of their brains. They're not. They don't want to activate that part. So it's really, yeah, a little bit like it's really important. I. And we do, I think we call it entrepreneurship and they obviously do industry experience as well. But also because all the lecturers, all the, you know, the casual lectures are all professionally working people. They're constantly, constantly sharing, sharing over and above the curriculum. We're always, always talking about business. Like, I'm always talking about the business because I always say to them, like, as soon as you've got a camera, a lens and a reflector, you've got a business. Let me show you how to make that happen. And some do and have done incredible work with it, have just gone out and done headshots and others a little bit resistant. But I think, you know, they, it all comes together when they. It's constantly reinforced throughout the. The units and various lecturers as well, that kind of say, hey, you know, this is what I'm doing, I've done this job or whatever and, you know, this is the brief. Like sometimes I'll share their briefs. This is the brief. This is how we, you know, do an invoice template, all those sorts of things. So we do start to bring it into the fold and then they learn to write a business plan, do a profit and loss statement. They get to, you know, get an abn. So we do. Absolutely, absolutely. [00:36:08] Speaker B: That's good. And knowing Jason, Jason Lau, who's who we've interviewed here before, Jason, very business savvy, you know, loves talking about business, the business of running photography, you know. So, yeah, I have no doubt that he shows that. [00:36:29] Speaker A: We definitely do a business and it's. Oh, come on. [00:36:33] Speaker C: We'Ve got two, we've got two conflicting opinions here. Yeah, we definitely do a business subject and it's boring. And then we've got Lucinda Justin. It's a Core unit now for diploma photography, to do a business unit. And it's fab. I guess it depends on your outlook and what you're interested in, but I just think it's wonderful that you're doing that stuff with students that want to make a life through art. There needs to be a way to put food on the table at the end of that, unless it's purely a hobby. And that's different. Like, if you just, like, I'll go get a job doing this and this is just my. My hobby. But if you, if you want to make a life out of it, getting some skills, especially from experienced professionals like yourself and Jason, that's. That's invaluable. [00:37:20] Speaker B: Priceless. Yeah, it is. [00:37:22] Speaker C: Can you tell us. So how would we. How would we. How would I start a business today with a camera and a reflector and an avn? [00:37:31] Speaker A: Well, I just, I think. Well, you're already doing, like, weddings. I mean, you. I think weddings personally are the best thing to get into because everyone will always get married. So there's work there. Headshots. Simple headshots. [00:37:45] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:37:45] Speaker A: Like, you know, I always say at the college, we have an amazing kind of network of incredible students in different disciplines who are all needing photography. So what I often do is grab students from the, like, drama students to come in to pose for the photography students. And I said, you need to think beyond the act of just taking photo. You're actually building a new relationship with someone that you can travel through in the future. So you're planting seeds now and you're building relationships. Because photography is all about relationships. [00:38:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:38:19] Speaker A: And planting seeds and letting people know what you do and sharing your enthusiasm of how you can, you know, problem solve. I can do some really great, you know, I can do some portraits for you. I can capture, you know, behind the scenes of your, you know, drama production. Any, like, there's always. Everyone's a client. I was like, every single person is your client. Potentially. [00:38:41] Speaker C: Yeah, this is true. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Yeah. But with like, you know, reflector, that's all you need. You can just sort of, you know, persuade the light a little bit and, you know, just work in natural light. Understand the basics of how light works and, you know, natural light, that's a big part of. That's our first, like, foundation courses, lighting and camera craft and post production, they're like the three core foundations. And it's like, bring it back to the simplicity of understanding light. And once you've got that, you've got a business. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great way of looking at it, isn't it? [00:39:11] Speaker C: It's just. Do you approach it that way? Yeah, absolutely. Do you get into the marketing side at all? This is, this is a comment from the drunk wedding photographer over in California. [00:39:25] Speaker A: A great name. [00:39:26] Speaker C: Exactly. So marketing, branding, wrapped up there in one. He shoots weddings on film only. And he says you got. You get to do a bit of everything in weddings, which is true. So in terms of camera craft, like just, you're just into it, you're going to come out the other side of a few wedding seasons a far better photographer. But what about standing out as a new photographer or like sort of getting your name out there or branding or marketing, do you guys touch on that in. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Like, well, part of that entrepreneurship that, you know, they're talking about, you know, self promotion, like how you do that. And obviously the platforms allow us to do that these days. Like, imagine having that, like 30, 40 years ago we would have been rock stars, Greg. [00:40:11] Speaker C: Imagine. [00:40:12] Speaker B: Imagine. [00:40:12] Speaker A: Yeah. So, like, times have changed, haven't they? Hasn't it? And I think I'm a firm believer in getting in front of people as well, you know, not just lying on social media, but, you know, whether it's door knocking or, you know, finding opportunities in life to just sort of share what you do. And how can I get, you know, if you ever need any photography, this is my. Actually I've got a digital business card now, so. Okay, here's my. Yeah, hi, hello is the name of it and it's fantastic. And all you have to do is scan the code and all my details go in your phone straight away. And I do that a lot. [00:40:47] Speaker B: Wow, that's really cool. [00:40:48] Speaker A: Yes. I meet someone and just made, you know, just build a relationship. [00:40:52] Speaker B: Yep. [00:40:53] Speaker A: But obviously that's, you know, I'm an extrovert. That's fine for me, it's not fine for everyone else. And I understand that. So then, yeah, absolutely. You know, using your platforms and depending on, I guess on what age group you are, some will be more successful than others or more effective, obviously. So, you know, if it's corporate, you know, it should be LinkedIn. I'm giving myself my own advice here. You know, I should be posting more on LinkedIn. Whereas, you know, someone who's, you know, creative might not necessarily just rely on LinkedIn. They'd probably want to obviously do Instagram and Tick tock. Tickety talk. [00:41:26] Speaker B: Nice. [00:41:26] Speaker C: Oh, look, I've just found you on LinkedIn. This is. Let's see when you last posted. Let's check it out. No, no, okay. [00:41:34] Speaker A: That's okay. You can, of course, no, but my goal is to get back, you know, a bit More active on LinkedIn. [00:41:41] Speaker B: Is LinkedIn still a thing? Is it still. Is it still valuable? [00:41:45] Speaker A: Do you know LinkedIn when it first came out back in the 90s? And I can't believe I didn't sort of really sit with it and really cultivate it when I should have. [00:41:53] Speaker C: Yeah, it's always that way though, when you look back and you're like, dang, I should, I should have probably put some more work into that. [00:41:59] Speaker A: Yeah, it's okay. But you know, the funny thing is, I have to say I'm not that active on social media, but I still get work, you know, I've always got work. I've never not got work. And that is me finding opportunities in day to day life and seizing the day and. Yeah, lots of funny stories behind that one. [00:42:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Even so, Bruce is saying LinkedIn is stupidly big on corporate, so. So if you were, if you were based in Melbourne doing say, headshots or commercial video stuff or anything like that, LinkedIn you would put as number one like that, as in over Instagram and stuff like that. [00:42:37] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I reckon that's my opinion anyway. [00:42:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Interesting. I think that's the feel I get from it. I don't think it. It's like where I live, it. It's not as powerful in terms of. It's a. Just a smaller, smaller community or whatever. But I can imagine being down in Melbourne, like, or any capital, you know, major city or. Unless you travel for work, in which case it doesn't matter where you are. [00:43:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. [00:43:02] Speaker B: When I worked in corporate. I mean, granted that was quite some time ago now, but I mean, that was it. We had. [00:43:09] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:43:10] Speaker B: Yeah, we had, we had tablets. Stone tablets, not iPads. [00:43:13] Speaker C: That's right. [00:43:14] Speaker B: But Vicki remembers them. But actually in primary school, I remember winning a prize for the best lowercase R and I wrote it on a little individual chalkboard with a wooden frame. We all had one. That's how old I am. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Oh, what was R for? What did R stand for? Greg? [00:43:33] Speaker B: We just had to. We're just learning, you know, letter forms and I. And I did it and I won something. I can't remember what it was. [00:43:39] Speaker A: Cursive, Cursive writing. [00:43:41] Speaker B: But I felt very proud. Yeah, cursive, cursive writing for sure. I've lost my train of thought. [00:43:48] Speaker C: Well, Lucinda wants to know if your car was powered by your feet like in the Flintstones. [00:43:52] Speaker B: Oh, come on kiddo. That's not fair. [00:43:54] Speaker A: I reckon you should do that one, Lucinda. [00:43:58] Speaker B: Although I, my first car, I did have to jump start it quite a few times. [00:44:02] Speaker A: So what did you have? What was your car? [00:44:04] Speaker B: It was a Toyota Corona. [00:44:06] Speaker A: Oh, I was gonna say I had a Corolla. [00:44:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that was my second car and I remember I bought that off my, my girlfriend at the time, she was upgrading and I, she sold it to me for 500 bucks at Corolla and well, it just. Yeah, well, yeah, it had to jump start a lot of cars actually. Anyway, and then like I'd run out of petrol and I didn't have much money back when I was like, you know, 18 year old, still in high school and so I wouldn't travel far, I'd be close to home so I'd just pull over and walk home and when I, when I finally got some money, I'd go back and put some petrol in it. [00:44:39] Speaker C: It would just sit there for days. Future Greg's problem completely. [00:44:44] Speaker B: That's how I deal with everything now. [00:44:48] Speaker C: Now at Hot Rod Custom Images, who I believe I must have missed an email from because it says here. Check your email, Justin. Christine Carr is my name. Christine Carr says I use everything I learned from Vic's class in my business. That's awesome. [00:45:04] Speaker B: Nice. That's the last. [00:45:05] Speaker C: Dennis is here. [00:45:07] Speaker B: Hey, Den. Oh look, I've got my, I've got my special, my special cup which reminds me of Dennis from Beef Up. It's got a cock on it, see. [00:45:17] Speaker C: Oh yeah, that's right. [00:45:19] Speaker B: There he is. Hey, Jen. [00:45:24] Speaker C: Right, what are we talking about? So business marketing, branding for new photographers, students and things like that and just sort of. Do you recommend. So obviously weddings is one way to kind of focus on one thing but do a broad amount of photography outside of that. If someone has an interest in something as a student, do you encourage them to try and make a business around that? Let's say they're right into like theater or whatever. Are you like, all right, you should try and at least get the ball rolling with getting some paid gigs in that world. Or do you sort of encourage people to just tell everyone far and wide, hey, I'm a photographer, if you need anything done, I'll do anything. Or, or does it depend on the person? [00:46:09] Speaker A: Yeah, look, I think it depends on the personality. Like I've got one, one student who love, you know, music photography. So he's, you know, connecting. Actually Instagram has been amazing, like connecting not just with potential mentors and DMing mentors and just you know, you've got nothing to lose when you throw your net out. But also, like, DMing bands, venues, managers, and you just eventually get an opportunity and it's a cumulative interest. So it starts to build. Like, you start to post and all of a sudden you get more gigs and like, you've just got to never give up. I always say, never give up, because people give up too soon and they just go, oh, never. Nothing's happened yet. It's like everyone puts a time frame on it. Don't put a time frame on it. Like, keep the momentum, just keep at it. Because eventually it will happen. But you've got to be enthusiastic about and you've got to be proactive. There's no good just waiting. I think we tend to wait and go. No one's called or no one's picked up the phone or whatever. You've got to be really proactive. I remember actually there was a lovely student who was in class with Christine and he loved fashion photography. So he reached out to a fashion photographer and said, I'll come and assist you, you know, do anything you want. You know, he was really proactive and now he's killing it in the fashion scene. Like, it's just phenomenal. Saying his growth as an A photographer, like, his craft in lighting and directing and fashion, and in such a short time, really over, like, maybe five, six years, just been amazing. [00:47:46] Speaker B: So that leads me to a question. Just quickly, Vicki, you know, as an educator, but also as someone who has obviously gained a lot of experience and exposure as a photographer, do you often see a student, a new student, go, oh, I reckon you've got something special. I'm going to keep an eye on you. And then that turns out to be, you know, like, the story you've just shared. Have you developed an eye for picking students that are going to make it versus those that you think, oh, you're going to struggle with this, aren't you? [00:48:10] Speaker A: The ones that come to class. [00:48:14] Speaker C: Good. [00:48:14] Speaker B: Start, really good start. [00:48:16] Speaker A: No, I shouldn't say that because there's some students who don't know, come to class and blow me away. It's like, what, you know. [00:48:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Are they the true artists? Are they the ones where you, like, they just see things differently and you're like, I don't know where this comes from, but you're special. [00:48:31] Speaker A: But also. Yeah, wow, this is amazing. Look, I think everyone has something, so everyone's got something special and they're just trying to find that way. And no, I say you don't necessarily have to be amazing either. Like, I think we're so, you know, we compare ourselves so much. I know that's just typical human nature, but we