[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign, Everybody.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: And welcome back to the Camera Life. It is Thursday, it's the 20th of August, 2026. And just before we do anything else, a quick shout out to my son, Seb, Editor Seb. Some of you may remember him from when we first kicked off this platform.
It's his birthday today, so sending my love and birthday wishes to him. But of course, this is the Camera Life podcast and I'm Greg. And we do this twice a week, every Thursday morning, where we interview amazing photographic guests and discover their stories, their inspirations and what they're currently working on. And then, of course, Every Monday evening, 7.30pm Australian Eastern Standard Time, we have our random photography show where we talk about everything that's going on in the industry. News, product launches, scandals.
But more importantly, we look at your images. That's right, you can send in your images to Lucky Straps and the Camera Life podcast and we will talk about them on a Monday night and you can watch along live and see what other folks have to say. But anyway, that's enough about that. It is Thursday morning. We do have an amazing guest here with us today. Today we are joined by Melbourne street and tram photographer Thomas Forbes. How are you, mate?
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Not too bad, thanks. Thanks for having me on.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Yeah, no worries. It's good to have you. I've been following your work for a little while now. I'm a street photographer myself and I love looking at other Melburnians work when they, when they get out, about, out and about, especially in the cbd.
But of course we will unpack a lot of that. But maybe before we get into, you know, where it all began for you, we might just talk a little bit about, you know, photographing trams.
What was it that inspired you to start creating a collection of Melbourne tram photos?
[00:02:09] Speaker A: Well, I've always had an interest in trains and especially trams since I was a kid.
So when I started getting into the Melbourne street photography, I started to have a bigger passion of photographing Melbourne's trams. And I would always try and photograph them in a quirk way where you would see it in a different way instead of just taking a quick phone photo.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: And I would even do it when it's sunny, cloudy or even rain, which is my favorite time to photograph them. Because even the old W class Trans, which is Melbourne City Circle Trans, just something special about it when it's raining.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: Yeah, there is, there is. And we were talking about this before we went live.
There is definitely a mood that is generated when Melbourne is gloomy and rainy.
And I see a lot of a lot of our peers in the street photography game in Melbourne will intentionally head out to document images when the weather is at its worst. When most people think, oh, there's nothing really to photograph, that's. Sometimes that's inspiration.
And where do you just. On the tram project, you know, where do you. Where did that begin for you?
Was it just a smartphone pick and you thought, oh, there's something there, or was it, you know, did you decide to sort of lift your game at a certain point and go, actually, there's something worth really properly documenting here? When did that stage occur for you?
[00:03:33] Speaker A: I think my passion for starting to photograph would probably be back in 2022, where I went into the city to photograph something at night. Flinders Street Station was lit up, and I suppose that's where the love and passion started to kick in.
And then it slowly just started to grow from there.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's amazing. And. Well, yeah, actually, let's. Let's bring up some of these images while we've got. While we're talking about it. Let me just share my screen.
I can work out how to do this properly. There we are. There you are.
Okay, cool. So this is your Instagram account.
And so many. And I really love that the.
The angle that you choose to shoot most of these, which is head on. You know, often we see trams as these huge, lumbering, you know, obstacles on the road to be both feared and admired sometimes.
But this front on view, if you
[00:04:34] Speaker A: see the one at Victoria Parade where you got the W class tram going around the bend, it's this one here. Yeah, that one. Like that one. That one was just a gamble. I could see it. It was coming around the bend and I quickly ran up the top of Victoria Parade and basically used my 70 to 200 lens and just zoomed right in and pretty much capture it around the bend with the gorgeous autumn color. And you sort of look back onto that and you think, oh, wow, that's actually Melbourne.
You almost think it was something different overseas.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's quite amazing. And I love the way that you frame these images with, you know, yes, you've got compression from that 70s to 200, but you've also got really beautiful framing, you know, and obviously the greenery around Melbourne and the changing colors with the changing season certainly adds a lot to that.
So, Thomas, with this project, is this, you know, is this something that you intend to continue for as long as you can? Is there something that you've got in mind down the track? You know, is this a potential book or an exhibition for you.
Is that something you've done?
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Well, one day. One day I'd love to do a book, especially on the tram photos, because this. The way I've been photographing them. Is there something so special about it that. Yeah, one day I would definitely, absolutely love to try and do a book with the Melbourne tram photos.
[00:05:50] Speaker B: Yep.
No, that's. I. I think it's certainly something worth worth pursuing. You know, there's. Yeah, there's a real culture around Melbourne's. Especially around Melbourne's trams. I mean, in preparation for this
[00:06:06] Speaker A: Melbourne tram network in the world, which makes it even more special.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Oh, I never knew that. I never knew that it was the
[00:06:12] Speaker A: business in the world.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: That's amazing.
Yeah, there's a lot of nostalgia for a lot of Melbournians around the tram. You know, people using trams to get into the city, to go to the footy, to go to sporting events, to, you know, to get around work and pleasure, you know, And I think some of my earliest memories of jumping on the tram, I remember, and my folks still do this then they're in their 80s, you know, they'll. They'll park near the tram stop and then they'll catch a tram to come into the city rather than just drive in. And they love that journey. You know, they. They get to watch the world go by. They. They see interesting people, all without the. The stress of driving.
But I remember my first trip, one of my first trips on a tram that I remember was going to see. This is how old I am, folks. Going to see Indiana Jones, the first movie, when it came out in cinemas, that was in the city, and I think it was a village center, which is now Kmart or Target or one of those things. So that certainly changed over time.
Really, really interesting subject matter that you've looked at different ways of capturing.
You know, have you settled on it, on kind of a style for this particular body of work for yours? You know, is there a. Is there a theme that you're trying to run other than the subject themselves? Is there a theme that you try to work with around editing and how you curate and crop your images?
[00:07:40] Speaker A: Well, I feel like recently I've sort of developed an editing style that I particularly like, which has taken me a while, but recently I did an edit on one of my tram photos or street photos, it might have been. And I was sort of looking after it after a while, and I thought, I really love this edit. So I've more or less just sort of saved it as a preset and Then I would paste it onto my. That photo and see how it looks. And then I would just make the necessary small changes and then it sort of just comes together.
Yeah, it looks amazing.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: It certainly does. And, you know, it's interesting, you know, being a street photographer and talking to other people about Melbourne. Often people say Melbourne's very gray, it's very concrete, it's very dull.
[00:08:23] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: And that can be the case. But I think what you've done with, with these edits, especially the colors of the tram and the colors of the trees, is you've made those core colors really pop. Those really essential green and golds are really standing out in these photos, which is wonderful.
And yeah, I found it quite compelling going through your.
Let me just take this off the screen and get us back to a sense of normality. There we are.
Yeah, I found it. I found your images really compelling and, you know, which was obviously part of the reason why we reached out to you to be a part of this. So thank you for that.
Before we wind back the clock and, you know, get to learn where this all began for you, I might just say good day to some people and do a cheeky ad read, if you can forgive me for that.
Who we got in today?
Good morning, Lucinda. Great to have you as always.
Paul's in. G', day, Paul. Philip Johnson's in. Yes, Philip, it is 50 days to befop.
Have you heard of bfop, Thomas?
[00:09:28] Speaker A: No, I don't think I have.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: So beef up is the. We talk about it far too much on this show and the people that probably didn't get a chance to ticket the tickets to this event hate us every time we mention it. But Bebop is the bright festival of photography. It's an annual photography event that happens in October of every year.
This year is its 10th birthday and Justin and I went to the last two befops. But there's people watching that, you know, I've been to several.
Some have been to all of them. And Philip Johnson is a. Is an alumni beef op and we're looking forward to catching up with him again this year.
Robert Varnas in Good morning Australia. Good morning, Greg's. Greg's here. G', day, everybody. Rodney Nicholson. Morning all. And yeah, where is Justin? Some of you may be wondering where Justin is. So Justin's been called away on a job and I was saying to Thomas before we went live that Justin has so many expensive hobbies that he has to give up the podcast to make money.
You know, I don't think his priorities are in in order to be honest. But. But don't tell him I said so.
And for G' day, Rodney. It's a. It's amazing Melbourne. It is amazing Melbourne. I saw, I think you're in Melbourne recently.
I think I saw Rodney taking some shots. Or not. I didn't see him in person, but I thought I saw some of his shots up on socials.
But thanks for joining everybody. If you're new here and you're watching along, say g' day in the chat. If you've got any questions for Thomas or me, feel free to drop them in the chat.
Also, give us a like. Certainly helps out a lot. And if you're new to the channel and you haven't done so already, please consider subscribing.
It costs you nothing. All you have to do is hit the subscribe button and then tickle the bell icon for all notifications and that way you'll get notified in your time zone when the next episode of the Camera Life podcast is coming up. And like I said, we do this twice a week, so there's plenty of opportunity to watch. If you're not a podcast watcher by nature, you prefer audio podcasts while you're working or jogging or cooking or whatever it may be, then this podcast will also become available on all of the leading audio podcast channels. I think by tomorrow. So stay tuned for that.
Where were we?
So many things on my list to talk about. Thomas, let's roll back the clock for you and find out where that creative journey began. You know, I want you to think about, you know, your first memory of picking up a proper camera.
Or perhaps you had someone in your life who inspired you to take on photography. Or perhaps it was a completely external factor, like a teacher or a mentor or something you saw one day. Tell us where photography began for you.
[00:12:12] Speaker A: Well, suppose that started when I was little because Mum would always take heaps of photos with us the day during just photograph our memories and moments. And then I suppose that's where my passion I thought, oh, I quite like this. So she gave me a camera when I was little and was probably a film camera and I basically would just go around and take random photos and that's sort of where the passion started. And then I got my own little digital camera when I got a bit older and I just again would just take lots of random photos.
And then one year when they were doing the level Crossing works on our line, this is going years ago I would photograph all the moments and I literally went out there every day Just to take photos of the station getting demolished to new progress and everything. And then it sort of just builded from there.
[00:13:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: And then.
[00:13:04] Speaker B: And when you say young.
Sorry, I spoke over, you go, no, that's okay.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: I was just gonna say, then when I turn 18, I bought my first digital SLR, which was a Nikon D3300.
Oh. And then a couple years later, I got the D7200 Nikon, and I shot with that one for a good six to eight years.
And then I bought my first mirrorless camera, which is the Sony A7IV, which is what I'm using now.
[00:13:35] Speaker B: Interesting. So even though you had quite a legacy and a number of years shooting with. With Nikon, what. What made you change to Sony? You know, did you not consider Nikon mirrorless up to scratch, or was there something else that influenced that?
[00:13:50] Speaker A: I think I felt like a change. I just wanted to explore other brands. And I think at the time when I was buying the Sony, the availability of lenses was probably a bit better as well.
[00:14:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Okay. And of course, we will talk a little bit more about your current gear in the back half of this show.
Keen to understand what it is that you hit the streets with, but we'll talk about that a little bit later. And, you know, you said that you were quite young when you started, when. When your mum gave you your first camera. Do you remember roughly how old you were?
[00:14:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I was probably about nine.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Okay. That's quite young. That's quite young.
