EP51 Mieke Boynton Award Winning Landscape Photographer

[00:00:04] Speaker A: Why aren't you dancing? It's the morning jam. Hey, look at that, everybody. In case you're wondering, you've tuned in not to Dancing with the Stars but to the Camera Life podcast. This is episode 51. Can you believe it? Can you believe it, Justin? [00:00:23] Speaker B: I'm very excited. We're cruising. We're going to be at 100 in no time. [00:00:27] Speaker A: No time at all. Those down south boys. We're coming for you. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Watch out. [00:00:31] Speaker A: Episode 51. It is the 13th of February 2025. I remember how slow January felt and all of a sudden we're halfway through Feb. [00:00:42] Speaker B: It's a short month too. It's over the 28th, isn't it? [00:00:45] Speaker A: Is it a short list? Yep, it is. Yeah, it is a short month. But you are listening to the Camera Life podcast coming at your earballs and eyeballs live from. We're all in Victoria today, which is not uncommon. But we're coming to you live from Victoria. And just a reminder that the Camera Live podcast a couple of things. All of our back catalog is available on the YouTube. You can also listen to. Given that we are sort of long form podcasts, you can also listen to us on all your favorite audio platforms. But we also have a Monday night show. We just had our first Monday night show a couple of nights ago to celebrate our 50th. [00:01:27] Speaker B: Yes. Which is apparently that we got a few. A few not, I wouldn't say negative comments, but we got a few comments. That's actually midnight Sunday for our US listeners. They were not as stoked at the time slot because we did a giveaway and they were like, we're asleep. So where's our giveaway? We'll sort something out. [00:01:47] Speaker A: We'll sort something out, don't you worry. We did say it was an experimental experience for us and for our viewers. But look, if this is the first time you're joining or if you haven't bothered to do it yet, please make sure you like and subscribe. Tickle the bell icon because that way you'll get notified. Because sometimes we'll drop random shows. We dropped a random show last week with Charlie Blevins from Fujifilm Australia. But enough about that. Today we are joined by landscape, Victorian landscape and aerial landscape photographer Nika rhymes with sneaker. Boynton, how are you? Oh, great. Pink one. [00:02:26] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm pink. I'm pink. [00:02:30] Speaker A: Do you want to get that out of the way now? Let's get that out of the way. [00:02:34] Speaker B: Yeah, tell us the story. [00:02:35] Speaker C: Okay, so yes, not yesterday, the day before yesterday. Tuesday I had the day off and I've been watching the weather and I decided to drive up to Falls Creek and do look at a cattleman's hut that I hadn't seen before called Rover Hut. And Google unreliably told me that there were two different ways I could get there before hitting the walking track. And the first entrance said private only. And the second entrance had a great big gate across it saying maintenance vehicles only. And I was like, well that really sucks because I'd already driven an hour and a half to get there. So I was like, well, maybe I'll find another path that I can enjoy. So I pulled off the next entrance that I hadn't been to and there was a car park and, and there was a little shack there. And I was like, oh this is cool, there's a little stream there. And I jumped across and took photos of the shack. And then two people walked past and we sang out to each other and I was like, I think this is the way to Kelly's and Fitzgerald Hut. So I was like, oh, well, I'll just. It looks kind of like there's a valley over there. Maybe I'll just go have a look. So I put some Sunscreen on at 11 o'clock in the morning and I went to explore. But it was so good that I just kept exploring. And then I realized that I was an hour into a two and a half hour walk. And I was like, well, I'm never gonna do this again. Why don't I just do the whole walk? I walked 16 km. I am in so much pain. I want new feet, new ankles, new knees, new hips, new back and a new non burned face, thank you very much. [00:04:15] Speaker A: Wow. [00:04:16] Speaker B: The question is, was it worth it? [00:04:19] Speaker C: Not really. So it sort of was simply because out of curiosity I said to Matt, I was in a lot of pain yesterday because, you know, the next day is terrible. And I'd been, you know, sucking down the ibuprofens, but I was still in a lot of pain. And you know, he's such a sweetheart. He didn't tell me off for complaining because it was totally my choice, totally my decision, my own faul. But I said, you know, the truth is I would actually do it again. And the reason being I. I've wanted to go and find that place for so long. And now I know now I never have to go back again. If someone asks for a photo of either of those two huts, I have a photo of both those huts and that's it. I've got the photo, you're gonna, you're. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Gonna add a little, a little effort tax onto the sale of those images, I imagine, just for the. [00:05:10] Speaker C: No, no, no. The, the, the satisfaction of the curiosity is that. Is the tax part paid. [00:05:16] Speaker A: That's lovely. That's a nice, That's a really nice sentiment. The satisfaction of the curiosity. [00:05:21] Speaker B: What a great way to start the show off with a landscape photographer hearing a story that not, not every adventure is just like a perfect, easy stroll to capture the best photo you've ever seen in your life. And then you come back and you're like, got another one. Easy done. [00:05:37] Speaker C: And the worst part of that hike, so almost the whole way was actually a, A, a track, like a car maintenance track. So it was very flat, you know, easy to walk. And then the last half hour, once you've already done, you know, your 7Ks was uphill, uphill, uphill, uphill. And I was, I was literally counting steps to get there because it was so painful. [00:06:05] Speaker B: But you're so far in at that point, you got to go. You got to go the rest of the way. You know, you've. You've got. [00:06:10] Speaker C: You can't turn around at that point. And I'm sure, I'm sure they're aware of that. And I'm sure anyone who's walked to those huts sympathizes with me because, yeah, it's. You think, okay, well, I can handle this. This. It's, it's. It might not be a short walk, but it's at least an easy walk. And then it's like, ahaha. No, now it's gonna get harder. [00:06:32] Speaker B: So good. So good it is. Greg, before we find out a little bit more about who Mika is and why everyone should listen to this podcast, because it's going to be amazing. I get a couple of comments. [00:06:44] Speaker A: You do? [00:06:45] Speaker B: Elena says, morning, all. Morning, Elena. [00:06:47] Speaker A: Morning, Elena. [00:06:48] Speaker B: Morning. Philip Johnson. He says greeting and hi, Mika. Yeah, he's a legend. We met him at. @ bfop. [00:06:57] Speaker C: Yeah, I missed meeting him at befop. I was very disappointed. [00:07:00] Speaker B: You'll. Hopefully you'll be there this year. [00:07:02] Speaker C: I will be there this year. [00:07:04] Speaker B: Editor Seb says good morning, chats, chaps. I can't even read this morning or talk. Hello, Mika. And David Skinner says morning all. This will be good. [00:07:14] Speaker C: Good morning, David. Thanks. [00:07:16] Speaker A: Morning, David. So, Micah, growing up as a kid, you grew up in Australia already? [00:07:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Mika. Mika. [00:07:25] Speaker A: What did I say? [00:07:26] Speaker B: Micah. [00:07:27] Speaker C: Micah. [00:07:27] Speaker A: No, I didn't. I said make a run to sneaker makeup. You grew up in Australia. You didn't. You didn't get the slip stop slap lectures that the rest of us got in school. [00:07:36] Speaker C: Yeah, no, that was the thing. I put sunscreen on. I just wasn't gonna go on a 16 kilometer hike when I left the car. So I didn't pack the sunscreen, which was the problem. [00:07:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm quite. I can't leave the house without a hat, but when I'm doing this sort of stuff. So. Yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's been drilled into me my whole life. [00:08:00] Speaker C: Three quarters of the way through the. The walk, I determined to buy myself a hat this week. [00:08:05] Speaker A: Nice. Nice. [00:08:07] Speaker B: Nice big. [00:08:08] Speaker A: Get a shopping trip out of it. It's just. Yeah, so that's the thing. [00:08:11] Speaker C: I have one of them, but you can't walk around in that. So I need something that's a little bit like a Terry towing hat, you know, that just squash in your bag and just get out when you need it. [00:08:23] Speaker A: Yeah, very good. Oh, and for those of you who didn't grow up in Australia during the 70s and 80s or just in the 90s, we slip. Slop. Slap was a slip on a. What was it? [00:08:38] Speaker C: Sunscreen and slap on a slap on a hat. [00:08:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:42] Speaker