all, we all have the right to enjoy this journey of creativity and photography no matter what. So allow yourself to be part of the process. Because it's the process that's the magic, not always the outcome. Like, you know, I say photography is a practice and it's not just producing photos. It's actually the beauty of the experience. It's meditative. It's like, amazing for your mental health. It's, it's so many, so much more. It allows you to meet people and engage with people and be part of a community. So we know it's more than just producing amazing images. Yeah, like part of that process. And yes, there are always going to be gems or people with a, you know, inclination to just do something beyond in every field of every practice at whatever it might be. And it's very exciting to see. But, you know, everyone has successes as well, regardless. And I love that, like, love the, you know, the moments where they, where they're just so proud of what they've done. And I just go, great. Like, that's so satisfying. [00:49:56] Speaker C: Nice. Yeah, I, I think Dennis picked up on this as well. It was like every, everyone has something special. And I, the way that you said that is like, that's a, that's a true teacher, mother educator and, and, and, you know, as opposed to someone that might be like, ah, well, yeah, you're gonna struggle with this kind of thing. It's, it's a different mindset. And I think that having that mindset of, like, everyone's got something special, we've just got to unearth what that is and then also maybe bolster up their, their weaknesses. Because you can't just ignore something if you, if you don't get the business side of it. You can't just be like, oh, don't worry about it. You gotta be like, look, look, you don't have to be a business expert, but you just need to know enough to be able to support your practice. [00:50:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. That's right. I mean, if you want to make, you know, we, I mean, how amazing would it be to make, you know, make a living out of what you love? Isn't that the ultimate job? [00:50:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:53] Speaker A: No, and, you know, I can show you that if you want it. But this certainly, no pressure, like, yeah, the knowledge is there. We've all got it. We, we all love to share it. So we can only be guiding Lights for, you know, our young ones coming through or people starting photography. We can be a guiding light. Sounds very. Doesn't it? [00:51:14] Speaker B: No, but it is, it is an excellent segue. Let's. Let's roll back the clocks a little bit further and, and discover what you were like as a student. Were you an arty student? Were you? I, I can't imagine that you were overly academic in terms of like, you know, you were going to go down the accountancy math path like my mum wanted me to. You know, what was it, what was, what was the early years like for you as, as a student? And when did art come into that? [00:51:38] Speaker A: Interesting. I actually went to Latrobes to study philosophy. [00:51:44] Speaker C: Really? [00:51:45] Speaker A: And cinema and art history and then I just hated it. Well, I didn't like. Well, I, I think I wasn't ready. Oceans. I hated it. And then I just went off and traveled. I thought I'm just gonna work really hard, save money and just, you know, escape Australia and just be. I'm a huge risk taker too, and just go and travel. And then I decided, actually when I got back from Europe after traveling, I decided to get into nursing. I applied for nursing because I didn't. I lost my way and I didn't know what to do. But I was always creative. Like I grew up alone and drew and painted and, you know, lived on a farm and all that sort of stuff. So I kind of immersed myself in my own fantasies. So I got, I didn't get into nursing. I think I would have been. [00:52:29] Speaker C: You would have been? Yeah. You've been a wonderful nurse. [00:52:31] Speaker B: Yeah, you're a great nurse. [00:52:33] Speaker A: Anyway, that said, I decided to quickly create a folio because I didn't nearly fail art in high school. I got 50 in HSC, so I was nearly. [00:52:44] Speaker C: Why do you think that was? [00:52:46] Speaker A: I actually think. And I. I don't know, disrespect to my teacher. I don't think I was guided and encouraged in the right way. I really do because I. Yeah, because I just. Yeah, I. It really hurt me because I tried so hard and it just. Yeah, I got 50 and that was my lowest mark. And yeah. [00:53:07] Speaker C: I was gonna say. So it's. That was your lowest mark. And was that probably. Was that the subject that you identified with the most as well? So it was like. Like as in you wouldn't have cared so much if you got 50% in maths or something like that because you'd. [00:53:19] Speaker A: Be like my highest. [00:53:26] Speaker B: It's interesting because, you know, you talked about not having that support or you didn't feel you had the right support from the educators around you. But. So we've got a comment here. So Vicky. Vicky definitely talks everyone up. She doesn't single anyone out. Everyone is valuable, and she simply matches your energy. And I think that's lovely to. To see that you've. You know, you're doing something different to how to your experience. You've learned from that and gone. You know what? No, that's not the educator I want to be. I want to be supportive. I want to make sure everyone has that guiding light that you mentioned earlier that they need. Yeah. [00:53:57] Speaker A: Now, what was the question again? [00:53:58] Speaker B: I don't know. What were you like as a student? I think we were there, but. [00:54:02] Speaker A: Yeah, all right. No, I tell you what. I had the best cohort ever. And you know this. I still have friends today from that. That era. And we just. It was like Fame, the movie. It was just. We were music and, hey, these were the days that teachers used to smoke in the classroom. [00:54:24] Speaker B: I remember I went to art school for a year after I finished high school because I decided that I wanted to do art of some sort. I didn't know what, and I didn't have a lot of guiding support either, but it was like living the fame dream. It was. You know, we would. We would disappear at lunchtime and. And we'd go smoke a joint somewhere, and then we'd come back to school and everyone would be buzzing and. And there'd be parties. [00:54:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:47] Speaker B: The teach. Did I have a beret? No, but I might have had a neck scarf. What do they call them again? Cravat. [00:54:54] Speaker A: For a little while, I had. I had virtually like. They're kind of like dreadlocks. I had all my. I had really long hair down to my waist, and I had. I had them all plaited, and I was kind of. Do you remember the Buffalo girl era? [00:55:12] Speaker B: Girls? [00:55:12] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a great era. So big skirts, like, really big skirts and then. And. And berets and. And then I'd have my dreadlocks and. Oh, my God, I had so much fun. And, you know, I was just. I was an okay student, but I just got better and better, like, with the right environment, encouragement from my peers, we. It was just art everywhere. So we're so inspired by each other and such incredible lecturers at the time were just phenomenal and, you know, just love the whole darkroom experience and. Yeah, I don't know, it was just magical. In fact, I was having a look through some of my. My archives talking about being a student and this was one of my first early portraits. I love that 6400 ISO film. I think it was real. Like, it's super, super, super grainy. [00:56:08] Speaker C: Wow. [00:56:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:09] Speaker A: And yeah, I was like, oh, I was just actually thinking about my early days. [00:56:13] Speaker B: Nice. What was that like for you digging that stuff up? Has it been a while since you've looked at it? [00:56:18] Speaker A: No, I started bringing it out recently actually thinking about how I could start to start to scan some of my work because I want to paint. Like it's. I kind of felt like I dismissed that time of my life. And then I thought I need to pay homage to the young me as a young artist and photographer and sort of celebrate that era because I don't think I did enough of that. So I've been sort of bringing things up and out and started. Like I hang things around the house a little bit, but like, you know, it's like show and tell, everyone. [00:56:48] Speaker B: We love show and tell. [00:56:50] Speaker A: My early days in Florence, when I studied there. [00:56:53] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:56:56] Speaker C: So I was. I was gonna ask when. So were you when you were traveling, you had a camera when you. When you first traveled before. [00:57:05] Speaker A: Before Mike? Yeah, I did actually. And I was. Yeah, look. I think I had a really nice eye and I didn't sort of. Even though during work experience in year 10, I actually did work with a photographer and a graphic designer in the city, which was quite ironic because I never sort of thought about doing photography, oddly enough. And then, yeah, I did. I've got some really great shots actually in my little point and shoot back in the day from my early travels in the that era. And then after college, like, this was all Italy was after I finished my degree after four year. Four years. And then I went to Italy and I went and learned Italian, actually. [00:57:44] Speaker C: Wow. [00:57:45] Speaker A: So I stayed in Florence for four months and I had this really amazing opportunity to work with a paper mache artist, like a sculptor painter. But he did a lot of. Create a lot of beautiful masks for carnivale. So I would do paper mache and I would. I couldn't even show you one. I would. Gold, you know, guilt that. And this was an angel. [00:58:17] Speaker B: Wow. [00:58:18] Speaker A: This is his. This is his sculpture. But I pressed it with special paper and I gilded it and did all the painting and. Isn't it beautiful? [00:58:30] Speaker B: That's amazing. [00:58:31] Speaker C: Easy. [00:58:33] Speaker A: No, it's nice to be able to do not just 2D, but get your hands dirty with 3D work as well. Yeah. [00:58:41] Speaker B: Do you still. Do you still dabble in other arts? [00:58:43] Speaker A: Not as much as I'd like. [00:58:45] Speaker C: To. [00:58:45] Speaker A: I would really love to do some painting. It was really funny. Like when I was studying I worked at the Hyatt as well. Like to earn income as a. You know, worked in the bar and cocktails and stuff like that. And because I did a lot of graphic design work they got me to do all their posters. So I was constantly hand drawing posters for years. So you know, have like specials or New Year's Eve and they would pay me to draw and it was great. [00:59:10] Speaker B: That's cool. [00:59:11] Speaker A: Yeah, I did. I think luckily I did photograph all that work so I have to find that. But yeah, I love to dabble in other areas. [00:59:19] Speaker B: Very cool. Just a quick comment from. From Dennis. My early days in Florence when I studied there. Vicky, can you be my teacher? I'll send the helicopter in a minute. [00:59:29] Speaker A: I'd love to. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Like I did some great. I had some great adventures in the early days and I sometimes sit with it and go wow, I can't believe I actually did like that. Like that's nuts. Some of the things I got up to, I was like wow, that was quite awesome. [00:59:46] Speaker C: It's important to look back and yeah, it can take time digging everything out and stuff like that. But I love how you say like pay a homage to that time or like dig it out and find a place to put it or remind you or whatever because I forget things so easily that I've done. [01:00:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:04] Speaker B: Quick question for you, Justin. Slightly off topic but. But Vicky did bring it up. What, what did you do for work experience? Where did you go? [01:00:12] Speaker C: I worked at the Bendigo Bank. We actually did a. I did. I worked there for four weeks over the summer break and did a, like a report on implementing chips into credit cards. Wow. Because they were magnet magnetic stripes only. [01:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:35] Speaker C: This was before the chip come into it. That's how old I am. And then another year I detailed cars. I shammied 300 cars in the morning with. With one or two other people helping and then in the afternoon I would detail them. So it was that. [01:00:55] Speaker A: What about you, Greg? [01:00:58] Speaker B: Well, as I mentioned earlier my, my journey into art was. Wasn't on my parents radar so they wanted. My mum wanted me to follow my brother's footsteps and he was really, really unimportant accountant and, and I, I was, I kind of went along with it until year 12 when I found my own voice. But I, I too worked in a bank. I worked in or back then what was the State bank of Victoria which no longer exists. That's how old I am. And I used to have a savings account with State bank of Victoria. Did you have one, Vicki? Every school in every. [01:01:31] Speaker A: Didn't every student get like a passport book? [01:01:34] Speaker B: You know, like a passport and a little money box of some sort every year? [01:01:38] Speaker A: That was the best bit. [01:01:39] Speaker B: Yeah, the piggy banks. [01:01:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:40] Speaker C: Got to get them early. Apparently that's illegal now. Oh, yeah, that. The, the Commonwealth Bank Dolomites account. [01:01:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:48] Speaker C: They were giving kids. Like you can't just bring kids into your banking system as customers. Yeah, just get them early. [01:01:57] Speaker A: That's it. [01:01:58] Speaker B: But yeah, I did that. I did that for one week and I counted change and that was about it. Even though they had a machine, I don't think they actually had anything for me to do because I couldn't touch real money. I couldn't touch notes, I couldn't touch checks, but I could count some change. So I'm sure that was just a let's keep the kid busy kind of routine. The second week I spent at, I think it was the Australian Wildlife. It was like a government organization. It was an ngo. No, no, it was a government organization, but it was a. Not for profit. And they, they had like park rangers coming into the office. It was to do with accounting and bookkeeping and stuff again. But often they'd come in and they'd bring animals that they'd rescued, like snakes and, and wombats and stuff. And I'd get to hang out with the animals every now and then. That was kind of the highlight of my work experience. Clearly I learned nothing or no, I did learn. So I didn't want to be an accountant. So I learned that very quickly. [01:02:47] Speaker C: I was going to say I should add on the learnings that I got from those two jobs that I did because I was like, I told you what I did, but I didn't really say what the outcome was. Banks are boring as fudge car yards as much as I didn't. It's like it wasn't. I've done. I've worked at car yards longer term than that in my adult life. It's not super fulfilling work for me personally, but the environment is tons of fun. And if I, if I needed a job, a good car, I think a bad K.O. could be horrible. Absolutely. Like the wrong leadership and the wrong incentives and how they deal with customers and all that stuff could be terrible. But a good kard where they love the customers, the customers love them, everyone's having a fun time was a great environment. So, like, washing cars at a car yard was far More fun than. [01:03:47] Speaker