[00:14:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:14:29] Speaker B: And, you know, you said that your mum.
Your mum was obviously a key influence, but were there other influences around you? You know, people that you knew that did photography? Or was it something you were interested in pursuing at school?
[00:14:45] Speaker A: No, it was just mainly Mum that gave me the passion because, like I said earlier, she would photograph all our events, moments and the memories, and that's sort of where the passion just grow.
[00:14:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I think it's amazing.
I often lament here about my first photography experience where my nan gave me. And I'm pretty sure the more I think about it, I'm fairly certain she loved Disney stuff.
This is obviously quite some time ago, but she gave me one of those 110. And the guys in the chat will correct me as to what brand it is. But the one of the 110, little kind of. It was like the. It was like a long, thin camera. It took a 110 cartridge, which was short, small, much, much smaller frames, and I remember using that.
And I'm pretty sure it took one of Those old school flash cubes.
Thank you, Rodney. It's a Hanimax. Good on you, mate.
Rodney's older than me, he'll know every camera.
But yeah, that little Hanimax, I'm pretty sure it took a flash cube because I remember being fascinated with this little plastic. Do you remember those?
Did your mum use those when you were kids? Those little. Those little sort of cube shaped flashes that twisted after each shot. I think it had like four.
[00:16:03] Speaker A: No, I don't. I don't think so.
[00:16:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it was really interesting.
It had like. So it was a cube and each face of the cube was a. Was like the flashbulb. And once it went off, I'm pretty sure that was it. And then you rotate. You rotate the cube and use the next one. And you rotate it and use the next one. Once all four are done, you had to just throw it away.
But I remember, I remember very vividly going up to Kmart with my Nan with that film and putting it in a little envelope and ticking what we wanted. And you know what we wanted prints and we wanted the negatives back. We wanted a contact sheet. And it's such a strong memory, that first experience.
I wonder what Nan would think of me now being a photographer.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: Yeah, when I was little and I would go on school camp, I would take us just, you know, the disposable film cameras that you can. I think you can still buy today.
And I used to remember I had to be careful. I don't get carried away taking too many photos. Because once you get down to zero, that's it.
[00:17:10] Speaker B: Yeah, you're done.
Yep. It's not like digital, is it?
You've got to be really careful about what you use it for, you know, and these days, film's incredibly expensive, you know, as is the processing.
And I was up at JB hi Fi the other day here in Melbourne.
And for those of you who don't know, JB hi Fi is. It's kind of like the Americans version of.
It's a little bit like Walmart, but it's an electronics kind of big store. They've been around for a very long time.
And yeah, I was up there and they're selling those disposable film cameras, but they're almost 50 bucks each.
You know, it used to be the sort of thing that you could grab, you know, and give to friends at a party or I even picked up a couple when I went on one of my trips to Osaka in Japan. And I just picked up a couple of those disposable film cameras because it was. Felt fun and you know, I was trying to be creative and it was a photographic holiday, so why not? But now I have to second guess buying something like that, you know, 50 bucks plus processing.
Yeah, that's, that's not nothing.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Yeah, but I'm really surprised how popular film has become again.
Yeah, like the demand's there.
[00:18:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think there's always been a demand. I think social media has helped to propagate that seed of interest in film, you know, and we see younger people going back to film. We see, you know, younger photographers really, really leaning into Polaroid and Instax film photography as another form of analog photography.
So yeah, it is interesting and we've seen quite an uptake in film. And even Justin, you know, he's got a couple of film cameras, he's just gotten back into film and he's been buying film bodies and, and trying out different films again. It's just that, it's just that cost, you know, and we've got friends, friends of the show who shoot weddings purely on film, which always makes me very nervous to think about. But, you know, they seem to know what they're doing and, and they get amazing results.
It is very fascinating seeing what people are doing with film photography these days.
I just don't know that I'm ready to get back into it, you know,
[00:19:23] Speaker A: Is it something exactly the same? Yeah, I feel exactly the same.
And I think it might be more of a confidence thing because we're so used to the digital world now because with the film cameras you've got to think about your settings a lot more. And yeah, you can't do any test shots or know how the shot is because the only way you're going to find that out, you go and get the film developed.
[00:19:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And yeah, you could have just spent all that money on 27 duds. You know, it's, it's always, it was always a gamble, you know, but we didn't, we didn't consider it back then because there was no alternative.
You know, it was just, it was film or nothing. And if it worked, it worked. And if it didn't, well, that's disappointing. But I'll have to try again. You know, it was the only way we could do it back then.
And Philip Johnson, who I also have to point out is older than me, showing your age. Greg Hannah Max AKA Ham and Eggs.
I had a Practica by Hammond Hanamix.
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm feel I, I could almost swear that it had, like, because my nan used to go and visit her sister in the States and they'd go to Disneyland and she'd bring back stuff for us. And I remember getting a Disneyland bucket hat and this 110 camera.
So, yeah. Thanks, Philip. Appreciate the filling in the info.
So, Thomas, you know, you've dabbled with cameras at a young age, and then you eventually decided to step up into another film camera and then, you know, into some. Into the digital world.
What was it that motivated you to invest in digital technology and sort of try to make something of it? Was there a drive to become a photographer or was it more about fostering a hobby for you?
[00:21:18] Speaker A: Well, I suppose what pushed me to go and buy my own camera was to sort of try and take my creativity to the next level and get out of my comfort zone and try new things.
Whether, okay, this will work. Okay, I won't do that again. That didn't work sort of thing. So I'm always loved trying new things.
And now that I've got the camera that I have today, I'm able to definitely explore those opportunities.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
And you know, I'm curious. Was, was street? Obviously the trams held have held an interest and public transport have held an interest for you for most of your life. But, you know, the street photography side of it, which is your other Instagram account celebrating the rest of your photography pursuits, which is Thomas William Photo.
[00:22:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that's my.
[00:22:04] Speaker B: Check it out.
[00:22:06] Speaker A: That's my main account, that one. And then I have the Melbourne Trap Adventures account, which is basically focused all around the Melbourne's trends.
[00:22:15] Speaker B: Yep. Let me bring up this one so I can show folks some of your work.
There is some tram shots in here that come up. Yep, that's come up.
And just beautiful. And again, the color palette is just quite lovely and soft.
I'm a big fan of that.
When did the street photography element come into it for you? Was it something that you purposely went, I want to be a street photographer, I want to try street photography? Or did it just sort of naturally evolve and you kind of slipped into a genre without realizing?
Where did that happen?
[00:22:48] Speaker A: I think the more street side of the photography instead of just the tram sort of kicked in, I think, early this year, and I sort of wanted to just try something new.
And I sort of started to really get into more the street side of it, probably the start of winter this year, where I started to do a lot of more of those candid shots in the city where I would sort of just stand somewhere or I might just be walking somewhere in the city. And I thought, oh, this make a great photo. So I would capture that moment, or if the light's right on that person, I'll capture that moment. And it sort of actually made me realize and seeing photography in a completely different way.
And I think it's even made me become a better photographer as well, because I'm sort of paying attention to light and the scenes a lot more.
[00:23:36] Speaker B: Yep, yep.
Yeah. And, you know, I love that. I love that it's still a fairly new genre for you, you know, And I'm sure whilst you've been taking photos for some time now, discovering that you actually align with the genre is a really exciting time, I think, because it gives you that sort of license to go, oh, okay, now I understand what it is that I'm trying to achieve. Perhaps. I know how our industry defines it, you know, because unfortunately, genres are a thing and. And people fit into one or many, you know, and it kind of. It. It almost feels like you have to select the genre at some stage in your photographic journey and say, this is what I am, you know.
But what other styles of photography did you enjoy before.
Before this became more of a. More of a focus?
[00:24:24] Speaker A: Well, I actually used to do a bit of everything and I used to do a bit of wildlife and sort of just take lots of different photos. And I was getting to a point where it just wasn't really working for me anymore.
So that's when I decided to get into more than Melbourne street and the landmark photography. And, yeah, that's basically where the passengers grew from there.
[00:24:46] Speaker B: Yep. And how are you finding Melbourne street photography, given that it is, you know, now that you've sort of got, oh, okay, well, this is what I'm doing now.
How are you finding that journey? I'm really keen to know.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely loving it at the moment.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: Yep. What are the bits that, you know, what are the highlights for you? What is it that you most look forward to when you grab your camera, pack a bag, head out the door to head into the city?
What's kind of inspiring you on the city streets of Melbourne?
[00:25:16] Speaker A: I suppose just capturing the everyday moments and just sort of just going. Walking around the city and then I might see something and then, oh, that'll make a great photo. And then that's when the excitement starts to build up. And then I photograph that and I was like, oh, that's fantastic.
Or sometimes there might be a cool tram about to come past and, oh, this composition looks fantastic. And I'll capture that. And then what what makes it even more exciting, in the past I've actually photographed the W class trams and then I've had the actual tram drivers reach out to me on my main Instagram page asking me, I would love that as a print.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: Oh wow.
[00:25:56] Speaker A: I've had amazing moments like that before.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: Yeah. From, from, from tram drivers.
[00:26:03] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:04] Speaker B: That's really cool. I love that.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: It makes me think of, you know, in the old days when all we had were those old W class before they bring in, brought in, I don't know what, what class they are or model, but there was the orange and white ones in Melbourne. They went to this sort of, this kind of soft umber colored orange and, and we still had conductors back then. We still had connies and actually my pop's brother, what does that make him? My great uncle.
Anyway, my pop's brother, he was a conductor for his whole life and retired when they.
Around the time that they stopped having conductors on Melbourne's trams.
You know, it was interesting. They always used to be characters and they'd always wear a uniform and they had these amazing leather bags and this machine that would punch the paper tickets. And you know, there was a lot of, there's a lot of detail in catching a tram back in the day. You know, it's a very different experience now. It's more self serve than ever.
Amazing.
Let me just find my thing here.
Now of course there is another topic that really keen to talk to you about and obviously, you know, do our part to raise awareness.
Now you, you have spearheaded the World Neurofibromatosis Awareness Day project.
Was that with your mother? You and your mother have been involved in that, is that right?
[00:27:36] Speaker A: My mum has the condition herself, but I'm involved in doing all the Shine A Light project.
[00:27:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Well, before we get into the project, can you tell us a little bit about what is neuro?
I got it right the first time, Thomas. I don't know if I could do it again. Neuro, where's it gone? Neurofibromatosis. Tell us a little bit about that condition.
What is it and how does it come to be?
[00:28:04] Speaker A: Well, neurofibromatosis is a genetic condition that you can get from mutation or you can get it from a relative.
And it's basically a condition where tumors can grow on the brain, the spine, or on the skin around your body, on nerve endings. And it can, it can affect your learning, it can affect your hearing, your brain and spine, of course, and can more or less also affect your confidence as well because you've got all these spots and lumps all over you, and that's where the. An appearance issue can be an issue. And.
Yeah, but it's becoming a lot more common now. The condition that was probably never even heard of back in the day, but it's still a rare condition today and a lot of people still don't know what it is.
