EP55 Brent Lukey | Using What Works Best

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:10] Speaker B: Used to that one, I've got to say. Good morning everybody and welcome to the Camera Life podcast. It's the 27th of February where January felt like the longest month on earth in history. February has felt like the shortest. It has flown by. This is episode 55 of the camera Life podcast, proudly brought to you by Lucky Straps, makers of premium leather camera straps from Bendigo, Victoria. We are joined today by obviously head honcho Justin chief and bottle washer. Morning, Justin. And we have a special guest on the show today, and it is Brent Lukey. Brent, welcome to the show. We're going to hear all about your photography journey, all about your practices, a little bit about your gear. But first off, can you just give us a brief introduction of, you know, who you are and what you're doing currently in the world of photography? [00:01:06] Speaker A: Sure. [00:01:06] Speaker C: Thanks, Greg. Thanks, Justin. Thanks for having me on. So currently I have a portrait practice and an art practice and I work out of a studio, which is where I am now in the city of Melbourne in South bank, which is small but is large enough to kind of do all those things from. And that's supported by the City of Melbourne and Creative Spaces. And Creative Spaces, if no one knows, is a wonderful organization that's part of the city of Melbourne and there's a bunch of hard working people looking for studio spaces that are affordable for Melbourne city of Melbourne based creative people. So there's my first plug to get onto. [00:01:51] Speaker B: Nice. No, that's good to hear. It's really interesting. We'll get onto that in a bit more detail. [00:01:56] Speaker C: So my background is in documentary, wedding photography, filmmaking. Before everything was digital and these days I don't think I'd want to work with analog equipment as much as a lot of people would. I worked with it for such a long time. Is that enough of an introduction for now? Do you want to? [00:02:23] Speaker A: Sure. [00:02:24] Speaker B: No, you've already left a couple of chunky tidbits for us to come back to, so. Well played, sir, well played. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Especially since I'm literally waiting for a new film camera to arrive in the mail as we speak. But yeah, we'll talk about that later. [00:02:37] Speaker B: It is interesting you bring up, you know, that you like me, you started off in analog and, and sort of, you know, I learned in a dark room. But we recently on the Camera Life, both our Monday evening show, the random photography show, and a lot of our guests that we've had on in recent months especially have been talking about analog film photography. And a couple of weeks ago we had John Yumina on from Lumina Labs. And hey, John, if you're watching. And talking a lot about the process because he's now running a, you know, a small independent film lab in Kyneton. [00:03:16] Speaker C: I think I had Alex brain on, too. And he had Alex on. [00:03:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Last week. Joel Alston. Who else? We had Justin. Lots of film shooters. Oh, he's gone. He's gone for a nap again. [00:03:29] Speaker C: He's gonna get his camera. [00:03:31] Speaker B: I didn't arrive? [00:03:32] Speaker A: No, no. This is Alex Frain's book. It arrived in, like, two days, but I haven't had a chance to open it up this morning. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Put it aside. We'll come back to that in a second. [00:03:40] Speaker A: I'm excited about it. [00:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll open that live on the show, if that's all right. [00:03:44] Speaker A: Oh, okay. We'll do it later. [00:03:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And where was I? Yeah, we've been hearing from a lot of analog film photographers who either haven't played left film or have moved away and come back. I know Joel has moved away and come back recently. In recent years, he sort of dabbled in everything. So, yeah, it's an interesting proposition to hear someone say, I'm done with analog. I'm done with film. I done my time. But the process needs to be faster and simpler and more affordable. Is that kind of what's driving behind your. [00:04:23] Speaker C: That was very. Stan, Very pragmatic response there, Greg. Faster. What simpler did you say? Did you say simple? [00:04:31] Speaker B: Potentially. And more affordable. [00:04:33] Speaker C: It's not simpler. [00:04:35] Speaker B: All right, that's true. [00:04:36] Speaker A: That's true. [00:04:36] Speaker B: Prove me wrong. [00:04:38] Speaker C: Okay, here's the thing that I loved about film, but you also got to understand, I wasn't a darkroom photographer. I shot and use labs all the time, so I enjoyed photographing and then not having to edit. I found that really, really free. Yeah. So I. That a lot. I'm also making all my decisions in the present, very like, this is the photo, or this is. This is the frame, or this is the frame. Rather than thinking about it, reviewing it, thinking about about it, and reviewing it too much. So I kind of. My mind was freer, I think, in some ways, on the shoot. However, having said that, I probably had a few sleepless nights while everything was in the lab afterwards going, did I do that? Or maybe I should have done this? Or, gee, at that moment there, I think I probably chose, you know, the wrong aperture or something like that. And I would kind of, like, toss and turn for a couple of days until I saw the proofs. But really, I. I've just enjoyed the process with Digital cameras so much that I. I never really liked the darkroom process, and so I wouldn't want to go back in there, but I would want to have all that control. So I would find it difficult to not have the control, but I would find it. And I would find it difficult to be in those kind of dark, wet rooms, which was not my world. Yeah, I liked those photographers like Richard Avedon, who was amazing photographer but never went in the dark room, you know, but he had great printers, like these guys who could really stretch and pull his negatives. Like you can kind of do with a RAW file, you know, he had a great team working with him. [00:06:26] Speaker A: Do you think this is a little off subject, but do you think. I know there's a lot of professional photographers now that have editing teams, you know, if they're, say, volume wedding photographers or whatever. And then they work with a. Either a third party or someone in house that does all the editing and that kind of stuff. But, like, has it kind of gone away from the world we. Where, you know, as an artist, you just hand someone raws and they edit them for you. Like, that seems pretty rare these days. Whereas we used to do that. Like, if you were. Yeah. A film photographer, you trusted. If you were not into processing yourself, you fully trusted someone to do all your processing at the lab. That was a technician. They were. They understood what you wanted and you had conversations with them. But do artists do that anymore? Do you think that where they literally just shoot a Raw and then they hand it to someone to complete the artistic process on the back end? It seems pretty rare. [00:07:23] Speaker C: I think people have different processes, and I'm sure there are people who work photos up to a certain degree and then hand them over to other people to. With instructions like photographers have done for, I don't know, decades and decades and decades. And I think all those processes are valid. I don't think the artist needs to kind of work on the entire file, the whole process. I mean, I. My printer has a big say in artwork I print, and I. We have discussion on all the proofs that come out of the printer and go, you know, watch. Should we fix this? Should we fix that? Like. And he'll give me really frank opinions about things and I might say, get far. [00:08:08] Speaker A: Hey, that's. That's legitimate dialogue between colleagues. Two creatives. [00:08:15] Speaker C: That's right. Or I quite like frank conversation in a creative setting. I just. An aside. I bring that into any commercial shoot I'm doing is. I am really open about. About. This is the time to make the decisions, not tomorrow when you look at the photos. So I'm just like, if it's not good, tell me right now. But anyway, my, my printer gets a say in, you know, how things turn out in the end. And sometimes I've made significant edits to my prints based on some of his advice. [00:08:47] Speaker B: What's interesting at the moment in that space around, do we have, you know, does a volume photographer or someone who's busy or someone who just hates the editing process, you know, outsource that, that step that more and more of our editing software, not so much Lightroom, but other apps that are, you know, rushing onto the market or enhancing what they already offer using AI assistance, so to speak. A lot of them are now offering the ability to group and cull volume images. So if you go out and do a wedding, it will, it will group them, it will look for images with the eyes closed, it will look for images out of focus, it'll look for images with visual distractions in them and it will move them aside and cull them for you. And that's the way that AI, a lot of platforms are now, I think. No, not limited. That's John's lab. I can't remember the name of it, but Luminar. Luminar, I think, yeah, I think there's a couple of big ones being pushed at the moment that do just that. They basically, you know, and they promote two photographers to cut out that the costly time spent editing volume photos. And it's really got this whole. You can save money as a professional because you're not outsourcing this to a human. You're basically just telling. You're putting in some text prompts, you're feeding text prompts, or you're feeding the AI software a couple of thousand of your past edited images and it learns from what you've done and then it will just do that for you. Not saying it's a good thing, Greg. [00:10:27] Speaker C: That's a big can of worms, that world. I don't know. So if I was a volume photographer, say I used to shoot weddings, and if I was doing that kind of volume of work, and when I was doing that volume of work, I had to make some decisions about whether I would edit things myself, get other people to edit things, whether I needed other people to photograph other jobs for me while I was photographing a different wedding. And what worked for me is that I only ever wanted to be a sole kind of trader, work for myself, make enough of a living. I didn't want to run a Kind of business where I was sort of at the top of this tree making everyone else do all these little parts. I always wanted to be a photographer, right. Really simply a photographer, which is still what I want to do. Like I. I just enjoy taking still images and trying to make the most interesting still image in the circumstances I'm in. For me, rather than trying to kind of be a business person that's got like five people doing five weddings every weekend and I'm tweaking, tweaking the bits and then I've got people doing post production and I'm looking at all that kind of series of things playing out that didn't interest me at all. And if I was still doing that, I don't think I'd want to program making decisions for me because I love eye closed photos. You know, it's all about. [00:11:53] Speaker B: And out of focus stuff too. [00:11:55] Speaker C: Yeah. And out of focus stuff. And I would be really wanting to see what I thought worked creatively and what didn't. Rather than a system that fills holes, say in an album or a slideshow and just goes, this is a good photo. This is a good photo. [00:12:11] Speaker A: I can, I can comment on it because we tried it. So we, we actually used for a little while an AI. AI whatever it is, an auto editing thing. Basically all it did was we fed 5,000 finished wedding photos into it from probably 10 or 15 weddings. We use a pretty simple editing style anyway. Like essentially, basically one, one preset across the day and then edit all the photos individually to taste. But we weren't like, oh, this preset for this photo and that preset for that photo. It was like we want the same look, essentially like shooting the same film for an entire wedding. Like we don't want it to be jumping, you know, from one look to another. So that was pretty simple. And then this software would sort of. Basically all it really did was adjust the exposure and white balance automatically pretty much. It didn't really even adjust much else. I think it tried to set blackpoint. It seemed to do that reasonably well. And then we would start from there and edit. But then they had this feature which was like an auto culling feature, an auto rating feature that it would cull and rate your photos. We gave it a try and it's exactly like you're saying, Brent, where it's. We had to go back through anyway because we were like, we would, you know, we might have been trying to get something that it thinks is a junk photo, but it was actually something we were trying to do at the Time. Maybe it was just a funny moment that's out of focus that we would deliver them anyway. Or like you say, eyes closed, but it's something that we want. Yeah. And it was just, it was a waste of time. We tried it and we were like, nah, we just have to look back through. Because I was like, I don't know what's not here that I want. Or, you know, like, I couldn't trust it anyway, that's for sure. [00:13:56] Speaker B: It's interesting, you know, you can actually, those platforms can extend to things like you can set them to crop and it will crop what it thinks you need in the image. You can set it to remove unwanted objects without you having to review it. [00:14:11] Speaker A: Like, it's quite scary. [00:14:12] Speaker B: It's quite powerful. That's quite scary. So, you know, you could, if you bug it up, it could remove the bride from every shot. [00:14:20] Speaker A: You know, I was going to say, what if, what if it developed a crush on the bride and started removing, moving the groom out of every shot because everyone found love. [00:14:28] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's argued with you, so it's potentially, you know, it's capable of emotion. So, yeah, Justin Brent, just for reference, Justin's had some classic arguments with his AI attempts. [00:14:41] Speaker A: One of my hobbies is just fighting with Chat gbt. I, I don't know, I find it therapeutic and also infuriating at the same time. But yeah, we get, we get stuck in some, some circular arguments. But I'm learning about it and I think it's learning from me too. [00:14:58] Speaker C: So I've never used Chat GT GTP and I tried to stop Adobe updates once features started to be introduced. You know what the bugs do? They just put nag screens up all the time telling you that the software is out of, out of date. And I'm just like, yeah, just. I'm happy to keep paying the subscription, but just on this version, just leave. [00:15:26] Speaker A: Me alone, I'll pay. [00:15:27] Speaker B: I wonder if it'll get to a point where they'll say, you can't use this version anymore, it's obsolete, you must upgrade. [00:15:34] Speaker A: Probably. [00:15:35] Speaker C: I did the same thing with Capture One. At a certain point there, I said, I don't any more updates. I just want to keep working with the system because I like the system I have that I think works well for me. So no, the cameras I use are cameras that work well for me. The software I use is a process that I like to use that I like the results from and I kind of don't want anything to get in the way of that process. I'm kind of process driven and I don't like the computer trying to work out what it thinks I would prefer. I want to make decisions, you know, over time sometimes, because sometimes those decisions, sometimes there's photographs that I don't like for maybe a few months or maybe a year because it's all about kind of calibrating the way you see the world. Your sensitivity around you, your sensitivity to trends in art and in photography. And I don't want