A: And did you find money? Did you find little coins and things in the like, seats? [01:03:52] Speaker C: So they, they used to. There was a little bit of controversy around that. What was the deal there? I think someone ended up getting in trouble because. So, so yes. Detailing. If you're detailing, like a traded in car. Yeah. You find some money out of the seats. I think we used to have just a tin that you just threw it in and then they'd buy beers with it or whatever every now and then. But there was someone who was pinching money out of service, you know, people's cars that were getting serviced and not much like $2 here or there or whatever, but it's like, that's people's stuff, man. Like you're. Yeah, yeah. That's like instant dismissal shit. Like you're stealing people's stuff out of their car. They. They trust you when they drop it off, that they don't have to lock it all up in a lockbox. So that was pretty bad. I remember that wasn't while I was there, but it was soon enough after that I heard about it and got told the story and I was like, wow, that's crazy. So. [01:04:42] Speaker B: So what did you learn from washing cars? Working at the. [01:04:46] Speaker C: Don't steal people's change out of their cars. Important. [01:04:50] Speaker B: As a wedding photographer. [01:04:53] Speaker C: What did I learn? That. Yeah, that a fun environment. I learned a lot about how to work with people. So there was a big difference in the way that people were treated. The managers, there was one that would come out and shammy cars with us in the morning, even for like five minutes most days. And that person went very far in that business to the point they own part of the business now. You know what I mean? Yeah. [01:05:26] Speaker B: The right attitude. [01:05:27] Speaker C: Yeah, they, they. Yeah. And they also, I think they just enjoyed it. They were like, why wouldn't I go outside for 10 or 15 minutes and just hand me some cast in the morning? Like I got time. But the way that they worked in different departments and hung out with people and didn't just treat them like, you know, oh, you guys just wash the cars. I don't need to care about that as long as you get your job done. So, yeah, I learned, I observed a lot about the way people work together and leadership and all that sort of stuff. [01:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:59] Speaker A: Don't you reckon we're like a package of experiences? Like often, you know, I'm thinking about my students and it's like I always say, like, everything that you've done today is always valuable because. [01:06:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:10] Speaker A: You know, Sometimes I kind of dismiss what they've done. And I was like, I tell you, there's things in your life that you've done that are going to be so valuable that like, like you just said, Justin will package up your ability to talk to people, you know, create a rapport. Maybe it's even, I don't know, like, you know, some of the students are really great doing makeup. It's like you don't know how valuable that skill is and how you can. Yeah, that then becomes your point of difference. And they go, well, what's my point of difference? Like, I look at all the stuff that you've done. This, like, don't just look at it in a very linear kind of tunnel vision way. Embrace everything that you've done. Because that's your point of difference. [01:06:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Yes. [01:06:48] Speaker B: Because you're unique and you need to. You need to sort of stand out in a. Especially in a noisy market. You know, you need to stand out and show your point of difference and let people know how you're unique. And I think, you know, for me, like, a lot of the jobs I've. I've worked in corporate. I worked in corporate for quite a long time, and now that I work for myself, you know, I realized a lot of the things that corporate taught me was more about the sort of person I didn't want to be. [01:07:12] Speaker A: Yeah, that's good. [01:07:14] Speaker B: About the sort of job I didn't want to do. And about. And also just, you know, about where my boundaries are, you know, and, and the thought of going back to even. Even. Not even not a corporate gig, but not working for myself anymore. I mean, it's hard enough working for Justin, but he's a terrible boss, by the way, that whole beef up thing, I didn't even want to go. I woke up, I've been drugged. I woke up in the back of his van. We're already on the way. [01:07:39] Speaker C: I was like, come on, Greg, it's morning podcast time. Get out of bed. [01:07:42] Speaker A: Come on. [01:07:43] Speaker B: Can you unlock my chain? But, but yeah, I think, you know, there's also, there's also huge value in understanding what you don't want to do and who you don't want to be, you know, and taking stock of that and then flipping it to who you do want to be in life. But, yeah, I couldn't go back to working for someone else in that sort of environment. [01:08:02] Speaker C: I just. [01:08:03] Speaker B: I think I would probably commit some sort of horrendous crime. Climb a bell tower or something. Anyway, let's move on from that therapy. [01:08:13] Speaker C: I've got a fun. I've got a fun segue into more Vicky stuff. So I did some research on you, Vicki, as I do with most guests. I went onto YouTube to be like, I wonder what YouTube content there is of Vicki. [01:08:31] Speaker A: Is there any. [01:08:33] Speaker C: There's not much. There is now, but there's been a. [01:08:38] Speaker B: Whole day on this. [01:08:39] Speaker C: This is what I found. Do you. Do you know what this is? [01:08:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I've got it here. [01:08:46] Speaker C: You've got the actual finished photo. [01:08:48] Speaker A: Do you want me to bring it up? [01:08:49] Speaker B: Well, please. [01:08:50] Speaker C: Do you reckon I could find it on the Internet? Because I can bring it up on the screen. But I was like, I don't know where I'd find that. The finish. [01:08:56] Speaker A: Ernie Hewitt in Perth photographed me in Tasmania. It's actually really funny. [01:09:02] Speaker C: Do you want me to play a little bit of it? [01:09:03] Speaker A: Yeah, go on. It's hilarious. [01:09:05] Speaker C: We'll just do a little bit. [01:09:09] Speaker A: So the other. [01:09:10] Speaker C: A bit more. [01:09:12] Speaker A: Here it comes. [01:09:18] Speaker C: That one missed that again. [01:09:19] Speaker B: But I want it on her face. You missed it. [01:09:30] Speaker C: Nice. [01:09:35] Speaker A: Tasmania during the Nikon event. Actually, it was a wonderful. What year was that? Has it got it written there? [01:09:41] Speaker C: It doesn't. So that was. It says 12 years ago that this video went up. Oh, hang on. 2013 in Hobart. [01:09:51] Speaker A: It's a great photo, actually. [01:09:53] Speaker C: Raised $7,000 for prostate cancer at the AIPP Nikon event in 2013 in Hobart. So. Yeah, let's get another. Let's get another look at this. [01:10:02] Speaker A: Here we go. [01:10:04] Speaker C: Hang on. [01:10:07] Speaker B: Oh, there it is. [01:10:10] Speaker C: I just. Hang on, let me. I'll switch this around. I'll bring you up big. That one. [01:10:15] Speaker B: No, that's me. [01:10:16] Speaker C: There we go. There we go. Oh, look at it. [01:10:19] Speaker B: That's great. I love the boots. The boots are my favorite. [01:10:21] Speaker A: Yeah, we. We asked a fisherman if we could borrow them for the sheep. [01:10:26] Speaker C: Really? So was it as cold? [01:10:29] Speaker A: It was the best. One of the highlights of my life. It was amazing fun. [01:10:34] Speaker B: Tell us about it, please. [01:10:35] Speaker A: Yeah, so during Nikon, used to do an event every year. It was called the Nikon Event. It was phenomenal. And obviously it was just, you know, photographers from all around Australia and the world would come together and there'd be these amazing conferences, beautiful evening events, etc. And one year they started, you know, auctioning off, or they started to auction off a particular print. And then I'd made a sort of suggestion, you know, wouldn't it be great if. Oh, no, maybe that wasn't that event, you know, just to auction off for a charity. And so there'd Be a surprise every year. Like you wouldn't know if who the photographer was or. No, you knew the photographer but you didn't know who the subject was. So this was a big surprise. No one knew it was all happening. So it was shot and printed all within, I think, 24 hours. [01:11:30] Speaker B: Wow. [01:11:31] Speaker A: Then auctioned up. Yeah. So Tony Hewitt approached me and he's an incredible landscape photographer in wa. And photographer, full stop. And he was a big part of the aipp, an amazing man. And he approached me, said, oh, you know, do you mind if I photograph you for the auction? A support, surprise auction. I said, yeah, absolutely. Had no idea. And then he said, oh, you know, I just wanna. I like this idea of you being, you know, we're in Hobart, you know, at the port there. And he goes, I want to throw some water over you like a big waves coming. And so he did. And it was so much fun. No one knew about it until the next day. And it was amazing. So, yeah, it got auctioned and the money, the idea is money would be raised for a cause and that was quite lovely that that happened. So I'm lucky enough to get one of the prints. It's funny, actually, I've had a few photographers over the years sort of photograph me and they're all so very different and I kind of love their interpretation. So lots of fun. Yeah, great, great time. [01:12:32] Speaker C: I love it. So Bruce just said, you need to have Tony on. [01:12:37] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, he's amazing. Yeah, lovely. [01:12:39] Speaker C: And I just went to put it onto our guest. Guest, you know, try and get them on list. And it's already on there. [01:12:47] Speaker B: Did you put it there then? [01:12:48] Speaker C: Look how fast you are. That's amazing. [01:12:51] Speaker B: That's why you pay me the big bucks, boss. [01:12:52] Speaker C: That's right. So we've got a big list going on, but if anyone else has any recommendations we should try and get on, hit us up. [01:13:00] Speaker B: Yeah, let us know. [01:13:01] Speaker C: We're planning to see a big, big, big 20, 26. [01:13:04] Speaker A: Amazing. [01:13:05] Speaker B: And while we're on that, it's probably a good time and opportunity, if you'll forgive us, Vicky, just for a little ad ready, just to remind everybody that please give us a like on this episode because it helps us out a bunch and it lets other folk know on YouTube that we exist. And you know, if you, if you plan on sticking around, maybe consider subscribing. Hit the bell icon so you get notified of all of our episodes. We go live twice a week. Every podcast is live every Thursday morning, 9am with an amazing guest, as we have here today. With Vicki Bell. And then every Monday evening at 7:30pm and this is in Australian Eastern Daylight Time at the moment, we have the random photography show where we, we just talk about the craft, we talk about gear, we chat to people in. In the live chat, we review your photos. You can even send in your photos to justinuckystraps.com. [01:13:53] Speaker C: And by review we really just pick. Pull them up and they're like, oh, that's cool. Yeah, we probably need to do. We need to do some like judge training or something or I don't know. [01:14:01] Speaker B: Now we'll get Matt Palmer on. [01:14:03] Speaker C: Well, we need to go to art school maybe. [01:14:05] Speaker B: Oh, well, yeah, Vicki, we can help you there. [01:14:08] Speaker A: There's. You've got Matt, you've got Bruce, you've got me. [01:14:11] Speaker C: That's what we need. Wonder if we just live stream an episode where they teach us how to look at a photo. [01:14:18] Speaker A: Get Harriet back in. [01:14:20] Speaker C: Yeah, actually, yeah, we should just do that. [01:14:23] Speaker B: Quite a cast of characters there. [01:14:25] Speaker C: I love that. But it's us learning how to do it because. [01:14:31] Speaker A: Grid. And then we can, you know, think about how we, you know, how do we, you know, process images, how do we respond to images, what language we use, what do we look at? All that stuff. [01:14:43] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay, so a mega. Your images episode where it's all just images. [01:14:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:50] Speaker C: With a panel and then professional photography judges. Yeah. And through that panel, Greg and I will learn more. Everyone can learn. [01:15:00] Speaker B: No, we don't care about that. It's all about us. We only run this podcast to build our own knowledge base and, and, you know, self gratification. So we don't do it for anyone. We're not, we're not community minded here, Vicky. [01:15:10] Speaker A: I could tell. [01:15:11] Speaker B: Not at all, not at all. [01:15:14] Speaker C: Your images episode with a panel. [01:15:17] Speaker A: I'm feeding you guys, huh? [01:15:18] Speaker B: I know, I know. [01:15:23] Speaker A: There you go. [01:15:25] Speaker B: Dennis says this is an actual brilliant idea. An actual brilliant idea. How does a teacher assess whether an image is good? Like an epic crit. [01:15:34] Speaker C: Watch the cheese. I like it. And Christine says roast my picks. [01:15:43] Speaker A: Love that. [01:15:44] Speaker B: But yeah, but please like and subscribe. And just a reminder that today's episode and every episode of the Camera Life podcast is proudly brought to you by Lucky Straps. We make amazing handmade leather camera straps right in. Right in Bendigo, Victoria. And we'll ship them to anywhere. Pretty much. [01:16:00] Speaker C: Yeah, pretty much. Almost anywhere. Almost not Russia at the moment. It's difficult. So no, sorry. [01:16:07] Speaker B: And the International Space Station. Sorry, guys, but yeah, can't do that either. Not now. [01:16:11] Speaker C: Actually, I could talk to the SpaceX people. The shipping will be expensive. Yeah. [01:16:17] Speaker B: Just to say the least, the straps are free, but shipping is going to. [01:16:20] Speaker C: Kill you a lot. Okay, so that's a great idea. Now the rest of the show, I. [01:16:29] Speaker A: Was going to ask you how. How long have you had your business for your lucky strap? [01:16:35] Speaker C: 11 years. Over 11 years now. [01:16:37] Speaker A: Congratulations. [01:16:39] Speaker C: Established in 2014 and I think the idea germinated in about early 2013. So it was a bit over a year before it. [01:16:46] Speaker B: But at first it was going to be leather underwear. [01:16:49] Speaker C: Well, that. Before that it wasn't going to be leather under. It actually was going to be underwear. [01:16:53] Speaker B: Before that you told me it was going to be leather underwear. And you've even got something. [01:16:56] Speaker C: We didn't need to know that leather underwear. [01:16:59] Speaker B: We didn't. [01:16:59] Speaker C: It's going to be. It was going to be men's underwear. [01:17:04] Speaker B: It was called, like, where did the leather come into it? And the strap on bit. [01:17:07] Speaker A: Oh, there it is. [01:17:10] Speaker B: That's what, that's what Sash keeps asking me. Why does it call it lucky strap ons? [01:17:14] Speaker C: When it got pivoted to camera straps, leather was the obvious choice because it's the most durable, comfortable material that you can make camera straps out of. If anyone tells you different, they're lying to sell a cheaper product. Which is fine. No judgment on cheaper products. I love cheaper products. But we chose leather for our reasons. Anyway, where was I going with that? [01:17:35] Speaker A: Back on Tusk. [01:17:36] Speaker B: Sorry? [01:17:37] Speaker