EP83 Lucinda Goodwin | Melbourne Live Music Photographer

[00:00:18] Speaker A: I don't think I've ever been quite so conscious of our intro music as I have today. And we'll get to the reason for that in just a moment. But welcome, everybody. This is the Camera Life podcast, proudly brought to you by Lucky Straps, makers of of fine leather camera straps. From Bendigo in Victoria, we've got a cracker of a show today. We've got music and event photographer and portrait photographer, and she also shoots digital and film. We're joined today by Lucinda Goodwin. Welcome to the show, Lucinda. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Thank you for having me. [00:00:52] Speaker A: Hey. Very well. It's great to have you. It's finally good to get some feminine energy on this show. All we get is gray beards and old men ranching at the sky and. [00:01:02] Speaker C: An attempted gray beards. Look at this little thing. [00:01:04] Speaker A: Are there any gray hairs in there? It's hard to tell because you can't actually see anything. [00:01:07] Speaker C: There's a couple. There's a couple. They're hiding. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Justin's been growing that beard for six years now. I just forgot to shave last week. So great to have you on the show. Welcome to the Camera Life. We're going to dive into your full story, your background, your inspirations, you know, what sort of rock royalty you've met, all of those sorts of questions. But first, let's just get from you a quick summary of who you are and what you do. Let's hear it from you. [00:01:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, so I've been a music photographer for 15, 15 years, almost 16 years. So, yeah, I've been kicking around festivals and gigs since I was like 17, 18, and yeah, just like immersing myself in the music. So I had a lot of friends when I was growing up that were musicians and would drag me along to their shows and I'd be there inevitably early because they had to sound check. And so I would be like, what am I gonna do? Like, I'm hanging around for all these hours. So I ended up taking my dad's pen tax digital and just sort of starting to snap away at shows. And then, yeah, decided that I wanted to study after high school. And yeah, the. I think the real kicker for me was like, instead of going to schoolies after year 12, I like, booked tickets to go to Falls festival instead. So I just. Yeah, and at the time you could take your camera. So I just stood on the. The barrier side of the fence and just like shot from the crowd and I was like, yeah, cool. This is what I want to do. This is like, this is. This is everything. So, yeah, study for Two years and then we're shooting music like, like I was studying five days a week and then shooting music almost every night and then like just backing it up the next morning, going to class at 8:00am and then, yeah, just sort of rolled on from there. [00:03:03] Speaker A: Wow, that's quite a journey. We're gonna make that a little more detail, but first let's jump into the good mornings. Justin, good morning. [00:03:11] Speaker C: Justin, good morning. It's good to be here. Thanks Greg. [00:03:16] Speaker A: You're paying the bill, you're keeping the lights going, so I thought I better say hello at least. [00:03:21] Speaker C: We've also got David Moscow in the chat from San Francisco. Good to see you, David. And Philip Johnson as always says good morning. [00:03:31] Speaker A: If anyone else is watching. Yeah, sorry. [00:03:33] Speaker C: Oh, that's. I was going to say if you're listening along live, jump in the chat, ask questions. You know, if you've ever wanted to shoot live music, it is tricky. Lucinda might be able to give you some tips. Yeah, there's so much to it. It's something I had a lot. I played in bands when I was younger, before I got into photography and the world's never kind of crisscrossed much. I've shot a little bit of live music but never, never a lot. I think access got pretty difficult as I, as I sort of got out of. Out of music and more into photography. Yeah, the live music kind of scene, the access changed a lot with digital and anyway, we'll dig into all of that. I'm sure it's a very tricky world to navigate, but no, I've only shot. [00:04:17] Speaker A: Two, I think two music related things. One was a gig with Fujifilm Australia. It was the Cap Carter Hidden event in Port Melbourne. I was asked to do all the behind the scenes street style photography for them which was fun and huge learning curve and the only other person that I've photographed that's a musician is. Gosh, I can't. Darren Middleton from. What's he from again? Powder Finger. Yeah, but that's only because he's a camera whore and we're friends and every time he sees me with a camera he wants me to take his portrait. So love you Darren, if you ever hear this. But look, if you're in the chat, yeah, jump in, ask questions, let us know, say hi, let us know you're here, let us know who you are, where you're watching from. And don't forget guys, that if you are new to the challenge or anyone that's watching today, please hit like. And if you are new to the channel Please subscribe. Tickle the bell so you get notifications. Because we, every now and then we drop a little sneaky random live show I did last week. We talked about the Fujifilm X half, but you can also watch that on our back catalog. Let's talk more about Lucinda. So, Lucinda, you mentioned you gave us a brief synopsis about how, you know, you were kicking around festivals from a young age. And, and you obviously have a, you know, a very, a very broad passion for music. Tell me, tell us about those sort of first experiences with your camera. What did you, what were some of the biggest learning, you know, learning opportunities that you gained from those first couple of gigs with the camera? [00:05:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the one, the one festival that I was always at was at Queensland Music Festival. So that's local to me, that's like 15 minutes down the road. And it was kind of rite of passage for people in my area to go to that festival. When you were like 16, you could go by yourself without your parents. And so I was going to that for a fairly long time and same sort of thing, I was taking my dad's camera and shooting that. But at the time they didn't have a barrier, they didn't have a photo pit in them in between the stage and the crowd. It was just like together. So it was a little bit hectic in terms of like trying to shoot and just understanding settings and stuff too, especially because I hadn't studied photography. Like, I had a, at school we had a photography class, like a media class, but the teacher didn't want to teach photography. She only wanted to teach video. And so I ended up dropping out because I was like, I don't, I don't want to learn video. I, I want to learn photo. I want to know how to use a camera for photo purposes. So I ended up dropping out and I did studio art a year ahead of myself. So you could do like an accelerated learning program where you did your year 12 studio art in year 11. And so I did all photography work in there, but the, the teacher was not too helpful in terms of like being able to teach me camera skills and stuff, because that wasn't where he came from. And that was fine. But yeah, definitely that big learning curve of like, understanding. Essentially when I went to, to study higher education photography, they were telling me all the rules of like, don't go over 100 ISO and don't do this and don't do that. And literally then I would go out that night and break every single rule that they had told. Good that day. [00:07:40] Speaker A: That's so good to hear. Yeah. [00:07:42] Speaker B: But, like, you had to in order to get the shot. Like, you can't. You can't not do that. You're in a dark, most of the time, band room with one light. Especially at that stage in my career where I wasn't shooting, like, massive, you know, festival hall or Rod Laver arenas or those sorts of things I definitely occasionally did, but not all the time. So on a Wednesday night, I was in High street in Northcote and there was, you know, one red light, and you have to make it work. Like. So I think this. The settings thing and understanding how to get the shot was so pivotal in. In getting to where I am now. Like, you're essentially trying to predict what someone is doing before they do it. [00:08:24] Speaker A: Yep. [00:08:25] Speaker B: So you can frame up the shot, get the shot, have your composition perfect. Like. Yeah, it's. When I explain it to somebody that's not in photography, they're like, you are a little bit crazy. Like. [00:08:39] Speaker A: That'S your superpower. Hold on to that. [00:08:41] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [00:08:42] Speaker C: Yeah. It's. It's kind of like shooting sports in that sense, where you're trying to anticipate the. The action and the key moment so you can be ready for it. Because if. If you're not ready for it, it's too late. It's already happened and it's. But it's this. Those. Those iconic shots are. Moment that could be a split second. So I just. Before we. This is going to derail the show really early on today. [00:09:05] Speaker B: It's okay. You're fine. [00:09:07] Speaker C: Do you think it's far easier to get great shots as you. As you progress? Because you were just talking about. And I remember what it was like, like these. The smaller gigs, lighting's terrible, everything's hard, backgrounds are busy and stuff like that. And then as you progress to bigger and bigger shows and bigger and bigger artists with greater lighting and special effects and everything, do you think it's easier to take great show photos at those shows, or is it harder to stand out from the crowd because more photographers are doing the same stuff? Like, what's that like? [00:09:41] Speaker B: It's probably a bit of both. It's probably a lot of. A lot of both of those things. I feel. I used to teach, so I taught for six years, and there would be a lot of people that would come up to me, like, I want to be a music photographer, but they wanted to do what I was doing at that point in my career. My career hasn't really taken off. And until sort of like, after Covid, ironically, I was. I've been doing this. I've been doing it for a very long time. But like, all of a sudden, after Covid, I was so incredibly busy that I, like, I didn't know where it was coming from. And I just. I was getting bigger and bigger shows and I was getting. I wasn't doing a lot of publication work, which we'll go into at some point as well, but I was getting booked by the artist or I was getting booked by the festival or the, you know, programmer or what. Whoever it was. I wasn't actually doing a lot of publication work. So I was getting all this, like, higher access to artists and being able to document them. But yeah, like, they would. They would want to jump. They would want to, like, not do the groundwork of going to their local bar every Friday, Saturday night and just like cutting their teeth. They wanted to go straight to Rod Laver Arena. And I get it from a lighting perspective and like, you know, your settings are a lot easier to manage in those situations, but you have to know how to harness light and how to manipulate a situation like that with your camera in order to get to that place. So it's kind of. I remember chicken or egg kind of vibe. [00:11:13] Speaker A: So I was just going to say when we talked to Shane Henderson. Do you know Shane, He's a heavy metal photographer. He does a lot of bands, but he does heavy metal photography mostly. We had him on the show last year and he was telling us about what, you know, with his concert photography, he'd only get a. You know, it'd only be like the first two songs that they were allowed to photograph from memory and. Yeah, and so he would be in the. At bigger concerts, he would be in that. The pit that they create for the photographers. But behind him there's, you know, tens of thousands of people, like, clamoring to get closer. There's death, crowd surfing, Rings of Death. There's. [00:11:50] Speaker B: I've been kicked in the head before. I've had a beer can drop to the smoke. Oh, yeah. [00:11:56] Speaker A: You know, like all of these elements that most photographers never have to comprehend or deal with. [00:12:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Let alone work out how to shoot in a, you know, really dark environment where sometimes it's pitch black and the lights will come on and there's your golden moment. But you've got to be ready. I think it's a fascinating genre and one that requires a lot of skill and prowess. [00:12:16] Speaker B: You really need to know, like, your settings on your camera. Like, that's the. That's the main thing, you need to know where those buttons are with your eyes closed. Quite literally. [00:12:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:25] Speaker B: You can't. You can't look at the back of your account. It's too dark. [00:12:29] Speaker A: That's how Justin takes most of his photos. [00:12:33] Speaker C: Works out fine. Autofocus is so good these days. [00:12:35] Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. [00:12:39] Speaker C: Yeah. It's. I think the other thing is too. And obviously it's in everywhere. Everyone wants. Everyone wants to be, you know, an F1 photographer because they'll get better photos than if they were just shooting at their, you know, their local speedway track at home or whatever. You know, like go kart track. But you got to earn your rights to be there as well. Because. Because access is such a big thing. Like you've got to prove that you can do it. Like you say that you can do it with your eyes closed if required. That you're going to get good shots. And also what. Like, what are you. Who are you doing it for? Where are you delivering value? Who are you delivering? And too. And that is something that takes a long time to build if you just want to go there to take him for fun. Although I did hear of a guy in the States. I'm trying to think of what artist he works with. Massive country artist in the States. Super popular. What's that guy's name? I can't remember. [00:13:33] Speaker B: I know who you're talking about, but continue the story. And then I'll. [00:13:37] Speaker C: His photographer started doing workshops in and he got like. The artist was like, hey, that's cool. Like, I think it's a very small group. It's in a certain part of the, you know, the set they're all happy with or whatever. And he's like, I can give people this experience that they will never get. It was. It was like workshop but also more like experience. You know, you're probably never going to do this for a living. Here's. Here's the opportunity to experience what it's like to be in an arena and shoot a famous act. [00:14:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I do. I do draw issue with that though because I think I looked at it because that artist. I won't. I don't name drop. But yeah, you can look. You can. You can find it. I think it was about two and a half thousand dollars to do it. [00:14:21] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Sort of cost. Yeah. I don't know if. Yeah. I don't know if any of that has to go towards if that's all going to the photographer or if some of that's going to like the artist and the management and the. The I don't know what. You know, like, the sort of. Some of those. Not all of it's going to the photographer. I have no idea. I didn't even look at the price. [00:14:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I didn't research it too far. I had a friend reach out and showed me and looked at the price tag. I didn't actually look any further than that because, again, I'm very privileged in what I get to do and I get to do those things on the regular. But, yeah, I don't know whether that included, like, a ticket to see the rest of the show. Because the other thing is that as a photographer for a publication, you get kicked out after the first three songs. Most of the time you don't actually get to see the rest of the show. [00:15:09] Speaker C: I think it. So it included a workshop, I think. I can't remember before. It also included a full tour of the venue backstage before the show. So I think it was a big experience. [00:15:19] Speaker B: It's leaning. It's leaning kind of into that, like, vip, like me, kind of like. [00:15:24] Speaker C: Yep. For a photographer camera. Exactly. Because I remember them saying they take them up right up into, like, the rafters and the rigging or like, it was. It was quite. Yeah. I think there was a lot to it anyway, whether or not any of us could really afford it. I just thought it was interesting because I would have thought an artist that big would. Would be like, no, we don't need that at our show. You know, like, this is just extra people. It's stuff that we don't really want there. But this photographer had built a relationship good enough to. To. [00:15:53] Speaker B: To be able to do that, to. [00:15:54] Speaker C: Be able to do that. Which I thought was cool. But, yeah, that does sound pricey. [00:15:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:59] Speaker A: Yeah. We've got a comment. We've got a question. [00:16:03] Speaker C: Oh, cool. [00:16:05] Speaker A: From David. So with lights constantly changing, are you shooting in a particular mode or always in manual? [00:16:13] Speaker B: Always in manual. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Always in manual. [00:16:16] Speaker B: Always in manual, Yep. And I also use single autofocus point, so I am literally framing the shot before anything happens. So I am quite literally, like, predicting where it is. I frame everything up and I wait for the movement to come across my screen. Yeah. And, yeah, I'm shooting raw, so I've got, like, parameters to, like, move. But I feel like I'm really cheating now because I have two Canon mirrorless cameras. I have the R5 and the R5 too. And so, like, I'm seeing exactly when I'm getting spat out on the other end. Now. Like, I. I started in DSLR land where you would take a shot and then you look in, the strobe's gone off and it's completely white. But yeah, now I'm seeing through the viewfinder exactly what I'm gonna get. So it's actually a lot easier. I'm not looking at my TTL meter. I shouldn't say that out loud, but I very rarely look at it because I'm. I'm just seeing exactly what I'm gonna get. [00:17:15] Speaker C: What you see is what you get. It is. It was so different because, you know, when you shoot with DSLRs, you're always looking at the meter and being like, all right. You know, you'd be like, I need to be about under a stop and a half because it's a dark stage, but there's a spotlight and you're trying to, you know, you sort of figure that out. [00:17:31] Speaker B: Trying to like, gauge it. Yeah, it's really quite a challenging with dslr. It's. Yeah, the TTL meter sometimes is lying to you because, yeah, depending on your metering mode, it. It really tricks you. [00:17:42] Speaker C: It was funny. I did a Jerry Jonas workshop years ago and he taught me the thing. The only time that it really stuck in my head how to use your meter in complex situations or in all situations really, because I hadn't. I sort of was. I don't know, just trying to figure it out. But he, he just said it quickly and it made so much sense. He said, look at the scene. Imagine it was all paint and you could just mush it all together. Roughly what sort of shade, how bright would that shade be? Because 18 gray is middle is your middle of your meter. He said, so if you're looking at the scene and you mush it all together and it's going to be close to white, well, you need, you know, your meter will be reading multiple stops above. And I was like, ah, that's a. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Really clever way of explaining it. [00:18:28] Speaker C: I know. I was like, that's no wonder he's so famous and does lots of workshops and stuff. Because if you have a big black stage and just one little bit of light and you mix it all together well, it's still going to be mostly black. Okay. Your meter's going to read really low. Ah, it was the first time that it really clicked for me. And then. And then we went to Mirrorless. Five years, ten years later, and it doesn't matter anymore. Is this our first canon photographer on the show, Greg, ever? Is it? [00:18:56] Speaker A: I don't know. No. Yeah, maybe brave enough to admit it. [00:19:01] Speaker C: Well, while you've been. [00:19:04] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:04] Speaker C: Well, I'm. I'm currently shooting with the R52 and the R3 and they're amazing. [00:19:09] Speaker B: So, yeah, I only just got the R52. [00:19:14] Speaker C: I. [00:19:14] Speaker B: It was very cheap. There was a lot of sales on Black Friday and I bought it four hours before I shot a festival and set it up like within. I was already in R5 land, so it was not that hard to flip over. [00:19:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:27] Speaker B: But yeah, brave move. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was fun. Again, it's just a tool. All the buttons are the same as the R5. So I'm. I'm normally shooting two bodies. So I normally. I have a harness on and like one either side. So, yeah, it was pretty. It's pretty easy switch over and I'm always like the next upgrade. So I had the R. That was a first step into mirrorless. [00:19:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:53] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's slightly different layout in the R as it was to the R5. So it was a nicer. It was a nicer move to have two camera bodies that are kind of. The buttons are like physically in the same sort of spots. Because again, when you're shooting Running Gun in the dark, it's really helpful to have sort of like similar camera bodies. [00:20:10] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. [00:20:11] Speaker A: You're not second guessing which one you got in your hand at the time. You just going with what's happening and trusting in your reflex and your muscle memory to. [00:20:19] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:20:20] Speaker A: To work the piece of kit. While we're on the piece of kit, let's talk about your lenses. So we've talked about your cameras that you're shooting with. What lenses are you typically packing? You said you're wearing a double harness. [00:20:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:31] Speaker A: We need to get lucky straps, double harnesses happening again. [00:20:34] Speaker C: I know it's back there. [00:20:37] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll get to it one day. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:40] Speaker A: You've got a harness on. Are you wearing a bag at all or is it just purely two cameras, two lenses? [00:20:45] Speaker B: So most of the time you can't. Like, there's a lot of like, etiquette stuff that's kind of unsaid in the photo pit. So I've shot, say Blues Fest in Byron Bay a fair few times. I was up there a couple months ago. There is sometimes 300 photographers in the photo pit at any one point. [00:21:02] Speaker A: What? [00:21:02] Speaker C: 300? [00:21:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:04] Speaker C: At the same time? [00:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:06] Speaker C: Oh my gosh. [00:21:07] Speaker B: I know. [00:21:08] Speaker C: I thought it would be like max 10 or something. I don't know. I. I had no idea before COVID. [00:21:13] Speaker B: Like a normal photo pick could be like up to 20 to 25 photographers at a little tiny venue in Melbourne, like, so you've got that as well as like, maybe five or six security, maybe management in the photo pit as well. Because management sometimes are, like, tracking their artist on stage. If they're running on stage, they don't want them to fall off or something. They might be in the photo pit for whatever reason. They might have their own photographer, they might have a video person. If they're a bigger show, there's like three or four, like, video streams, like, set up across the front of the stage. There's so many people in there. So security plus security. Yeah, exactly. So, like you. It's unwritten rule. No bag in the photo pit. You normally stash it sort of underneath the supports. If you've been to a gig before where there's like, those metal fences, there's normally like a little, like, cross beam and a little tiny, what looks like a seat. So normally you stash your bag underneath there and then you just run to that if you need to. Again, I'm lucky enough to be working with a lot of artists now, so I will sometimes have my. I normally take my pelican case because I've got a lot of gear if I'm shooting for the artist and I know that I can stash it somewhere. So sometimes that'll go in the green room. And I'll normally have. I actually have, like, a little tiny, like, bum bag that I put over my shoulder just to have, like, batteries and stuff in it. Potentially a smaller lens if I need it. I also. Sometimes I'm notorious for just putting a lens on a speaker stack when I'm shooting for the artist and the only one there. I will just, like, leave lenses all over the place and then have to go around and collect them all back up again. [00:22:46] Speaker C: I love that so much. I used to do that at weddings. I had wedding guests bring me lenses. I like, sit them in, like, a flower bed at a venue or something, and they'd walk over and had dirt on it. And they were like, is this yours? And I was like, yeah, sorry, that's mine. Thank you. It's fine. I probably would have forgot where I put it, but thanks. That's awesome. So you're a bit. Yeah, when you get in the zone, you're just in the zone. [00:23:10] Speaker B: And my lenses have been covered in beer. They've, like, been through rain. Like, I like, mistreat those poor things, like, no tomorrow, because, like, you have to. I photographed in, like, torrential rain. Like, it's. It's just part of the Job, like if it breaks, I'm just going to replace it. It's fine, it's whatever. So going back to the original question, my normal, my normal lens setup, 70 to 228, 24 to 70, 2.8, 1635, 2.8. I do have the 8 to 15 fisheye f4. I then have a couple of other lenses. Like I have a macro lens mainly for portraiture work. I bought that second hand a little while ago and I love it. [00:23:52] Speaker A: Which lens is that? [00:23:53] Speaker B: The 100 mil F2, I think 2.8. I think 2.8 maybe. Yeah. [00:23:59] Speaker C: Are you, are these RF or adapted EF or a bit of a mixture EF adaptive. [00:24:06] Speaker B: So all of them. So I haven't, I haven't flipped. So I, I, yes, I had. Evolution was 7D, 5D Mark III. I bought a 60, just straight 60. And then I was like, right, I need to, I need to upgrade the 5D. So what am I going to go? Am I going to go 5d4? Am I going to go mirrorless? And at the time I was teaching and a lot of the time we were getting a lot more mirrorless cameras through and I didn't really understand how they worked. So I was like, right, I probably should just go the R, they were pretty much the same spec. So at the time I was like, right, they're both new release. Let's, let's just pick a lane. If I hate it, I'll just get rid of it and go back to dslr. But I was like, at some point I need to flip. I don't want to get stuck in this like weird crossover of like the digital film days. I was like, I need to either be ahead or I'll fall behind. [00:24:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:00] Speaker B: So yeah, I got the adapter for the R and then I haven't really made the switch over because I was still shooting DSLR and mirrorless about two years ago I was still, I was doing both. So it was really hard to like, I don't want to carry extra lenses around. I already have to like card enough around. So yeah, I was just like, I'm just gonna adapt it and I haven't moved since. I feel like I will at some stage once they start going. Like, I know my 70 to 200 was like, it's abused. It's my favorite lens, I use it all the time, is practically permanently affixed to my camera. But I've had that repaired twice already. Like the autofocus motor died in it once and I think something else happened to it. The Internals of it. So once I kind of like, get to that next point of, like, having to repair stuff, I know Canon was saying that they're not going to sort of stock spare parts and stuff. So that'll be sort of. Then when I have to go, right, I'm gonna invest in a new set of kit, but I have to have 2.8 glass for everything that I shoot because of the situation that I'm in. So that makes sure that I'm spending the most amount of money on glass. [00:26:10] Speaker A: You know what you need? You need an ambassadorship with Canon. We've got. [00:26:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I would love that. [00:26:14] Speaker C: Yeah. Keep talking. Keep talking with Jen. Jen, Hook her up. Hook her up, Jen. So now look into these. The. Have you seen the 28 to 72.8 STM lens that's recently come out? And the 16 to 28. So I'm shooting with them. This is currently just. You can't tell, but this is the 16 to 28 2.8 that I've got zooming in and out. Where's the. Where is it? I shot here. [00:26:44] Speaker B: He's got so much gear, he doesn't know where he's put it. [00:26:46] Speaker C: I got a lot of gear. I shot an entire mountain biking shoot with this to test it out. On the one lens, 28 to 70, sports, fast sports a lot of it wide open. So this is basic. It's super compact, compact. It weighs half the weight of what your 24 to 70, 2.8 would. It's still 2.8. The focusing was really accurate. The only downside is, Obviously, you lose 24, so you know you're going 28 to 70 instead of 24 to 70, so you lose a little bit of your wide. And it's also. This position here is not active. You've got to twist it to there. And then it's in its functional position of 28 to 70. And then it's like, stow it away to put in the bag. But like, that's. That's. It's a 51.2, but like, it's. It's hard to see, but it's way smaller. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Yeah. I have a friend that shoots RF lenses, and I tested a couple out and I was just like, they're just so big. Like, why did we make mirrorless cameras smaller and they made the lenses bigger. [00:27:50] Speaker C: That's. Yeah. [00:27:52] Speaker A: The. Was it a rumor? We talked about on Monday night about the new. [00:27:57] Speaker B: The. [00:27:58] Speaker A: The final of the trilogy. [00:28:00] Speaker C: So. So I've got the. Yeah. The wide. And this is the normal. There's rooms that they're going to do is 70 to 150. [00:28:08] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:28:09] Speaker C: But the thing is, if you love your 70 to 200, the 70 to 200 RF, you've probably already played with it, I'm guessing is so compact anyway. And it's. It's great. Like, if that's your, like, mega lens, I'd probably invest. Stick with that. And then. But then this might do. And do 24 to 70 and it's, it's lighter and it's. I think they're. I mean, they're still expensive. They're about two grand instead of whatever the other ones are. Three and a half or something. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, I would highly. And then if you're really trying to save space and money, I'll just go. [00:28:43] Speaker A: You guys just talk about. [00:28:45] Speaker C: There's never canon people on the podcast. [00:28:47] Speaker A: It's my time to shoot Shine. [00:28:49] Speaker B: I feel like you should be vetting some people here and just like, are you. Which, which model are you? Let's. [00:28:55] Speaker C: That's the first, the first question we'd like to. On the podcast. What gear do you use? [00:29:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:00] Speaker A: Yeah, listen to. The reason why Justin's so excited is because when we first reignited this podcast last year and I came on board, I'm a Fuji shooter and I have a lot of contacts and friends and colleagues and peers that all shoot Fujifilm. And so, you know, we wanted to get interesting guests on. And so my first border call was my Fuji shooters. And everyone started calling this the Fuji Life podcast. And now Justin's finally got a friend he can chat to. I feel very out of place. [00:29:33] Speaker C: Do you want me to just kick you off, Greg, and we'll just, we'll just. I'll bring you back on once we start talking about photography again. [00:29:38] Speaker A: I'll just sit. I'll just sit back and be quiet for a change. [00:29:41] Speaker C: It's gear time. [00:29:42] Speaker B: I did. I did shoot Nikon, so I did shoot Nikon. I used to do school photos with a past. A past podcast human that you had on. [00:29:54] Speaker C: That's cool. [00:29:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I actually shot that for like six and a half years. [00:30:02] Speaker A: And so I think we've had about. [00:30:04] Speaker B: Fuji bodies and Nikon, Nikon bodies for group photos. So, yeah, I was Fuji and Nikon for that, which was very confusing when I'd then go after nine hours at school photos, go and photograph in the photo pit and wouldn't work out why the camera and the lens wouldn't come off because I was trying. [00:30:21] Speaker C: So you were shooting. So you Were shooting Nikon at work and then using your own kit Canon. Cuz that I switched from. I switched from Canon Canon to Nikon and then back to Canon again. And one of the hardest things was just the rotation of the zoom and the rotation of the lens, whatever you call it. [00:30:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Like I would be in the photo pit and I'd have three songs and I'd literally been shooting all week at work on a Nikon and I'm like I don't have time to be fumbling around with trying to switch lenses. Why is it not coming off? Oh it was the work camera that I was trying to. Trying to do the. Yeah. Take the lens off. So yeah it was always a little bit confusing in my brain that would have been I think so I think. [00:30:59] Speaker A: Mark Bluehoot has, I think we've had about. I think he might be the fifth person we've had on that. He's, he's recruited or has had working. [00:31:07] Speaker C: In his team at some stage. [00:31:08] Speaker A: I see what's going on. [00:31:10] Speaker C: Yeah, he's had a lot of photographers come through that. That place. [00:31:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:31:15] Speaker A: Which is great. [00:31:16] Speaker C: Did it. Did you learn anything that you've been able to apply to your broader, you know, photographic business while you were working there? [00:31:25] Speaker B: Yeah, a lot don't work with kids but kids and musicians. Not that dissimilar. [00:31:33] Speaker C: Change. [00:31:34] Speaker A: Stand still. [00:31:36] Speaker B: Exactly. I think some of it was like more interpersonal skill stuff for me. I come so I yeah left year 12, went straight into a photography course for two years full time in Melbourne and then went straight into that. So I, I finished course the course in November I think I got the job in started December that year and then rolled into the first like term one hecticness and so like I hadn't been out in the industry yet. Like I had been like I'd been shooting like gigs and stuff but I hadn't like I didn't ever like step into that freelance world until recently. So it was just a nice way to like have a somewhat stable income have like people around you that were all passionate about photography and you could just like, you know, it was a three hour car ride on average each morning and all you would talk about is gear and cameras and photos and like all of that sort of stuff because everyone had like that same common interest but it was also like talking to different people from different backgrounds and, and understanding how to get a good reaction out of somebody as well or how to read people. I think was the one school that I got more so solidified in my, in my Shooting for school photos because yeah, a prep kid would sit down and you would have to try and read the, read the room in terms of like, are they going to want to interact with me? Are they going to understand my like what I'm saying to them? Like, you know, and sometimes there was a language barrier. Sometimes English was not first language and so it was really hard for sometimes to communicate. So yeah, actions and, and really hamming things up and reading people was like one of the biggest things. I actually recently did a press shoot with a Japanese like metal core all girl group band. [00:33:22] Speaker A: Oh, who was that? [00:33:23] Speaker B: I can't remember the name for the life of me. [00:33:25] Speaker A: It was like baby metal. [00:33:27] Speaker B: No, no, it wasn't them. But yeah, I got a really random email from somebody. They were in Melbourne and they wanted to do some press shots and they wanted it to look like Melbourne