EP91 Why Shoot Film in 2025? The Random Photography Show

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Is it. [00:00:11] Speaker B: Funky? [00:00:15] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Well, good evening, everybody. It was worth the wait. Good evening, everybody and welcome to the Camera Life podcast. We've got a super special show for you tonight. This is the Analog Photography show. We are discussing with a panel of amazing photographers, Australian photographers. We are discussing why shoot film in the digital age. But before we get into that, just a reminder that this is the Camera Life podcast. It is still the random photography show. We've still got lots of random goodness coming up. But it is the 23rd of June and this is episode 91 on the march to 100 episodes. I like to have goals. Do you like to have goals, Justin? [00:01:03] Speaker B: I love goals. We like achieving ours too. We're rolling towards 100. We're getting new subscribers every day, which is fun. [00:01:11] Speaker A: Yep. Speaking of which, if you are new to the channel and you're joining us for the first time, either live or down the track, please make sure you give us a like. It helps us out with the algore rhythms and make sure you subscribe. Tickle the bell, get notified when we do shows just like this. But tonight we are talking about film photography in the world of, of a digital age. And, and we thought, well, you know, Justin and I have got some ideas and opinions, but you guys listen to us all the time. So we thought we'd get some special people in who have either shot film in the past or still shoot film or didn't shoot film in the past and now shoot film. It's a whole, whole mixed bag of letter sleeves we've got in there. So joining us tonight, we have. Oh, do you want to go through the who at the chat first, Justin? [00:02:03] Speaker B: Let me just at least bring up my special graphic for it. Oh, people in the chat. People in the chat. Okay, yeah, it's going crazy. RXA Photography. Is there a price for being first? There is not. Philip Johnson. Good evening. Rodney Nicholson. Hi, everybody. Hey, Rodney. Great show. Great show the other day with Rodney. It was pretty wild. Nev Clark Photography. Evening, peeps. Philip Johnson is also saying good, good day to the chat. That's what we like to see. Evening. Paul Lolo and Bruce Moyle. As always, Ian Thompson. Everyone's here. [00:02:41] Speaker A: Hey, guys. Welcome. And if you are new to the show and you're in the. You're you, you're at home or you're at work or wherever you may be and you're watching or listening live, drop us a line. In the chat. We're all about getting you guys involved. Let us know who you are, where you're from what you're shooting. Let's go to who Am I? [00:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah, let me bring it up. Nev. Clark just said he loves the graphics. It's a day. [00:03:04] Speaker A: Well, I think it's the. The word analog is in that goodies. That Goodies font. Remember the goodies? Who? Joel? You wouldn't remember the goodies. Neither would Lucinda. The other gray beards would. [00:03:18] Speaker C: I remember the goodies? [00:03:20] Speaker A: Greg, you were watching the reruns. All right, let's jump into who Am I? Who wants to kick off first? Lucinda, who are you? [00:03:31] Speaker D: God, you threw me under the bus there. I am a. I'm a music and concert photographer based in Geelong. Yeah. [00:03:40] Speaker A: Cool. And you shoot film at the moment? [00:03:43] Speaker D: Yes, yes, shooting a lot of portrait stuff. I have shot live gigs on film over the years as well. I started with my dad's Pentax K1000 and then, yeah, progressed through to studying and then doing a lot of work on different formats of film. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Very nice. We've. We've heard a lot about the, the Pentax K K1000s recently. Haven't we had a lot of guests that have been shooting with those? [00:04:10] Speaker B: Very many, yes, Very, very many. [00:04:13] Speaker A: Jason Lau, good to see you again. We only. It feels like it was only yesterday you and I were having a drink and a nibble at a photography event, a Fujifilm event, I have to say. Jason Lau, who are you? [00:04:26] Speaker E: I am a commercial lifestyle photographer. Been shooting for about 15 years or so. The. The whole photography thing. Probably more like 20 something years. I did my education in pre. Pre digital age, so that's been quite a fun thing. I used to work at Ted's camera stores in the early 2000s, so that was a really fun time having that transition from film to digital. And now I do what I do. [00:05:00] Speaker A: Nice. Well, look, it's good to have you back on the show as always. Now you no longer shoot film, you're purely a digital boy now, aren't you? [00:05:09] Speaker E: Pretty much, yes. I have shot film for myself here and there, but yeah, all my work is digital now. [00:05:15] Speaker A: We'll also have to dive in later whether Instax and Polaroid counts. I'm pretty sure it does, but anyway, we are also joined tonight by Joel. Joel, so good to have you back. [00:05:26] Speaker F: Thanks for having me. [00:05:27] Speaker A: What have you been up to? Who are you? [00:05:31] Speaker F: So, I, I've been running my own wedding photography business since 2014 and over the last year I've just converted it to strictly shooting only analog, no digital at all. I've always been passionate about film and It's. I've sort of brought it in and out of my career a little bit with ebbs and flows. But yeah, I just sort of bit the bullet and thought it. Let's make it all film. It's what I've wanted to do forever. I've always been attracted to it. I started on the Pentax K1000 as well and yeah, just fell in love with the process and that's me now. And I've been doing the wedding photography stuff for 10 years, but I'm really trying to push my own personal stuff and just really become like a street photographer. I guess there's like air quotes. [00:06:22] Speaker A: No, no, no, you go ahead. A man after my own heart. Speaking of street photography, we're also joined by Brent Lukey. G' day, mate. Welcome back. Sorry that I nearly forgot you and didn't include you in the show. Such a professional outfit. Let me just tell you, everyone, great. [00:06:39] Speaker C: To have you back in the middle of the night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Sorry, mate, who are you? Tell us, tell us all. [00:06:48] Speaker C: I've been a photographer for about 20 years. I started off as a wedding photographer, Joel. Shooting on film in the early 2000s for maybe five, seven years, something like that. Shifted to digital. Have a digital practice now. I have a studio portrait practice and a. And I have a street photography practice that does pretty well in terms of bringing in a little bit of money also. [00:07:18] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [00:07:20] Speaker A: Oh, I need to pick your brains on that. I like that that you've got a street photography practice. And of course we are joined together. [00:07:28] Speaker B: Dental practice. What. What's a street photography practice? Do people come in to get. How does it work? Anyway? We'll talk about that later. [00:07:35] Speaker A: We'll get to it. We'll get to it. And of course, we were joined tonight by Justin. He's the boss, he pays, he keeps the lights and the Internet running, so he's got to be here. G' day, mate. Long time no see. And caught up with you about 12 hours ago. [00:07:47] Speaker B: It's been days. [00:07:49] Speaker A: It has been days. [00:07:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:51] Speaker A: I spent the weekend in Bendigo, home of Lucky Straps headquarters and where Justin, Yelena and Jim all reside. So we, Justin and Yelena and Sasha and I got to catch up, which was lovely. [00:08:04] Speaker B: It was nice. [00:08:05] Speaker A: It was a nice weekend. Yeah. We did smartsy things. We ate lots of great food. [00:08:10] Speaker B: Did you take many photos? [00:08:12] Speaker A: I took most of my photos with my X70. Yeah. But I didn't take a lot, just bits and pieces here and there. [00:08:20] Speaker B: But you had the fancy XE5. [00:08:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I know, but when I went through it, it was only, the only photos on it were the ones you took of me. [00:08:28] Speaker B: That's funny. [00:08:29] Speaker A: Anyway, that goes back to Fujifilm tomorrow. It is a very cool camera. If anyone watching along wants to know more about the XC5, check out some of our more recent Monday night episodes. And we also did a live reaction video to the Fuji X Summit in Shanghai last week. So that was pretty cool. Lots of fun. Let's talk film now. First and foremost, I just want to thank Lucinda, Joel, Jason and Brent for joining us tonight. We really appreciate it. Obviously you've all been past guests on the camera life and we thank you for that contribution. And tonight we thought we'd rope you all back in to be involved in our very first panel podcast to talk about film. Film is enjoying yet another renaissance. [00:09:19] Speaker B: Of. [00:09:19] Speaker A: A sort I think. You know, there's a, there's a lot going on. We see the likes of pentax releasing the 17. Was that last year? Late last year? I think it was just before befop they dropped that half frame film camera. More recently Fujifilm have been pushing the film like qualities of the more recent digital cameras. So the X half which is replicating a 35mm half frame camera. When they released the GFX100RF, they talked about how you can choose old school aspect ratios from film days for larger format and medium format aspect ratios. So there's, there's a real surge again in people being more aware about film, curious about film, wanting to experiment with film. And we've even just seen this week alone two brands, one being Leica, obviously a very famous brand and the other being a brand called Lucky Funny that have both just announced new film stock that they're developing. 35 mil film stock. Leicas is a monochrome. And the lucky, the Chinese lucky 35 mil film will be a color, I think it's a color slide anyway, so there's still interest in the game. And so what we wanted to do tonight is get everyone together, people that have experience or have had experience with film photography with analog as well as digital and talk about is film still relevant today? You know, when we interviewed each of you, each of our guests in the past, we talked about early days, what you started on. And I think I want to start perhaps just, just to get a little perspective from Jason who whose youthful looks actually hide his considerable age, that the Jason, you were there at the, at the, you know, you, you had one foot on each side of the border when film came, when digital came along can you just give us a quick recap about what that was like at the time? [00:11:28] Speaker E: Well, actually I, I actually began my photography career as a, strictly as a film photographer because digital didn't exist yet. So probably my, my first five years of shooting weddings was all on film because that's what film photography was and that's what all photography was. I finished studying in 1998 and I remember we, I got my hands on the first digital slr, which was the Kodak DSLR in the Nikon body. I think it was like a one megapixel camera and it was this, this marvel. It was a marvel and a disappointment at the same time because obviously the technology wasn't quite there. But the fact that I really need to stress this, it felt like magic to press the button and then this photo appears not as a physical thing. And back then that, it was a. Quite a, quite a strange sensation because like we all shot film. And the thing I love about film is it exists as a physical product. You know, when the second you load a film in, that's what your image is recorded on. And it felt weird to sort of see the first digital camera recorded on a disc. And it, you know, we, we scanned and things like that. But yeah, just to have something sort of bypass the whole, I mean, you know, the whole process of like dropping your film off, getting it developed, get, getting it, you know, digitized or whatever, like it just bypassed all that. It felt almost like cheating. But yeah, and what, what I mean by disappointing is like it actually was nowhere near as good as film when it first started. I started working at Ted's camera stores in around 2000 and the first digital cameras we were playing with were the little plastic Kodak DC cameras. They probably worked for like 10 shots before the battery ran out. And you know, like there were so many issues. But the interesting thing was every new model that came out felt like light years ahead of the previous ones. And yeah, and people were very experimental. You know, the form factor was all up for grabs. You know, the Nikon had the cool pics, had the little twisty bodies. The Sony's looks literally felt like they came from the future. And you know, they, they had like, they could see in the dark and things like that. And yeah, there was a real race. You know, like often customers would come in and go, should I buy a digital film? Because that was actually the question all throughout the 2000 to about 2010. Digital or film? Digital versus film. Every article was all about digital versus film. And the, the answer wasn't straightforward. It was. Well, it depends. If you don't mind your photos being a bit low resolution, they don't need to enlarge it. Go for digital. It's convenient. But if you want a quality shoot film. And at that time, film scanners were actually starting to improve in quality. Probably one of the things I remember most as a film photographer, though, was the person who's printing my photos was the most important person on the chain. Because outside of me creating the photos, whether I dropped it off at one level or the other made a massive difference. And, you know, I would be like, can you make sure that person is printing my photos today? Not this person. Because even the person sitting behind the machine was met. Were making decisions about how warm, you know, what kind of color cast your photos would have. They were interpreting your photos. And that, you know, that was. Was a really big deal then too. So. Yeah, so there was a real battle in the early 2000s. [00:15:07] Speaker A: Cool. Well, thanks for setting that scene. I think it's the point that you made around that every new release felt like a huge leap. You know, I don't know that we see that so much anymore. [00:15:22] Speaker E: No. [00:15:23] Speaker A: And we're gonna. We're gonna jump to. Go on. Sorry. [00:15:26] Speaker E: I'll just say. Yeah, the leap was absolutely. Just because we were still finding out what was working or not, you know, and. Yeah, even just the invention of, like, lithium batteries was still coming at that time. And, like, that was the biggest problem. We couldn't even make the camera work for a full day. [00:15:47] Speaker A: Yeah, true. [00:15:48] Speaker E: Yeah. And then a 1 gigabyte micro drive, which is basically the compact flash. A 1 gig card. [00:15:58] Speaker A: I remember picking up Sony. They're Sony. Those proprietary. Those longer for the cyber shots. The early cyber shots. The memory and I had. I think we had one that was our biggest one was 64 meg. [00:16:10] Speaker E: Yep, yep. [00:16:13] Speaker A: You know, that was some time ago. And today, you know, we're looking at cameras that. And storage media and that are just so remarkable compared to those early ones. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Thank you for setting that scene, Justin. Sorry. I just realized I've jumped ahead because I got excited. [00:16:34] Speaker B: We can roll in whatever direction. [00:16:36] Speaker A: But I think Justin's point does make a good segue. Sorry, Jason's point does make a good segue to talk about the news. [00:16:43] Speaker B: Well, we might as well talk about these film stocks that come out that you mentioned, because you guys may or may not have seen him. I don't know if you have. [00:16:55] Speaker A: This might be what. What. What turns Jason around. [00:17:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Let me Share one for you. Has anyone heard about the new films that got released this week? [00:17:09] Speaker F: Yeah. [00:17:09] Speaker B: You heard about the Leica one? Yeah. Has anyone shot with. With China Lucky film before? [00:17:16] Speaker F: No. [00:17:19] Speaker B: So they've, they've released a new, the long awaited new color film which is, I think it's not out yet but it's coming or something. So they've released like they've released this sample, sample color chart. So you can see how it. [00:17:34] Speaker D: We love a color chart. [00:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah, we do love a color chart but wow, what a choice of photo to use. [00:17:42] Speaker F: Yeah. [00:17:43] Speaker A: So China Luck is being made by Reflex Lab film which is spelled Ref lx and Reflex Lab is a. They've been in business since 21. They're saying that they make and sell photographic film and camera accessories. And we launched our first product. They made a tungsten and a. And a daylight film back in 22. So this is their latest entry. [00:18:12] Speaker B: I love in on this. In this article down the bottom it says that this highly anticipated new color, a new C41 color negative film has been a long time coming. Earlier this year, possible distributors began fighting amongst themselves and spreading misinformation about the new film. It was a bizarre situation, scandalous. Like wow. Obviously it's crazy. And then yeah, the bigger, the bigger one, I guess. Leica announces Monoman 50 black and white. [00:18:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:44] Speaker B: What do we, what do we think? [00:18:46] Speaker C: Is it made in Germany? [00:18:48] Speaker B: Oh, I don't know. [00:18:50] Speaker A: Is anything. [00:18:52] Speaker C: Aren't the cameras right in Germany? I don't know. [00:18:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm not sure anymore. [00:18:56] Speaker B: The cameras are. [00:18:58] Speaker A: I'm sure they are. [00:19:00] Speaker C: I thought they were. [00:19:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Nothing, nothing at the moment. Brent, very good question though. Very good question. [00:19:09] Speaker E: It's an interesting decision to go for an ISO 50 film. [00:19:12] Speaker F: Yeah, it's pretty low. [00:19:15] Speaker D: Yeah. Not useful for me. [00:19:19] Speaker B: It says well suited for faster lenses in daylight conditions. So obviously you want to buy a knocked or you know, something really expensive to use. [00:19:30] Speaker F: Yeah, we've all got that money. [00:19:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I've got a spare lying around somewhere, I'm sure. But it is an interesting move. I mean and it, it raises a question that I want to talk about with all of you guys a bit later about, you know, about film photography and film stock and things like that. But for the time being. Yeah, it's interesting. It is interesting. Like I used to make film. Yeah. Years ago. I don't remember. [00:20:02] Speaker C: I've never heard of it before neither. [00:20:05] Speaker A: I thought they did. I thought they put out a film. [00:20:10] Speaker E: I probably took the AGRA films. [00:20:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:17] Speaker B: I assume they wouldn't be Making this film either. Like it would be. [00:20:22] Speaker F: Yeah, it'd have to be something really. [00:20:24] Speaker B: White label or whatever. Yeah, yeah. [00:20:28] Speaker F: Cinema film or something. I don't know. [00:20:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It does say here announced its first 35 millimeter film. [00:20:35] Speaker A: Okay. [00:20:35] Speaker B: So it's definitely the first 35. And I can't imagine they would have made anything else. [00:20:40] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:40] Speaker B: They're kind of a 35 mil company. [00:20:43] Speaker A: Yep. [00:20:45] Speaker B: Interesting. Do you want to fly through a couple of other quick articles? [00:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about the OM5. [00:20:53] Speaker B: That's what I was going to say because I want to see what. What everyone thinks of the color of this camera. [00:21:03] Speaker A: It's interesting. When I first saw the photos, I thought it was like that sort of bronzy gold. [00:21:09] Speaker D: Yeah. Is it gold? [00:21:11] Speaker B: No, it's like it. Yeah. Like a beige. It's supposed to be like a desert. [00:21:14] Speaker D: Like khaki. [00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:21:17] Speaker B: So what do we. What are we. What are we thinking? Thumbs up, thumbs down. Oh, no, it's unanimous. It's unanimous. [00:21:30] Speaker E: If they went with like some camo grip, maybe that would really suck. Yeah, Push. Push that concept. [00:21:36] Speaker B: Go full safari. [00:21:37] Speaker E: Yeah. 100. [00:21:38] Speaker D: I think. I think you've got to go like hard with that colorway. If you're gonna. [00:21:42] Speaker A: If you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it. Bling it up. [00:21:45] Speaker F: Because you don't know, like for adventure yet. Or if it's for like beige mums with wooden toys and stuff. [00:21:51] Speaker E: No. [00:21:51] Speaker A: So. But it's for beige bums. Look. It's crossing three colorways. The problem with the color they chose is that it makes it look more plastic than anything. [00:22:01] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:22:01] Speaker A: Like it makes it look more toy like it does to me. [00:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:04] Speaker F: Just stay black. [00:22:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:06] Speaker C: It might be for people that like to wear a. Like a. Like a safari vest one. [00:22:15] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:22:16] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. It's not one of those. He wore it to be flop. [00:22:24] Speaker B: The chat's come alive. The chat's come alive with this one. Paul says it looks like like the 80s, like an old shelf stereo unit. [00:22:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:34] Speaker B: Rodney Nicholson says that would go nice with a green lucky strap. That's true. 100. And a couple of comments on the. Hang on, let me pull this down. A couple of comments on the Leica film from XY Lim. Like a monopan is actually repackaged. Another. Another film brand called Adox. The film is made in Germany by Adox. How do you know that? So are all these guys. I mean, he's next level. He's digging deep. [00:23:10] Speaker A: Yeah, he digs deep. [00:23:16] Speaker E: Has anyone used The Ilford film. Ilford doesn't release a color film. Or the Phoenix, their vintage film. [00:23:26] Speaker A: Oh, really? [00:23:28] Speaker F: No. Yeah. [00:23:30] Speaker A: Not sure. [00:23:31] Speaker C: Hey, I want to hear what does. [00:23:34] Speaker A: What. [00:23:34] Speaker C: Joel, what do you use as film stock if you're shooting a wedding these days? [00:23:38] Speaker A: Good question. [00:23:39] Speaker F: Great question. Three, pretty much three different ones. It's portrait four, portrait eight, and HP5. Ilford pretty much can do every. Everything just on those. [00:23:52] Speaker C: So can you just roll me through what those films are? So you said. [00:23:56] Speaker E: What did you say? [00:23:57] Speaker F: Portrait 4, Portrait 400, Kodak Portrait 400. [00:24:01] Speaker C: So they call it Portrait 4 now? [00:24:04] Speaker F: Yeah, yeah. Portrait 400, Portrait 800, and Ilford HP5. Yeah. [00:24:10] Speaker C: So you're using the HP5 as your black and white, right? [00:24:13] Speaker F: Yeah. [00:24:14] Speaker C: No, yeah. And the other two are your color stock, and you have to use the two because you've got to have your different sense, different ISOs, right? [00:24:21] Speaker F: Yep. [00:24:22] Speaker C: So three cameras. [00:24:26] Speaker F: Six at least. [00:24:29] Speaker C: On a. On a job. [00:24:30] Speaker F: Yeah. Yep. [00:24:32] Speaker B: So all loaded up. All loaded up with film. Different. [00:24:37] Speaker F: Yeah. I don't know. We going there? Are we staying on the. [00:24:41] Speaker A: Yeah, whatever. Just go there. [00:24:43] Speaker B: We go where we go. [00:24:44] Speaker F: I think one of the coolest things about film and the film cameras especially, and lenses is that, like, they all have their own unique look. So I think, like, having a certain film stock and a certain camera can give you a completely different result, even if you put that same film cap stock in a different camera. So I've just fallen in love with certain aesthetics and certain, like, lens characteristics, and I've sort of married them well, amongst those sort of three film stocks. And I also have my partner to come shoot with me, and, um, so she'll have two cat, two or three cameras, and I'll have two or three cameras, and we sort of just like, swap back and forth. And at least that way, like, you know, if something crazy is happening at a wedding where you need to capture it, if this rolls out, you got something here to go to. So it's sort of just like having that back up just in case, and then you change roles when you have that freedom, I think. [00:25:39] Speaker C: Oh, sorry, Greg. [00:25:40] Speaker A: No, no, you go on, Brent. [00:25:41] Speaker C: Are you changing lenses on those six cameras, or you. Is each camera set up as it's set up? And that's what it is as a setup. [00:25:48] Speaker F: I. I'm. I've never been one to change lenses. I kind of hate doing it. I'll just, like. I just never use any zooms. Just like. I just get used to, you know, associating a. Like a lens, a frame line with A camera. So I know that if I go here and I pick up this particular, like a Nikon F3, I've got a 50 on it and I can just already, like, it helps me work quicker rather than being like, oh, what's on that? Oh, cool. And work it. I just like being familiar knowing that that camera has that lens on it. And it just helps me be much more efficient, I think. [00:26:22] Speaker C: And so, Joel, question. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Just a quick question for you. Sorry, Brent for Joel. So you like to marry up your lens with a particular camera with a particular film stock? [00:26:34] Speaker F: Yeah, a lot of the time the film stocks won't vary too much. Like, for example, I've got a contacts G1 behind me, and most of the time that has a portrait 400 in it, most of the time. But I know that if I go to a wedding and it's particularly overcast and it's like getting towards dusk and I'm going to lose light quicker, I might put portrait 800 if I think color is necessary. Or if it's overcast and like getting dark, I might just load it up with black and white and push it couple of stops. So I think it just depends on the day. But like, most the time, like, if I'm walking into, like a good light situation, just like normal good light, I've just got like, basics. It's like portrait 400 goes here, portrait 800 goes here, black and white goes there. And I just sort of know that I've got certain stocks, but they will fluctuate throughout the day. But genuinely, generally I have got some ballpark, you know, if I can put portrait 400 in any camera, going to put it in the G1 because the 45 mil Carl Zeiss lens is like, epic. So I think you just have like. I've got some guidelines, but they're loose at the same time. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, nice. And Lucinda, what about you? [00:27:45] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, I'm sort of similar film stocks. So I'm Portra 400, Portra 800 for portraiture stuff. And sometimes I'll shoot portrait 800 and push it to 1600 for live if there's enough light. And then Ilford Delta 3200. Nice and grainy. But I. So I have a. I don't have it on my desk. It's behind me on the shelf. But I have a Mamea RB67. So instead of switching the film stocks, you just flip the backs so I have all of those loaded, and then I can switch halfway through the roll, which is like, so good and so Helpful for me. [00:28:29] Speaker A: So you have. You have the backs. How many backs do you have for a gig if you are going to shoot from? 4. [00:28:34] Speaker F: Wow. [00:28:37] Speaker D: It came with 2, 2 or 3 and I think I bought another one. But yeah, so it's really helpful when I'm. Because I will sometimes just only shoot a half roll and I'm like, oh, now I don't have the right stock in the right camera. And so it's really good for me for shooting like consistently to have that rotating back so that I can flip them in and out. [00:28:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:00] Speaker C: Lucinda, you're just using the one body, the Mamiya. [00:29:03] Speaker D: Yeah, not so much a gigs. It's too heavy. It's meant to be in a studio, which I. I am moving into a studio so I will use it more. But I also use like I've got. Got my little. I took inspiration from Rodney the other day with his show and tell. I've got this little like Canon AF35, which is a little point and shoot. I bought it for $2 at an op shop and left it on my shelf for like years and then realized it was like this viral sensation. And so I actually picked it up and tried to work it and it worked. I actually broke the film door on it and ended up paying 200 to get it fixed because I loved it so much. Like, it's a 2.8 lens and it's like the autofocus is great, the flash is really great. Everything's really compact. So like to shoot gigs on that is like so EAS and just everything I shoot real, like I shoot Kodak Ultra max through that like 400. Like just really the cheapest stock I can find. And just. Yeah, if I want to just go to a gig and I'm going as a punter and just want to take some shots, I'd take that with me. [00:30:08] Speaker B: Cool. [00:30:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Nice. And finally, Brent, what. What is your. What is your film of choice? [00:30:15] Speaker C: I haven't used film since I shot weddings, you know. [00:30:18] Speaker A: Oh, that's true. Sorry. [00:30:19] Speaker C: But when I was shooting weddings, just interested in how Joel does it. Joel kind of brought up two things which I think is the reason to use film and the reason not to use film. The two big reasons. The first reason, the great reason to use film is that it's so individual and you can really kind of, you know, he uses all those different bodies, different lenses. You get all these kind of different tonal things. You get a little bit of magic that occurs through. Through the kind of different films you're using in the different cameras you're using in the different. Not so much the camera but more the lenses you're using however, apart. So that's the great thing. And the really annoying thing is the ISO issue. Like I remember being on weddings and I would be using Fuji npc, Fuji nph. Do you know what these films are? Anyone? These were the great films of the day. So Fuji NPH400 was the number one portrait, 35 mil portrait and 120 film that everyone used as an egg film. It had beautiful skin tones and more important than that it had massive latitude. So you didn't have to carry an 800 film around you just, you just change it to 800 or you change it to 200 or you'd shoot it at 400 depending on what the weather was like. I don't think there's that technology around with film anymore. Like films that have that much kind of ability to kind of stretch your ISO. But I'd be using that and then I'd be using black and white which would be the Fuji black and whites as well. So I would do it differently. Joel I had two cameras with color and one camera with black and white. All 35. And from memory I was using Tri X on the black and white. I had NPH and NPC in the colors or just MPH in the colors. And I would turn up with 15 roles and that would be considered way more than you'd need to shoot. [00:32:23] Speaker A: And what about you? Just. Jason, sorry I saw you nodding along there. Do you recall what, what films you preferred to shoot with? And, and does Brent's experience sound similar to yours? [00:32:35] Speaker E: I. In a lot of the films I shot, I honestly I, I shot a lot of Fuji Press 800 which I really enjoyed because I kind of liked the versatility of having an 800 that it was quite a fine grain 800. But like I said, probably my, my success was finding a good printer because it's, that's the most important thing is the person who's going to be interpreting your photos. So back, back when I was shooting weddings on film, I was delivering prints, not, not scanned files. And so that the prints were. And this editing with Prince was basically yes, yes, yes, yes, no. Yes, yes, yes, yes, no. And that was, that was, that was what editing meant back then. And I love shooting that. That's right. But yeah, I just, I shot a lot of Fuji. I had actually back when I shot with some Kodak portrait, there was actually a Kodak portrait VC and Kodak portrait nc. So they had a natural Color and a vivid color version. And I've shot a little bit with some Fuji Reala, which I quite like the colors, but I also struggled to make it match some of my other film because the colors were actually quite different. Yeah, but, yeah, like, I, I, I loved experimenting film. Actually, probably for me, one of the greatest films I've ever shot with probably existed for about a year, and that was the Agfa Ultra 100. It was, I was still working at Ted's back in those days, and it was like having Velvia on negative film. Like, it's a very saturated film, but it didn't look silly saturated. I, I used to, I shot that with my xpan, like to shoot like landscapes with it, and I got it scanned on a Narutsu machine and it just. The colors were phenomenal. And then Agfa went out of business like a year later, took the greatest film with it. So, yeah, I remember a lot of great films in my day. Actually. I love shooting HP5 also just because of that latitude. Like, you know, if you, if you actually had a really bright day, you could actually rate it at 200 and make it quite a nice fine grain film or, yeah, crank it up to 1600, 3200 and go, you know, embrace the grain and it will still do it. So that was quite a magical film for me. [00:34:57] Speaker D: Justin, are you having issues with your lights? [00:35:00] Speaker B: I have no idea what they're doing. They've taken over. [00:35:03] Speaker D: This is what happens when you install lights. [00:35:05] Speaker A: Such an attention. [00:35:08] Speaker B: I said I did not want to have anything controlled by an app or whatever, but then I succumbed to it because it was cheaper. [00:35:14] Speaker A: I was there. So we're at dinner. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Let's go. [00:35:19] Speaker A: Colors, Magical Mystery Tour. And Sash and Yelena are both hassling. Just poor Justin. They're saying, not wanting to use an app. [00:35:26] Speaker B: An app will be fine. Just. Just do it. I liked the. So the one that I had before, this was a very cheap one. And this was the remote. And it just has colored buttons on it. You just press each button and it does what you press. And it never changed because it was controlled by an old remote and now this, this stupid app. Anyway, let's get back to. [00:35:45] Speaker A: I reckon Yelena's got it on her phone, too. She's just fucking with you. Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:50] Speaker B: Oh, hang on. Look at this. [00:35:52] Speaker A: That's. [00:35:52] Speaker B: Sorry. The other remote must be connected to your office, too. Oh, there it is. I knew it. [00:36:01] Speaker D: Funny. [00:36:01] Speaker B: No. Well, at least now. Now I'm colorful. This is great. I'm just going to check in with the live chat because it's been going. So what I've figured out is, is X is all. We should have had him on the podcast. He's got. [00:36:13] Speaker A: He's too shy. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Too shy. Well, maybe. Maybe next time. He's got all the film knowledge about who's making what and who's discontinued what and what's still. Still around. Yeah, there's too too many comments to even read. So jump in the live chat if you're trying to find out what still is and isn't made and who makes it. Yeah, a few comments. So David Parker's jumped in. Good to see you, David. Nothing like dealing with the stress of 10, 12 and 36 frames. Also memories of loading a Leica under stress and then that never ending roll of film. Yeah, damn. Manila Martin. Fun podcast. Even though I don't shoot film. Well, maybe you will after this. That's the whole point. I've got some questions written down here for later. I want to ask the guys about sort of buying your first film camera, what to look out for traps for us newbies of, you know, when you're looking to buy something and then also choosing your first film and that kind of thing. What else we got in the chat? What else? There's a good comment here. Here we go from RXA Photography. When my stepfather finally made the move to digital, it took me years to convince him he could change the ISO with every shot if he wanted to. I'm sure there was a bit of a learning curve for people that have shot film their entire life and they bought a digital. They're like, well, I'm on 800. So yeah, I guess that's that. [00:37:41] Speaker C: Oh, Justin. I actually found it a different way around. I used to. I used to only want to sit on like 2200 or 400 all the time. I didn't want to move my ISO into 800 because I felt it was going to degrade the film. The shot too much. Yeah, especially on those. We're talking about those digital cameras that Jason would have bought too. In the mid-2000s, they basically only worked between 100 and 400. Yeah, there was just. And they really made for 200 to 400. That was it. Like once it went kind of beyond that, they just grained right, like they didn't grind. They just noise right out. And you had. [00:38:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:38:21] Speaker B: That color noise. That horrible sort of like. Yeah, whereas now we talk about noise, but it's, it's actually reasonably pleasing. Like up until very high isos. Now on digital cameras. Yeah. [00:38:31] Speaker C: Yep. [00:38:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:33] Speaker B: Although Joel's probably, like, pleasing. It's not. It's not grain. It's noise. [00:38:41] Speaker F: Gross. [00:38:43] Speaker B: Grossness. All right, let's. Should we dig deeper into. Into why shoot film? But before we do, I'm not going to read out any YouTube comments this week. We'll just save more for next week. You guys will have to come on to next week's show if you want to listen to those. But I did want to share a photo because it's an update from a previous. This is, like, from the mailbox. From the lucky mailbox. [00:39:08] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [00:39:08] Speaker B: I thought it was appropriate for today. So we got a photo from this guy when he first got his first strap, but he got a second strap, and he sent this photo in today because he's just subscribed to the podcast. I was like, this is very appropriate for today. So these are his. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm struggling with my zooms, but how cool are these cameras that he's put these straps on? [00:39:29] Speaker F: Is it like this F? Like the first one? The F? [00:39:32] Speaker B: I think so. Looks like a prototype. [00:39:34] Speaker A: Yeah, there's the F. Yeah, the. [00:39:36] Speaker B: The first F camera. [00:39:37] Speaker F: Yeah. [00:39:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I can't remember. I think he said it was an F3. [00:39:44] Speaker F: Is it an F3, F1 or F2? [00:39:49] Speaker B: Yeah, there was definitely one. There was one really old one in the. In the first email that he sent. It had the details of it, but I've lost that now. It's deep in my inbox somewhere. But how good? They look great. Yeah, yeah. [00:40:06] Speaker A: Very cool. [00:40:07] Speaker B: All right, should we talk more about why even bother shooting film in. In the digital age? Like, why. Oh, here we go. Hang on. XYZ onto it. It's an F1. Wow. A Nikon F and F2 from David Leporardi. So is that an F1 or is it just an F? Is it. Is an F. The F1. Like, that's just what it was called. Yeah. Okay. David says F2 motor drives always resemble a block of flats. [00:40:37] Speaker F: That's what I thought it was on the bottom. [00:40:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:40:41] Speaker B: That's not funny. [00:40:42] Speaker F: Motor drives on them. There's no way. [00:40:45] Speaker B: No way. Yeah. Rodney says bulletproof Rxa. Perfect. Perfect camera. Cameras for the zombie apocalypse you could kill. Yeah, they look solid. [00:40:56] Speaker A: Blunt force trauma. [00:40:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:40:59] Speaker A: Why. [00:40:59] Speaker B: Why bother? Why shoot film? Like, surely you can make digital files look exactly like film these days with editing, with. With presets. Joel. Surely. Surely. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:13] Speaker F: You're getting me to buy it, and I'm not gonna want it. [00:41:16] Speaker B: This is what I want. I want to know, I really want to know is, is there a. Could you. Could you be fooled by a digital file? If someone said, hey, I shot this on film, but it was actually on digital, you reckon someone could trick you? Is it depending on if. [00:41:32] Speaker F: If I was looking on a computer screen or a phone, probably most of the time I might not be able to tell the difference. If you printed it large and I went up really close, maybe, but. But like, it's. I don't think. I think it's maybe lesser about, like. I know. I think a lot of people get into shooting film because they love the aesthetic of it. And, you know, it has that, like, butteriness and that velvety, like, texture that goes throughout it that you. It isn't as easy to replicate on digital unless you know how to retouch, I think. But I think for me, it's more about the experience of taking the photo. And, like, that's what it is most important to me is, like, you know, we talked about it on the podcast I had with you guys as you asked me if I was digital curious. And the only, the only digital camera that would, like, really inspire me to pick up and shoot is that Leica without the screen on the back. Yeah. And it still gives you that, like, digital experience, like that film experience, but without the immediate feedback. I just find that, you know, with, you know, what is it? Like, I didn't even know what the word is for technology these days, but when you look through a viewfinder and it shows you exactly what the image is going to look like. What's that called? [00:42:49] Speaker A: Like a live view Mirrorless. Yeah. [00:42:52] Speaker F: Yeah, Live view mirrorless. It's just like, it really. I think, like, cameras are becoming so smart that it's making us dumber and we're relying on all these things to, like, pick up. You know, it's just easy to pick up a camera and put on auto and just take a photo and you focus on composition and that's pretty much it, which is cool. But I think being. Having to be really intentional with everything that you choose and knowing that, like, when I take one, it's going to cost me money, and I really want it to be, like, perfect, and I really need to be present because I can't just take and, and have a immediate feedback to go, oh, no, that's not right. Let me go again. You know, it's, it's. It's taking away that immediate feedback to help you just remain more present. Because, like, at the end of the day, I don't think we're paid to take photos. I think we're paid to pay attention. And illuminating the screen for me just takes away another distraction for me where I can actually just be. And I think that's like, what we're lacking is, you know, I do workshops like I did with you guys down in Beef up, and I'm doing this couple shoot and I get a couple to do something everyone shoots. And then the immediate thing they do is look to the back of the camera to see if they got the shot. And. And I'm looking at the couple being like, there is the cutest right now happening. And you guys are all missing it because you're just looking at this, like, you're making sure that there's like a feedback there and you know, to see if they got. If they can do it again. So I think, like, it's about eliminating a distraction for me and like, how I feel when I'm shooting film is. Is more beneficial to me than say, like, the outcome of the image. The outcome in the image is great because it's film and it all does it all for me. You know, you. You shoot portrait 400 and get it scanned through a frontier and like, get it done with a good lab, it's going to look good, you know, so that I can offload to people that know their. I just love how it feels for me while I'm shooting, personally. That's why I do it. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Good answer. If this was a game show, you would get points for that. I think it's not, though. [00:44:59] Speaker C: So I've got one thing to add, Joel, if I can. I think that looking at the back of the camera is something that people who don't work professionally do more than people who work professionally. [00:45:12] Speaker F: 100%. [00:45:13] Speaker C: I actually think most professional photographers don't check the camera straight away. They will shoot and they will know, like, instinctively know. If you're doing a wedding, you're not going to be. You've got to keep watching for the off moment so you don't just go, did I get the shock? Because you learn really quickly on a wedding that there are moments that are happening once the camera's been put down. And so you kind of. You're always alert to it. You know, you're alert to getting the photo you think you're gonna get. And then you're alert to kind of like getting the photo. That happens when that. When the couple thinks you've finished taking the photos. [00:45:46] Speaker F: Yeah, 100. [00:45:47] Speaker C: Or the group or whatever. Like, I remember taking group photos and there'd Be like, you know, 150 people in one of those kind of cheesy group photos, photos. I don't know if people do this anymore. And then you'd get a photo when the group started dispersing that would be way more interesting than the photo of the group. And I also, So I, I think you kind of get used to the idea of not checking the back of your camera when you're using, using digital. And I don't know about anyone else here, but I shoot digital exclusively and I try to shoot as least photos as I can possibly shoot because it's a pain in the ass to process them and to store them. Right. So I just want to know if I've got the one. I don't use a drive. I just go shoot like one click and then I think one click, maybe I need another click. But I think you get really used to working as a photographer where you want to get the image. You don't want to just like try to get the image and hope something's in there. You kind of, you get this, your sensitivity becomes very acute to getting the image you want to get and then moving on to the next one. [00:46:57] Speaker E: Do you? [00:46:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:58] Speaker C: Anyone else agree with that? [00:47:00] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I do. And I think, I think it's situational and it's also genre dependent because if you're shooting, if you're shooting sports and it's also, you know, it comes back to that question of who are we taking the photo for? If you're shooting a high speed sporting or motorsports, sometimes you do need that drive, that burst to be able to capture, you know, a succession of images. So you can pick the cream of the crop, the one where, you know, you could just see through the reflection to the driver or you know, you're photographing sports and you see the, you know, that sharpness in the eye in that fifth frame out of your 10 burst, I think there is a calling for it, you know, and then on the flip side of that is, you know, shooting straight where I try to take personally and you guys, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, but when I shoot street or more casual everyday photography, I try to have a film kind of mentality around it. I try to be more mindful. I take as few images as I can, like you said, and really focus on honing my senses and being really hyper vigilant and hyper aware about what it is I'm composing, who's about to walk into frame where the shaft of light is falling and finding that those compositional and