C: Yeah, back on Tusk. [01:17:38] Speaker B: Around us. You did. [01:17:41] Speaker C: I had a thing. We're gonna go somewhere. Oh, that's right. Yes. What's your, like, what's your genre of choice these days? Like what, when it comes to photography? Like what, what is your thing? [01:17:56] Speaker A: What am I photographing these days? [01:17:58] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:17:59] Speaker A: I've gone into the corporate world. [01:18:02] Speaker C: Okay. [01:18:03] Speaker B: And how's that treatment? [01:18:05] Speaker C: Yeah, well, what I mean by is more like. Is that what lights you up at the moment or is this any kind of like personal projects or different styles that are sort of calling to you that you've been experimenting with? [01:18:17] Speaker A: I feel like I experiment more with my students actually. It's kind of a really great environment for me to, you know, dabble and learn because they got their finger on the pulse and all sorts of really cool things. So I sort of learn from them, which I love. So, you know, I tend to photograph a lot of, you know, students and for class activities and have a, have a go with some of Bruce Moyle's techniques that I've been applying, like a bit of movement and blur and get kind of Creating all of that. I recently bought a optical light. So I've just been enjoying that sort of, you know, filtering and texturing backgrounds with different gobos, which has been exciting. Like, I need to do. Find time for what. [01:19:03] Speaker B: What would they go. But what I missed what you said. [01:19:05] Speaker C: Yeah, break that down for us. All of that, like, optical light backgrounds. Gobo. What. What are we talking about? [01:19:12] Speaker A: All right. So it's a light modifier that goes over my life. So I've got a profoto outfit. And so it is almost like a. It's got a lens on it. So it's kind of like a spotlight, like a projector. Like sort of really strong shadows. Very. Yeah. Really direct lighting. So you can put some stencils between the lens and the light and you can get these beautiful effects such as, you know, window kind of. Kind of a window shadow or maybe some foliage. It can be a love star. It can be all sorts of really nice things. So rather than just shooting in a flat background, like you've got a gray background, nice and flat back, you can actually just add a bit of dimension to it with some shadowing and template. It's fantastic. So much fun. [01:20:04] Speaker B: Lucinda's just said in the chat that she loves my optical snoot. It is so great. And then followed up with Justin, there's the Lindsay Adler one that goes on the Godox system. [01:20:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Lindsay Adler's produced Go Between Go by. [01:20:22] Speaker B: Oh, there you go. I'd never heard of that before. [01:20:26] Speaker C: Sense. I know that. That's why we have Bruce in the chat. Yeah. [01:20:32] Speaker B: But it is delightful. Every episode we learn something new. [01:20:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:36] Speaker B: About this craft. [01:20:38] Speaker A: Optical light. [01:20:39] Speaker B: There you go. KL is the stockist. Listen to things. [01:20:43] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Right. [01:20:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Westcott Go Docs attachment for LA series. I can't. Optical Spot by Lindsay Adler. It's a Westcott thing. [01:20:54] Speaker A: Right. You can add some shells as well. Yeah. It's just a way of just texturing light, adding a bit of dimension to it. [01:21:04] Speaker B: Oh, we're getting lots of comments about this. [01:21:07] Speaker C: Let's check it out. [01:21:08] Speaker A: All right. [01:21:09] Speaker B: Okay. [01:21:11] Speaker C: So what's that? [01:21:13] Speaker B: Right. [01:21:13] Speaker C: So we can buy color gels or these background. I just want to see examples. That's what I want to say. Okay. [01:21:21] Speaker A: Go to even, like, go to Lindsay Adler's site. You'll see lots of beautiful ways of playing in it and abstracting light. [01:21:30] Speaker C: Interesting. So because of the. How variable these are, I assume, like, you need to be very controlled in terms of being able to position the model in the right spot and all that sort of stuff. [01:21:44] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. If you look at what Lindsay Adler does. Yeah. You can really see how. Yeah. Just some really beautiful work. [01:21:52] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [01:21:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:54] Speaker A: Multiple lights. It's even better, but. Oh, my light just left me. [01:22:02] Speaker C: Should we add Lindsay Adler to the list? How hard you reckon we to get her on the podcast? [01:22:07] Speaker A: I just. Just try. She's. She's been in Melbourne. Just come out to Melbourne. [01:22:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:22:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Fabulous. Anything that will promote her work. But she's really a lovely lady and quite approachable, so there's no harm in trying. [01:22:23] Speaker C: Wow. [01:22:24] Speaker A: Isn't that beautiful? [01:22:26] Speaker C: So. [01:22:30] Speaker B: So. [01:22:33] Speaker C: Like this stuff wouldn't be. I mean, obviously there's editing happening here for sure, but. But it's. But a lot of it's happening in camera. It's not like it's, you know, like it's not like this isn't just been. Just photoshopped. [01:22:45] Speaker A: No camera. Yeah. [01:22:48] Speaker C: Wow. [01:22:48] Speaker A: Splurge of movement. [01:22:51] Speaker B: That reminds me of that workshop we sat in on last year at BFOP where Dennis was lit up with all of where Kim and photographed him. Yeah, it reminds me of that. That sort of application. [01:23:05] Speaker A: Isn't it great? [01:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, wow. That's awesome. [01:23:12] Speaker A: I know. [01:23:13] Speaker C: Interesting. I'm flying through them pretty quick just because I just wanted to get a bit of a broad idea of what's possible. [01:23:19] Speaker A: But colors, shapes, multiple coloring, it's gorgeous. [01:23:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:23:27] Speaker B: And her work is beautiful because she's also using texturing and. And face and body paint and hair and makeup and stuff. And it's all just coming together, isn't it? [01:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:39] Speaker A: You know, have a goal and be able to kind of problem solve and kind of dissect where the light's coming from. And that in itself is a great activity. Just trying to work it out and. [01:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:51] Speaker A: Yeah. There's so much cool, fun tools to play with. [01:23:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:23:59] Speaker B: Just a couple of quick comments I'll jump to while you're looking through those. Justin. Creative shots. Sorry. Creative shoots are the best. Vicki and I have done some great class shoots. I'm not even in Vicki's class at the moment, but I always find myself in there. Anyway. [01:24:12] Speaker A: Crashes living the dream. [01:24:15] Speaker B: And who's this? I can't remember who this was. A question for Vicky. Have you ever thought about working as a mentor or doing any master classes? [01:24:25] Speaker A: I will. You're on. You're totally on it. So next year I'm hoping to get the ball rolling with that because I've actually got a opportunity to work at a space that's going to be really exciting. So Friends opened a fantastic Acting studio called yes. So yas, and it's in Kensington, which isn't too far from me. And I'm hoping to use that space. Space during the day to do kind of master classes or curate classes according to people's needs. Because I. I love teaching and I feel like there's so much, you know, opportunity in my diary to be able to do some really focused workshops or mentoring sessions, so. Absolutely. [01:25:02] Speaker B: Nice. And of course, you were. [01:25:04] Speaker C: You were. [01:25:04] Speaker B: You were a workshop instructor at BFOP this year. This wasn't your. Your first bfop, was it? [01:25:09] Speaker A: The first one I did was online, actually. So that was in. I think. I don't know, Dennis might know, 2020 or 2021. Nikon had invited me. Julie Nikon invited me to come on board that year. So it was all. It was a great challenge, but, my God, it was so successful. Considering it was online, I couldn't believe how fantastic it was. And so. And then the next year was also online and that was a bit of fun. So, yeah, I've been. I know, four, five, five years maybe. [01:25:39] Speaker B: And how did the most recent one. I mean, Justin and I have only been twice, and granted the first time we were just freeloaders, you know, floating around, doing workshops, doing whatever we please, living this time around. This time around in 2025, we were obviously so busy with the Lucky Straps space and running the podcast. But for you, what was beef up 2025 like compared to previous years? Interesting years. [01:26:04] Speaker A: Yeah, every. Every year's great. And every year we try, you know, try and mix up the workshop slightly, but I don't know, it's so much energy and it's quite tiring after a while, but because of all the, you know, running around like an old cow, that didn't help as well. But, yeah, it. Look, I think I just get a real buzz out of being able to share and inspire, like, you know, different generations especially. I love the inclusivity of it more than anything. That's what I really love. It's like, this is amazing, you know, just the diversity of people, whether they're enthusiasts or retirees. And I just love. Yeah, just seeing them go, oh, my God, I just got it. Oh, this is such a great technique. I'm gonna use it or. Thank you. You know, just. Yeah, everyone's so appreciative. It's a lovely. Yeah, it's just lovely exploring. Bright is stunning, as we all know. [01:26:59] Speaker B: And bring an image up on. On screen. Justin, can you remove your image from screen, please? [01:27:05] Speaker C: Done. [01:27:06] Speaker B: Thank you, sir. Here is. Here Is your good self. Were you the only one with another? [01:27:16] Speaker A: Yeah, that was me because I'm the mother. Actually, there's a couple of us are mothers. Oh, my God. We just love getting kooky. [01:27:26] Speaker B: It was kooky. [01:27:27] Speaker C: It was fun. [01:27:29] Speaker A: So these are my sis togs. And then, you know, we go. We actually go away every year, you know, five, six of us, whatever, and we hire a house somewhere and we just talk and drink and eat and walk and photograph and share ideas and inspire each other. We cry together, we laugh together. And it is just the beauty of photography and the community that we've, you know, that we have access. [01:27:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Beautiful sisterhood of the traveling togs. [01:28:00] Speaker A: Yeah, the traveling cows. [01:28:03] Speaker C: I think making time for a weekend away like that with people that are not just friends, but also in your industry, I think that's pretty valuable. That's. That's awesome. [01:28:14] Speaker A: Divine. And I think this is the magic of what we do. And, you know, it's not just photography as we know. It's more than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's gorgeous. And I met all the ladies, like, you know, through the aipp, the Australian Institute of Professional Photography, a long time ago when I first started out. And, you know, very isolating when you're on your own starting a business. Certainly in the early days. And then, yeah, I think I sort of traveled sort of solo for such a long time, and then I didn't sort of join the AIPP till, like, early sort of 2000s, I think. And, yeah, I was like, wow, there's this whole community and I can make friends and all my bestie friends are from, you know, those days. [01:28:59] Speaker C: Yep. [01:29:00] Speaker B: Yeah, that's lovely. [01:29:01] Speaker C: Do you know much about AIPP 2.0, the resurrection? [01:29:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm kind of curious to get involved more so for my students and helping them sort of provide opportunities and mentors and inspiration for them. So I think if there's kind of a student, you know, representative or student opportunities, I definitely want to be part of it in that regard. So, yeah, Louise Sedgman's part of the team there, so. [01:29:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll go and check out the Christmas party and say hi to people I haven't seen for a long time. And I. I know I wish them well. And, you know, I think we still need a bit more of a community there. Yeah. To bring us all together again, like a bit of reunion and then hopefully open that door for the new next generation or the current generation to come. Part of it. Because I tell you what, when it was great. It was amazing. Back in the day, it was incredible. [01:30:04] Speaker C: I was a member. I was a member of. Because I thought it would be useful to have the logo on my website. And I never entered a competition or went to any events and. I regret that now. What's that? [01:30:28] Speaker A: We could have party together. I know. [01:30:31] Speaker C: I didn't realize that it would be fun. I just thought it was like an industry event. I just thought it was. It was going to be like. And also I was. The problem is because you said this before, like, you. You don't have to be an amazing photographer to be a photographer. I wasn't an amazing photographer. I was a. An average photographer that put a lot of work into one, trying to get better, but two, doing good work for clients and being able to make a business out of it. So I always kind of thought that, like, it's not really. I liked. I liked watching some of the. The great photographers that were part of the AIPP and trying to learn from them through the Internet. But I was like, I don't. I'm not going to really fit into that world. I'm not an. I'm not an artist. [01:31:20] Speaker A: Into our own heads. Don't we. And we kind of, you know, change that dialogue. And I think there's a lot of opportunities that get missed because everyone's not informed or not just saying yes and just, Just having a go. Making the decision once you're in and be part of it. Because, you know, sometimes you'll get so many people in your ear about this and that and kind of pushed and pulled. It's like, you know what? Just do it. Life's too short, you know, don't. [01:31:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:31:44] Speaker A: Is my mantra. [01:31:46] Speaker C: Seize the day. I like it. [01:31:49] Speaker A: It's very Caesar. [01:31:52] Speaker B: It's very Dead Poet society too. [01:31:55] Speaker A: Yeah. But I just think it was. It's because we have a perception and maybe that perception is really misled a little bit. And it's like, well, why don't you just try it before you decide and. And be part of that? Because there was so many great people that helped me when I needed help. You know, if it was, you know, technical knowledge or, you know, failing equipment or an opportunity to go and assist, like I was assisting photographers well into my career. Absolutely. Would always like, can I come out? Can I come and play? You know, go and assist other wedding photographers and other businesses or collaborate and just say, oh, you know, I'm happy to assist you. And I still say that to people like, you know, I'm not after a dollar, like I, I learn from others all the time. [01:32:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:32:39] Speaker A: And it allows that. It allowed me those opportunities and. Yeah. Just beautiful