EP60 Photo Kaizen and New Camera Rumours! The Random Photography Show

[00:00:06] Speaker A: Ready, Justin? I don't know why we do that. Loves it. [00:00:13] Speaker B: It's a great song. [00:00:19] Speaker A: Just let it play for a bit. [00:00:21] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah, everyone can wait. We just like this song. [00:00:26] Speaker A: They've waited this long. All right, let's kick it off. Welcome, everybody. This is the Camera Life podcast, the random photography show. It's the 17th of March. All of a sudden it's the first quarter's almost done, Justin. [00:00:39] Speaker B: I know. [00:00:40] Speaker A: 2025. It's currently 7:30pm we are coming to you live from Victoria, Australia, from three different locations. I'm located in a city in South Yarra, Justin. Somewhere near Bendigo. In Bendigo and joined in Bendigo. Always been in Bendigo. He's never left. Even just to do shopping. He's never left the. The city. [00:01:02] Speaker B: That's right. [00:01:03] Speaker A: And we're also joined tonight by Matt Palmer, who is a highly acclaimed and awarded photographer. Landscape photographer. He, along with our past guest, M. Boynton, runs the Photo Light Photography. Sorry, Alpine Light. Alpine Light Photography Gallery in Bright. And he's joining us today to talk about a new endeavor. So stick around for that. We're going to talk about that. We're going to cover off some news. Justin wants to talk about the moon. There's a whole bunch of stuff that we're going to cover off in the next hour or so, but yeah, welcome, Matt. [00:01:44] Speaker B: Thanks, man. A few words. [00:01:47] Speaker A: Good to have you on board. How's your weekend, Justin? How's your weekend? [00:01:54] Speaker B: Weekend was busy. Had a photo shoot which is pretty rare these days. I mean, I do, I take a lot of photos, but this was like a corporate kind of a commercial photo shoot with Jim and it was. It was quite fun because I ended up just doing the lighting the whole time because it really didn't require two photographers. [00:02:11] Speaker A: Nice. So you were just the walking. [00:02:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I was just a light stand basically all day just moving lights around, which was. Which was good. [00:02:21] Speaker A: Nice feeling. That helped him out. [00:02:22] Speaker B: It's good to help him sometimes. [00:02:24] Speaker A: Well, you could do with all the help he could get, really, when you think of that. [00:02:27] Speaker B: Well, there was. There was a fair bit going on. It was photographing like high school kids all dressed up for their Mamma Mia. Stage show. Oh, cool. Jim didn't. Because I was doing that. He didn't have to worry about the lighting at all. I was basically watching the back of his camera and changing the lighting as required so he could just focus on the. On the kids and moving things around and anyway, it was good. Cool, but. And otherwise fairly busy. We wrapped up the OM systems, OM3 custom, like collaboration camera strap order last week. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Well done. It's a huge order. [00:03:07] Speaker B: It's been very busy, but that is now done. I believe you can still get those if you're buying an OM3. I don't think they've ran out yet, but I wouldn't wait too long. [00:03:20] Speaker A: I saw Cam Blake, who from the down south photo show. He did a street walk, I think it was yesterday maybe in Melbourne with OM Systems Australia, and he's posted some really wonderful. He got to use the OM3 for the street. I think it was like an OM event. [00:03:40] Speaker C: Yes. [00:03:40] Speaker B: I forgot that was. [00:03:41] Speaker A: It was yesterday. It was the 16th. Yeah, it was yesterday. [00:03:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So. So, yeah. If anyone's following Cam on socials, then check those out because he's taken some wonderful street shots with the OM3, the new OM3 that's just come out, long rumored. And we're going to talk about camera rumors a bit later on too. [00:04:01] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a bit of buzz around a few different brands and things. We'll save that for the end of the show. [00:04:06] Speaker A: I think so. But while we've got Matt here before he dozes off, because he's got a very busy life at the moment, we've just adopted a dog. [00:04:15] Speaker B: He's adopted a dog. And in true random photography show fashion, we only asked him to come on here, I don't know, like an hour ago, and luckily enough he was teasing all day. [00:04:25] Speaker A: Do you want to come on? Don't come on. Do you want to come on? Don't come on. [00:04:28] Speaker B: Because we want to talk about his. His new service, his new website. But before we do that, I want to quickly mention a couple of comments that are in the chat and also from the channel over the last week, just to give a shout out to our awesome listeners. Philip Johnson's in the chat. As always, a hush of expectation in the chat room. Good evening, gentlemen. He was there at 10:10 2, just waiting. I love it. [00:04:53] Speaker A: G'day, Philip. [00:04:54] Speaker B: Phillip. First comment, get off my digital lawn. Let's go. Hey, Tony, what's up? And Dave from Tassie is glad to hear alive. Greg, we missed you on the show on Thursday, wasn't. [00:05:06] Speaker A: I wasn't, you know, found in a shallow grave somewhere in the back of Bendigo after a promised free camera strap. So I am alive and well. Thank you for covering last week. Yeah. Last Thursday with Will Godward on in the Morning. [00:05:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:22] Speaker A: Some stuff to attend to. So I like to leave the boys to sort of, you know, fend for Themselves every now and then. It's like children, really, for me. It's, you know, you and your partner go away. You leave the. The teenagers in in the hope that they're going to be responsible and they're going to protect the house pets. And so I wanted to see how you and Jim would do without me. [00:05:41] Speaker B: How'd we do? [00:05:43] Speaker A: I don't know. I didn't watch it, but I was. [00:05:46] Speaker B: I was like, I don't think he's watched it, by the way. The way he's talking. So you don't actually know what we did? [00:05:52] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:05:52] Speaker B: It was wild. It was crazy. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:55] Speaker B: Greatest. Greatest interview ever. Hang on. Tony's just saying, can Greg go in the left corner again? It's messing with me. Okay, sure. Done. Oh, let's put Matt up there. Yeah, that's better. That's how it normally. That's how we would normally roll. Okay. [00:06:09] Speaker A: All right. So just before we jump into photokaizen and Matt's wonderful new initiative, don't forget, guys, to like and subscribe, tickle the bell button. And don't forget that we also have a regular Thursday morning podcast, the Camera Life podcast. Every Thursday, it's our weekly show to interview talk shop with a guest, with a photography guest. And Matt's been in that hot seat before, but today I feel like we're in the hot seat, Justin, because we're going to be submitting some of our photos to, through photokaizen for Matt's team to evaluate. And I must say, I found that. That concept of digging out some images and putting them through a little bit overwhelming. And a little. [00:06:59] Speaker B: I did, too. [00:07:00] Speaker A: A little anxiety inducing because I've never. I've never had photos professionally judged before. [00:07:06] Speaker B: I did, too. Should we get Matt? Can you tell us what is photokaizen and why does it exist? [00:07:13] Speaker C: Well, I'd say the why of it. So just talking about my own, I guess, to use the cliche journey as a photographer. I was probably a photographer for about 10 years before I actually engaged with the photography industry broadly. And it wasn't until I joined the AIPP many years ago that I got interested in, okay, I might enter a competition or something like that and went to get my entries printed. And I was lucky enough to meet Darren Ju. I don't know if you know him, but he's a Nat Geo photographer, one of Australia's best wildlife photographers, particularly underwater. And then Ian Poole, who is probably considered one of the best photography judges. Failure in history. And he's passed on now. But Fortunately, a lot of people got the benefit from his experience as a mentor before he went. And I was one of those lucky people. So I guess I had so much access to really intelligent people that could tell me all sorts of stuff about photography and would sit me down and dissect images with me. And it's hard to get those opportunities or even to know who to talk to and where good advice is coming from. So there's, you know, you can jump on discord or Facebook groups or anything like that, but how do you know that the advice that you're getting is good? So I wanted to create something where people could reliably come to that site and try it out. If it's not for you, we can refund you, no worries. But basically we talk to you about your photograph or your project or your website. So it's just a way to get expert feedback on whatever you've got going on. And so for some people, they might be a beginner and it might be their first time getting feedback like you guys, I'm sure you've got feedback before, but just maybe not in this kind of way. And so that can be. Maybe it's just about working out what the next step is or seeing where you are at and what you might want to focus on. And for some people, they might have already won a ton of awards and they might be looking for the 1 or 2% sort of things that can make things better, which might be the difference between, say, winning a national title or just missing out. [00:09:26] Speaker A: Okay, very good. And it is interesting. We have all received. Sorry, Justin. [00:09:30] Speaker B: No, go for it. [00:09:31] Speaker A: I'm going to speak anyway. We have all received feedback in the past. You know, everyone's a critic, but no one's an actual judge. And I think, you know, we've all can probably all tell stories of putting a photo up online. You know, even it's just on your socials that you thought was, you know, shit hot and it gets absolutely destroyed by some keyboard warriors unless you're in a, you know, a safe community online, which, which is a tricky thing to find sometimes. But yeah, I mean, I, you know, I've always been anxious about getting feedback on my photography and trying not to take it personally and trying to look at it as a learning opportunity. And I think that can be a bit overwhelming for some people that being confronted with that information. So, Matt, with Photo Kaizen, when you, when you're dealing, say with a new photographer, you know, versus say someone that is, you know, at that 90% mark, wanting to Push up a couple of percentage points to take out, say, a national prize or even an international prize. Is there a difference in how you handle those, those two groups of people? Or is it more that you see everyone as equal and we just provide the feedback in a, in a way that suits the genre and the style and the person? [00:10:51] Speaker C: Well, it's tricky because you don't want to make too many assumptions because a lot of the time when you're judging just in general, you have no idea whose work it is you're judging. So even some of the grandmasters of photography in Australia, so like the Peter Eastways and so on, they've also got bad scores for their images before. And sometimes getting bad scores or doing poorly with an image is actually a sign that you're experimenting more and pushing boundaries more. So that's not necessarily a bad thing. I always tell people, if you're not taking any bad photographs, then maybe you're not trying hard enough because it's easier to just turn up and do what you know works every time. But I feel like you're not pushing yourself if you get into that situation. So answer your question more directly. So I try not to assume where somebody might be at because you never know. It could be like a really experienced photographer, but they could be trying a different genre or something else. And so their work might not sit where it might in their preferred genre. But mainly I want to talk to people about what they're doing really well and then what they can improve. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Yep. [00:12:03] Speaker C: And for beginners it's probably going to be like simpler concepts might even be. They haven't had dust spots pointed out to them before. I see a lot of dust spots in competitions, so it seems obvious to those people, like once you've seen it, once you see it every time kind of thing, but you have to see it that first time to go, oh, okay, that's the thing I need to look out for. Whereas you kind of know when somebody's at the top of the game when you see the imagery and go, holy crap, I wish I had taken this. And now I have to think really hard about how this could be made even better from where it already is. So sometimes you just find the most minute picking points. And I think if you're acknowledging that, like, hey, this is amazing. So anything I say from here is taken into that context and it's just finding those tiny things that can make it even more amazing. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Now you're an award winning landscape photographer, owner of a gallery. Is this only for landscape photography or Are you able to provide feedback on any genre? [00:13:12] Speaker C: I'd say almost any genre. So pretty much all of the big genres that you can think of, say portrait, if you're photographing cars or landscapes or babies or any of that kind of stuff, weddings, events, whatever, that's all covered. And I have won awards in a lot of those areas as well. It's just funny when you do well in a genre and then all of the genres that come before that kind of fall away and you become that guy instead of the guy that you were before. At one point I was just a guy that photographed people hitting each other a lot when I was covering Muay Thai and then they're like, oh, you do landscapes as well. So it covers a bit of everything. In the long term, we'll look to get specialists in really particular areas. So for example, deep space photography, I could probably give some feedback on that, but I could definitely not get anywhere near the expertise of like an Andrew Campbell or somebody like that. And then there's also things that we could expand into in future. I'm not sure even if it's possible, but say forensic photography is a whole field. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:14:24] Speaker C: How do you get feedback on that? Got no idea. I don't even know if you could. But that's something that we can investigate in future. Like school photography, photographing groups of school kids. It would be better if somebody that actually did it was the one giving the feedback so they can be really realistic about all the challenges that you're facing when you're doing that. So basically 99% covered, 1% we're looking into. And one of the things that I'd like to do in the very long run is enable people from around the world, regardless of what language they speak as well, to be able to get feedback in their preferred language. [00:15:01] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. So behind the scenes, we'll get to the interface soon, we'll bring it up and have a play around with it. So behind the scenes you've got a team of people that are registered with aipp, are accredited judges or are they just more industry experts in the, in their genres? And you will call on them for help with a particular. How does that work? Or is it. Is it all, Is it all you? [00:15:34] Speaker C: So early days. It's a lot of me that I have a lot of people in mind for certain things. So I'm lucky enough that I've been on the committees for multiple photography competitions. I've probably judged with maybe over 300 to 400 other photographers in different places. And I think you kind of spot the ones that really stand out as the ones that really give great educational content as well as being able to score an image. And it's not just being able to give something a score that seems reasonable or justified that makes a good judge. It's what value they can pass on to the person that's entering whatever competition it is. Especially in, like, a live situation or a panel situation, if people can come away knowing, oh, okay, this is what my score was, this is why I got that score, and this is how I could make it even better, then I think that's a good thing. So I see a lot of my role is trying to put together the. A team of judging and the people that have the right kind of voice for that as well. Yeah. I'm just lucky enough that I've got some pretty good contacts. [00:16:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:41] Speaker B: And particularly with this. This format where there's nothing on the line, there is no grand prize, there's no so. So giving judges that, like, that style of feedback, the opportunity to really lean into that side of judging, as opposed to worrying too much about whether this is going to take out, you know, some coveted prize or something. They're actually more worried about just delivering great feedback. I think you might even attract some judges that really enjoy a different angle on it. [00:17:14] Speaker C: You know, there's one particular judge, when he's on live panels, we kind of have to hurry things along a little bit because he just loves to talk about photography. And it's like, hey, I've got the right place for you. [00:17:27] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Like here, you can. You can go in depth about this image as much as you want. It's really going to help the photographer. I love it. I'm very excited. Also, though, like Greg said, it felt. It felt a little overwhelming opening up my Lightroom catalog and going, what image or images am I going to even submit? Do you have any suggestion? I mean, obviously, maybe it's a bit easier. If someone's got a competition coming up and they've got an image or a few images that they want to submit, they're going to think, okay, I'll submit those and maybe get some feedback on. On them prior to the competition. But for someone like me, I don't have any plans to submit any images, like, where should I start? [00:18:13] Speaker C: So for me, if I was wanting to use it as a learning exercise, I'd probably, let's say if we were entering three images and that's what we had, that was the limit of what we could learn from I'd probably look to submit something that I was really happy with. Something that. A different entry that is maybe an image that you felt like it should have been good, but for some reason that you can't put your finger on, it just didn't end up the way that you wanted it. I feel like we all have those kind of photos where you take them in camera and you're like, this is going to be cool. And then you get back and you're like, you know what? It just isn't working for me. And I don't really know why. And then maybe something where you kind of stuck your neck out a little bit and tried something a bit more out of your wheelhouse. And I feel like that would give you a pretty good spread of advice, but probably focus on genres that you particularly want to improve on. So unless you're very much a generalist, I'd probably stick to a similar genre, like travel, landscape, that kind of thing. But if, say, you were a studio photographer and you took portraits and photographed people with lighting and that was your day job and you wanted to get better at that, maybe it isn't as useful to submit some holiday shots, unless that's something you're wanting to improve as well. [00:19:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, that makes sense because, yeah, that's where I was. I was like, I don't even know where to start. And yeah, say I'm submitting three images. Do I submit three completely different genres or do I try and submit three that are a similar genre so you can get a feel for, like, how I'm. Yeah. Rather than just seeing one image. Seeing three. Or is it. Or do we really approach it more like a photo competition where if I submitted three images, you wouldn't be looking at the three and comparing and sort of seeing what I've done. You'd be just looking at three different images that could be taken by different photographers. Like, how do you sort of work in that realm? [00:20:20] Speaker C: Well, I'd probably send you off in a little, slightly different direction that might be a bit deeper. Justin, when. What was the last shoot you were really excited about? [00:20:30] Speaker B: Oh, interesting. Probably probably Vietnam. I did a trip to Vietnam. That was probably the last time. I was really excited about taking photos and trying to create something for the sake of just. Just doing it. [00:20:51] Speaker C: Yeah. So do you think you'd be excited if you had a pro looking over some of those pieces and telling you how you were nailing it on some, or maybe try a different way on this one? [00:21:03] Speaker B: Excited and concerned, but yes, excited and nervous. But, but. So, okay, that's a great example because I had Vietnam in my. I've got a little sort of a organizational structure over here of what I might submit, and Vietnam's there. But the problem is with those. They were all kind of. At the time, I was doing 12 image sets for kind of a personal project I was doing. So they're all kind of organized into 12 image sets, and I don't know how to go about picking one or two or. I don't know if any of them are strong enough on their own. [00:21:35] Speaker C: You know, I don't know if you two have kind of like running agreement that you'll do three images and compare, but you can submit them as a project if you like. [00:21:46] Speaker B: Okay, so if you have images. [00:21:50] Speaker C: Yeah, so there's a project critique that you can get that's 10 to 20 images. And instead of looking at each image individually, which I do do, or we do do, you look at all of the images, but you're talking about them as a body of work rather than each image in isolation, ignoring the other images. [00:22:11] Speaker A: Yep. [00:22:12] Speaker B: Ah, I see. You're not. Yeah. You're not going to submit a full image critique on each image. It's going to be more. How do these work together? [00:22:22] Speaker C: Yeah. So for the one, they're completely separate images, and even if they're similar, we're going to treat them like they completely separate. And we haven't seen the other ones before. But if you submit as a project, then we're taking everything