the exposure elements and then taking a couple of shots, maybe two, and then walking off, you know. And so I think it's all about how you choose to approach your craft maybe as well, you know, if, if you work in a kind of, you know, with a mindset of, I've got a job to do, I've got to get it done, bang, I've got to go back and, you know, back up these images and then cull them later or give them to an assistant to Carl because I've got another job in, you know, in three suburbs away or, you know, then speed and efficiency are king as opposed to maybe more mindful approaches. [00:48:54] Speaker B: I think I definitely resonate with what Joel said in terms of. Because I do shoot sports and I, and I then I also do shoot other random stuff. I have to sort of switch from shooting crazy bursts and lots, taking lots of photos, to being more deliberate. But there's nothing more deliberate. I can be deliberate. Like when I was shooting JPEG only and posting them and stuff like that, I was a lot more deliberate with my digital photos. But there's nothing, like Joel said, like loading a roll of film that costs money into a camera that doesn't have a screen to really switch that on. For me, it takes it to the next level of consideration for your frame and you know what photos you're trying to make. Personally. [00:49:45] Speaker F: Yeah, I think also, like, I, I agree with that. And just like what you were saying before Brent, like, when I transitioned from digital to film, like, my photography career was like, I picked up a camera for six months and then six months later I had a wedding photography business. So I didn't really like, have time to sort of fall in love with like taking photos. It was just about having a digital camera at a wedding and just making sure I got everything. So the last 10 years I've gone to weddings with, you know, unlimited access to take as many photos, however many I need to get the photo. Because I wasn't a good photographer. I just was good at selling a business essentially. And then I sort of grew over time. But I think because those habits have been like, instilled for me for so long. [00:50:30] Speaker E: The. [00:50:31] Speaker F: When I implemented the film, like, I didn't the last couple of years of shooting digital, I was the same. I very rarely checked the back of the camera, but I think it was the slowing down component that I needed help with because I just had that flexibility and that freedom to go ham on it. And that's just. Was always my. It was just habitual for Me because it was like that for so long because I just had. I never learned it. I just did the business and was thrown into a eight hour day where you have to photograph 5 million things. And I had a 64 gig card, so I didn't have to think about it. So I just like brought that to like everything else that I shot in my life. Like if I ever photographed my son or like anything I loved, I was just like high speed autofocus, but just like, yeah, it's got to be in there somewhere, you know. And it was just like, that was just part of my process. But like then switching to film, I like because I would shoot the wedding seasons on digital and then winter, I'd pick up a film camera and photograph my personal stuff. And it like really like grounded me a lot and I felt really like more calm. I don't know, I definitely am undiagnosed adhd, but I felt like much more like mellow with it. Not less stimulation and less options. I had to like, be more mindful about the process. So I think like, that's maybe the part that I'm sort of appealed to as well is like, you know, like. And you know, being a. I don't know for me particularly like my particular film photography practice, like in this economy, it's difficult. So I'm really trying to be like really strict with what I shoot. So having that like, all right, every shot cost me like 2, $3, like make it count, you know, I like that, that like restriction on me a little bit because otherwise I probably would just go because I can, you know. Yeah, yeah, it's good going slow. That I like. It's quite nice. Yeah. [00:52:25] Speaker A: Let's hear from you. [00:52:26] Speaker D: I. I would also echo that sort of like, Greg, what you're saying about being intentional when you're going out and doing street photography, that. Going back to the original question, I'll just like wrap this all back around. [00:52:38] Speaker A: Someone has to. [00:52:40] Speaker D: So for me, for me, shooting film is the escape from what I normally shoot. And sometimes those things are the same. So sometimes I am still shooting music or I'm shooting portraits of musicians. But it is also that thing with Joel where it's like, it's like a meditative state. It's slowing down, it's going back to basics. It's. Do I know how to use my camera still? Because a lot of my cameras don't have internal light meters. I have to physically light meter a scene. I have to set everything manually. It takes me five minutes to like, especially with The Mamiya, you've got to pull out a dark slide and like, do all the things. There's about 15 different steps to take a photo. So for me it's to slow down and to be more intentional about what I'm doing. And that sometimes for me is like just going. I used to go and walk around Little Mallop street, which is a kind of a restauranty kind of area. It's kind of like a cool area in Geelong and it has a lot of little like back alleys with lots of straight art and stuff. And so before work, I used to go and just shoot a roll of film, like, and just go and get it processed just to like, try and like, hone my craft and like, just, just try and like, concentrate on composition and make sure that I am still seeing things like really intentionally rather than. Yeah, fast paced, like chaos. First three songs go. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's definitely that meditative, intentional thing for me. [00:54:09] Speaker A: Jason, I want to jump to you for a second. You know, you used to shoot filming and you've said that you still might shoot occasionally for personal stuff. Do you miss that? You know, we've talked about this intentional, almost meditative state of slowing down to make an image as opposed to just operating a camera. Do you miss that from the film days? [00:54:36] Speaker E: I, I miss a lot from the film days. I. Look, I, I have a lot of film cameras myself and I loved toy cameras, weird cameras, you know, like, I've got an Ilford sporty six six. I don't think anyone has even heard of one of those. Like, I've got some really weird stuff and I used to just love. It was like spending time with a different friend and you load a roll of film. Let's see what this camera does. And I actually really love those days of buying, picking, you know, to go to the Box Hill camera market and just go, oh, I want to try this little vintage AGFO camera and just go see what, see what it was like. And that I really missed because honestly, you can hand. I bought the, the Sony A7 RV recently. A phenomenal camera, but I don't think I ever, I've ever played with. I just kind of use it for work. It's. It's quite a different feeling than picking up some. An oddity. You know, sometimes the film camera is like a little bit of a time machine. You pick up this. You know, I'm a real nerd when it actually comes to old cameras like the, the old void lander with a plunger shutter button. It Just weird solutions for these things. I think I really, I really missed that part of it. But in terms of its influence on me, similar to, to Brent, like I don't shoot that much in terms of, I'm not, I, I realize that especially when I do fashion photography with another fashion photographer who's quite a bit younger and they're, they're like motor drive and there's this like machine gunning right next to me and I, I have this kind of like, if this shot isn't working in three shots, I'm going to change the pose. [00:56:22] Speaker C: Yeah, we're moving it. Yeah. [00:56:26] Speaker E: And, and yeah, so that's, that's kind of its biggest influence on me because. Yeah, same thing. I, I would count the frames and go, better make the shot work. And I think I lost it for a little bit and now I kind of go, it's come back to that realization. If I don't make this shot work, pressing the button the shutter more times isn't going to make it work. [00:56:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:46] Speaker E: And I think that that's a big valuable lesson from film photography. [00:56:51] Speaker C: Yeah, couldn't agree more. [00:56:53] Speaker A: That's a wonderful point. So in this day and age, obviously, you know, everyone has access to a camera now. It's, you know, we're carrying one 24 7. My partner Sash even sleeps while still scrolling tick tock. I don't know how she does it, but there's some sort of fine motor condition that's, it's just, it's just there. But we all, we all have a camera. What do you guys think are the barriers at the moment? I mean there's some obvious ones, but what I want to hear from you guys, what are the barriers for people to explore film photography to go analog? [00:57:31] Speaker D: Maybe the learning, the learning of it. Like if you don't know how to use manual settings, if you're picking up like an slr, you're not going to be able to sort of operate that. So we used to have a lot of education down here, but I don't think there is as much anymore for specifically analog processes. Even going into analog processes, like cyanotypes and stuff like that as well. Like there's, it's kind of like that dying art almost in, in education kind of practices. [00:58:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Jason, you're an educator too, do you. What are your thoughts on that statement? [00:58:20] Speaker E: I love. I actually taught darkroom for seven years and I thought I was able to teach 14 year olds how to operate a film SLR. And actually the thing that was most exciting was it really Made them realize the seriousness of their actions. And I really. Which I really like. I would say if you don't get this right, we only find out next week when you process the film. And they became great photographers. And actually when we hit VCE and we introduced digital, I tell, I'll warn them bareface. I said, your photography will get worse before it gets better because you'll think the camera is going to do it for you and it won't. [00:59:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:03] Speaker E: And you are still in charge of making that shot work. And then that would come back and go, yeah, all those photos were blurred. I just shot at night. I didn't really think about it then. Yeah, you're right, that, that totally didn't work. And I, I really love it as a learning tool because I mean, it's like I said, if you give someone a K1000, they've got three modes, you know, shutter, aperture and ISO. That, that, that's it. There's a little needle that moves up and down and it's the easiest way of helping someone understand that whether you're buying a, you know, K1000 or the latest and greatest Sony or whatever, they all still work exactly the same. And I love that. You know, actually speaking of analog photography, day one of, you know, when I used to teach high school, we made pinhole cameras and we've loaded it with photographic paper. And I said, if anyone explains photography to you, that makes it sound harder than light passing through a little hole onto a license and material they don't understand photography, there's no magical setting, there's only these settings. And once you. And for me, that's actually the magic of photography is we realize the rules stay the same no matter how great technology gets. And I think that's something that can be really picked up by someone using analog photography is the realizing that you can strip so much technology away and you can still make an amazing image. You know, if all you had was a 50 mil lens and, and a camera with a needle that moves up and down, you're still participating in photography. If you don't have that, you could make a little tin tin camera, you know, with a little hole through it. It's. You're still making images and you know, and I think that that stops people from trusting the camera and putting the trust back into the person. [01:00:48] Speaker A: Nice. [01:00:49] Speaker F: Yeah. [01:00:50] Speaker A: Justin, you want to jump into the chat and see if there's. [01:00:53] Speaker B: I mean, it's been quiet. It's been quiet and everyone's just been listening. Everyone's. I mean, David, David, Parker said he's still got his enlarges buried in the back shed. Beautiful old Leica 1C photo mat, a focal mat and a V35. Mrs. The dark room process but not hiding or shipping film in the field. Glad I lived through that. It seems that there does seem to be a very strong theme or like. [01:01:22] Speaker A: This. [01:01:22] Speaker B: There's a few exceptions to this rule, but there seems to be a lot of people that lived and worked hard through the film era that no longer shoot it, but have fond memories of it. Very common but a bit of like, nah, you know that just from everyone that we've had on the show, there's, there's a lot of people that are like, yeah, they were really good days, never again. And then there's like the new crop of people that are like, I started on digital and film is really fun and cool and I like learning about it and it's, I don't know, I know there are some people in between that we've had on the show but yeah, it definitely seems to be a little bit of a pattern that people like David and Brent and Jason are like, digital is pretty good, you know, works really well. [01:02:13] Speaker E: I actually had a friend recently asked me, oh, I've gotten getting into digital photography and her for her, she's a very talented shooter. For her the biggest obstacle was I don't know what camera to get. And there is a massive risk because no one's really making new film SLRs anymore. And you know, yes, you can get good ones but you don't know whether you're overpaying for a Nikon F5 which you may or may not need or you know, should I get a K1000? But if you get a K1000, you don't know if the seals are still good, you don't know if the shutter is still working. You grab a second hand lens, you don't know if there's oil on the aperture blades. You know, there's a lot of risks and I think you do need to know someone who can at least have look, look over and kind of go, yeah, I reckon this camera works because I mean you can get some cameras which have electronic shutters and then those, they don't make the right batteries for them anymore and that, that can throw off the exposure and things like that. So I think that's a, I, I, I, I like the fact that Pentax made the Pentax 17 because here's a new camera, you want to have a go at it, double your frames, get back into it. Actually when I, when I took over being a photography teacher at my old high school, I replaced all the Seagull casino cameras with older K1000 cameras because all the newer SLRs that they bought, the student film cameras were all broken, they were much made. So I actually went back and bought K1000 because I knew that they would still be functional. Yeah, but that's a really hard thing to get through. If you have never experienced a film camera before. What camera should you buy? That's a really tough one. [01:04:01] Speaker D: Has anyone heard of the flashback camera? [01:04:04] Speaker F: Oh, that's new, isn't it? [01:04:06] Speaker B: Like a. I have one. [01:04:09] Speaker F: Yeah. Okay. [01:04:09] Speaker D: And yeah, so it's a digital disposable camera. It doesn't have a screen on the back of it. It was a Kickstarter by an Australian guy and I got it like a couple maybe last year or the year before. I haven't tested it as much as I should have, but it's fun. Like it's not something I would shoot a wedding on. But they have different film stocks that you can pick from. You load that onto it digitally via an app, sorry Justin. And you shoot the roll and then you have to unload it onto your phone and then you can't access the photos for 48 hours. [01:04:47] Speaker A: Oh wow. [01:04:48] Speaker D: For these girls that are like taking them out to a nightclub and like because there's this big Reese resurgence of like taking little digital point and shoots