friendships that I just hold dear. Like that's, that was the magic for me and still is. [01:32:51] Speaker C: Yep. [01:32:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And those people become your community. Like you said, when you need help, when, when things go wrong, when you need advice or guidance, you know, that's, that's where that community comes in. [01:33:02] Speaker A: That's right. Especially like a lot of independent business owners too, or practitioners felt very isolated. Especially you know, pre Internet or when it was, you know, when we had those opportunities and so we would like physically meet up and you know, have coffee, catch ups or whatever. Yeah. There'd be workshops and yeah, it was great. We're just like, you know, professional development all the time. [01:33:28] Speaker B: Yep. [01:33:28] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Bruce says the best thing about the IOPP was the connections. Everything else was whatever you made it. I won't. I wouldn't know all these amazing photographers without it. [01:33:38] Speaker A: That's right. [01:33:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:41] Speaker C: Well. And so this is interesting. I wouldn't know all of you amazing photographers without this podcast. I think it's. We've stumbled across the ultimate cheat code. We can basically get a two hour, two hour FaceTime mentorship call with anyone we want as long as we stream it live to the Internet. They're like, yeah, I'll come on. I'm like, really? [01:34:03] Speaker A: It's been really listening to it in the car. Like, you know, when I'm doing some going to work, I'll listen to the podcast and pick it up. [01:34:10] Speaker C: Awesome. [01:34:11] Speaker A: Another half hour later or an hour later, pick it up again. It's like, oh, this is really interesting. And I'll go look at their website and go, so much amazing work out there. [01:34:18] Speaker C: Everyone's so, you know, I think that's the thing is that the further we get into it, the more you realize like how many people there are out there kind of flying under the radar doing amazing cool things. And obviously they've got their own, you know, fan bases or, or, or, or even close circles following like yourself. You've got all your students, all of your network, everyone you know from the aipp. There's so many people that know who you are, but there's also a whole big world out there that doesn't know who you are. And it's like there's so many of those photographers around. Yeah. That also I'm a big YouTube person. I've watched lots of stuff on YouTube, lots of photography content, education content and stuff. But most, the vast majority of great photographers don't have time to make YouTube videos about what they know or whatever to teach people. Most don't. So it's like, if we can, we can grab them and extract a couple of hours of their knowledge on here. Yeah, like it's. Yeah, it's. It's awesome. [01:35:20] Speaker B: It's all shared and it's also celebrating that, you know, we recognize that this took effort to get to this point. You know, you've done some great things and we've taken notice and we want other people to take notice. And I think there's a real. That's a big part of what I love about this role that we have, is that we get to support people and open other people's eyes to just how big that community is and all the diversity that it offers and all the opportunity that exists. I want to flip the conversation a little. I want to talk about gear. So you've mentioned a couple of. You dropped a couple of nuggets along the way about Nikon and Julie and you know, in the beef up circles, Julie is notoriously famous, loved and revered for everything that she's brought to be industry icon. She's a machine is what she is. I mean, I've never seen someone party, someone so, so compact, party so hard and have such a big personality and aura. It's. It's quite beautiful to watch. Let's talk more about your gear, though. What, what are you shooting with these days? [01:36:28] Speaker A: Well, you know, I've always said to Nick on I really want to, you know, have a T shirt made, but I don't know if they want. They'll allow me, but it was always Nikon or Nikoff. [01:36:37] Speaker C: Oh, I like that. [01:36:39] Speaker B: That's cool. That's really cool. [01:36:42] Speaker C: I nicked off to Cannon show and tell. [01:36:45] Speaker B: Yes, please. [01:36:48] Speaker C: Look at that. What lens is that? [01:36:51] Speaker A: It's all about the lens 24 to 70, which I think is just such a great everyday lens. Like, it just does everything come on. Like, it's just easy. [01:36:59] Speaker C: Is it the version 1 or the version 2? 24 to 70. [01:37:04] Speaker A: How do I know? [01:37:05] Speaker C: I'd know if it was the two. It would have come out in the last six months. Is the one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. [01:37:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:15] Speaker A: All right, smile everyone. Wait, hold on. Let me just do this. Here we go. [01:37:22] Speaker C: I'm just gonna get my lights set up. You guys just relax. [01:37:25] Speaker A: Yeah, Just doing a little behind the scene. [01:37:29] Speaker C: I love it. I don't think anyone's ever done that. [01:37:31] Speaker B: That's amazing. [01:37:34] Speaker C: Well, you, you and Dennis. Dennis sent me a picture of this podcast earlier. [01:37:39] Speaker A: Has he sent one. Oh, my God. [01:37:41] Speaker C: He sent me one of the. Of us on this podcast and said, this is very special. Love the energy. Thanks, Dennis. Very cool. [01:37:51] Speaker A: I love the sound. Like it's got it missing. Such a nice pitter patter of sound. [01:37:57] Speaker B: It is. [01:37:58] Speaker C: Hang on. [01:37:58] Speaker B: What. [01:37:58] Speaker C: What camera is that? [01:38:00] Speaker A: It's the Z6 too. [01:38:02] Speaker C: That's right. Because. Yeah, I was going to say it sounds like it's got a shutter. Not a. Not a electronic shutter because the Z8s are all electronic. [01:38:10] Speaker B: I didn't know that. [01:38:11] Speaker A: It's mirrorless. Yeah. So it's all electronic. You can turn it off, obviously, which I've had to do. [01:38:16] Speaker C: Hang on. Is this so. Hang on. So the Z6. Does the Z6 II have a mechanical shutter? Does the. Because the Z8 has no mechanical shutter. [01:38:28] Speaker A: Shutter off as well. The sound. [01:38:31] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out whether it's. Yes. So the Z62 still has a mechanical shutter, which I thought so. Whereas. Yeah. So if you go to the Z8, there's no mechanical shutter in them anymore. So you know that that sound, it doesn't have that. It's only got the electronic, like fake shutter sound. But the. But the Z8's an amazing camera still. [01:38:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:38:52] Speaker B: Is there. Is there any brand out there that has mastered that fake shutter sound yet? No, because, you know, back in the DSLR days, it was very. It was very tactile because you had haptic feedback, which was the actual, you know, that mechanical motion and you'd feel it in your hand. It was so beautiful. It was a clunk. Such a lovely sound and feel. It is beautiful. So is that your workhorse lens, Vicki? [01:39:17] Speaker A: It is, yep. You'd ask me a question, you know, maybe 10, 12 years ago, when I just had my portrait studio, I was doing all location portraiture. It was always a 7200 at 2.8 was pretty much the sweet stuff. Spot at 200 was the magic. And I'd walk down the other end of the park, whatever. [01:39:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:39:37] Speaker C: Hello, Smile. [01:39:39] Speaker A: My ability to project my voice. But yeah, if I was just doing solo portions, be 2.8, so. But if I was doing groups, I'd sort of close it down. But wow, it was. It's such a beautiful lens. Like, I love the 7200, but because, you know, you kind of adapt your genre as you move through life. And that's what I've done is, you know, you start through where you're at as a person, a mother. You know, first of all, like, I'd Be doing weddings and pregnancy and then I'd go into family. So I was kind of parallel to my own life's journey. I would photograph the same genre, which is quite funny. And now that the kids have flown the nest and I was like, oh. [01:40:19] Speaker B: You know, I decided, oh, lucky you. [01:40:24] Speaker C: Greg's just building a bigger and bigger nest. [01:40:26] Speaker B: Yeah, we're family of eight at the moment, so, you know. [01:40:29] Speaker A: Holy moly. [01:40:30] Speaker C: Yeah, indeed. [01:40:31] Speaker B: Holy moly. That's. That's one way to put it. [01:40:33] Speaker A: Well done. Congratulations. Yes, I just. For my. For my corporate work. And I do love corporate work because, you know, it's interesting because there's a lot of, you know, oh, I hate readings. Oh, why would you do corporate? Whatever. But oh my gosh, you know, the more people that say they don't like corporate, the better for me, because I absolutely love doing the stuff that I do is amazing because I, you know, I get to meet all these incredible people and different walks of life and I have this beautiful interaction with them for whatever it is, a few moments and I learn about them and I'm like, wow, you're incredible. And I do these beautiful portraits of them and I love what I do and, you know, I just want more of that, you know. Did loads of work actually, at Melbourne University. Had a gorgeous friend who provided an opportunity for me there and they're my sort of regular clients. I've got a gig later on today with them and so I actually, for. For about a year or so, the medical faculty employed me to be their in house photographer for a couple days. [01:41:36] Speaker B: At Melbourne Uni. [01:41:38] Speaker A: Yes. [01:41:38] Speaker B: Oh, that's where my partner works in the nursing department. Yeah. [01:41:43] Speaker A: Fantastic. So I'm in with all the incredible scientists and engineers. I learned about what they do and the chemists and, yeah, get to do all these incredible portraits of the academics, the students. I do like, you know, website work for them, in situ work, event work. I only kind of once had an opportunity to do a specimen, what they call a specimen, which is, you know, a surge. A student studying surgery cutting into a thigh. So kind of got an opportunity to walk through there, you know, where all the cadavers are. So that was quite fascinating and yeah, kind of emotional too at the same time, you know, it's like you could kind of feel this energy, like overwhelmed with this kind of sense of this incredible, you know, dedication, like, you know, surrendering their bodies for science is, you know, quite incredible and quite a bit a lovely thing, you know, just like, wow, this is, you know. Yeah, that's a Hard thing to do. And the thing I love about Melbourne Uni is they actually honor all of those people who have donated their bodies each year with a beautiful ceremony. Like, they acknowledge them for the family, and it's just stunning. So there's all these things I learned that I just went, wow, this is so. Such an amazing place. Y. Yeah. So from that opportunity, I ended up getting other opportunities. So I'm very grateful for that. Yeah. So I get to see, you know, I've done some government work and lawyers and accountants and all sorts of different people from different walks of life, and it's great. Every day is different. [01:43:16] Speaker C: Have you ever had not to put a dampener on this? Because I actually think, yeah, commercial photography is amazing. And I think, especially if you're enjoying it, I can't believe that people would be too negative about it in terms of, like, it seems like great work. I think the hardest part would be getting consistent work. So if you're getting consistent work, you've cracked the code. Yeah, but there's always downsides to any genre. And I heard a story the other day, actually direct from. From Jim, who's often on this podcast, but not here today. He went to a headshot shoot, which is like all day staff, you know, various staff, different groups, headshots, all that sort of stuff. And Jimbo's, he's, you know, started off photojournalist, full time photojournalist, and then me and him shot weddings together for 10 years. He still does weddings. Safe to say you could throw him into any environment and he will rapidly get a great photo. Yeah, that's what he's built his career on. And he. He's been shooting this all day. It's dragged on, it's running behind time, and the director of the company walks in for his headshot and kind of give, like walks in late, obviously had meetings and stuff. And Jim had to just basically sit around and wait for him to roll in. He was the last person of the day. And I can't remember the exact phrase he said, but it was definitely along the lines of, can we get this going? I've got stuff to do. Basically, that was as soon as he walked in and I was like, oh, that's just the. Do you get much of that? Like the, I'm busy, you better hurry up. Even though you haven't. You haven't been slow yet. I haven't even give you a chance. Like, he wasn't reacting to, like, Jim saying, I gotta set. Oh, here he is. Maybe you're. What what, what exactly was said? But it was basically like a, hey, let's, let's get this show on the road. I don't want to be sitting around here all day for a photo. [01:45:25] Speaker A: But he hasn't even got a roll with it. Don't you, like, you've just different personality parts. Yeah, I've come across all sorts, you know, not a lot. I think the majority of people have been really, you know, you know, cooperative. [01:45:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:45:40] Speaker A: I mean, there's been some stinging moments that I've just had to keep working through and also just. Yeah. Having to read people. But yeah, I know it kind of Lucky was at the end of the day because sometimes it could set the tone for the rest of the shoot. [01:45:53] Speaker C: Well, lucky, lucky for him. Jim might have left. [01:45:56] Speaker A: Yeah, he handled it really well. [01:46:00] Speaker C: Yeah, he would. He would have just rolled with it. [01:46:02] Speaker A: And yeah, it's the public. Like you're going to get people regardless. Not all going to be. Yeah, everyone, like the way you deal with it is going to be really important as well. I think that's the case. Your response? I did have a little challenge last year where that person just did not want to be there. Like it was really evident and I tried. And obviously no eye contact as well. So that was a little bit tricky. And they just walked out and just didn't want to be part of it and re photographed them. So they, they got me back in to look and I said, look, I'm sorry about this. This. I just want to let you know. And then I sort of persuaded that person. I said, I'm really grateful that you've come back and I'll be really, really fast, if you wouldn't mind. I've been brought back especially to Cat, you know, because you're an important part of the team. We really want to capture you. And I got the shot, but yeah, I just had to communicate that and they were very grateful. But, you know, I understand, understand. Like it was a whole lot of their own, you know, internal, you know, challenges. And I just wanted to keep it really okay and connect with them in a way that was like, you're in a good space. I'll look after you. I'll be really fast, I promise. Just eyes to camera. Thank you so much. [01:47:17] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:47:20] Speaker B: It reminds me of a, of a scene. Sorry, Jess, I was just gonna say it reminds me of a scene from, from Ted Lasso. Has anyone watched Ted Lasso here? Love Ted Lasso. It's. It's kind of