C: And now it was like seven S's or something like that. [00:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah, they just complain it ruined it. [00:08:48] Speaker A: It's too much. [00:08:48] Speaker C: What was he called? Something? Sam. Seagull Sam. [00:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah. I think now it's. It's stay out of the sun, but also supplement with vitamin D tablets. There's, you know, this. [00:08:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Touch grass every now and then. [00:09:00] Speaker B: That's one of them. [00:09:01] Speaker A: Yeah. So, Mika, let's. Let's hear from you. Yeah, tell us a little bit, just very quickly who you are and what you do in the world of photography. [00:09:13] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's Mika, rhymes with sneaker. And I will explain the name. So my mom is Dutch and Mika is how the duchies say it, which is beautiful. Mikke. But. So I was named after my grandma and it's quite a common Dutch name, but in Australia there's not very many Mikas. And so all my life, from when I was born, it's Mika with an A. Like, that's how you say it. Yeah, but I get everything. So anyway, so that's. That's the story. So my mum's Dutch, my dad Aussie, and technically I'm a Dutchie and an Aussie. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Yep. [00:09:54] Speaker C: But obviously I've lived here by almost my whole life, apart from living in America for four years. And, yeah, what I do is landscape photography. Fortunately, it's actually my Job, my full time job, which is a rare privilege and I know you've had Matt Palmer on the show before. He's now my husband. So Matt and I are both full time landscape photographers and we run a gallery called Alpine Light Gallery in the foothills of the mountains in Victoria. So it's in Bright and we go exploring as per two days ago up at Falls Creek, Mount Hotham and Mount Buffalo, which is my favorite mountain. And when, yeah, whenever we're not taking photos here, there and everywhere, we're here in the gallery. [00:10:46] Speaker A: Nice and. And Bright. For those of you listening along who haven't been to Bright or Victoria or Australia, especially if you're a flat earther, we don't exist. It's just a big sound stage. But Bright is nestled in the valley amongst three mountain ranges. It's a beautiful town. It's probably one of the prettiest towns in Victoria, I would say. And it's where the annual Bright Photography of festival is held. So lucky for you you don't have to organize accommodation. Speaking of which, Justin, we need to get on to that. [00:11:19] Speaker B: We need to find out if we're allowed to come back or not. Matt still hasn't. [00:11:22] Speaker A: They've gone a bit quiet on us. [00:11:24] Speaker B: I don't know if he likes us anymore. [00:11:25] Speaker A: Stop replying to our messages. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Matt, please tell us what's going on. Can we come back? [00:11:30] Speaker C: I'm sure he's just busy. He's one of the busiest people I know, it's crazy. [00:11:34] Speaker B: He is crazy. [00:11:35] Speaker A: He is busy. But yeah, Bright is in regional Victoria and it's where Justin and I went last year in October for the festival which was our first time. But we will be back if we're allowed. [00:11:47] Speaker B: Yes, we will be back. I'll actually be back there next weekend for the Spartan race. [00:11:53] Speaker C: Oh cool. Well you'll have to pop in and say g'day. [00:11:55] Speaker B: I will. If I can still walk, I'll definitely. Otherwise I'll roll in. [00:11:59] Speaker C: And after, after two days ago, I completely understand the less movement better. But yeah, for your international viewers or listeners, it's about four and a half east of Melbourne. [00:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:12:12] Speaker B: And yeah, beautiful destination, great place, amazing place to live. [00:12:16] Speaker C: Stays in winter and goes crazy Autumn colors in autumn because there's a lot of planted deciduous trees. So yeah, almost all our native trees are evergreen. We only have four native deciduous trees. So our town is filled with non native trees. But the cool thing is is just at our back door is all these national parks which of course are natural so we get the best of Both worlds. [00:12:43] Speaker A: And I found that a lot of the residents properties were really well manicured and cared for. Not that that's important, but it does add to the beauty of a town, let's face it. And I do fondly remember arriving in