EP02 Making Money with Photography

[00:00:01] Speaker A: And we are live episode. Welcome. Hi, Grant. [00:00:06] Speaker B: Hi, Justin. How are you doing? [00:00:10] Speaker A: I'm great. I'm great. It's Friday afternoon. It's a beautiful day. A wonderful day. Our first ever live stream without Jimbo. Yeah, no Jim. No Jim this week, but that's okay. We don't need him. It'll be better without him. [00:00:27] Speaker B: Let's hope. [00:00:28] Speaker A: Ouch. Today's show, we will be talking about how to make money with photography or with your camera in 2023. What to do, what not to do. There's a fly in my studio. Get out of here. Especially if you're new to making money with photography, maybe new to photography itself, or if you've been doing it for a long time, but you just want to take that step into maybe part time work or even eventually building a full time business. That's what we're going to talk about. And I think the best way to get started is to ask Grant, do you remember the first time you got paid to take photos? [00:01:13] Speaker B: It was probably real estate, and I think it would have been for a rental property, so it would have been about $100. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Okay, so. So someone, just someone that you knew, just. That worked for a real estate agent. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Yep. So my partner worked at a local real estate, and they were just doing their photos, like on their phone. They wanted something. Yeah. You know, a little bit better than their iPhones or whatever, their iPads, whatever they're using. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:48] Speaker B: So, done that for probably two years. [00:01:51] Speaker A: Oh, so. So you got one. One job and then they wanted to keep doing it, I guess. [00:01:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:57] Speaker A: A $100 was. Was pretty reasonable, so. [00:01:59] Speaker B: Yeah, and I was. Yeah, I was just more reliable than the, like, the bigger companies. Like, I could do it that day where they would be like, oh, I'll be there in a week. [00:02:09] Speaker A: Okay. [00:02:10] Speaker B: And because I was. Yeah, I. I was working part time off. Working full time then, but part time photography, I could. [00:02:20] Speaker A: Yep. [00:02:20] Speaker B: Give me the number. I'll be there tonight. [00:02:23] Speaker A: Okay. Whereas if they were dealing with sort of a professional real estate photography business, that would schedule it in a week later or something like that. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah, they'll probably schedule in a full, like a full day. So they would have like four or five houses they'll do in a row. Okay, so then I'll just do one. [00:02:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting. Did you like it? [00:02:46] Speaker B: I feel like the. The rental side was okay, but most of the time you go in there, it's renters. Their houses are dirty. Yeah. You feel weird touching people's stuff. [00:03:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:01] Speaker B: Like you go into a bathroom. [00:03:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:02] Speaker B: Like, you go into a bathroom and it's all dirty and you're like, oh, what do I do? And you take a photo and the real estate agent would be like, why didn't you move their stuff? And I'm like, I'm not going to touch their toothbrush and their dirty towels and the rest of it. [00:03:16] Speaker A: So you didn't feel comfortable working in that, in the spaces? Like, it just sort of. [00:03:21] Speaker B: No, the empty houses were good because you could just get in. Click, click, click. Done. Come home and edit. [00:03:27] Speaker A: Yep. But yeah, going into rentals and stuff. Yelena Jennings wants to know where Jim is. Jim is on holidays. I think he's going to Queensland, but. [00:03:38] Speaker B: Yes, he should know where. [00:03:40] Speaker A: I have no idea. I didn't ask. Too busy trying to get my new, my new studio camera set up. I'm quite happy with it. Looks good. [00:03:50] Speaker B: What are you using? [00:03:51] Speaker A: This is the five reals. It's an expensive webcam. I ordered the elgato alligator, something like that, Cam link, four k, and plugged it in and it worked. First time. Perfecto. So, yeah, much better than the iPhone that I used last week. [00:04:10] Speaker B: Well, I'm on the iPhone, that's why I'm a little bit less crisp than you. [00:04:15] Speaker A: Less crispy, yeah. Plus I've got this nice. I've got a new aputure light dome mini softbox with a grid on it. And I think it's. It's really good. Very happy with it. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's a lot better than last week. [00:04:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Upgrades. Upgrades. So real estate was the first thing that, that you made money from? What, what else have you tried? [00:04:45] Speaker B: Stock photography was probably the next one. [00:04:48] Speaker A: So that was after. After real estate, you sort of thought. [00:04:51] Speaker B: Probably about the same time. [00:04:53] Speaker A: Okay, did you specifically shoot for stock photography or did you take stuff that you'd already sort of shop that was in your portfolio and just upload it? [00:05:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So stupidly, I, like, would have been overseas to Europe, and I just. I was just working with a guy one day and he's like, oh, have you tried stock photography? And I was like, no, what's that? And I looked into it and I just literally went on to, I think it was Shutterstock at the time, and just uploaded every photo I had a. [00:05:26] Speaker A: Everything. [00:05:27] Speaker B: Nearly everything I had. [00:05:29] Speaker A: So how many would that be? [00:05:30] Speaker B: Roughly like a hundred, probably 40, 50, like of the ones I thought were good at the time. [00:05:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:40] Speaker B: Looking back, they probably aren't. And they're not really stock photography type of photos, though, more just the landscapes and all that. I was doing. But yes, I went from Shutterstock, then I put them onto Getty. [00:05:58] Speaker A: Okay. [00:05:59] Speaker B: And I reckon total for eight years would be $150. [00:06:07] Speaker A: Wow. Totally. [00:06:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think I've lost a lot more due to people stealing my photos or not even stealing. They have a license and then they pay five to $0.10 for a photo. And then like in the benigo advertiser domain properties, use my photo of the fountain. [00:06:32] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:06:33] Speaker B: I opened up and I was like, I swear that's my photo. And then. Yep, went back exactly the same. It was my photo and I got paid $0.10. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Wow. And they, and they, I wonder if they licensed it for print because there's different license levels and stuff depending on what they did. I wonder if they did the right one or whether they just hope that no one would notice. But it's too hard to try and police stuff like that. Anyway, it's like it's all over. Yeah. All over the Internet. [00:07:01] Speaker B: And like recently I've just deactivated every stock website I was part of due to just finding much stuff on Etsy. People were downloading them from canva because canva must have a subscription to Getty. [00:07:16] Speaker A: They do. They have, yeah. If you have a pro canva subscription, you have access to a heap of stock photos that. I didn't realize they came from Getty, but they're coming from somewhere. Yeah. So that's interesting. [00:07:28] Speaker B: So I've been chasing people on get on Etsy, been like, this is my photo, please get rid of it. [00:07:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:35] Speaker B: And they've made, you know, 2000 sales at $8 for a digital download. [00:07:40] Speaker A: They're reselling, they're reselling your image on Etsy as a digital download. That's, that's against all the terms and conditions with all the stock photo sites. So they're obviously, they just don't care. [00:07:52] Speaker B: No, well that's why they take it down straight away, because they don't want to get a bad. [00:07:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:57] Speaker B: Like a black list. But um, there's even companies in Queensland got one of my Holland cow photos. [00:08:04] Speaker A: I remember telling me about that. [00:08:07] Speaker B: So it was print on demand. [00:08:08] Speaker A: But it was, they didn't, they, wasn't there one in a cafe as well? Like not, not print on demand? It was actually a framed print ready to sell. [00:08:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So that was their cafe. [00:08:21] Speaker A: Ah. [00:08:22] Speaker B: They would print all their stuff and put it in that cafe. So they obviously hired the space to promote their stuff as well. [00:08:29] Speaker A: And so they had basically licensed your photo legally from a stock photo site, but then were selling it as if it was some artists photo hanging in a cafe for. How much did they have on that? [00:08:44] Speaker B: I think it was about 800. $900. [00:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah. So they were charging fine art print prices on something that they just licensed off a stock photo site. Yeah, that's. Yeah. That's terrible. Very misrepresentative. So. [00:09:00] Speaker B: And the way I found out was a lady from the Sunshine coast messaged me on Instagram, being like, do you have any more of these photos available? And I was like, what? What do you mean? I'm like, where did you see that? And she's like, this is your photo, isn't it? And they actually had my name on there. Grant Fleming photography. That's how she found it. [00:09:19] Speaker A: No, and that's how I got onto it. They were essentially pretending that they were selling you on behalf of you, but they were going. They were going to. They had paid you some cents, and they were going to keep the full $800, obviously, minus whatever they'd spent to print it out and frame it, but, yeah, that's. That's so dodgy. [00:09:41] Speaker B: Yeah. That's why, as soon as that happened, got rid of everything. I'm waiting. I think I got $100 from Getty on the way somewhere. Mm hmm. But I haven't seen a cent still. [00:09:51] Speaker A: Yep. So. So, obviously, stock photography, people make money from it. It definitely can work. But I think the people that make money from it, either they get lucky with a photo, they're in the. They're in the right place, right time, or they really work it. They pay models, they do specific shoots where they do commercial theme. Say they do fake real estate office photos, and