[00:28:52] Speaker B: Yep. And. And so you said it can be. It can be hereditary, it can be, you know, genetically transferred amongst family, but it can also just come out of nowhere. Is that. Am I. Did I hear that right?
[00:29:04] Speaker A: Every mutation? Yeah, yeah. You can just get it out of nowhere.
[00:29:08] Speaker B: And is it something that you're born with or is it something that developed? Like, is it evident from birth that you have this condition or is it something that sort of.
[00:29:16] Speaker A: Absolutely. You basically. You basically get it from birth. And I suppose the signs of it would be you would have more than certain birthmarks, if that's the right word to use. They call it cafe latte spots, which is like a brown birthmark. And if you've got more than a certain number and then you were starting to show other issues, then that's when they would lean towards that condition.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: Yep. Okay. And is that how it's diagnosed through those symptoms, or is it diagnosed through, like, genetic testing, or how does that work?
[00:29:52] Speaker A: Well, if. If your relatives got it, then they would definitely test you to see if you've got it. Like, say if your mum and dad had it, they would definitely test you for it. But sometimes how they also test for it is if you had tumors removed or if you've got other issues that are related to the conditions is when they start to lean towards it. But sometimes it can be very hard to test for it because there's a lot of doctors out there that don't know what the condition is, or they've heard about it, but they don't know much about it.
[00:30:22] Speaker B: Yep.
And do you know when it was first identified as a. As a condition?
[00:30:29] Speaker A: I was diagnosed at the age of 14 months and my mum was diagnosed with it at exactly the same time I was diagnosed. So she grew up a lot of her childhood life not knowing that she had this condition. The doctors probably knew that she had this condition because she had a few surgeries due to tumors and they sort of just wanted to keep it quiet and not say anything.
[00:30:54] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:30:55] Speaker A: But when she looks back at it now, she can sort of tick the box. Oh, yeah, that's why. Tick box, that's why.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
Amazing. And what is. How prevalent is it? You know, is it.
How many. How many Aussies have it and how. How often does it come up?
[00:31:14] Speaker A: Actually, I think I might have that on my notes. Sorry.
[00:31:17] Speaker B: No, don't be sorry.
I might have the website here too.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's over 10,000, but I don't know the number at the top of my head.
[00:31:36] Speaker B: So. It is a. It is a rare condition, but yeah.
Yep.
Now, tell me a little bit about your involvement in.
In World NF Day, which is in May of each year, I believe.
Is it the 18th of May, is that correct?
[00:31:52] Speaker A: 17th of May.
[00:31:54] Speaker B: 17th of May. Thank you. Tell me a little bit about your involvement in that and, you know, what you've managed to achieve in support of raising awareness for that condition.
[00:32:06] Speaker A: So I started volunteering through the Children's Children Foundation Australia back in, at the end of 2024, and they basically asked me and I said yes, of course, more than happy to do it. To email landmarks councils, community centres all around Australia and ask them to shine a light in blue or Green on the 17th of May, which is world Europa Ptosis Awareness day around the globe. So, basically, on the night on the 17th or around that day, landmarks around Australia will light up in blue and green.
[00:32:40] Speaker B: That's incredible.
[00:32:41] Speaker A: I think I managed. Yeah, it's fantastic. And this year I managed to get about 214 landmarks around Australia to light up, which is a record number that we've actually achieved in the last couple of years, which is fantastic. And then on the night of the 17th, I'll go into the city of Melbourne and photograph the landmarks that lit up in blue and green.
Knowing that.
[00:33:09] Speaker B: Gone. Sorry, I spoke over you again.
[00:33:11] Speaker A: No, that's all good. Knowing when I went and photographed it, it had a very special emotional feeling, thinking, oh, wow, I actually made this light up.
[00:33:20] Speaker B: Yeah, that's incredible.
[00:33:22] Speaker A: It made it even more special.
[00:33:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, of course, yeah. You're documenting something that you instigated and. And how many of those landmarks were around Melbourne?
[00:33:33] Speaker A: I think we roughly. In Melbourne, I think we roughly had about four to five.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:33:41] Speaker A: So I think I went and photographed the Melbourne Town hall, the Baltic Bridge and the old treasury building. There were the three.
I got to wider.
[00:33:52] Speaker B: Yep. Okay. But you said there weren't that many
[00:33:55] Speaker A: in the city, unfortunately, but that's okay. Yeah.
[00:34:00] Speaker B: Yep. Oh, well, let's aim for double this year or next year, I should say.
[00:34:03] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:34:05] Speaker B: Increase that awareness.
[00:34:06] Speaker A: And in the suburbs and even regional Victoria, there were heaps.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: Yep. And what were some of the standout, you know, monuments or sites that participated in the NF Awareness Day.
What was some of the big ticket.
[00:34:24] Speaker A: The standout. The standout was. Was fantastic. Like, they did social posters on their landmarks that were lining up for this and that. That might even maybe more feel special because I was part of that.
But the awareness from this year was fantastic.
[00:34:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:41] Speaker A: For the landmarks and so, which was
[00:34:43] Speaker B: fantastic that often awareness days and, you know, special days for different conditions are in support of, you know, fundraising for medical research and to support people that are impacted by a condition. Is that kind of the goal of NF Awareness Day? Is it to not only just raise awareness in the community that this exists, but also to maybe, you know, grease the wheels of fundraising to support medical research? Is that. Is that. Was that kind of like the ultimate outcome for this?
[00:35:17] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. And also just to help get the awareness out there to let people know that what the NF condition is and how it affects everyone and sort of just to let everyone know that you're not alone. Not alone sort of thing. Yeah, because. Yeah, being a rare condition and then when a lot of people don't know much about it.
Yeah, it makes a big difference. Getting the weirdest out there. And when I was out there taking the photos on some of the landmarks, a couple people approached me because I also had my mum with me that night because we were staying in the city and a lot of people said, oh, what's. What's this light up for? And we had these little QR code cards that we could hand out from the Children's Children Foundation Australia, and then they could basically scan that QR code and it would take them straight to their website and just explain what it is and why it's light up and everything.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: Yep. Oh, it's incredible. What an amazing thing to be involved in. I. I can only imagine you. You had a lot of pride in that and I'm.
I'm fairly confident your mum felt the same way about you. Yeah.
[00:36:20] Speaker A: And it's more than 13, 000 around Australia.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: It is. Okay, well, it's still quite a low number in that against the 28 million population. Yeah, it is still a rare condition.
And so what does the year ahead look like for you with NF awareness? Is there, you know, are you working on new projects to further promote it? What's coming up for you with this initiative?
[00:36:45] Speaker A: Well, I've already started to do it again for next year's Light up, and I'm challenging myself now to sort of get out of my comfort zone and just explore new locations and see if I can try and get a bigger number for next year.
[00:37:00] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:37:00] Speaker A: And so far I think we've already got roughly 100 lighting up for next year.
[00:37:06] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:37:07] Speaker A: Fantastic.
[00:37:08] Speaker B: Just in Australia.
[00:37:10] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's incredible. And, and what, what. I'm really keen to know what, you know, what sites are you. Would you love to get involved in NF awareness?
You know, maybe even just in Melbourne? What are some of those landmarks that you'd love to get on board?
[00:37:29] Speaker A: I'd love to get Flinder Street Station on board.
And yeah, in Parliament House because they've not long started doing little lights up because I think I was in the city, oh, January this year on Australia Day, and I was heading home and then I saw what Parliament House looked like and I thought, oh, wow, I got to get a photo because it just looked amazing.
[00:37:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. These, these light ups, especially in big cities like Melbourne, they become quite popular and often you'll see a building, a building lit up in a certain way and you'll wonder, you know, what, what is it for today? You know, I can't remember the name of the building, but one of Melbourne's tallest buildings often does the light ups.
It's gone to me now.
Very cool. Let's just, let's just take a quick pause in conversation. I just want to check in on some folks that have dropped messages.
Rodney was in at the MCG on the weekend. I, I'm. Yeah, I thought I saw photos that you'd put out there. I was really surprised because there were no seagulls, boats or, or surfers, Rodney. So I'm not sure what business you had in the, in the big smoke, but I'm sure it was here for the footy, which I can understand.
Robert Varna. Just talking about that 110. I had a Kodak Instamatic camera that used flash cubes way back in the 60s. I'm old. You are old. That's older than me, Robert. I didn't know that.
My condolences.
And Tristan X. Good morning all. G', day, Tristan. And of course, Phil Thompson's jumped in the, in the chat. Good morning all. G', day, mate. Great to see you. Been loving some of your recent photos on your socials too.
Really great stuff.
So getting back to NF awareness, is there stuff that everyday people can do to support the NF Awareness initiative?
What would you ideally like to see more Australians do in favour of this cause?
[00:39:38] Speaker A: I suppose it would be just getting the awareness out there and because with this condition not being very well known because it affects everyone differently. Because you're not going to always have the same problem when you've got this condition.
Just sort of, you know, the supports could be better.
You know, they are doing medical research, of course, but because this condition, there's no cure. You basically got to keep having all these MRI scans done, CT scans done to check on the tumors and that.
And then there's the type of tumor that you can get that you have to have regular scanning as well because there's a slight risk it can turn cancerous and all that.
[00:40:21] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
I imagine that that must be quite challenging living with the knowledge that you have that sort of, you know, a medical time bomb that could form and could be life threatening.
[00:40:36] Speaker A: Yeah, so there's always lots of medical appointments involved with this condition and it's sort of the never ending tunnel.
[00:40:44] Speaker B: Yeah, of course, yeah. Something that can't be cured.
Flipping switches back to your photography, but also keeping in mind, you know, the NF awareness stuff has, has this condition had an impact on you, whether it be negatively or positively with your creative life? You know, has it, has it posed challenges that you've had to overcome or has it opened doorways for you or opportunity?
Let me know what you think about that.
[00:41:13] Speaker A: Well, interesting thing is this is going back to 2022.
This is before I well and truly volunteered to do all the lights up.
Flinders was actually lighting up for NF awareness that year in blue and green and they actually asked me to go in and take a photo of it and I was sort of like, oh, I'm not sure if I want to go in. And then last minute we just decided to go in and that's. Yeah. Wow. And it looked amazing, everything. And that was more or less my first ever night photos. And I did that on my Nikon D7200. And I suppose that's where the Melbourne photography passion just sort of just grew from there.
But living with this condition has probably helped me push me out there to have more passion for my photography, more. And it's the photography that's keeping me going.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: Okay, can you explain that a little bit more for us? Like, you know, how does it, how does it encourage you to keep going like you said, despite this, this terrible condition?
In what ways?
[00:42:19] Speaker A: Well, for one thing I gotta, I gotta keep moving and exercising because as a way I just feel too much pressure in my spine and everything.
But I suppose it's helped me become a bit of creator as well.
And you know, and then it's also pretty much a distraction from the condition as well. It's keeping me going in a positive way.
And after going in on that night, on the 17th of May, back in 2022, to do that photo of Flinders, it sort of made me see Melbourne in a different way as well.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And did you. Did I hear correctly? You said that was the first time you'd done night photography in Melbourne? Yeah, yeah. What incredible. You know, turning that opportunity into, you know, changing how you approach your craft.