but not touristy Melbourne. And I didn't really even think about it until I got there and I was like, oh, they. English is not their first language. So I'm gonna have to like, you know, use mannerisms and hand gestures to. [00:33:51] Speaker A: Try and stuff too. [00:33:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is all of that school photo stuff came back because it was. Sometimes that's what you had to do. I used to do kinder photos as well. So that was more like. Yeah, I've done that run around and document that sort of stuff with, with kids. So again you have to try and work on their level in terms of like a three year old might not be able to, you know, understand the way that you're speaking. So you have to kind of try and direct or turn into a game or you know, try and try and make it work. [00:34:20] Speaker A: It's actually a valuable lesson because a couple of weeks ago we went on the Beef up camera house birthday day out Beef up for those that don't know is the bright festival of photography. And we had a day where Justin and I went and captured some behind the scenes stuff. Check out the video on the channel too. It's awesome. So good. Justin did a great job of capturing footage and Matt Crumman's edited it music and put it all together. It looks amazing. So please check that out guys. It's on the channel now, but don't do it now. Later. I just completely forgot what my segue was. [00:34:58] Speaker C: About. Communicating, being able to communicate. Language barriers. Anyway, Dennis. Probably something better. Anyway Dennis, I'm old things just leave the school of light says reading People love it. Such a wildly valuable skill. I agree. [00:35:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:17] Speaker C: While we're doing comments, there's A few others in here. [00:35:20] Speaker A: Oh, I remembered what I was going to say. [00:35:21] Speaker C: David Miscarriage says I was almost a fan. He's a nick on. He's a nick on guy. Probably you've lost him. [00:35:30] Speaker B: I've got more than that, so. [00:35:32] Speaker C: Oh, I'm excited. So we've already talked gear and there's going to be later in the podcast, there's going to be a whole nother gear section where we talk about every single camera that you want. I'm excited. [00:35:41] Speaker B: We don't have time that you've got to catch a flight. [00:35:44] Speaker C: We'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. We'll go fast. Jim is in the chat. Good morning, Jim. [00:35:50] Speaker A: Hey, Jim. [00:35:51] Speaker C: How's it going? We've been. Jim's been rearranging our little lucky office trying to make a nice product photography spot. So I'm pretty excited for that. We're going to do some new product photography. [00:36:01] Speaker A: Can I come as well? Can I do something? [00:36:03] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:36:04] Speaker A: Book that in. [00:36:05] Speaker C: Maybe. Maybe we'll have a product from Melbourne to Bendigo. Maybe we'll have a product photography competition between the three of us and then see who the winner is. We'll let the chat decide. [00:36:16] Speaker A: Some skills. [00:36:17] Speaker C: I know, I'm excited for that. Guess what? I'm always the winner because I get the products photos from all three of us. So Jim says, how did we let a cannon shooter in? Fuji won't be happy. Greg, he also wanted to know, are you still shooting with two different bodies? Which I think you did kind of answer. But yeah, yeah. [00:36:38] Speaker A: So R5 and R5 2. [00:36:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, but they're not, they're not too different. You know, like the movie video switching is different and a few other little like the on off switch and stuff like that. But it's. [00:36:48] Speaker B: I keep stuffing up the on off switch because it's on the opposite side. That's the one thing that I'll. I'll complain about. I keep switching it into video mode and like, damn it. But yeah, that the layout is fairly similar. Like it's probably the closest that I've had two camera bodies in terms of physical layout, which is great. [00:37:08] Speaker C: And the R6 Mark 2 is very similar as well, which is good because there are a lot of people that run an R5 and an R6 just for high ISO and stuff like that. So yeah, it's good that they've kept them all quite similar. [00:37:22] Speaker B: Yeah, they. They are good at doing that. It's just I don't. Yeah, I try not to upgrade too often. I Don't. I don't love being like a gear. A gear snob like that. I upgrade when I need to. And. Yeah, when there's, when there's functions that I need. Like, I'm doing a lot more hybrid shooting at the moment, so sometimes that second body turns into a video, like, video photo sort of caliber. [00:37:43] Speaker C: Well, I'm going to write that down. We're going to talk about that later. [00:37:45] Speaker A: Get into that. [00:37:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:47] Speaker C: Because that is. [00:37:47] Speaker B: That is good old hybrid shooting. [00:37:49] Speaker C: Hybrid shooting. It's something I've had to learn over the past sort of five years or so. And I think there's still a lot of photographers that are very interested in it, but it's just figuring out, like, it seems like a big leap, you know, to get started. Anyway, we'll talk about that later. A few more comments, because they were coming in crazy. Pete Mellow says, hi, guys. Hi, Lucinda. Hi, Pete. [00:38:12] Speaker A: Pete's joining us in a couple of weeks, I think. [00:38:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:16] Speaker C: And Dennis says, just been on your website, Lucinda. How refreshing. What do you mean, refreshing? I. I mean, yeah, yeah. What? Explain. Elaborate, Dennis. [00:38:27] Speaker A: I kind of agree with Dennis. There's a lot of really good energy. You know, you scroll through the sites, through the images, even just on, you know, your homepage, and there's this beautiful energy and mix of color and lighting and, you know, there's a real masterful. It's a. It's a beautifully curated website. I have to be fair. [00:38:47] Speaker C: The homepage looks great. It really does. Like, straight away, you're like, okay, this person. [00:38:54] Speaker A: But you start looking at every face, trying to work out, oh, do I know that artist? Oh, wow, there's. What's in the. You know, like, it's. [00:39:01] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what happens at exhibitions, too. When I do an exhibition, everyone's like, oh, who's the. Who's this person? [00:39:07] Speaker A: That too. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:10] Speaker C: One final gear question before we, before we get out of the chat. David asked, auto ISO. [00:39:17] Speaker B: No, no, all manual. [00:39:19] Speaker C: Manual. [00:39:19] Speaker B: Literally all manual. Yeah. No, I can't, I can't risk. Can't risk going into auto ISO land because your. [00:39:26] Speaker C: The. The lighting changes so fast. [00:39:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:29] Speaker C: That the camera would be bouncing around and you'd lose your subject. [00:39:33] Speaker B: No. [00:39:33] Speaker C: Okay. [00:39:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:35] Speaker B: I also turned on the, the eye tracking in the R5 II and I hated it. Like the one where it tracks. It tracks your eye. [00:39:45] Speaker A: Oh, the eye tracking. [00:39:47] Speaker C: Autofocus point. Yes. [00:39:48] Speaker B: So I learned very quickly. I turned it on for two seconds and turned it off. And I was like, I don't think I can use this. So again, the friend that I talked to about gear and stuff, he was like, you're gonna love it. It's gonna be so good for you. And I was like, no, I hate it. And he's like, why? I'm like, because I again am splitting my vision in the photo pit. I'm looking through the viewfinder, but in the other eye I'm trying to pan as to what's going on on stage or what's going in on in the photo pit. So I don't get like hit by a flying crowd surfer or a security guard or is there someone coming off the stage? Like I'm constantly like looking all over the place. [00:40:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:24] Speaker B: So like it was just going wild. I'm like, I hate this. I'm sure it works for a lot of. A lot of photographers. It just doesn't work for me. [00:40:33] Speaker C: Did you find that you. Because I. I've played with it a bit as well and I can. It can work. I've never left it on for that long. [00:40:41] Speaker B: I think portraiture, like, it would be great. Yeah, yeah. Like live stuff. It was just not. Yeah. [00:40:46] Speaker C: I found that I scanned. I'm trying to do it here, but everything's backwards. I often scanned the edges with my eye of the frame and so I wanted it to stay steady on the subject that was in the right spot. But I'm looking at the edges and I'm looking at things so it's jumping around. Was that was kind of that sort of thing as well? So not just looking away from the camera but also scanning your frame. [00:41:08] Speaker B: Yeah, essentially it's just, just. It's just ping ponging across the screen. Because I'm just like constantly like, if you're photographing an acoustic artist that's like person at my stand with a guitar, you're not going to be scanning too much. [00:41:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:20] Speaker B: If you're photographing someone who has pyro and like. So North Lane, which is the shot that I gave you guys for the COVID image with all the pyro and stuff. Like, I knew where the pyro cues were. I knew in what songs it was happening, but I didn't know exactly where. There was also CO2 going on. There was crowd surface coming in. There was like security guards running through the pit that they're running around on stage. Like there's too much going on. Like it's just too constant for it to. Yeah. To lock anything on. [00:41:52] Speaker C: More gear talk for a second. [00:41:53] Speaker B: That's okay, fine. [00:41:55] Speaker C: Have you ever had hands on with the R3 or the R1. [00:41:59] Speaker B: Yes. So I, yeah, I, I, it's so heavy. It's so heavy. [00:42:04] Speaker C: Yeah. But there's a feature that I wanted to come into the R5 Mark II and I didn't do it. I was so annoyed. [00:42:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:10] Speaker C: Although I love you, Canon, so don't hurt me, but if you want to. [00:42:14] Speaker B: Give me one, it's fine. [00:42:15] Speaker C: Free cameras for everybody. [00:42:16] Speaker A: I'll cope. [00:42:20] Speaker C: Oh, we should. Did you, did you get, you won't use it because you use a dual strap, but it's just nice to have on your shelves and things. Did you get one of these with your R5 Mark I? With the, the, the limited edition leather strap with Kentaro's artwork on it? [00:42:40] Speaker B: To be honest, I don't even think I took the strap out of the box. [00:42:45] Speaker A: It would have got a lucky strap in the box. [00:42:46] Speaker C: It would, it would have been in like a limited edition box like this with a sticker on it and stuff. No, we'll get you one of those. I've got a few hiding. They, they went with Canon's first 1000 R5 Mark 2s in Australia. [00:43:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:43:04] Speaker C: So it depends on when you bought it as to whether you got one or not. But we'll send one down to sit on your shelf. Give a little, you know, little moment. [00:43:11] Speaker B: I've got some film cameras that would go, go perfectly on. [00:43:13] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Anyway, where was I going with that? The R3, there's a feature on it that I wish was on the R5 Mark II there. There's a Auto Focus AF on button on the back, but it's got an optical sensor that your thumb rests on. And so instead of using your thumb joystick to move the autofocus points, your thumb just slides over the top of it. Almost like if you. Whoops, wrong button. If your thumb, you know, if your thumb was resting over your mouse button and you move it around, it works like that. [00:43:46] Speaker B: And so I've got mine set up, I've got mine set up. So I swipe my thumb over the screen. [00:43:52] Speaker C: Ah, okay. How does that go to select focus? [00:43:56] Speaker B: Yeah, because I use single autofocus point. So I used to use the joystick on everything because I didn't have any other option. But once the R5 came in, you can set it up so on the right hand side. So you normally have your camera in your, your right hand. I'm actually left handed, so a lot of people don't know this and they go, I didn't know you were left handed. I was like, well, because they don't make left handed cameras. Although I do have a Pentax 67 that has a left hand group and I'm very excited about it. So yeah, you can set it up so that you can use your thumb to swipe across the LCD screen and it will move the autofocus point. So I have my camera up to my face and I'm just like my thumb is kind of on the screen moving the focus point around, which I find so easy. [00:44:41] Speaker C: There's two options for that. I think there's one where it's the whole screen and one where it's a designated sort of corner that's closer to where your thumb is. Which one do you use? [00:44:49] Speaker B: I think it might be the whole screen. [00:44:51] Speaker C: Oh, okay. [00:44:52] Speaker B: Yeah yeah. [00:44:53] Speaker C: So you just reach across. [00:44:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a battery grip on the R5. I just haven't got the battery grip for the R5 2 yet. Yeah, I just like it from a portrait shutter button point of view but also like battery life because again I if three day festivals I prefer to just have more batteries on me than to have to switch mid set. [00:45:16] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, just keep it going. Which is the other benefit of like R3 R1 and those big, big beefy batteries and the grip built in and stuff like that. [00:45:22] Speaker B: But yeah, yeah, I've just been so in. Although it doesn't really matter now but I was in like LPE6 land. Like I had so many spares and then they upgraded the. The battery so I've ended up getting more. But like I've just, I've. I've been LP E6 batteries since the start. Every single camera I've owned is. Is been that. So I've just built this collection of batteries. So yeah, it's. I was, that was maybe one deciding factor, honestly which sounds so stupid but like that was the one deciding factor for not going higher is that I just didn't want to carry those massive batteries around. [00:45:58] Speaker C: Yeah, I, I had five batteries for my R5 and then the R5 Mark II requires the one with the little, the little extra bit of graphic on it. Yeah, yeah, the P or whatever to be able to shoot the video codecs that I need and stuff. And I was like canon. Why, why did you Me? [00:46:21] Speaker B: Yeah, well so I, yeah I. As I said I bought the, the 5D 5D R5 to the day like the day of a festival like four hours before. [00:46:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:32] Speaker B: And then realized that those batteries would not even boot my camera. So I had to do that. 8aM 8am I drove to the other side of town to go and pinch some off this friend to last me the weekend. Because no one had them in stock when I bought it, so literally all of Australia was out of stock. I couldn't buy a battery to save my life. They were like, we can put you on a waitlist, but it'll be six months. [00:46:55] Speaker C: I was like, cool, yeah, yeah, that was the other thing. They didn't have it. Like, not just I needed to buy new batteries. They were like, sorry, we can't tell you why. [00:47:03] Speaker B: You just can't not. We don't have any. [00:47:04] Speaker C: Yeah, that was a bit of a let down. [00:47:07] Speaker B: Yeah. So a friend of mine came in clutch on that, he let me a couple get through the festival. But yeah, it was a little bit of annoying. But now we're all good. It's. Yeah, I just, I prefer with. With gear, I prefer things to be compatible. So if I'd gone up, then I'm carrying two lots of batteries. Yeah, that's a good point of stuff. So I just try and stay in ecosystems where things all work together. Because the other thing is I thought about like upgrading RF lenses, but then I'm like, But then I don't. If I don't have all of them, then I'm gonna have to adapt some and not others. And then I've got to remember to bring the adapter. And then like, because I just leave the adapters on. So I, I take my cameras, get stored body only in my pelican case, but they stay with the adapter on. And so I know when I pull everything out because sometimes I'll get a message like four hours before a show going, hey, can you cover this? And I like race home and I'm like, I just grab out of my pelican case, throw it in a camera bag and leave. So like, I need to know that things are gonna work. And so if I'd forgotten an adapter or a misplaced it or you try, you're trying to do that thing where you're switching lenses in the dark and you're like, oh shit, I didn't take the adapter off. Now you know, it just gets clunky. So to have sort of same ecosystem for everything at the moment sort of works for me. [00:48:28] Speaker C: It makes total sense. And. But unfortunately that downside means, yeah, if you go to RF lenses at some point, it's like, it's a big thing that you have to. [00:48:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. So that's why it's kind of been held off for a little, A little While longer until I can, until I can just hit the, hit the trigger and get a few. [00:48:46] Speaker C: Yep, yeah, it makes total sense. [00:48:48] Speaker A: Well, let's talk a little bit. Oh yeah, sorry, let's, let's jump into comments and then I want to talk a little bit more about some of your, your accolades and your involvement in the Australian music scene. I think we can build up a bit of a case for that Canon ambassadorship. [00:49:04] Speaker C: Exactly, let's do that. We'll do a half an hour on just like why you deserve free RF lenses. So Dennis, Dennis elaborated on the website. He says, I get inspired when I look at a body of work and it feels like, like I'm spending time with an explorer, variety of look and feel, experimenting with techniques, not 500 images that look and feel the same. Energy galore combined with gentleness when it's right. Lovely. [00:49:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:31] Speaker C: The refreshing part is