like my therapy sometimes. [01:47:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And. [01:47:33] Speaker B: And there's a scene where Roy Kent. You should watch it, Justin. It's a great show. [01:47:37] Speaker C: You love it. [01:47:39] Speaker B: Roy Kent is at a press conference and he. And he talks about why a player did a. They behave badly. And he was trying to, you know, Roy was getting hounded by the press as to why this guy did this horrible act. And he said, well, you know, I. None of you know what's going on in anyone else's lives in this room. No one knows what you've. You've faced before you even walked in the room. And so given that. I don't know, you know, rather than criticize him, I give him love, you know, and that's always stuck with me because it is. You don't know. And, you know, we've all had bad days. I know I've had shocking days where I've been horrible. [01:48:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:48:12] Speaker B: And. And if it wasn't for people showing me love rather than criticizing, you know, what's with the attitude? It's. You just don't know what people are doing with. And in your role in particular as a headshot specialist and a portrait photographer, even with your fine art practices, it's going into those shoots with that sort of mindset that I don't know this person. I don't know what they've dealt with. So I'm just going to give them the best experience that I can with what's presented to me. [01:48:40] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, we sociologists and psychologists, like, with all these other little things that we don't realize we are. [01:48:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:48:47] Speaker A: As you become more experienced and have more, like, you know, if you kind of, you know, if you could kind of imagine how many people you photograph in your entire life, like, it'd be pretty nuts how many interactions you had, how many people you've captured. Like, it'd be millions, I think. And over time, you kind of get a sense of. You start to, like, it's quite subliminal, but you start to read people and you start to see. You kind of get these little, you know, little nuances and you go, okay, I think I need to, you know, be. Bring my tone down. Just be very kind of a little bit more conservative maybe. So every time they walk in the room, you just kind of get a sense of who they are. Then you adapt. [01:49:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:49:27] Speaker A: So, like, we're chameleons. Like, we're constantly kind of changing our conversations, our tone, our expressions according to fit with that person that we're photographing. That becomes that connection that we're able to create. Create a great portrait and do you. [01:49:41] Speaker B: Think that that comes from life experience? Do you think newer photographers with little life experience, so to speak, they would struggle with that, that kind of concept compared to someone who's been shooting for, you know, two, three decades? [01:49:55] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think if they're aware of it, because we were never told any of these things, like when we were training, like, it was very factual and, you know, as a student, everything was factual. This how it's all about, you know, the craft and everything. None. None of it ever got into the depth of people. And I hope that I can share some of that with my students as well. When we talk about rapport and everyone's different and. And I'm learning all the time as well. Like, I'm, you know, with so many kind of this beautiful awareness of neurodivergency now and just understanding, like, you know, college, we did a really great workshop around that. And it's like me, like, I want to understand better and read signals more accurately, so I can make that a nice experience for that person. So I love that we're having open conversations around diversity, neurodiversity, especially. So, you know, it's a term that we would not never have had decades ago. And then I think back in the past, I'm like, oh, my God, it all makes sense now with that person or that person, you know, could have been approached differently, you know, would have changed the way I did this. So, yeah, it's very contemporary world that we can understand these things. [01:51:02] Speaker B: Yep. Indeed. [01:51:04] Speaker C: Just to put a cap on Jim's story, because he's here in the chat giving us the facts. So Jim says, I always start with a brief chat to help disarm people. Then. So during that chat, he sort of cut Jim off and said, can we get started? I've got a lot on. And then afterwards was like, wow, that was quick. [01:51:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:51:26] Speaker C: Because you know what it's like. Like, if you've done headshots all day with a style for a. For a business, you're already set up, everything's already, like, it's just going to take maybe three minutes, you know, like, especially for a guy, you're like, all right, your hair's cool, suit's cool, tie's cool. Look here. All right, turn that way. We'll try another one. All right, perfect. And we're done. And it's like. Whereas I guess he was probably coming in thinking, everything's gone bad today. My day's. And now I'm gonna have to spend half an hour with this photographer. Bloody Around. Yeah, like faffing about taking this one photo that I don't really care about. I just got told we needed new ones or whatever. [01:52:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's right. [01:52:10] Speaker C: And. Yeah. And then it's like, nope, it's over. Oh. Oh, it's over. Yep, that's it. [01:52:15] Speaker B: And to his. To his credit. To his credit, Jim may be the size of a mountain, but, you know, it's tall as a mountain. But he's got the opposite disarming. He's got the opposite personality. He's a very sweet, disarming person. [01:52:27] Speaker C: No, I was going to say he's got the opposite issue to Vicky doesn't bring a chair. Wherever he goes and sits, Jim is the ladder. [01:52:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:52:37] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Very, very, very interesting. But it's a. It's a fun world. I think corporate stuff is. You could make it a wonderful career out of that. [01:52:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:52:49] Speaker C: If you. If you put the work into it and do great by your clients and fast turnarounds and just give them what they want. [01:52:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Do really beautiful tweaking. Like, you know, I really prepare them nicely, too. Like, I'm all about the service and always being polite and just listening and communicating. And I give them like a style guide on how to prepare, what to wear, things to consider, you know, suggestions. And they love that little added value. So everyone. And so many people read it and go, oh. Because I go, oh, my God, you look amazing. They go, yeah, I read your style guide. I mean, amazing. [01:53:24] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:53:25] Speaker B: It just. And it just takes off that layer of anxiety about what to expect. [01:53:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:53:30] Speaker A: And then because I'm showing them a range of different people, like, you know, if you've got glasses, if you don't, you know, just different colors, how they translate, different lighting. So everyone's kind of got a vision. So they're not kind of. Yeah, Just what's happening? Like, there's no mystery. [01:53:45] Speaker B: Yep, Yep. [01:53:49] Speaker C: Drunk wedding photographer says guests warm up to me quickly at weddings because I don't look like a photographer. I look like a guest. [01:53:55] Speaker A: A drunk guest. [01:53:57] Speaker C: Drunk guest with a Nikon F5. One camera, one lens all day. Dennis does his head shot sessions. Like his Instax record at B file in, out, done. [01:54:06] Speaker A: Next, Boom. [01:54:07] Speaker C: Move. Next. You could do it. You could do a 400 person company like that. That would be amazing. Just have. Have someone just wrangling departments. All right, come on, Sales department down here now. Oh, there's your photo. [01:54:21] Speaker A: I love your photo. [01:54:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I love mine, too. I love that I didn't get mine done on the stage because Justin and Jim. Justin and Jim got this done. Well, they had test shots done on the stage and I was busy. I was running the stall. Obviously someone had to sell the straps and I missed it. But then at the after party. [01:54:42] Speaker C: Open yet? [01:54:43] Speaker B: No, we weren't. But at the after party, I don't know where I was. But at the after party, Dennis had set up the rig with the cameras and so I got mine done there, which was really beautiful. It was a really lovely experience because I have a lot of respect and time for Dan and to get a photo. Like to get, you know, a Dennis Smith one of a kind photo of yourself. Like, how cool is that? I got goosebumps. [01:55:06] Speaker C: Bruce says we should put Andrew Campbell on the list about his head shot business, but also Astro work. [01:55:12] Speaker A: Yeah, actually that funny you said that because I actually did work for Andrew in my early days as well at the Headshot company with him. Him and his wife Robin. And they're amazing team, beautiful studio in the city. And I had a really great time actually working for them when, you know, when I needed some help. So they were all part of that AIPP family that really looked out. I really learned so much from those guys. So thank you. [01:55:38] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [01:55:38] Speaker C: His astro is crazy. [01:55:40] Speaker A: I know, it's nuts. That's something different. [01:55:43] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:55:44] Speaker B: And it's interesting that divert that diversity of. Of genres, you know, and I was looking at your. Your fine art practice versus your portrait work and that there's this real. It's not a disconnect because I can see the connections in the style and the approach. But it is interesting how people have these, these really diverse interests in photography and, you know, headshots and astro, they just don't feel like they go together. And then you see people that doesn't matter what they tackle. Justin, who was the. I've forgotten his name. He was an underwater photographer. Was it Patelli? [01:56:19] Speaker C: Scott Portelli? The Scott Portal for the year. You forgot his name? [01:56:23] Speaker B: No, no, no. Just for a moment. Just for a moment. I am much older than you remember. Bear with. But he recently won another award and he won. He won like an underwater award and a landscape award for like a nighttime landscape with astronauts. And it was like, how much of a smart ass do you need to be, you know, really let someone else take one. Come on. [01:56:50] Speaker C: For the rest of us. [01:56:52] Speaker B: Indeed. But, you know, it's that, it's that amazing ability and you know, we see it in a lot of the people that we talk to and a lot of our mates on the show and you know, talking about that, that diversity, you know, last week we had Lucas Packet, live music photographer, like amazing, amazing experience and exposure to some of the great, greatest performance acts that have come to Australia. But then, you know, he's hit the flip side of that is that he loves photojournalism and he goes and photographs, protests. You know, you've got these two opposing worlds. You've got the freedom and the beauty and, and the energy of live music and then you've got this rigidity of police in riot gear facing down average citizen. You know, it's just this beautiful kind of blend of work that makes you go, wow, they really, they really split their time, you know, across two very different things. I, I really have a lot of respect for that. It's very cool. [01:57:49] Speaker C: Just a quick derailment. I know we're at the tail end of the show, Vicki. We've dragged it on long enough. But we had a question here earlier about electronic shutter instead of manual shutter. Shane Henderson wants to know, are there any negatives to using electronic shutter instead of mechanical? [01:58:03] Speaker A: There's no negative, it's only digital. [01:58:06] Speaker C: Ah, nice, nice pun there. Well played. [01:58:10] Speaker B: That took me a minute. It took me a minute. [01:58:12] Speaker C: It took you a second. Greg's like. [01:58:13] Speaker B: It did, yeah. What did he say? [01:58:15] Speaker C: So I wouldn't say I'm an expert in this but the negatives are generally so the negatives are very much dependent on the sensor itself. The better the sensor and the better the sensor technology is for using electronic shutter, the less the negatives are or depending on what the negatives are, for example, you will get like a rolling shutter issue. So if you're shooting fast action, if you're doing whip pans, you'll get crooked lines like fences, crooked, crooked verticals. If you're shooting golf, the golf club will be warped instead of straight. If you're shooting electronic shutter regardless of your shutter speed. Because it's all about how quickly the sensor can read out top to bottom but faster sensors, stacked sensors have less of those issues. So like the Canon R1, no problem at all, that sort of stuff. R3, even the R5 Mark 2, no dramas really. A lot of the Sony's have major issues still. Except for their A93 which is a global shutter, global shutter sensor which has zero of those issues. But it has the, the other negatives, lots more of them which are reduced dynamic range and worse high ISO performance. So we're starting to see trade offs from trying to push the shutter speed. The. Sorry, the sensor readout speeds to have less of the issues with motion and have a faster readout is resulting in reduced dynamic range and worse high ISO performance. So I know that if I shoot my Canon R5 Mark II in mechanical shutter versus electronic shutter, I could potentially get at base ISO almost a stop more of dynamic range. I think it's close to that. So there are definitely negatives to shooting in electronic shutter. The pros are you increase your shutter life and you'll generally get faster, unlock faster. You know you can get 30 frames a second or even 40 frames a second out of some cameras instead of 12 frames a second. So. Yeah. And also the big one, Lucinda and, and Bruce and stuff talking about is LED lights can behave very, very with certain frequencies and flickering. That's why cameras have anti flickering stuff in there. But even that there's a lot of, a lot of issues. So yeah, yeah. [02:00:43] Speaker B: I love your brain that dispute out of you. [02:00:46] Speaker C: The positives are obviously you can go full, full silent shutter on electronic as well. So it's, it's. No one even knows you're taking a photo. So you're doing this. [02:00:57] Speaker A: I actually photographed the funeral and I was able to use that. That was a one great thing about the cameras. I could put on silent. [02:01:04] Speaker C: Oh, that's cool. There's just no one, so. No one. We weren't disrupting anything. Any of those moments kind of making. [02:01:12] Speaker A: Me a bit nervous. But then I realized when they had my camera I could do that. And then every. Like if the congregation knew that I was there and they had announced that I was requested to be there. So that was a bit of a relief. Yeah. [02:01:23] Speaker B: So yeah, it would have been awkward otherwise, wouldn't it? [02:01:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [02:01:29] Speaker C: It's people that. What are they called? Facilitators of funerals. What are they like a director. [02:01:36] Speaker