I think that's lovely. I rarely get into the city at night to do street photography and when I do, I always love. I even bought a nice black mist filter for my favorite lens that I'm still yet to use.
And Lucinda Goodwin will be ashamed of me because she loves a good black mist filter.
But, yeah, I think that's really fascinating that, you know, through this invitation to be involved and to take photos of the first NF awareness, you know, that. That you'd seen the light up. Sorry.
I think it's great. Yeah, it's fortuitous. Providence, maybe.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's just where the passion just sort of grew from there.
[00:43:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
Tell me about your street photography a bit. You know, you mentioned that it gives you purpose. You're out and about, it's important for you to keep moving, to be exercising, to take pressure off your spine and. And those sorts of things. And, you know, from personal experience, street photography is amazing for those things, as well as creating a mindful state of mind and having a mindful pursuit and just getting yourself out of the house and, you know, breathing new oxygen is really important.
Talk to me a little bit about your approach to street, though, when you choose to head into town to have a photo session, to walk around and see what you can see and maybe hunt down some nice trams.
What are those journeys like for you? Where does it begin and where does it end for you on the day?
[00:44:40] Speaker A: Well, it's actually really interesting because some days when I go in, I know exactly what I want to photograph and then other times I don't know what I want to photograph. So sometimes I feel I've just got to hold my camera in my hand and sort of just go for a walk and sort of warm up a little bit. And then that's sort of when the motivation, the creativity starts to grow.
Because sometimes when I go in, I might get a little bit overwhelmed and sort of, oh, I'm not too sure what I want to photograph, all that. So I'll just start going for a walk around town somewhere and then sort of, that's when the moment starts to kick in.
[00:45:16] Speaker B: Yeah. No, that's interesting. Yeah. For me, I usually start my journeys at Linda Street Station and I'll spend a good half an hour, 45 minutes just in those. In that open public space right in front of the. Underneath the clocks. You've got the clocks, the stairs, and then you've got that big sort of open space. I'll spend half an hour there just warming up, you know, because it's, it's a great spot to get started with street photography because not only have you got this beautiful building, you've got all, all walks of life coming out of that, out of the shadows and onto the steps, you know, and it's, it's like that Forrest Gump saying that life is like a box of chocolates, you know, it is. Everyone's different. And you, these opportunities just come at you constantly when you're standing there, especially when there's good light, because in the morning, that face of Flinders street, that, that has the clocks on it, that gets, you know, that is right in the squared up to the sun, early sun. And I think it's a, it's a great place to get started.
Do you have any favorite, sort of.
Do you head off aimlessly and just follow the light or do you, do you like to follow, you know, a bit of a prescribed path of where you want to go to see if that's where you know, you're going to be able to find shots?
[00:46:30] Speaker A: Well, I definitely have my favorite spots, but I also try and try new locations as well. Or depending on what the weather's doing, if I wanted to photograph this thing in a certain way, I go to that spot. If it's like, if the lighting's right or if it's raining, I definitely go to that spot. But yeah, I suppose I mainly try and sort of just walk around new areas of the city when I can.
And then if I see a little spot, I sort of put a memory into my head thinking, okay, I'm going to go back there on this certain day when the weather's like this and that.
[00:47:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. I, I can't keep memories in my head for much time these days, so I use my. I use Google Maps and Starbocation.
[00:47:12] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I do as well.
[00:47:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:15] Speaker A: And then sometimes I'll look at other photos to get inspiration as well, which also helps.
[00:47:21] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, I really like that, you know, mapping out the good spots and, you know, sometimes I'll go. So if I can be bothered And I'm not distracted by the light. I'll be, you know, I'll put a note in that, you know, in winter at 11am this is an amazing pocket of light because obviously it's going to be different, you know, to the warmer months in summer.
[00:47:42] Speaker A: And then sometimes, sometimes when you go and take a photo, you can go to a location and you think, oh, this is not going to work out. And then when you go home to start editing the photo, it actually works out to be even better.
[00:47:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I call those happy accidents. I like, I like it when that comes to be. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, we need to go out on a street walk together.
[00:48:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:48:03] Speaker B: What are we. What are we doing sitting here in a studio talking about photography? Let's go out and actually take some photos.
[00:48:08] Speaker A: We'll.
[00:48:08] Speaker B: We'll tee that up later. But I'd love to catch up with you and go on a street walk together.
You know, it's my thing. I've done it for quite some time now and.
And like you, I needed a pursuit. Street photography helped me work through grief after the loss of a loved one. And it's continued to be myself in a lot of ways.
If I'm anxious or I'm feeling agitated or edgy because I've been housebound for too long, getting out and going for a street walk, for me, it's an awakening. It really brings my brain into the moment as opposed to worrying about the past and the future, which tends to be my natural resting place.
Let's talk a little bit about gear. And, you know, you talked a little bit about how you started off with a film camera and you don't remember what sort of camera that was.
[00:49:03] Speaker A: No, because I was quite. I was quite little.
And I also used a lot of the disposable camera. And then when I got my first digital camera, it was a little Kodak one.
[00:49:14] Speaker B: Yep. Just a little point and shoot.
[00:49:17] Speaker A: Yep, pretty much. And then I got another little Canon point and shoot. And then I got a Nikon. I think it was a P520.
And it was like in a shiny red color. And the zoom on that was just incredible.
[00:49:33] Speaker B: I remember the red ones.
[00:49:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:49:36] Speaker B: Was it Canon?
They did a red one, too, for a while.
I can't remember what. What one it was. I think it was a bridging camera where the lens was a. You know, it was one of those kind of super zooms.
[00:49:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it was sort of one of
[00:49:49] Speaker B: those fixed in place. Yeah. And they had those colorful bodies. I'm trying to appeal to different market Segments which was really interesting. Hey folks, if you remember what that Canon was, I'd love to know.
And let me know if you actually ever owned a camera that was anything other than black or silver.
Really keen to hear as well because we're starting to see Sony always from time to time would put it put out a white camera body, especially for their, a 6000 series of cameras. I think they put out a couple of whites for that and I think for the Z, Was it the Z10? They put out a white body version. It always interests me when they choose to do this.
You know, it's like who are you trying to appeal to?
You know, what's, what's the strategy behind putting out a body in that color? It's fascinating that, you know, camera brands think that that's, that's going to make something more appealing and it probably does. You know, I'm sure they don't do it because it just for fun, but it always interests me.
And so these days you're rocking. You said a Sony a 7 4, a 74.
[00:50:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:50] Speaker B: And how are you finding that compared to your, your old base beast Nikons?
[00:50:55] Speaker A: Oh, I've loved, I've loved my new camera. I've had it for about two or three years now.
[00:51:03] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:51:04] Speaker A: And it was the best decision I probably made because some of the photos I've taken is probably some of the best photos I've ever taken.
[00:51:13] Speaker B: Yep. No, that's fair.
[00:51:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And it sort of made me see photography in a different way again.
[00:51:21] Speaker B: Yep. Were you dissatisfied with the Nikon DSLR outcomes or was it that you just, you didn't know better until you knew better?
[00:51:30] Speaker A: It just felt like a change.
[00:51:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:51:33] Speaker A: I just wanted to explore other brands.
[00:51:36] Speaker B: Yep. Yep.
[00:51:38] Speaker A: Because I've always stuck to Nikon for so long and I thought I'd like to try other brands and I thought if I go to Sony it sort of still feels a little bit similar to the Nikon.
[00:51:51] Speaker B: Yep. And you know, one of the great things about the Sony systems of mirrorless cameras is that they are so adaptable, you know, so many people will adapt, you know, Canon, Nikon, Fujifilm and obviously Sony. But also all the big third party lenses to Sony system. Sony's always been quite open about their mount and allowing others to make lenses.
So it's just a cheeky comment in here from David Mascara. G', day David. Glad you're joining us from the bay area of San Fran. Go easy on Nick, on Greg. I'm watching. Sorry, I'm sorry, I got carried away. You Know how I am. I'm a Fuji fanboy, Thomas.
I've been shooting with Fujifilm now for what would be like 13, 14 years maybe.
I can't do the math. That's another thing with getting old, the math leaves you.
But yeah, I'm a bit of a Fuji fanboy. I'm a tragic.
And so I tend to discriminate against every other brand every chance I get because clearly they're inferior.
Talk to me about lenses. What do you head out the door with when you're going to shoot in the city?
What are your lens choices like?
[00:53:02] Speaker A: When I go and do my day photos in the city, I have my 70 to 200 on.
I use that lens probably 90% of the time because I just absolutely love that lens.
It's made me see again, it's made me see Melbourne in a different way. And it does a fantastic job at photographing the trams as well because I'm able to do completely different views that I've never done in the past when I would move. Because before I had the 70 to 200, I would just use my 24 to 70 lens, which I still use occasionally, but I always tend to lean towards back to my 70 to 200 and I even use that one as well when I do my street photos as well.
[00:53:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. Oh, that's really interesting. So for me, I'm a wide to standard prime guy, so I shoot with a 24 mil equivalent on the Fujifilm or a 35 mil equivalent.
And so as a result, I need to get fairly close to my subjects. But you buy yourself some distance. You get real estate in between you and your subject. And I think that's what makes all of your tram shots so interesting because not only is it the framing and the color that you've applied through editing, but there's a really nice compression in your images that sort of compress layers, whether it be of trees or tram lines or whatever it may be. And then you know that that tram just pops as a result in the center of frame.
[00:54:30] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I love about it as well.
[00:54:33] Speaker B: Yep, I imagine.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's very, very evident in, in your work.
And do you find that the 70 to 200 also gives you a bit of safety in terms of giving you time to set up in front of an oncoming tram? You know, because if a tram's coming right at you, you need some space to set up, to take the shot and then to get out of the way. Is that, does that allow does that give you that flexibility and time?
[00:55:01] Speaker A: Yeah, but I'm also making sure I'm standing in a certain position so then the tram can still pass me safely. So I'm always cautious where I'm taking my, my tram photos.
[00:55:12] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:55:13] Speaker A: And also 90 of the time, I generally would photograph it after it's past me because then I could sort of go out in front of it after it's passed me, when I know what zoom range I want and basically just take it from there and then that's somehow where I want to get a nice close up photo of it. I'm able to achieve that. Or if I want to photograph it a little bit further away from me, I'm also able to achieve that as well.
And then sometimes if I want to photograph it coming towards me, I'll sort of stand on an angle on the opposite side so I can still pass me safely. And I'm also safe myself.
Yeah, and I'm also able to achieve that as well with the 70 to 200.
[00:55:55] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, no, that. I think that's a great process. And given that, you know that, yeah, trams are double ended in terms of, you know, you look at one end is exactly the same as the other. I guess that, you know, they're moving away from you, even gives you greater flexibility and time to assess the shot, get in the right position and, and take the shot.
Do you ever, do you ever consider using wider lenses and wider primes, perhaps? Is that something you've ever played with or something?
[00:56:23] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I would use my 16 to 35 lens if I want to do, say, for example, a puddle photo.