we are smashed with feeds and galleries that are the same so often. [00:49:39] Speaker A: Very cool, very nice indeed. [00:49:43] Speaker C: Finally we've got Jeremy in the chat. Good to see you, Jeremy. He actually. Brilliant. Bought my R5 off me and he. [00:49:47] Speaker B: Said it's doing well. [00:49:48] Speaker C: So good to see you. I'm glad you're keeping. Keeping an eye on it, you know. [00:49:53] Speaker A: Anyway, I've got a couple of questions just about your education because it's always a topic that interests me because I was self taught, although not true. I learned film photography back in art school. It was like a year 13 course but other than that I've done, other than some workshops. I, I wasn't professionally or, sorry, I wasn't trained in photography at an institution. What was that experience like for you and what do you think was the biggest takeaway that's supported you in your career now? [00:50:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's a really interesting conversation because I, as I said, I used to teach, so I taught up until last year. I taught for six years and that was literally the only, only job that I've ever had that I needed the piece of paper to say that I was a photographer or that I had studied photography. That was literally the only job. No one's asking you for the piece of paper. They're asking you for your folio, they're asking for Instagram or your website. They're not asking you for the diploma of photography and photo imaging that I have. It's actually like stashed in a cupboard behind me somewhere. I don't even know where it is. But yeah, I think for me I was quite young. I was, I was fresh 18 year old and I needed that like just the theory of it. I just needed a little bit of guidance, a little bit of theory and to understand what was going on before then. Like it's that age old saying of like, you need to know the rules in order to break them. So I needed to understand how cameras worked and all of that component of it. I think it also built great discipline for me as well. Not that I wasn't disciplined, I was pretty good in school and stuff, but it was just going through the motions of, of getting what at the time I could have probably got off YouTube. That would have taken me 10 to 15 years, was two years of high intensity learning in an environment with people that also wanted to do the same thing. So I think that was the most important part. I think also then from my teaching background, I used to say to them the exact same thing like you were learning. Because they would always be like, oh, I could just learn this on YouTube. And I was like, well you can, but you can't ask YouTube questions. You can on this podcast, but like you can't, you can't ask point blank like, how much did you charge for this shoot? How, how did you do this? How did you know? They had face to face contact with me and other trainers who could explain to them exactly how things had worked in the industry. And so that was, that's one piece of. It is like understanding your camera, understanding the mechanics of how this piece of equipment works. But then you also have to go out and understand the industry. So understanding how to get to that point. Because a lot of students that I taught as also as well as like people that I studied with, I vividly remember and I tell this every time I like go and do a keynote or like speak at anything. My second year, the first day, the, the head trainer came in and said, one of you will make it and the rest of you will go back to your part time jobs. And that was how we started our second year. [00:52:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:56] Speaker C: Wow. [00:52:57] Speaker B: And I was like, wow. And I don't think they thought it was going to be me because I was the youngest in the class and I was doing something that was not necessarily considered photography and was told so that music photography is not a genre. I was pointless told that multiple times. But I still did it. Whoa. I still did it. And so I was, I was told like through high school that I needed to like when I said I want to do photography because I actually came from a background of. So I did the studio art a year ahead of myself, but My whole year 12 was outdoor ed sport, health, English and maths. I'm. I was big into my sport. I played sport like five nights a week. And I was really like, I want to go and do PE teaching because I had a really cool PA teacher at the time and I, like, loved her and she was great. And. And then about. I finished my studio art and then I was halfway through year 12 and I was like, I don't think I want to do that. I don't think I can do something for the rest of my life that is not creative in some way, because I've always been creative. And so I switched all of my preferences for study and I was like, I want to do photography. And they're like, yeah, but you're gonna have to get a real job. And so I had all these things mounting up. I had a media teacher that didn't want to teach me photography. I had the careers counselor telling me I had to get a real job. And then I went to study for two years and I was told that one of you will make it. And music photography was not a real genre. And then I got asked to come back to that high school and talk about what I was doing. I got asked to go back to my TAFE and talk about what I was doing. Like it did. It turned out fine in the end. But, yeah, I think that study kind of let me understand the mechanics of how to do things. I also learned where I studied. We did film for the whole first semester. Didn't touch a digital camera. [00:54:46] Speaker C: It's awesome. [00:54:47] Speaker B: I learned on film. [00:54:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:49] Speaker B: So I had shot some film. Like, dad had a Pentax K1000. I used to shoot with that on family holidays. I used to pinch that off him. I still have it now. It's on a shelf, like behind me here. And so I kind of understood some of it, but not all of it. I didn't really understand what the numbers meant and what shutter speed meant. And so I think film is a really like. And I say it to young photographers and to people I used to teach, like, film is such a good learning ground because everything is physical and mechanical, everything makes sense. Whereas you go to digital and it's not as intuitive because it's just numbers on a screen. Whereas there's dials and there's film and there's processes you have to go through in the film world. So I was shooting. My first assignment was like a large format portrait, Hollywood portrait in the studio. Had to process it myself. Never processed filming in my life. [00:55:49] Speaker C: Lit with flash in the studio. Yeah, really so the first thing they're like, here, take this, these, these lights. Figure out what the lights are going to do. [00:55:59] Speaker B: Yep, yep. The big old bellows extension like cloth overhead. Everything's flipped and upside down. You have to focus it pre. Pre shooting it because then you've got to slide the dark, slide the film cartridge in and then take the dark side out and shoot it. The model's not allowed to move because it's a really long exposure. [00:56:18] Speaker C: Wow. [00:56:18] Speaker B: It's almost like large, medium format and 35mil. Like in my whole first semester, I didn't touch a digital camera. [00:56:25] Speaker C: Throw you straight in the deep end. That's crazy. Yeah, they just push you out of a plane with a parachute here. Day one, really old parachute. [00:56:35] Speaker A: Yeah, like a World War II surplus. I, I just want to roll back for a couple of points that you made. And I think it's fair to say that I know you said that, you know, everything worked out. You had. The odds were stacked against you. You didn't have a lot of support, you didn't have a lot of people believing in your vision. And you said, you know, it worked out in the end, but that, that came at a cost of hard work and determination. You know, I don't know many young people that get halfway through year 12 and choose to shift focus because they have this personal epiphany that actually, you know what, I'm heading in the wrong direction. You know, when I was that age, I was. I don't want to tell you what I was doing at that age, but you know, let's just say I was scratching my head and bumping into things a lot. I had no idea what direction I wanted to take. I just like you, I knew I wanted to be creative, but I didn't know anything about it. And career guidance was against it. My teachers were against it and it took me a long time to find my footing. But for you personally, I think there's a lot to celebrate there. That not only did it work out in the end and you became a photographer for a genre that you were told wasn't a genre, but you have mastered it. You have accelerated your profile, your presence, your capabilities and your output. Not through it, just working out, but through effort and determination and I think a single minded focus on. I want to be a photographer and I want to be the best that I can be at this. And I think there's a lot of inspiration from that. [00:58:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I tackle things a lot like that. It's just. Yeah, I was like, right, I'm going To prove all these people wrong, I'm gonna get in there and do it. [00:58:10] Speaker C: Not a genre. [00:58:11] Speaker A: I'll show you. [00:58:13] Speaker B: Yeah, I'll show you. [00:58:14] Speaker C: That's awesome. [00:58:15] Speaker A: And I think it's fair to say you have. [00:58:19] Speaker C: I want to ask about. So this, the first job shooting the school portraits. Was it hard to get that job? Because I'm imagining, like, you go through a class of people who want to make a living with photography, and I'm imagining, like, do you remember how many people were in that class, roughly, or something? [00:58:36] Speaker B: Like, no. Oh, like my photography class. [00:58:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:41] Speaker B: So I did first year and second year. Some people didn't come over. So I did, for context, I did a cert 3 and 4 in photography and then a diploma in photo photography and photo imaging. And so some people didn't come over. I think we started with about 30. [00:58:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:58] Speaker B: I think we ended with about 15. [00:59:00] Speaker C: 15. And I just can't imagine there being 15 jobs available for photographers even. Even around Melbourne, you know what I mean? Like, for graduate photographers too. Like, hey, we're all. We've all just finished. All right, where are you going? [00:59:14] Speaker B: To work. [00:59:14] Speaker C: And I'm just imagining everyone being like, maccas, you know, like. And make it work. [00:59:20] Speaker B: And that's where that lecturer was. Right. Like, everyone just went back because it was. And I used to say it to my students, too, not in as harsher words, but like, you. You've learned all the skills. I've given you all the skills to point a camera in the right direction and learn lightroom and learn how to edit and all of those things. You are not going to get a knock on the door and say, hey, I want you to be my photographer for X, Y and Z. You have to now go hustle. Which is almost the harder part. Like, and some students didn't understand that. And I feel like some people that I studied with also didn't understand that, that the hard part was to actually get your foot in the door. And the hard part is the networking and talking to people and just being a good human sometimes is the. Is the deciding factor of you getting a job or not? If you have a good reputation in the industry of the, you know, the thing that you do and you can have recommendations from other people in that industry, that is sometimes the deciding factor of who they choose. [01:00:22] Speaker A: Yep. So I think that's amazing feedback and advice. [01:00:25] Speaker C: It's a great advice. How did you stand out? Do you think many people applied for that job with Mark shooting school portraits? Was that a tough job to get? [01:00:38] Speaker B: Yeah, he'd always have like a fair few interviews come through. I think the year that I got employed, there was four of us. So four of us on boarded. I think there was like 20 or 30 maybe interviewed at the time. [01:00:51] Speaker C: What made you stand out, do you think? What like. Or what sort of, what work did you put in to be like, I want that, you know, this, this is maybe isn't my dream. It's not music, but I want this job because I want to be working as a photographer. [01:01:03] Speaker B: I think Mark can see the potential in people and sees, you know, from any imagery. And I learned this from him to also take into. I used to do the interviews for the students coming into the course that I was teaching. And so you, you just get a photo put in front of you. It doesn't have to be anything in particular. It could be of whatever. But can that person point the camera in the right direction? Do they understand focal length? Do they understand depth of field? Do they understand shutters? But you can get that from a visual representation. I also think that I was, I was swayed because I was maybe the only person. I feel like I was born in the wrong era. I bought a physical folio. [01:01:48] Speaker C: Nice. [01:01:49] Speaker A: Well played. [01:01:49] Speaker B: I still make physical folios. [01:01:52] Speaker C: Okay. That's the answer. That's the sort of answer I was looking for. I was like, I feel like something that was extra effort that, that other people were like, well, I'm just gonna go and get this job. And they didn't get it. [01:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, and they grabbed their phone and that you scroll through their phone or. At the time, Instagram was like, again, I'm showing my age here. I graduated in 2012. So 2012 would have been when I did the interview. And so Instagram at the time, you couldn't upload photos from your camera. It was only from your phone. You could only upload photos from your phone at that point. [01:02:24] Speaker C: That's right. [01:02:25] Speaker B: So like Instagram wasn't a folio based place. I had a website. We had to build one through school, but it was not, you know, what it is now. And so we actually had a folio building class. And part of that was like printing a folio. I print through blurb a lot. And we had someone come in at the time and like talk us through sort of how that works. And now with the plugins in Lightroom, it's so easy to make a folio through there. And yeah, I still do it. I'm a little bit behind, let's be honest. But normally every year I print Like a big coffee table book of everything in chronological order so that I have the physical images. It's also really nice to see your work in print. I think two. Two years ago when I did the exhibition, I did a zine, which was the first, like, physical thing that I had made that I sold so people could buy it. And there's still. I think there's still a couple left. I think I have like two or three. But, yeah, it was the first physical thing that I made that people could then have in their house. And it was just a collection of work from that previous year that I loved. And so I have. I have one in my camera bag. I have one in my car. So when people ask me what I do and like, like, you know, there's. There's conversation about it, I will normally pull that out rather than my phone. [01:03:48] Speaker C: That's so good. [01:03:49] Speaker A: I think that's really clever. [01:03:50] Speaker C: So these, these printed folios, are they like, if you were going to, say, have coffee with a potential client, say a band that wants you to come and shoot specifically for them at an event or even a tour or something, would you bring your moat, like, latest book? [01:04:08] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of it nowadays is like, people find you on Instagram. That is my main. Like, that is where people are finding me. And then they'll send an email through there. Most of the time they're not looking at my website, which I find interesting. But, yeah, a lot of. A lot of the time I'll. I'll leave them. I also have, again, I'm very old school. I have postcard prints. So I have some. Some little postcard prints that I'll give people if I'm networking or whatever. Because I feel like I do have business cards, but they're a better impression if they've got a photo of what you do. So if you give that over, it's like, oh, that's that photographer that I met at that thing. I also have guitar picks. [01:04:48] Speaker A: I saw those. [01:04:49] Speaker C: I saw those too. That's cool. That's. That's a clever. [01:04:54] Speaker B: So musicians always forget their guitar picks and someone's like, oh, does anyone have a guitar pick? They're not expecting the photographer to be like, yeah, yep, I have one. So they're in my pelican case. And also stickers as well. I do stickers a lot because I. Yeah, everyone has pelican cases. We can slap a pellet, a sticker on a pelican case or a guitar case. So, yeah, who did you get? [01:05:18] Speaker C: Who did you get? To design your sticker or did you do it? [01:05:21] Speaker B: I have just recently redone my logo. It's a fellow photographer and graphic designer in Brisbane, female Josie, I think her name is, and just asked her if she would issue a design my updated logo. [01:05:38] Speaker C: Interesting. We need some stickers. We need some camera life stickers. I've been. I want to do like a sticker pack, you know, of like various photography kind of stickery things anyway and try to find someone that get. That gets photography that can do it, you know. [01:05:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I can. I can hook you up. [01:05:55] Speaker C: Yeah, that'd be nice. [01:05:56] Speaker A: While on the subject, Dennis has asked tell us a bit about your blurb experience. Keen as. [01:06:01] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, so it's definitely come a long way since I did my very first one. Paper stocks have improved. Shipping's really fast now too. So at the time I used to have to do it in InDesign because there wasn't these plugins that you could just spit out. Are you guys familiar with blurb at all? [01:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I've done a couple of photo books through blurb, both soft cover and hardcover, large and small. [01:06:25] Speaker C: I haven't ordered one, so I'd like. You don't have to spend