into the context of it. [00:22:39] Speaker B: Interesting. I might even just quickly pull the website up while we're talking about this, because we're kind of at going over at that point that I was. That I was looking at. [00:22:46] Speaker A: We've been delaying it as long as we can. [00:22:48] Speaker B: It might be interesting for people to see what it is we're talking about. This is the website itself, like the homepage. [00:22:56] Speaker A: Very sweet. [00:22:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. [00:22:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Hopefully nothing's broken because I'm the web guy as well. [00:23:02] Speaker B: We'll have to talk to the IT department. So when you log in, which I think I'm still logged in, so it should just. Yeah, it's bypassed me straight past the login page and I'm in here. This is like the dashboard area. And then I went to here, which is the submit images page. And I just. [00:23:21] Speaker A: Before we do that. Sorry, Jay, go on. Can we just have a quick look at the dashboard? Because that's a personalized dashboard. I think it's important we cover that just before we jump into. So that's your dashboard, Justin, So talk us through it. [00:23:38] Speaker C: Let's say you submit your images. These are mainly for separate images rather than the project. And if a person chooses to opt in, they can have those images scored as well. And if you have your images scored, then you're eligible for awards through us. So it's a way of having your work recognized, kind of like in awards, but without having to actually compete against other people or fight it out. And you're being measured against the criteria rather than against other people. So it's a way to just kind of like build up your achievements without having to engage in that other kind of stuff. [00:24:17] Speaker A: Yep. [00:24:18] Speaker C: And we've also got plans to like, maybe send out a cheeky trophy now and then for people as well. And people can accrue their achievements over time and achieve all sorts of stuff. Apart from that, there are some free resources as well. So I've written a whole course on creating photography projects and a whole course on an introduction to judging. And that will help you understand what you should probably expect from judges, as well as maybe improving your own skills and how you look at images in the long term. I'd like to maybe do an intermediate and advanced judging as well. And that way you're actually judging images as part of the course and then getting feedback on how you're talking about those images as well. Then there's also podcasts, videos and blogs. It's just recommendations of really good educational resources that are out there, which of. [00:25:10] Speaker A: Course some of podcasts will be on there, of course. [00:25:12] Speaker C: Yeah, we're super educational industry discounts and offers. So anyone that wants to partner with us to offer some cool stuff, we'll put in there. And then certificates and badges is just for people. Maybe they got a silver award for an image a year ago and they can't remember where they put their certificate. Then they can just fill that out and we can send them another one. We also have plans for more stuff on the way. For example, Mika has a series of six presentations on advanced landscape photography in black and white and all sorts of interesting things. And she has been charging for those in the past, but now she's looking to make them available for free through Photo Kaizen. So that'll be pretty cool for a membership. [00:26:00] Speaker A: So you sign up for a membership. We signed up. I signed up this morning. Very quick, very simple, very straightforward. And I love this dashboard concept. It really personalizes it. It feels like a landing spot for me about my photography. If you. There's a couple of expandable menus there that you can open to get more information about ratings and the scores and awards explained. Just down those black boxes down the bottom there, Justin, if you can open one of those. Either two. Yep. So it goes into a lot more detail about, about that. I think what's really good about this also for us, Matt, is that often we'll sit down on the podcast and maybe Justin, Jim and I, or perhaps a guest will go through some images. We've been trying to do that more audio podcast listeners hate it because we all just go quiet looking at photos. But you know, and it will give us, I think by having a look at these introductory courses, especially the free course on introduction to judging and going through the Photo Kaizen process, I imagine that will also elevate our vocabulary about what judges are looking for and how we talk about our images and how we talk about compositional values and you know, how we've used elements and you know, there's a lot of language behind that that I think that will help even just hearing it, you know, it's that whole thing of like trying to create some sort of congruent experience by approaching a task in a multitude of different ways so that you understand it. You watch YouTube videos, you read an article, you have a go at it yourself. You're kind of cementing in place the different ways that you can learn something. And I think what this would provide is greater context for photographers as well that when you're out shooting, you can go, oh, I've got to remember that, you know, photokaizen said that I need to do this with my compositions or I need to take a step back and allow a bit more context or whatever it may be. I think there's a lot, a lot to gain from, from this experience. So, Matt, that was a very long winded point. But Photo Kaizen, it's, it's free to create an account. [00:28:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:11] Speaker A: And then obviously there's a pricing structure depending on what and how many images you submit, whether it's a project or individuals or individual images or anything like that. So can you talk to us a little bit about that? Because I think people will want to know, you know, what, what's involved. [00:28:28] Speaker C: Yeah. So free account, I guess, to make it really blunt, I just want to make it so that it's an absolute no brainer that you would want to have a free account because you're getting so much value without having to spend anything. That's why making a lot of free resources and really useful things available through that is something that I want to do. And part of that as well was because I ran the membership association that was the AIPP when that was still around. And I remembered the dashboard that members had then and all of the things that they got access to. And that doesn't exist anymore. So I'm like, it'd be really cool to have a spot where people can go and get access to really useful photography things. So anyway, maybe There might be 10 members and only one of them submits images. And that's how we make our money. And I'm completely fine with that. You're on the submit page here, so maybe I'll jump in if you see any problems or have any questions about it. [00:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah, well, basically it pre fills my stuff in here and then this is obviously what you were talking about before that there's different options too. This is the one that you suggest that I could do the project of 10 to 20 images as opposed to doing five separate images that all get just an independent critique. I see. [00:29:50] Speaker C: Also. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Okay, website critique and a book project as well. That's cool. [00:29:54] Speaker C: It looks like your screen share doesn't actually show the drop down in action. So when you select Sorry. It will be visible to the user. [00:30:02] Speaker B: I'm looking at that. So that's so bizarre that it's not doing that. I can see it here. I didn't even realize that that wasn't working. How else can I do this? Not really any other way. I don't think I can make that. [00:30:14] Speaker C: Can just talk through it. So when you use that drop down, you'll see options for a single image, three images, five images, and you get a bit of a discount if you're wanting to enter more images to check them out and get advice. And you've also got a projects one, so a body of work perhaps about Vietnam. It could be that you have a book project and maybe you've gotten to the point where you have a layout or something that people can look at. We can look at that layout for you and warn you if there's any kind of red flags like, oh, on this page there might be a really important part of your image that's going to be right in the middle of the book, where the binding is going to be and it'll get lost and things like that. So we can look at book projects as well and also websites because there's no shortage of photographers that want to get some advice on their new website. [00:31:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good one I think because especially if you're starting up a new business as A photographer, it's really, really important to get to get your website right because there's so much competition out there and there's so much traffic and noise in. You know, when people do a search for local photographers that you want it to really catch, don't you? [00:31:24] Speaker B: And I don't know what you found, Matt, but I would say the chances are most newer photographers tend to throw way too many images on their website and, and paring it down and curate, curating it to the better, the stronger images in your portfolio and the ones that are more targeted to whatever it is you're trying to get across about your work and who you are as a photographer. So it's usually a matter of maybe taking some images away and. Or refocusing it to highlight certain images as opposed to just ramming a million images on a new website. [00:32:00] Speaker C: Yeah, it could be in terms of website advice, it could be a whole bunch of different things. So it could be that the typography is a little bit hard to read or confusing. It could be that there's navigational issues, could be that you've got everything set up but your contact form isn't responsive or all sorts of random things that we'll check. I'm lucky enough that I started off in web design before photography was even an idea in my head, so I can assess websites pretty well as well. [00:32:29] Speaker A: I think for newer photographers that's a priceless option. [00:32:34] Speaker B: Especially having there is a price. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Well, you know what I mean, in terms of value for money, it's a really great service because often when we first build a website, we show it to the closest people to us and they're lovely and they say, oh, it's wonderful but you know, having someone independently step back from and go, well, hang on, you know, like you said, your typography is hard to read when you scroll this happens or it's cluttered or whatever it may be. So I think that's a really valuable. [00:33:01] Speaker B: Service for this price. I might put the Lucky Straps link in here and see if I get a free e commerce website critique. [00:33:08] Speaker C: You've got a coupon, imagine that. [00:33:12] Speaker B: Like, hey, can you do a full, full website order audit of Lucky Straps for me for free? That'd be great, Matt, thanks. [00:33:18] Speaker A: Yeah, sorry. [00:33:21] Speaker B: Amazing. [00:33:22] Speaker A: Quick comment here from Paul who was in town. I think, Paul, correct me if I'm wrong, you were in town Yesterday for the OM3 walk. Love to hear from you how you went with that. But on this subject, Matt, do you want to know anything about the submitted images, like metadata location, backstory, etc. Or you prefer to look them in. Look at them in isolation. [00:33:45] Speaker C: So if the metadata is in the file, I'll be able to see it. So, for example, if you shutter speed and your aperture and things are in there, that can be useful because then when I'm looking at an image, I can be like, oh, okay, that's caused by say the aperture being too low, like a 2.8 instead of a. An 8 for a group photo, for example. And then I can be really direct about going, hey, if you're photographing a group, you might want to shoot at say, like F8 when you have two rows of people or something like that, just so you get more depth of field. I can be a bit more specific, whereas if I don't have that, I can kind of assume what settings somebody might have used, but I generally won't refer to them specifically. Apart from the location, backstory, etc. There will be a field that you guys will see when you start to fill in your details, that you can add any information that you want us to know as well. That can also come in the forms of any questions you've got. You might be like, I'm really happy with this image in all of these ways, but I really don't know how the lighting is working, or what am I communicating with the crop, or anything like that. You can be really specific about what you want and generally we'll give you all of the feedback, but we'll just make sure that we answer your question as well. [00:35:04] Speaker B: While we're talking about image files now, I see for a single image, or if there's, you know, a group of three or five images, it says max file size 20 megabytes, and recommend that files are at least 2,000 pixels or largest larger on the longest edge. Would you recommend any specific, like, do you want it as big as possible as long as it's under 20 megabytes, or does that. Does the size not matter too much? [00:35:30] Speaker C: Or if it's bigger than that, I can generally tell if things are in focus and a few of the technical issues that you might see in an image. Whereas if you're starting to get smaller than that, I might not be able to tell you say that your focus points actually hit the object in front of the thing that you wanted, the photograph or things like that. So it's basically just giving us more information to help you. [00:35:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Is there an idea ideal size? Like would you say 4,000 pixels or something like that? Which. Which will be well under the 20 megabytes, but still sort of a decent size for you to, to maybe zoom in on a little bit. Like, is there an ideal size you want me to, to submit? [00:36:11] Speaker C: No, not in particular, but if you want to go 4000, that's great. [00:36:15] Speaker B: Cool. [00:36:16] Speaker C: I'm just trying to keep it as easy as possible for people. [00:36:19] Speaker B: Yeah, we like, we're all about the details here at the camera. [00:36:24] Speaker C: Make sure you choose your genre as well above that area so you see the next bits you. [00:36:30] Speaker B: It's not showing up on the, on the screen again, but basically there's a drop down here that's, that's people, portraits, landscapes, animal portraits, nature and wildlife, commercial, wedding, documentary and photojournalism, travel and street, fine art and architecture. [00:36:46] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's not like a bad thing if your work doesn't actually fit neatly within one of those genres. It just helps us to understand how you see the work and who we might connect you with to get the feedback. [00:36:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:37:02] Speaker C: So you might even photograph the human body, but say I'm showing this image in the context of creating a landscape image and you might want a landscape photographer to be the one that gives you the feedback on what's actually a picture of a person. So we're pretty open. You just do what you think is going to work for you. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Okay. Now you've been kind enough to give us a little, A little coupon to test this service out, which is. [00:37:29] Speaker C: I don't mind if it shows up. [00:37:31] Speaker B: Okay. But if people, what if people submit using the coupon? [00:37:36] Speaker C: I guess they'll get some feedback and I'll probably have to disable it in a day or two when our, when. [00:37:44] Speaker B: Our hordes of listeners bombarding your site. [00:37:49] Speaker A: Camera live. [00:37:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:50] Speaker A: Ruining me. [00:37:51] Speaker B: They've ruined me. So I do have a question, though, on the, on the pricing. It's. It says it's got the euro symbol in there. So when will the, Will the pricing be in euros? [00:38:04] Speaker C: Yeah, at this stage, we probably are looking at putting something in so people pay in their own currency. But I'm kind of anchoring it on the euro at the moment. And it's probably a bigger conversation, but it was in US dollars until recently. And then I was like, yeah, that's pretty unstable at the moment. [00:38:23] Speaker B: Okay, I see. Yeah. So. Okay, so just saying. So Euro is the. It is the. Right. That's all correct. And if, and if we were just checking out like normal, it would just do what any other website would do and you pay with your credit card and it just converts it into Australian Dollars when you make the thing. [00:38:39] Speaker A: Cool. Just a cheeky comment from Yelena saying, tony, I totally gonna use that code. Well, I can imagine Tony doing it, but Yelena, you don't do photos. Or do you? [00:38:49] Speaker B: She's taking some good shots. I keep trying to get her to use one of my cameras, but she's not that. I don't know, not that interested. She's good with the phone. [00:39:00] Speaker A: Still taking photos. [00:39:02] Speaker B: I'm gonna submit a single image right now. Cause I have one single image. It's probably the best landscape image I've taken. [00:39:09] Speaker A: Can we see it first? [00:39:11] Speaker B: I'm ready for it to be eviscerated. [00:39:14] Speaker A: Eviscerated? [00:39:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that's what this. This is photo evisceration. Is that what this website is? [00:39:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what Kaizen stands for. [00:39:21] Speaker B: Photo roast. [00:39:24] Speaker C: Maybe that'll be a spin off website Photo Roast. And we just tell you everything bad. Nothing good. [00:39:29] Speaker B: Well, I mean we could do that as a monthly podcast episode. Maybe we'll just see. [00:39:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:35] Speaker B: See how that goes. So I'm going to do this one just so we can go through the whole process. [00:39:39] Speaker A: Can we see the photo first? [00:39:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Don't give Matt any ideas though. I want him to be. [00:39:47] Speaker A: No, no, I won't say anything. I'll. [00:39:49] Speaker B: A clear mind when he sees it. Zen like state avert my eyes. All right, hang on, let me try and share it. Lightroom hasn't been working very well on the share lately. [00:40:07] Speaker A: There we go. It's crooked, but yeah, no, I think you should submit that. [00:40:15] Speaker B: It's not, but it looks it and that was one of the things that really mess. It messes with my head every time I see it. But I've got it. [00:40:23] Speaker A: Anyone watching? [00:40:24] Speaker B: Anyone watching? [00:40:24] Speaker A: Let us know in the comments if you think that's a crooked photo or is it the curvature at the. Of the earth? Is it proof that the earth is. [00:40:31] Speaker B: I have been investigating the flat earth thing and this is. Yeah, it's part of it. It forms part of it for me. But you're really taking a new hobby. This is taken in Tasmania and I do. I really like it printed big. Seeing it small doesn't do it as much justice. Printed big. It always makes me lean in and look at the detail of the island. That's name. I forget that has a lighthouse and stuff on it. This was taken from the Three Capes Walk. And yeah, the island is right. It doesn't look crooked on our wall. But every now and then I. I tilt the frame a little bit. [00:41:07] Speaker A: I Was going to ask that. [00:41:08] Speaker B: I'm not quite sure, but anyway, I'm going to submit this one, so I'm going to pull that down before Matt. I can see Matt's already like formulating his feedback in his head. He's already got it done. [00:41:17] Speaker A: Tony said, jesus castles, get a real job. Bruce Moyles joined us a little late, but. G'day, Bruce. Good to have you on the show again. Evening, everyone. Totally late. Did I miss anything? Yeah, you'll have to rewind. Sorry, mate. [00:41:30] Speaker B: We could just recap everything we've discussed from the start. [00:41:34] Speaker A: Yeah, you've got half an hour. All right, so you're going to submit a single image. [00:41:40] Speaker B: Yeah. So you guys just talk amongst yourselves quickly. I'm going to export this file and get it in there. I'll bring the website back up while I submit. Minute. [00:41:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. So Matt on the side. I'm sure Justin will get to it in a sec. There's a. There's a 3000 max character field where you can provide feedback, ask questions and then there's a couple of tick boxes around the sharing of your work. One of them is keep the submission confidential. Who. Who are we keeping it from? When we say everybody. [00:42:10] Speaker C: Everybody except for experts. So basically, let's say you enter a landscape and you get yourself a silver award or whatever because you've opted into having it scored. If you choose that, you just want it to be confidential, there's a lot of reasons why you might want to do that. So you might actually be planning to submit that to another competition straight afterwards and you don't want it out there in the world just yet. Or it could just be that this is personal work, you don't want anyone to see it, so just check that. And I think it might even be the default option. But if you want to get a bit of a plug and long term, I'm sure we'll be less lazy about things like social media and so on and very happy to share some great photographs that comes through the site. So obviously with full credit and all that kind of thing. [00:43:00] Speaker A: So is that part of the plan to go. Sorry, I cut you off, Matt. Sorry. Terrible habit that far. I was just going to say, is that. Is that a plan down the track to build more of a. You know, I think this is a great, a great landing spot and it has the potential for community building and social media are a big part of that that you'll start to people that submit, you'll encourage them to be part of the social media community that you build around it. [00:43:26] Speaker C: To be honest, I think that will probably be determined more by the people that use the site than it is necessarily by me. Now I'm kind of of the belief that there's already a lot of great communities out there. So I'm not really wanting to pull attention away from things that I already think are working really well. Yeah, other people are making. So I'm more likely to promote other people's communities as great places to be. And also like a long term goal for me is if this starts to be nice and profitable then I can do things like sponsor really great podcasts like this, this one and do lots of really cool community things, but also help other people to do the things that they're doing already. So I don't really want to take away from what other people are doing already in the photography community. I just want to add to it. [00:44:13] Speaker A: So yeah, no, I think that's fair. Did you hear that though, Justin? He said really? Was it really good or really great? Let's rewind and watch that again. [00:44:23] Speaker B: He said all I heard was something about he was going to sponsor us with thousands and thousands of dollars. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I've been looking for a sponsor because Lucky Structures isn't cutting it. [00:44:31] Speaker B: No, we're gonna ditch. [00:44:32] Speaker A: I'm still. I'm still in the corner of my son's bedroom. I don't have a studio. [00:44:36] Speaker B: What's the question mark? [00:44:37] Speaker A: Our current sponsor. [00:44:38] Speaker B: Behind you, Greg. [00:44:40] Speaker C: What's the Mario Square? [00:44:42] Speaker A: Isn't it? [00:44:43] Speaker B: I've been looking at that. [00:44:44] Speaker A: It's a question block lamp. It's Brandon. I'm in Brendan's bedroom and it's currently in a state of disarray because we're about to have hard rubbish and we're about to clean out his room because he's getting a queen sized bed, his first big bed. And yeah, there's just shit everywhere. So sorry about that, guys. [00:45:04] Speaker B: All right. I'm just putting in some information. So I'm agreeing. I'm consenting to the terms and conditions. Only share it if it wins an award. I'm hoping if I tick that button I'm more likely to then win an award so that you can then share it. I thought I was manipulating the system there. I did check a box up here that says receive a score and be eligible for awards, which is normally an extra charge of €3. But I'm going to tick it because we've got a code so that then I can get this award. I'm happy with any promotion. I'm going to put the coupon in no. 1 watch. Please don't. Let's see if it works. [00:45:47] Speaker A: Matt, just a question for you. The max file size is 20 megabytes. Is that per image or per submission? [00:45:53] Speaker C: I'm pretty sure it's per image. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Okay. [00:45:56] Speaker B: Anyway, I exported to 4,000. I can't remember what size that'll be. That's 2.7 megabytes. And it's still going to be a. [00:46:04] Speaker C: Pretty decent file to view if you scroll down. You shouldn't have to put any of that in because of your coupon. [00:46:12] Speaker B: All right, let's give it a roll. Submit. See if I filled everything in. Usually I forget something in, it takes me back up. Come on. [00:46:26] Speaker C: Be a great time for the server to really slow down, huh? [00:46:31] Speaker B: It's crashing. Because everyone's just got that code and started. [00:46:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:36] Speaker B: Done. Cool. All right. And I'm also. Hopefully if you don't disable that code later on, I'm going to submit a 12 image set. [00:46:45] Speaker A: All right, I'm gonna do mine in a minute, but just wanted. Sorry, Matt, cut you off again. [00:46:50] Speaker C: I was just gonna say, if anyone on this podcast, people of refined taste, happen to have spotted that code, then I'll honor it. Until I can't. [00:47:01] Speaker B: I was gonna say until you. [00:47:02] Speaker A: Until I can't anymore. Yeah. [00:47:03] Speaker B: So be quick. If you're watching, you want to get a little critique, you could be get a sneaky free one. [00:47:10] Speaker A: So comments, just quickly and then I'll. Is yours submitted now? [00:47:13] Speaker B: Justin, I'm done. Yeah, you're done. [00:47:15] Speaker A: All right. Just very quickly, some comments and then I'll do mine and then we'll move. Sorry, guys. Get off my digital lawn has it. Stop. So distracting. If you have time to research flat earth, we need to get you busy. I agree. Apparently packing a thousand camera straps isn't enough to keep this man out of trouble. Easy peasy, Bruce. More. Really great, but I believe Matt uses I used air quotes or did I see that wrong? Brendan from the camera from down south. [00:47:56] Speaker B: Photo show down south. [00:47:57] Speaker A: Did you name him after me? No, I didn't. And it's B R E N D O N. I didn't name him. He's actually my foster son long term, but yeah, no, we. We call him Boogie. That's what we've named him. [00:48:10] Speaker B: That's a cool name. I like it. [00:48:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:12] Speaker B: I've already got an email saying thank you for your submission. [00:48:15] Speaker A: Cool. [00:48:16] Speaker C: Yeah. And I got your submission, so we're all good. [00:48:18] Speaker B: All very peasy. We'll get on it, people. [00:48:20] Speaker A: My turn. Share Screen. [00:48:24] Speaker B: You want to do yours? [00:48:26] Speaker A: Is that okay if I do mine quickly? [00:48:28] Speaker B: Yeah, if you got them ready to roll. Screen sharing while you're doing that, can. [00:48:33] Speaker A: You see it up there? [00:48:34] Speaker B: No, hang on, I'll just add it to the stage. Done. [00:48:38] Speaker A: All right, so just very quickly, I'm going to submit mine. I'm going to do five images, if that's okay. And I'm going to go with documentary and photo and photojournalism, because I'm a street shooter and I've chosen five street shots which I should just show the people very quickly if I can find them. Just bear with me. Bear with, bear with. And I'll share that screen and go to this one. Oh, no, I can't find it. Why won't it share? No, won't do it. All right, I'll just submit them to the site and then we'll. [00:49:23] Speaker B: All right, this isn't a question from Jim, but he is in the. He's in the chat and he says, hey, I'm going to ask this question on his behalf. Even though he probably. I don't know. I don't know if he wants to or not. If so. Jim is a wedding photographer, professional wedding photographer, but he has recently started a new arm of his business doing boudoir photography. Do you critique boudoir as part of like the portrait side of things? [00:49:49] Speaker C: Yeah, Yep. So, yeah, big booming industry as well. Even birth photography is a thing that has grown massively over the last decade. [00:50:01] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so if he wanted to get some critiques on. On even like it would be the posing or anything like that. That's all stuff that. That you're capable of doing? [00:50:13] Speaker A: Yep. [00:50:14] Speaker B: Amazing. [00:50:15] Speaker A: Very cool. So I've just dropped five images. They're not huge files because they're out of my Fujifilm system. So they're. Most of them are shot with an X70, which is a 16 megapixel sensor. But what's happening here, Matt, Are these still uploading? Is that what's going on? [00:50:31] Speaker C: Yeah, the very last one just finished now. So it's okay. 100 and then it will go. Oh, no. Okay, those other ones. [00:50:39] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:50:39] Speaker A: So we'll go all them, one at a time. [00:50:41] Speaker C: Riveting, podcasting, Riveting. [00:50:44] Speaker B: Everybody, let's all quietly watch as the percentages go up. [00:50:48] Speaker C: It'll be a thing to improve in future. Will be making this a little bit more visual. [00:50:56] Speaker B: I mean, I think they. It's pretty cool. [00:50:58] Speaker A: Yeah, they're all pretty. [00:51:00] Speaker B: They're decent sized files too. They're all. They're all much bigger than the one I put in. [00:51:03] Speaker A: So yeah, I'm using every mega pixel I can possibly get out of that camera. Jim says. Hey, Brandon says he's changing his name to Boogie. Yep, that's fine. You go for it, mate. Jim just got here. [00:51:22] Speaker B: He did just get here. [00:51:24] Speaker A: Update too. Sorry I missed everything he's about to say. Can you guys recap now you guys are all going to rewind. [00:51:29] Speaker B: Yeah, you rewind. We'll stay here. We've got some news to talk about soon after. While this stuff is updating we can even get started on it because this camera's coming. Do you Matt, do you follow the camera world much like do you or you got your gear and you just don't. Don't stress about it or do you see what's coming from different brands or even keep a finger on the pulse? [00:51:50] Speaker C: Keep a vague eye out. But we looked after pretty well by Nikon so we're pretty happy with the setup that we've got now which is Z8S. And with Mika being a Nikon instructor as well. That makes a lot of sense having us on the same platform. We can share gear. She was a little bit jealous when I was only on Sony because I had the 200 to 400 and the 100 to 400 and she didn't. So yeah, now we're all on the same platform. Yeah, keep an eye out. Stuff like Global Shutter. It looks really interesting technology and could change up the industry. But yeah, what news have you got? [00:52:25] Speaker B: Well, I mean there's a few. Bruce Mole says Matt was a Sony boy and jumped ship. There's a fair bit of stuff. I've been keeping it. Keeping tabs on the rumors sites. There is a new Nikon coming in April apparently. But it's the Z52 which I think that's. Is Z5 a crop that's a. Or is that the entry level? Might be the entry level. Full frame Zed? I can't remember. But that's not of particular interest to us. We're more Z8, Z9 kind of people. There's the. The Fuji rumor kicking around. Have you heard Heard that rumor, Matt. [00:53:05] Speaker C: Enlighten me. [00:53:06] Speaker B: The new Fuji camera that's coming. Well, they put a teaser up. Maybe I'll just show it. They put a teaser up. That is. [00:53:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny isn't it? [00:53:22] Speaker B: The teaser they put up, it's basically a video. Hang on. Where they hold an X100 which is the fixed lens everyday camera with a 28 or a 35 equivalent lens, somewhere around 23 crops. So 35, 35 equivalent lens and they held it next to a GFX100 and they said on the 20th something special is being released. So obviously the rumors are flying around that they're going to do a medium format version of a fixed lens walk around like street photography camera which is pretty crazy. [00:54:10] Speaker C: It's big enough that could be really. [00:54:12] Speaker A: It'S a little lame but it's kind of also fascinating. [00:54:15] Speaker B: Play this video, I'll give it a whirl. [00:54:17] Speaker A: Let's see, let's see if it works. Stay 10 seconds. [00:54:25] Speaker B: I mean they're definitely not, they're not being subtle about it, are they? [00:54:29] Speaker A: I will say this because it is public knowledge that our good friend John street who's been on the show and you can watch his, his interview on the back catalog of channels or listen to it. John's actually just posted recently on his social media. I think it was on the weekend that he is running some photo walks in Sydney for the