to be told really quickly that one's bad, that one's good. I have some real kind of issues with that, with that automated kind of, you know, yes or no kind of response to things. So I, I kind of carefully make my way through things, I review things. I have this system because I work by myself these days in the studio. I rarely have an assistant. I have this system where I do like all the, a whole bunch of work the day before that my assistant would do. And then I come in the next day with fresh eyes as if I'm not like seeing the work before. And it's like, okay, now it's the photographer coming in to look rather than the assistant. Just so sort of long process of reviewing. Does that make any sense? [00:17:14] Speaker B: Like, absolutely. [00:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Sleep on it. [00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think there's a lot to gain from, like you said, perspective of the world changes. So on my first trip to Japan, I took about 7,000 images. I was only there for a week. I got a little trigger happy and I created some because I write blogs, my personal blogs, and I created some galleries and some stories around those images for my blogs and I published a few on socials and things like that. And you know, obviously I wasn't going to publish all 7,000 images because that would just be ludicrous. But even, even as recent as, you know, earlier this year when I started getting back into photography after a break and, and that was in 2015. So, you know, at some point, some points along the way, I've gone back into those images and I found images that, with older eyes and a wiser mind, I've seen something in them that I didn't see the first time that I edited and used those images. And I've often gone back into that catalog and seen something that I didn't see the two or three times before I looked at them or considered them, whereas AI probably would have discarded it because it wasn't one of my best images. [00:18:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And if you're working with more and more kind of memory, intense kind of, you got hundreds and Hundreds of things that are taking up volumes and volumes of hard drives. There's a point where you want to cull and delete and then you could lose that stuff. I have a kind of. I have this kind of way of thinking about things that I think I've learned over the last two decades of doing this. And that is that if you look at your shoot too early, you start to see the things that you as like. Like a bit of a photographer about it. You're not looking at it with any distance. You're looking at what you could have improved or what you made an error with, or you could have lit that a little bit better, or why did you choose that location? And. And then you get also, I think a little bit in this kind of try not to be too judgmental kind of technical photographer mode, where you're like, yeah, the light could have been better. You know, the exposure is not right, the contrast ratio is not right. And I think at that point you're really not seeing the images what they are, and you need some distance to pull back and go, what is the. Because the most. My favorite part of photography is the emotion or the sensitivity feeling in the picture, not whether I got the kind of lighting correct, you know. [00:19:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's genre specific, that stuff too, because, you know, I marvel at Justin. Justin's an incredibly technical photographer. He explains things to me that I have no knowledge of, you know, especially when it comes to using flash and, you know, freezing motion and. And it. And he has that technical knowledge. And often, obviously when he's doing shoots with people, sometimes the deadline, especially if their businesses is quite quick, you know, because often everything's late. That. I mean, I'm speaking for you, Justin, but I think. [00:20:27] Speaker C: Justin, tell us all how quick the deadlines are. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Yeah. How quick is it look? [00:20:33] Speaker A: Not. It's not always quick. Definitely not. What. What's probably often quick is the pace to work with. Because I. If I do commercial shoots, they're often not us. What I would consider in my mind, I don't know what you call them because I'm not. I'm not an actual commercial photographer. But they're not styled shoots. We don't use, we don't plan. It's literally like, hey, we're running this rescue training today. We want you to get shots from it. And then I put on like breathing apparatus gear and stuff and get in a smoky grain silo and take photos. And, you know, I can't control anything. I can't stop anything or start anything or Whatever. Just try not to get hurt. So it's more stressful. No, it's the best. You know what's stressful? Making decisions. Just being. Making creative decisions is stressful. Just getting put in the environment and being like, well, this is what I got to work with. Which is what weddings were like for me most of the time. Other than, you know, the port, that portrait part of the day where you, where you, you know, work with the couple and stuff. Other than that, it's like, hey, hands off. This is what we got to work with. You know, let's capture it. And that's, that's the way I prefer to work. And when I've got full control, it stresses me out more than when I've got not much control at all. And I can just. I can control what my space, you know, working within the. Anyway, I don't know if I'm probably getting off topic what Greg was getting at, but. But that's. Yeah, I work fast in that regard. So if it's like, hey, I got to set up lighting, it's like it's got to be done quick and close enough rather than finessed to perfection. So, you know what I mean? [00:22:13] Speaker C: They're expecting you to, to like have proofs up the next day or only very rarely. [00:22:20] Speaker A: Very rarely. But even then, sometimes, yeah, if I do. Sometimes. [00:22:23] Speaker B: You and Jim would do sneak peek for weddings. You'd say, oh, yeah, the client. 20 images that you've just scraped off the top that you think are worth them getting excited about. [00:22:33] Speaker A: Yeah, we didn't. Okay. The most stressful thing we did. You'll probably laugh at this, Brent. We used to. For a while, Jim and I were in a. Before I tell this story because Jim's in the chat, so there's a few good mornings in the chat. The chat's been quiet while we've been getting started, but. So Jim says. Good morning. Morning, Jim. Morning, Philip Johnson. Good to see you. Morning, Yelena. I hope your wrist is feeling. [00:22:58] Speaker B: Morning, guys. [00:22:59] Speaker A: Elena dislocated her wrist on the weekend. [00:23:01] Speaker B: And had surgery, yet still continued to finish her run. [00:23:05] Speaker A: Still. Still finished a 21km run. And he's a kid and. Good morning, Tony. I'll hold off on Rick's comment until we get back to talking about AI. Anyway, so we used to. When, when. So Jim and I started shooting weddings and we would shoot either together or separate, depending on what the clients wanted. But sometimes we were shooting together and that was our sort of big special package where we'd get more images and do an Amazing job. And I had this idea of. Of wowing everybody that I heard from. Another photographer, I can't remember which one it was, might have been James Day, the wedding photographer, or someone like that, of making a little handmade album on the night to give to them at about 9 or 10pm with printed photos. That was the fastest and most stressful turnaround that we've done because we'd be so the client. This is the worst part. They didn't know because it was a special surprise from us. So one of us had to be sneaking away to try and put this album together without them being like, where's our other photographer gone? Like, we paid for two. Why is there only one kicking around? So usually it would be while we're eating and trying to be like, passing it off as like, oh, Jim's just gone to the toilet or something like that. But instead he's actually out. Out in the car trying to, you know, pick, you know, so try and pick 12 photos from. From the day and print them in a very, very short amount of time. That was the dumbest thing we've probably ever done, and people loved it. And I think that was probably one of the keys to our business being successful. [00:24:47] Speaker C: You were there for quiet. That's great. [00:24:49] Speaker A: Yeah. But yeah, we. We did end up stopping because we were like, if there is any chance that we're not delivering the best service because of this, we shouldn't do it anymore. [00:25:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:03] Speaker A: You know what I mean? As in, like, if we missed a photo of. Of Auntie, someone on the dance floor or something like that. Because we're preoccupied. We're probably not. Maybe we're doing this for us and not for them. You know what I mean? [00:25:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:18] Speaker C: You needed another person, Justin, in the truck. You needed a little minivan out the back, like a broadcast unit. And they were just. [00:25:25] Speaker B: With a print lab and. [00:25:26] Speaker C: That's right. And you were just like WI fi. And the pictures across as you're shooting them and they were just like. [00:25:35] Speaker B: On the night. [00:25:36] Speaker A: That would have been wonderful. I actually think James Day or someone did that with an. Because he was. I'm pretty sure he was the guy that we. That sort of said he's done it before or whatever and. But I think he used to do it with Fuji Instax photos or something like that. I don't know. Anyway, we thought, I've done that at. [00:25:53] Speaker C: A level up those photos. Put them in a little box. [00:25:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, something like that. But we were using like a Canon selfie printer and. And which is not great quality, but good enough. [00:26:05] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's good enough for the day. [00:26:07] Speaker A: Yeah. But James Day, I think teamed up with an album brand as like a special thing one day just to try and did a full album, like a 12 by 12 or whatever. So they were out in the. They had like their equipment there or something. I don't know how they did it, I can't remember. But it was. That's pretty insane. [00:26:26] Speaker B: Jimbo's jumped in the comments. James Day, same day album. [00:26:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh yeah. For his brother in law. Yeah. [00:26:33] Speaker C: Beautiful. [00:26:34] Speaker A: Flew in the other people. Yeah. Anyway, so that's. That's probably the craziest deadline turnaround. But yeah, for other stuff it's, it's. Yeah. Maybe at the most it's like, hey, we need these the next day. A lot of my mountain bike stuff, I shoot mountain bike reviews as well. And if there's a, like an embargo date for the review and, and we had to do the shoot very late, they'll need imagery and footage pretty fast. But that's never that stressful. So. Yeah, it's not, nothing too crazy. [00:27:02] Speaker C: This kind of brings me back to that film idea. I think that one of the things I loved about film was the time frame to kind of. To separate you from the shoot. Because I often feel that the shoot is a high energy event with usually very positive good feeling event. And you get excited about certain pictures for whatever the energy is like in the moment. But when you look at them later and you're trying to slot them into say an editorial thing or a website kind of look, often the photos you are most excited about on the day are not the ones that make the cut. And so I, I still think that bit of time and then putting it into a new context always improves the end result. That has been my experience. [00:27:47] Speaker B: I've also changed it. Sorry, Brent, you're gone. [00:27:50] Speaker C: No, I was gonna say. I've also usually found that other people's input from people that you really kind of respect usually improves the final result as well. [00:28:01] Speaker B: It's not just a commercial. So I just want to add to that, Brent. It's not just a commercial or you know, it's not just paid gigs that I think that that's a good process for, you know, like you. I shoot street as a bit of a hobby and travel and I run some photo walks. I ran one last week for the Knox Photo Group here in Victoria. Had about 25 photographers and at the start of the walk, before we even, you know, set off, I kind of laid Some ground rules, set some challenges, but also said to them, I don't want any of you, I don't want to see any of you looking at your, at your LCD after you've taken the shots. You know, I just want you guys to focus purely on the experience, purely on the joy of photography, the composition. Where's the light falling? Let's just keep it really simple. And, and I said leave your photos until tomorrow, you know, and then go back and find delight and joy in that experience. And I think there's a lot to be said for, you know, often and, and I've been guilty of this before. I've gone to a, to an event with a group of people. It might not have been like a wedding or anything. It might just been a photo walk or something. And then that night I've stayed up all night going through my photos, editing them. And then the next morning kind of it's done, I'm over it, you know, but I think there's, there's something to be said there for just sort of parking it and coming back to it in a day or two and sort of going through that experience with the, the added benefit of a bit of space and time. And I think you see things very differently. [00:29:29] Speaker C: So, Greg, that's exactly my portrait process, my post production portrait process is a shoot. If I'm doing a, like a portrait in my studio, that's a kind of hour and a half job of working carefully to make two portraits. And then I will not look at it the next day and I will look at it again a day after so that I've removed myself from what I was thinking during the shoot and I'm just looking at the pictures now. That's. This is one of my ways of working. [00:30:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I think, I think this, it doesn't work for everybody but, and a lot of people objected on the walk. Like a lot of people were really scared about not checking every photo because that's what they've always done. And a lot of these people weren't street photographers. They were birders, landscape, wildlife, or mostly OM system shooters. So they just kept wanting to check their, their, you know, their shot. And I'm like, no, no, no, trust in the camera, trust in your skills. You know, the camera's pretty much doing it for you anyway. So. [00:30:35] Speaker C: Yeah. Hey, can we talk about AI for a minute? Is that okay? [00:30:38] Speaker B: Yes, well, yes. [00:30:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Actually, should I bring up, I'll bring up Rick's comment from before and just see whether that hits on anything you're going to bring up and otherwise you can just go wherever you want to go with it. But Rick Nelson says, I feel AI is good for fast turnaround time frames to help sort images. Clients want fast while having more time to analyze and create images. To see the works we made is more of. More of the artist inside us. [00:31:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Interesting, Interesting. [00:31:05] Speaker C: What I was going to say, I think. I think that alludes. I think there's something in what he's saying. There is. I think AI is going to improve photography or it's going to improve photographers and their work. Because I think we're currently in the kind of swamp of digital, like the massive ocean of digital photography. And I think what AI will probably do is it will sort of take the swamp and then you'll have these people on islands who will be photographers and they will probably have a fantastic voice, a fantastic ability to make really interesting images that have a unique kind of authenticity about them. And I think we will start to see photographers emerge from the swamp who will be