a lot of time if you can just walk me through like if I had to go from photos in my Lightroom catalog to getting a book, what. What have I got to do? [01:06:34] Speaker B: There is a book tab up the top. [01:06:37] Speaker C: I've seen this. [01:06:37] Speaker B: Click on that and you. Then you can just spit out the like size that you want the pages and then they've got preset layouts that you literally just drag and drop your photos into. [01:06:47] Speaker C: That's it. [01:06:47] Speaker B: And then you upload it from Lightroom. [01:06:50] Speaker C: But I need a. I need a. A blurb plugin first. I need to download a blur plugin. [01:06:56] Speaker B: Or is it potentially. I haven't done it for a little while. But yeah, if you just go to the blurb website, they'll probably tell you how to do it. But yeah, yeah. [01:07:03] Speaker A: Also have their own proprietary design platform that you can. It's like browser based and you can. [01:07:08] Speaker B: Also just do it in InDesign as well still. Yeah, you can do it through any of those. But yeah, Lightroom is how I do it. [01:07:16] Speaker A: Sorry, sorry. [01:07:17] Speaker C: Dennis is curious about the build quality, I assume he means of the book itself. Like, like the COVID and spine and all that sort of stuff. You mean, Dennis? [01:07:24] Speaker B: I drag mine around to like every exhibition that I do and like I. I normally like the hardcover. I just like hardcover books more than I like sort of Paperback books. But yeah, the quality is definitely, like, gone up. In recent years, like, I've seen just so, so big of an improvement in paper stock and that sort of thing they used to do too, that you could do like a little sample. You could get a sample pack of all the papers if you're a tactile person like me and want to touch all the paper and like, look at how it, like, would look for photos. But they have really great descriptions on, like, how your photos will be rendered on certain papers. Because there's like pearl stock versus, like flat stock versus uncoated and all of those nerdy paper things. But they also have lots of sales on. So you try and like, wait for the sale to come through. [01:08:10] Speaker A: Yeah, they often have a 30%. [01:08:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:13] Speaker C: Right. Sign up to their mailing list kind of thing and just wait for the right time. Okay. [01:08:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Dennis. I did my first blurb book about, oh, it'd be 10 years ago from one of my trips to Tokyo. And I did hardcover and it's still in great shape. Like, it's. It looks brand new. So the quality. [01:08:33] Speaker B: Magazines. Magazines are also a great. A great shout too. They do the magazines and they're good to slide into your camera bag. I did a couple of those. I've now the zine that I made I did through Mixam, which are a printing press. They're actually based in Brunswick, I think, but that's more of a like high volume. So I ordered a hundred of them. So it worked out a bit cheaper. If you order one, it's like a hundred dollars. So that's. Yeah, it's. That's more of that realm. But they're great if you're going to print multiple of them. But yeah, the magazine through blurb, I've also done just as a, like a little folio to carry around. I definitely recommend it, like, to. To just get off your device. It's also like such a point of difference when you're talking to someone and you whip out a printed folio or book or something, or everyone's like, oh my God, wow. Like, I haven't looked through a coffee table book in such a long time. Which I can't relate because I have so many. But, you know, for other people it's very different. [01:09:35] Speaker A: It is interesting. I recently have been hunting for a good magazine. I used to love collecting magazines back in the day when, you know, before everything went online, you know, And I've been looking at magazines like Frankie, is it Jimmy? [01:09:51] Speaker B: Oh, Jimmy Hornets. [01:09:52] Speaker A: Jimmy. Jimmy Hornet, which is an Ad Free magazine. And I also just got one from. It's an interior design one that's. It's. They do like, small properties. Small. Oh, God. What is it called? Like, small interior design spaces. Like tiny houses and small Japanese houses and stuff. And I just got their token, the Japan version, Japan edition of their by annual magazine. And it's just beautiful to be able to flick through something that's physical. The paper feels and smells amazing. It's just such a completely different experience compared to just, you know, reading an article on a website or a blog or whatever it may be. [01:10:33] Speaker C: But it sounds like Rodney might have bought one. He said, I bought one. Love it. I'm assuming he's talking about the scenes. Maybe that's cool. [01:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah, he did. Yeah. [01:10:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Awesome. [01:10:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Now I. I just want to take a bit of a moment once again to build up your. Your portfolio for your. For Canon, to sign you up as an ambassador. [01:10:53] Speaker B: I really, I really love that you guys are really leaning in on this. I love it. [01:10:57] Speaker A: This is what we're here for. Is what we're here for. We're here to support you. So one of the. You, you've won a number of awards and you've also been nominated for a number of awards, but one of the things that I thought stood out to me was Beat magazine, which is a Melbourne. Is it like. Does it go to regional Victoria as well? [01:11:13] Speaker B: It does, yeah. [01:11:14] Speaker A: So it's a music magazine and it's been around forever. I used to pick up Beat magazines. I think was like, it came out every week and it would have all the events and it would have photos from last week's events and such a fun magazine to flick through back in the day. But you, you topped Beat Magazine's list of five females to know in the Australian music industry in 2020. 2020. [01:11:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:37] Speaker A: And that list obviously also includes musicians. [01:11:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:42] Speaker A: That is amazing. [01:11:44] Speaker C: You were number one. [01:11:45] Speaker A: Huge accomplishment. [01:11:46] Speaker B: Not number one, but not number one. [01:11:48] Speaker C: Top five. Top. That's it. [01:11:50] Speaker A: Justin, go easy. [01:11:51] Speaker C: Oh, no, you said. You said topped. I thought I was like, oh, my God. You were the number one that's in. It's insane. Regardless. Wow. [01:11:57] Speaker B: Of all. [01:11:58] Speaker C: All people in the music industry that do anything. [01:12:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:12:02] Speaker C: Wow. [01:12:03] Speaker A: And I guess was a big part of that that you. You created music from the burbs. [01:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:10] Speaker A: During COVID During lockdowns, the music industry really struggled. I know firsthand from. From talking to my friends friend Darren about it. You know, there was a lot of push from Australian musicians to do something to support the arts because everyone really, really struggled and a lot of artists disappeared from the scene altogether. [01:12:29] Speaker B: Correct. Yeah. [01:12:29] Speaker A: Because as well, yeah, mortgages have to be paid and, you know, kids need to be fed and if you're not. If you're not working gigs, there's. There's no money coming in. But. So tell. Talk to us a bit about music from the blurbs. What was the. What was the seed that created that little nugget of adventure? [01:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah, so I'm based in Geelong, so my lockdown rules were slightly lesser than, like, Central Mass Melbourne. And I was trying at the time to, like, I was really burnt out. I was really burnt out from the industry. At the point where we sort of went into all the lockdowns, I was kind of like thinking about just stopping doing music photography altogether. I was just. Just banging my head against a brick wall. And so the pandemic, not that we loved being locked in our houses, but it came at a good time for me to reset. And so, yeah, the, the lockdown laws were slightly different where we could visit people outside, outside in their front yards, like one on one. And so I was like, right, I want to do more video work. I want to understand how this works. I was teaching online, so I was kind of understanding, like, all the live streaming stuff as well. Like, I was getting my head around that. And I was like, this might be a good time for me to just pivot into something that's slightly different, like get some. Some video skills under my belt. I'd studied a little bit of video when I. When I did study, but it was like a time for me to kind of go, right, what can I do to keep myself occupied in this time that I'm not able to shoot? And so I started this project where I would go to musicians in my local area's house. We would film out in their front yard or their backyard, a little, like, live clip of them performing a song. And it would come out every Sunday night and there would be a series of photos and portraits that would go with that. And then that way it was a little bit of, like, this promoting of their music as well as, like, me learning video and understanding video editing and like, multiple camera angles and all that sort of stuff. So that was kind of. Yeah, something to keep my brain moving in what was a bit of a. Bit of a shitty time. [01:14:39] Speaker A: Yep. I think it's remarkable to see something, you know, to. To find a way to survive that wasn't purely about you. It was also about supporting the industry. It was about, yeah, recognizing that hey, just remember, guys, everyone's doing it tough. [01:14:55] Speaker B: And, yeah, it was helping share that story and sharing people's work. Yeah. And just trying to. I feel like at that time, too, everyone was really rallying behind their local scene, whatever that scene was, whether it was their local cafe or their local, you know, library or what. Whatever it was, it was. There was this really real sense of, like, being passionate about their local area. And so I was just like, well, how can I do that? In my own way. [01:15:24] Speaker C: I love it. That's a great idea. Do you remember what gave you the idea? Was it literally just the fact that you were like, okay, two people can be together outside. What. What can I do with that? You know? Do you remember how it evolved into. Into what it was? [01:15:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the. The whole concept of being able to visit each other outside, outside was a great motivator for me because then it also made sure that I was, like, going out and actually speaking to someone. And that might have been the only time I spoke to someone all week. But, like, it was good for just that. Like, check in with your friends as well, going, hey, how you going? Like, are you okay? Like, you know, how's life treating you? Like, and it was just like this normalcy that we wouldn't normally get. [01:16:06] Speaker A: Yeah, Yeah. I think one other accolade that I just want to touch on while we've got you. So in 2023, you gained. You were nominated as a finalist in the Australian Women in Music Awards photography category for music photography. And in 2023, you also crack a year for. You won the Ross Lipson Award for. Which recognizes and celebrates creative women in the Geelong region. [01:16:35] Speaker B: In 2024. I won that. [01:16:38] Speaker A: You won what? [01:16:39] Speaker B: Sorry, I won the Australian Women in Music Awards last year. [01:16:43] Speaker C: I was gonna say I thought I read somewhere that you won it, so I was like, oh, maybe I read that wrong. Oh, that's awesome. Nice trophy. [01:16:49] Speaker A: That's wonderful. [01:16:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it was very heavy. I didn't think about bringing it home. It's three kilos and I almost baggage allowance. [01:16:59] Speaker C: That's unreal. [01:17:00] Speaker A: That's amazing. [01:17:02] Speaker C: Well, congratulations. [01:17:03] Speaker B: Thanks. [01:17:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that's pretty cool. And now, recently, you held a solo exhibition of your work. And it's something that a lot of photographers aspire to. You know, for some, it's about expanding their business to the point where they can open a gallery. For others, it's about, you know, just creating an effectively running business. You've gone that step higher and a lot of us have dreamed of this, of holding your own solo Exhibition. Tell us about that experience. What was that like for you? And, and where did that start? To where it, you know, to where you got to a point where, okay, it's done, I'm ready, you know, let's pop the champagne, let's let everyone in. [01:17:41] Speaker B: I try to exhibit solo every two years. So I've done multiple solo shows in multiple different ways. So I think my first one was at the same place that retrospect 001 was held at Platform Arts in Geelong. And so I think that first one was 2013 or 14 maybe. So yeah, I try, I really try to exhibit every sort of two years. I sometimes do a lot of group shows as well. You can like if you go to my about page on my website, there's all my exhibitions that I've done. But I like, I built that from study as well. Like we used to have to exhibit a lot and so I really love printing my own work and like seeing it in print. A lot of my friends haven't seen themselves printed in a frame in an exhibition, so that's also a kick for them. But yeah, this retrospect was during COVID It would have been sort of that 10 year mark of my career and I was like, how do I, how do I commemorate that? How do I wrap that with a nice little bow and just, you know, do something? So there was a really last minute opportunity. I put an expression of interest into a gallery space at Platform again. And most of the time with an exhibition you have to have sort of a proposition for them and like explain and go through all the artist statements and all of those sorts of things. And that was already. I'd done that the year before thinking that in two years time I would do it. And yeah, then all of a sudden I had a last minute cancellation and they were like, can you do an exhibition in a month and a half? [01:19:20] Speaker C: Oh wow. [01:19:23] Speaker B: So I did it. But yeah, it was like two, over 250 pieces of work. I had a week to hang it and I was hanging stuff and putting labels up until about an hour before the opening. [01:19:40] Speaker A: Oh wow. [01:19:41] Speaker B: But it is a really great space because it was upstairs and they kind of had like these two staircases with this landing and I'd said to them, can I hang stuff on the staircases and like in all these different like crevices and stuff? And they're like, sure, you can do whatever. So it was not a traditional gallery space in that way. I bought in temporary fencing. So you know the temporary fencing that you put around, like, yeah, Job site, building. Yeah, or festival. And so I hung work on those temporary fencing that went through the middle of the gallery. I had Polaroids and on all sorts of like alternate processing, like cyanotypes and contact sheets and stuff, like, stuck to the walls. I had a full on, like what you would describe as like a band room. You know how they have all the band posters from previous shows when you walked in, that whole front wall was just covered in, like, band posters that I had shot and like covered head to, like head to toe, ceiling in. In band posters, gaff taped to the walls. I had like these big Perspex boxes with, like all of my media passes that I've collected over the years because I could still keep all of them. So, yeah, it was pretty. It's pretty crazy to get it happening in about a month and a half, two months, but it worked. It happened. I actually got really inspired. I went to the Andy Warhol exhibition in Adelaide a couple of months before and, yeah, there was some really great. I love going to art galleries and going in and looking and seeing how they display work. I love to do things in a little bit of an alternative way. I don't love just hanging frames on walls. So, yeah, I collected all of these, like, ideas and. And started to sort of piece those together. So, yeah, very creative. But, yeah, it definitely was massive. [01:21:34] Speaker C: That's a huge effort. [01:21:36] Speaker A: I just want to ask. The very first award that you've listed on your website was the Qantas Spirit of Youth Awards as a finalist. And you also had the High Tide Festival solo showcase in 2010. How old were you, if you don't mind me asking? I know mum said 17. That's pretty impressive. [01:21:57] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. [01:21:58] Speaker A: And so that was your first solo exhibition, was it? [01:22:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:02] Speaker A: Wow. [01:22:03] Speaker B: It was in, like, this little bakery in. In Torquay. [01:22:06] Speaker A: Yep. [01:22:10] Speaker C: The man himself, Mark Bluetooth. Lucinda's exhibitions have always been great, as is her work. Can't stay and watch, but looking for. Forward to catching up on your chat. Thanks for popping in, Mark. [01:22:20] Speaker A: Thanks, mate. We'll talk soon. Let's get you back on the show. [01:22:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Where to from here? I've got. I got a million questions written down, so I can. I can take this in whatever direction you want. [01:22:32] Speaker A: Fire away, boss. [01:22:34] Speaker C: All right, let's go with. [01:22:40] Speaker B: You really do have a million. [01:22:42] Speaker C: I've got. I've got a lot. I don't know which direction to go. [01:22:45] Speaker A: All right, this is around the size of your notepad. [01:22:47] Speaker C: This is an easy one. This is an easy one. I don't think it'll take too long. So you used to play sport every night of the week when you're in high school and stuff. Did you ever try sports photography or experiment with that as a potential career option? [01:23:02] Speaker B: I. I did. Like, I have a younger brother who I like. I'd take photos of him playing footy and cricket and stuff. Friends at the. In high school, I would shoot. Yeah, it. It wasn't. It wasn't something that sort of crossed my mind. It definitely. I think my skill set would, like, overlap a lot now. Yeah, I do go to the footy still. I follow Geelong, so I go to the footy all the time. But, yeah, I've never. I've never gone into that world. [01:23:30] Speaker C: Yeah, this is not. Not something that's really on your radar too much. It's not. It's not a work that. It's more of. I'm going to the footy to enjoy it. I don't. I'm not necessarily. [01:23:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:23:40] Speaker C: Okay. Did you. Was there what you would think of now looking back as a big break moment when it comes to maybe a particular show that you got to photograph or an artist that you worked with, where you were, like, it really felt like you were moving into another level of your career. Do you remember any moments that feel like that? [01:24:08] Speaker B: I. Not like one specifically, but as I said, like, after Covid. So, like, as I said, I was really burnt out, like, in 20. When was it? 20, 19. 