Bright for beef up and Justin and I grabbing a pie from. Which one was it? Castle Main Bakery. [00:13:00] Speaker B: No, no, we don't have Gumtree. Gumtree, that's it. [00:13:05] Speaker A: And we sat under those big evergreens and pondered what we were about to face at BE while we had our pies. [00:13:13] Speaker C: My great grandmother actually used to come to this area to paint. So it's been an area that's known about for its beauty for a long, long, long time. [00:13:25] Speaker A: That's a lovely segue, Mika. Rhymes with sneaker. I have to keep saying that. I'm so sorry. Go for it. I think when I spoke to you on the phone, was it earlier in the week or last week? I think I mispronounced your name at least four or five times. Different ways. Every, every time is different because I was just trying to. And then in the end you corrected me, which is lovely, but I do. [00:13:46] Speaker C: Want to at all. I don't mind. [00:13:49] Speaker A: I'm so sorry. But your segue about your, your, your great grandmother you said used to paint in the area. I do want to roll back a little bit and talk about some of your, I guess your inspiration growing up and as a, you know, as a young adult and what kind of led you into the world of photography, especially landscape photography. But if we can talk about your earliest inspirations. [00:14:14] Speaker C: Sure. Well, I can go all the way back to when I was a kid. We, we grew up in Palanka, which is just 5 10k's that way. [00:14:24] Speaker A: Just our frame. [00:14:26] Speaker C: Yeah, just, just up the road. 10 k's. You might have noticed as you came into town that there's a big long avenue of big trees outside a winery called Feathertop. Well, that winery used to be called Boynton's of Bright and my parents established that. They bought it as a paddock and they built a winery there. And I grew up in a business which I think is hugely influential to where all three of us first crop kids ended up. So my family has two crops. So I think what I loved was just walking up the bush at the back of the property. So in Australia we call the forest the bush and it was actually state forest and you could go up and. You know, when, when I was a kid, as long as you weren't really in any danger, like we were snake safe and we did wear sunscreen and stuff like that. Your parents were too busy to really give a rats what you were doing as long as you were not unsafe. So I used to. My brother and sister and I used to walk up the back of the property into the state forest and there were tree ferns and bracken and it was just like this magical wonderland for people who don't know what they are. They're just like really green, ferny, rainforesty type bushes and trees. And there was a tiny little spring that was like a little waterfall. And so it was awesome to just go up there and be in nature. And you know, I used to read books like the Famous Five and the Secret Seven and you know, I was an adventurer, so. So that's probably my earliest influence in that. Right from the beginning, I loved nature and I do think that's very relevant because that is why I. Mainly why I photograph. But the photography bit came later. I loved art. I had great art teachers. You know, anyone who's listened to me knows I bang on about that. So I won't go too much into that. But art was my favorite subject. But I was never going to be an artist because I was too much of a perfectionist and it took me too long. But when I accepted a teaching position up in the Kimberley after going to university in America and coming back and all the rest of it, that's when I fell in love with the landscape and just was blown away. I arrived in the wet season, was blown away by the colors and just had to photograph it, like was just compelled to photograph it to share with everyone. So that's where the photography came in. So that was when I was. So that was 2008. So that was quite a bit later. [00:17:24] Speaker A: Okay, 2008. [00:17:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:30] Speaker A: Cool. And when did you guys open Alpine Light? Sorry, I keep going to say Alpine bright, which sounds a bit like one of the my little ponies, but Alpine light. When. When did you guys open alpine light? [00:17:46] Speaker C: 2,000. Hang on. 20? 