Fujifilm event with a new product. There's some air quotes product that he's happy to, that he's looking forward to sharing with people. So John's a Street photographer, he's a Fuji shooter. He typically shoots with an X T3 I think at the moment and a range of lenses but you know he's, he's a, he's a bit of a magician. He's got a magical eye when it comes to seeing the compositions in the street and so he said that he's working on something as well with Fujifilm Australia on his social so that's not, not revealing anything but could be, I. [00:55:27] Speaker B: Mean being a Fujifilm, an ex summit, they could be releasing multiple products. They could be releasing one product like you never know. It could be lenses, it could be anything. [00:55:37] Speaker A: Could be two cameras. [00:55:38] Speaker C: Yeah but battery charging dock. [00:55:44] Speaker A: A new USB cable. But although at the end of the last deck summit I think there was a short clip afterwards with the CEO of Fujifilm showing the products that they just announced the last summit and then there were two cameras that were hidden under kind of pieces of paper. It was kind of weird. So we know that there's two potential camera bodies out there. So yeah, it could be multiple products. [00:56:10] Speaker B: But some, I mean I know you just said you, you know pretty happy with Nikon and they look after you but we won't tell them, they won't listen to this podcast. Don't worry. Have you ever been tempted Matt, by medium format, by the higher resolution and stuff? Of medium format. [00:56:29] Speaker C: Look, if Fuji are out there and they happen to be listening. [00:56:35] Speaker B: You could have your arm twisted. [00:56:37] Speaker C: Yeah, I've been lucky enough to win a couple of major prizes that Fuji have been the main sponsor for and I think they do a pretty great job and definitely wouldn't mind using a GFX now and then. [00:56:49] Speaker B: You could, could make it work. [00:56:52] Speaker C: Yeah, they probably could fit it in somewhere. [00:56:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I've got contacts in the bag for it. Yeah, they're pretty special cameras. I'd love to get my hands on one for even just for you know, a week or something. [00:57:04] Speaker A: But they're, I mean they're, they're big. They're so big. I reviewed the X1, hundreds mark two with the pre production 500 prime and that was a magic. I took that out. I had to go out early because it's such a big camera and lens and it was pre embargo that I had to, I couldn't let other people see it. So how do I test and review this like the biggest camera lens on the planet, you know, for consumers. And so I had to go to the botanical gardens at like six in the morning to shoot birds without anyone else seeing it. And yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting. [00:57:47] Speaker B: The other, the other weird thing I saw, I mean there's lots of other rumors flying around. There's rumors for Canon releasing a vintage camera kind of like the Nikon. What are they up to now? Zf. Zf, yes. Canon are apparently jumping on that bandwagon but there's not a lot of info about it. It might be later this year or something. [00:58:10] Speaker A: We've just said. Well we've just seen OM systems do it with the OM3. [00:58:14] Speaker B: Yep. [00:58:15] Speaker A: And Fuji have obviously always held that retro aesthetic which are less evident in their bigger GFX cameras obviously. But you pick up a, you know, an XT5 or X100 and it feels like a, it feels like an old school camera. Part of why I love them. What are the other reasons? [00:58:37] Speaker B: Oh, oh actually, well quickly I just want to ask Matt when he travels, do you just use your Z8 when you travel or do you have a body that's like a smaller, more pocketable camera or something that you travel or do you use your phone? How do you, how do you travel? [00:58:50] Speaker C: I used to have the X100T for that purpose. So when I'm taking the landscape photos I want my big camera, the most detail, file size and everything because we do print our work. But when I'm walking around the city and maybe I'm not shooting too seriously. It's more just the fun of that. Experimenting and seeing then having a camera like the X100T or some. Something similar like that that you can easily pocket. Not only is it just easier to get around with, but it's also a lot less threatening or conspicuous for other people that are on the street. [00:59:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. That's why I bought the, the Leica Q3. I found that red dot that puts people at ease. The people on the street, they see that small red. [00:59:42] Speaker A: You or them who does it put. [00:59:44] Speaker B: At ease, they just relax and they go about their daily lives so that I can capture it and capture the decisive moment. [00:59:50] Speaker C: I know you're in good hands. [00:59:52] Speaker B: That's right. [00:59:53] Speaker A: They know it's gonna be oh, oh, he's got money. [00:59:55] Speaker B: Sharp image with 3D pop, which is quite important. The other thing that I saw, I think this come out of CP plus like can it. So Canons, they've got a release coming up I think on the 26th of March and I think yeah, smaller, smaller cameras, maybe things that are kind of replacing the old Canon M series like crop sensor, smaller cameras with power zoom lenses. But what they did say is they will not be making a high resolution version of the Canon R1, which I thought was interesting. They, they've obviously been asked about it a lot, you know. Yeah, Sony's got the A1 and A1 Mark II. Nikon's got the Z9 which is 45 megapixel as their flagship camera. And Sony went with a smaller sensor, smaller resolution full frame sensor for the R1. And obviously got a lot of questions about okay, you're gonna do like an R1S or something like that in a year or two and release that. Because they have done, I think they've done that in the past. Or is that Nikon? No, Canon have Canon have done with. [01:01:05] Speaker A: The one D's didn't they? Yeah, yeah. [01:01:10] Speaker B: A high res flagship. So. But they've, they've turned around and said they, they won't do it. It's not what it's about. Yeah, and they're not. [01:01:17] Speaker A: Which I think is fair because it's a, it's a, it's a photojournalistic camera. It's a, you know, it doesn't need to have 50, 60, 100 megapixels. It's not what it's for. It's for speed and accuracy and enough rich detail to suit photojournalists primarily. I mean, which is why you know, is there it was their Wasn't it their Olympics camera? Didn't they, Were they testing the one. [01:01:44] Speaker B: At the olympics and the R5 Mark II? And that's the thing. Yeah, they've got the R5 too, which, yeah, it's probably not, it's not as capable as the A1 too, but it's, it's not as, it's also not as expensive and it does a great job. [01:01:58] Speaker A: I think this is the thing that I'm seeing more and more of, especially with the rumors around this, this new gfx. You know, they're saying it's a fixed lens camera. If you look at the rumor sites it's, they've dedicated pages and pages of, to it and everyone's losing their minds in, in chats. Everyone's losing their minds about it going, oh it's, it's. If it doesn't have this lens it's going to be useless. And it's like, you know, not every camera that a brand puts out is for you. That's, that's been my kind of gut reaction. And it's the same with the R1 and the R5 Mark II. If you want high speed, excellent image resolution, big file size, then get an R5 Mark II and stop complaining. If you're a photojournalist, then chances are you're going to buy an R1, you know, because that's for you. Not every camera and we see this more and more and I blame, I blame Apple for a lot of things but, and I love Apple but it's this whole expectation of the next product is for me because Apple markets that at us really effectively and a lot of brands have followed suit where they make you think that the next MacBook Air, even though you don't need a MacBook Air, it's so good that you probably want it, you know, and we're seeing this more and more from, from camera companies but also people are starting to expect it more and you know, and I've, I've had to step in on, in Fujiforms about this rumored GFX camera and say, hey guys, maybe this camera is not for you. If it is what they say it is, well then it's probably more like a, like an X100. It's more of a street everyday camera but it's for people with a bit more money and who want a bit more file size to play with, you know, so there's a, yeah, there's this real trend, but jumping back to Canon. Sorry, I digress guys. Yeah, the EOS R55 EOS RV and a PowerShot V1 is coming soon. And then off the back of. That's the rumor. Sorry, that's not news. That's not official. You're not hearing that first from us. But on the back of that there was a story that Canon has now suspended orders from retailers and customers alike for the Powershot G7 Mark 3 and the SX740HS. So Canon have said, okay, we're going to stop selling these, which probably fuels the whole rumor thing. And, and it's probably time that they updated their, their point and shoot compact range. [01:04:24] Speaker B: They kind of let those go a fair bit which and a lot of brands have. But the popularity of, of the smaller pocketable cameras has come back. [01:04:31] Speaker A: Yeah, like the, you know, it's still a lot of. You look at the, the Japanese camera sales because that's often a good indicator of where things are going with you know, the X100, some of the older, smaller. The Sony. What is it the, is it SVE? No, the, what is it the something 10 SV10. Anyway, it's a smaller kind of vlogging style camera that's one of the most popular cameras. There's a market for the bigger. Yeah, thank you. There's a market for the bigger bodies for you know, full frame, medium format, Fuji APS, C om micro 4/3. But there's also a huge growing call for people that want to move up from smartphone to something that's a little bit more reasonable, a little bit more. Feels a bit more like a camera because they've gotten into it with their smartphone which is great. If smartphones are a bridging device for young people or new people to get into photography, well then go for it. It's awesome. [01:05:26] Speaker B: You know, just, just jumping back a little bit, I want to ask Matt, did you see what Sigma released, Matt, The Sigma bf? [01:05:36] Speaker C: No, what's that? [01:05:37] Speaker B: Oh, this is fun. Because you're, you're, you're into design, you appreciate design. And we're talking about Apple just a second ago. So you didn't see this, this camera that Sigma just released. [01:05:52] Speaker C: Okay. [01:05:53] Speaker B: It's called the, it's called the BF Radical simplicity. It's a full frame, interchangeable lens, mirrorless camera. [01:06:03] Speaker A: Yep. So they've released this. It's got, that's all the buttons and the top plate obviously only has a shutter button and that's it. There's no hot shoe. It has built in memory. It doesn't take any sort of memory cards, but it's got a fair bit. It's like A couple hundred gig, I think. [01:06:20] Speaker B: 260, I think. Yeah. [01:06:22] Speaker A: Oh, there you go. So it's a decent chunk of data that it will hold. And Sigma released. Announced this at CP plus, but they also their