So after it rains, I might photograph a landmark with a puddle and I can absolutely achieve that with my wider lens. It's just the challenging part is you've only got a short time to do it because you're on the middle of the road, of course, and you basically just gotta find that right spot as well.
[00:56:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yep. No, that's very true.
And just on the topic of, you know, safety, when you are out in public taking photos and on the streets of Melbourne taking photos, just in the time that you've been pursuing this genre and your craft, have you noticed a change in how Melbourne feels? You know, does Melbourne feel safe to you? Has that changed in recent years?
Where do you land on that topic?
[00:57:18] Speaker A: I suppose the one thing I've probably have noticed the change is that the city's not as clean as it used to be.
And I think I noticed that a lot more when I went on an interstate trip earlier this year, which was really interesting.
Brisbane.
[00:57:39] Speaker B: And you thought the Brisbane.
[00:57:40] Speaker A: Never been to Brisbane?
I think so, yeah. I just. I noticed it was a lot tidier. And then when I came back to Melbourne, I. I just. I don't know, something about the, the dirtiness just appealed to me a little bit. Maybe it's just something I haven't noticed before and I just noticed it now.
[00:58:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? I noticed the other day I was catching a train home from town after I'd run a workshop in the city and I just marvel because, you know, you're on a train. I was standing because it was quite busy. It was after the footy had finished and just staring absentmindedly out the window and just notice the amount of junk and trash, water bottles and wrappers and Hungry Jack's bags and everything, really, just cumulating on the sides of the tracks, even smack in the middle of the city.
You know, the, you know the, the, the overpass that is Federation Square, how all of the eastbound trains go under that before they head out, just along that small section between the platform. And getting out from under Federation Square, the amount of rubbish that was on the ground.
[00:58:50] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, well, even when you walk under Flinders Street Station, where you go from Elizabeth street end to the Yarra, where you want to go over Sandwich Bridge or ever Walker Bridge, even when you go under that underpass, it's quite dirty under there. And the smells as well.
[00:59:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I have noticed that about Melbourne, too. Yeah, it's certain. Certain pockets of Melbourne have developed an odor that's not pleasant. Definitely not.
But, you know, I mean, to its credit, you know, it's a. It's a big city. It's an old city.
[00:59:23] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:59:25] Speaker B: It's been a huge amount of change over the years from generation to generation. You know, Melbourne used to be considered like the, the New York of the Southern hemisphere. It was quite a popular destination for high society as well. And it's. It's interesting how things have changed.
And what about personal safety? You know, I've had some challenges as a street photographer, more so in my home neighborhood of Prahran and South Yarra, where I've been accosted by people who are upset that I'm taking photos and don't understand, you know, what, what I'm doing, what my rights are, you know, how I'm approaching it, that sort of thing.
Less issues in the city.
But have you ever faced any of those sort of challenging situations with people that have kind of protested about what you're doing?
[01:00:12] Speaker A: Not really, but I'm also. I'm also cautious. What I do. Like, sometimes I. I feel, no, I'm not going to do it. Like, I feel I. That's where the safety sort of starts to come in. I thought, no, I'm not going to do that. That, or if I'm standing in the right spot, I sort of try and blend in somewhere.
[01:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah. How do you go about that? Blending in with a 70 to 200?
[01:00:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I sort of just. I sort of just blend in with the crowds.
[01:00:42] Speaker B: Yep. Nice. And I imagine.
[01:00:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Or sometimes I'll just pretend I'm photographing something else.
[01:00:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I do that too, which is
[01:00:53] Speaker A: sometimes a bit tricky, but sometimes you can sort of get away with that.
[01:00:57] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, it is interesting. And, you know, as I said, I tend to shoot wider. Obviously. I have a 16mil f 2.8, which is a 24mil equivalent, and I have my absolutely beautiful 23mil 1.4, which is a 35mil equivalent. But that does mean I have to get super close to people sometimes. You know, they have to be right in front of me for me to.
Because I like to get sort of people up close. I like to get the details of the hands and facial expressions and, you know, know that that can raise alarm bells for people.
And as I said, I have been accosted a couple of times here and I've spoken about it before on the podcast when those things have happened and how that, you know, really shook my confidence. It. It made me question whether I should keep doing this.
Fortunately, I am still doing it because I cannot ignore the street scenes, especially when the light is just right, you know, and you're in. You're in the right mood, you're in the right headspace, you're seeing everything unfold. And, you know, sometimes it's. It's hard to avoid. It's hard to avoid.
Thomas, I'm keen to know how you manage motivation these days. You know, people. People approach different genres for different reasons.
And sometimes we hit a slump, a creative slump that can often be spurred on by a whole range of things. One of those aforementioned, you know, issues where someone has protested about what you're doing, and it's been quite a heated discussion that nearly threw me off for street photography for a while.
How do you manage your own motivation?
What tricks do you have to keep yourself focused on the task?
[01:02:43] Speaker A: Well, sometimes when I have a motivation issue, I sort of just put the camera down and sort of have a break for a little while and Sort of just so then I don't suffer from the creative burnout sort of feel, because sometimes that can happen and then you sort of go in and you've sort of been in the city for a good half an hour, 45 minutes, and you haven't got anything because the motivation is not there.
The burnout sort of starts to kick in.
So sometimes in the past, what I've done is I sort of just put the camera away, just sort of gone for a walk, maybe go and grab a coffee and sort of just sit down and relax for a bit and then sort of try again. And sometimes it works and the motivation kicks in. Or sometimes I'll probably just go back home and sort of just put the camera away for maybe a few days and then try again and then it sort of all comes back.
[01:03:37] Speaker B: Yeah, now that's interesting.
Yeah, I think you're right. I think sometimes you just need to get out and walk and you either do or you don't see the scenes and the light and. Yeah, I've definitely had those moments where I've gone into the city. You know, I might have taken 20 photos and I just feel so lackluster about all of them, you know, And I. Interestingly, I heard someone say the other day, I can't remember if it was a past guest, but someone said, you know, if you're feeling. When you're taking photos, your photos are going to be.
Yeah, you're not. You're not in the right headspace for it. And I often wonder, how do working professionals deal with that? And maybe they just go into autopilot where they've done this sort of, you know, whether it be a wedding day or a corporate headshot shoot where you just. You just don't feel it, you know, but you've got to do it because you've booked a client and the time is here and now and the money is coming to your account, all those sorts of things. And I wonder, often wonder how working professional photographers deal with. With the motivational issues and not feeling creative and not wanting to invest energy in that pursuit.
And I think you're right.
[01:04:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And then sometimes I might take a photo and I might have a moment. And this is another motivation issue where I think the photo is not good enough. And it actually, it is a really good photo, but you got a little voice in your head telling you that it's not.
[01:04:58] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, Yep.
Yeah, that's very true.
[01:05:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:05:03] Speaker B: And some, you know, I.
I'll ask you about your editing process in a moment, but I like talking about myself too much, obviously.
But you know, sometimes when I edit images, I. I try to edit my street images pretty much the same day I took them, you know, and the reason why I do that is that a, there's not a lot for me to curate. It's not like I'm comparing one shot to another, you know, where someone who photographs a wedding is going to look at the kiss moment photos and work out which of the 10 they took is the best one. You know, pretty much every street scene that I shoot, one, maybe a second photo of that same, that same setting.
You know, when, when I had my trips to Japan and I took a stupid amount of photos and I thought I'd gone through them all, I had gone through them all and I'd chosen my best ones. But then about a year later, I went back and went through that, that list of 7,000 photos again. And then I found my B sides to my A sides, you know, and then I went back about two years later and found my C sides, you know, and it's interesting as we, as we maybe develop and mature as creatives, what we see in a frame when you, maybe when we're starting out or whatever point compared to several years later, with more experience, knowledge, you know, wisdom and age under our belts, you know, how that changes how we see our own work. I think that's really fascinating.
But talk to me about your, you know, curation and editing process when it comes to. We talked a little bit about your color preset, but I imagine you're using a platform like Lightroom.
[01:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:06:39] Speaker B: And how do you find that process of editing street scenes and curating your collection? How does that work out for you?
[01:06:48] Speaker A: Well, I suppose when I started editing with Lightroom, like a completely different edited now than probably what I was when I first started. And I suppose as we take more photos, so the more editing we do, the more confidence and we grow using a program.
But I try and edit the photo on the day if I can, or I will probably do it the next day or the day after that. I think it just depends on how many photos you've got to try and edit.
[01:07:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yep.
[01:07:19] Speaker A: Sometimes also personal life gets in the way, gets busy, and you start working on your photos and you sort of look at the time of it. Oh, it's only 2 o'. Clock. And then you've done like 5, 8, 10 photos and it's like, oh, it's 5 o'. Clock.
[01:07:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:07:36] Speaker A: And you have to stop.
[01:07:37] Speaker B: Yep. And other times, you know, for Me personally, I'll get home and I'll be tired or maybe it's late or, you know, my brain has shifted to a different way, a different mode. I'm thinking about problems or whatever it may be, and I just don't feel like sitting in front of a computer for hours.
[01:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I have that, I have that issue as well. And then some, some days where, oh, I need to edit my photos, I'll start editing one, and then all of a sudden my mood will just change and then I sort of just don't do anything, I just do something else. And then maybe an hour later I'll try again, see how I feel. Because you basically got to be in the mood to do photo editing.
[01:08:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. And I don't know about you, but the reason why I like to do my edits so soon is because I want to, I want to make sure that in my edits and in the curation of my images and the final output that I capture the mood of the day, that I capture what I saw accurately, what I felt, you know, And I can't do that two weeks later. I can't try to throw back and necessarily go back and think, oh, well, on this day it was, I was feeling really down, I was feeling really moody. So I want to, I want to make these images feel a bit more moody, you know, in that way.
[01:08:48] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I do.
[01:08:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And I find that as the more I progress in this craft, in this genre specifically, the more I want to just nail it out straight away, just get to the, you know, get the story right the first time and try to shrink that gap between taking and editing any image.
And it sounds like you, you have a similar philosophy around that, which is lovely to hear.
Let me ask you a bunch of little quick, maybe some quick fire rapid questions about your street photography.
And if things are a trade secret, feel free to say that's a trade secret.
But I will say this.
Okay, so you've got to come up with an alternative.
So let's kick off perhaps with what is your favorite class of tram?
[01:09:36] Speaker A: Oh, that's easy. The W class tram.
[01:09:39] Speaker B: The W class. And let me test your knowledge. Do you know how long the W class trams were in operation before City Circle?
[01:09:48] Speaker A: Oh, well, I know they're about 80 years old now.
[01:09:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that is crazy.
[01:09:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I found, I, I found that out recently, which, yeah, I was big, got smacked as well. And I think I also found out that I could be wrong, but I think the Triple 8W class tram number that's in service of the City at the moment is the oldest one.
[01:10:19] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
Because I remember, I'm not sure, a few years ago now they questioned the safety of the W class because they were so old. I didn't know they were that old. But they brought into question whether they should still be in operation even for City Circle. But I'm fairly sure they upgraded a whole bunch of stuff on.
[01:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah, I think they did some restoring works to all the current ones that they use for the City Circle, I think to bring them up. Up to safety standards, I think.