21. [00:17:49] Speaker B: 21. [00:17:49] Speaker C: Yep. So just after covert at the end of COVID Yep. There's a whole story in that too, if you want to hear it. [00:17:56] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Well, do we want to hear that now? [00:17:59] Speaker A: Okay, we can come back to it. Sure. Justin. [00:18:01] Speaker B: No, I don't mind. I'm happy to hear it. Now I want to find out because the gallery part of it is, is so interesting because, yeah, the, the like running a gallery these days is, is pretty rare, you know, like it's, there's, there's. I don't even know how Many successful photography galleries in Australia, like real galleries, not. Not just selling a big collection of stuff like ran by an artist. Photography galleries, pretty rare. So it's. It's pretty amazing that you guys have even made it more than one year is. Is crazy. [00:18:36] Speaker A: Yeah, especially post Covid. [00:18:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we. [00:18:40] Speaker C: We definitely are not oblivious to that. [00:18:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. It's very cool. And so the other interesting thing I'll really. Well, we'll hear the story about the galley because the other interesting thing I'm hoping to find out about it all is like, that gallery has to support two photographers as opposed to one. So in my mind that would make it even harder, but I'm not sure I want to find out about that later. [00:19:03] Speaker A: And I also want to know, is it. Is there like a perfect wall in the gallery that gets the best light and you and Matt fight over hanging your works there? Is it Position 1. [00:19:12] Speaker B: Position 1. [00:19:13] Speaker A: Position 1. Toss a coin or. [00:19:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:19:16] Speaker C: You guys, you've like brought up about six different things. I'm not sure where to start. Now. [00:19:21] Speaker B: Let's go back to the. The origin stories of the. Of the gallery. [00:19:25] Speaker C: Okay, so the origin story. I don't know if Matt told this in his podcast, but you had him on quite a while ago, so I'll tell the story. [00:19:31] Speaker A: His old news. [00:19:32] Speaker B: Yeah, there's always two sides. There's two sides to every story. I want to hear your side. [00:19:39] Speaker C: Okay, so I had been up in the Kimberley for almost 10 years and I was a full time library manager and doing the photography on the side, which in reality meant I had my management position. And then in the afternoons and evenings I would try and race out and do some photography. But more often than not, what I was doing was actually printing and packaging and getting ready for the Saturday markets because I was up in Broome and the Broome markets are very busy and they're, you know, very. You have to be very prepared with all your stuff if, if you want to do okay there. So that was my outlet. So essentially I was working seven days a week from when I woke up to when I crashed in the evening. It was pretty hectic and the. The last year that I was there was really challenging. And I did start to think, I don't think this is sustainable. And then what happened was it was very serendipitous. Because I was working for tafe, the state government decided that they wanted to offer some voluntary redundancies. And because librarians have a specialist aspect to it, I was on quite a good wicket. Up there, and they were quite keen to get rid of me. So they just. I won't say too much, but I think a lot of people underestimate what libraries are. They don't realize that it's more than books. There's so much learning that happens. There's so much facilitation of information, providing of resources that are not books, ensuring that there's digital resources, how to access. You know, it's. It's really amazing what libraries do these days, but a lot of people are completely oblivious to that, and I feel like that factored in. But anyway, I had no intention of putting my hand up for a voluntary redundancy simply because I felt the library was that important. And I had two staff to think about. And one of my staff members sat me down at a breakfast one day, and I thought we were just having a nice breakfast. And she said, right, the reason I brought you here is you have to put your hand up for that thing. She's like, you're a photographer. You're going to do photography. You're stupid to think that you can sit here and not get gotten rid of. At some point in time, you need to take this opportunity to go with it. And I was just blown away, like, first, that my staff would say that to me, that they cared about me enough to realize that I wasn't going to put my hand up because really, really thoughtful, but also the fact that they actually thought that it was worth giving a shot. So, long story short, I did accept the voluntary redundancy. Well, I offered