kind of a bit like, I guess it was in the, you know, 60s and 70s and where you had an 80s where you had these photographers come through who were kind of legendary. I think we'll get back to a point where we are going to see sort of legendary photographers emerge and there won't be this kind of. I mean, I don't know, there won't be like 10,000 professional photographers in Melbourne. There'll be kind of like 10,000 content creators in Melbourne and there'll be like, I don't know, half a dozen great photographers in Melbourne that people will really respect. I think that's just my take, is what will happen once people are looking for people who can make authentic and really kind of strong, amazing pictures. And I think brands will pick up on those people and we'll go, we want this photographer to shoot this campaign, which they already do, but they will. It will become more kind of elite, premium, more premium. And they will really associate with those photographers in a bigger way than they do now. It's already happening. [00:32:55] Speaker A: But that's super interesting. I. I never. [00:32:58] Speaker B: Interesting point. [00:32:59] Speaker A: Thought about it this way and I could be completely wrong because I'm not big on photographic history or anything, so maybe, maybe someone in the chat who knows their photography history will school me. But do you think when. So. So leica made a 35 millimeter camera and then that evolved into cameras that average people could purchase, point and shoot, drop the film off at a local photo lab, did that? Do you think that transition from when photography was very, very exclusive to a photographer that basically had to do the entire process with their hood over their head and the big gunpowder flash thing and, you know, that level of photographer, then the technology evolved to a point where every household had their own camera and they could just drop film off and get it picked up in an hour at a random lab. Is that in a similar way what's happening now where almost everyone can take a great picture with their phone and AI and whatever, but out of, out of that evolution with the 35 millimeter film, like you say in 60s, 70s, 80s, there was still even. No, anyone could get those cameras and take essentially the same photos. There was still this birth of amazing photographers and artists that used the same, you know, technology and equipment. Is there any kind of parallel there to what's happening now? Or is it. Is it. Am I completely off base? [00:34:44] Speaker C: I'm not really sure if I. Justin, but I think the point that I took from what you're saying is I don't think even with the amazing technology we have now, I don't think people are making necessarily great photos. I think a great photo is something else. You know, so if they're like, right now there's like, I don't know, 10 million photos on Instagram like this at this moment, there's probably like only, I don't know, three or four great photos. You know, I think great photos are actually really, really hard to make. And I think that what we will. Well, this is what I'm based that idea on before, is that people who can make truly great photos will become. There'll be more of those and there'll be less of people who can just make a bunch of good photos. [00:35:34] Speaker B: I tend to agree. I think there will be that evolution. But I think in the interim, at least in the short term, there's going to be a fair bit of pain amongst the photography community in terms of employment and people being underwritten for jobs. People that can deliver, you know, weddings cheaper because, you know, they're going to get AI to clean it all up and they don't need to have a second shooter and they don't need to have, you know, they can make as many mistakes as they want. They can remove people from the wedding party. They can, you know, remove the bins that appear in the background. They can, you know, there's. I think there's. It's going to get dirty for a little while because at the moment it's. It's relatively unregulated. Okay. And what we see is the software that's now coming out. And I've talked about this before and I've been asked to write reviews about it, which I've refused because it's that sort of technology that with text prompts you can create an image that is almost realistic, it's hyper realistic, which makes it unrealistic, I think, but that can be realistic. And all you need is a selfie or a headshot of that person and the AI will do the rest. And we've talked about this where it's happened here in Victoria at a private school where they use an AI text to image prompts software and they've put female students and teachers, faces and likenesses onto the heads of, you know, people in lingerie and people in fake porn. And you know, there's that element of it that's, that's dirty. And you know, these, and these brands are online now promoting this software. And a lot of them, their taglines will be, you no longer need a photographer, you know, so I think there's going to be a bit of mud thrown to begin with before that evolutionary stage of everyone can take a photo or text to create one. But only great photographers stand out from the pack. [00:37:34] Speaker C: Yeah, look, I think that, I think it's always like the last 20 years have been hard for photographers, especially the last 10 years been very hard for photographers to make a living. And I think the technology will just be what the technology will be. And I think people will. Some people will use it and use it really, really well. Other people will tire of it and look for, I use that word again, authenticity. And I think I see it now like, I see that brands were happy to use AI for kind of certain things, but when they want something that is like a standout kind of campaign, they want someone that they can stand behind and that they can show that they're bigger and better than their automation. And I think that will, I think that'll prevail. I just think that a lot of photographers will become graphic artists maybe like they will algorithms and create images that they. That partly uses a camera, partly uses a computer. But I think the really amazing people will be doing everything with their eye and with their camera. And I think cameras will probably get a little simpler if they're not simple enough already. That's my feeling. [00:38:59] Speaker A: I love that. And that sort of. We've talked about this on many shows recently, but I love the idea of, of also the content authorization which a few other camera brands. Have you heard anything about that, Brent? A few camera brands are Building, building it in Leica Fujifilm I think. [00:39:21] Speaker C: Tell me what this is. [00:39:23] Speaker A: It's essentially a way to verify that, that this is an image that was taken by this camera at this date and time like metadata but in a more secure, a more tamper, bible tamper proof way. So say for, for news and things like that. It's like hey, this photo was actually taken. This, this is a real photo. Yeah and it's still in the early days and there's more and more camera brands getting on board. Like Leica put it in their M11, it's their first camera to put it into and I think that is, it's a slow movement probably getting driven by one photographers but also brands going hey we don't, we don't want cameras to disappear. Like we don't want people to just, just AI photos. We want people to take photos. So how do we protect this. Yeah thing that, that you know so that it doesn't disappear. And I think their way of doing that is like we need people to have a way of saying this was really taken, this is a real photo, not a made like an AI photo. And that's, that's sort of where it's heading and it's in. Yeah, it's in a few camera bodies now and there's actually filtering, there's a governing body. [00:40:36] Speaker B: I can't remember, I don't have it off the top of my head but. [00:40:38] Speaker A: There'S a CIA I think. [00:40:40] Speaker B: Yeah it's, it's something like that and there's about 3,000 companies that have signed up to it. So it's not just camera companies, it's other companies that produce content, digital content and but Fujifilm signed up, I think they were first or one of the first to sign up from a camera brand with the X100VI at the start of last year and then they've moved it on to other flagship like the GFX range and things like that. But yeah it basically safe, it's a safeguard and I think you're right Justin. It's a means of the camera brand saying hey, we need our photographers to be able to say, confidently say this is a real photo and we need clients to be able to confidently see that it is a real photo. So yeah, yeah here it is here. [00:41:24] Speaker A: So content authenticity initiative and yeah it essentially allows any of these companies to kind of use that same system to create an authenticity, a unique authenticity identifier around whatever it is that that's being created in that system. [00:41:50] Speaker C: So I guess providence kind of thing is a good thing. Like, I probably support that. Overall. I, Yeah, I think that's great. I, I just like letting things roll in terms of AI will be what AI will be. Photography will be what photography will be. And I kind of always trust myself that, you know, where I sit with it is true to what I care about, you know. And I, I still have perhaps an old fashioned view. Not as old fashioned as using analog. I didn't make it put down analog. I love. [00:42:26] Speaker B: No, no, it didn't come across. [00:42:27] Speaker A: It arrived. It arrived. [00:42:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:31] Speaker A: I'll unbox this soon. [00:42:32] Speaker C: Right, but. [00:42:33] Speaker B: All right, we'll get to that. [00:42:35] Speaker C: It's just that I lost my train of thought because like I felt the gods of coming after me. That's right. But it's just that things do change and it's where you as an artist work with the change and accept the change, you know, do. And you'll make great out. You'll make great art out of AI. You'll make great art out of large format film photography. Like they'll exist and then people will choose what they prefer. [00:43:05] Speaker B: Well, it's just another tool, isn't it? It's like the tradie going from a hammer to a nail gun. It's. It's just, it's just another tool in the arsenal of photographers that you can either choose to use or you can stick with the hammer. Like it really doesn't matter. It's up to you. What works for you. [00:43:23] Speaker C: Well, it's. [00:43:24] Speaker B: I'm simplifying it very, very much so. But I want to jump to some comments in the chat. So Karen Mack or Cason Mac. Sorry, sorry. Casein. How's things, lads? Hi. From Dublin, Ireland. [00:43:38] Speaker A: I think you're our first Irish listener in the live chat. Very cool. Good to see you. [00:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah. What else? [00:43:45] Speaker A: Yeah. What time is it? Yeah, let me find it. [00:43:49] Speaker B: While you're doing that. [00:43:50] Speaker A: Let us know. [00:43:51] Speaker B: Rick Nelson, always a champ in the comments. Kodak began the process to what we have now. If everyone has a camera. It's very true. I feel you were close though, as AI photos need photographers to learn and create. Yeah. They don't. They don't master it on their own necessarily. [00:44:07] Speaker A: Oh, speaking of which, you, Brent, you should see. So I asked Chat GPT to make some photography jokes and it sucks at comedy. It's. It doesn't understand jokes. It just tries to do puns. They're terrible. [00:44:20] Speaker B: But it was arrogant about it. [00:44:21] Speaker A: It was not. Well, no. So I was like, these aren't funny. These aren't funny. And eventually it hit on one where it really seemed to find its stride about AI and photography. And I was like, wow, do some more like that. And it just laid into photographers like. [00:44:39] Speaker B: Like, yeah, it even had hashtag sorry. [00:44:42] Speaker A: Not sorry and yeah, making jokes, you know, I can't even remember that was so bad. Like basically saying one of the jokes, the punchline was AI's already scraped all the photos in the world and remade your portfolio bigger and better or something like that. Ha. I was like, yeah, it was a bit scary. It was a bit scary. It's pretty confident in its photography abilities. [00:45:12] Speaker B: Right, another comment here from Paul. With AI, you won't need a wedding photographer, food, dress or audience because you'll just be able to have an AI wedding. I won't have to go. Even the bride and groom can just AI attend into. Sure about AI food though. I'm not sure about AI food though. It might be a bit bland. [00:45:35] Speaker C: I think the super. Sorry. [00:45:39] Speaker B: Let me just get through these quickly then we'll jump Cason. I've been watching Justin's page about this is a separate topic but pages about the R5 Mark II. So for any of you, I don't know, there's a bunch of clips and videos on our channel about Justin when he got the A. The R5 Mark II and doing some comparisons with the original R5 as well as the R3, which is really interesting. So jump on there. [00:46:05] Speaker A: Yeah, if you, if you R5 mark. Oh, it does have AI in it. Yeah, sort of. It says it's got a deep neural learning network which I haven't played with really at all. The image upscaling and stuff because it's, it's got plenty of res for me. But what are my thoughts? I mean you probably would have seen from the videos, but it's, it's the best all around camera that Canon currently make and yeah, you won't, you can't. If you're already a Canon shooter, you can't go wrong if you're comparing it with the Z8 and other similar cameras from other brands. I mean they're all, they've all got their subtle differences and stuff, but they're all amazing at this stage. Sony Nikon Canon for like a full frame that, that high resolution. I guess what you would call one step down from the flagship camera. Yeah, yeah. So. But you won't, you won't go wrong with it. It's. It's way faster than the R5 was for sports, autofocus and that kind of stuff. Video is more Robust. There's like better log settings, there's better codecs, more options for codecs and stuff like that. It doesn't overheat as fast. It's just, it's an all round better camera and you'll love it, especially if you shoot hybrid photo and video. It's. Yeah, it's one of the best things that you can get as an all rounder. Love it. Enjoy. [00:47:21] Speaker B: Very cool. And just to follow up. [00:47:23] Speaker A: Oh yeah, Got rid of the R6. [00:47:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Got rid of the R6. [00:47:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. What's new? A lot's new. You'll, you'll have a ball. [00:47:31] Speaker B: Yeah, an absolute ball. It is an interesting point that you made Justin, about these incremental increases that we see in camera brands, you know, and I've often given that I review and report on most of the new releases and all that sort of thing. It is interesting saying that, you know, you look at the, the Sony range and I have genuine trouble telling them apart as to what's for what because they all seem to be quite high spec, highly capable, powerful cameras. And I know that there's some that are video centric and some that are photography and some that are hybrid. But I think what stood out this week, we talked about this briefly on Monday night was that new Sigma BF full frame camera because it's like unlike anything that we've seen recently. And I called it first on the show, I said it's got this sort of applesque vibe to it. And now all of the news stories are about how Sigma have revealed a Canon, sorry, Apple inspired full frame camera. [00:48:31] Speaker A: Have you seen that camera at all, Brent? [00:48:34] Speaker C: No, I haven't. I don't really look at the camp. I look at, I look at a lot of photography and I look at a lot of art but I don't look much at cameras. [00:48:45] Speaker A: Well, from an art perspective and a design perspective, I'd be interested to see what you think of this camera. [00:48:51] Speaker C: Right. Are you going to show hot shoe? [00:48:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Can you see it on the screen there? [00:48:55] Speaker C: It's low. It's just slowly loading here. [00:48:57] Speaker A: Oh, sorry, yeah. Internet. [00:49:00] Speaker C: Here it is. Oh, it's very minimal. Look at that. [00:49:05] Speaker B: Yeah, well no, no, that's a, it's a, it's a L mount and they've just released. So it's a full frame. It's like a 40. No. What is it? And I've got the News release here. [00:49:19] Speaker A: 24. 