20. 19. 20 20. I was just like, yeah, getting to a point where I was, like, not doing a lot of shows and there was things trickling in, but there wasn't heaps. And so, yeah, when the Pandemic hit, I was kind of like, okay, cool. Like, I. I have an imposed forced break. Like, I have to stop. And then about four or five months into the Pandemic, I was like, I. I don't know if I'll be okay if I don't get to do this ever again. Which was not the feeling I went into the Pandemic with. And so the very first show back was the Foo Fighters at GMHBA Stadium, now shooting for a publication. So I had first three songs, but that was my first gig back. I remember COVID testing in front of the. The label rep at the front gate. We had to COVID test in front of them to make sure that we're allowed in the photo. [01:25:13] Speaker C: Were you worried that you're like, you have no reason to be, but you were like, who knows? [01:25:18] Speaker B: Yeah, slightly. Again, I hadn't had it so I was like, oh gosh. Like, it was. Yeah, it was very nerve wracking. But I remember like just before they got on stage, the heavens open and it's piercing down rain and I'm just like, oh my God, this is the best feeling ever. Like, this just. Yeah, it was so much energy. Like it was the first gig back in Geelong. The place was packed. It's just all my friends were there and they're like, oh my God, I saw you in the photo pit. Like, it was just like that. That feeling again was like, oh, yeah, okay, we're back, we're back. And it's, it's gonna happen. Yeah. [01:25:56] Speaker C: Like, is. Are these the. Is this the gallery? [01:25:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:26:01] Speaker C: You just. [01:26:02] Speaker B: Yeah, there might be. That's a different one. But yeah. [01:26:05] Speaker C: Oh, it is too. Okay, never mind. I thought it was, I thought it was gonna loop through the. Yeah, I haven't used the Internet before. I'm figuring it out. [01:26:15] Speaker B: But yeah, yeah. So it was, it was a pretty special moment to come back now. It was a little bit on again, off again after that. But I, for whatever reason, like, everything started to fall into place. Like I was getting booked directly by artists that I had never worked with before. I feel like, covered again. We were talking about like, people had mortgages to pay, people had children to feed, they had to get quote unquote, real jobs. And so I feel like everyone in the industry actually appreciated a lot more that they had to pay for these things because a lot of, A lot of the earlier work that I did was unpaid. You didn't get paid to shoot for publications. So I was, Yeah, I was not shooting a lot of paid work. I was. A lot of local stuff was paid, but not a lot of the biggest stuff was. And so all of a sudden after Covert, like, everyone I think, had this newfound appreciation for art. Art in different ways. And they're like, no, we need to respect the fact that this person is trying to make a living out of this and so we need to pay accordingly. And so just. Yeah, there was a few like, things trickling in and then more things came of it and then more and like to the point now where I'm. Yeah, I'm already sort of almost booked out for next month and like there's just. I've just got almost too much work, but just. Yeah, that switch flipped and I didn't know why that was. And I feel like that maybe it comes down to that, that everyone sort of was a bit more like aware of everyone else's situation in the world. [01:27:45] Speaker A: But I think also, I think, you know, listening to your story and having read your bio and hearing you speak today, I think there's a real element there of that. You're a natural survivor, and you came through the other side of COVID where many didn't. Still clinging to or not clinging, because that sounds desperate, but still knowing the direction that you wanted to take. Even though you had some wobbles at the start of COVID because you were burnt out. It happens to everybody, you know, then coming. Emerging from that situation, even. Probably even more determined to stick with the line. The lane that you've chosen, in your own words, the lane that you've chosen and. And. And make it worthwhile is. I think that's really commendable. I just want to read out, just for the folks listening and watching along, some of the people that you've had the opportunity to photograph. So we've got Sir Elton John, Ed Sheeran, who should also be a sir in my books. Foo Fighters, obviously. Fleetwood Mac, Lauryn Hill, Liam Gallagher from Oasis. Is that right? Molly Meldrum and Iggy Pop. You've also photographed. Oh, gosh, a whole bunch of people, including Offspring. Paul Kelly, Australian artist, Human Nature. Yeah. An impressive list of. Of. Of clients there. Well done, you. I say, I think that that itself is also a sign of success. [01:29:12] Speaker C: Have you. Have you ever got to meet anyone that was so. That you were a big fan of. And. And if so, did you. Have you ever had one of those, like, we're not worthy moments out of Wayne's World, you know, when they're like. [01:29:30] Speaker B: We suck? [01:29:31] Speaker C: Is that there's a lot of. [01:29:33] Speaker B: There's a lot of times where I've, like, yeah. Met people. I'm gonna. I'm gonna really name drop here. Okay, so we're just gonna. [01:29:39] Speaker C: Let's do it. [01:29:40] Speaker A: This is your show, kiddo. Go for it. [01:29:42] Speaker B: I photographed the ARIA Awards a couple of years in a row. And one year I went to the after party with the editor that I was shooting for, and we somehow ended up having beers on the rooftop of the Star Casino at the Arias after party with Molly Meldrum. I was like, 21 at the time, and I got home at like 2am or something, and I messaged my dad the next day, and I was like, oh, hey. I just, like. I had had drinks with Molly Meldrum last night. He's like, what? What? [01:30:13] Speaker C: So random. [01:30:14] Speaker B: Yeah, but, yeah, there's been a lot of times where I've, like, worked with artists that I've, like, ended up becoming Friends with Gaga Views is another one that I used to shoot. Like in their very early career, like, they were playing to Northcott Social Club. Not sold out. Now they're, like, living in London and they're doing amazing things. They're playing huge festivals and like. Yeah, I used to just go and hang out with them after the show and have, like a drink in the. In the beer garden and catch up on life. And yeah, it was just very normal for me that. Yeah, yeah. [01:30:46] Speaker C: Not just like humans, they're just humans. Just crazy music humans. [01:30:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:53] Speaker C: So talk to me a little bit, or talk to us, all of us, a little bit. About shooting. No, just me shooting for publications versus working with artists directly. How do you build the relationships with either the artist, like all the publication depending on. On. On what you're trying to do? How does all that dynamic work in your industry? [01:31:15] Speaker B: Yeah, so there's like, a couple of ways that you can get access to shooting shows. So obviously, like local level. You can just reach out to an artist and be like, hey, I see you're in town. Do you want to, like, do you want some photos? You know, bridge that gap? The one way that most people get into it is shooting for a magazine or a publication. Most those magazines are now online, but I used to shoot for Beat magazine. I used to shoot for the Music Forte magazine as well. Lots of different publications back in the day. So I, When I was studying with. I think I was on, like, 12 different, like, publications. And so you would send a folio of your work, you would show that you could do the thing that you were saying you could do. And either they would send out an email like every Monday, or you would request shows. And so there was kind of like a. Like a honesty system kind of vibe where they would put your name against shows and then they would get a reviewer for that show. They would then reach out to the PR person. They would then come back and say, yay or nay, here's the contract. And then they. They would let you into the show for first three songs. Sometimes it was less, sometimes it's in the photo pit versus the sound desk. So the photo pit is the. The part at the very front of the stage between the stage and the crowd. The sound desk is where the desk is, and it's normally like way at the back of the. The venue, which is the less ideal place to shoot because everything, perspective wise, is very flat and so everyone's shots look exactly the same. But yeah, it just depends on the artist as to what their rules are. But then, yeah, an artist or a manager may reach out to you and say, hey, we've got this show, we'd like to bring you on board to shoot for us. And so, yeah, that's normally. So magazine publication stuff is normally unpaid versus artist stuff, normally paid. And then so you have full access. You typically get an accessories or AAA pass. So you can get on stage, you can be in the photo pit, you can shoot from the crowd, you can shoot from the sound desk. So you normally have the full set to cover what you need to cover. Which is great because then you also clear out the photo pit after the first three songs. So normally I'll try and shoot from different vantage points for the first three songs to let all the media photographers shoot what they need to shoot. And then I'll get in the photo pit and then I'll shoot from there or on stage or, you know. [01:33:45] Speaker C: So you, you would have some sort of different, I don't know, wristband or. Oh, it'll be a lanyard thing. [01:33:50] Speaker B: Yes, a lanyard or a sticker or. [01:33:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So. Because otherwise they'll try and boot you out with the other 3,000 photographers that are in the pit. [01:33:57] Speaker B: Sometimes they still try to beat you out. They don't. You're a person with a camera. Get out. And it's like, oh, I'm shooting for the artist. And then they're like, okay, cool. Normally I try and speak to the security guard beforehand. So typically I'll. Sometimes I'll go to the show with the artist. So sometimes I'll get in a van with them and I'll document sort of the behind the scenes stuff and then we're kind of there for sound check and, and all that sort of stuff. And I'll normally try and make a point of like saying to the security guard, hey, I'm shooting for this band. Like, you'll probably see me sort of running in between and like, okay, cool. Like, no worries. And most of the time they won't, they won't bother you because they know that you're supposed to be there. So yeah, it's just again, being respectful of. They've got a job to do, you've got a job to do. So just explaining things in a calm fashion to be like, even if they do stop you in the middle of shooting, it's like, oh, sorry, like, here's my past. Like I'm, I'm meant to be here. [01:34:46] Speaker A: Okay, cool. Can I ask a question, please? [01:34:48] Speaker B: Yes. [01:34:49] Speaker A: I'm not a canon photographer, but I do have a Question. So Lucinda, what about away from the stage? Like, you know, when a band is say recording an album or maybe they want some images for their own website, their own social media or perhaps even for an album cover. Is that the sort of work that you will also get involved in? [01:35:08] Speaker B: Yeah, so I've just talked about some. [01:35:10] Speaker A: Of that away from the stage stuff. [01:35:12] Speaker B: Yeah, I've just done two portrait shoots this week. One of them, both of them are local artists that I work with. One of them, I was up at Mount Dandenong at like 9. 00am it was like 4 degrees. And yeah, we were shooting some press stuff, some. Just some promo shots for them because they've got a release coming out so they need some new press, updated press work. So I did that. So that was all on location stuff, which I haven't done a lot of, to be honest. Lately a lot of it has been studio work, a lot of in studio on paper roll, seamless rolls. But yeah, and then over the weekend I actually went away up to the Mastodon Rangers and we shot a lot of additional work or content pieces for an artist who's also doing a release. I've already shot the album artwork for that about a year ago. It's coming out in the end of June so like it's been like 12 months in the making. But we're shooting just some additional content pieces. We're shooting some video stuff because again like musicians are expected to be content creators and they don't love that, you know, neither do, neither do we. But yeah, so I was just helping them sort of like produce some content. So just. Yeah, like lip syncing to camera so that they can put the track over the top of it to like snippet it down for tick tocks and social media stuff and just shooting just some general contenty things. But yeah, I've also been doing a lot of, yeah, studio work, press work and that sort of stuff as well. [01:36:46] Speaker A: Very talented. [01:36:47] Speaker C: So is it possible to make a living as a live music. I know it's possible, don't get me wrong. Like I know there's one person or, or whatever, there's always someone. But is it, is it possible, is it realistic to make a living as a live music photographer in, in 2025? [01:37:05] Speaker B: I think purely live. No, like you only have so many days that you can shoot and only you can really only shoot one gig a day. Now it doesn't. I've done multiple a day and it's not fun from opposite sides of Victoria. But yeah, like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sundays Are your gig days normally? Now there is exceptions to that rule. I shot a Monday night gig like two weeks ago, but you have limited days that you can be working and I don't think just live is sustainable. I think you have to have those other income streams. I am full, full time freelance now. I got made redundant from my job last year, so I'm full time freelance. I do a bit of social media management for a local business. I do three days a week, so that obviously helps supplement my income. But then it is. As I said to you guys before we started the podcast, I've been doing a lot of press work lately, so I haven't been shooting as much live stuff. Winter's always a funny time for gigs. No one really wants to go out. It's too cold, it's wet, it's all the things. So a lot of artists are gearing up to release when the weather's a little bit nicer and festival season comes around and that sort of stuff. So it's the pre production almost of, of doing that sort of stuff. So yeah, a lot of press work at the moment. But yeah, a lot of great. I work with Appra Amos, who are a big body for the music industry, so I work a lot with them as well. So doing some networking events and different recording sessions and those sorts of things as well. So more of that event stuff. I did the um, music awards a couple weeks ago at the Melbourne town hall. So those sorts of events supplement sort of the live scene but are not too far from what it is. [01:38:51] Speaker A: Yep. [01:38:53] Speaker C: So that, that's actually perfect. You said you do a little bit of social media management for another business. I have written down here Instagram tips for photographers because your Instagram is pretty active and you said you're actually meeting and booking and working with artists. They're discovering you on Instagram. [01:39:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:39:15] Speaker C: Help us. Help me how? What, what help? Help. What do. What do you need to do as a photographer on Instagram these days? To be discovered, to be seen, to get out there. [01:39:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I think a lot of like, like my feed is not that active. I feel like I had literally had a message from someone the other day going, oh my God, you are literally everywhere on my newsfeed. I'm like, how? I'm not. I don't feel like I'm that busy. Like I'm always posting on my stories and I'm always like highlighting what I'm doing or what I'm working on. But I think the things that I've been doing a bit of consulting for musicians as well on social media. I think being authentic and like genuine about what you're sharing or what you're doing, but also sharing like processes. Like I feel like the photography industry is really gatekeepy and like no one wants to really share information. I like get messages all the time. I just like blurred out, like here's like 100 things that I would, you know, tell you, but also I don't know the answer to this particular question, but here's someone that does like, you know, just giving people time. I find it really interesting too. Like I've posted, I've been trying to be more active on TikTok lately and just like talking, just talking about what my industry looks like and what the behind the scenes of it looks like. Because for a lot of people that's quite interesting. Which we don't think about as photographers talking to other photos. Like we, we do. Like, I find everyone else's stories and how they work and that sort of stuff interesting but like to the people, to the people that are hiring you, like, they find that really intriguing as to like how you've got to that point and how you work and, and how maybe difficult some things are that they don't even know about. Like, I remember speaking to a musician friend who I'd been photographing since I started and he always used to do this thing where he'd jump off a drum kit or he'd jump at a particular point and I'd always