out now again. So like for that purpose, because I used to do that when I was 18 or you'd go to an 18th and you would take a little digital camera and you take photos of each other and you put it on MySpace, you know. But yeah, so I'm showing my age. Yeah, but yeah, it's a cool sort of way to like have that experience but in digital form. [01:05:19] Speaker E: Form. [01:05:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like what Fuji've just done with the X half. It's both at the launch or not the launch, but a Fuji X half event in Melbourne last week. And it's that same concept. It's. You can put it into film camera mode. You can choose a 36, 54 or 72 roll exposure. It's half frame. You can create two half frame composites. So you get a full frame. Well not a full full frame but you know what I mean. And then yeah, you can't see the film camera mode images until you put it into the app and process and it creates a contact sheet on your phone and it's only then that you can actually see your images. You can't see them while you're shooting with the camera. And we've talked about this on the podcast a few times. I think Jason, Sorry Justin coined the term cosplay cameras. The, the digital cameras and we've seen them in the past. The digital cameras that are, you know, dressed up to be something, you know, that they're not. I did notice that Rolly, I think they announced, I think they crowdfunded or something. Rolly, their 35 mil film camera. Yeah it popped up in the, in the news and rumors this week again. So there are, there are companies out there do making effort. You know we talked about the Pentax 17 and, and obviously Leica have their, you know, their mortgage worthy film camera option. Why do you guys think the brands that used to make, you know, you built their fortune, their early fortune on film cameras. [01:07:01] Speaker B: A. [01:07:01] Speaker A: Do you think they'll ever release one? Will, will Canon, will Nikon or Fuji ever come out with an actual film camera? And why haven't they done it yet? You know we've seen several peaks and troughs in, in film in analog photography and but we haven't seen anything serious from the big brands. Do you think they'll ever go down that path? Joel? [01:07:24] Speaker F: I, I don't, I don't know. But I think there's a huge factor that like we need to take into consideration in terms of like if film will keep having this resurgence. And it's like how film stocks sort of progress like because you know, Fuji have gradually like dropped like all some of the coolest like film stocks and Kodak are slowly bringing back stuff with Ectochrome. But also film prices are just so expensive like for a roll of film like portrait 800 is like $35. You know, that's almost a dollar per frame without developing or scanning. You know. So it's like it turns in to be $2 a. $2 a frame essentially. And you know it's cool to have all these film camera options and like bring all this stuff back but also like people are going to look at the cost, the ongoing cost and you know, consider that. So you know, if there was more film stocks coming out and it became competitive and things started to drop, I think probably like things would probably ramp up. But I think yeah, the reality is, is that even a portrait, portrait 400 is like 30 or 30 or $3 a roll. So you know, it's like if you want half decent film stock you got to be, be prepared to spend like all color anyway, $30 and up and then black and white. You know, HP5 is probably the cheapest, but you know, it's also not the best. But there's Tmax and Tri X and XP2 which is epic too. Like there's all this really good stuff, but that's still up around $20 per roll. So then it's $40 a roll, you know. So I think the, if that sort of changed, I think maybe people would be more inclined to do it. But I think also because there are consequences and the consequences can be expensive in this, in this case like may, you know, not boom it as much as I would like to see it boomed. But you know. [01:09:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Justin, you're, you're a Canon fanboy. What do you think? Do you think the, the big C will ever. [01:09:29] Speaker B: No. [01:09:30] Speaker A: Drop a film camera on us? [01:09:31] Speaker B: Canon won't. I mean if, if, yeah, if Fujifilm won't, you know, like, or whatever. Canon aren't gonna waste. They might do like a retro camera, but I'll do digital. What I, what I'm interested with the Z and the. [01:09:47] Speaker A: Sorry, the F and the fc. [01:09:48] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And it is, it's a shame. Oh yeah, yeah. Go Brandon. [01:09:52] Speaker C: Might be a little bit controversial here. [01:09:54] Speaker B: Please, please, please. [01:09:57] Speaker C: Okay, what do I think? We don't. I think that those camera companies will respond to the market. I don't think they'll try to create a market, but I think they'll respond to a market. And if film got just like there's an interest in film, I kind of question whether there's a resurgence in film. But there's definitely a new interest in film. But if that was to gain a kind of mass appeal, I think that camera companies would respond. Some of the camera companies would respond to that. But I think this is like more con. The controversial part. I think the real interest for me and maybe the majority of people who really think film is interesting are not interested in 35 mil film. They're interested in 120 and large format. That's really the kind of, that's the beautiful, beautiful part of film photography. That's the real slow film photography. And I think 35 mil photography. And Joel, I'm not trying to be, I'm not trying. I can understand why you thought as a wedding photographer, but if I was a portrait photographer working on film, an art based photographer, I would be working on 120 and 8 x 10 large format or whatever. [01:11:10] Speaker F: Agreed. [01:11:11] Speaker C: Agree my way. Working, you know, or like Richard Leroy, the photographer in England who works with a camera obscura and just Puts a sheet of paper in the back of it, you know, get some unbelievable images of that. I think that's probably the future of film, or possibly even the present of film is the large format in the media format world. And I think we'll see cameras in that world and we probably already are, but I'm nowhere. [01:11:39] Speaker F: Well, you see brands like Cinestill and like Cinestill are coming out with 120 and 4x5 sheets, you know, of their 400D stock. So they're, they're tapping into that too. I think Cindy still and even Lomo are sort of coming in and doing weird too, which I love Lomo for that. [01:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah, they do, don't they? [01:11:57] Speaker F: Yeah. So I think like those quirkier companies are picking it up for sure. And I, I agree with you. You know, for sure you can build. [01:12:05] Speaker C: Your own cameras in that format as well. You know, that's not beyond anyone who's deeply interested in how photography works. It's not as complicated as people think. [01:12:17] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a good point because a few of our guests, we've had on, even just recently have talked about how they, you know, they have like these old large format film cameras that were, you know, used by the Royal Air Force to, you know, for ground surveillance and, and how they jerry rigged them with different lenses or they've, you know, they've created. Was it. Andrew Ravenko was talking about how he created a. What did he do? He changed the, the way that the shutter dropped. To time it. To determine. Sorry. To determine the shutter speed. [01:12:51] Speaker B: Justin. He, he made it so that he could change the shutter speed with different inserts and that he knew what the shutter speed would be by like building a. Yeah. Different sized slots that would slide through at a certain speed with gravity. And he figured out what the shutter speed of that would be. [01:13:13] Speaker A: Yeah, because he does computer science. And so he, he'd done this whole Beautiful, Beautiful Mind kind of, you know, telemetry to work out exactly what the shutter speed would be of this, this piece of cardboard falling in front of the, in front of the film. So you are right, Brent, but I guess that that itself would be a barrier to a lot of people. [01:13:38] Speaker C: More of a barrier than 35 miles. Like you can buy those Fuji. What are those, Fujis? [01:13:44] Speaker A: Oh, no, I was talking about making your own camera. [01:13:46] Speaker C: Oh, I'm making our camera. [01:13:47] Speaker A: Or you know, kind of putting something together yourself, I think, you know, that's, that's obviously a bit of a barrier for some people. [01:13:54] Speaker B: Can we, can we keep leaning into the, the new cameras thing because I like what Brent said. It's spot on. If there's money to be made, camera brands will, will, will jump in. But often the bigger ones will, will like, like Canon. They'll wait until they see someone else making a heap of money and they'll be like, oh, we better get in on this. They're not going to be the first people to kind of jump on that sort of stuff. I just want to read a couple of comments out and then I'm going to push that conversation harder. Exe says Rolly did produce that 35 AF last year. [01:14:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:27] Speaker B: Their camera. [01:14:29] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it just popped up in the news because people are starting to receive them. [01:14:34] Speaker B: Right. [01:14:35] Speaker A: So the promised product is finally shipping. Yeah. [01:14:39] Speaker B: David Parker says the greatest thing about film cameras was their shelf lives. They really did feel like they were a part of you old friends. And I definitely think that's not the case as much anymore with, with digital cameras. Jason says society is less and less inclined to accept delayed gratification. We collectively want everything now. Everything instantly. Shooting film is the, the antithesis of this. Which is good I think. Yeah, it's just expensive. Couple more. David leporardi large format 4x5 inch and 120 roll film produce outstanding results. These were my mainstays when shooting film. [01:15:24] Speaker C: And they still produce outstanding results. [01:15:26] Speaker F: Like yeah, yeah, it's hard to beat medium format film. Like it just gives something special to it for sure. [01:15:36] Speaker B: And then this is what I want to talk about from David Parker. Jeff Bridges, the actor brought back the wide Lux. So first of all, what do you guys think of the wide Lux thing? Is that. Is it cool or is it. Is it not cool? [01:15:53] Speaker F: It's cool man. It's weird. It's cool. You know any weirder the cooler, you know, for sure. You know, like the fact that the lens goes like this, you know, that's awesome. Leave it at that. [01:16:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:10] Speaker F: So he makes it cool too. [01:16:11] Speaker B: So I know. And then somehow he almost single handedly has made it cool again and now a company is bringing it back which it's. It's not happening yet. But it's coming. Someone's making essentially just remade which I think Jeff Bridges might even be in on that company. [01:16:30] Speaker A: Yeah, he's part of. Yeah, he's co funding it. I think he's sort of part of the, you know, the top tier stuff. So yeah, it is interesting. [01:16:39] Speaker B: Is that, is that one of the few like non. You know, because there has been a lot like the Rolly and then There's a lot of those kind of reloadable point and shoot cameras you can buy new for 300 or whatever they are. And then there's this wide lux coming. Like what other. Other than Leica's M6, what else is there? [01:17:02] Speaker A: Lomography Do a bunch, but they're mostly, they even make kits so you can make your own cable. They used to, I don't know if they still sell them. [01:17:09] Speaker B: What else? That's, that's decent quality and high end. Not that. Look, look, I'm talking like, you know, there are people that would spend two to $10,000 on film cameras, but there's none to buy unless you buy second hand. So is that just the way it's, is that it? Are we sort of where we're done with new film cameras? [01:17:34] Speaker E: I think people underestimate how hard it is to make a film camera again because the people who made them are retired. They, they literally don't have a school where they teach you how to make a film camera. So it's not as easy because obviously when you're in the, in the midst of it, you know, in the 70s, 80s, the whole, that was the only industry so everyone made it. There were molds and whatever, you know, to, to, to help produce these things. If you wanted a film camera, in my opinion, you won't like the price of it. If you wanted a good quality Nikon FM3 level of camera, brand new produce, the next complaint will be, I can't believe they're charging so much for this because I could pick up one of the old second hand ones for 500 bucks. Like it, it's not, it's a bit of a, a lost game because of that. Like people freaked when they found out that the Pentax 17 was, was it like 8, $900. But they're like, for a plastic camera, it's like, yeah. But they had to bring people out of retirement to work out how to make that camera. Like it's not an easy thing to do. [01:18:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:47] Speaker E: You know, like, because we have, I mean people don't realize that, you know. Well, I'm sure lots of people do realize that most digital camera DSLRs or mirrorless cameras, their sensors are only made by one or two companies. It's not like there's, everyone's making their own sensors. Yeah. So when you're wanting to make film, it's, it's a, it's, I would love to see it, but at the same time like it's, Yeah, I, I, I was actually thinking for myself. If I had to recommend a camera to someone, what would I recommend? Go play with a. Go play with a holga. It's like 100 bucks. Six. [01:19:24] Speaker A: Six. [01:19:25] Speaker E: And you will make a shot that won't look like anything that you can create with a. With a digital camera. And it literally makes the cheapest, clunkiest noise when you take the photo. You don't even. You know, your brain doesn't even register that you've taken a photo, but you just have to believe that the shutter opened and closed, something has been recorded, and go get it developed. See what happens. Yeah, magical experience. [01:19:48] Speaker D: It feels so like toy, like, because it is like a plastic toy camera. [01:19:52] Speaker A: Like, so with that in mind, quite. [01:19:55] Speaker E: Experience is. [01:19:57] Speaker A: Is. Are we just on a timeline now where we're just waiting for all the old film cameras to stop working and there to be no one who knows how to fix them anymore or no one wants to? Is that where we're heading? Are we heading to a. To a point where. Yeah, the game is up with electrical, for sure. [01:20:13] Speaker F: They're like, if you. Unless you're getting something that's completely mechanical and. But even then, I'm sure wear and tear eventually, you know, breaks down things, and there may not be parts, but, you know, if you're having essentially anything that's got an electrical component in it, like, I had an xpan for a while, and I had to sell it because I was scared of essentially just like, having ten grand to itself immediately. [01:20:39] Speaker E: So, yeah, like, expansion itself. [01:20:41] Speaker F: Yep. [01:20:43] Speaker E: It's not working. [01:20:44] Speaker F: It's just. [01:20:47] Speaker E: Hasselblad even said, oh, we don't fix those anymore. [01:20:50] Speaker B: Yeah, such a great camera. [01:20:53] Speaker F: And it's, like, super unique, and I feel I so in love with it, but I was just like, if that thing goes, like, I should just probably have my time with it and let it move on to someone else that can roll that dice. And I'll just use that money on something maybe a little bit more reliable. [01:21:09] Speaker A: Yeah, good call. Good call. [01:21:15] Speaker C: I'm talking about reliability. How. How is it for you, Joel, using film for, you know, so much work? How reliable are the cameras? [01:21:25] Speaker