existing lens range are all getting an upgrade with this new finish. Either this or a matte black because there's two cameras now. [01:06:42] Speaker B: This is their fancy video. [01:06:44] Speaker A: But it's interesting because with. With this there were no rumors that I know. [01:06:51] Speaker B: Actually that's a great point. I didn't hear anything about it. [01:06:53] Speaker A: It just dropped. So it kind of makes me wonder how is it that a brand like Sigma can keep this sort of thing quiet yet other brands. Rumors are dropping all over the place. And is that. Is that a supply chain thing? Is it retailers that are dropping rumors, leaking images, that sort of thing? Like, it's really interesting to see how that side of the industry is working. I don't want to go into it today because we could talk about it for hours. [01:07:22] Speaker B: But it is interesting. But yeah, until you mentioned that, I hadn't even thought about the fact that, yeah, this thing just popped up out of nowhere. I guess because people are often looking for stuff that replaces, you know, the R5s getting a new version. Like they're what. They're waiting for it. So the day the R5 comes out, everyone's. The rumors about the R5 Mark II start swirling around. So it's like, I guess this isn't replacing anything. Yeah, but I love it. [01:07:51] Speaker A: I like it. I would happily go with that with a 35 mil for a street camera. I think. [01:07:56] Speaker B: I love the. I love the idea of it. I don't think I could. Yeah, not the price. I think that's three grand or thereabouts in Australia. And I don't think I could use so many menus to change settings because obviously less buttons means more menus. But I love that they did something completely different. What are your thoughts, Matt, seeing these images. [01:08:21] Speaker C: My first thought is how the ergonomics gonna work. Because you've got very hard edges around the edges of the camera, which is quite different from most design. Even the deliberate kind of bend inwards or bevel in the bottom. Right. [01:08:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:37] Speaker C: I'm like, how does that fit with a hand? I'm curious. [01:08:41] Speaker A: Well, that would dig into that, that point on your palm. So which is probably why they've softened it. [01:08:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it was probably having stabbing people. [01:08:49] Speaker A: It was probably blood on the camera again. [01:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Now we're gonna have to cut that off. [01:08:55] Speaker A: Ergonomics is interesting with this one. I can't remember the weight of it but you know it's a, it's, it's pretty light. Well, with, with the lens. It's, it's. I don't know, it kind of looks a bit front heavy to me but. [01:09:09] Speaker B: I think it would be. Yeah, I think it would be front heavy. I reckon it was like 400 grams or something. [01:09:14] Speaker A: Oh, that's not too bad. So maybe six or seven hundred with the lens. [01:09:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember thinking it was compared to like a full frame. [01:09:22] Speaker A: Yeah. So you're used to shooting with big heavy cameras anyway. I'm, I'm a, I'm a Fuji boy. So they're all small. [01:09:29] Speaker B: 446 grams with a battery. Yeah. Whereas like a Z8 probably 7 or 800 grams. Fuji is probably. Yeah, 400. [01:09:38] Speaker A: I reckon a bunch of third parties will jump on that and make a grip or you know, a half case that has a grip built into it or an L plate. [01:09:46] Speaker B: So kind of like where Apple spend a fortune trying to make this super simplistic thin phone and then everyone puts a case and a pop socket. [01:09:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't get it. I don't do it. I love the way the iPhones are designed. Like I like design too and I just can't bring myself to cover up what's a beautiful piece of industrial design. You know, it's like, it's like Leicas. You can see Leica sell all of these leather cases and premium half cases and I don't know, I just kind of want it to shine. [01:10:16] Speaker B: Well, it's interesting. I thought I was going to have to get a grip for mine based on what everyone on the Internet said. And then when I got in my hands I was like, it's great, it's fine. I don't need to go for it. It's a different, it's very different to the way I would hold a full size camera. But it fits fine in my hands. So I was like, it's good. I think the grip, it's just another thing to buy when you spending money. [01:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Just in the interest of time. Justin. I think, I think my biggest issue with rumors because I matt just say, you know, I, I write the news for ShotKit.com I do a lot of stuff for ShotKit now. But one of my jobs is to research all the news that's going on and, and try to decipher and it's getting harder and harder because so many of these rumor sites are stating news like it's fact. You know, they're getting really cocky and confident insiders have given us, you know, the specs of this and, you know, we've got some, some potential images of it. And, and it's getting so, it's getting so that it's finding as a consumer it's harder to know what's real with these products, you know, before they've even come out because there's so much noise around speculation and rumors. And then it, like I said, it flows over into community discussion and social media and people getting angry and righteous about how does this new Fuji camera not have Ibis? It's like no one knows what it has. [01:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's always funny when people are arguing about, you know, product. [01:11:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:48] Speaker B: And I can't believe they've put that sensor in it. You don't even know. [01:11:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I love the Fuji community, I really do because I'm a big supporter of it. But, you know, the other day there was a couple of, a couple of blokes who are incredibly, you know, fortunate to have in our community and they're amazing photographers and they both have like two GFX camera bodies and they're arguing over whether this new GFX is for them. It's like, dude, how many do you need? Like, maybe it's not for you. So. [01:12:16] Speaker C: Yeah, why you need to decide that before it's released? [01:12:21] Speaker B: Well, that's what I. Yeah, yeah, exactly. [01:12:26] Speaker A: Maybe some people, maybe some people like Justin need more to keep them busy, to stop them researching flat earth. [01:12:34] Speaker B: I mean, it, it looks flat when I go outside. That's all I'm saying is. Yeah, but there's more evidence for flat than round. [01:12:43] Speaker A: I mean, you're a six pack away from being a bogan living in Bendigo. So I can get why you would believe it. [01:12:49] Speaker B: I wish I could get a six pack. [01:12:51] Speaker C: How does that explain your photo then? [01:12:54] Speaker B: Which photograph? That's what I'm, that's what I'm hoping. The, the submission will help that I'm hoping. [01:13:01] Speaker A: So you're gonna get some feedback. [01:13:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:04] Speaker A: And prove that the earth is not flat. [01:13:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I think Matt's gonna be like, no, no, the earth is flat. You just used an average wide angle lens with a lot of distortion. [01:13:15] Speaker A: No pressure. Should we jump to the news quickly? [01:13:20] Speaker B: There's more news. I thought that was. [01:13:22] Speaker A: Well, there isn't a lot. No, I think. [01:13:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I will say we're running short of time, so. [01:13:26] Speaker A: Yeah, let's, let's wrap this very quickly. I won't bring them up. I'll just tell you because I don't want to bring them up. So Fujifilm, as we know, when they launched this time last year, they launched the X100 Mark VI and instantly sold out everywhere. Scalpers had a big chunk to do with that. People buying up multiple bodies and then on selling them for stupid prices because no one could find them in shops. So every now and then, being a member of a Fuji community, I would see people post, oh, there's an X100 at JB hi Fi, Camberwell or wherever. And it would be like this, you know, it's like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. So Fujifilm have gone on the record to say, we acknowledge the pain, but we have increased production and they've doubled production of the X100VI compared to what they did with the 5. And they're only just catching up to backlog and back orders, which is crazy great for them that the demand outstripped, you know, availability and expectation. But the very next day they've, they've said that they've paused the production of. No, they've paused the sales of the new Fujifilm XM5, which I reviewed for Shock Kit, due to the increased demand on production. So it's, it's just. And we see it, you know, we see it in a lot of brands. You know, the R5 Mark II launched, it pretty much went out of stock straight away on BH in the States. And they took it, you know, they took a while to get stock back in. It's. And I think, you know, it's. My point on this topic is that it's great to see that the demand is there and obviously brands are being cautious. I think they learned from COVID that if they, you know, if they extend themselves too far with production, that they're going to run into trouble because no one's going to buy their gear when there's a, you know, when there was a shutdown. So, yeah, it's interesting. It's interesting to see that, you know, brands are having these challenges with keeping up the pace of what people want from their gear, which is only good for the industry. Yeah. [01:15:28] Speaker B: But it doesn't seem like it's something that used to happen in the past. Maybe I wasn't around if it, if it happened previously, but I don't remember it being much of a thing where you couldn't get certain cameras. You know, I think Covid put a. [01:15:42] Speaker A: Lot of fear into brands who probably went, oh, the world is great. Let's just ramp up production of the X100 or the Canon, whatever. And then all of a sudden Covid hit and they couldn't move units and then they've, you know they would have taken, they would have taken a heavy hit from that. You know, super interesting. [01:16:00] Speaker B: In the mountain bike industry it was, was similar problem but the opposite was. Yeah in Covid like sales went up a lot. Stores couldn't keep stock on the floor so sales went up, demand went up, but supply went down from obviously, you know, global issues. So shops were ordering everything they could get, distributors ordered everything they could possibly get. But then a year or two later all of a sudden every warehouses are full, stores are full and demand is going down because of the cost of living increases and probably just because everyone now owns a mountain bike. And then you know, and so demand has dropped a bit and you just seeing big discounts and it's almost the other direction issue but still the same kind of problem where they miss, I guess miss their guess on what they needed for supply was incorrect. [01:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. A friend of mine, Adam, who runs a