and it was accepted. And so I moved back to Northeast Victoria to Bright, because Bright doesn't have a photography gallery. And it is the perfect place for a photography gallery because it's a destination and people come here for its beauty. And I feel like that really factors into the success or not success of a gallery. So I moved back here with the intention to open a gallery, and I joined the AIPP and the Australian Institute of Professional Photography. And Matt was a member of the AIPP as well. And we kind of brushed past each other a few times, but we never had a proper conversation. And then he was living in Tasmania and he. [00:23:32] Speaker B: What. What year was it that you moved back to Bright? [00:23:35] Speaker C: I moved back to bright in 2000 and at the very end of 2017, so beginning of 2018, okay, so Matt was living in Taz and was planning to move, and he was thinking of opening a gallery in Deleraine, but he also did his due diligence, as he says, and he looked at what was available on the mainland as well. And he thought Bright. Bright could be a spot. But he knew that I was there. So he gave me a call out of the blue, and gentleman that he is, said to me, hey, how would you feel about another professional photographer living in the area? And I said, no, that's fine. No worries. As long as you don't open a gallery. Because. And the reason I was so blunt is because I knew my motivations for moving here. Bright's not big enough for two photography galleries. He had had the kindness and the gentlemanliness to actually call me to ask. And I felt it would have been stupid of me not to be honest with him if he. If he'd done that. And that was how I felt about it. So he was like, okay, all right, no worries. So I just started running workshops because two workshops down, and then Covid hit. So I had to cancel all the workshops that I had planned, and I moved them online, which was great, because all through Covid, I was running workshops via Zoom. But also Matt was working at that stage. You know, once he'd moved, he was working for the aipp. And we ended up. He ended up moderating a Zoom Q A because they were, you know, doing events to keep everyone connected. And I. I did. I'd offered to do this Q and A, and I ended up doing two back to back. So it was like two one and a half hour talk fests from me with him moderating. And at the end of that, he thought, oh, gosh, this poor girl, like, she's gonna go back to a very empty, quiet house because it's covert, and she's just, you know, poured her heart out for three hours. You know, that's kind of sucky. So he sent me a text message and say, hey, not sure if you want to do any more talking, but if you want to debrief. Because I had actually talked about some pretty serious stuff. He's like, we could meet back on Zoom with a drink. I was like, oh, that sounds great. I'll walk the dog. I'll meet you back on Zoom. Yeah, we talked for 11 hours. [00:26:28] Speaker A: Ah, there you go. [00:26:30] Speaker B: One sitting. [00:26:31] Speaker C: One sitting. [00:26:33] Speaker A: How many drinks, can I ask? If you do the Math? [00:26:38] Speaker C: But at 5:30 the next morning, we were both like, we should probably go to bed. And both of us, like, woke up going, what just happened? That's insane. And neither of us, like, I'm. I might come across as conversational or whatever, but I'm actually definitely an introvert. And so is he. And so 11 hours was like exponentially more than what we'd ever talked with, especially during COVID Anyway, the next conversation was seven hours and the next was five hours. So we knew that there was something going on. And so, yeah, a few, few days later we decided we were a couple. And one month later Matt came to Bright. He was planning to just come for a couple of weeks, but then the lockdowns happened and he couldn't get back home. [00:27:33] Speaker A: Oh, what a shame. [00:27:34] Speaker C: He ended up living with me. So we didn't get to date. We just moved in together. Having not had like any experience with this, it was pretty rocky in the beginning. I'll be perfectly honest, that is not the best way to begin a relationship. [00:27:51] Speaker A: That's not at all. [00:27:52] Speaker B: But particularly it works. [00:27:54] Speaker C: Well, it did, but if you've been independent a long time. So I hadn't been in a relationship for 15 years and was very happy with the way that I had my life. And similarly, he was very happy with the way his life was. So you're going to get a bit of friction there. [00:28:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:09] Speaker