F: Like, extremely. I haven't had any issues yet, touch wood. But I, you know, most of the cameras that I have, like, the, you know, I've got two. Two manual, and the rest are electrical, you know, so nothing's sort of gone yet. So, you know, so far, in my experience, it's all been pretty good. [01:21:49] Speaker C: There's not much that can go wrong. [01:21:52] Speaker F: Not really, like, you know, like. Like what Jason was Saying before, every camera works the same. You know, the only thing that I'm really limited to, that I feel like I'm limited to, is that I can't change the ISO. [01:22:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:22:03] Speaker F: And that's really it. Like I just shoot a roll and then change it and then I keep shooting, you know, so it's just limiting myself on the ISO, that's pretty much the only restriction I feel. And you know, if it's black or white, a color. But you know, it's just the beauty of film. It's just is what it is. [01:22:18] Speaker E: Well, speaking of things going wrong, may I ask a question? [01:22:23] Speaker A: Sure, of course. [01:22:25] Speaker E: What's your biggest film disaster that's ever happened to you? Or at least a memorable one. Because I think I, I've made every mistake there is to make in the dark room, in camera, things like that. I'm interested in what you're like, oh no, I've just stuffed up kind of moment with film photography. [01:22:46] Speaker F: The, the biggest one would be I shot a wedding and I had the Hasselblad 500 centimeters at the time. And because that's got leaf shutter on the front and then the curtain at the back, every time you shoot you hear the curtain up and slam. So it just gives you that immediate feedback of like, cool, the photo's been taken. But I was shooting in Bathurst in winter and so cold that I think one of the small like leaf component, like it froze essentially and like then snapped. So I ended up shooting four rolls of medium format on that camera at a wedding and none of them turned out. So they just all came back white. And yeah, it was just. You know what, I think it's funny because ever since I've shifted my business all to film, I have this conversation with clients all the time. You know, it's like there is a chance that I could even make a basic error and literally not roll, like load a roll of film properly and shoot half a roll and open the back and it hasn't caught. You know that like that's a very real possibility. Like I'll do everything I can to not make that happen and I'll look after my gear. But it's the nature of the beast that you just can't tame it sometimes. And like, you know, the fuck ups are sometimes the most beautiful ones are the ones that you spent ages scripting don't even turn out, you know. And it's just like, I think that's why that risk reward ratio is like super enticing. And like, you know, when it turns out it turns out big, and when it up, it up big. But like, I don't know, it's just communicating with the. With my clients anyway. It's like, hey, you want film? Like, you know, it's. It's not a. You know, you got to roll the dice at some point. You know, you got to trust me, essentially, and I got to trust them that. That the process. [01:24:30] Speaker B: So. [01:24:30] Speaker F: Yeah, you know, it's just. It's just the nature of it, I think. [01:24:35] Speaker A: What about you, Lucinda? [01:24:38] Speaker D: I haven't had any, like, huge ones, like, not for client work. I always usually shooting digital as well as. As well as film. But I do remember I bought this, like, little tiny toy camera, very plastic, very hulga esque. It was 35 mil. I put a roll in just to like, test it. And when I took it out, it had like, shredded all the sprocket holes like the whole entire way. So I was like, right, let's not use that again. [01:25:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:06] Speaker C: And Brent, I remember shooting a wedding once, and straight after the ceremony, I. I went to change films, but I hadn't rolled it back. And so I opened it up, which. Which ordinarily what you would do is just close it and know that you'd probably only lost. [01:25:27] Speaker E: Yeah. [01:25:27] Speaker C: I don't know, maybe half a dozen shots, maybe. But what I actually did is I panicked and I pulled the film out. Oh, I wrecked the entire film. And you know, and. But I. What I can say is that no one knew because what I used to try and do and. And I guess you try to do this too, Joel, is like, when I was shooting weddings, I learned how to build kind of backups into everything. So I would sort of shoot photos knowing it wasn't the best photo sometimes, but it was like covering my ass in case something happened later. And I always have these redundancies in my mind, like, I'm going to take a photo now of this, because then if this. Something goes wrong, I've got that photo, even if it's not the one I really want. And I would be kind of. Even with film, I was still using like two or three cameras. So even though that might have been the camera with my wide lens that I fucked up, but I still had all the shots off the other camera with which whatever lens was on it. So the couple didn't even know, you know, because it was like, I've already got to cover some in another way. But if you're trying to be more like Joel, very cautious about which film you're using because you want it to Create a certain magic. You might just use the one camera with the one lens for like, a whole, like, really amazing moment that you're working on. You might not be shooting between two different bodies and understand. Lose it in that way. [01:26:57] Speaker F: Yeah, yeah. [01:26:58] Speaker A: And finally, Jason, what about you? What was your worst film up? [01:27:03] Speaker E: Oh, thankfully, again, in my professional work, I didn't have too many, except for, like, my very first one. I actually set the ISO of my Mets flash, the old manual flash, to the wrong ISO, and I just blew everything out. But a memorable sort of disaster was actually when I was shooting some photos at the Meredith Music Festival. And if anyone's been to the Meredith Music Festival, it's famously dusty. It's like. It's like a dust bowl, you know, in the middle of summer. And, yeah, I remember I was trying to do the right thing. I got home and I cleaned my camera. I thought, I've got my puffer out, got my brush out. Clean the outside. I thought, well, I may as well clean the inside. I was like, there's my film. [01:27:55] Speaker A: That'S in there. [01:27:56] Speaker B: Did you. Did you clean the film while you were in there? Blow it off. [01:28:00] Speaker E: And similar to bread, I panic when I panic. I just continued to stare at the film because I was like, a moment of dis. I should have just shut it. I was like, I'm still looking at it. I can't make my hands move. Like, I got, like, maybe I. I think I saved, like, six shots, all roll, because I just left for so long. [01:28:22] Speaker B: No, I've actually. I've actually got one, Greg. But it's not. It's not really. It's not the same because I've never shot film for consequence of anything. So it's. It's not really a up, but it's a bit weird. I had. So a few years ago, I bought a F100 and an F5 and I shot a bit with them, just playing around. Shot some stuff in Japan, and then they kind of ended up on the shelf in the lucky office. They've been around. I've lent them to people. But I knew there was a half roll in the F100 that I'd shot a few frames on. And then. Anyway, recently I was like, after we had John Human on from Lumina. Labs. Always get that backwards. I was like, all right, I need to shoot some film again. I'll load up the F100 and I'll also message Joel and be like, joel, I'm buying film camera. What should I get? So I did that too. Separate to this story. Anyway, shot some film, shot the rest of that role, then shot another role and then sent them off to John Humour and got my scans back a couple of weeks later. And the first six frames of that role, a semi naked girl that I've never seen before. [01:29:48] Speaker A: Wow. [01:29:51] Speaker B: You mean woman, Woman, woman. No idea who she is or who took those photos and haven't really asked around to figure out whose photos they are. [01:30:05] Speaker A: So you've got these images of someone. I don't know. [01:30:09] Speaker B: Yep. No idea. [01:30:12] Speaker A: It's kind of like. It's kind of a lame version of those amazing stories where people find their grandparents old camera and they get it all, you know, processed and scanned and they find all these amazing images from the war or, you know, from something. But for you it was just a naked woman. [01:30:27] Speaker B: Not, not naked. They were just like. They were creative, artsy photos that I must have lent the camera to something. I can't figure out who anyway, but I don't want to just like throw it out on social media and be like, hey, you just did. [01:30:41] Speaker A: True. [01:30:45] Speaker B: Yeah, good point. Anyway, if you're missing six photos. Actually, no, you'll have to. You'll have to prove that they're yours. If you want, email Bruce. Bruce says it wasn't me. Anyway. That was some good. Yeah, they were good, good stories. It makes me not want to shoot film for professional. That's for sure. Nev. I didn't shoot them. I didn't. Anyway, what else, what else are we going to talk about before we. Oh yeah, so we're. I want to. I want to hear from you guys what your favorite cameras are if you're still shooting film or what you used to shoot with. Sounds like it's always a K1000. Yeah, everyone's got one of them. But I guess. Yeah, before we do that and we kind of hinted at it before. Yeah. How do you buy your first film camera or second, you know, like when you're new into it. How do you buy it without potentially buying something that doesn't work or that has issues or that isn't right for what you think you want to do? How do you even know what might work for what you want to do? Or do you just have to pick something cheap and get started? Like how to. How do we do it? If you can't just message Joel directly and have a two hour back and forth about which camera you should buy? [01:32:05] Speaker F: It's funny, there should be a business. It's like, you know how there's. They have like drug testing at festivals. There should be like a website where you can send a listing to someone and get them to look at it. Worth it and what it would be good for. Because like we said, there's. There's so many different film cameras for different looks and different aesthetics that, you know, like, I don't know. I don't know how you pick these days. Like, I know a bit, so that. [01:32:29] Speaker D: Helps, but that's it, I think if you're. If you can go and see them in person. Like, again, I know a little bit about cameras and how to fix things and how to. How they work. But my biggest tip, if you can go and like, if you're vintage shopping, like, I used to do that a lot, like, go to op shops and that sort of stuff. Carry a little bag of batteries around with you of all different, like, types. They're not that expensive most of the time. You can look them up. Like, I have CR123s, I think they're called. And then like, the little watch batteries, and I've just got like, a little, like, collection of them. They're in a little pouch. And if I go vintage shopping with the intention of buying a camera or looking at cameras, I take that with me. I also shoot Polaroid, so I have like, the empty cartridges because the cartridge has the battery in it. And I will take that with me to check that it's, like, working. Because that's if. If stuff is working, if you put a battery in it, it's a good sign. And then depending on price, I then sort of like, am I willing to pay $50 for this? Potentially that doesn't work. But, like, I've tested it and the batteries are firing things and. [01:33:41] Speaker B: And then so if you test something, say it's not a Polaroid, but if you test something, say, is a K1000 and then literally, do you just buy it and then put a roll of film through it and get it developed? So then it costs you another 40, $50 just to see, just to sort of get an idea, is that that is literally it. Is that what you guys. [01:34:00] Speaker D: That's literally it. Yeah. The things I would look for is like. Yeah, things that you, like, want to avoid are like fungus in lenses. So anything that looks like mushrooms going in lenses is. Is bad. Like, I saw. I saw one the other week. It was like, literally a mushroom field just like growing in the glass. It was gross. What else? Clean. Like, clean inside. If you open it, like, open the back of it and check, because the seals, like, a lot of my 120 cameras I've like resealed because they just crumble and disintegrate over time. So if it's all kind of crumbly and fallen into the lens like it's likely that you're gonna, you're gonna have to take it to someone professional to get it cleaned and that's going to cost you another $200 to deal with. And then yeah, normally if I put the battery in, check if there's a light meter, if, if you change the shutter speeds or the aperture like does that dial move and then pushing the shutter and like seeing if the num. Like changing the shutter speeds and seeing if the, the shutter is longer or shorter. Like I, I don't know scientifically like. But like you can tell, you can listen to it and be like, okay, well that was longer than the last one or shorter than the last one. So the trying those things out. But that's if you can see it in person, which a lot of people don't have the luxury of doing either. [01:35:28] Speaker C: I would be looking at mechanical cameras from the 80s and 90s, not the, not the ones that were battery motor driven. So I'd be looking at like an FM2 from Nikon. Those beautif. There was beautiful Olympus cameras in that time as well. Minolta made great cameras like an X300, an entry level camera like the, the Pentax K1000. These were really straightforward mechanical cameras that were built really well. And I'd be looking at those and then I would be trying, I'd basically be looking, looking through the Japanese market and buying one secondhand from Japan companies. Those camera shops are really particular and you can, you'll be sure that you're quite sure that you get a camera that you might have to pay another hundred or two hundred dollars more for than you might in a secondhand kind of, you know, Facebook marketplace situation. But that camera is likely to work from a long time been beautifully refurbished. That's what I mean. [01:36:30] Speaker A: I think I talked about it last week, but I went into MAP camera in Shinjuku the first time I was in Tokyo and, and I, I was blown away by the quality of old cameras they had, you know, and they, it was a Canon floor and a Nikon floor and a Rico and you know, OM floor and. Or Olympus and everything was pristine. You know, they obviously service them, they clean them, they check them, they put them on the shelf and, and there's just hundreds of the same camera over and over. You know, you're spoiled for choice. So yeah, don't be afraid to look at, especially the Japanese market. [01:37:02] Speaker C: There's a couple of shops in Melbourne that do that too, you know. [01:37:07] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:37:10] Speaker B: I've got my. I've got my eye, my heart set on a Canon 1V. Definitely not what you were just recommending there, Brent. But I just really. I just really, really want one. I've got a 1N and it's. It didn't scratch my itch. [01:37:28] Speaker C: To use or just to collect. [01:37:30] Speaker B: No, to you to use, but to use just for film. Like, just for like swanning around with a couple of rolls of film. Not to use like a lot, you know, just to use a little bit. Because I've got the. I've got that really pretty 50mil 1.2 on it and it's just, it's just nice to shoot with and it's. It works. I can operate it just like I'm used, you know, I didn't have to learn a new camera system. It feels. I feel at home with it. So I can shoot the way that I would normally shoot with film, which is I guess kind of not the point. But I still like it. But yeah, it was, it was a lot cheaper than a 1V. It was like a quarter of the price for some reason. The one ends and the one