brand here in Australia, he's like the Australian distributor for Lauer lenses and wandered bags and he said that during COVID bags just dropped. Yeah but macro lenses which Lauer make a lot of spiked because everyone's stuck at home wondering what to photograph and so people are out in their gardens and you know, hunting for bugs because that's as far as they could go in some cases. Anyway that's the news. Not a lot going on otherwise everyone kind of, you know, did their dash at CP plus in Yokohama and we saw a huge amount of products come out of that. Like I think about 20 something lenses were announced, a couple of camera bodies and there was a whole bunch of third party stuff there as well. Quick comment from Bruce. [01:17:46] Speaker B: So interesting just before Bruce's comment that there is, you know, there's a Fuji release coming, there's a Canon release next week. You know like it's so interesting that even after CB plus there's still. Yeah, yeah. Releases just constantly coming. It's fast paced. [01:18:00] Speaker A: Well the Fuji one is in three days is the the summit. Bruce learning from Apple model with stock control but not having logistics chain sorted is problematic. Yeah, it's very true. [01:18:14] Speaker B: I don't know what that means but it sounds smart. I agree Bruce. [01:18:19] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's not deliberate though as well. [01:18:23] Speaker B: What's that? [01:18:24] Speaker C: I said it is. Assuming it's not deliberate though as well. I mean one of the best things that you can have as a company that makes stuff is not enough stuff to actually go to all the customers that want it. [01:18:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Constraint. Like a managed supply constraint for demand. Yeah. To keep it. [01:18:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Even if it's something that they weren't, you know, it's pure fomo. [01:18:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:47] Speaker A: They've learned how to, they've learned how to, how to extract FOMO from, from our anxieties. [01:18:53] Speaker B: That is what the Internet says Fuji does with the X100. But I, I don't know. I just don't believe that. I think, I'm not sure they were overwhelmed. Yeah. I just, I think they would sell more if they might. They might maybe constrained supply a little bit, but not as much as it was. Not to the point where people were making more money selling them used than shops could make off them. [01:19:14] Speaker A: Well, yeah, and that's. Yeah, they're trying to stop that. In fact, I just saw a video last week of. Because there's, you know, Pokemon, there's products that are really hot all over the world. Pokemon cards. At the moment, people are burgling shops just to get Pokemon cards because they have a value. Yeah. Like in Victoria there were three stores, I think that were broken into and all the Pokemon cards stolen. [01:19:34] Speaker B: But in Japan, bitcoin has no value. [01:19:36] Speaker A: Well, Pokemon, it doesn't. It's just made up. The Pokemon cards have actual value. Like some of them go for crazy prices anyway. At a store in Japan, I think it was like clip. That said at a store in Japan they have people and it's so quintessentially Japanese. There's a guy who's got like a pink store, like a pink high vis vest on over his suit and he's, he's questioning customers what they know about Pokemon and, and the card collecting. And if they, if the employee suspects that the person is just there to buy volume to then on sell, they ask them to leave. And the best thing about Japan is that the person actually does. They don't put up an argument. They go, okay, and they walk out the door. Because it's that whole, you know, demand is crazy for Pokemon cards at the moment. And cameras can be, you know, we saw that with the X100. We've seen other products go out of stock. Fujifilm are putting in place measures in Japan to prevent mass buying of products by scalpers. Similar kind of concepts where they're actually checking this person actually is a photographer or, you know, has that sort of interest rather than not actually knowing what they're buying. So it's interesting. [01:20:50] Speaker B: Crazy. That's the news in place at Lucky Straps. We've had similar problems. People People buying thousands of straps and then on selling. [01:20:58] Speaker A: On selling. Yeah. So get in quick and buy a strap now. Luckystraps.com that's the news. I think it might be time to wrap it up, boss. [01:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. Matt's probably got actual stuff to do. [01:21:12] Speaker A: Yeah, actual. Yeah. We're just going to go away and research flat earth. [01:21:15] Speaker B: Listening to us debate the value of Pokemon versus Bitcoin, which I think are on a pretty level playing field, to be honest. [01:21:21] Speaker C: I love the idea that somebody robbed a store and the till was untouched. They just went straight to the Pokemon. [01:21:28] Speaker B: Victim because they're so valuable. [01:21:31] Speaker A: They are. It's crazy. [01:21:33] Speaker B: And imagine how much you could fit in your pockets of just Pokemon cards. [01:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:21:38] Speaker B: Thousands. Thousands and thousands. [01:21:40] Speaker A: And it can't be traced like cash. Well, look on that note, everybody, I just want to thank everybody for, for watching, listening. Please make sure you do like and subscribe to the Camera Life podcast. We do a show every Monday night of some sort. Organized chaos I think is best. Often last minute preparation is involved and then obviously a Thursday morning, 9am Australian Eastern Time. Daylight savings is almost about to end I think lads, pretty soon. [01:22:10] Speaker B: No idea. [01:22:10] Speaker A: Easter, something like that. Anyway, it'll get darker soon. [01:22:15] Speaker B: Who we got on this Thursday? Is it Glenn? [01:22:17] Speaker A: We've got Glenn on. [01:22:18] Speaker B: Glenn Lavender. [01:22:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:21] Speaker B: Notorious hater of photo judges, I believe. Not hater, but he's an. He's a anti. We'll ask him about it. [01:22:29] Speaker A: We'll get him to submit some images too. [01:22:31] Speaker B: I think he said he's famously won zero awards in his life and entered none of them good on him. So. [01:22:38] Speaker A: Well, maybe this will turn him around. [01:22:40] Speaker B: He's the yin to Matt's yang. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah. Maybe we'll make him go on Photo Kaizen. [01:22:47] Speaker A: That's what I'm thinking. We'll try and get him to submit a couple of images. Yeah. All right, so next Thursday guys, we've got Glenn joining us. Please join us for that. Glenn's a phenomenal photographer, does a lot of work in India especially and some of his images from, from his collection are just absolutely stunning. It's phenomenal stuff. So stay tuned for that one on Thursday. But look. Yeah, like and subscribe. Drop some comments, let us know what you're up to with your photography. Let us know if you've ever had your images judged and what that experience was like for you and we'll try to get back to them next Monday night. So yeah, I'd love to hear from. [01:23:24] Speaker B: Well, I was going to Say we will be. We'll be closing this loop with Matt at some stage. We're going to try and get him back on if he's available, and we'll go over our critiques of the images we submit to Photo Kaizen, and if you guys want to jump on there, go for it, get some critiques. We'd love to hear what you think. And otherwise, if you want to see some amazing work, check out the Alpine Light Gallery. Check out Matt Palmer's landscape images and his other images, because he did have a career before landscape images, but once he started doing those, we forgot about everything else. If you want to find out about the stuff that he used to do, we did do a big, long interview with him 18 months ago. It was a while ago now. I reckon it's right around episode 20 or thereabouts. [01:24:11] Speaker A: It was pre GC, it was pre. [01:24:13] Speaker B: Greg, so it's a really good episode I get. And otherwise? Yeah, I don't know. Matt, anything else that you want people to know about or that you're working on? If you're in Bright, check out their gallery. Talk to us. [01:24:27] Speaker C: Yeah, if you're ever in Bright and you want to know what's good around the place, then just pop in. We're happy to give you some tips as to good locations and things like that, but I'm looking forward to seeing you too, Paul. [01:24:40] Speaker B: Yeah, Paul says looking forward to visiting Alpine Light at bfop, which is the Bright Festival of Photography, which is. [01:24:45] Speaker A: You'll be there this time, Matt. This year, will you be there? You're planning on hanging finally? [01:24:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:24:51] Speaker A: We missed you last year because it was our first year last year, so it'd be good to catch up with the both of you and I. Justin got a chance to look at the gallery last. Last time I didn't. I was too busy having breakfast with baked, you know, bacon and eggs and stuff. So I made my priorities clear. But this time I'll definitely pop in. [01:25:10] Speaker C: We can do a private tour for all Camera Life podcast listeners if you. [01:25:15] Speaker B: Want to hear that, folks, that. Guys, Paul says he had to peer through the window last year. [01:25:22] Speaker A: They were away on their honeymoon. [01:25:23] Speaker B: That's right. Things to do. [01:25:26] Speaker A: But look, on that note, we will wrap up. [01:25:30] Speaker B: Thanks, guys. Looking forward to Thursday with Helen, which will be alive. We'll tell. Yep. Helene will be on. And Tony says the nerds are getting serious about the Pokemon cards and that's that. Oh, you said we are. Oh, okay. [01:25:43] Speaker A: Well, I'm a nerd. [01:25:44] Speaker B: Oh, you got any Pokemon cards? [01:25:46] Speaker A: I've got a couple. Brendan Boogie. He's got heaps. [01:25:49] Speaker B: How much are they worth? I might have to. [01:25:52] Speaker A: Sometimes I find them in the bottom of the school bag ripped in half, and I'm like, what is that about? [01:25:57] Speaker B: Bitcoin's plummeting, so I need to try. [01:26:00] Speaker A: On a new investment. Invest in Pokemon cards. Yep, yep. Keep them pristine and they'll be worth something one day. But look, on that note, folks, thank you to Matt for joining us. Thank you for sharing Photo Kaiser with us and giving us the opportunity to have a crack at it and to learn more about what are you working on. We would love to have you back in the future to talk about the results and the outcomes. And obviously, if there's anything new happening with Photo Kaizen or with Alpine on light, then we're here for you. But look. Yeah, thanks, Matt. Really great to meet you finally and to have you on the show. [01:26:37] Speaker C: Always. Pleasure. [01:26:39] Speaker A: Very good. [01:26:40] Speaker B: See you, man. [01:26:41] Speaker A: All right, guys, let's play the music. Boss. Oh, no, I'm too early. [01:26:49] Speaker B: There will be a link to this site very soon, Philip. There will be a link. Otherwise, Google Photo Kaizen or photokaizen. [01:26:57] Speaker A: Co. Yep. See everybody. Have a good week.