24. 26 megapixel. Yeah. And unibody machined aluminum, single block of. [00:49:27] Speaker B: Aluminum, like a MacBook. But the thing with this, so it's available in silver and black and Sigma have gone and re release or renewed they say 9 of their prime fast prime lenses in the new silver color and in a new black color. So they're already in black, but they've released a new black color just to match with this camera, which is interesting. I thought they would have made the color the camera match the existing nine lenses but they, they went and re. They went and did 12 new lenses essentially for this camera. No more than that. 9. 18. Sorry, my maths is off. Anyway, it records 6k 30p. It's quite an interesting little design and it, we talked about simplifying photography and all those sort of things. This, this really strips it back even more minimal than I think Leica have achieved in the past. You know, there's no hot shoe. There's like six buttons I think in total. The top plate only has a shutter button and, and it's built in memory. You can't upgrade the memory. It's what we say it was 256 gig. [00:50:38] Speaker A: Yeah, 230 gig or something like that. [00:50:39] Speaker B: But yeah, built in memory. It's really paring back what we see in these minimal increases in digital cameras and it's gone for something completely new. And I think because of that it might actually do really well. [00:50:54] Speaker A: It's. It's interesting Brent too because you mentioned earlier that cameras might become, did you say, not less capable but like as in, as, as this. If you see this evolution out of the, out of the swamp, cameras might become what more. [00:51:13] Speaker C: The camera might just take control of the process rather than. So the photographer just picks them. [00:51:19] Speaker A: Okay. [00:51:21] Speaker C: I like to wrestle with my tools a little bit. I think kind of great moments come out of pushing the edges of things a little bit. Sometimes a bit like a guitarist might, you know, have a guitar that's not the perfect instrument, but just gives that little of like. I've got to push it a bit harder here to get something because I usually find the best art is not perfect. Right. It has to have elements in there that are either human or not quite. Not quite technically correct. You know, like when photography kind of websites have all those graphs about lenses and things and it's like it doesn't quite meet the criteria up here. I'm just like, gosh, yeah, such a waste of time you've taken with it, you know. [00:52:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:10] Speaker A: Mtf. What was the experience? [00:52:12] Speaker B: What was. Yeah, what was the experience? Like it. So the thing with, with the concept of cameras taking over decision Making for us is that you, you stop learning. And you mentioned wrestling with your camera and pushing your gear and sometimes we push it too far or we're just not ready for the shot, especially in street. And you take the shot and you realize you had your ISO completely wrong or you, you know, something happened and you, so you learn from that and you embed process in your approach to photography. Whereas if a camera does all the thinking for you, you start to lose sight of, of what's important. And I noticed this when I run photo groups and workshops that people that have spent, you know, $6,000 on a camera body and, and three and a half on a lens walk up to me and say, what ISO should I set it at? It's like, well, you should have considered that before you even bought the camera. You should know that you should have tried every ISO setting in a situation. Like you shouldn't. [00:53:11] Speaker C: Don't most younger photographers just ISO these days? [00:53:14] Speaker B: I think that's, I'm not talking about younger photographers. Yeah. I'm talking about, you know, more sort of middle aged to retiree, have some disposable income, which is great. And they're taking up a craft, which is wonderful. But I think there's a gap in learning around, you know, understanding exposure triangle, understanding compositional values. And they get so caught up in peeking at their photos and playing the settings that they're just not shooting. And learning like we did in the film days is shooting and learning from that mistake and going, okay, well according to my notes, I had this at you know, whatever aperture and whatever shutter speed when I was shooting film, I'd keep a notebook. And so I learned from that process as to what the outcomes were. But if the more that the camera does it for you, yes, it's a tool and it simplifies a process. But sometimes it can lead you to be a little bit dumb about what you actually need to achieve in photography. [00:54:10] Speaker C: Yeah, maybe I, I quite like buttons. That's one thing I like rather than menu. [00:54:16] Speaker A: Oh yeah, that is, that is one of the, when you, when you can't set something up the way you want to set it up, that's one of my big I, I, yeah, I love customizable button. I want everything as much as possible to not have to go through a. [00:54:28] Speaker B: Menu because when you, when you're in the heat of the moment, the menu is the most frustrating. Doesn't matter how good a menu it is, you cannot see what you're looking for. Yeah, that's exactly right. [00:54:37] Speaker C: Like if you're trying to find a photo on your phone to show someone under pressure. You can't find the photo and it's right there in front of you. That's what a menu is like on the back of your camera when you're under pressure. And I can't imagine having to go through a menu to set something that was as simple as what, you know, aperture I'm using or what shutter speed I'm using. It would drive me bonkers. [00:54:58] Speaker A: This is probably a good chance to ask what, what I do also want to ask about your portrait sessions because that, that fascinates me. What you mentioned before with the process of a one and a half hour portrait session. But before, what camera do you use or cameras. When you say you sort of prefer buttons and things, what's your weapon of choice these days? [00:55:20] Speaker C: Okay, I use two systems for all my commercial work and professional work. I use a Nikon and I use D850s which I think like, you know, I'd love it. I think the Z8 is a great camera. Right. But I like an optical viewfinder in the studio. So that's a really important thing to me. Also the D850 is like the top of all the engineering that ever went into digital DSLRs. Right. But you are spicella being trouble that they're still adjusting. And it is a beautiful, beautiful camera to hold all the buttons are in exactly the right place. For me it's not particularly heavy, but it's robust. I really like. And they're probably. I don't even know. I'm sure they still make them and they're probably not. I don't know, but they may be like $4,000, maybe less. [00:56:23] Speaker A: Yeah, you can get a used one these days probably with a few, few clicks on the shutter. But I saw used ones kicking around for 1500 bucks and it's like for that you are a professional photographer for. Well, obviously skills. Skills. Not, not including skills. $1,500 and then, and then a couple of used F mount lenses and you're off to the races with. With one of the greatest cameras. Like image quality wise, it's still exactly as good as the Z8. The Z8 is no. Takes no nicer image. You know, like it's. It's so good. It is so good. It's probably the only thing that would make you sort of want to move across faster is if you want to shoot video. [00:57:05] Speaker C: That's a big difference. Yeah, yeah. I got a lot of opinions about that because I was a filmmaker a long time ago. And video. Well, I'll get to that later. Let's talk about what I'm talking about first. [00:57:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So D850 for all. Everything, all commercial work, all portrait. What lenses do you go to on that? [00:57:24] Speaker C: Okay, so the. The lens I use most of the time, and definitely the lens that is my favorite portrait lens, and this will be controversial, is a. A 58 mil, 1.4. [00:57:38] Speaker A: How good? [00:57:39] Speaker C: I think that is the best lens that Nikon's ever made. And I. I mean, I also want to shoot a portrait where I am in that kind of space with the person. I don't want to be standing, like, three meters back. You know, I want to be within a kind of four or five meters back. I want to be kind of in a couple meters of the person and working with them and building a level of intimacy and a level of trust. So I call it false intimacy and a level of trust where we can work that close and you can really sort of feel like the photograph is so much more. There's so much more about the person in that zone. So that's an incredible lens. And now that people are all going towards these mirrorless cameras, like, that lens is just going to kind of disappear. [00:58:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I can't. They're not that easy to find, though. I was actually on the hunt for one in the last week because I sold mine and Jim sold his. We. I shot a whole wedding on that lens. [00:58:39] Speaker C: That was a whole day. [00:58:41] Speaker A: I shot a whole day on it. It's. The only issue is, with. It is it's a little soft, wide open, but I would usually use it if I was looking for sort of a fairly narrow depth of field. I'd probably use it around F2, F 2.2. That was kind of my, like, sweet spot for where I was. I was happy with the sharpness, but it still had kind of that beautiful character about it. And, yeah, Jim had one as well, and we just used it. So, yeah, exactly what you said before. 58 is a great lens. It definitely takes some finessing to get it working properly or to, you know, you don't. It's not just a. You just shoot it wide open and get these, like, beautiful. You know, like the Sigma lenses and stuff like that, where it's, like. It's sharp, but it's wide open, and there you go. Just use it like that. It was more. It was more than that. [00:59:31] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's very good at wide open. Like you were saying before, Dustin, I actually don't think it's made to be a wide open lens. [00:59:38] Speaker A: No. [00:59:39] Speaker C: Like, it works beautifully in that 5.6 F8 kind of zone, which is what most of my studio work is photographing it. [00:59:47] Speaker B: Right. [00:59:47] Speaker C: And it is absolutely extraordinary the way it renders things. I can't quite get over it. [00:59:53] Speaker B: So that's. [00:59:54] Speaker C: That's my favorite lens. I also use that. Also use a. A 17 to 32.8, which I've had in my kit for like 20 years. I've had two of them over the time because I break them every now and then. Which is an amazing lens to use as well. Really robust. I'm not even sure if they make those anymore. And I used to always carry a 7202.8, but I've recently changed that to a 7200 F4 because it's smaller. Smaller and lighter. That's the lens I use the least. I only have that in my bag because I still shoot some kind of legacy events. And you've just got to have that kind of zoom in your kit. You can't shoot someone on stage with your. Well, you can because I think creatively you can do anything with what you've got. But I could do the whole thing, I think. But you do like, it is good to have clients want some close ups. That's what I'm. [01:00:50] Speaker A: If they want this and they're on stage, you probably don't want to be just creeping onto the stage with your 58 to get the, to get the headshot during their talk or whatever while they're accepting their award. [01:01:01] Speaker C: So that's my Nikon kit. Yeah. Plus some, you know, whatever else. Speed lights and stuff. [01:01:06] Speaker A: Well, that's what I was going to ask about as far as lighting systems go. What are you using in terms of lighting systems? [01:01:15] Speaker C: In my studio, everyone will understand this. I use two Bowens 400 lights that I've had for like more than 10 years, which have dials on them. They have dials on them because I do not want to deal with the menu. And all I do is when I'm working is I go little half a stop up, half a stop back, half a stop up, half stop back, three stops back. And then it's much better than going, you know, on the top of the camera. Where do I want to be? So they're my go to's in the studio. But I'm a one light shooter. I have two of them, but I just use one when I'm working in the studio. I really pair everything back Almost street photography is paired back. All my portrait work is paired back. But having just said all that commercially when I'm out and about, I carry a Godox ad. 300 to 300. Is it around here somewhere? I think it's, it's the bigger one but it's not the really heavy one. [01:02:13] Speaker A: Not the really big one? Yeah, not the really. [01:02:15] Speaker C: It's a bit heavy. So I carry that around and I love that. [01:02:20] Speaker A: Can't go wrong with Godoxes for location lighting. They're killer. [01:02:25] Speaker C: Unbelievable. I, if I had to get rid of my Bowens I would probably buy the bigger battery powered Godox for the studio and work with that. And I, I still use the old Godox controller that is a little bit less screen based for the same. [01:02:40] Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah. [01:02:41] Speaker C: So it still has. You don't have. It still has buttons on it. [01:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:46] Speaker C: Y. But then in the, in the street I use this thing which Fuji just don't want to upgrade which is the X Pro 2. Right. [01:02:56] Speaker B: Nice. Oh, now you're talking my language. [01:03:00] Speaker A: I would. [01:03:01] Speaker C: I think that is the. That is my walk around camera every single day. It's in my bag and I think that's one of the greatest cameras ever made. [01:03:09] Speaker B: What can I ask? Because I'm a Fuji shooter and I'm obviously a street photographer, I'm waiting to hear news about the X Pro 4 or the room at X Pro 5 that they'll just skip the generation. No, there's no rules. Everyone's. It's all rumors, it's all speculation. It's all rumor sites claiming that they have inside knowledge. But at the end of the day it's. There's only a handful at Fujifilm that actually know what's going to come out this year. I'm hoping for the. I love the XC4 so I'm hoping for an XC5 which is smaller than the X Pro. Similar kind of body form and, and styling but it's just lighter because the X Pro is a heavy camera. But what lens do you pair with that for your street. [01:03:51] Speaker C: No, I always say it's a 35 which is not. It's a 23 but it's a 35. [01:03:55] Speaker B: The F2. Ah, that's my favorite lens. My favorite Fuji lens. [01:04:01] Speaker C: That's an amazing camera and it's an amazing lens. So I am so disappointed there's not a kind of new version of that camera because there are things about this camera which I would like to be a little faster or a little bit more megapixels or Something like that. [01:04:16] Speaker B: The focus leaves a lot to be desired. [01:04:19] Speaker A: Tell us this performance. If you were in charge of the X Pro 4, if you were head of the development team, the product team, and you could just pull strings with the designers and product guys and make this happen, what would you do? What would you change and what would you keep? The same. [01:04:36] Speaker C: It'd be exactly the same camera with a better. Better LCD screen in the viewfinder and faster autofocus. Really? That's all I'd be maybe. And some more megapixels. [01:04:46] Speaker A: Okay. [01:04:47] Speaker C: I wouldn't do anything else, but, you know, because