Vs. Anyway, it's. Yeah, it's so hard to know. It's very risky if you can't see them in person and if you're not buying off a store that you trust it is. You sort of feel like anything could show up. Any other, Any other suggestions for first cameras or just like I feel like. [01:38:33] Speaker F: The, the best thing to also do is just jump on YouTube. Like so many people have done YouTube videos and about, you know, how to get started in film photography and what cameras to look out for if you. I every now and then like I have a bit of an itch and I want to get something new and I'll just look up best medium format or 6x6 cameras and it will give you a list of like 10 like really unique ones. And then you just go down that rabbit hole about researching certain cameras and what looks and how it works and watch like a. How. How to video on YouTube and see if like the, the process of using it is like good too. Because lot of the time you like early on I'd fall in love with you. Like, oh, I really want that camera and I get it and I start putting it into my workflow and I'm like, it's not fitting like the, the process of like Focusing in bellows or you know, using a waist level viewfinder or rangefinder versus you know, tlr. Like they're all sort of different sort of ways of shooting. So yeah, sort of just, you know, just do research and yeah, compare and. [01:39:35] Speaker A: I think the bit of advice I would give people too and because you know, I do, I do like to talk about community but I think if you are, if you get your first film camera and you're actually, you know, I'm actually quite into this, I think I could do something with this then go and join a camera club, one that has a lot of the bigger camera clubs have access to a dark room. It's becoming more rare. But if you can find a camera club that, where they, they have film photographers and they do have a dark room and then you can take your, your journey to that next step of actually understanding what goes into processing, developing, printing and enlarging prints. And often camera clubs are a great safe place to do that because you also have community around you, you have peers that you can get wisdom from. You have people that can support you. Some of them will actually have a technician that will work alongside you and support you and even, you know, other companies like we spoke last week with Rod, not Rodney, sorry, the week before. Oh my God, where has my brain gone? Lucinda across the hall from you. [01:40:45] Speaker D: Ah, water. [01:40:47] Speaker A: Craig Watson. Craig Watto Watson. You know, he, he will do one on one coaching with people on different aspects of photography. So it's also a good idea to find a mentor that can actually guide you through some of that, those early stages where you know, those of us that went through, you know, photography school or a photography course, we had someone educating us on every element of what we were doing and as we've discussed, that's becoming scarce. So find someone who still knows that and you know, and ask them to be your mentor. [01:41:21] Speaker B: A couple of good suggestions here from our good friend Jay Shanney. Olympus OM1 and Minolta SRTS were fully manual and built like 10 tanks. Check light seals and try the shutter speed at different setting settings like 1 second and then say a 500 and listen for the difference in the shutter to see whether it's, whether it's changing, whether it's working is good advice. Greg Carrick got his Canon P rangefinder from Japan. Beautiful condition. Did you, did you, did you go there to get it, Greg, or did you get it shipped over? Did you just like buy it sight unseen and get it shipped? Just to circle back on Brent, what Brent was saying earlier, David Dare Parker says Google Miroslav Ticci. Does anyone recognize that name? I googled it so you don't have to. [01:42:16] Speaker D: Thanks for doing the hard work, Justin. [01:42:19] Speaker B: I'm all over it. It's not easy being me. This guy was a photographer who, from the 60s until 1985, took thousands of surreptitious pictures of women in his hometown in the Czech Republic with cameras made out of old cans and rolls of cardboard. [01:42:42] Speaker F: Wow. [01:42:43] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [01:42:47] Speaker F: That'S cool. [01:42:48] Speaker B: And he's. [01:42:49] Speaker C: He's quite cool and uncle at the same time. [01:42:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:42:54] Speaker D: Is that who we're thinking took Justin's camera? [01:42:57] Speaker B: Maybe. Maybe. Sneaky devil, but yeah. So he literally just. He made his own cameras. See, that's not that hard. [01:43:08] Speaker C: There's people doing it now all over the place. It's not. Yeah, it's not uncommon. [01:43:13] Speaker A: And with 3D printing, a lot of people are going to that next level. Yeah. [01:43:18] Speaker B: Interesting. [01:43:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Actually, I think. I think someone last year brought out a camera that was a 3D print, and I think they shared the files. [01:43:24] Speaker F: I saw a video on YouTube of a guy walking around with. He printed 3D, printed an Xpan like, sort of camera, and it was like a third of the price and he just had to buy the lens. [01:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah, it was just awesome. Yeah. [01:43:46] Speaker B: Should we look at some of your cameras? Who's got cameras? [01:43:50] Speaker A: Yeah, let's talk toys. [01:43:51] Speaker D: I've got some. [01:43:53] Speaker A: What's the count? Because last time we spoke to you about three weeks ago, I think it was 100. [01:43:57] Speaker D: I haven't bought any since because, yeah, we. We're going to be on a budget. We're going to be on a budget. But, yeah, I've got a couple here. This is my prettiest camera. [01:44:07] Speaker B: Let me. [01:44:07] Speaker D: Oh, we might have to come back. [01:44:09] Speaker B: Yeah, There we go. [01:44:12] Speaker D: This is my Pentax 67. That has all the wooden grips. It has my lucky strap on it, too. [01:44:19] Speaker B: Good choice. [01:44:20] Speaker D: Good plug. [01:44:21] Speaker A: That looks good. [01:44:22] Speaker B: Heavy, heavy camera. Needs a nice comfort. [01:44:25] Speaker D: It is really, really heavy and fully metal and mechanical and gorgeous. I actually bought it with my first Rolling Stone paycheck, so that was my subtle flex. [01:44:37] Speaker C: That's the camera Yorgoth Lathamos uses on all of his films to take his stills with. [01:44:45] Speaker E: Oh, that's. [01:44:45] Speaker D: It's gorgeous. It's like such a beautiful portraiture lens. 105 is. Yeah, it's beautiful, like, and a little bit lighter and easier to operate than my Mamiya in the field, which is good. Which is crazy. [01:45:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, it's so light. [01:45:04] Speaker F: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:45:06] Speaker A: Oh, I Love that. [01:45:07] Speaker D: This is my first Polaroid SX70 and I actually shoot with an SX70 at most gigs as well. The one that I normally shoot with that's in my Pelican case has got autofocus, which makes my life a little easier. But yeah, this one's been reskinned and re dealt with all the internals from Jake from the Instant Camera guy. He services all old Polaroid cameras, which is incredible. We need more people like him servicing our cameras so that we can keep using them. But yeah, I also grabbed the Super 8 because we were talking about that the other week. So this is what a Super 8 camera looks like. [01:45:48] Speaker A: That's so cool. [01:45:49] Speaker B: Should I buy one of those? [01:45:52] Speaker D: The film is really expensive. [01:45:55] Speaker B: There's no. I saw one. I saw one on Marketplace the other day. I saved it. I just, I'm. [01:45:59] Speaker D: No, it's so. They're so hidden. No, four of them. That didn't work. It was really bad. But this one does work and I shot my first music video on it. But yeah, it's quite expensive film wise. It's like 80 a cartridge for three and a half minutes worth of footage. And then it's about a hundred dollars to scan it. So maybe not. But it's cool. [01:46:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [01:46:24] Speaker D: Yeah, that's my show and tell. [01:46:26] Speaker A: Nice. [01:46:27] Speaker B: That's awesome. Nice. [01:46:29] Speaker A: Very nice indeed. Let's jump to Joel. Joel, let's see your favorite toys. Have you got your favorite toys there, mate? [01:46:36] Speaker E: I got. [01:46:36] Speaker F: Yeah, I think I got most of the ones I use most of the time. So this one I got Recently a Nikon F301. Like I got it from a friend. He just gave it to me because it wasn't used. But it's like it's got auto winding, not auto focus, so manual lenses. But the shutter is crazy loud. Like I don't know if it will work. Hang on. It's. Oh yeah, that's the sound of whining film on. It's empty. But like the shutter is so electrical and really loud. So it's not the most like inconspicuous camera at a wedding, but it's pretty cool. But I think this is the one that I sort of just have just in case like something like I can just grab and shoot. Like I could have it on aperture priority if I need to as well, but I just have like a 28 mil 2.8 lens on it. It's like plasticky and but like gives like a really beautiful like image. I don't know how, but plastic. [01:47:41] Speaker C: And that was A complete pro lens in its day. [01:47:45] Speaker F: It feels so light. It feels plastic. I don't know, I think it's like an old version. Is it like the same one? [01:47:52] Speaker C: Yeah, the same one and it's an af, so it's an auto focus lens. Right. They're using on a manual focus camera. These were all in the 1990s. You would have been paying for those lenses, like 1200 bucks. 1600 bucks. They were like great. Beautiful. [01:48:07] Speaker F: So light. I love it. Like, I love it. It gives off some insane dynamic range in, in the image. But you look at them online now and they're so cheap. They're like a hundred and couple hundred bucks maybe. But like in. So that, that's probably why I thought it was cheap and plastic. So I'm sorry. But it's like a great lens. [01:48:27] Speaker A: I love it. [01:48:28] Speaker F: This camera is like everyone. So I've had people like Mitchell recently messaged me saying that this is, he reckons the best camera that's been ever made. And it is, it's pretty amazing. But I actually, from what I do, I'm not a huge fan. I've had it for like a month and I'm probably gonna sell it. [01:48:53] Speaker A: What is it? Sorry, Joe? [01:48:55] Speaker F: Mamia 76 by 7 medium format with like the 80 mil f4 Mamiya lens. And it's just like incredibly sharp. Like there's been, I've seen YouTube videos of people putting like gauze, like netting between the lens and the body because it's too sharp. They actually want to soften it a little bit. [01:49:17] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [01:49:18] Speaker F: So it's, it's amazing when it works, but it's just not, not conducive to my workflow, I think. So I'm going to get rid of that one soon, which is sad because I know a lot of friends are sort of kicking me over it a little bit and this is just what, just one of the Trusty workhorses, the F3. Like just. I can go to that at any time with the 51.4 on it. 1.8. And it's just like. Yeah, I can't. It's hard to fault that. Like this would be my main camera if it was quieter. But the shutter is also like a. It's just a slap, you know, I don't know if it'll working on. Yeah, it's just a. It's just a normal slap. But for street photography even that's a bit too much. I try to be a little bit more subtle, I think, and then I've got the contacts G1, which is also like, like epic. I'm thinking about getting the G2. I think the biggest difference between the two is that the G2's autofocus is much better. And also the viewfinder window is like heaps bigger. Because I do struggle with how tiny this viewfinder window is. Sometimes it gives you not much vision. But this like contact 45 Carl Zeiss F2 is like. Yeah, it's. That's like a, like a quality, you know, glass. [01:50:43] Speaker B: What's that? [01:50:43] Speaker F: Why is my Facebook feed started? [01:50:44] Speaker D: Yeah, sorry, Paul. [01:50:47] Speaker B: The algorithm's getting you everyone in trouble this week. [01:50:50] Speaker F: Yeah, but there's that one. And I've also got the 28 mil lens with it. There's three lenses that got made with that. It's the 90, the 45 and the 28. And I've got the 28 and the 45. And I jump between those a lot actually. But the 45 is really good. And this is like one of my favorites. Contacts 35 ti. It's just like the cutest little point shoots. Got the. [01:51:12] Speaker A: I love that. That's gorgeous on the top. [01:51:15] Speaker F: You turn it on and like everything sort of starts turning. It's once I got film in it, but it's just like one of my favorite little point and shoot cameras. Yeah. Like image quality out of that glass is like epic. I think it's like a 35 2.8 that come lens that comes with it. And then just like every wanky hipster film photographer, I've got a Leica, so just hit the trifecta. Why not? But I sold the expan and got this because, you know, you hear stories and you hear myths and then you just think that it can't be true and then you get it and then you just turn into every other like a wanker out there and just think that you're just like, you know, whatever. But it's great. Like it's. It is my favorite film camera by far. You know, I'm not gonna bother to vent on all the things that every other Leica user will tell you. So you just know. There you go. So that's pretty much my kit. [01:52:16] Speaker B: It's quite a kit. [01:52:18] Speaker F: Yeah, it's. I think when you first start film photography, you just have like 30 cameras and there's like four or five that are kind of the same or a little bit. And I think over the years I've just sort of culled it down, sold a couple, get something else. So I've just like curated my kit to be just like not heaps, but like all really good quality at what they do. [01:52:39] Speaker B: So. [01:52:39] Speaker F: Yeah, it's fun. [01:52:41] Speaker A: Nice. Thanks for show and tell and sharing. [01:52:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Anyone else got any toys kicking around? [01:52:47] Speaker C: Oh yeah, I got a couple here. [01:52:51] Speaker E: I know you go first. [01:52:52] Speaker C: I'm not going to pull them out. I've just got a couple of really like original day Kodak box brownies up there on my shelf. Like they're in just completely brand new condition. [01:53:06] Speaker B: I got one sitting here too as well. I don't know what it does. It's just, it's just. [01:53:10] Speaker D: I've shot with one. [01:53:11] Speaker B: Have you really? [01:53:13] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. It's really cool. It's a bit like the Holger. It's like you just kind of push the button and hope for the best. [01:53:20] Speaker B: I'd love to. [01:53:20] Speaker C: This one just has little slides that come in and out to adjust things. [01:53:24] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:53:26] Speaker C: Jason? [01:53:27] Speaker B: Yeah. What do you got? [01:53:29] Speaker E: I actually didn't realize we were doing a show and tell, but I just do happen to surround myself with cameras. [01:53:34] Speaker B: So it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't really planned. [01:53:38] Speaker E: I, I have a love of little Olympus cameras. So this is the Olympus XA2. I used to. I had the original XA with the actual rangefinder. I didn't. My eyesight actually wasn't good enough to use range finder on that one. And this is a little trip. But my, my. I, I pick cameras on their magical qualities. And I, I don't believe in magical qualities of digital cameras, but I do believe magical qualities of film cameras. And probably my favorite one was actually, I don't know if I can. If you can see this one, this is the Olympus ecr. So I don't have it on me at the moment, but I just love picking a picture. It was basically a point and shoot camera, but it had a manual range finder which I, which I actually found a little easier to use. And it had this amazing auto exposure