[01:10:47] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Okay, cool. Next question.
Is there a tramway museum in Melbourne, in Victoria, and have you visited it yet?
[01:10:56] Speaker A: Yeah, there's. There's a tram museum in Hawthorne.
I went there when I was a. Yeah, I went there when I was a kid. I haven't been there for a long time. I'm sort of. I'm in an earring referee to go back there now.
I've also done the talking tram and Bendigo.
[01:11:13] Speaker B: Ah, yes, we'll talk. We're only talking about that on Monday night because Justin and Lucky Straps and one of our co hosts, Jim, they live in Bendigo and we're talking about. I think we're more talking about the tram, about you. Coming up on today's show, we were talking about the trams and I questioned Justin whether those old rattlers were still running in Bendigo. But that's of course, is more of a tourist service, isn't it, than a. Yeah, than a commute like most Melbournians do.
But yeah, I haven't been.
I haven't been to the tram museum. I only found out about it recently. It came up on a social media post because another thing that really fascinates me about Melbourne is the tram depots. A lot of them are gone now, but some of the big ones are massive facilities.
They occupy huge chunks of land in Melbourne, you know, and they have, you know, maintenance and repair and assembly places and they're often fascinating to just watch as well, you know, let alone photograph. There's a lot going on in those spaces.
[01:12:14] Speaker A: Lots of living room depots.
Some of the tram depots have got lots of character in it because some of the tram depots are old buildings now.
[01:12:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, really old.
[01:12:24] Speaker A: They've got. All got personalities in them.
[01:12:27] Speaker B: Yep, yep.
I remember not that long ago I went and visited the team at Blonde Robot. So Blonde Robot handled Tamron Australia as well as a bunch of other photography equipment brands. And I'm pretty sure it was the Office, which is In Northcote.
It's quite a big old warehouse space. It's been converted, but inside the warehouse is all these huge industrial size cranes with massive steel girders that run the length of the building. And I'm pretty sure they told me, Joe told me when I was there that the building used to be part of the tram network, that it was, you know, used for maintenance and assembly and they've just, they've kept a lot of that infrastructure in there as character for this building. You know, this, this new office suite, which is, which is very cool.
Anyway, next, next quick fire question for you.
Favorite tram route
[01:13:26] Speaker A: probably would have to be the Port Melbourne tram, which would be the 109.
[01:13:32] Speaker B: And where does that go from? And to.
[01:13:36] Speaker A: So that leads from Box Hill, which is in eastern suburbs of Melbourne, and then it basically goes to Port Melbourne, which is down by the.
Where the Port Phillip Bay is.
And if people have done cruise ships to Melbourne, that's sort of where. Where it is. And that's where the Spirit of Tasmania used to depart from years ago.
[01:13:57] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Yeah, My kids, Albert park, that they used to use that tram.
[01:14:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Because years ago it used to be the train.
Yeah.
[01:14:08] Speaker B: And then it became the light rail and.
[01:14:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:14:12] Speaker B: Okay. So that's, that's quite an old tramway.
[01:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. And then I think I also saw somewhere that the Route 75, which is the Vermont south tram, which is also in the eastern suburbs and that goes down to Dockland City waterfront.
That particular route I think is the longest route in the world and also made the Guinness Records Book sort of thing.
[01:14:38] Speaker B: Wow, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Melbourne's public transport has a lot of interesting facts and records, like Platform 1 at Flinders Street.
Granted, 70% of it's in disrepair and probably should be, you know, up upgraded and used for something good. But I'm Pretty sure Platform 1 for the longest time was the longest train platform in the world.
[01:14:59] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, I think it might have been because years ago where. It's where the part of the platform's blocked off, I think that used to be known as Princess Pierce Station back in the day when the City Loop not long open and I think they had like City Circle trains.
[01:15:17] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:15:19] Speaker A: So it basically would just go through the loop and then come back out near Spencer street, which is some cross station now, but I still call it Spencer Street.
[01:15:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:15:28] Speaker A: And then it would come back into flinters again.
[01:15:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I can't shake that Spencer street station thing. Southern Cross feels weird to me.
[01:15:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:15:37] Speaker B: Amazing structure. Amazing. I love Photographing Southern Cross.
We had a photography walk for wellbeing a couple of weeks ago, two weekends ago on a Friday morning. Craig Wechin, past guest of ours, but also he runs a massive photographic studio. He's also a workshop instructor and he's one of the instructors at bfop. Amazing human being.
Yeah, he, he. We had our photo walk for well being and we met up at Southern Cross and the light was just beautiful because again, it's in one of those positions that gets that if the, if the direction of the sun is right, you get some really nice light cutting through the outside and the inside of, of Spencer Street. Southern Cross Station. Sorry.
All right, next question. Favorite intersection in Melbourne in the CBD for street photography. What's. What's your favorite location?
[01:16:30] Speaker A: Oh, that's a tricky one because there's quite a few I love going. I suppose where I've been going quite a bit of late would be along Burke Street. Mel. Where I would do tram photos and street photos.
[01:16:44] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:16:45] Speaker A: I suppose another favorite spot to do my tram photos would be on the corner of Elizabeth street and Flinder street of the trams.
[01:16:54] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Yep. That's the terminus there. Yeah.
[01:16:57] Speaker A: Yeah. More or less. Where the Vermont south and the City circle and the 75 tram go to. Which is the first tram stopped just after you pass Elizabeth Street.
[01:17:08] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:17:09] Speaker A: But on Flinders Street.
[01:17:11] Speaker B: Okay. On Flinders. Yep. I know the one I mean. Yeah. Oh, very cool.
What other quick fire questions we got? If anyone in the chat has a quick fire question for, for Thomas about his street photography and his tram photography, please drop it in the comments.
Speaking of which, I might just jump into a couple of quick comments here. Thomas, just to bring everything up to date, Sam Olsen has, has joined the chat. G', day, Sam. Good to see you.
Took Sam on a street walk a couple of weeks ago when she was in Melbourne.
We had a great day.
Philip Johnson says, I love my Sony 70 202.8. It's my most used lens.
Yeah, it's a great lens. And Philip, you use it in landscape scenarios and when you're out hunting light in the Blue Mountains and your imagery is just magic.
[01:18:00] Speaker A: I use it for my landscapes as well. The 70 200.
[01:18:04] Speaker B: You do.
[01:18:05] Speaker A: And the results that it brings is just amazing.
[01:18:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I really, you know, we often fall under this misconception that landscape photography is about wide lenses and, you know, and seeing the work of people like Philip and other amazing photographers where they, they create almost an intimacy with the, with the environment, you know, with the natural landscape. And they will you know, hone in on a section of it to celebrate that part rather than just the big broad. Here's the vista, here's the horizon line, here's the clouds, here's the sun peeking through. There's a much more intentional dynamic in those sorts of photos shot with a long lens.
[01:18:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And I can actually give you a perfect example. I did a recent photo, I think I did this Monday afternoon. I waited to sunset. I went down to Footscray, and I took this photo of this railway bridge, because this is basically the brumby street I think it is, and all the freight trains go into this tiny tunnel. And I photographed this railway bridge with the city skyline in the background. And you sort of got this brick wall. And I sort of framed a part of the brick wall on the side and had photographed the bridge with the skyline in the background. And I would just wait for that golden hour sunset. And then when you get that faint color sort of as the sun's setting behind you, sometimes you'll get a bit of color in the reverse direction.
Yep. And that's very true. Yeah.
[01:19:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. Very cool.
Another comment here from David Mascara. Greg. The beauty of Nikon is the classic old Nikon lens, which I'll use time to time on new digitals.
It's my 200 AIs lens is 4 1/2 inches. 4 1/2 inches. It is inches long, 135 millimeter, 105, 85. All are around 3 1/2 to 4 inches long. So it's still quite compact.
Big by Fuji lens, standard, but still quite compact.
And David says that if you carry a newer zoom lens, you are just asking for trouble.
So David photographs street scenes and street portraiture, candid street portraiture, on the streets of San Francisco in the Bay Area. And he shoots in film. He's got quite an impressive Nikon collection of cameras. And if you want to see some of David's work, you can jump back into some of our Monday evening episodes of the Camera Life podcast where we have our your images section where a lot of these amazing people that are appearing in the chat today submit images every single week.
So make sure you take a look at that. And if you want to be involved in our your images section on a Monday evening random photography show, you can send the images to Camera Life podcast. No. What is it? Cameralifeuckystraps.com God, I hope I got that right.
Let me just double check that for everybody. Otherwise the images will be going nowhere.
Camera Life.
No, that's not it.
Now I can't find it. Thomas yeah, I know. Sorry folks. It is the camera
[email protected] you can send in your image, send in one image or a second if you want to do a comparison between two different edits or before and after perhaps and send it into that email address along with a short story of your experience taking that photo and some of your core camera settings like your exposure triangle, where was it at? And shoot that through and we'll bring it up on a Monday night while I have everyone actually just heads up. This coming Monday night we have a special edition of the Random Photography show still kicking off at 7:30pm Australian Eastern Standard Time.
But on this occasion we have Matt Crummons, Nick Fletcher and CJ from the Beef Op Australia team are joining us for a Beef Up 2026 podcast special extravaganza. We're not necessarily calling that. I'm just throwing words out there to make it seem more important that than it may be may be considered. But yeah, join us Monday night we're going to talk a little bit about bfop, the past, the present and what to expect. Hopefully we'll get some teasers and some insight out of Matt, Nick and C.J. about what sort of shenanigans they've got planned for this coming bfop. And as Philip Johnson pointed out to me this morning, it is only 50 days away, so no pressure to anyone feeling the pinch.
Now Thomas, you mentioned earlier that you do drink coffee. I think that's a core staple for any. Let me just get rid of this comment from David.
A core staple for any street photographer is Melbourne coffee. And of course Melbourne is renowned for amazing coffee. Do you have a favorite coffee spot in town and are you prepared to share it with people?
[01:22:59] Speaker A: Oh yeah, more than happy to. There's quite a few I go to, but one of my favorites is I think it's on Exhibition street in Par, not far from Parliament Station, called Black Velvet and they do really good coffee.
[01:23:16] Speaker B: Oh yeah, Black Velvet because I'm always in town now and I'm always looking for new coffee spots.
Where else? What other recommendations have you got?
[01:23:31] Speaker A: There's another little one I go to. I can't remember the name of it, but this one's down on Flinter Sleigh not far from Center Place and it's sort of on the left side when you walk down and it is always chalk block.
Yeah, it's not far from the little TAFE that they've got there.
[01:23:51] Speaker B: Oh yeah, yeah. What's that Victoria University.
I think it is that TAFE maybe.
[01:23:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought. I think it might have been part of Box Hill tape years ago.
[01:24:03] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a blast from the past.
[01:24:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:24:07] Speaker B: Okay. Well, I'll certainly have a look at Black Velvet next time I'm in town.
[01:24:11] Speaker A: Maybe coffee beans as well.