nail it, like always. And he's like, how do you do that? And I was like, well, because in this song you jump at this beat and you do this at this beat and you stand this way and you do this and then you walk over there and you do this. And he's like, what? What do you mean? I was like, because you, you do the same thing every show, whether you've rehearsed it or not, just intuitively that's what you do. And so I know where to be to get the shot. But like that, that frame of that thought process is not something that someone that's not in my industry knows. And so they find it really interesting to hear. [01:41:55] Speaker A: It's also pattern recognition, which not everyone does. [01:41:58] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So I think, yeah, for socials it's just like sharing those authentic like stories and genuine stories about like what you do and your processes and yeah, just things that you're passionate about. [01:42:11] Speaker C: Okay, so that's the broad overview, the thousand foot view, the strategy. Be authentic and share your business process. Now help us Tactically, like, what do we actually do? Is there any examples on here that. That we can see or, like, you know, is it reels as you said it. There's a lot of stories. Do you film stuff with your phone? Do you use a GoPro or you're shooting, like, what. What is it that you're doing that allows you to create content for social media, but you're still actually working at the same time as well? [01:42:45] Speaker B: It's really. It's really, really hard as a music photographer to record yourself doing the thing that you're doing because you're recording for somebody else. So I use some tools. So, like the. There's a couple of angles there that you can see. The one that says I can do a lot in 15 minutes, which we probably don't want to share for sound purposes because it's copyrighted music. So there's also some other videos and reels that you can see. On my socials, I have the meta Ray Bans. [01:43:21] Speaker C: Oh, really? [01:43:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So I. A lot of the time will shoot. They're, like, aggressive. I don't actually. They're here. They're pretty aggressive looking. [01:43:32] Speaker C: Put them on. Hang on. [01:43:35] Speaker B: They're very like. While we do this, they're blue light ones because I don't need to wear glasses, but there's a little camera here. [01:43:43] Speaker C: Let's just. How do I. Oh, I can't. [01:43:45] Speaker B: Hey, everybody. [01:43:46] Speaker C: I don't know how to make you big. Let me just do. [01:43:48] Speaker B: That's okay. We don't know. Yeah, look at this little camera. There's also speakers back here which are really great. But, yeah, there's a little camera and there's a little button and so I can shoot whilst wearing them. So. That's insane. Yeah, they're quite big and they're quite bulky. They look a bit funny. But I. I have been shooting with these before and no one has realized, like, I've shot a whole festival and then someone's seen me. Like, how the hell did you shoot a whole, like, recap video whilst you're shooting? I was like, I was wearing glasses. And they're like, what is. [01:44:21] Speaker C: Is there any. Is there any footage that we can see on your Instagram here? Just. I just want to see what it looks like. [01:44:27] Speaker B: Yeah, if you click on the Reels tab, that's probably the easier way to find. Find it. [01:44:31] Speaker A: I'm on the left, Justin. [01:44:33] Speaker C: I'm getting there. I'm getting there. No, so keep scrolling, Keep scrolling. [01:44:42] Speaker B: What one can I show you? Yeah, like the. The Steven Sanchez one. The One you can. The one next to the red backdrop. [01:44:51] Speaker C: Oh, this one. [01:44:52] Speaker B: That one. Yeah. So there's a little bit of footage there. So this is all shot with my Ray Bans and then it just flips up the photos of what I've shot. [01:45:01] Speaker C: I love this way of just having a clip and then going to photos. I've never thought of that. I've always thought that a reel needs to be like a lot of video and a lot of editing. [01:45:11] Speaker B: No, it can just be photos, like flipping up on a screen. That can. [01:45:15] Speaker C: But you use the clips at the start to hook people in with some video content. And then you're like, here's what I created. [01:45:20] Speaker B: That's what I did. [01:45:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:45:22] Speaker B: Because it's too hard for me to shoot like whole sets of stuff. I used to like mount a GoPro to a hot shoe, which works, but it's like a little bit bulky. Also I need the hot shoe now because I'm shooting lots of other stuff. The studio stuff is a little easier because I can just set up a camera and like shoot behind the scenes stuff. But yeah, the Ray Bans are definitely helpful. [01:45:47] Speaker C: So are they expensive? So I've got so many. I've never met anyone that owns them. [01:45:53] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. That's normally what happens. I think they're about 4 or $500, which if you think about it, GoPros are about the same price. I've also got a GoPro, but like it's just so much more convenient for me. And again as very niche for like, for my specific purposes of like, I can't, I can't set up a phone in the photo pit to film me shooting because that's a hazard. So. [01:46:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:46:20] Speaker B: But I can't in. So I normally will ask if I've got friends at a show, I'll sometimes ask them to shoot some little clips of me just so I've got some context video of. And I keep reusing it. But yeah, the, the Ray Ban thing is a really nice way to see a point of view of what a photographer would. It's like. It's almost like a, like a video game. Like you're seeing a point of view of. [01:46:43] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I've done. I've done a heap of POV like photography videos. I did one a day for 30 days on YouTube. But I had to use. Yeah. Either. [01:46:53] Speaker A: Or. [01:46:54] Speaker C: I ended up coming up with this crazy contraption. I don't have it here. That holds one of those DJI OSMO pocket gimbal things. [01:47:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And it holds that's what my webcam is. Currently. I've got one of those as well. [01:47:04] Speaker C: They're great. But when you. When you're walking down the street, you know, in Bendigo, which is a bigger town, but it's not a big, big town, you feel pretty. There's a lot of, you know, like, you feel like everyone's looking at you because you've got this, like, wiggly gimbal on your chest. And I'm like, I don't know. It makes me feel uncomfortable. So I don't know. Are there any other? Like, what other. So if anyone was going to look at these things, any advice, any guidance of, like, what's. What's good about them, what's bad about them? [01:47:36] Speaker A: Justin's asking for himself right now, not. [01:47:38] Speaker B: For anyone else's trip. He's about to, like, will. [01:47:42] Speaker A: He probably will. [01:47:44] Speaker C: Well, I don't know. I just. I don't want to look like that guy. [01:47:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So I don't need to wear glasses, but you can actually get them with your prescription put in them. So I just got the ones that you've got on screen with the blue light. For me, you can get them in sunglasses as well. But for I'm shooting inside most of the time at night, so it would look real silly if I was wearing sunglasses in the photo pit. So I got them as blue light glasses because I can also use them when I'm editing. Well, not so much when I'm editing, just like admin sort of vibes. But, yeah, at the time I bought them, there wasn't as many styles. I have Wayfarer sunnies, so I kind of knew that the shape would look good on my face anyway. But, yeah, they. They came out with. So you only used to be able to film for like 30 seconds at a time. Now they've upgraded the firmware, so you can do about three minutes at a time. And it goes automatically to your phone. So literally, like, you open the app and it just automatically is downloading to your phone. [01:48:42] Speaker C: I like that. [01:48:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it's wild. [01:48:44] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's as if you've just filmed it on your phone, but you're hands free and it's on you, but you don't have to, like, transfer and do all that sort of stuff. And just three minutes and then. So only three minutes. Or you can do more. Like, how does that work? Like, how many clips could you do with one charge? [01:49:01] Speaker B: I don't know. I don't. Oh, I very rarely charge them. Really? Yeah, yeah, they do have a charging case. So the charges, it's like your AirPods it like charges when you put in the case. But yeah, they are a great little tool that I try and chuck in my camera. This is why I have to have less lenses is because I've got all these random little like content creation bits in my camera bag as well. But yeah, so it's a great way to sort of, yeah. Get that point of view thing happening. But yeah, also like you should get. [01:49:34] Speaker A: Some of the artists to wear them. [01:49:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I have thought about that actually. [01:49:38] Speaker C: Imagine, yeah the POV of like being a famous artist on stage would be so good. [01:49:47] Speaker A: Mind blowing. [01:49:48] Speaker C: Yeah, imagine the drunk like I mean this. Yeah, they've probably done it. People probably. [01:49:52] Speaker A: We'll just keep it amongst themselves. [01:49:53] Speaker C: They're just a drummer. People probably strap gopros to drummers heads all the time. Doesn't matter. They're in the back. Yeah, yeah. But yeah that, that's so cool. Anyway, that's amazing. [01:50:04] Speaker B: Finding ways to make content, not feeling like there's a barrier. Like I definitely find it hard to live stuff. Like I've got so much footage of me shooting in studios and me doing like just random portraiture shoots. But yeah, the live stuff is really hard for me to get content because I'm just actively like in that brain space. [01:50:24] Speaker A: I think that's one of the things that's so compelling about your Instagram feed is that it's not just you putting up images of the people that you photographed or the events you've been to or whatever it may be. There's that interpersonal stuff threaded throughout your whole feed of here I am doing this and, and oh look here, I won an award. Imagine, you know, I read one where you talked about, you know, in a matter of hours I'm going to find out or weeks or whatever it was that I'm going to find out that I'm redundant and I'm going to. This is going to be my full time thing now. And you know, there's the real, there's a real sense of connectedness with anyone that's, that's viewing your page that it's not just here I take pretty photos but here I am as a person and a photographer and a creative and here's my story whilst I capture all these stories. I think it's a really lovely mix. [01:51:12] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks. [01:51:14] Speaker C: So finally on Instagram, before we move on to any other topics, we can squeeze in at the end of the show. So is there anything. So basically what I'm hearing is I should post More I should document a little bit of what I'm doing but don't feel like I need to make these super high production reels that we're filming for hours and doing a heap of edits. It can just be a quick little clip and then the photos I took. [01:51:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:51:38] Speaker C: Is there anything like best bang for your buck? Is there anything that you sort of tried on Instagram where you've been like it's probably not worth doing that. You know it's, it's. You don't get a lot out of it. The time and the effort wasn't worth trying it or do you not analyze it in that much detail? [01:51:57] Speaker B: It depends on the, the person I think which is a really shit way to answer the question. But it really does. Like I do social media management for little like a vintage business so it's not even like in what I do but that works differently to then how I post personally. Like times are different. Like I will normally try and post like overnight because most of musicians are looking at their phones at that point in time whereas the business that I do like at 7am went before people are going to work like the timing is different, the content is different. The other thing is that I consume a lot of content and I consume in a different way to most in the ways that I am actively looking at trends and actively looking at things happening in socials and how I can swing it to make it make sense in my industry. [01:52:52] Speaker C: I wondered that because I saw one. [01:52:54] Speaker B: That said so the one that we were talking about with the like in seven days I'll find out that I'm made redundant from my 9 to 5. So that was a trend. That's audio was a trend that was like I thought I found out like there's a life changing moment. And so then I go right, I've got the like without even thinking I was like oh well that happened two weeks ago. Like I've, I've got the, I've got the footage, I've got the thing so you know just piece it together. So there's a lot of like again TikTok is a place where I find a lot of that sort of content and there's a lot of pages and stuff that will create like this is a trending sound and this is what you should put with it. So like here is the caption and here is sort of the general idea of what the content could be. So there was also one, the Sabrina Carpenter song called Please Please Please have we heard that song? Is that familiar? [01:53:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I Don't know, can't remember. [01:53:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So the. The lyric is just, please, please, please. And so I was like, oh, I. I've got such a great concept for this. And so a lot of people were like, putting up the song and going, please, please, please do this, don't do that. So I was like, please, please, please stop shaking your Polaroids. I'm an active Polaroid girly. I have a Polaroid camera tattooed to the back of my arm, and every single time I take a Polaroid of someone, they're like, you have to shake it. I was like, do not. Do not shake the Polaroid. Put it in a dark place where it's warm and let it process and do not shake it. But so then I went. I was like, read the caption. And then in the caption, I explained why you don't shake a Polaroid. And that went viral. It had like half a million views in about a week. And I was like, what on earth? Like, it was just me standing in my bedroom just spitting out a Polaroid and. And shaking it. That was it. That was just. It was just that there was no photos, there was nothing attached to it. But because it was relatable and it was informative, people were engaging with it. [01:55:08] Speaker C: That's awesome. [01:55:09] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. [01:55:11] Speaker B: I'm absolutely picking out trends. [01:55:13] Speaker C: Okay. Picking out trends, which you're getting. So you're getting the Trends mostly from TikTok or. A lot of the times. [01:55:19] Speaker B: Yeah. All reels. Fades as well. Like, it just depends. Like. [01:55:23] Speaker C: Yeah, but you're finding Instagram is still the. The core of sort of where. What's generating the. Maybe the dis. Like inquiries and things like that. Most of that's through Instagram still. [01:55:35] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm getting a lot of messages about. Yeah, I'll get. Hey, saw your. Found your work on Instagram. Like, that is the opening line of the email. [01:55:42] Speaker C: Okay. [01:55:43] Speaker B: So I know a lot of my work comes from there, and I think you think about it too, as a lot of people in my niche, they're using Instagram as a search engine. They use it like Google. [01:55:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:55:58] Speaker B: So they're looking for Melbourne Music photographer, which is all through my keywording of all of my stuff. So my. I'm the first thing that pops up on Instagram when it says Melbourne Music Photographer. [01:56:10] Speaker C: Wow, that's cool. [01:56:12] Speaker B: So then. So then everything's kind of coming through to me. They're like, oh, well, I found them like. And I think too, like, I rate pretty highly if you type in Melbourne Music photographer in Google as well. Like I'm on the first page. [01:56:24] Speaker A: So again, that's no easy task these days. [01:56:26] Speaker C: No. [01:56:27] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's also, it's just like learning how to keyword and learning how to do that. Like I made my website myself. I do all this SEO backend of stuff as well. Like it's just learning how to integrate those things. And again, maybe I'm just really nerdy and that's. That, that's my jam and understanding all of that. [01:56:44] Speaker A: But it's another superpower. [01:56:46] Speaker C: It's that. But it's also, Google does recognize, like you've put a lot of work onto your website. You've done a lot of great work. You know, it's like there is also that. So you can't just like you can, I mean companies do try and like hack SEO and stuff, but you also just need to do it for 16 years and build, you know, build a very big profile. And then Google's like, oh, this person's very relevant in this industry. And that, that is also a big part of it too. Quick question from Dennis Smith. Is there a dream artist you haven't shot but would love to. Who is it? [01:57:20] Speaker B: Taylor Swift? Oh, I got really close. [01:57:24] Speaker C: Did you really tell us what happened? [01:57:27] Speaker B: Oh, well, I, I was, I was the photographer for the publication last year or last year, the year before I got in and they're like, yep, if, if we get a media pass, it's yours. And she didn't have any media in, in Melbourne, so I didn't get. [01:57:41] Speaker C: So. So sometimes we do a show with zero media in because she doesn't need so many shows. Yeah, profile. I mean she's got a, you know. [01:57:52] Speaker B: But she normally has Getty photographers document the whole set. So there is artists that like bigger artists that don't have a. She doesn't have a dedicated photographer. She has like a team of Getty that photograph it. So