B: Funeral director. [02:01:36] Speaker C: Yeah. The people that speak. What are they called? Celebrant. Oh yeah. But yeah, these, they're good. Like good ones of those are very good at their. At things like that. Like trying to, you know, make sure everyone's comfortable. It all works. It's respectful but it's. Yeah. [02:01:57] Speaker A: I nearly thought about going into becoming a celebrant at one stage. [02:02:01] Speaker C: You'd be a great seller. [02:02:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:02:03] Speaker A: I'll keep that in my retirement. [02:02:04] Speaker B: Maybe still get a both. [02:02:08] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [02:02:10] Speaker A: Like I celebrate the wedding photographer and you know I do karate. So I do. I always. You always used to say at every wedding they're kind of like my little add ons. [02:02:22] Speaker B: How long have you done Karate for? [02:02:24] Speaker A: 30 years. [02:02:26] Speaker C: Wow. [02:02:26] Speaker B: And what question today Was it. Was it a desire for self defense? Was it exercise? What? [02:02:32] Speaker A: My husband at the time was doing it and I thought, oh, maybe. And they asked me to do some photos. So I thought I'd go to the club and I'll take the photos for them. And then one of my really dear high school friends was there and that was it. I was like. She goes, you gotta join. Come and join. I was like, okay. So I did. [02:02:48] Speaker C: Wow. [02:02:49] Speaker B: 30 years later, you're still going. [02:02:50] Speaker A: I'm still going. Oh, my God. [02:02:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:02:53] Speaker C: How good are you at it? Are you. Can you, like, deadly? [02:02:56] Speaker A: No, no, it's a. Everyone sort of thinks it's, like, you know, very aggressive and it's like all fighting, but it's more than that. That. Yeah, it's a lovely practice. So, yeah, lots of beautiful syllabus. Great people. It's very meditative. Yes. We do some sparring and there's just a huge syllabus of work we do, you know, weapons and things like that. [02:03:17] Speaker C: Yeah. Any crazy, crazy things happened? Have you ever been kicked in the head by accident or something like that? [02:03:24] Speaker A: I've been kicked in the head, but I blocked it. [02:03:27] Speaker C: Nice, nice. [02:03:29] Speaker A: And then I retaliated with a little reverse punch. [02:03:33] Speaker B: Do you narrate? Here comes the reverse punt. Like, you know, you get right into it. [02:03:37] Speaker A: I don't tell them. [02:03:39] Speaker C: Yeah. Otherwise they'll block it. Craig, what are your white belt watch Too much television? [02:03:44] Speaker B: Too much Karate Kid, is it? Let's get back to photography. You talked earlier about your, you know, your Nikon. You've got the Z6 II. You're running with the 24 to 72.8 as your workhorse, as a portrait, a headshot photographer. Do you ever reach for a prime? [02:04:01] Speaker A: I've got a 105. [02:04:03] Speaker C: Sometimes I put that on with the macro one. Or the. Or the. Did you ever shoot with the 105? 1.4? [02:04:12] Speaker A: No. [02:04:13] Speaker C: You haven't? Oh, man. So it's on the old mount, so you have to adapt it. It's so good. It's so good. Yeah. Probably not that easy when I was. [02:04:23] Speaker A: Doing, like, when I was doing Weddings. Yeah. I just thought, you know, for all the beautiful detail shots. And I was doing some product work and I thought, I'll Invest in a 10105. Yeah. And so I've got like an adapter now for my Z Kit. So sometimes I pop that on. [02:04:38] Speaker C: Yep, yep. [02:04:38] Speaker B: But otherwise you're running with a pretty slim kit, aren't you? You're running with. [02:04:41] Speaker A: Yeah, just I, you know, A lot of battery. I have to make sure I've always got lots of batteries, that's all. Because, you know, sometimes I have really big days and, you know, I have to make sure I've got a good supply. Yeah, I try and keep it really simple, actually. I mean, I do all my work sort of location, which means I do have to take my gear and backdrops and things like that. But I have to say, I invested in a gorilla trolley and it was the best thing I ever did. Amazing gorilla. Love it. [02:05:11] Speaker B: They're like a production. Production trolley that you can attach everything. [02:05:15] Speaker A: I just pull it, no effort. Amazing. And I can just get it into a lift. Boom. You know, so, yeah, you'll see me. [02:05:22] Speaker B: Oh, is that like the one. One of the ones you see people take to, like, the market and stuff, or they put their kids in to scoop them to the beach. Okay. Yeah. [02:05:32] Speaker A: And I've got a really great. I love my, like, my camera trolley. I was actually gifted that at one of the Nikon events, but the wheels have all eroded, so I'm hoping I can replace the wheels on it because I so love it. My camera trolley is fantastic. [02:05:46] Speaker C: Surely someone would be able to. [02:05:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Find out. I don't think it's a think tank one. I have to have a look. But, yeah, I just absolutely love that. And like, you know, my tripod I've had since I first started, too. I love that socket tripod. Not that I use it often. [02:06:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:06:02] Speaker A: But if I'm doing maybe, like, sometimes I'll do some industry work and I might want to do a little bit of blurring or whatever. I might, you know, do a static shot and have a slow shutter, things like that. But. Oh, my God. Some of my gear, I've just had forever. [02:06:16] Speaker B: Have you always shot Nikon? [02:06:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I started with a Pentax P30 in my college days. [02:06:23] Speaker C: Yep. [02:06:23] Speaker A: And look, I've still got. Because I knew it was show and tell. I do still have my. My film camera, my 601. [02:06:31] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [02:06:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:06:33] Speaker C: What lens is that on it? [02:06:35] Speaker A: What's this one? This is 24 to 120 millimeter. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. [02:06:41] Speaker B: Do you still shoot film? [02:06:43] Speaker A: I. Look, I put it. I put a roll through last year and it was great. But it was on my F5. But I could, like. There's certain mechanics that have failed. I can only shoot at 100, 100th of a second. [02:06:56] Speaker C: Oh, no. [02:06:58] Speaker A: And I still have a light meter, too. So anyway, I. I managed. It all came out really nice. So I Didn't nervous. And I've still got my bronicas. I've got my Bronicas Mamia. Large format still as well. [02:07:12] Speaker C: Is there any other. Is there any other show and tell you've been holding out on us on? What else you got over there? [02:07:16] Speaker B: Look like. [02:07:17] Speaker A: I don't know. We're going to talk about any of my art pieces by any show. [02:07:21] Speaker C: No, we should. [02:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah, we. [02:07:23] Speaker C: We should. Somehow we've blown through two hours already, but we. We got time. What? Yeah, let's talk about something. What do you got for us? [02:07:29] Speaker A: Let's say also my website as well, but like my Cluedo series. [02:07:35] Speaker B: Pluto collection. [02:07:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I saw this on there. I was gonna ask you about this. Tell us about it. [02:07:41] Speaker A: Hey, I found the mask that inspired the whole series. [02:07:47] Speaker B: So tell us about how that came to be. [02:07:49] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, it's always true, being inspired by others. And there's a wonderful photographer called. It's really hard to pronounce her name. My students always show her work. Freaka Janssen Fre J. A double N. Anyway, her work's amazing, but there was this whole series that she did on smoking children. So there was children? Yeah, there was this boy in I think Malaysia or somewhere, Philippines, who is five years old that was a chainsmoker. Anyway, she created this series around. This is like how my brain works. She created this whole series around smoking children. And it's amazing. And I just loved the colors and I love the way that she created this kind of circle. And that was my inspiration. So I just grabbed that. And then my friend had a shop and gave me all these masks and I thought, oh, maybe I could do something fun with the mask. And as I started to lay out the mask, my brain went, oh, my God. This like. It's like Cluedo, the board game. Like, I could create a character of each one of them. And so that's how it came about. So. Yeah, I. Can you believe I shot this in my kitchen? [02:09:01] Speaker C: What? [02:09:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And I painted a background and got all the nice textures. And then I just costumed my kids and their friends into all these characters. If you look at the Professor Plum one and zoom in on there. Yeah, there's. The smoke is actually a woman's body. [02:09:24] Speaker C: Oh, it is too. I can see her boobies. [02:09:28] Speaker B: Wow. [02:09:29] Speaker A: And so if you've ever played Pluto, you'll know that there's a weapon for each one of the characters. Yeah. So I've got Professor Plum with the pipe. And there's a pun on pipe. [02:09:41] Speaker C: Because there's two pipes. [02:09:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And then I've hidden the dice in each of the. Because it's a board game. [02:09:48] Speaker C: I see it. Yeah, I see the dice. [02:09:50] Speaker A: And then you'll see it. [02:09:53] Speaker B: Is that on the. Is that the. Where's the dice? I can't see that. Oh, yes, of course. Very cool. [02:09:59] Speaker C: Okay. [02:10:01] Speaker A: The checker as a boy. You know the board game having checkers. [02:10:04] Speaker C: Yep. [02:10:05] Speaker B: Okay. [02:10:06] Speaker A: And so that was Reverend Green, because he's religious. I'll put the. With the wrenches. I put the wrench as a crucifix to kind of symbolize these religious. And then you'll see the dice hidden in the garment. [02:10:23] Speaker B: The jacket. [02:10:24] Speaker C: Oh, the buttons. The buttons, yeah. Sneaky. You can't. Probably can't see them through the Internet, but I can see them on my screen. [02:10:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I can see them. [02:10:35] Speaker C: Wow. [02:10:37] Speaker A: Yes. I printed up really nicely, actually. And yeah, I'm really happy with the. It's one of my favorite projects. And that's Miss. Oh, well, you'd say Miss Red, but it wasn't red or something else. Maybe it was Ruby. I can't remember if I've got it written down below. Maybe not. Anyway. [02:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah, they're great, aren't they? [02:11:06] Speaker C: Yeah, these are. These are amazing. [02:11:11] Speaker A: With the expression. That was my daughter, actually. She had. She had her eyes closed. And then it took me a while to realize that when I went to retouch, it was like, where the hell is her eyeballs? I'm like, what happened? The heck? Where's your eyeballs? She goes, I was so bored. Mum. [02:11:31] Speaker B: Nodded off a little bit. [02:11:33] Speaker C: Oh. [02:11:34] Speaker A: So I worked with it. And then Ms. White with the candlestick. That wasn't. Yeah, it was a really fun thing to do. I actually really enjoy the. I really enjoy the Photoshop side of it because it, like I always say, it's like embroidery for me. Like, I kind of look at every pixel and just, you know, create all these, you know, dark and light and little colors here and there and get really hyper focused in it and just get lost in the process. Like, I find it really meditative. [02:12:06] Speaker B: Yep. [02:12:08] Speaker A: It's the seamstress me. [02:12:11] Speaker C: Yeah. They're beautiful shots. [02:12:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:12:14] Speaker A: And I love that. I just put it in my kitchen with a backdrop. [02:12:17] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. So you kind of said, like, how you stumbled across. Well, not stumbled across, but how this idea evolved. But like, what are. What are projects for you? Where does that come from? The need to do a project or the. Or the idea of turning just a thought into something bigger that you're going to put so much effort into and so much energy. [02:12:42] Speaker A: It's funny just they pop in my head and they always have like little ideas and then I get really fixated on executing them. I don't know, it's a hard thing to sort of explain, explain. So like, even when I was at college, like I did a really challenging project or you know, folio, you know, where I was printing on four, five and shoot, you know, shooting four or five cameras and making really four foot, you know, size prints and everything. And I get so kind of obsessed with it and I can't stop thinking about it and I just have to keep going. And you know, sometimes it might come from music or from film or it might be something someone said that just spurs on a little idea. Yeah, I don't know. It's really quite, quite bizarre. And it was like, it was interesting. I suppose the AIPP was a really great platform to sort of give me some goal posts to say, well, I'll work towards this, I'll work towards that. Yeah. And then, yeah. And then like there was a really incredible occasion. There's, on my, on my website there's some like, you know, childhood days, I think I've called it. And there's this beautiful elderly gentleman that I, that I met in Perth when I was doing a talk at the time. And for some reason I had this incredible inclination to go and photograph him and it was like such an urgency, like an itch I had to scratch that I had to. I literally went up to him and I couldn't believe that he was at the lecture actually. And I just said thank, you know, thanked him for coming along and he had a beautiful little like. And I said, oh, you know, do you mind humoring me and would you mind posing for me? He said no, I'd be delighted to. And so we kind of got talking and there's some beautiful window light coming through and I said, oh, you know, just maybe, you know, just hold your camera. And we just did a whole lot of different things and I just didn't know what I wanted to do with it and I just left it. And then one day I just got an idea and I was like, oh, maybe I'll revisit that beautiful portrait of Ronald and see what I can create. So I found a beautiful old photo of my, my stepfather's kind of archives and this was an actual photo at Luna park in the early 1900s where they would actually illustrate a background and they'd have a prop which was this kind of tiger moth airplane. Then that would be like a postcard souvenir. Like, to me this is like the photoshop of the 1900s. Like, this is the creativity that came about in those days and the beautiful elegance of what they created. And I love this photo and I just thought, wouldn't it be curious to be able to photograph your past or photograph an old memory that you didn't capture? And that was the whole premise was like, maybe he's photographing his past in this. [02:15:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [02:15:21] Speaker A: On the left hand side we've got the, you know, two young boys and sitting inside this beautiful tiger moth. On the right hand side we've got beautiful Ronald who's, you know, photographing or, you know, kind of recalling back a memory of childhood and what it was like, you know, that sort of happiness of being a kid, I guess. And then I had this beautiful bit of piece of architecture which was at Monsal Vat and I popped that behind. Anyway, it was just. Yeah, it was great. Got lots