they'll just. They'll do, you know, a hundred photos in a day with some models and stuff like that, and then they'll all be available forever. And then they do the same thing with. With all sorts of stuff, and then they can probably. I'm sure they can make money out of it, but it's. It's a tough business to make. [00:10:32] Speaker B: Comes down to licensing, I think, in the end. Like what you license it as. [00:10:37] Speaker A: Exactly. Shots by Jeremy. Shots by Jeremy says, that's so bad. He is quite unhappy for you and your story. [00:10:44] Speaker B: Yes, it was bad. But I was talking to a. The barber when I was getting my haircut, and his dad's a stock. Photographers. [00:10:54] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:54] Speaker B: Photographers, photographer, photographer. Yeah. And he was just putting, like, the keywords or hashtags or whatever they use and just saying, Ukraine, Russia, war, even though it was just like a, you know, he'd go down to the CFA where they blow stuff up and take a photo of that, and then he was tagging it as that and people were buying it to line the newspaper. [00:11:21] Speaker A: For news articles and stuff. But it was nothing. It was. That's interesting. It sounds very, very good. Shady. [00:11:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah, what you're saying, essentially, is the people that are doing it are working the system pretty hard to try and get money from. It's. It's got to be something you'd be. You'd be. Have to work and want to be interested in, which I've never been. I've never really tried it, but it's interesting to hear your story that you gave it a go and it was mostly frustrating. And $150 over eight years works out to, you know, a couple of coffees a year, maybe. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:00] Speaker A: In money. So what? So you wouldn't, in general, for someone looking to sort of make part time income in 2023 with their camera, you wouldn't say, go out and take a heap of photos and put them on stock photography? I mean, that's not something you're going to be doing this year, so. [00:12:19] Speaker B: No, but it depends what, like, you like taking photos of. If you like taking photos of flowers. [00:12:24] Speaker A: Maybe, because even then, like, how many. How many flower photos are already on stock photography sites? [00:12:30] Speaker B: Like, how many people are going to buy a photo of a flower? So you're better off having, like, that's what I was getting so conflicted by. It's like, I'm better off making, you know, the $0.50 than making nothing at all. But over that time, I'm just like, nah. [00:12:46] Speaker A: One thing we talked, we talked about just before the show, actually. But I have. I know there's photographers doing it that have done well, which is doing niche stock photography at higher prices, where, say, you work your hometown really hard and just take a photo of everything you can think of that might be interesting. Like that photo you had of the fountain that the domain licensed for $0.20. Instead of that, you create a website specifically for your hometown, for Bendigo, and you put all the photos on there as digital downloads, but you charge $50 or $100 per download or something like that. But make them very specific images to Bendigo and try and make them the best ones that are around. And even offer a lot of businesses, like an exclusive license, because if they want to put it on their website, they don't want to see it on any other competing businesses website. So you could offer an exclusive license for a great drone photo of a town for $200 or something. And in one sale, you've made more than you made on stock photography for eight years. Yeah, it's something I've been thinking about a lot. It's not something I want to do, but I think it would be a good way if you were new to photography and didn't really want to go hustling for clients. It's a good way to give you a reason to get out and shoot and to. You would make sales for sure. [00:14:17] Speaker B: And you'd probably make clients, too, maybe. [00:14:20] Speaker A: Exactly. Because then they deal directly with you to get the image, and then you can say to them, hey, if you ever want some more content, let me know. I can do a shoot specifically for you and what you need. You would definitely pick up clients by doing that. I think it would be a good tactic. [00:14:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:39] Speaker A: What. What are you going to be doing in 2023 to try and make some money? Are you trying to make money with photography in 2023? [00:14:46] Speaker B: Yeah, because I want a new camera, so. [00:14:50] Speaker A: Okay, so if you had the camera you wanted, would you be trying to make money with photography or. [00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:55] Speaker A: Yeah, you would. You still want to. [00:15:00] Speaker B: Making money or just shooting and then I don't know if you got just shooting stuff that you like and you're getting paid for it. I reckon it's different to getting paid. Like, if you're doing weddings, you're, like, you're working, but if then, like, if you're out, say, with your buddies, snowboarding, and then you get some cool photos and they, you know, flick you a couple of bucks, I reckon they'll be more. And if, like, it'd be better for me, I'd enjoy it all. [00:15:27] Speaker A: Yeah, there's definitely. Well, it's. I've. I've done both a lot over the last ten years and, yeah, you know, there's been plenty of times I've worked for free to do, yeah. Projects that I'm really interested in. Snowboarding was one of them. I did a lot of free work before I got paid doing that. And even when I did get paid, it wasn't much, but I was still stoked to do it. But, yeah, at that point, I was still making money from shooting weddings and things, so I'd had to balance out with that to make sure that I still had enough money to live. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't have been able to survive purely off snowboard photography, that's for sure. But, yeah, it's. If you need a new camera, different story altogether. [00:16:11] Speaker B: That's it. Yeah. So, like, I'll do a few weddings here and there, see who wants me, who doesn't. Like. I've just updated my website, mainly focusing on smaller weddings as I don't have as much time as everyone else. [00:16:29] Speaker A: Who's everyone else? Like a full time photographers, like, okay, Jim, for example. Yeah. So you're worried about competing with, with people that do it full time. So you want to try and carve out something that's a bit of a different offering at a lower price point, I assume. Yeah, yeah, I, yeah. But for the people that don't need all day coverage and all that sort of stuff. [00:16:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Just, you know, they just want the ceremony load of couple of family photos. [00:16:56] Speaker A: Afterwards and weddings, weddings are obviously, they're a tough one because you've got a, you got to be very professional even if it's a side hustle, because you can't show up late, you can't have crappy camera gear, you can't have no backups, all that sort of stuff. But it's good. On the other hand, if your job, if you've got a Monday to Friday, nine to five job, you know, most weddings are on the weekends. That works perfectly. Like, you can, you can usually do both. [00:17:24] Speaker B: It's a good side hustle. [00:17:26] Speaker A: Yeah, a great side hustle. Before I went full time, I had booked in 23 weddings for the upcoming season and had shot a few while I was still working. So, yeah, it's probably the only business photography, business model I could think of at the time that I was able to kind of build while I was still working full time and then have enough guaranteed work to know that I could pay my bills, you know, because weddings booked so far in advance. That's the other thing. So, yeah, you know, I, when I quit my job, I had 23 booked already. So I was like, okay, even if a couple of these don't go ahead, I've still got quite a lot of work guaranteed, and then I could start hustling from there to try and grow the business. [00:18:11] Speaker B: Yeah, and then, yeah, obviously if you got onto a few like recurring commercial jobs as well, at least that way you have like, you know, income coming in. [00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that's the other thing. And that's obviously what, what worked for you for a while with real estate. You're not going to try and get into that again to fund your new camera? [00:18:33] Speaker B: No, I don't think so. [00:18:37] Speaker A: Going into people's bathrooms and moving stuff around, is that the major things? [00:18:42] Speaker B: PTSD, I think. Yeah. [00:18:44] Speaker A: Fair enough. [00:18:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:48] Speaker A: Doesn't ever see anything real weird in there? Anything like super super freaky. [00:18:54] Speaker B: Nah, there was nothing really bad otherwise. I think I'll remember it. Just, you know, people, like, don't go into this room because it's messy. And then you, you know, you look in there and you're like, oh, wow. Like, how do people live like that? [00:19:06] Speaker A: But you shut my house. I see. [00:19:12] Speaker B: Or like, oh, we've just cleaned up today. And you look around, you're like, what part of this did you clean? Yeah, and you're, like, stepping over stuff. It's just. I literally like, oh, here's. I took a couple of photos, walk out, call the real estate and be like, I can't take photos of this. Get me back when they're out. [00:19:31] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So. So mainly weddings. What about. What about working with businesses? Like, what about commercial stuff? So not real estate, but trying to, like you say, find some businesses that want ongoing work. Is that something you've ever done or worry about, like, or have thought about? [00:19:53] Speaker B: I've been thinking about it. So my partner, Eilish, she's been telling me for quite a while now, just, you know, like, reach out, start contacting companies. [00:20:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:06] Speaker B: You know, be like, I can do this one for free. And then later on, obviously, if they like it, they'll be like, all right, we need some more work done. But I been part time, haven't really been full time. It's like, are my photos good enough? I've just got that doubt in my head. [00:20:29] Speaker A: Good enough to shoot commercial stuff? Yeah, if. I mean, in my opinion, like, weddings are a little bit more stressful because a commercial shoot, you can always just say. You can just redo it or say sorry and, you know, not charge them or whatever. [00:20:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:44] Speaker A: You know, you can't redo a wedding day. Obviously, if there's a commercial shoot that's like a. You know, you've only got one chance at some huge thing. Maybe that's different. But, yeah, in general, they're a lot less stressful for me than shooting a wedding. And, like you say, you can start. I've always thought it would be interesting to go to businesses and offer them a free photo shoot where you give them. You literally shoot for free. You might even say, and I'll give you a couple of free photos. But from there, you can purchase photos from your shoot for something cheap, like $25 each or the whole shoot for 200, and just start cheap and then slowly sort of ratchet it up from there. It's one of those things a lot of people talk about, you know, don't undersell your photography. And don't undercut people, and don't charge too little, but to get your foot in the door. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving businesses basically an offer that they can't refuse so that you can build your portfolio and show them some value. It's. Yeah. Just charging a lot because people say that, you know, oh, don't undercut yourself. Like, you should charge what you're worth. But that doesn't mean people will pay it. [00:22:04] Speaker B: No. And people are just like, why would we pay you when we can take a photo on our phone? [00:22:10] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:22:10] Speaker B: But they just don't understand. But I've been reaching out to companies, though. [00:22:14] Speaker A: Um, who have you been reaching out to? [00:22:19] Speaker B: Some snowboarding companies in Japan. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Because you're going there next week. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Yep, yep, yep. Fly out Tuesday. But of, you know, I've messaged them, been like, look, I'm happy to come on a tour. I'll pay my own way. I'll take some photos for my portfolio. I can use them. You can use them to win. Win. [00:22:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:40] Speaker B: And I've had one response being, like, we do tours on these days. Rah, rah. But no, like, real, genuine response. And the other company didn't write back. A bar in town that I know the owner of. And you might know the owner of this one too. [00:23:00] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [00:23:01] Speaker B: Rooftop bar in town. [00:23:03] Speaker A: I'm aware of the one. Yes. [00:23:04] Speaker B: Yeah. I've actually shot there before. [00:23:07] Speaker A: Okay. [00:23:07] Speaker B: Part of the, like, the opening promotion. [00:23:10] Speaker A: I remember. [00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. [00:23:12] Speaker A: So I was drinking there that night. [00:23:14] Speaker B: Yeah. So I've messaged him again, and hopefully get up there sometime soon. [00:23:22] Speaker A: Yep, yep. And, I mean, that's. That's a big one. Like, food, obviously, it. It's hard to shoot. If you specialize in it, you can get good at it. And it used to be very sought after. It's probably a little bit more commoditized now because everyone's got a menu online and all that sort of stuff, so they've all had to have photography done at some point. But it's still. You know, there's still. There's a lot of restaurants in Bendigo alone, let alone the ability to travel. You could definitely make a name for yourself doing it, but it's. There's a lot more. I found there's a lot more to it than I like doing natural stuff. But the setup food shots that the people do, it's a lot of work. Yeah, they're very good, the people that do that. [00:24:07] Speaker B: Well, I was watching a YouTube episode the other day, and two photographers went out, I think, down Melbourne and they just went into every cafe and it's like, hey, I'm a photographer. Do you need any photography done for your website? Instagram? And I think they went into about ten cafes before they got one person to be like, yeah, I need photos. [00:24:29] Speaker A: And that's, you know, so. [00:24:32] Speaker B: And then they made $150. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah, and then, I mean, recurring work. [00:24:37] Speaker B: After that because I think the guy wanted photos of his car the next day. [00:24:41] Speaker A: And, yeah, it's just, just hustling, just going to ask people. I mean, that's it. Yeah, that's hard if you're doing it as a side hustle, but I mean, that's how they got, you know, you could, you could wait weeks to try and get someone to inquire with you on your website or something, and they just went out and found, yeah, speaking of websites, that was actually another thing I noted down here, that for someone that has the ability to make a nice, plain but nice squarespace website or something like that, if you're a photographer that has those skills, which you should have those skills, because if you want to make money from photography, you probably should have your own website. Actually, you definitely should have your own website. Don't rely on social media to be your home base for your business online. And if you can make a nice website for someone, the ability to walk into a business and say, hey, I can take the photos and make your website. Like, you don't have to do anything because getting the photos together and then getting a website made, business owners often don't have time to think about it, and they don't want to think about it. Like, if you wanted to offer a business something they couldn't refuse, you could take photos and make the website where they've had to pay nothing. And then once it's done, show it to them and say, if you would like this, it's $750, it's ready to go. Photography and website done. Like something, I'm just talking like two pages, you know, like just a basic business website doesn't have to be something super functional about us. [00:26:13] Speaker B: Menu. [00:26:14] Speaker A: Exactly. Whatever it is, depending on the type of business, just, just a very basic, you know, it could be a mechanic. It's just some photos of the workshop, it's some photos of the front. List the services, um, that, you know, very, very simple squarespace template or something like that. And hey, it's ready to go. [00:26:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:35] Speaker A: $1,000. Photography and website all done. And worst case, they say no. And you, I don't know. Use the template for someone else. [00:26:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's it. Just have a standard web. Standard setup for it. [00:26:49] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And then the next business, you find a, you know, a different style and make it suit them. But, yeah, most smaller businesses, they don't need the world's fanciest website. They just need something that's got up to date photography, you know, their location, decent SEO, sort of basic setup so that they're going to get found on Google, which is usually the thing that people get wrong. I don't know, I just. I see that as a big opportunity where you could merge a couple of skill sets together and just get it done for people without. Without them having to put too much work into it. [00:27:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Speaking of that, do you have a website? [00:27:31] Speaker A: I have a lot of websites, but I currently don't have one for my photography. But I have. So, yes, lucky straps, which is my main business. We make camera straps for photographers. You might have heard of it. [00:27:47] Speaker B: I might have. [00:27:48] Speaker A: You might have. But, yeah, luckystraps.com, that's our online store for that, which I made. But we've also got the website, justineandjim.com dot au, which is our wedding photography website, which I don't shoot many weddings anymore. Jim shoots pretty much all of them. But I help build that website as well. And I used to have my own personal website and I kind of let it lapse. But that's on the list for things to do this year is to bring that back and focus on the work that I've been doing with mountain bike photography, snowboard stuff. So more sports and the industrial work that I do. The industrial commercial stuff for rescue training, going into mines and working at heights and that sort of stuff. I really don't have somewhere to feature all of that and I don't update my Instagram enough, so I need my own website again. [00:28:48] Speaker B: Yeah, at least. Yeah, you can just have a portfolio on your website. And if you're not big on Instagram, which I don't think. I don't know, I think Instagram is a bit of a waste of time. Really gets more real reels now. Like, you don't get discovered now, you. Unless you're doing real. [00:29:09] Speaker A: Although. Did you see carousels? Did you see the. The news that. That everyone's talking about with Instagram? Let me, um. Let me see if I can find it. The article that I saw about Instagram's announcement for them, maybe making photography a bit more prominent again. See if I can find it. Might have been on PETA pixel. Do you ever go on PETA pixel? No, I think it's my go to news source generally for photography and videography stuff. Let me see. [00:29:54] Speaker B: Well, I know a lot of people go into Verona, like a lot of photographers were talking about. Yeah, it's basically Instagram again, but for more. For photographers. [00:30:07] Speaker A: Yeah, and maybe that's why Instagram starting to stress out a little bit. Let's see if I can find this. I'm sure unless someone's had to have it taken down. Sure. It was only this morning, but basically. Basically they were saying that they're looking to no longer have the reels button as the most pop, like the main button in Instagram. They're going to maybe change that to be slightly less. Yeah, this is the one I was looking for. That they over focused on video last year, obviously trying to compete with TikTok and. Yeah, that, you know, they have a number of photographers who have been upset and they're still leaning into video. But photographies will always be part of Instagram. So it sounds like maybe they won't push reels quite as hard against photos and maybe bring photo. Like, they might go back to where it's a bit more balanced. So I'm excited to see if that becomes, I don't know, comes back to normal a little bit. I mean, I posted a photo the other day and actually got a little bit of traction, which was weird. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I just know, like, all the photographers now they're not posting photos, they're posting videos of them taking photos. [00:31:42] Speaker A: Exactly. Because they're all pushed harder. [00:31:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And they'll be like, just. They're all got mirrorless straight in the viewfinder. Bring it out. You see it. It's just the same, same thing, but it's just like, just not posting their photos anymore. So it's like, are they actually enjoying taking the photos or they just making content? [00:32:01] Speaker A: Making behind the scenes content? [00:32:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:32:05] Speaker A: It's interesting. It's. I mean, that's a whole nother way to make. Make money with a camera. Is kind of being. Trying to become more of an influencer and get paid to promote things and stuff like that. But it's a. It's a tough road these days and a long road to build enough of an audience that you could make money from. From being an influencer. Is that something you've ever thought about, like, since you lean towards landscape photography, um, is an option. [00:32:41] Speaker B: I don't think I could be an influencer. [00:32:44] Speaker A: Why? [00:32:46] Speaker B: I'm just not. I don't know. I just don't think I influence enough people. Um, not that interesting. Well, I couldn't go out there and be like, oh, you know, walk around in a skimpy bikini that would jump into it. Yeah. Yeah, I just. I feel like it would be a lot of hard work. [00:33:11] Speaker A: Definitely. Yeah, I think it's. It takes people a long time. I follow a photographer. Sorry, videographer called Jason Morris. He's bought some straps office in the past and made some videos about us. And I follow him now. He's, he's a great videographer, but he's put a lot of work into reels. I don't know if he's on tick tock, but he definitely pushes reels and shorts really hard. And I don't know how long it takes him to make all that stuff. But man, I don't know how he gets any of his actual commercial work done because he puts out so much content. But it's worked like his following has grown by a huge amount, which is awesome. It's great to see, but, yeah, I can imagine he's. He's working hard to get that happening. [00:33:58] Speaker B: If you could definitely, like, dedicate the time to it. If you just made like 30 reels and just scheduled them day after day, I feel like you would pick up a lot of traction. But then you've got to keep it going. [00:34:12] Speaker A: Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. And, and you've got to be interesting too. Like you say, you got to put out content that people find exciting. Otherwise it's not going to get pushed by the magical Instagram algorithms and people won't see it. So. Yeah, it's not something I've ever really leaned into, but it would be interesting to try it. But I think I'm more excited about trying it with longer form YouTube stuff, like actual deeper content than reels. But that's the plan. That's part of the plan with this podcast. [00:34:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Speaking of that, how did the GoPro microphone go? [00:34:51] Speaker A: Yeah, good. I tried it on some. So we're talking about the media mod. Where is that gone for? Yeah, this thing for the hero eleven that I got. Not in focus, but you know, you know what it is. And I tested it out mountain biking, actually, on a chesty mount. I put the camera, the microphone to the back and it's weird. Like, it's good because it doesn't pick up any wind. So you hear a lot more noise of the bike, but you didn't hear the wheels on the dirt. It was quite strange, but you heard all the, like, rattling and stuff from the bike frame itself and a lot of breathing from the rider, which was funny, is that because it was up higher then it was just, I think because the microphone was pointing back towards the rider's chest. So a lot of the sounds must have been getting muffled. The sounds that you would normally hear really clear on the goPro, like wind and the tires on the dirt and. Yeah. So you sort of hearing different things. But I didn't actually try the front. I think the front probably would have been good. I just wanted to try the back because I thought it would get less wind noise. [00:36:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:04] Speaker A: But I definitely recommend keeping an eye on which mic you've got selected. If you're going to be using it in Japan to vlog and stuff. Like, if you're pointing it back at yourself, you want it on the. On the front mic, but if you're going to be pointing it out in front of you. So, like, walking through the street, talking to it or something, but you're not on camera, then you would want it on the back mic. [00:36:25] Speaker B: Yep. [00:36:26] Speaker A: But, yeah, it's pretty cool. Very cool. Very annoying to change the battery, though. Yeah, flat. You got to take it off the mount, slide it out of the case just to change the battery. It's. Yeah, it's quite, quite annoying. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Have you seen the other attachments? They've got the tripod. [00:36:45] Speaker A: Yeah. That has the. [00:36:47] Speaker B: Like the vlogger. Yeah, sort of setup. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:36:51] Speaker A: There's like a handle and. Yeah, that handles it as well. [00:36:54] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a power source I bought. [00:36:58] Speaker A: I don't know where I've put it. I bought the remote as well, which will actually be handy for. Because I was trying to film some content for reviewing this 16 mil lens. So I was just sitting the GoPro off to the side and then hitting record when. When the rider was about to come through. So that 16 mil lens is so much wider than 16 mil. It's crazy. [00:37:21] Speaker B: So you got some good stuff with it then. [00:37:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I've got to do some more testing, but, yeah, yeah, super fun. Definitely a interesting lens. [00:37:29] Speaker B: You'd be able to get nice and close to them. And when you. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, get real close. Get real wide. The only problem is the camera automatically puts, like a rectilinear lens profile to correct the lens from being a bit fisheye to make it flat, basically. So it stretches the corners out. And that's what. That's what sort of crops it into 16 mil when it actually seems like it's more like 14 or even wider. It's wider. Than 14, but it's got some crazy vignetting right at the edges. But the, in the viewfinder, you can only see it at 16, so you can't see exactly the extra you're getting later on. And then you bring it in a lightroom and sort of dial the profile corrections down and the image just gets bigger. I should see if I can pull it up. Let's see if this works. See if I can share my screen. [00:38:30] Speaker B: So going back to what we're talking about before getting Justin Castles, was it justincastles.com? [00:38:36] Speaker A: It was justincastles.com, yeah. That was my first website, my first photography website. [00:38:41] Speaker B: So with you getting that up and putting some more work on it, are you trying to get more work within those fields? Do you need a portfolio to be able to get those jobs? [00:38:53] Speaker A: I don't need one to get those jobs. I get. I get quite a bit of work because I've got a strong relationship with the main place that I do mountain bike photography and videography, which is flow mountain bike. But I did realize that if I wanted to push into different areas, maybe work for some bike manufacturers and things like that, obviously flow could help me connect with them and open the door. But if they googled me, then they basically won't see any content. I haven't posted anything under my name that I've done for the last two years for, for that kind of work. So I really need to pull it together in one place in case there is that point where someone you know is looking for. Looking for a photographer and I get recommended and then they google me and they, they see nothing. So I definitely need to do it. But I'm not, not necessarily looking for more work. If I was looking for anything, it would be looking for new challenges in that, that style of work and building new relationships. But I'm not, not necessarily trying to increase the volume of the work. Yeah. [00:40:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Because I know, as I was saying, before reaching out to those companies in Japan, I put in my, like, my Facebook or not my Facebook, my arm website and my Instagram. And I think they've looked at it because the analytics behind Squarespace tell you where people have viewed your website from? Oh, yeah. I. Both days I've messaged them, people from Tokyo have looked. So I'm like, coincidentally, yeah. But there's not much on my, as I said, an email, like, I'm starting a portfolio in this sort of area. But on my website I've got weddings and some pictures of a cow. [00:40:49] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:40:51] Speaker B: And they probably looked at them been like, why would we want him to come take a photo? [00:40:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Which is. Which is what I was saying in terms of, I think if you want to go on one of these snowboard tours anyway, and it's something that you'd like to do while you're traveling and you're happy to spend the money to do it, whether they want photography or not. Just pick the tour that you think will be the most fun for you, but take your cameras and go there with a. A plan to get some really good photos for your portfolio and then give them to them for free. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that's us gonna do, I think. Yeah, yeah. [00:41:31] Speaker A: And then just maybe get to build a relationship with them. But worst case, you come away with some images you want from your portfolio, for your portfolio, and you also get to have a fun experience that you were gonna do anyway, hopefully so. Yeah, because it is really hard if someone. Yeah. If you tell them that you can do, you know, snowboard photography on their tour and there's nothing on your website. [00:41:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:55] Speaker A: That even relates to that, it's very hard for them to make that leap. [00:41:59] Speaker B: Yeah. They're like, what's he know about it? Exactly. Yeah, there was a clothing brand as well over there, and they do some cool clothes, and I was nearly gonna message them. Then I looked at their story. They had, like, the photographer for Red Bull Japan taking photos for him, and I was just like, nope. [00:42:18] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, you're almost better off to contact the guy that shoots for Red Bull Japan and say, hey, if you need any behind the scenes shots of you working, let me know. Yeah, I'll follow you around for a day and create some content for reels and stuff like that. Just, you know, because, yeah, it's. Yeah, it's tough. So to get into doing snowboard work, I definitely like the first stuff I shot. I shot for free. I was on a tour anyway that I paid to go on, and I wanted to do that for fun. It wasn't. It actually had no strategy to try and, you know, become a snowboard photographer, anything like that. I was just super into it. I gave photos to all the people that were on the tour. I let the two to a company use them all for free, whatever you want. And then the relationship slowly evolved in the right direction by me giving them value, you know, like, they need to see value for before they'll then take a chance. It took them a while, and they took a chance on me by giving me a free trip. So I still had to work for free, but the trip was paid for. And I took that responsibility pretty seriously and worked my ass off as if I was getting paid my full day rate. And then that led to more trips and more trips. So, yeah, COVID ruined it all. [00:43:41] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah, I've got a buddy who I've messaged ever since my partner's told me to branch out and start messaging more people. I've probably been more active in the last two weeks than I've ever been before. I've got a buddy who, um, he snowboards up in Mount Bullo for a bit. [00:44:01] Speaker A: Okay. [00:44:02] Speaker B: And, like, all of his mates are, you know, like, all the main homies up there. And I just said, mate, whenever you're up there, let me know. I'll come up, take photos. You can use them for whatever. I just want to build up a strong portfolio. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah, perfect. [00:44:19] Speaker B: But there. It's more park, though, like. Yeah, I'm more. You know, what's like. Because what's behind you? Like someone shredding on a mountain. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's, um, from a halley trip in New Zealand. And. [00:44:32] Speaker B: Yeah, you can't. [00:44:32] Speaker A: You can't really see it, but it's, um. [00:44:34] Speaker B: You get the general. [00:44:36] Speaker A: Yeah, you get the general idea. It was the most amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's, um. You've got to be in the. To get in the locations to get the shots. The shots aren't actually that hard to take, you know, like. Yeah, it's just being there when it's happening, that's. That's the hard part. So, yeah, if you can crack that, but going up to Bulla, at least you'll be able to fill your website up with. With the right kind of stuff. And that. That is where it does get tricky, where if you want to make some money shooting weddings, but you also want to, you know, try and crack into sport. You know, you almost need two websites or maybe, you know, use the website for booking weddings and making some money on that side of it. But then you have a separate Instagram profile or something like that that you run, you know, something that's. That's more focused on the area of work that you're trying to grow long term. Your main passion and your main focus. Yeah, it is tricky to. To try and do it all under one brand. [00:45:41] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I don't promote any of my wedding stuff on my Instagram. [00:45:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:46] Speaker B: Where I feel like a lot of people will find people on Instagram. [00:45:51] Speaker A: Yeah, they do, for sure. And they want to see proof that you're the safe choice. So even if they found you on the website. They'll probably still want to look at an Instagram feed and be. And see lots of work on there and stuff like that, you know, that's why, that's why Jim booked so many weddings. Because if someone looks at our website and our Instagram and stuff, they could, they just see just hundreds of weddings of couples, and it's like, okay, they're going to show up and they're going to do a good job. That's safe. Yeah. So the more. And I mean, hey, we started, I started with. Booked my first wedding. Booked my first wedding was actually an ex girlfriend, and I shot her wedding for $500, I think it was. [00:46:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:40] Speaker A: And at that point, I had just taken some photos at my sister's wedding. I wasn't the main photographer there, but I just took some photos while I was there with the main photographers permission. And then I booked with the photos from my sister's wedding and from that, from my ex girlfriend's wedding, I booked my first actual wedding package. [00:47:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:05] Speaker A: Which was like a $3,000 wedding package because it included two photographers. And that's when I, that's when I booked Jim. Like, that's when I met Jim, basically, or started our professional relationship, because I needed a second photographer, because I'd created this. I created a, you know, a low package, a medium package, and then a high package and pricing, you know, kind of structure. Everyone's like, oh, everyone will book the medium package. So you need to have a low one and a high one and the high one to make it higher. I made it two photographers all day and made it $3,000. And so people would maybe book the one that was like 2200 or something for the middle one, but the first main client that I got booked, the top one. So then I had to go out and find the second photographer, and that was Jim. And that's how Justin and Jim was born. [00:48:00] Speaker B: Yeah, right. How did that first wedding go then? [00:48:05] Speaker A: It was stressful, but pretty good. Pretty good considering they were fun. Really. Cruisy couple was in a chuka. It was a great wedding, but, yeah, it was, it was stressful because you just don't know what they're expecting. And honestly, I still have that trouble now, even though I know, I know I can do a great job in any situation, and. But it's. It's knowing, it's wondering what expectation they have and whether you're gonna fit that or not. That's what stresses me out, because they might be imagining something completely different. [00:48:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:43] Speaker B: At least down. Like, obviously, you've got a pretty big website, a lot of photos. They should know what they're getting. [00:48:52] Speaker A: That's what I was saying, is that's what makes us the. The safe choice is. [00:48:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:55] Speaker A: You know, they can look on there for hours and just see so many photos from so many different situations and different couples and. And all that sort of stuff. And it makes it very, very clear what we do. So it would be odd for someone to book us and then go, oh, this isn't what I wanted. Because we do the same thing at every wedding, you know. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:18] Speaker A: What else can make money with a camera in 2023, I know what I wouldn't be doing, and that's trying to sell nfts. I don't think. I don't think I'd be worrying about that too much in 2023. Certainly not saying they're dead or anything. And if you know all about it, then go for it. But if you're just thinking of ways to try and make money with a camera, NFTs would not be one I would put at the top of the list. [00:49:44] Speaker B: I've got three made. [00:49:47] Speaker A: Three nfts? [00:49:48] Speaker B: Yeah. None sold. [00:49:50] Speaker A: Ah. Nonsold? [00:49:51] Speaker B: No. Yep. [00:49:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I didn't know you. I didn't know you'd made any. That's interesting. [00:49:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:56] Speaker A: Do you have any story? How did it go? What did you do? [00:50:01] Speaker B: I was just following a photographer on Instagram, and he's a pretty big landscape photographer, and he was getting into the NFTs and I sort of just. He was posting and posting and I just got onto Twitter and he was posting on there. Cause that's where I think most of them start posting about their nfts. And I messaged him and like, mate, I need a. You need a code to be able to log on from another creator. So I was messaged him. I'm like, mate, I'm looking to. You know, I think it was. Could have been founder, maybe, could be the website. I no longer have access to it, but. So I got onto that and I didn't realize that you actually had to pay money to mine the NFT. I have no idea how it works. So, like, you pay for it to be created and then everything minted. [00:50:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:59] Speaker B: And then everything you do after that, you've got to pay again. So, like, I think mine's worth point one ethereum. [00:51:07] Speaker A: Okay. [00:51:08] Speaker B: And then if you want to change it to 0.05 ethereum, you've got a, like, pretty much re mint it. [00:51:14] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:51:15] Speaker B: So then you got to pay again. So you really spending like $50 per mint and then you've got to try and sell it. [00:51:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:25] Speaker B: And then people buy nfts of like, weird stuff and you're like, what? I didn't like. I was doing it, I didn't understand and I wouldn't do it again. [00:51:36] Speaker A: There's a lot of hype around it. I didn't, I didn't get too deep in it, but I did meet a lot of people that were deep into that world and had projects or, you know, bought and sold. Yeah. Fairly expensive nfts and. Yeah, I still don't quite understand it. I think the technology is super interesting and something will come of it, but as of right now, 2023, it's probably not something that's worth, worth pursuing when, you know, you could just go and find a real client in your hometown and create some value for them and. And they'll pay you. Yeah. But it's very cool that you tried it. [00:52:14] Speaker B: Yeah, the photos I used weren't like, weren't nft worthy, I don't think. [00:52:20] Speaker A: Yeah, but what is. [00:52:21] Speaker B: I mean, exactly. [00:52:22] Speaker A: You can, you can nft anything. So if you're not gonna do nfts or stock photography in 2023, another thing that I saw, I was actually, I did a little bit of research for this podcast and some of the lists of how to make money with a camera that come up, they're pretty interesting. There's a lot of suggestions on creating an online course or creating an online course or selling presets. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:52] Speaker A: Which was super interesting because I was like, the only times that that would be applicable for someone who's googling how to make money with their camera is if they've somehow mastered an amazing style of photography, but they just have never pushed into the business world. But, you know, they're the best nightscape photographer in the world, or not the best, but, you know, they create amazing work and they could make a course around it. And I'm like, okay, that makes sense. But for the average, you know, people like you and me, if you're at the point where you're just trying to make, you know, you'd have to have it, you'd have to have a very big following and you'd have to have a unique skill or a very good ability to communicate if you're going to do an online course or something like that. But say, for presets, you either need a giant following or you need presets that are really specific to, you know, some sort of style of photography or you need to be like Kirk Masten from masten Labs and make the best film presets for lightroom that are available. That's different. But that's a whole business. Like, he's. He's, you know, he spent years building a business that's able to do that. It's not just like, hey, I'm a landscape photographer, and I'm gonna sell my presets. So, yeah, it was pretty fun reading through some of those lists of how to. How to make money, like, launch an online course. [00:54:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. Frono. Frono. [00:54:25] Speaker A: Fronos photo.com. [00:54:28] Speaker B: Yeah, he pumps his presets. [00:54:31] Speaker A: His presets. But, hey, look, more power to him. I would actually like to buy one of his packs and do a review. I'm going to buy. I'm going to buy the new mast and labs pack that come out and do a review on it. I've never reviewed presets before. Do you, have you ever bought presets? [00:54:47] Speaker B: Yep. Yep. The Peter McKinnon v three and v four. [00:54:52] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. How do you use them? [00:54:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So most of my autumn photos on my Instagram would have been the v three version of Peter McKinnon. [00:55:05] Speaker A: Okay. [00:55:06] Speaker B: Just like the. It's just good, you know, like, I was getting it, like, similar anyway, but then it's just good to see, like, where they're getting it from. That's the only reason I brought them. It was like, to see, to learn, and to see how close I was getting it. Like, just, you know, like, they're obviously, you know, you click it and then you move it to wherever you need it to be. So it's just like a baseline. [00:55:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I agree. I read an article that said, stop wasting money on presets. You know, you should never buy presets from some. I think they called them influencer photographers, you know, like Peter McKinnon or something like that, that are just flogging their presets and stuff. And I was like, look, presets aren't that expensive. If you don't. If you're short on money, don't. Don't waste your money on one. Just, I don't know, go on YouTube and try and learn how to edit and make your own. But if you've got, you know, $50 to spend on a preset pack or something like that. And like you say, learn, especially if it's from a photographer that you've followed for a while. So you've seen their work. And what I found is I've been able to take a preset, because one thing I've noticed is, with most presets packs, is they're very heavy handed, and they don't suit all types of, like, you couldn't put them across an entire shoot. They're very. When someone sells a preset, they want to, like, do something. Wow. But then if you put it on the wrong type of photo, it looks horrendous. [00:56:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Changes colors way too much. [00:56:35] Speaker A: Yeah. Whereas my. I've always been, like, chasing this perfect preset that looks the way I want it to look, the way I'd like it to look in my head, but it works on every photo. That's my dream. [00:56:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:46] Speaker A: I still haven't figured it out yet, but to try and get closer to it, I'm getting close to maybe I'll sell my presets one day to get closer to it. I have bought presets in the past, and then I've ended up taking bits and pieces from, you know, like, maybe it's the way that they did. They worked with, like, the HSL sliders or something like that. [00:57:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:09] Speaker A: And I've learned something from that. And then I've been able to tweak a different preset with that style and slowly morph into. And that's honestly the wedding preset that you will still see on all of Jim's work. And all of my work going back five years, probably is still very close to the preset I made five years ago. We've probably tweaked it a couple of times slightly, but, like, it's any. It was born from a VSCO preset that, again, was. Was like a film style one, but it was too heavy handed. And I basically reworked it so that it was just more universal. And we put that, on the whole. We put that on the entire day, start to finish, every single photo, same preset, and then we do tweak from there. [00:57:51] Speaker B: Yeah. The lightroom presets that they've got on now aren't too bad. Like, they've got the things like light skin, medium skin, deep skin, or dark skin. Yeah, they're pretty. Pretty good. [00:58:04] Speaker A: They've. They've definitely. Lightroom have put some work into that side of it to try and. Yeah, have an offering, because they never used to have much that was useful. But, yeah, I've been. I've been playing around with a lot, but that's the next thing on my list. Washington masten Labs released a new preset pack. I think it's called founder plus or something. And he's modified his film presets to be more universal and less aggressively film emulating. And I'm like, that's what I usually do to his stuff, if I've bought it in the past. So I'd like to see what he's done. And then the other one is. Yeah, I'd love to buy something, like, from Peter McKinnon or from fro or something, just to see. I just want to see what they're like. [00:58:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:49] Speaker A: See what. And do. Do a review of it. Very interesting. [00:58:53] Speaker B: I have the Peter McKinnon ones, if you want them. [00:58:56] Speaker A: Well, we can't. We can't do that. That's illegal, isn't it? If you were to show me, maybe I can use them on your computer. [00:59:02] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. [00:59:02] Speaker A: I know what I feel like. [00:59:04] Speaker B: You should get the frono photo. [00:59:07] Speaker A: Yeah. A fro pack, pro pack, nine or whatever he's up to. [00:59:10] Speaker B: He's got a bundle going at the moment. [00:59:12] Speaker A: Does he? Yeah, you'll have to buy it. Oh, let me see if I can share my screen. Let me show you this 16 mil lens. It's crazy. [00:59:22] Speaker B: From the weekend tire screen. [00:59:27] Speaker A: This was from Monday. No, that's not it. That's not it. That's a messy desktop. No, it's not working. [00:59:40] Speaker B: Those screenshots of us. [00:59:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, there were. For some reason, I can't get it to do its thing. Try again. There we go. So that was shot with the 16 mil, and that's with corrections on. So, profile corrections. But if I turn the. So I've got profile corrections enabled. I'm going to leave them enabled, but just pull the distortion down and watch how much more of the scene you can get in. Yeah, right before, like, that's where the vignetting gets aggressive. But. And obviously, if there were lines in this. Yeah, about 28 or 30. If there were lines in it of a building or something like that, you might have to work around. And it's going to have a bit of a fish eye look, but, yeah, if you compare that to, you know. [01:00:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like you crop and writing, isn't it? [01:00:53] Speaker A: Yeah, but that's what takes it to, like, a rectilinear 16 mil. But I actually. I used it. Yeah. Mainly for that sort of more of a fish eye look. It was super handy. So, yeah, I'm keen to explore it a bit more. The light wasn't. Light was pretty harsh this day, but, yeah. Yeah. Keen to have a play with it and see what else we can get out of it. [01:01:22] Speaker B: Did you use your drone? [01:01:24] Speaker A: No, I still don't have a license to fly in the alpine regions. So they, they have additional rules up there. [01:01:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:32] Speaker A: And even national park. No, I think it's just because it's a private alpine thing. So they just have their own rules. I think they just obviously want to stop people from flying drones all through winter while they're running ski lifts and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, I do need to get onto the drone license thing. Are you going to do yours? [01:01:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yep, definitely come back from Japan and should book it in. [01:01:58] Speaker A: We'll book it in together. [01:01:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:00] Speaker A: You still enjoying the, the air two s? [01:02:04] Speaker B: Yep. I think it's an awesome drone. The only thing I would, the only thing I would change is the fact that doesn't do vertical. [01:02:13] Speaker A: Oh yeah, for reels. [01:02:17] Speaker B: Yeah, reels. Instagram. Um, like it doesn't really. That's probably the word, like the worst thing because I had the, just the first mavic and you could do vertical on that and that was. Yeah. [01:02:33] Speaker A: Really? I thought the, um, I thought the other than the big drones, I thought that mini three pro was the first one to do vertical. [01:02:43] Speaker B: No, um, it was on a weird setting though. You have to like swipe the screen while you're flying and then choose vertical. Because I've seen a couple of photographers being like, I wish this would do vertical. And I'm like, no, it actually can. [01:02:56] Speaker A: Yeah, interesting. [01:02:59] Speaker B: And the other thing would be just the controller. I wish I had a designated controller. Like probably what you've got. [01:03:11] Speaker A: So upgrading to the mavic three classic from the air to s. You can get this controller for the air to s. But this thing is. Oh look. Yeah, it's reflecting this. It's so good, so good. Just so much faster. You don't have to plug stuff in. I love this control. Yeah. But obviously I could have just bought that for the air two s. The big, the big upgrade, other than wanting the bigger sensor and that kind of stuff was actually, I was really keen on variable aperture because I do video and photo and changing nd filters and stuff was a pain in the ass. And now I can basically, I might get a, like try and get a one stop nd filter or something just to knock down the light a tiny bit. But even without it, I can basically shoot video on photo in the same lighting conditions without having to