it's taken so long for anything to redevelop in there. Now I've looked at buying. What is it? The Nikon df. Right. [01:04:57] Speaker B: Which. [01:04:58] Speaker C: That's one alternative I looked at. Then I keep thinking, should I buy? Is it. What's the other Fuji one. Great. [01:05:02] Speaker B: The X X100 or the XT5 XT50? Well, I mean, the XT5 is actually a couple of years old now. The XT50 came out last year in the Fuji Global Summit in Sydney. Charlie Blevins, our friend, was part of that whole release. He works at Fujifilm. XT5 is a gorgeous flagship photography camera. It has everything. If you love Fuji cameras, you can't go wrong with an X T5. My concern with the X Pro and I think what's delayed either an X Pro 4 coming out or jumping to the X Pro 5 is that the X Pro 3 launch. I went to the launch event in Sydney and it wasn't long after the COVID hit. You know, it was. I think it was at the end of 2019. I might be wrong, but it was October. [01:05:50] Speaker A: October 2019. It got released. And then, yeah, so three months later. [01:05:54] Speaker B: The world, yeah, shut down. And, and, and so sales, they just didn't hit their sales numbers. Plus, the X Pro 3 came in three different body finishes or three different colors. Plus you could get the duratech scratch resistant. Like they already had the titanium, I think it was titanium or magnesium alloy top plate. So they were fancier and they were far more expensive than the two was the X Pro 2. And I think they're. They were bold. But unfortunately, COVID ruined those bold plans because all of a sudden no one was earning money. No one could go out and do photography. Stores were shutting like brick and mortar stores. Online stores were pretty feeble at that time. And so it just. It was just bad timing. And so I think for them to then Launch an X Pro 4 at the end of COVID I don't know that they would have, you know, they really needed to make some ground on the X Pro 3. They tooled up machinery. They'd, you know, they'd done the whole bit and they can't just scrap that and say, well that was a waste of money. They've got to, you know, do something with it. So I think that's where they focus more on the GFX stuff and they've stretched. [01:07:03] Speaker A: They've just stretched the timeline out for the X Pro 3 to try and make it worthwhile. [01:07:07] Speaker B: Yeah, because it makes no sense that such a popular camera range hasn't had an update in three and a half years when all the other features have moved to 40 megapixel X processor fives and the newer, the newer autofocus algorithms like it makes no sense. Not otherwise. [01:07:26] Speaker A: The X100 though, wouldn't that be very. A very similar camera, the current one, you know, it's. Isn't it a very similar lens, same focal length. [01:07:37] Speaker B: It's the same lens as the x, as the x100 mark v. So they didn't upgrade the lens, they upgraded the lens with the Mark 5 from the original. [01:07:46] Speaker A: As in compared to what Brent's shooting with now. Would the X100 be a possible replacement for that, that setup? If you were happy. [01:07:54] Speaker B: 23F2. [01:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:57] Speaker B: Built in ND filters. It's got the. It's got the IBIS. It's got so 5 axis image shift, a sensor shift IBIS. It's got. What else? It's got the 40 megapixel sensor, the X processor 5, the current algorithms. It was the first camera to have that content authentication for. [01:08:14] Speaker A: It's got the hybrid, the optical viewfinder hybrid thingy that the X Pro. [01:08:19] Speaker B: It's just compact. It's more compact and it's, you know, it's obviously targeting a different market. [01:08:28] Speaker A: Have you. [01:08:29] Speaker C: Hang on Dustin, what was that? [01:08:31] Speaker A: Have you looked into the X100 series at all as a possible replacement or you prefer the ability to swap lenses? [01:08:37] Speaker C: Well, I have a whole bunch of lenses for it too, so I like. Yeah. [01:08:41] Speaker B: No one says you have to get rid of your X Pro 2 though. [01:08:43] Speaker A: You could have both just buy more cameras. [01:08:47] Speaker C: I don't know if that's my vibe either, although I did do a little bit of. I have done. I am watching the Fuji kind of market a little bit and it does look like this GFX, what is it 100 is going to come out the. [01:08:58] Speaker A: Rangefinder one, which will only have a. [01:09:00] Speaker C: 35 mil equivalent fixed lens on it and they say it'll be the same, same body size as an X Pro 3 and it'll be 100 meters. [01:09:08] Speaker B: Oh, I haven't heard that yet. That's. [01:09:09] Speaker C: This is the talk at the moment. That's. [01:09:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:13] Speaker C: I don't know. [01:09:15] Speaker A: That could tempt you. [01:09:16] Speaker C: Could tempt me. [01:09:17] Speaker B: Well, it's tempting. Justin too. [01:09:19] Speaker C: They say it's going to be US$5,000 as well. [01:09:23] Speaker B: This is all rumor. This is all speculation. And you know the people that run. The person that runs Fuji Rumors is notorious for building hype for something that never eventuates because it drives clicks and ad sales to his website. [01:09:37] Speaker A: So yeah, it's also though, I never, never discount Greg. He. He gets cameras sometimes before the, the embargo release and he has to review them. So he might be like, oh, it's just a rumor. It's probably sitting. Yeah, he's got one in the hot room. [01:09:52] Speaker C: All right, let's talk about photography. Let's talk. [01:09:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Well, look, this, this bit, this first part might, this question might bore you a little bit, but for me I've, I've. Portrait photography has always been super interesting to me, but I'm not. I think. So you said your portrait sessions would last around an hour and a half or so. First of all, are they creative sessions for you or are they paid sessions or a mixture of both? Like what are your portrait sessions for? [01:10:24] Speaker C: Okay. In terms of making a living, I do headshots for creative people. They could be people who are artists, people who are classical singers, people who, photographers, you know, various things like that. And in those sessions I am looking to get. Well, what I offer people is that you'll get two headshots and each of those headshots will be of a standard. What I'm looking for for is something that will make people stop and look and want to know more about the person. So the idea is that it is not just a kind of corporate shot that could be anything, let's just say an AI driven thing. It is something that makes people scrolling or looking at a website go. Has a little bit of mystery in it, maybe a little bit of ambiguity in it, is maybe an off moment. And the idea is that that photograph will hold someone's attention for longer than a split second. And that is what I try to offer people. And I think for me, the process for me is that that takes around about an hour and a half to create those couple of photographs. It's because you need to kind of work together. It's a Collaborative thing. It's not a creative, collaborative thing. You're not reviewing images and going, what about this? What about that? It's a creative dance for you to both understand each other and to learn to trust each other enough in that kind of process that something mysterious and vulnerable and interesting will come out. It is not about making a photo that you can put on LinkedIn and just go, here I am, I sell real estate. You know. [01:12:14] Speaker A: Yeah, so what, what scares me about that process is as a photographer, is that filling that much time. I don't understand how. I think I would. I would take a lot of photos really fast and then not know what to do from there. You know what I mean? As in like 15 minutes, I will have taken a bunch of different, probably LinkedIn level standard photos. So talk me through how you evolve the shift shoot to get to there, to these images that you're searching for. How does it, how does it start? Do you start taking photos fairly quickly or do you talk to them for a while? I assume you've probably already chatted to them a fair bit prior to the shoot via email or whatever. Like, how does, how does it evolve into the point where you're starting to get the images that you're looking for? [01:13:07] Speaker C: All right, great question. I always ask people to send me the. The headshots they currently use and maybe to send me a couple of headshots of other photos they really like from maybe other people, whatever. And that just gives me a little bit of a reference point because I think. I think when photography is working at its absolute best is when there is an incredible amount of sensitivity on the part of the photographer to the subject, whether that's a packet of pasta or a person. But generally, if it's a person, I think that if you can really understand a kind of sense of what that thing is and really see it for what it is, you can always take the best photograph of it. If that's a car, you know, or a person, it doesn't really matter. But with a person, of course, it's a little bit different because there is emotions there, there are energies, there is. People are anxious. You know, no one likes necessarily having a portrait taken. It's a bit like going to the dentist, you know, it feels anxiety driven because a lot of people don't like the way they look. So there's a little bit of that, but there's not really much chat about that. That's just me kind of trying to go, oh, yeah, okay, I can see that. You know, that person sort of looks better from that side or one of their eyes is a bit bigger than the other one. I need to kind of consider that. But then when they come into the studio, I have a good sort of 15 minute, just chat about what they want to use the photo for, how we're going to do it, what the process is, and really just look at all the clothes they brought in. Because I asked people to bring in a series of different types of clothing because it's not that I want different looks for the photograph. It's just that I know the couple of great photographs we're going to get. We're going to hone that into a certain look because some clothes are going to look better than others. And if people just come in with, like, I love this shirt. I wear it all the time, that may not be the best look in the photograph. Because silhouette is a really major part of a great portrait. The shape of the garment that people are wearing. And so the first shirt they wear may not have a great silhouette and may not have a beautifully crisp collar. You know, you don't want a flat collar necessarily. Right. So I'm working through these things and, like, there. That's going to work. That's. That's. But I don't pull out the big gun straight away either. We spend after that, we start photographing just little bits. And I am trying to understand where I think the light and the shapes and the angles are working best with that person. And I'm only using one light. All right, that's it. And then they are trying to work out just what am I on about? [01:15:57] Speaker B: Oh, we've lost you there for a second. [01:15:59] Speaker C: What is he trying to. [01:16:01] Speaker A: We lost you just for one second. Yeah, sorry. We lost you just for a second. When you said we're trying to work out what is this guy on about? [01:16:09] Speaker B: Quiet. [01:16:10] Speaker C: But the person in front of me is trying to work out what I'm trying to do and I'm trying to work out. I'm trying to get that person. I'm trying to get to a point where that person kind of turns into an alien self, where they are no longer the person who walked in. They are now like this kind of extraordinarily kind of confident, beautiful person that feels very comfortable in front of the camera in the environment. And that comes at a certain point once you start to establish your kind of relationship in the space. And I find that I'm photographing not fast, but I'm photographing director camera, off camera. I'm looking for off moments and it doesn't have a rhythm. It's more of a. Like, I'm directing the whole time. Like, move your face here, look over there, come through here. We're stopping every 10 minutes. We're chatting about just general stuff. We might change clothes, but there's always a point over that hour and a half. And it usually comes somewhere kind of 40 minutes in where people say, it's in the zone. It's not like the zone, but you are currently, now outside of all the things that you're thinking about and you're just in this moment with the photographer and I'm just in this moment with the subject. And we are talking directly to each other, but we're not really saying much. But I am always directing. It's not. It's not a candid kind of environment. And what I'm looking for through that is what I talked about before. Something that has mystery, something that has shape, something that is kind of. Kind of people want to look at rather than just go, oh, yeah, that person. You know, there's a photo of that person. They look good. So we kind of work through that the whole time. And I find that almost one of the most wonderful kind of experiences with everyone I work with. I'm just like, this is so great. And I get really excited about it. [01:18:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's fair to say, Brent, that looking at. Looking at the images on your website, the portraits, and by the way, we'll put links to Brent's website and Instagram in the comments below so you can all. In the. In the description, so you can all check it out. But especially for our audio listeners, please take some time to look at Brent's website. And you are, you know, we are. I am seeing this mystery. I am seeing gorgeous shape, the use of negative space off moments where people are doing unusual things that aren't traditional. Portrait headshot, corporate headshot style, there's definitely emotion and there's Some have quite impressive movement in them. So, yeah, I encourage everyone to take a look because there's a lot to learn from. I mean, there's a lot to learn from every photographer, but there's a lot to learn from Brent's approach to portraiture and the outcomes. Just on that. [01:19:25] Speaker C: Justin. [01:19:27] Speaker A: No, go on. I think you were just. Yeah, the audio is just getting a little bit choppy, but I think your Internet's catching back up again, so go for it. [01:19:34] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, the bars are down. I don't want the photographs to be about the photographer. I really am quite critical of photographers who Kind of make their photographs more about the photographer and less about the subject. And I think you see that often with photography that's over lit or kind of tries to dazzle with a kind of high end concept. And I start to go, this is more about the photographer than the person who's in front of the camera. So I want as much as I possibly can, I want all my photos to really honor the subject. Even though we're working together on it. I don't want it to be like, look how amazing I am as a photographer. I want it to be, look how amazing that person is. As an ordinary person who's not a model in front of the camera. That's the kind of energy I want to get across. So just to give you some examples of people who have inspired me that I look at, which I think is important for people to kind of consider I'm really interested in kind of, well, I'll look at photography and art every day. But the people who I love to look at are photographers who work with a very similar style, which is just paring it down. So it's just about the subject and not about a whole lot of kind of bells and whistles. And the people who do that the best for me are usually in Europe. And it's a person called Roberto Frankenberg in Paris. If you look at his work, it is so straightforward and so gorgeous. A woman in Berlin called Valeria Mittelman, again, very similar style. Not trying to over egg the, put egg the omelette. Just very much about the people. These are the people I'm kind of looking at and going, wow, they are doing