of awards and it was really fantastic and I really loved it. But the magic is I sent that photo to Ronald and a letter to say thank you so much for that day and here's a, a gift and I just wanted to thank you. And how's this? He sends me back a beautiful box of chocolates, he sends me a beautiful letter and. And he sends me a photo. And for his 90th birthday, which was only like within a month ago or so, he goes, how serendipitous, Vicky. Because I. For my 90th birthday, I think it was 90. That was quite. Yeah, I went on a tiger moth airplane and. And he sent me the photo of him in the airplane. [02:16:34] Speaker C: Wow. [02:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah. So there you go. That's kind of something beyond logic. [02:16:38] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a little spooky. [02:16:40] Speaker B: That's magic. [02:16:41] Speaker A: And how's this? And he was an architect. He's a very renowned architect in WA at the time, you know, his career. And so it was interesting because I felt like I needed to piece. Put some architecture behind him. [02:16:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:16:54] Speaker A: And there you go. [02:16:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Just to give it a bit of grounding and bit of history and context. [02:16:58] Speaker A: It's amazing how ideas come about in really unusual ways. [02:17:03] Speaker C: Yeah, that is. [02:17:05] Speaker B: That's a great story. [02:17:06] Speaker C: Yeah, that's brilliant. And kind of spooky. [02:17:08] Speaker A: It's spooky story. Lots of spooky stories. [02:17:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:17:12] Speaker C: I love this series. [02:17:14] Speaker B: And so how often do these, these inspirations, these moments come to you where you go, oh, do you, do you, you know, do you jot them down? Do you make a little note on your phone or do you get the camera out and just start getting creative straight away? How does that. How does that transpire for you? [02:17:31] Speaker A: I kind of write things down or, you know, I might start photographing elements. So I've got. In my hard drive, I've got a folder called the Pantry, like a kitchen pantry in my pantry. I'll pop in, like, if I see something that I really love. Might be a texture called. Could be a creature. It could be an old vintage object, like, you know, rocking horse or whatever, and I just sort of start to collate a library of objects and things and bits and pieces. [02:17:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:17:59] Speaker A: So it kind of sometimes will sit in there until I kind of come up with an idea. But I suppose, like, you know, my motivation during those days of the AIPP was to create these, you know, conceptual pieces, but was really interesting after that. You know, that time had sort of passed and I was teaching. I thought it'd be good to go back just to raw shooting. Like really just straight out of camera, pretty much shooting. And I kind of changed my. I guess my approach tonight. Just tried to revisit what I used to do back in my early film days and try and adapt the knowledge and. And just shoot plainly. So then I started creating some more simple portraits that you'll see on the website site that's just very, you know, sort of exploring, like teenagers and tweens and things that were kind of relevant to my journey in life at the time and just shooting straight. But I do really miss the composite work, and I just. It's just a matter of finding time, I think, at the moment. And also, I guess with AI AI happening too, it's kind of thinking about ways that I could work in re. Like, work in reverse. So there were ideas that I had years ago that I haven't executed that I still want to do. And I thought I'd pop it into AI at some stage to see how it would help problem solve and what it could do that might spark on some other ideas for me and try and recreate it backwards. [02:19:25] Speaker C: That's an interesting way to tackle it. Like, just see if there's something that you. A different. Yeah, different line of thinking for a problem that. That you couldn't figure out how to, I guess, do with the traditional photographic method. [02:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:19:41] Speaker A: Sorry. [02:19:42] Speaker C: Oh, well, I don't want to derail you, but I was going to say, what do you think about AI and what do you guys talk about at school, like at the college, about AI and its impact on photography as a profession? [02:19:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm a Firm believer of just working and going with it in some ways, like finding ways to adapt to it. And I don't see it necessarily as negative. It's just another. Another tool. I like. That's my approach. Another tool. For me, it's another cleaning tool in Photoshop. Like, I'll clean with it and whatever, and I love it for that. And I definitely would love to be able to sort of generate, you know, images or thoughts and ideas that are coming to my mind that I would love to execute. But I also say the students, like, you know, just play with it. And we've done that kind of activity where we've created the image and then recreated it in the studio. [02:20:37] Speaker B: Ah, okay. [02:20:38] Speaker C: It's a fun. It's a fun thing. Like, hey, AI spat this out. Yeah, let's shoot that in the studio. [02:20:44] Speaker B: Could you imagine us trying to recreate the chicken shoot? Justin? [02:20:47] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. That's probably one of our finest pieces of art. [02:20:50] Speaker B: That is one of our finest pieces. We made that together. Well, I mean, you did most of it, but. Well, actually, AI did most of it. [02:20:55] Speaker C: I did most of the heavy lifting. Now, our intro song is AI Vicky. I don't know if, you know, I didn't record that myself. It was generated. [02:21:05] Speaker A: Stella voice. [02:21:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's a, That's a good way to look at it, because I think pushing back against it, I mean, pushing back against it for your art, I think, is no problem. If you're like, hey, I'm just going to shoot on film. Because then, you know, I can tell everyone, hey, this was shot on film. It's. It's AI free. It's the way I like to create or whatever. But pushing back in it, sort of philosophically and, and sort of just getting angry about it isn't going to obviously do anything for you. It's just gonna. You've. You've got to go with the flow a little bit and be like, well, this is coming. You know, if people make art with it, that's fine. They should make art with it. And then you decide how you're going to implement it into your artistic practice. [02:21:51] Speaker B: That's right. [02:21:52] Speaker A: Work with it, not against it. [02:21:54] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because if you just sit there saying, oh, they shouldn't. They shouldn't do that. Images shouldn't be made with. With AI or whatever. That's not gonna. That doesn't. [02:22:03] Speaker A: There is. No, no, like, yeah, you can't monitor that. [02:22:07] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. [02:22:08] Speaker A: I obviously see the disadvantages in a lot of ways, ethically, but I think it needs to be adapted ethically. [02:22:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:22:16] Speaker B: And, I mean, I'm one of those people that Justin was just describing. I do push back because I'm a writer and a photographer. From the writing space especially, I push back. And I think my biggest challenge with accepting AI is the way people use it to portray the real, even though it's unreal. I think there needs to be. I think maybe our obligation is to say, I made this with AI. [02:22:43] Speaker A: Yes. [02:22:44] Speaker B: And not try to pass it off as this is a real moment, you. [02:22:47] Speaker A: Know, because it's not. It's a. Yeah. It's a different tool. It's a new tool, but it needs to be acknowledged. Is that. [02:22:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Somehow. [02:22:56] Speaker C: Anyway. [02:22:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:22:58] Speaker B: Don't get me started yelling at the clouds. [02:23:02] Speaker C: No, not this far into the show. All right, well, speaking of this far into the show, we've kept you for a long time. You've probably got things to do today. [02:23:10] Speaker A: What time it does. [02:23:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it's 11:30am here. [02:23:15] Speaker C: Is there anything else that you want to talk about? What do you got? You got anything fun coming up? What's. What's happening? [02:23:21] Speaker A: What have I got fun coming up? Oh, you know, a lot of personal fun things coming up. [02:23:28] Speaker C: Travel things. [02:23:30] Speaker A: This year. Like, I went to Greece this year. That was pretty amazing. I actually. It's really nice, sort of. Yeah. Traveling and shooting as well. I do. I mean, I did a lot of stuff on my iPhone, to be honest. I really enjoyed. And it's just seeing. Seeing the world in a different way. It's kind of quite gorgeous. So, um, travels. Looking forward to sort of creating some workshops. Hopefully for next year. Year. I want to play more with lights because I think for a long time, my career, I kind of avoided studio lights, and, you know, it took me some time to sort of embrace it. Now I'm just like, I want to take it to the next level. I want to keep learning. Obviously, I'm learning all the time. You know, I learned from the students, I learned from my colleagues, from other people. That's kind of always exciting. Looking forward to beef up next year. That'll be fun. Yeah. So, yeah, just keep. Keep on them. Keeping the momentum up, I think, is the. The key, and just. Just loving what I do and more work opportunities. Got a big gig, hopefully coming up with Melbourne Uni that I'm kind of excited about. So that's not confirmed yet, but that'll be a good one. Like. [02:24:37] Speaker B: Yeah, very nice. I. I like the whole. The whole concept of you just got to keep busy. Just. Just keep doing It. Keep pushing it out. [02:24:45] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And, like, even if it's going to exhibitions, like, I love going to exhibitions with friends, and that's always exciting, doing that and seeing what, you know, what's out there. [02:24:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I actually, on that note, there's a great exhibition, I don't know if it's opened yet at the NGV in Melbourne about female photographers. Is that. Has that opened yet? [02:25:02] Speaker A: I think it's about to open or maybe. Yeah, definitely. They'll go for quite some time. Yep. [02:25:09] Speaker B: Yeah. So we're heading to that at some stage. [02:25:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Get back down there. Okay. Should we wrap it up? [02:25:21] Speaker B: It is a souvlaki wrap. Justin, do you want to ask the. The zombie apocalypse question? Because we're nothing if not consistent. [02:25:28] Speaker C: I mean, we are. I feel like. I feel like there's only one possible answer. If you had to photograph the end of the world, Vicky, you can only grab one camera and one lens, what would it be? Oh, the iPhone. The iPhone. [02:25:45] Speaker A: I promise it would be. [02:25:47] Speaker C: I mean, you can say that. You can say if you. If that's what you think. [02:25:51] Speaker B: Nothing wrong with that. [02:25:51] Speaker C: I mean, it makes sense. It's like, it's light, but goes in your pocket. It does heaps of other stuff. You know, it's a calculator in case you. [02:25:59] Speaker B: And you can blog about it while you're doing it, so I know I can. [02:26:02] Speaker A: All my memories are on there. [02:26:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [02:26:06] Speaker C: What. What iPhone you running? What is it. Is it something new or is it a few years old? [02:26:10] Speaker A: Oh, it's a few years old. I'm ready for a new one, I think, because the lenses are a bit murky. I think I've been a bit rough with the lenses. [02:26:17] Speaker B: I had that, too. I just upgraded from the 14 to the 17 Pro. And my God, the difference in image. [02:26:22] Speaker A: Clarity I'm looking at, apart from the. [02:26:24] Speaker B: There's no scratches yet, but yeah, the. The image quality is camera zoom. The zoom is just stunning. [02:26:32] Speaker A: I know. And there's a macro, too, right? [02:26:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:26:35] Speaker C: You can get pretty close with the. [02:26:36] Speaker B: Iphone on the Pros. [02:26:37] Speaker C: Yeah, it's pretty cool. [02:26:39] Speaker A: But that's. I do love my 24 to 70, I have to say. It just. Yeah, it's like an appendage. [02:26:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:26:46] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay. So if it wasn't the iPhone, it'd be 24 to 70 on. On the Z6 II. And off you go. [02:26:52] Speaker A: Yeah, awesome. [02:26:54] Speaker B: Very nice indeed. [02:26:55] Speaker C: All right, before we play the music, I just want to quickly read out a couple of these because they're pretty cool comments. Dennis says, Vicky, you are such a powerhouse. Truly inspirational. Thank you. And one day at a time Photography says you are such a great human. Vicki, thank you for being the best mom Talk ever. We are so blessed to have you in this world. Yeah, everyone's, everyone's a big fan. [02:27:19] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Love you all. Yeah, thanks. [02:27:24] Speaker B: On that note, we, we will roll credits. But just before we do, just on behalf of all of us here at the Camera Life podcast and lucky straps of podcast course who proudly, proudly brought you this episode, thank you so much for your time today, Vicki. It's, you know, often we, we made in life people that are either half, half full, what is it? Glass half full, glass half empty. I think that it's fair to say that your, your glass spilleth over. You have such a great energy. Hey, I gotta start sometime. It's five o' clock somewhere, my mum would say. But yeah, you've brought such a beautiful energy to, to today's episode of the Camera Life podcast. We're very grateful. It was lovely to meet you in person at Beef Up 2025 and actually see you as a cow. That was a highlight for me. But, but on that note, we wish you all the best in the future and, and you know, maybe one day we'll get you back on to, to have some more chats. [02:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah, we can do that image critique or you know. [02:28:20] Speaker C: Yeah, we want you on the panel show. Definitely writing that down. The your images mega special. I'd love to try and squeeze it in before Christmas, but that'll be tough. But anyway, we'll make it happen. All right. Play a terrible AI song and read some more comments. Bruce Moyle says. Thanks Vicky. And guys, Lucinda, love the wholesome energy. Vicky, Paul, thanks. See you next time. Thanks Dennis. Who else to thanks. Thank you. Thanks you, Vicky. No, not us. We, we do this every week. Thanks. Philip Johnson, Good to see you. Drunk wedding photographer. It was good to see you. Lisa Leach, of course. Good to see you. Good to see everyone was. It was a packed house today. Everyone's been in and out. Hot rod custom images. Christine, everybody. Thanks again and we'll catch you guys on the next one. Catch you on Monday night. [02:29:14] Speaker B: If you. [02:29:14] Speaker C: You can jump on anyone that knows how to calibrate the blues and greens on printers. That would be amazing. We'll solve that on Monday night show. [02:29:22] Speaker B: We'll see you then guys. Be safe until then. [02:29:24] Speaker C: See ya.