land the drone and take an ND filter off, which is a game changer for what I do. [01:04:15] Speaker B: You just push, push the aperture a bit and then. [01:04:18] Speaker A: Yeah, makes it more shoot. Yeah, I'll shoot at 2.8 for a photo and then shoot it, like, if I have to f nine or whatever. Yeah, like, yeah, whatever. Just crush that light. [01:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you use the. Does that have the joysticks on it? Do you have to add them on, like, you know? Yeah, yeah. [01:04:39] Speaker A: They're stored, but I actually. When I'm. So when they're away, in my case, I'll store them in the back here. But when I'm shooting, mountain biking or something like that, I'll leave them on. And I've set up my bag so that there's a spot where I can leave them on. So I literally just have to turn the controller on. And I. One other trick that I learned recently is turn the controller on before we get started on a shoot. Like, when I'm getting my bike set up and stuff, I'll turn the controller on and let it acquire then the drone and let it acquire all the satellites and stuff. [01:05:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:10] Speaker A: Because the first time it does that, it takes a long time. [01:05:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:13] Speaker A: If you're in the general area, the next time, it's way faster. So I do that before I actually start shooting most days. [01:05:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. I actually don't use the actual joysticks. I don't screw them on what I feel like it's. You have more control. Try it now. Like, you have more control with your thumbs, I reckon, when you don't use the joysticks. [01:05:36] Speaker A: Nah, this controller is different. I don't know if yours have a rounded dome. [01:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:45] Speaker A: And a screw hole. [01:05:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:47] Speaker A: I don't know if you. I don't know if my camera will focus. [01:05:49] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. It's down a bit, isn't it? [01:05:51] Speaker A: It's like, in. And it's not a screw hole. It's a little, like, post. [01:05:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:57] Speaker A: Tough to see, but. Yeah, you can't. You wouldn't be able to go all the way to the edges. [01:06:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:03] Speaker A: With. Without the thing screwed in. [01:06:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, there you go. Yeah. You can't do that. [01:06:09] Speaker A: No. Can't do that. But also, I couldn't. I'm. I'm terrible at playing video games as it is. I need all of the help I can get. I'm flying this drone and not hitting trees, but so far so good. I'm loving it. I'm really digging the mavic three. It's. It's a little bit bigger, a little bit heavier in the bag, but. Yeah, I. Color grading is better for me. Stills are a little bit better. Not. Not a game changer. Like, the air to s was fine. [01:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:33] Speaker A: The small clips that get put into videos, but, yeah, digging it. [01:06:39] Speaker B: Actually, you have a cool drone shot idea in my head for Bendigo. Oh, do it as if it was, you know, the stock photography we're talking about. [01:06:48] Speaker A: I think you should do that. [01:06:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it would be, um. It'd be, like, interesting. And it also be, like, a bit of a challenge as well, to get some cool shots. Bendigo? [01:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And just fill that website up with stuff. So if you've got, like, you know, a free evening and the sun setting or something, you just pick a location, just go and shoot it. Like, all the pop it heads, all that stuff. Like, you just never know when someone's gonna need that for advertising or with government. Use it for stuff. Like, they all need stuff and they might want something new, and you just put a decent price on it. That's not stupid, you know, you don't make it. Thousand dollars to license a photo. Should check in case someone's actually done this before for Bendigo. I know people have done it for other towns. Yeah, I bet you there is one. That'd be funny. [01:07:34] Speaker B: I know there's a joint photographer in Bendigo that stock photography on his website. [01:07:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. So he's. But mainly, like, for his drone stuff. [01:07:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:52] Speaker A: Wow, this is interesting. Your digital presence is about to take off. Bendigo stock photography. Yeah, it looks like someone's doing it. Wow. [01:08:05] Speaker B: Can we sell it to them, then? [01:08:07] Speaker A: Who's. Who's made this, though? Because they also do SEO services and website design and stuff. Yeah. Sign up today. Photos of Bendigo. Oh, it's AJ Taylor. Well, that's cool. He's a photographer in Bendigo. Okay, so someone's already doing it. You'll have to compete with him. And it looks like he's doing a great job of it, so good luck. I thought I had a unique and interesting idea. But. [01:08:43] Speaker B: That'S the thing, though. Now it's like, you think you've got an idea? Go on to Google. Google. [01:08:47] Speaker A: It actually wouldn't surprise me that you could talk to me. He probably accepts, you know, submissions off other photographers. Yeah, depending on what he's willing to. Yeah. [01:09:02] Speaker B: Doesn't say how much he's selling them for. [01:09:07] Speaker A: The links to his pricing and stuff doesn't actually work. So maybe it's not as advanced as I think it is. It's got a lot of followers. 600 followers on Instagram. But, yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Doesn't mean there isn't room for more, but I didn't know anyone was doing that specifically for our hometown yet. [01:09:38] Speaker B: That's the thing, though. You always, like, even when I was setting up my website for the weddings, I'm like, why would. There's always more room for people to do stuff. [01:09:51] Speaker A: Like, you don't want to let the fear that someone. That there's other people doing it already stop you from trying. [01:09:57] Speaker B: Yeah, that's basically what I'm trying to say. [01:10:00] Speaker A: Yeah. But you can make a calculated decision, though, too. If there's already ten people doing it way better than you, maybe there's a different angle you can take at it, rather than trying to compete with someone that's, you know, killing it or whatever. [01:10:13] Speaker B: But. [01:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So just finding everyone's got a different price point, different style they're after, you know, like, customers. There's so many different customers that people can fill the needs of where you don't really have to compete. You just find something that you do well and do that. Yeah. Pet photography, anything. Have you thought about pet photography? [01:10:42] Speaker B: I have. I marketed it for a little bit. I feel like Bendigo, it might be, like, a good spot to do it now, but when I was trying, I don't think many people were. It was before COVID I had a couple people message me, and then I'd say the prices, and they're like, oh, I don't really want to pay that much to get a photo of my cat. [01:11:07] Speaker A: Yeah, but you got to start cheap. [01:11:11] Speaker B: You see people down in, like, there's one in lady in Melbourne that does it. Mm hmm. And she is charging mega bucks and selling albums and the rest of it. [01:11:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. If you. If you build the name in the portfolio, there's a few people. Great photos, I think. What's that other one? Ragamuffin photography. [01:11:31] Speaker B: That's the one I'm talking about. [01:11:32] Speaker A: Oh, that's the one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the photos are good, though. Yeah, real good. [01:11:37] Speaker B: There's a lady down in Philip Island, I think, as well. Mm hmm. [01:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:44] Speaker B: I was really researching that back in the day, but I feel like if you went down to a dog park, offered, like, $5, $10 for one photo, you'd nearly. I reckon you'd sell a few on, like, a busy Saturday or something. [01:12:04] Speaker A: Definitely. I mean, you could try it a different angle. I mean, you've got a few different networks, friends networks. The gym. The gym that we go to. There's a lot of dogs there. Throw something out there where you more go, you know, $50 sessions. [01:12:19] Speaker B: Yep. [01:12:20] Speaker A: But, you know, at a sort of a similar location or whatever on the same day and just try and cram them in because you can probably get plenty done in 20 minutes or something like that. [01:12:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:32] Speaker A: With a dog and a couple of people or whatever, and just do that to get, you know, just try and get six people that'll pay $50, then you've got a portfolio. And then, you know what would actually maybe give you a bit of an advantage? Let people take their dogs with you on a little bit of an adventure and mix the landscape photography into it too, you know? [01:12:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:56] Speaker A: You're putting them in a beautiful landscape spot, so you're getting. Getting the close ups first, and then as the sun sets or something, you get this amazing landscape photo with them and their dog out at some cool location. And that's something you could charge a lot of money for. [01:13:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:09] Speaker A: If you became known for it. [01:13:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So it'd be like, um, what do they call it? Destination weddings. But instead of being destination pet photography. [01:13:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Like an adventure elopement, but with your dog. Yeah, yeah, I would pay for that. I think people would pay money for that. I think you might have just found your niche. [01:13:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that would be a cool niche. But they always say you don't work with kids or dogs or animals. [01:13:34] Speaker A: Someone's got to. Yeah, someone's got to. I don't know. You got nothing to lose too, cuz. Yeah. Worst case, you try it for a little while, you do a few and you go, that. That didn't work. That's, you know, it's too hard or something. But yeah, I. I have a cool shot that I took with, you know, I did it myself, but that I took with Ted. I love it. My screen. And it's a landscape nightscape kind of thing. Share screen set in the middle of the road. Yeah, yeah. The