that. Look at that. All you need is one light and a person and yeah, the magic in just that. Don't bring too much more into it. All right, nice. [01:21:29] Speaker A: That's. Yeah, that's, that's amazing. It really helps because like I said, it's hard to. I think I would just shoot a ton of photos and not, not get deep enough into that process. I, I'd panic, you know what I mean? Like you've got this person sitting there waiting for you, the photographer to tell them something and to do something and to take photos. And it's like, I guess it probably just takes years of experience of, of settling down into this process and knowing that it's going to get deeper. Like you're only at the surface level right now. Like slow down. There's. You can't speed up the process to get to the, the juicy middle you have. You just have to work through it. [01:22:09] Speaker C: That is true. I mean, some photographers can probably just bang it out like in five minutes. I'm not that guy. There's a lot of banter, there's a lot of chat, there's a lot of asking. The best way to get people to relax, in my experience, is to listen to what, ask them questions about what they do and what, what. Whatever it is. And they start talking, talking. And then you kind of go, all right, I was going to take a few photos now. [01:22:34] Speaker B: And. [01:22:35] Speaker C: And you then go for small directions based on shapes. If you look at a lot of behind the scenes stuff of, like, photographers you like, if you can find it online, you'll also find that a lot of headshots are shot in small spaces. Not always great big production studios and people are often on unusual kind of things, are on apple crates, they're sitting on funny stools, they got their legs on a funny stool in front of them and they got their kind of a great posture here. And it's just about their face. But if you look at the behind the scenes, it's kind of an odd position that the person was standing in or sitting in. So you start to develop this idea that you just have to look at what. This is so important to photography. What is in the frame is the only thing that's important. Anything else that's in, that's outside of the frame is irrelevant. So if you have to twist someone's body to get into a certain shape to make them look amazing, that's fine as long as you're not hurting anyone because. Or it's not dangerous because it's not this kind of. You stand there and people look amazing. You have to really kind of twist and turn and find the angles in people. It doesn't all happen just because someone sits on a stool in front of you or someone stands in front of you and what's outside of the frame is completely irrelevant. It's only what's in the frame. Street photography is all about that too. What's in the frame. [01:23:56] Speaker A: Yeah, Very, very interesting. A couple. Two quick technical questions. Otherwise then I'd really like to talk about your street stuff, which I'm sure Greg is probably pretty keen to go through as well. But your. Do you shoot mostly on a tripod or handheld and do you shoot tethered or do you just use the screen on the back of the camera when you're working with your portrait clients? [01:24:19] Speaker C: All right. Never on a tripod, always handheld and always tethered to my desktop computer or my laptop computer. If I Have to be on a location. But usually I want to be in the studio here and I tether basically so that I can review occasional things every now and then. Because sometimes I want to review something but also because that just goes straight into the computer. I don't have to transfer anything. [01:24:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So just a better workflow and the ability to have a nice big image review when you need it. [01:24:50] Speaker C: Yeah. Also people kind of feel more comfortable that you can review. I don't get people to review things ever. But if I want to just point out something like, look at this shot, you look great. Because occasionally someone might need a bit of, you know, a boost. I can go. I can go straight to the screen and go, look at that. The hard thing is some people will look at the screen all the time from where they're sitting and I'm just like away from the screen. Just focus on the camera. If you're reviewing every single photograph, it slows the process down so much and it becomes way more self conscious. The best people to review a photograph would be an art director. Not the client, not the person you're having the photograph with. An art director could be viewing it and then talking to me. But the person you're photographing, they're not the one you want to have. They look at themselves much. They're not looking at it outside of that. [01:25:44] Speaker A: Yeah, makes total sense. Yeah. Unless maybe. Unless you're at the level of someone being a, you know, professional model or something like that. But even then they probably want to be more interactive with the photographer rather than. Or a director rather than their own image. I don't know. [01:25:59] Speaker C: I guess, I don't know. [01:26:00] Speaker A: I was going to say, have you ever worked with. With professional models or anything like that? As in your commercial work, that kind of thing? [01:26:08] Speaker C: Not that I can think of. I usually. My great interest is real people and trying to find something fascinating in real people. Which is also why I like street photography. I don't. I mean, I've never been drawn to a kind of. I love fashion photography, but I'd never been drawn to work in fashion photography. I look at fashion photography for inspiration because I think there is awesome shapes and awesome moments and great ideas, but I don't really want to work in that mode with models. I think for me, I get a lot out of talking to people who are not professionals in what, in what they're doing in the media world. Not professionals in the media world. I kind of like just hearing what, what they're about mostly. And I like creatives So I do enjoy if I'm working with a dancer or something going, you know, so what do you do? How does your day start? You know, how did you get into this crazy thing in the first place? [01:27:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Very interesting people. So that makes it a fun, I guess, a fun interaction to get things going and yeah, I learned things. [01:27:15] Speaker C: I learned so many things. You would do this. You find yourself on a job and you're in a weight silo. It must be the most amazing thing in the world. You know, it's like, here I am. [01:27:25] Speaker A: And it makes photography so much easier because everything's new and interesting and fun to, you know, you're learning stuff. Like I say, it's not just I already know everything about this person and. Or whatever. So, yeah, 100%. [01:27:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:27:36] Speaker A: A couple of quick comments from our senior correspondent in Dublin, Ireland. Before we go to street photography, Kason wants to know what software are you using for editing? I'm using Lightroom. Greg, you're still on Lightroom? Lightroom, Capture One. Capture One, yeah, Capture One. [01:27:58] Speaker C: I could not talk more highly of Capture One. It's faster, it's more reliable, it's kind of more streamlined, especially in its kind of tether capabilities. And I export out of Cape, out of Capture One. And I always do retouching in Photoshop. That's my process. [01:28:24] Speaker B: Yeah, nice. [01:28:27] Speaker A: I'll have to try. I've never actually tried it. I went as far as downloading to do a free trial or something one day that I got sent and there was like a hurdle with getting it set up and I just stopped. So I've never actually put an image into it yet. I really should. I'd like to see what it. Yeah. How it feels and what it's like. [01:28:44] Speaker C: It takes a little bit of learning because it's quite different to Lightroom, but is. It's the best RAW editor out there, without a doubt. I wouldn't, would never touch. I tried, I looked at a while ago. I was trialing this Pentax 645 medium format camera. And for what reasons? I don't know, they wouldn't. It doesn't have a tether agreement with Capture One, which drove me bonkers. So I had to use Lightroom. And Lightroom is just so clunky, like in comparison. I was like, yeah, but maybe it's better now. I don't know. I haven't used it for so long now. I don't know. But it's certainly not. I'm not going back there at this point. [01:29:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll have to give capture one a try. Finally, Cason says love the live lads. Very interesting topics. Thanks. Thanks for joining us. [01:29:31] Speaker B: Thanks Jason. Yeah, let's jump to your street photography, Brent. I'm going to bring up your website while we talk about this. Just to flick through some images. Tell me about what it is that draws you to street photography. You talked about in your portraiture that you love working with real people over models. What is it about street that the reality of street photography that draws you in? [01:29:57] Speaker C: It's a very good question. I'm not completely sure but I do know that years ago I was working as a wedding photographer and I was really sick of doing the work. I'd had enough. I've been. I did a lot of that work over a long period of time and I thought I wanted to just get back into a kind of style of photography that I think I liked when I was younger but never really pursued. And I was very taken by documentary photography. But what kind of what really got me going was this idea of street photography, but that was kind of not so documentary if you like, but still using the environment around you and seeing what you could create. And I made a great series of that which I really enjoyed. And then I thought I'd sort of move away from it because I was more interested in other things. But a great what I do now I kind of. I sell artworks to large buildings and they want the street photography. So a big part of what I do now is continue to shoot on the street because that's sort of what I've become known for creatively. [01:31:03] Speaker B: That's very impressive. [01:31:06] Speaker A: I, when I had a look at your website first and I was sort of in the based on what I'd seen from Greg to have you on the show, I was like, okay, portrait photographer. And I was kind of clicking through and then I got to the street stuff and I was like holy moly. These, I, yeah, I love these images. I was immediately hooked in. [01:31:27] Speaker C: Thanks. That's all The Fuji X Pro 2, every single photo. [01:31:32] Speaker B: Those Fuji colors, you can't beat them. [01:31:34] Speaker C: They're unbelievable. I'm really, really drawn to the street. I like the idea of being a flaneur. I like walking around. I like like talking to people. I like observation. So being at a kind of observational street photographer really interests me and I'm really self conscious about it because I think you could be a creep. And I'm really aware of ways to not be a creep and to just see things for what they are and talk to people. If you need to. But really, again, it's just like my portrait photography. If you look at it. I'm looking for shapes. I'm looking for kind of dramatic light. I'm looking for pops of color. I'm not really kind of working outside of. I mean, the same realm really. It's just that it's on the screen and not in a studio. [01:32:25] Speaker A: If it might. This might sound like a silly question and it might not make sense, but I'm gonna ask it anyway. Are there any very tactical, firm things you could tell people on how to. I guess not, not. Not be a creep, but appear. What? Like, like you're not a creep on the street. If you're trying to take images. Like, are there things that you can do to make people feel more at ease, whether it's with the way that you're walking or acting or whether interacting. Like, what are some things that you do to try and not be a creep whilst being a street photographer? [01:33:08] Speaker C: There are things that I do that I'm very particular about because I think they do make a difference. First of all, I don't wear a hoodie and kind of track some pants around. I know that sounds terrible. You have to look like you're a kind of genuine working person in the kind of city, you know, you're part of it. I just think that's so important. Presentation. Second is, I like the X Pro 2 is not a tiny, teeny tiny camera. I don't, I don't kind of try to work with a tiny small camera. And, and also it has a really audible shutter on it. So, you know, there's always a click. It's not a silent thing. I work with a wide angle lens, so I have to actually get relatively really close to people if I want to take their photograph. I think that if you're using a, like a 7200 on the street, you look like an instant creep, right? Really, like, why would you do that? But basically, I try to be kind the whole time and open to a conversation. If someone questions me, I have the conversation. It's like, yeah, I did take your photo, or no, I didn't take your photo. And we talk about it in just a really open way. Because I'm not taking any photographs that are being unkind to people. And I'm not taking. Well, I don't think. Or any photographs that I think. Well, sometimes I take photos that might be through windows into kind of private worlds which are a little bit is on the edge. But that's. It's still, it's still shopping centers or foyers. It's not, you know, people's homes, but. But I think you just have to be really open about what you're doing and present yourself as a reasonable person. And I think you are way less likely to get in trouble. I also don't do any of that work that gets in people's faces. You'll see all my street photography is quite removed from the subject or the, like, the person that might be in it. I'm not really keen on the idea of making people feel like they've been attacked. [01:35:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Surprised, you know, sneak attack. Yeah. [01:35:21] Speaker C: I'm not that guy. And yeah. [01:35:27] Speaker A: When I saw this image of the gentleman with the amazing hair and mustache framed by the red. Wearing the red like and the yellow like, it's. I love this shot. But I immediately thought to myself, I was like, did you have a conversation with him afterwards? Because I assume it was not a super busy street. He's out there having a coffee or, you know, sort of waiting or whatever by himself. And you're probably strolling past and. And I assume had to stop to frame that up, I hope. Otherwise, if you shot that from the hip, you are an absolute God. [01:36:02] Speaker C: I don't shoot anything from the hip. [01:36:04] Speaker A: Okay. [01:36:05] Speaker C: I usually stop and make a frame. But I didn't talk to him. [01:36:09] Speaker B: No. [01:36:09] Speaker C: I don't even know if he noticed me. [01:36:10] Speaker B: I think, really, that's. [01:36:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I want. Because I thought this. That'd be one of those moments where I'm sure you just have a pleasant, you know, afterwards. Be like, you know, morning. It's kind of thing or something like that. But no. Okay. So you just cruised on past and. And got the photo. Yeah. I love. As soon as I saw that, I was like, this is. I don't know why. I love that photo. It's very cool. [01:36:30] Speaker C: I don't cruise a section. Like, I don't hold myself in a section for any longer than a few minutes. Like a. I don't go. This is the spot. I'm going to be here all day. You know, I just kind of walk and walk and walk and follow things that capture my imagination in front of me. Like, I can see the light might be nice up there. Or there's. I don't know, there's something up there that. Around that corner. I know that building. Maybe someone today is going to walk past there that's wearing a green dress and it's like a. I don't know, green building maybe. And I take those chances. I kind of Try to like black magic it. Like it's gonna happen. I feel very positive today. I'm gonna find something. But you don't always, of course, like this. [01:37:12] Speaker A: This shot's