[01:24:14] Speaker B: Oh, that sold. Absolutely. So maybe when we catch up for a street walk together, you can take me there and we'll. We'll check it out. For me. My favorite coffee spot in the city is a place called Captains of Industry.
I've been going there, gosh, since I first began doing digital photography again. So what was that, like 2014?
And it's actually located above Digi Direct, which is on the corner of Elizabeth and.
Is it Little Lonsdale?
[01:24:46] Speaker A: No.
[01:24:46] Speaker B: Yeah, Little Burke. You're right. You're spot on.
So there's a Digi Direct on the corner there, and above it is this cafe called Captains of Industry. To get to Captains of Industry, you have to walk around to the laneway behind Digi Direct, and there's this little door with a little sign and some rickety old stairs, and I highly recommend it. It's an amazing, amazing cafe experience. They do great coffee. They also do booze, they do toasties.
But it's also just a beautiful environment to hang out in. There's something very charming about it, so I always recommend that.
Couple more comments here. I just want to finish off.
Who's this? This is Phil Thompson said, I just googled W class and first run on the 21st of December, 1923. That makes them over 100 years old.
The first.
[01:25:35] Speaker A: Wow.
[01:25:36] Speaker B: I don't know if there's any of those left.
Yeah, that is crazy.
Is it? They used to call them rattlers, or maybe they still do. Is. Is that right? Is that the term they sometimes use for those old trends? Because they were really loud and rattly, weren't they?
[01:25:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I think they were. Like you would.
I think they don't do it with the ones that they've restored, but I used to remember riding on them when I was a kid because they were definitely around in service. And you would stop at the traffic lights and you would sort of hear the motor make like a ch. Chuckled sound.
[01:26:08] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah.
Yeah.
[01:26:12] Speaker A: Maybe that's where they got their name.
[01:26:14] Speaker B: Maybe. Yeah. And just the noise of the. The sound that the rolling stock, the wheels and the axles make at each of those little junction, those little breaks in the tram line where they, you know, they've obviously welded two pieces together to create continuous Tram line. And I remember, and maybe they've gotten better at assembling these things, but it used to go. When you used to go on long journeys, you would just hear that clunky, continuously, every few seconds, you know, and. And the trams today. We've just released a new class of tram recently. Do you know much about that one?
[01:26:45] Speaker A: Yeah, that one.
That one's called the G Class tram.
[01:26:49] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:26:50] Speaker A: I sort of haven't been doing too much with it, but I have been able to get a couple photos of it already and it was basically at the right place, right time, sort of moment.
[01:27:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's.
[01:27:02] Speaker A: Yeah, I even got a really cool. I really got a cool night photo of it probably about a month or two ago now.
It was literally parked at the last stop on Elizabeth street and I thought, oh, I've got to get a quick photo. So I was sort of trying to get photos while I was at the stop, but it was really hard and I just wasn't really happy. And then it started to depart. So I managed to get a really good photo of it as it was departing. And it wasn't going to too fast, it was actually traveling quite slow. So I was able to achieve a reasonable good shutter speed where I was able to get it nice and sharp.
[01:27:34] Speaker B: Yeah, great. Oh, very cool.
Other questions? That was. Thanks for that info, Phil. Really appreciate it.
Here we are again. It was the same here in Geelong. Now Bay City Plaza is in that building on Brougham Street.
I think he might have. When we're talking about depots, transport depots, Are you still doing images that day from David Mascara? I'm not sure what that's in relation to, David, if you can provide a little bit of clarity on that question, that'd be great. And Rodney Nicholson, who has probably been around since 1923, does remember that they. Yes, they were called the rattlers. And of course, Rodney is not that old because that would be almost impossible.
Very conscious of time.
And I want to. I want to. Before we finish up, I want to talk once more about NF awareness and, you know, maybe give some people some places to go and research that. But let's. Let's first wrap up talking about your photography.
What's on the horizon for you in terms of taking your street and your tram photography, your Melbourne photography.
What's on the horizon? What do you see as being the next big challenge for you to take your craft to the next level?
[01:28:57] Speaker A: Well, I suppose what I want to do now is I want to do more of the street side of photography as well. Do my tram photography as well and sort of make me see Melbourne in a completely different way. Sort of see how the light looks on the subject that you photograph and sort of look at scenes very differently that I haven't looked at before and sort of get out of that comfort zone and sort of take it to a next level. Which will also help me become a better photographer in the lead up to it as well.
[01:29:27] Speaker B: Absolutely.
Yeah. No, I think that's really important. Absolutely.
And you mentioned earlier that, you know, maybe one day you'd love to see your tram images in some form of book. Yeah. How much have you thought about that? Have you done research into what that, what that takes to make that happen or do you not think that you're there yet?
[01:29:52] Speaker A: I haven't done a lot of, lot of research into it. I'd sort of. I think when I was photographing the trans. More so last year I was. When I was starting to look at the images after I've edited them, I started to realize that these need to be in a book because they're just too good. Sitting on a hard drive doing nothing.
[01:30:10] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Yeah, we, we all, we all feel that way more so than ever, I think. You know, back in the film day, you had no choice. If you wanted to know what your images turned out, you had to develop them. You had to at least make a contact sheet or at least take a look at the, at the negatives on a light box.
And we were often compelled to print because that was the only process we knew to see our images.
But these days it's far too easy to have your images disappear like you said, onto a hard drive or worse. Maybe, maybe not. Is appear as postage stamp size representations of your art on a phone screen as people doom scroll, you know, and we've here on the camera life, we've been really, really pushing the let's print as much as we can kind of concept. But you know, even printing can be quite prohibitive when it comes to the cost.
You know, any. You can of course go to Officeworks or Big W and, and print out some four by sixes, maybe even some a little bit bigger. But to get truly good, impressive prints is quite an expensive undertaking.
And I don't know how people who regularly hold exhibitions where they print, frame, print, mount, frame their works and display them not knowing whether the work will sell.
That must be such a huge gamble sometimes for people, especially the first time you do an exhibition, you know, do you ever print your images? Have you ever had a Chance to go and get a bunch of prints done.
[01:31:39] Speaker A: Yeah, well, what I actually do, I actually print my photos on the normal four by six sizes and then I'll stick them on hard card and sell them as greeting cards.
[01:31:51] Speaker B: Oh, okay.
[01:31:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And it sort of goes through phases where they sell well and then it sort of goes quiet for a. A while.
[01:31:58] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:31:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:31:59] Speaker B: But does it pick up around sort of.
[01:32:01] Speaker A: People love it.
[01:32:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you sell those from. From a site or a store or how, how do you get. How do people get aware of these?
[01:32:09] Speaker A: I sell them through word of mouth. I did try and do a market two years ago, but it sort of just didn't take off very well.
[01:32:19] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:32:20] Speaker A: And it's just one of those gambles that you take.
[01:32:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it is.
Markets can be hit and miss and often it depends on the season, too, whether it's a particularly tourist heavy season in Melbourne or where the market is. Rodney, who made the comment about the rattlers, he still to this day will frame up images or sell his calendars. He'll set up a table outside of the local supermarket or, or, you know, or at a market. And he still sees value in that, which I think is amazing because for a lot of us, that, that was our first chance to get our images seen, was to print them and, you know, put them on display or offer to sell them. And I think it's really impressive that you're creating your own kind of, you know, cards, greeting cards, postcards out of your images. Have you ever thought about approaching, you know, like, visit Victoria or city of Melbourne to see if you can push that into some sort of a, you know, a supported project? Is that something you think you could do?
[01:33:26] Speaker A: It's something I haven't really thought about in the past, but it has also been a dream of mine to have my photos displayed in Melbourne in an exhibition.
[01:33:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. Okay.
And do you think you're there for that yet or do you think you still have work to do?
[01:33:43] Speaker A: I think with some of the images that I have taken probably in the last 12 months, I sort of feel some of them are definitely ready.
[01:33:50] Speaker B: Yep, yep.
[01:33:52] Speaker A: Like sometimes when you take a certain photo, you sort of know that's the photo that would look great in an exhibition.
[01:33:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And more often than not, it's those photos that pop out at you from the. Sometimes you know it, as soon as you take it, you know, you're frightened, you think, oh, God, this is perfect, you know, and you take that shot and other times it's when you review it on your on your camera screen, you go, oh, actually, yeah, no, that. That's something.
[01:34:14] Speaker A: Well, sometimes when I've taken a photo, I'll be like, yep, that's my calendar photo for the next one. Sometimes I'll know. Or sometimes surprises happen.
And because sometimes you think, oh, man, I don't know how this calendar is going to look because you haven't been, like, satisfied with the photos you've taken. And if you sort of just let Faith look after you, sometimes it can work out better.
[01:34:37] Speaker B: That's very true. Yeah, Indeed.
Very much so.
Before we wrap out a conversation about your photography and we'll just touch briefly again on NF awareness, because I want that to be a lasting impression for people. What, you know, what would be some of the advice you'd give someone who was just starting out on the streets of Melbourne as a photographer?
Maybe they don't even call themselves a street photographer yet. They just like what they see and they're out there. What would be your best advice for someone who's just starting out?
[01:35:07] Speaker A: I suppose my advice would be, is, you know, if you've got a creative idea, give it a go. You know, it doesn't matter if you stuff up, you know, you just learn from your mistakes. And it's always good to try new things because that's where. That's where the fun side of it comes in.
You know, if you see something that appears to you and you think would make a good photo, you know, absolutely, go for it. Don't listen to what other people say, or you shouldn't do this or you shouldn't do that. If something. If a passion tells you to do something, go for it.
[01:35:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's solid advice. Yeah, most definitely. And often, you know, your greatest surprises as a visual creative come from breaking your own rules and trying things that you think maybe previously thought, that's not really my style.
But I certainly agree that there's a lot to learn from that. And I think every, every genre of photography, no matter what it is that you tackle, has an influence on any other genre that you attempt to shoot. Because, you know, at the end of the day, you're training your eye, you're training your muscle memory to work that camera effortlessly, and you're training your eye to see the light and compose compelling images.
The genre, obviously it can change that sometimes, but the core basics, core principles still remain, don't they?
[01:36:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. And sometimes we are about to photograph a moment, you don't have time to think about your settings or the composition. You sort of got to quickly photograph the moment because two seconds later it could be too late or you miss it. And I've definitely been in that in the past where I think, oh, that'll make a great photo. And if you think about it too long, you sort of miss your opportunity.
[01:36:44] Speaker B: Opportunity, yeah. Oh, yeah, completely. And you know, street photography is a fairly fast paced venture because often you're moving, your subjects are moving, you've got moving traffic in the background. You've got to be constantly altering your camera settings, you know, and with the people that I take on workshops in Melbourne, I say to them, you know, whenever you're idle at home or at work, have your camera on your desk or by your side all the time. If you're watching telly, just have it in your hands, you know, and practice taking photos in different lighting conditions just from the comfort of your couch, you know, really cement that muscle memory on how to, how to use that camera no matter what's going on.
And yeah, I think it works. I think it helps a lot for people.
All right, before we wrap up for today, Thomas, let's, let's let people know. Where can people find out more information about NF and learn more about that?