Instagram that I never update. Where is it? There's the pooch. Yeah, this one, you know. Yeah, like, that is cool, doing stuff like that. Yeah, love it. People. People would love to have something like that. Or epic sunset up on the ridge of a mountain or whatever with their dog. Yeah. And you've got a drone as well, like. Yeah, you could do very cool stuff and then obviously mix that in with, you know, the close up dog shots that people want. [01:14:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:51] Speaker A: You know, to get along with it. [01:14:53] Speaker B: Well, at the time I was living with my partners, like, we were living at her mum's house because we were saving for a house and I actually booked out a day and I brought like a backdrop, a few lights. [01:15:07] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:15:07] Speaker B: And we brought in, I think it was maybe three or four dogs for the day. [01:15:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:13] Speaker B: And done, like, actual, like, studio shoot. [01:15:16] Speaker A: Yep. [01:15:19] Speaker B: Which I didn't really like much. And it was very hard. It was a lot of hard work trying to get the dog to stay still where you wanted them to be without their owner. [01:15:29] Speaker A: They're the, they're the shots that are really difficult. And I think you just steer away from that and steer into more the shots with them interacting with their owner somewhere fun. And you use whatever lenses. You know, you use a bit of a longer lens so you can capture them as they're moving around and stuff like that, where you go wide and getting close. But, yeah, work. Work with the situation instead of. Yeah, I've had to do the same kind of thing. And trying to get a dog to sit and stay and using flash in a studio setting, it's tricky. The people that do that are, they're good at what they do, but they're often, you know, experts more than they are photographers. [01:16:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I've been out, like, obviously our dog has an instagram. That's while she was a puppy. We'll get some really cool photos of. We obviously let that go a little bit. But, um, even my sister, she's had a couple of dogs and we've gone out on a few good walks with her and got some pretty cool photos. So it's definitely a good idea. [01:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I think it's something to, um, something to think about. For your 2023, buy a new mirrorless camera business adventure. Adventure. How much money do you need to buy it? Like, how much money you got to make from photography so you can afford. What do you. What camera you getting? Don't know. [01:16:58] Speaker B: R five. [01:17:00] Speaker A: Five. Okay. [01:17:01] Speaker B: Yeah. I've been looking into the Sony's and I just, I just can't change my mind past five. [01:17:08] Speaker A: It's a great camera. Great webcam, I'm telling you. Look at it. [01:17:11] Speaker B: Great webcam. Look how crispy webcam. [01:17:13] Speaker A: Look how crisp I am. [01:17:14] Speaker B: It's also the fact if I want to do more action sports as well, so snowboarding even. Um, got a few mates who do motocross. Yep, the r five. It's not that quick. Oh, sorry. The ace seven. Five. [01:17:37] Speaker A: Yes, sorry. [01:17:38] Speaker B: Yeah, sorry. R five. But the Sony version. [01:17:40] Speaker A: Yeah, the Sony. [01:17:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it doesn't shoot that quick. [01:17:43] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, um. Yeah, it's a bit slow. The canon did a good job to, to make all of the, like, the r six mark to the r five and. And obviously the r three. But they're all fast. Like, real fast. [01:17:55] Speaker B: The two is quick. [01:17:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. 40 frames a second. [01:17:59] Speaker B: Yeah. That is if that didn't have. But there's a 24 megapixel. [01:18:05] Speaker A: Yep. [01:18:06] Speaker B: If it wasn't that, I'd probably get that. [01:18:08] Speaker A: That's what I shoot with r three is 24 megapixel. [01:18:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:12] Speaker A: You just. I don't know. I've printed a lot of photos and obviously that the extra resolution is delightful when you have it, but it's certainly not needed. [01:18:22] Speaker B: Don't need it. [01:18:23] Speaker A: No. The autofocus from the three reals was just a game changer. Yeah. You know, a sharp 24 megapixel photo for me is worth way more than. Than a missed 45 megapixel photo, you know, so. But for you, yeah, the five reals is probably better all rounder. It's still fast. Like, it's still, you know, it does both. The electronic shutter is not great for action sports, so I would really only rely on twelve frames a second. But twelve frames a second is still. That just a few years ago was what, the best body you could buy, like, the one Dx mark one or two was still in that twelve frames a second range, you know, like. Yeah, it's insane. [01:19:06] Speaker B: I think we're just spoiled now. [01:19:08] Speaker A: We are spoiled now. Crazy spoiled for cameras. [01:19:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And I don't think I could ever shoot, like, holding a camera like that. Like, I'm always going to be to. [01:19:20] Speaker A: Your eye, you'd be surprised if you start doing video stuff. Um, you shoot video with it out a lot of the time. [01:19:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:27] Speaker A: And then. And then you start doing photos that way a little bit sometimes too. I do both now. It's weird. I don't know. I thought I would never, but, yeah, I still catch myself taking photos off the back screen sometimes. Sometimes it's just better for interacting with people sometimes, yeah. Way better. [01:19:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:43] Speaker B: And the situation, I guess. [01:19:45] Speaker A: Never say never. [01:19:46] Speaker B: Yeah. But I do guess on a landscape photo shoot, I will have it on a tripod and I'll be off the back screen. [01:19:53] Speaker A: The back screen, yep. [01:19:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:56] Speaker A: So. [01:19:57] Speaker B: But when I'm shooting weddings, I would never shoot off a back screen. Never say never with the camera I have now. [01:20:06] Speaker A: Oh, no. Definitely nothing. Definitely not with the old dslrs. Okay. I think we've done a pretty good job of talking about all the ways that you can make money. Not all the ways, but the ways that most people that are sort of trying to build a bit of a side hustle can make money without cameras. Have you ever sold prints? [01:20:31] Speaker B: I've sold a few, yeah. Not as many as I'd like. I don't really market myself as well as I could. [01:20:39] Speaker A: It's. It's one that's kind of like. It's like a mixture of. It's different. It's like a mixture of presets and stock photography, but in a different way. It's like, yeah, if you had a good following, obviously you're not selling prints. Generally not selling prints to other photographers, but if you have a following of non photographers, you're going to have a better chance of selling your prints and, yeah, and then, yeah, it's, it's. I don't know. Obviously you need, you need great work as well. It's. It's doable. It's another tough one, though. [01:21:14] Speaker B: I'm gonna go to a market, I think, this year, maybe just get a few printed out and just, you know, have a certain amount and just see how they go. Yeah, yeah. [01:21:25] Speaker A: People just. It needs to suit their house and their style and stuff like that. People don't care as much about who made it anymore. They're more, you know, unless you have that following and you can tell a story about you as the artist and things. But, yeah, at a market or something, often people are just looking and thinking, oh, yeah, that'll suit, I'll buy that. [01:21:45] Speaker B: Yeah, but, and I feel like if it's in their face too, they're more likely gonna be like, yep, I want that. Instead of, it's like, you know, when you go to a shop and you see something, you're like, oh, I really want that. But if you're on a website, you'd be like, oh, no, you know what? I'll get it next week. And then you just forget about it. [01:22:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Whereas I tell you what, they will definitely buy a big print of, and that's them and their dog sitting on the ridge at sunset. You know, that's a much nicer print to have in someone's house than, than some generic sunset photo of a place. [01:22:22] Speaker B: Yep. [01:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah. That's what I'd be leaning into. One of the notes I had down here was, you know, to make money with your camera, you just have to create value for people. So you gotta find where, where you can create value for people and lean into that as hard as you can. [01:22:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:40] Speaker A: And, you know, are you creating a lot of value at a market with photos and compared to doing something that's special and unique for a client, whether it's helping them grow their business or, you know, creating memories of their pet or something like that? Yeah, there's a lot of value to create there. That's my opinion. [01:23:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Because. Yeah. Having a photo of, say, I've got a few photos of robe. [01:23:12] Speaker A: Mm hmm. [01:23:14] Speaker B: And they're like, I've never been there, so why would I want a photo of that? [01:23:18] Speaker A: Yes. [01:23:18] Speaker B: Where. Yeah. And then if they're taking a. Getting a print done of that trip that we done with them and their pet, it brings back the memory. So every time they see that, they'll remember, like, how they're feeling. [01:23:34] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:23:34] Speaker B: The whole trip. Yeah. Same, same for any shoot, I guess. [01:23:38] Speaker A: That's exactly it. That's exactly it. We should probably. We should probably wrap this thing up. Let me see what other notes I had here. Is there anything else you want to talk about? [01:23:50] Speaker B: Not on that making money sort of genre. Well, I think we're pretty good. [01:23:59] Speaker A: Save it for the next episode. If there's some other things, save it for Jim. Yeah. When Jim's back. Yeah. If anyone made it this far in the podcast, leave a comment, tell us what you thought, what he wants to talk about on the next episode, and thank you. [01:24:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:18] Speaker A: Episode two in the books done live. I'll talk to you next week. [01:24:25] Speaker B: No worries. See you later. [01:24:27] Speaker A: Have a good night.