sometimes the images will be supplied for reviews and stuff. So sometimes they just won't give out photo passes because that's additional staff that they need to put on. And like you have to get escorted in and escorted out of the, out of the venue as well. So there's like extra pieces to the puzzle that they have to put on. So yeah, sometimes they'll just say, no, we're not doing media and. Or they might just do photo. Like they might do photos on the first stop of a tour. Like a lot of artists do that if they really like. Because some it can be off putting if there's a lot, if there's 30 photographers running in the photo pit at your feet. It could be putting for someone on. [01:58:41] Speaker A: Stage, especially for such a carefully kind of manicured stage show. [01:58:46] Speaker B: Yeah. There's lots of moving parts, a logistic thing and they just go, we're not doing, we're not doing shooting. [01:58:52] Speaker C: The other thing I guess would be like for someone as high profile as Taylor Swift, like less security screening because these people are very close to her in terms of, I don't know, you just never know. And then also if there's any potential that those, some photographer slips in that's maybe not going to glorify them. [01:59:12] Speaker B: Yep. To the level, you know, sometimes you actually have to send photos off for approval. [01:59:18] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:59:19] Speaker B: And you only get back say five images that are for approval and you can't post them on your own social media. They have to just go on the publication. [01:59:27] Speaker C: Yeah, because, because, you know, I'm sure you've shot, I've shot lots of action and a little bit of live stuff but not, not like you've done. But there are moment, there are moments when it doesn't look flattering for the artist and you would just move past that photo and be like, whatever. But a tabloid, a tabloid photographer does. That's, they're like, that's the photo. Her face looks all strange because she was jumping or something or you know, like whatever. [01:59:50] Speaker A: Because you know, Taylor Swift is really a 45 year old man. Look at this photo. Kind of. [01:59:55] Speaker B: Yeah. So I always think about it, I always think about it in the perspective of like, if this was me, would I want this photo on the Internet forever? [02:00:03] Speaker C: Exactly. [02:00:04] Speaker A: Yep. [02:00:07] Speaker C: Yeah, that's how it should be. [02:00:09] Speaker B: Yeah. But there is, there is photographers that I've seen that like I've been in the same pit where there's been girls that are like, you know, kneeled down in front of us and that split second of like, you know, there's a bit of an awkward moment and it's like they've posted that photo. It's like you wouldn't want that photo on the Internet of your friend or you or your sister or whatever. So like don't post it. Like. Yeah, there is, there is a bit of that sort of etiquette. [02:00:34] Speaker C: It's short term thinking because that, you know, you're never going to work with that artist. You're never gonna. [02:00:38] Speaker B: Exactly. And I've spoken, I'm like friends with a lot of like PR people and management and like a lot of them have said like there is particular photographers that are not allowed at any of my shows. So, like, they may have done one bad thing at one show, but then that PR person goes on to manage, like, you know, 40, 50, 60 artists, and they're not allowed at any of those shows because they've done the wrong thing once. And that's. I think that's fair enough. Like, you. You've got to behave. And again, that goes back to, like, being a good person and being good. [02:01:07] Speaker A: And it wasn't like, it was an accident. It's. It's an intentional choice. [02:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:01:11] Speaker C: Especially in an industry that's so competitive. You know, there's a million people lining up to do this. It's like, if they can ease, you know, someone's just going to say, no, we don't need you. We've got other people that won't do what you did. So. [02:01:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. [02:01:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:01:24] Speaker A: I just want to jump in quickly because I am conscious of time. Justin does have to catch a flight. [02:01:29] Speaker C: I do, but I've got so many questions left. [02:01:35] Speaker A: Dear. Oh, my goodness. [02:01:39] Speaker C: I haven't finished them all yet. Yeah. [02:01:42] Speaker A: All right, One more question. [02:01:44] Speaker C: Oh, okay. All right, you guys can pick the question or the topic. The topic. The topics available are your film cameras, learning video coming from a photo background, and shooting hybrid or craziest stories from your career as a live music photographer. [02:02:10] Speaker A: Let's go with the crate. Well, you choose, Lucinda. It's your show. [02:02:13] Speaker C: Yeah, you. You choose. [02:02:14] Speaker B: I don't have that many crazy stories, to be honest. Oh, probably not ones that are not. That are appropriate for a podcast. [02:02:21] Speaker C: Dave Grohl didn't do something crazy and like. [02:02:24] Speaker B: No, no, because I didn't. I was shooting for a publication, so I wasn't backstage or anything for that show. [02:02:30] Speaker C: Dang. What? Well, what do you mean? What about. We're doing, like, a rapid fire with your film camera. [02:02:36] Speaker B: We can rapid fire it. So film camera wise, I own. I'm very much Polaroid Girly, so I've got one sitting here. I love the old. I pull these out and people go, what on earth is this? [02:02:48] Speaker A: So they use one of those to make a prop in a recent Star wars show. [02:02:51] Speaker B: Do they really? [02:02:53] Speaker A: That exact camera? Yep. [02:02:55] Speaker B: So I carry one of these actively in my pelican case. It is. It is a thing that I use, but the great thing is that it folds up. It's meant to go in your pocket, but girls don't get pockets, so it doesn't fit in my pockets. [02:03:07] Speaker C: It's pretty big, too. [02:03:09] Speaker B: It is. [02:03:09] Speaker A: The patriarchy is. Sorry about that. [02:03:11] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks. But I Love these Polaroids. And I've got this one actually tattooed on my arm. But I have about seven of these in different varieties. I'm a collector. I am a collector. I also have a lot of 35 mils. I have. What else do I have? I have lots of point and shoots. I've got a Mamiya RB67 because it was one of the first cameras I shot on when I was at school. So I finally bought one of those during COVID and I love it. I got a Pentax 67 with the first page. First and only paycheck currently that I got from Rolling Stone. I did a press portraits. Yeah, there's another clanger. I did some work for Seth Century, who's a Australian hip hop artist. And he. They were doing like this promotion with a headphone brand, I think. And he's a bit of a gamer. So we went to his house and photographed a bunch of like, photos of him in his gaming room. And like he was like out there making us cups of tea and it was. It was wild. So with that paycheck, I bought the Pentax 67, which is beautiful. I've got this wooden handle on it. It's a gorgeous piece of kit. I actually used it like two days ago. But I think at last count, I think There was about 145 cameras on a shelf behind me just here. [02:04:31] Speaker C: 145 what? [02:04:36] Speaker B: Yeah, there's probably. You can't say it. It's tough. [02:04:39] Speaker C: I'm like, I don't see it. I don't see the shelf. [02:04:41] Speaker B: I'll send you a photo of it. It. But there's probably about 45 Polaroid cameras. I've got like all of the plastic Polaroid cameras. I've got multiple bellows. I've got like. Yeah, seven of these SX 70s. Yeah. Like multiple point. [02:04:55] Speaker A: That's amazing. [02:04:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I love. I love old. Old tech and most of them work. So that's the other thing. I like to have film cameras that actually are working. I also shoot. I've shot a music video that premiered on MTV on Super 8. [02:05:13] Speaker C: Oh, whoa. [02:05:15] Speaker B: A whole video? Yeah. So I shot a couple of music videos on a Super 8 camera like two years ago. It is a very expensive process. There is someone in Dales for the processes it. But yeah, so I've got like, you know, three Super 8 cameras as well. [02:05:30] Speaker C: That's awesome. Yeah, that's very cool. I can't believe you made a video music video with Super 8. [02:05:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Wild. The friend of mine was like, can we. I really like the look of Super 8. Can we do it? I was like, if you pay for the processing and the film of it, then sure. Like, yeah, it's an arm and a leg, but, yeah, it looks really cool. And I've just done a little bit of documenting on it. Like, it's. It's kind of a fun. A fun process. But yeah. [02:05:58] Speaker C: Is it tedious in or like, you know, does it not work out a lot or is it fairly not foolproof? But, you know, have you ever. Have you shot most things and they turned out fine, or is it like. [02:06:11] Speaker B: Oh, that didn't work most of it? I think you only get like two and a half minutes worth of footage on one roll of film, which is about $80 a pop. And then you've got to process it, which is about 100 bucks. So it's a very expensive exercise. Yeah. [02:06:25] Speaker C: Do you start and stop? Like, how does it work? I've never used Super 8. Can you. [02:06:28] Speaker B: There's like a trigger on it. So it's like a. It's almost like a machine gun, almost. Yeah. And you just. You focus it. Mine has metering through it. So some of them do. Some of them don't. When you buy them, like, some of the batteries don't work in them anymore and it's. It's a whole. It's a whole thing. But yeah, essentially you frame it up and. And, yeah, you just hold down the trigger and then you let go and it stops filming. And then you can just keep doing that up until you finish the roll. [02:06:53] Speaker C: So if you did that, you could basic. If you were selective with what you shoot shoot, you can end up with a 2 1/2 minute video that doesn't need to be edited. Yeah, you just point it at the right moment and start and stop. That actually, that would be a great. [02:07:07] Speaker B: So that's practically what we did, you know, that's practically what we did. So we were like, on these netball courts and we're just like, doing. We did two full runs. We did one on a netball court and one in, like an old YMCA like gym with all this, like, cool, colorful gym equipment. And then we just split the. Split the footage across. So we just did, like. [02:07:24] Speaker C: Yeah, two takes of it, start to finish, start, stop. Like as in just pull the trigger and roll the whole two and a half minutes. Oh, that's very cool. [02:07:33] Speaker B: Yep. [02:07:34] Speaker C: Nice. [02:07:35] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So lots of cameras. So whoever said that they had the biggest camera collection? I think I went, yeah. [02:07:40] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. You've eclipsed everybody by 10 times combined. [02:07:45] Speaker A: Everybody combined so far? [02:07:46] Speaker C: Combined. Okay, well, this question will be fun then. Zombie apocalypse. [02:07:52] Speaker A: Hang on. Can we come to your house and play? Like, can we just come and play with your cameras? [02:07:56] Speaker C: No, I was actually thinking, great, I'd love to get down there and just do like, yeah, like a. I'll just hold a camera and you just take every one of them off the shelf and tell me about them. You know, like, just make like a. An unedited 30 minute video of talking about every film camera on your shelf. [02:08:11] Speaker B: I think that I do have that in the, in the, in the brains trust that I was going to do some tiktoks on, like some of my favorite ones that are a bit like niche. [02:08:20] Speaker C: Nice. Well, I could film it, put it on YouTube, unedited, and then you can take all that footage and chop it into content. Yeah, let's do it. David, Mascara says you've got more cameras than my local camera store. [02:08:32] Speaker B: I think the most camera, honestly. [02:08:36] Speaker C: Yeah. Okay, so if the world was ending and zombies had risen up and were trying to eat everyone, everyone's brains, what camera? If you could pick just one camera and one lens to document the end of the world, what would it be? [02:08:52] Speaker B: I think for sentimental purposes, I've got my dad's K1000 on the shelf with a 50mil on it. So I think I'd take that. [02:08:58] Speaker C: I love it. [02:08:59] Speaker A: Nice. [02:09:00] Speaker C: What film? What. What film stock would you load in there to. To capture the zombies? [02:09:06] Speaker B: I like kodak portra. Yeah. 400, 800. I also, I shoot a lot. I sometimes will shoot live on Ilford 3200 Delta. [02:09:18] Speaker C: Oh, grainy. [02:09:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Grady. Real Grady. But yeah, I do like those two film stocks. [02:09:26] Speaker C: Very cool. All right. I mean, that's. That's 80 of my questions. I think we do pretty well. [02:09:34] Speaker B: We did talk about Canon for a very long time. [02:09:36] Speaker C: Yeah. What am I supposed to do? This is like my one chance. Next week it'll be back to Fuji. [02:09:43] Speaker A: Poor you. [02:09:45] Speaker C: If you do ever want to talk Canon lenses, I've got a. I've got a rf. Like, if you get to the point where you do an rf, I'm sure you mix with a lot of photographers in the pit too, but. Yeah, I've got a ton and I've tested a heap of them. [02:09:55] Speaker B: Right. [02:09:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:09:58] Speaker C: All right. Anything else? Anything you want to plug? Lucinda, you got anything coming up that you want people to know about potentially? [02:10:05] Speaker B: I'm going to have a show and another exhibition in the Ballarat Photo Bali, which is coming up. So. Yeah, nothing. Nothing super announced about that yet, but, yeah, that's something to. Eyes peeled September. [02:10:18] Speaker A: Yeah, Just before. [02:10:20] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [02:10:21] Speaker C: We got to get over there as well. [02:10:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really. It's really great. Any photographers who haven't been before? Just. Yeah, it's. It's a great. It's a great little festival to go to. There's lots of cool workshops and stuff going on as well, but, yeah, lots of stuff that is just like, open to the public, free in, like, really random, like, alleyways and cafes. [02:10:40] Speaker A: And cafes, yeah. [02:10:42] Speaker B: Yeah. You can just make it like a day of it or even a weekend of it. Ballarat's like a beautiful place to be and lots of beautiful cafes and stuff, so. [02:10:50] Speaker A: And galleries. Lots of beautiful galleries. [02:10:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Although the art gallery is currently closed, I went on the very last day because they're refurbing it for a year, so it's actually closed at the moment. It's one of my favorite galleries, but, yeah, currently closed. [02:11:03] Speaker C: So our Bendigo gallery is getting a massive refurb late, I think, as well. Yeah, that's. It's interesting they're doing both at a similar time. Yeah. It must be around a funding round. Our gallery gets a lot of. Of great shows, so it's cool. [02:11:17] Speaker A: We're going to come and see the Frida Carlo one soon. [02:11:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:11:21] Speaker A: Yeah, head over for that. [02:11:24] Speaker C: David says, what's your oldest camera? Maybe I beat you there. I have the 1957 Nikon SP. [02:11:31] Speaker B: Oh, I'm not entirely sure, but I know. So I used. I get these serviced. I get these Polaroid service by Jake from the Instant Camera guy who used to be in Melbourne but now is in, I think, South Australia. And the one that I actively use, which has autofocus on it, he said, was one of the oldest versions of it. But, yeah, I'm not entirely sure which one's my oldest one. I'd have to come back to you on that. [02:11:56] Speaker C: And you're the reigning champ, David, until. Till Lucinda comes back with it. [02:12:02] Speaker B: Cool, baby. So, you know, they can't be too old. [02:12:05] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Anything else, Greg? [02:12:10] Speaker A: No, I think it's time to wrap, but just before we do, a couple of. A couple of notes. If you're new to the. To watching the channel or if you're listening or watching later, either on YouTube or audio podcasts, then g' day. Welcome to the camera life. We run a show. We run two shows a week. We have our Thursday morning guest interview, as has been perfectly exemplified by Lucinda Goodwin. And we also have a Monday night random photography show. We're talking about Australian times. For those of you that are not on the, on the Eastern seaboard of Australia, just check your local times and YouTube. Make sure you like today's episode. It helps us out a lot. Make sure you subscribe and tickle the bell. You'll get notifications for upcoming episodes. And every now and then we drop in some sneaky content, too. So it's always best to be in the know about that. But on that note, I would like to thank today's guest for what has been a truly insightful and inspirational inspirational look into her world of music photography. Not just concerts, but a whole raft of, of, you know, sub genres. And I think anyone that's had a look at Lucinda's work or has watched along today will agree with me that, you know, as we said earlier, you set a lane to be a photographer and you, and you've stuck to your lane despite everything that was against you. And I think that's really inspirational for people to hear. And we thank you for your time today and for sharing your, your story and your work with us. [02:13:48] Speaker B: Thanks for having me. It's been fun. [02:13:50] Speaker C: Thanks so much. 2 hours and 13 minutes. What a, what a show. And finally, last few comments. Dennis says, thanks so much, Lucinda. Rodney Nicholson says, absolutely enjoyable, Lucinda. David Mascara says, yep. And Philip Johnson says, thanks, Lucinda. And Justin and Greg, good episode. Thanks, guys. Thanks, everyone. And I'm gonna roll the music. [02:14:18] Speaker A: Yeah, we'll see you on Monday night. Thanks, Lucinda.