[01:37:47] Speaker A: Well, they can go directly on the Children's Chimney Foundation Australia website where all the information about the conditions on there.
[01:37:57] Speaker B: Let me just bring that up. Share this one instead.
This is the site.
[01:38:05] Speaker A: Yeah. The page that you've opened up is, Is my story, but that's.
[01:38:08] Speaker B: Oh, there you are.
[01:38:09] Speaker A: My website. Yes.
[01:38:11] Speaker B: Yep. And folks will drop these links in the show notes later on when it gets uploaded to YouTube. So on this page in particular, it's got your story and your involvement and yeah, a little bit about, you know, where this began for you, the awareness that you, when you became aware of it, you know, how it's impacted your family and that sort of stuff. But the actual site for anyone playing along at home looks like that advocacy and support for all impacted by nf. They do take donations. So if anyone wants to contribute to this particular cause, it's all incredibly legitimate and there's a lot of information on this site.
The other one that I found, Thomas, I think this is the NF Awareness Month website.
[01:39:02] Speaker A: Yes,
[01:39:06] Speaker B: yes, this one here. And it has listed activities that's coming up and what's on in support of NF awareness. And here's the Balti Bridge lineup that you talked about earlier and more about shining a light on nf and there's information.
[01:39:24] Speaker A: The Balti Bridge, actually my photo as well.
[01:39:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yep, that's Amazing. And there's Flinders Street Station lit up. Did Flinders Street Station not light up this year? Is that what you indicated earlier?
[01:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah. They used to do a lot of light up for. For charities, but they recently changed their policies and now they want to sort of start charging and it gets. It's just too expensive and sort of out of the budget.
[01:39:50] Speaker B: Yeah, that's disappointing.
[01:39:53] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
[01:39:54] Speaker B: Yep. Sorry, folks, I realized I was on the wrong tab. This is. This is Thomas's photo of the Balti Bridge for NF Awareness Day, which is amazing.
Absolutely beautiful. And yeah, I love all the light stars off all those lights. I've never seen it. I've never seen it photographed from necessarily from that angle either.
Certainly not at night. So well done.
[01:40:16] Speaker A: It actually looks. It actually looks very different looking at it up close, just how you would normally see it from a distance when it's lit up.
[01:40:23] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, that's amazing.
Okay, so there are those two sites there.
Guys go and check it out. It is to raise awareness for neurofibromato. Neurofibromatosis.
How'd I do that? Time. Is that all right?
[01:40:38] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty good.
[01:40:39] Speaker B: Yeah, nailed it.
[01:40:40] Speaker A: Good, good.
[01:40:41] Speaker B: It's a tricky word to say, I gotta tell you, but yeah. Folks, please head there if you're keen to learn more about this condition that affects a decent number of people. It is a rare condition, but there's still a lot of people out there that are living day to day with it. And raising awareness for this sort of stuff is how I believe how we become a tighter knit community is about building awareness, building tolerance, building support, all those sorts of things.
[01:41:10] Speaker A: And on the NF Awareness Month website, it's got all the lists that the landmarks lit up around Australia too.
[01:41:16] Speaker B: Yeah, I was just gonna jump on that. Way to go learn more.
Shine a light.
214 locations were lit up for 2026 and there's a whole bunch of photos in here about that. And then here's all the locations Australia wide. So you can go into Victoria and you can see what's happening in Melbourne, what's happening in Bendigo and so forth. Geelong, Malvern, right out through Inter Regional Victoria. So please check that out.
A couple of final questions for you. Let me just take this page down so we can see one another better. There we go.
We've got your Instagram accounts there and they'll go in the show notes as well.
A couple of questions we always like to ask at the end of every interview from our guests. The first question that I like to ask is you know, if there was. If there was someone that you wanted to recommend to sit in your seat and talk about their photographic journey, their insights, their inspirations, their challenges, just as you've done today. You know, is there a photographer that you think has an interesting story worth hearing?
[01:42:25] Speaker A: I haven't really. I haven't really paid attention to on my Instagram because there's. There's so many photographers that I know and follow that I think are fantastic photographers, and I. I even get inspirations off them, and that's what sort of pushes me to go out and take more photos as well.
[01:42:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
Big none come to. None come to mind straight away.
[01:42:50] Speaker A: There's a street photographer I know that I fellow.
Sorry to grab.
[01:42:58] Speaker B: Don't be sorry.
[01:42:59] Speaker A: Can't remember his name.
Top of my head.
There we go.
There's another photographer on face. I'm sorry, Instagram. And he does have a Facebook page as well. His name's called AJ.
[01:43:23] Speaker B: AJ Yep.
[01:43:25] Speaker A: So, yeah, so his Instagram is a.j.w I, l, k O.
He does a lot of drone photography as well.
[01:43:38] Speaker B: Yep. Okay.
Yeah, I've been seeing some.
I saw on Instagram the other day, and I wonder how they did it, whether they got permission.
People flying drones up over Melbourne on foggy days where all the buildings are just peeking through the blanket of fog. They're amazing to watch.
[01:43:57] Speaker A: And there's another drone photographer, and she's. Her drone photography is just spectacular. I think her name's Nicole.
[01:44:05] Speaker B: Yep.
All right, well, if you find those. Those accounts, shoot them through to me and we'll. We'll have a look at those folks and.
And see if we can reach out and get them a spot on the Camera Life podcast. And then, of course, the very last question that we typically ask. Well, Justin usually asks this, but, you know, he couldn't be bothered showing up today. But if the end of the world was coming and there was a zombie apocalypse and you're, you know, you're a photographer, you're a street photographer. You need to get out there and document the end of the world, the end of civilization as we know it. What camera? One camera and one lens. Could be a camera you have now, a camera you've had in the past, or a dream camera that you would love to own.
What would that camera and lens combo be to document the end of the world?
[01:44:53] Speaker A: Well, if the world was about to end, I would go and buy the Sony A7 II and pretty much just put my 70 to 200 on and pretty much capture all the moments before before the end moment.
[01:45:08] Speaker B: Yep. And why would you go with the A7 II over a newer, newer model?
[01:45:15] Speaker A: Well, I suppose because it would be the end of the world.
I want to experience, experience the camera body because it's a mate. I've heard so many good things about
[01:45:23] Speaker B: the Sony A7 II, so it's a dream option.
Nice, Nice. Very cool.
[01:45:31] Speaker A: All right. And that's going to explore other technologies as well.
[01:45:35] Speaker B: Yeah, true. And that 70 to 200 is multi purpose. It can give you some distance between you and the horde that are, yes. You know, staggering towards you. And in an extreme case, you could use it almost like a baseball bat because it is a solid lens. So well picked. Very good.
Look, Thomas, that is all we have time for today. We'll wrap it up and let you get back to your day. I know that I'm feeling quite inspired just from talking to you.
You know, it's interesting, as a street photographer, I often have Melbourne trams in my shots or in the background for context as to where we are when I'm taking the photo. But I never really considered them a main character, the hero, you know, of the frame. And I think your work, both with your street work, especially your nighttime stuff, but also your train photography, is incredibly inspirational. And I think what you're doing is you're creating almost like a permanent archive, an evergreen archive of Melbourne's tram network. You know, it's incredibly vital to.
It's a critical piece of infrastructure for Melbourne. So many people rely on it to get about, on their daily lives, to work, to school, you know, to see family, to visit friends and just to travel across our city.
[01:46:52] Speaker A: And I think it's even, I think it's even Melbourne's trams that have even. Why it's made Melbourne have so many titles of the most livable cities.
[01:47:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I think it's a huge part in that.
I think so, because it's not just a tourist network, it's, you know, it's for everyday Victorians to get about and we rely on it and, you know, for the most part it works. It doesn't always work, you know, but that's been public transport for Melbourne's whole history. We still don't have a way to get to the airport fast, so, you know, that itself is enough.
But look, on behalf of myself and obviously Justin, if he was here, and the Camera Life team, thank you so much for your time today. It's been truly inspirational to hear your story, to learn more about NF and to hopefully raise a little bit of awareness with the people that will see this podcast or listen to this podcast in the future. So thank you so much once again for your time and let's make a date and we'll catch up and hunt some light on the streets of Melbourne together.
[01:47:53] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much for happening on and yeah, that sounds fantastic. Would love to.
[01:47:58] Speaker B: Very good, very good. All right, well folks, you heard it here. We're heading off to shoot some street photography in the near future. And of course I will show those images to you folks on our Monday night show. Not this coming Monday though, because we have our Beef Up 2026 special in which Matt Crummons, Nick Fletcher and CJ Clarissa will be joining us to talk about BFOP. It's 10 years this year. It's 50 days away and it's the 10th anniversary of BFOP and we'll be there both as lucky straps and as the Camera Live podcast. And anyone that's heading to bfop, we certainly look forward to catching up with you and yeah, enjoying the most of that incredible, incredible festival that takes place every year in Bright.
We'll leave it there. I'll just say goodbye to some folks. Normally Justin likes to play some music, but I'm not going to mess with those controls because I get it wrong every single time. So I might just read some final comments, then we'll say our final farewells. So sit tight, Thomas, while I do so where was the last comment? David Mascara. Rodney, Rodney said yes, it was the Geelong tram depot. Do you know. Sorry, not Rodney, Phil Thompson. Sorry, Phil. Do you know, Phil, that I forgot that Geelong ever had trams until just now?
You know, there's been lots of little pockets of trams around Australia and obviously Melbourne's been most prolific with it. But. Yeah, but places like, you know, Bendigo has a tramway and Geelong used to is incredible.
David Mascara says you guys are doing a special Beef Up, a Beef up show you said this week. Curious if you're still doing showing your images.
We're not sure. I'm sorry to say we. Justin's been quite busy. We haven't had a chance to finalize the plans.
If we've got time, we might go through some and we'll have Matt and Nick and CJ there to talk to them, which could be a lot of fun. But if not, we will certainly let you know as soon as possible.
But so sit tight on that one.
Rodney was talking about markets when we, when we were talking about, you know, looking at doing markets. It's a lot of work but Rodney said I did my first market in 1982. It was very lucrative back then. The 90s were awesome and a lot harder now with iPhones and digital technology. That is very true.
Philip Johnson, thank you so much for your comments and your time today. Philip. Thanks, Greg. Special thanks, Thomas.
And Rodney says keep up the great work, Thomas and Greg.
Phil Thompson's Thanks, Greg and Thomas. A very interesting show until Monday night. Goodbye, everybody. And I will echo that sentiment. Thank you to everyone that's tuned in today. Don't forget this is the Camera Live podcast. We do this twice a week. If you're new here, give us a like. It helps a lot. And think about subscribing.
Subscribe, get your photography friends to subscribe. And yeah, we do this twice a week and we'd love to have you on board. But on that note, thank you once again, Thomas. Safe travels.
[01:50:57] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Thanks everyone.
[01:50:58] Speaker B: Walking? Yeah, and we will. We'll certainly catch up soon. Alrighty.
[01:51:04] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[01:51:05] Speaker B: All right, thanks, guys, everyone. Take care and we will see you on Monday night. All right. Bye. Bye.
[01:51:15] Speaker A: Oh,