beautiful. The shapes and then, you know, contrasting everything with the. The hazard tape, covert sign and stuff like that. Is this a location that you just saw and thought, I want that shot. Or did you consider, consider I'd be great if someone walked through here but there was no one around or, you know, does that cross your mind with a location like this? Like, hey, I'll. I'll see if someone comes strolling past. But if they don't, I'll still capture it. [01:37:38] Speaker C: You'll probably see that there are photographs of objects and photographs of people in the street. There's different ways I kind of photograph the street. This is my local library. During COVID we could borrow books and drop books off there. I saw this, like for days and days I looked at this and I was like, I've got to take my camera next time because there's a great photo in there. And that's really how that came about. Like, usually I got a camera with me, but not always. And so then it's like, yeah, I take note. I don't. I'm not very formal about it, but I'm always taking note of the time of day and what I see the light doing around me. And then when I'm out and about, I'm like, oh, this time of day I'm pretty sure that the light bounces off that building in a nice spot. Let's go and have a look. [01:38:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Beautiful work. [01:38:24] Speaker C: Thank you. [01:38:25] Speaker A: Absolutely love it. [01:38:27] Speaker C: I gotta go soon because weirdly enough, I have to do another interview. [01:38:33] Speaker B: Oh, look at you. [01:38:34] Speaker A: You are very famous. Oh, we very much appreciate your time. [01:38:38] Speaker C: Then, like, it's just a strange period. I'm working on a. On a really large project which is a street based project for a building in Melbourne which is opening later this year. And just because of that, right now I just. There's a few people that want to talk to me about that. Creative. [01:38:54] Speaker B: Nice. [01:38:55] Speaker A: So cool. Well, thank you very much for giving us your time this morning. It was wonderful. [01:38:59] Speaker C: Well, thanks for inviting me. It's been a real pleasure and absolutely wonderful to meet you both. And I hope you're around like Greg. Do you live in the Melbourne area? [01:39:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm in South Yarra, so I'm not far from you at all. And maybe we can catch up for a street walk. Justin keeps promising to come down to Melbourne for A street walk from Bendigo. But so far, folks, there's been no side of him. [01:39:21] Speaker A: Well, now I've got my new camera. [01:39:23] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, he's got his new little film loaded up to that in a minute. But look, Green, on behalf of the. Oh, sorry. You go on, mate. [01:39:29] Speaker C: I was just gonna say it'd be great to have it chat one day, come and have a coffee and. Justin, you're in Bendigo, are you? [01:39:35] Speaker A: Yeah, but I've got to get down there. Yeah, I'd love to. [01:39:38] Speaker B: His. His police ankle bracelet only lets him go so far, so we'll have to work around the law with that one. [01:39:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know if we can. You know what? You know, it would be a dream for me. I'd love to, if I can. If I can raise the funds, pay for Greg to have his photo taken at his studio and I could film the process. That would be amazing to see you slowly break him down. [01:40:02] Speaker C: That's an interesting thing. I like that. Hey, can I just make another point about photography that I kind of like? I get do some guest lectures throughout the year and I always make this point to the people I'm talking to and I like to reinforce it. And that is that it's really inspiring to look at lots of different types of art. And so I find that what I. The way that if you're looking at paintings, you're looking at sculpture, you may be going to the cinema, you're watching contemporary dance, you're going to photography exhibitions. I find that the more people get out, look at lots of art that's around them and then start to be inspired by that and work out where they fit into that. As a creative person, I think that makes you a way, way, way better photographer than watching YouTube videos about. About technique. So I always encourage people to look at art in the real world as much as possible. Although I also look at it online a lot to kind of stop watching Netflix all the time and go out and turn up and take photographs. [01:41:11] Speaker B: Put. [01:41:12] Speaker C: If you haven't got a project, get a project. Learn from your project and your project could be as simple as people who work at the local cfa, you know, or people who. I don't know. Funny what all those graphic does those things on the. You see a lot of civil engineering marks on the. On the roads these days, like everywhere. You could go around and make art out of that. Like, that could be your project and it might not be a good project, but you will learn so much from doing that project. I encourage everyone to Have a project and everyone to get out and about, look at artwork, turn up to meetings, and don't just sit in front of your computer saying, that's not a very good photo. I could do better. Because you can only do better if you're out there taking photos. [01:42:01] Speaker B: That's it. [01:42:01] Speaker A: What a message. [01:42:02] Speaker B: Wonderful advice. [01:42:03] Speaker A: Editor said clip that. That will be the clip from this episode. [01:42:06] Speaker C: Yep. The AI editor. [01:42:10] Speaker B: No, he's really. [01:42:11] Speaker A: He's a real person. [01:42:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I created him, so I know he's real. His mother had nothing to do with it. But. But look, Brent, that's. That's a lovely passing, you know, final comment that I think is really, really valid, really important, because we do often get caught up in the technicalities and the. Oh, you know, I can't quite get this sort of composition. So I'm going to watch 100 YouTube channels rather than actually go out into the world. Look for that composition and practice with it over and over and over. Practice, practice, practice. But look, on behalf of the Camera Life podcast, Justin and I, and Jim, obviously, and Yelena and Editor Seb in the background and lucky straps, we want to thank you very much for your appearance today. A lot to take on, a lot to learn from, and it's been an absolute pleasure having you on board. So thank you. [01:43:02] Speaker A: Thanks so much. [01:43:03] Speaker C: Thank you. It's an honor and a pleasure and thanks. [01:43:06] Speaker A: Thanks. From Cason in Dublin, Ireland. [01:43:08] Speaker C: Thanks, Cason. Look me up. Yeah, I gotta go. Thank you. [01:43:14] Speaker B: We'll let you run. Thanks, Brent. [01:43:17] Speaker A: Bye. All right, just the two of us now. [01:43:22] Speaker C: Just. [01:43:22] Speaker B: Just going back to being intimate. [01:43:26] Speaker A: Oops. That's just you. [01:43:28] Speaker B: Where'd you go? [01:43:29] Speaker A: Here I am. I'm back. [01:43:31] Speaker B: It's really an interesting discussion. [01:43:33] Speaker A: Yeah. So the portrait sessions, obviously the street work's super interesting because it's just amazing. But the portrait sessions is something that, yeah, is like, as I said, I would just panic and blast away for 15 minutes and then be like, well, I've got more than two shots now. Like, now what? You know, and. And you know what we need to do? What's that? [01:43:55] Speaker B: We need to turn the burst mode off your camera, for one. [01:43:59] Speaker A: Even without that on, honestly, I would. I would just. Yeah, I've done it before. I've done. I've done, like, not the way that Brent does it, but I've done head shots and stuff for people before, and it. It just seemed. I. I definitely think I panic instead of slowing down and just like, take, take. So, yeah, slow it right down. [01:44:19] Speaker B: I think what we need to do Is the next time I come to Bendigo, you. Let's come to Melbourne. You, me and Jim need to get together and do a portrait shoot of each other. [01:44:27] Speaker A: Yeah, well, we do one another. We need some sort of new shots and stuff for the podcast and the website and things like that. [01:44:33] Speaker B: Or maybe we'll just drag editor Seb in and he can just be the bottle for all of us and we'll just, you know, that'll be good for his anxiety. [01:44:41] Speaker A: Interesting. Three photographers, just. [01:44:46] Speaker B: Light straight. You'll be trying to be natural. Try to be natural. [01:44:51] Speaker A: Just relax. What's the problem? [01:44:53] Speaker C: Take a breath, dude. [01:44:53] Speaker B: Oh, man. What's wrong? [01:44:55] Speaker A: Whip out the 500mil GFX lens from. From. [01:45:00] Speaker B: From across the road. [01:45:02] Speaker A: Yeah, we should do that. I think we should do that. Catch up and get some shots. Maybe also we could. Maybe we could do some of it if we go to John's lab in Kyneton. If we. If we sort of. Maybe even steal some of his likers and go for a walk or something and get a few shots there too. Not a portrait session, but. Yeah, I'm gonna open up this. This box and see if it is indeed a camera or if I was sold just a. I don't know, whatever. A picture, just a bit of rubbish. Because first of all, in case anyone hasn't seen, I got this yesterday. So this is my. Look how much light comes through this bad boy. Look at my face. I'm upside down. So this is the Canon EF 51.2. Yes. That's crazy, because I already have the RF 51.2, but this is purchased specifically to go on my new film body. [01:46:04] Speaker B: That's a. I had that lens when I was shooting Canon. [01:46:07] Speaker A: Did you. Did you like it? [01:46:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it's gorgeous. [01:46:10] Speaker A: Apparently it's a. I had each of the nifty 50s. [01:46:13] Speaker C: Oh. [01:46:13] Speaker B: I had like the. They had the plastic fantastic, which is like a 1.8. Yeah, I had the 1.4 and then I went to the 1.2. [01:46:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:46:23] Speaker B: And that 1.2 is just stunning. [01:46:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I can't even get into this. He's really taped it up. Well. Okay. Just, you know, try and fill some time while I'm doing this. [01:46:34] Speaker B: Oh, well, you meant to do the unboxing. You meant to do the ASMR bit. You mix it. Messing it all up. That's it. [01:46:40] Speaker A: I'll try and get audio of the bit where I cut my thumb. [01:46:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Blood gushing. Poor Jim will have to run lucky straps on his own. Oh, you gotta pop a couple. [01:46:54] Speaker A: Can you hear that? [01:46:55] Speaker B: You gotta pop a couple on camera. On the. [01:46:57] Speaker A: It's not as satisfying as you would think. They're just kind of going flat. Yeah. [01:47:05] Speaker B: Nice. Hey, you're seeing it live here, folks, just the same time as Justin. Tell us what you got. [01:47:13] Speaker A: EOS1N. The EOS1N. I wanted a 1V, but they're very expensive and hard to get. Geez, this thing is. This thing's in better condition than my R5 Mark II. This thing looks brand new. Oh, it's a little scuffed on the bottom, but that is nice. Look, it's got a mirror. It's mirrorful. Not mirrorless. It's mirrorful. Can I get a bit of a lighting on that mirror? Look at it. It's actually got a mirror. [01:47:42] Speaker B: Digifrog says, see if the sensor has been cleaned. There's no sensor. [01:47:46] Speaker A: Very funny. Very funny, Frog. Very funny. Yeah, right. We are. What a. What a nice. [01:47:56] Speaker B: Oh, that's a nice. That's a gorgeous street kit. [01:48:00] Speaker A: It's on the bigger side for street. [01:48:02] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's still that 51.2 that. [01:48:05] Speaker A: It balances really well. [01:48:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:48:09] Speaker A: All right, now, how do you turn it on? [01:48:15] Speaker B: I think Philip's ducking out. Thanks for all he said comments. Thanks, Philip. [01:48:19] Speaker A: Thanks, Philip. [01:48:20] Speaker B: Good to see you again. [01:48:21] Speaker A: Hey, Philip, do you know how to turn on a Canon EOS one? Why don't I know how to turn it on? [01:48:26] Speaker B: And frog says, Sexy 1.2. [01:48:29] Speaker A: Very, very. This is crazy. Where's the on button? [01:48:35] Speaker B: Paul says this is Canon's new retro camera. [01:48:38] Speaker A: Yeah, it is, it is, it is. [01:48:40] Speaker C: They just. [01:48:40] Speaker B: All they have to do is bring out the tooling. I'm sure they got the mold somewhere. Bring out the tooling and just clean it up a little. Stick with the same camera. [01:48:55] Speaker A: Don't know how to get the battery out. Look, this is going to take some time. I'd have to do this off air. [01:49:03] Speaker B: I might have to do this offline. Maybe you should video it. [01:49:07] Speaker A: Well, I was going to do a video. I might do a video of me popping the first lot of film in it and going on a little walk. But it's going to be different than the photo walk videos I've made because those usually you can see, I shoot through the LCD screen, which I also get negative comments for, but so that you can see what I'm trying to frame up. Yeah, but. Yeah. [01:49:27] Speaker B: All right, let's jump into some comments. [01:49:31] Speaker A: Frog says, how much is the EF 51.2 worth? This I got for $8. Hundred. Most of them seem to be listed for 1200. So I'm still waiting to see if maybe it just, just explodes or something. But the guy seemed very genuine. And yeah, he just listed at 800 at that price. I didn't haggle at all. [01:49:49] Speaker B: You've looked through the glass like there's no sign of deterioration inside? [01:49:53] Speaker A: Not at all. Gave it a quick test using an adapter he was kind enough to send. So his partner met me in Bendigo because she works up here. And he even sent his adapter for the RF camera so that I could quickly test it because I didn't have. Oh, wonderful, an EF mount camera handy. [01:50:09] Speaker B: Oh, that's building, isn't it? [01:50:11] Speaker A: It is, yeah. It seemed like a lovely dude. So quickly tested it all looked good. 800, I think is a bargain for this lens. They're, they're pretty sought after by some people. But yeah, obviously the RF is optically superior. It's sharper and all that sort of stuff. But I think I'll probably do a comparison video at some stage. I'll have to get an adapter, do a comparison video of, you know, in 2025. What is the difference between these two 1.2 lenses? And, and should you maybe just get the used 1.2? [01:50:46] Speaker B: Because the EF is at least, it's old, it's at least a decade. [01:50:52] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I'd say maybe closer to 15. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:50:57] Speaker B: I'd say it'd be interesting to see, make some good content. Yeah. And Cason wanted to know, when using EF on an RF body, can you see a difference? That's what we're gonna find out. [01:51:10] Speaker A: No, Well, I mean, the difference would be whether there's a sensor difference. And the other difference is when using EF on an RF body, the focus will be more accurate. So when you use a dslr, the focus is reliant on like being adjusted to, to suit the body. That's what micro adjustments used to be. You would, you would micro adjust, calibrate your lens to your body. And sometimes, especially this 1.2 is known for back focusing on a closer subject. So the, the focus plane would not necessarily be accurate when it thinks it's in focus, but it's not. The micro focus might be slightly out and it might shift depending on what distance the subject's at. So you can't even calibrate it because you say you calibrate it for someone that's 4 meters away, but then when they're 2 meters away, it's out and you Calibrate it for when they're 2 meters away and then it's out when they're 4 meters away. So it would slightly shift at the very wide apertures. That doesn't happen on mirrorless because your focus is on the sensor. So if mirrorless is in focus, it's in focus on the sensor. So that's my understanding of it anyway. So this might be more accurate on an RF in terms of the. [01:52:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I believe that Justin Castles is one of the finest technical photographers I've ever met. Because he can answer questions like that. [01:52:37] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:52:38] Speaker B: And not even bore me. Very special, Very, very special man. So how about you? In the comments, has anyone else been inspired by our recent chats about film photography? Has anyone been interested in any of the. We'll cover these on Monday night because in the space of this week already there's been three new camera releases and around 23, 24 new lenses so far. And we have the show CP plus, which is currently taking place at Pacifico and Yokohama in Japan, hasn't even officially kicked off. So there's a lot going on. And next Monday on our random photography show, we're going to have a lot of news to cover and we're going to be joined by Camera Life alumni Greg Carrick. So he's going to be, he's going to be on board to chat because Greg, like me, Greg's not unlike Justin. Greg and I are happy to stick with old gear. We're not looking to make it photographers. Oh yeah, but it's new. It's new to you? [01:53:49] Speaker A: New to me. [01:53:50] Speaker B: But, but I, I joke, I pick on Justin about that a lot but you know, reality is if I had the money, I'd have a brand new XT5 right now. But I don't because Justin purposely throttles my income so I can't have better gear than him. [01:54:07] Speaker A: I gotta just keep it just below XD5 level. Yep, it's the key. [01:54:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Anyway, I'll talk to my therapist about that, but yeah, let us know in the comments what, you know, what are you guys thinking about film? Have our recent discussions and guests who either have shot film and analog or are still working with very old systems. Like Alex Frain was talking a lot about how, you know, he, he's certainly not gear obsessed at all. He's working with, with oldest, our friend Greg Carrick, who will talk to on Monday night about it. Loves old stuff, loves old lenses especially and he loves adapting old lenses. To his Fujifilm XC4 and his GFX. So it'll be interesting conversation on Monday night. [01:54:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. [01:54:54] Speaker B: But on that note, I think we should probably wrap it up and let Justin get on with playing with his new toy. [01:55:00] Speaker A: I just got to figure out how to turn this thing on. This is insane. I don't, I've never had this much trouble just trying to turn a camera on and it's going to be something obvious that I don't need to put. [01:55:09] Speaker B: A film in it first. No, that seems silly, doesn't it? [01:55:11] Speaker A: No, I think it would still give me some sort of something. Look, this is what a rookie I am. Anyway, I'll figure it out. [01:55:21] Speaker B: And I just said that you're one of the most technically excellent photographers I've ever met. [01:55:25] Speaker A: Can't turn the camera. How do I turn it on? [01:55:30] Speaker B: Anyway, one last comment. Sorry from Case and thanks for being so involved today Cason. Yeah because I think some of the old school glass equality, a lot of people pass the old stuff. Sadly they do and you know the second hand market is. And a lot of this glass retains its value which is both good and bad. It's good in that it's obviously quality and it's worth something but it's bad for you know, people that are looking to buy gear, you know. Yeah, it can be, it can be intimidating especially from a second. Sorry Justin. From a second hand market where you're not sure whether you're actually buying what you. What's going to be delivered. So there's also that intimidation level of buying secondhand. [01:56:16] Speaker A: It can be a little scary and you've got to weigh up as well what the new stuff is. You know, maybe there's something available in a new lens that's not the equivalent of Canon's L series or whatever. So it's maybe it's more of a mid range lens but it actually potentially outperforms some of the older glass. You got to take that into consideration or yeah, look at it the other way. And there's older glass that if you're happy to adapt it super high quality and, and cheap now. And I think, I think it's gone through those older, you know, Nikons F mount lenses. Yeah, F mount and Canon's EF mount have gone through their sort of major depreciation and I think they're probably going to sit pretty steady for a while especially the sought after lenses like some of the L mount primes and stuff like that. They're kind of going to sit where they Are, I think for quite a while because they will be sought after people using the old system and also people adapting for the new system. So, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't be scared of buying one. You can always resell it on the used market if you decide to upgrade. [01:57:21] Speaker B: And yeah, and if you're worried about buying secondhand, you know, go with a reputable marketplace that offers buyer protection. You know, pay with PayPal if possible. You know, if you're worried about meeting people, try to make it that like, especially marketplace, often you have people showing up at your home. You know, you don't have to go down that path. There are other avenues. [01:57:43] Speaker A: A lot of people do the meet it, meet outside a police station kind of thing. You know, just on the street, but just near somewhere that you know you're not going to get into any kind of trouble or, and it's nice and busy and, and try to avoid cash if you can. [01:57:56] Speaker B: I, I recommend avoiding cash. It's not, it depends on the situation but you know, things like PayPal and other similar platforms are often safer. [01:58:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I used, I use cash, but it's, it's one of those things that sort of. Bendigo's a little bit different in Melbourne as well. And yeah, understand your own situation and just be, be wary. But I also look at it from the other direction. On one side I look at it like, hey, I don't want to get scammed. And on the other side, I also try to make the person selling as at ease as possible with me. So if, yeah, if someone is both ways. Yeah, exactly. And be aware that it can go both ways and just be, you know, be upfront and I'm sort of, I'm more than happy always to be like, hey, this is my, Here's a link to my photography business. Here's a link to, you know, like, I'm a real person and you can, you know, you can see me on this podcast if you want to see who I am and that I'm not someone who's just coming to kind of, I don't know, whatever, try and steal your lens or something crazy like that. [01:58:54] Speaker B: Do your due diligence, like do a little research and make sure that it's legit and ask questions for clarification and don't be bullied into anything. [01:59:02] Speaker A: So I, this. So the lens, I met the person you know, on the street and that was all easy and fine. The camera body, I had to get posted and I just, I simply, first of all, I looked at their seller profile. They had other camera gear on there. So it made me think maybe they're either a bit of an enthusiast or they might be doing this for a profit. I'm cool with that, too. Whatever the, Whatever they're into. They sent me a video of the camera working, but that's good. But there's always that step. You can get this stuff, people scrape it off other people's listings. [01:59:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:59:36] Speaker A: Or they'll get it off the listing, pretend to be a buyer, and then say, hey, can you send me a video of it working? And then they list it somewhere else and pretend to sell it. So what I did before I transferred them the money was I said, hey, would you mind just writing my name on a piece of paper and taking a photo of it next to the camera just so I know they've literally got this camera at their house. Hey, they could still scam me after that. And if that happens, well, this was a $350 camera, so as much as that would suck, it's not going to bankrupt me. It was a risk I was willing to take. And especially after they had seemed very transparent and very friendly and they didn't try and push back on any of my requests, I was like, all right, I think this is genuine. That's. That's how I did it. [02:00:22] Speaker B: And if you want more information on. On buying and selling secondhand, I have a couple of articles over on ShotKit.com where I write, who I write for, about this topic, about how to. How to sell your gear and how to take nice clean photos of your gear for sale. Because at times we all sell and buy stuff secondhand and also you know, how. What to look for and where to go and how to approach secondhand purchases. So if you head to shopkick.com do a search for me and look through all of my articles. Or you can do. Just do a search for secondhand or pre. Owned is the other keyword I think I put in. So anyway, a couple of last comments before we finish up. Philip Johnson is back. He disappeared for about five minutes. Welcome back, Philip. [02:01:07] Speaker A: Thanks for coming back, Philip. [02:01:09] Speaker B: That's another unique stat in our, in our growing, growing channel. He says, I'm back. The new Sigma looks interesting. I agree, Philip. The more I look at it, the more I like it. But it's here in Australia, I think it's like three and a half, almost four grand for the body only. Then about another, you know, up to a thousand k's, depending on what. Sorry, $1,000 depending on what, what lens you want to Drop on it obviously. But if you're already invested in L mount lenses then I think it's an attractive option. If you're not, I'd probably wait for it to come down a little bit. I love it for its simplicity. I love the simplicity of Apple products and the design aesthetics and the ergonomics and this really sings to me. And I love on the back that the screen is fixed. There's a tiny little sub monitor that lets you know your core settings as you're dialing them in. And it's only got about four buttons. And I like the purity of that, that it might kind of, you know, make you forget all the other stuff that cameras often distract you with and just keep it really pure and simple. But we'll wait and see what, what the reviews are saying maybe in a month or two's time and we might come back to this. But we will mention it briefly again on Monday night when we talk to Greg about it. What else we got here? Cason in Dublin agrees that you should do a review on the 1.2 quality differences. Pretty please. David. Hey David from San Fran may have to stay awake for your film talk. That's on Monday. Well it's going to be just a general talk. We won't always talk about film but just in from San Francisco streets again but listening on the phone. Great to have you join us once again. Paul. Greg, Any good places in Melbourne for secondhand gear? There used to be a store, Lane's camera. [02:03:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:03:02] Speaker B: But I think they must be online. [02:03:03] Speaker A: You know who does actually do a fair bit of. And I don't know what the pricing's like but ted's, that's actually who Jim and I think potentially even Grant traded their gear in at Ted's and Teds do this kind of trade in thing. [02:03:18] Speaker B: Camera Lane. Yeah. [02:03:20] Speaker A: And, and, and then they have it resold and they check, they check, you know, the sensor and stuff like that. So they do. I don't know if how guaranteed the quality is but they certainly do some checks to make sure obviously that you know, the sensors are right and they try and make sure obviously it's not stolen or anything like that. And then there'd be some sort of warranty I think maybe not an extensive warranty but some sort of thing that if you get it home and it's not, you know, not right, you could probably take it back and get a different camera or, or get your money back. So ted's would be worth checking out too but certainly just double check the pricing is in line with the used market and that they're not trying to get sort of really high prices for it. But yeah, I've noticed that Ted's are pretty active on the used side of things. [02:04:02] Speaker B: I would stay steer away from Digi Direct. Just personally Camera Lane was the store I was talking about. They used to have a store in one of the laneways in the CBD and they had a very kind of exclusive. Not exclusive but people knew what they were doing when they went to that store. People had knowledge about photography. It wasn't sort of. It wasn't like did you direct or one of those other stores where you walk in because it's your first camera. Oh, I love that sound. You got it on. You turn it on. [02:04:30] Speaker A: I figured it out. [02:04:31] Speaker B: Oh, you charmer. The Camera Lane have a. Yeah, we can hear it. It's awesome. Sounds rude because you're interrupting my monologue but. But yeah, Camera Lane if you have a look at them it's just cameralane.com family owned business. They've been in the photography business for decades and they have a bunch of pre owned either demo or used gear that they test and check and doesn't say anything about warranties but I'm sure if you dig a bit deeper than I am There's a Fujifilm XH2S on there. There's some film cameras, there's a Sony A5100 with a kit zoom. 500 bucks. You know you can pick up a bargain especially if you're new in photography or you're looking for just a chuck in your bag. EDC camera, everyday carry camera. Lots to choose from. We're going to wrap up. One last thing from Rick. I'm at work, been busy. I'll catch up on what I miss later. Great show as always. Thanks for joining in Rick and thanks for being so active in comments. I think on that note, we've already lost Justin. He's. He's. He's got his new hyper fixation. That's a gorgeous sound, isn't it? [02:05:45] Speaker A: It sounds awesome. [02:05:46] Speaker B: It's such a beautiful sound. But folks, this has been the Camera Life podcast special. Thanks once again to to Brent Lukey for joining us this morning. Insightful and inspirational. Please make sure if you're an audio listener find some time to watch the. Or just go to his website, look at the images. But it's 27th. [02:06:07] Speaker A: I was just gonna say that. Sorry, just speaking of audio just reminded me I'm a little behind. So the audio from Monday night will only be going up today and then this one might not go up till tomorrow or something like that just because Yelena had surgery and we were a little busy, so. Yeah. [02:06:20] Speaker B: And Justin's got a new toy to. [02:06:22] Speaker A: Play with and I got a new. [02:06:23] Speaker B: Camera for real reason. [02:06:24] Speaker A: But I'll, I'll catch up and we'll be back on track by, by Monday's show. [02:06:28] Speaker B: But there's plenty of other podcasts to watch and listen to, so please make sure you like and subscribe. Let your photography friends know. We're not in it for the numbers, but it helps to spread the message that we hope is providing inspiration and insight and entertainment and just, you know, talking, hearing like minded people talk about the craft that we all love and participate in. So we'll drop some links to Brent's stuff in the description if they're not already there and we'll join you again on Monday night, 7.30pm Australian Eastern Daylight Time. I know it's a little late for you, David and San Fran, but we appreciate the dedication. [02:07:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:07:10] Speaker B: Okay. There you go. [02:07:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:07:13] Speaker C: All right. [02:07:15] Speaker A: We better call it there. Yeah, I think falls off his chair and we'll, we'll catch you all in the next one. [02:07:22] Speaker B: We'll see you Monday. [02:07:23] Speaker A: It's been the camera life. [02:07:25] Speaker B: Bye, guys. [02:07:34] Speaker C: That's lovely.