that seemed to pick the right shutter speed aperture combination that I never actually had to think about was always really good. And here's a little trick in order. Because it was an auto exposure camera, I actually controlled my exposure by changing the ISO. So I would put a 400 ISO film in and if it's too dark I would tell it it's a slower film. If it's too bright, I tell it it's a faster film. And it actually worked really well. And it was just one of those cameras where I traveled the world with. I went through China and Europe, all that and it just got the shots I wanted, it was just had this magical quality. It was a 42 mil f 2.8 lens and when I put it to my face, no one ran away then. Yeah. So I have a real love of these cameras. I, I realized I've still got to film this one. Probably put that in like 10 years ago. [01:55:25] Speaker F: So. [01:55:27] Speaker B: Careful, careful. What is on the first six frames? Could be anything when you get that developed. Just be careful. [01:55:35] Speaker E: But again, for that, have you got. [01:55:38] Speaker F: The flash unit that goes in the side? [01:55:40] Speaker E: No, I don't think The XA Does XA4 do the flash? Yeah, it does, but I don't, I don't know. I think all my, all my film cameras tend to be quite daylight cameras now, so. [01:55:55] Speaker F: Right. [01:55:55] Speaker E: But yeah, I got a lot of weird cameras. I got, you know, a couple of Nikons, couple of Minoltas, got. I got a lovely Bessa L which is a, A really weird one because it has no viewfinder in it. So it. You just put a little viewfinder on the actual hot shoe. Hopefully it corresponds to the lens that you have and, and you shoot again. I, I like things that make me act differently with the camera. So that one, you kind of got to guesstimate what you're framing, but yeah, you just go for it and you enjoy the surprise. [01:56:29] Speaker A: Nice. [01:56:31] Speaker B: Couple of, couple of good comments. First of all, Nev Clark. Hey, Nevada. That's almost exactly the same as what I've got. Jason. I've still got it. It was my mum's camera. It was the first camera I shot on the beach. Don't know when it was made. Paul has got a K1000 EFM. Is that a. Oh, that's, that's not. Is that a film? What's an AFM? I don't know. That camera. Olympus Trip 35 and 60s 70s Kodak Instamatic. Lucky X is in the chat for me. Justin, the viewfinder for the Brownie camera is on the top. Well, that'll help. I was looking through the back of it and I couldn't see anything. Just shows. Amazing. An amazing film photographer. [01:57:21] Speaker A: Hey, Exe, I think. I think Justin needs a mentor. [01:57:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Exy says he's got a Texas Leica, which. That's the, that's the Fuji. [01:57:32] Speaker F: Or is it the medium 6 by 9? [01:57:34] Speaker B: 6 by 9? Yeah, yeah, but. So that's a medium format, is it? [01:57:38] Speaker F: Six by nine ratio as a 35 mil frame, but just medium format film. So you get nine shots of roll, I think. Or eight maybe something like. Yeah, not much. Yeah, yeah. [01:57:55] Speaker B: And Jay Shannon's got an Agfa Ambi silhouette rangefinder with three Ambian prime lenses. 1957 German made. Never heard of it, but it sounds cool. Is it cool? And also remember the little flash cubes? You guys remember the flash cubes? [01:58:15] Speaker A: I was fascinated with those as a kid because my nan would take photos with one of those and every photo she'd chop the top off everyone's head no matter what. And. And yeah, the little flash cube that would spin around, that was so cool. I just thought it was magical. I just, I was pretty little when I saw it. Like 22 or something. [01:58:35] Speaker B: I'm mindful that we are absolutely coming up on two hours and I don't want to hold you guys here any longer because you've already donated too much of your time to this podcast. But I do want to ask you something very controversial to end the show on. We're going to skip the Choosing Film segment because that's. [01:58:49] Speaker A: I think we've covered that. [01:58:50] Speaker B: Yeah, we kind of covered it. We usually skip the last segment anyway. So what do you guys think of the, of the new trend that I coined cosplay cameras? What do you think of digital cameras that are dressing up as film cameras beyond just looks, but to the point where they're adding film type features like a film winder, film advance lever that, like, all it does is allow you to take the next shot and stuff like that, or it can have a special function or anything. What do you think of that? Is that a trend that you're into, you're not into? Talk to me. Don't go at once. [01:59:39] Speaker D: I think it's good for accessibility into the fold for people that are maybe too scared to put both feet in for like how we're talking about like buying your first film camera and how scary that might be to try and find something. Like, I definitely think it's a good first step if you're not really quite sure, you don't have the funds to like be forking out like $32 for portrait 800. So as a starting point, I think it's okay. Again, it depends on what you use it for. Like, I've got one and I like using it just as a excuse to shoot when I'm out with my friends, like, rather than anything professional. I think they, they fall in different categories for me. [02:00:25] Speaker B: So the one that you've got though, that was fairly cheap, wasn't it? [02:00:28] Speaker D: Yeah, I think it was like 150 bucks. [02:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is sort of. Yeah. And it is, I guess it is a Kind of a faux film, you know, point, point and shoot, throwaway camera. But I also kind of see that as well. It's a cheap digital camera with no screen. It doesn't have. It doesn't have. Do you have to wind it or anything or is it just. [02:00:48] Speaker D: Yes, there's a winder on it. [02:00:50] Speaker B: Oh, it does have a. Okay, so it does cross into that, what I'm thinking where it's kind of like it doesn't need to have a winder, but it's got a winder. [02:00:57] Speaker D: Yeah. It's practically a disposable camera but with a sensor inside of it. [02:01:01] Speaker B: Do you like that it's got a winder or would you be. Would you rather it with no winder? [02:01:06] Speaker D: I think it kind of plays into the, the novelty of it being a disposable camera. I think the whole branding behind that was that everyone was buying disposable cameras but then creating so much waste because they were buying the disposables that were one time use. So I think that sort of shift into like, oh, well, here's an option that also works with your like digital workflows and being able to access photos on phones and stuff. Again, I don't think it was pitched to professional photographers. I think it was pitched more at like people having fun on the weekend, taking happy snaps with it. And I think that's where the market for it is. [02:01:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:01:48] Speaker B: Any other thoughts? [02:01:50] Speaker C: I think any camera that stops you using your phone as a camera is a good camera. It instantly changes the way you're thinking. [02:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:02:01] Speaker F: Yep. [02:02:02] Speaker A: Yep. Spot on, Brent. Absolutely. Joel, what are your thoughts? I can, I can feel you holding back. Unleash. [02:02:09] Speaker C: What do you think? [02:02:10] Speaker F: What do you think of me? Look, I very, I'm very. I agree with Brent in if it's motivating you to go out and take photos, like intentional photos, you know, and you enjoy the process and it gives you results that you're happy about, then really that's all that matters because, you know, unless you're doing it for work, you know, professionally, at the end of the day you pick up a camera for yourself and no one else. So, you know, if you like that process, go for that process, you know, but if you want the experience of film, you know, and if that's the question, then, you know, these companies that are making it, you know, playing into it, it's, yeah, like you said, a really good way to get your foot in the door. But it's not going to be like the real thing, you know, like it's just not know it's, it's cool and as its own thing but you know it's definitely its own category and it deserves a place but you know it's not gonna take over film or you know it's not going to give you that 100 film experience. [02:03:14] Speaker A: I think, yeah, I, I, I think that you know sometimes I'll suggest to people if, if you really want to get started with film but you are in that fear area, you know, you're scared of, of the whole process and then go and literally buy a couple of disposables, go buy a couple of Fuji Quick Snap and just go out and take them with you. And again if it gets you off your phone, it gets you seeing the world differently, it gets you thinking about light and composition and color then it's a good thing. Even if it is, you know, a cheap 30 throwaway camera that yes there is waste but you know I met going to Japan I would, I would have my Fuji kit, my digital kit but I would grab from a 711 or a family Mart a couple of quick, quick Snap Fuji disposables and just throw that into the mix just for something fun, you know and it is fun to do that. You don't have to necessarily, I don't think you have to necessarily go to the, the, the lengths of, of spending more on a digital cosplay camera. I, I say just spend 30 bucks and grab a, you know, grab a disposable and just see what happens. You know, buy two, go out for a walk with your mate and make it a competition or you know, whatever it is, whatever gets you looking at the world as a photographer, not just as a. I've got my phone and I'm going to document this for social like actually mindful photography then it's a good thing. [02:04:44] Speaker B: Love it. Anyone else have any burning thoughts on the state of the current photography industry and film and anything, anything before we wrap up? [02:04:55] Speaker E: Well, so just to answer that previous question, like with digital camera designs, I think that's actually the future for many in many respects like we've reached our megapixel peak and we've got speed and everything. I think people are realizing that they do want to slow down and that's why the Fujis are doing so, so well is because they don't want to spend all their time editing so that Fuji put in film, film looks to it, you know and even like it was X half with the, with the film winder it feels really stupid until you realize that if you have to take another photo, you have to wind that thing so you, it's the same thought process. Well, I should probably make this shot count first. You know, just pressing, pressing, pressing. So it, I think camera design is behavior modification. And if it makes you a bit more deliberate, if it makes you think more about this feature or that feature, like even the, the Fuji GFX100RF, they've got that little dial that changes the, the aspect ratio of your photo. Now that could be done in the previous models, but because they put it as a physical dial, you're more presently aware of that feature. So, so I'm gonna, I'm excited about it because like that's my digital xpan, so I, I get to shoot, you know, XPAN frame, which makes me look at the world differently. And that, and just by having that feature makes me go, oh. And even just the, the restriction, they, they made it a 35 mil f4 lens. So I can't rely on the buttery, shallow depth of field. I had to think about my whole frame and I think that's an exciting challenge to go. Yeah, well, I have to think foreground, middle ground, background. So let's shoot that way. And you know, because we can do anything with what we have, sometimes having those limitations or even just that slight slow down process is actually really valuable. [02:06:50] Speaker F: Yeah. [02:06:51] Speaker A: Just a quick story. I, sometimes I'll do street walks with camera clubs and every now and then I'll throw them a challenge. I'll say, look, okay, I want you to shoot in JPEG only. Set your aspect ratio to one by one and shoot black and white. And the fear on people's faces, you know, and these are seasoned photographers, not pros necessarily, lots of enthusiasts. And just the fear of changing their view of the world from what they're used to shooting, it's quite remarkable. Some embrace it, some hate it. It's really interesting exercise to see in, you know, a group of 20 or 30 photographers that, oh look, I did this one square. You know, like they're really excited by that restriction. Like you said, Jason, you know, you restrict. We often become more creative with limitations because we have less to work with and, and more to gain. So yeah, it is interesting. I think on that note, just we might wrap it up. You've got any last comments you want to cover up? [02:07:53] Speaker B: In the chat, Greg had a good one about digital cameras that are acting like film cameras. He said they're like henna tattoos. He doesn't, he doesn't say whether that's a good thing. Or a bad thing. He just said they're like henna tattoos. Bruce Moore says Plastic Fantastic are always fun entry points. [02:08:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:08:11] Speaker B: What else? I don't know. There's tons. We missed a heap. We'll catch up on all the comments next week, I'm sure. Yeah, no, we're good to go, I think. [02:08:20] Speaker A: I think. On that note, gang, I think we're going to wrap. But just before we do a couple of little housekeeping things for anyone that's new to watching us tonight, or if you come across this down the track, you stumble across it thanks to your algorithms, make sure you drop a. Like, it helps us out a lot. It helps other people see what we're, what we're doing. And, you know, if you're keen to stick around, subscribe, hit the bell button so you get notifications. We do two episodes of the Camera Life a week at least. Sometimes we'll sneak in a third, but we go live Every Monday evening, 7.30pm Australian Eastern Standard Time, because we are all here in Australia. And Thursday morning, 9am Australian Eastern Standard Time. Again, we have a regular interview show where we talk with amazing, inspirational creative photographers across a sweeping range of genres and approaches and skill at experience levels. And you know, like just last week we caught up with, with Rodney who's been in the game for. He's just celebrated his 51st year as a, as a working photographer. Pretty phenomenal effort. So that's the sort of stuff we cover off. [02:09:32] Speaker B: We've also done interviews with these four legends as well. So just search their names and they'll come up. Go listen to their episodes. All awesome episodes, very different topics, wonderful hours and hours of fun. Plus, this Thursday we've got Nick Fletcher from BE fame coming in, coming in hot. Yeah, Philip Johnson is excited for that one. So see you on Thursday. Otherwise, thanks guys for joining us. Thanks for being the. You guys are the first ever panel show for us. [02:10:04] Speaker A: Yeah, good. [02:10:05] Speaker B: Not, not ever. [02:10:06] Speaker D: We did it. [02:10:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Never to be repeated. Jason, Brent, Lucinda and Joel, thank you so much for your time tonight. We, we appreciate, as I'm sure our, our viewers do, getting your insights, given that, you know, your experience and, and what you guys are doing with your craft. I, I'm sure that people watching have taken away a lot from tonight's episode. Certainly a lot of food for thought. But yeah, we will wrap it up there. So thank you once again for joining us and we'll see you guys on Thursday morning. But until then, get out and shoot. [02:10:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll play some music and we'll well, is it going to work? Where's my music? Yeah, there it is. [02:10:53] Speaker A: Hey. [02:10:55] Speaker B: Goodbye, Rodney. Rxa the for photography. Good to see you. Greg Carrick. You're very funny. He said the show is developing Ian Thompson. Bruce Moyle says use code Jim. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, Jay. Shanny. Thanks, Nev. Thanks, Paul. Thanks, everybody. [02:11:14] Speaker A: Thanks, everyone. We'll see you Thursday.