C: Anyway, and I'm doing like the long version, so. [00:28:11] Speaker A: No, no, it's okay. [00:28:15] Speaker B: That's what the people are here. [00:28:16] Speaker C: So anyway, he, he was here and we, you know, it wasn't too long down the track that we knew that this was pretty special and we wanted this to be a forever thing. So we were keeping an eye open for businesses that were available for lease. And of course during COVID a lot of businesses did change hands, a lot of leases, you know. But what we were finding was the ones that we were like, yeah, if that comes up, we should definitely inquire about was gone. Like because of the local grapevine. We just didn't get that opportunity. And then this one came up. It was a travel agency and hello World travel. So the doors were like, oh, there, blue color and, and lilac. But anyway, long story short, we walked in, it had big open windows that had blinds on them, but big open windows facing the the road. And we both went, this is actually really good. And so by the end of that day we had said to them, we want like. So this went up in the morning. By the afternoon we were like, yeah, we want to lease this place. So it was like a one day snap decision. And then we had to sort everything out. And fortunately, because both of us wanted to open a gallery, we'd already had meetings. I know that sounds strange, but we had already had a business meeting talking about what we wanted, if we got a gallery and how we were going to operate it. And, you know, Matt had already done some rudimentary budgeting. That's not me, that's definitely him. And so we already had everything in place when this place became available. So basically we had, I think, two months to get everything ready. And then we opened in December 2021. [00:30:22] Speaker B: Wow. [00:30:23] Speaker C: That was a very long answer to your story. [00:30:25] Speaker A: No, it's a beautiful story. It's really sweet and it's, you know, and it's really nice to hear of a business forming pretty much as, you know. I mean, you both had that desire and that dream, but for Covid to almost accelerate that. [00:30:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:40] Speaker A: And the relationship. [00:30:41] Speaker B: I was gonna say and a relationship. [00:30:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:43] Speaker B: And I even have. I've got follow up questions, so we're gonna drag the story out even longer. But before we do that, before we do that, there's a couple of comments. Jim. Jim, host of the show, where are you? I, I gave him the morning off. I was like, we don't need you today because he's a Nikon shooter. And they would have been like talking about Nikons and stuff. I was like, no, no, we don't, we don't need that. We are gonna, we are gonna talk about your camera gear later. Jim says, beautiful story. Amanda Stewart says, what an amazing start to a relationship. [00:31:14] Speaker C: Hi, Amanda, thanks for joining. [00:31:22] Speaker B: I'll have to kick you off now, Greg. Usual gang up on us. Elena says here, here. Mika, name errors. Yelena gets a lot of different Yolandas and Yolandas. And yeah, David says, plenty of choices, right. To buy a hat and a meter again. Says she had a similarly disastrous hike at Phillip island recently. So, yeah, good company. [00:31:50] Speaker A: We've all been there. [00:31:51] Speaker C: Yeah, I know we have. If you love landscape photography, you're gonna have experiences like this, but it's an Aussie. [00:31:58] Speaker A: Like sometimes you head out the door and you think, I'll be all right. And then you get home. Oh, a bit tight. Bit tight today. [00:32:06] Speaker B: Yeah. We didn't, we didn't. We weren't. It wasn't a photography hike. I mean, it kind of was, but it was the middle of the day, so it wasn't at Yosemite. We set out on a loop. Yeah, name dropping. Set out on a loop. That was, that was pretty doable for us. And we got to a point in the loop where you could extend it and do like this sort of epic rim loop. And we're like, we're feeling pretty good. Let's do it. And then. Yeah, I don't know what it ended up being, but it was a massive. By the end of it, like the last bit was. You know, what's worse than an uphill at the end of a hike? I know insanely steep downhill. Like big steps and rocks and like my knees felt like they had. I needed lubrication. They were rusting up on the way down. [00:32:52] Speaker A: And you're pretty fit. [00:32:54] Speaker B: Look, Yelena is, but we. And she was, she was pooped. We were both pooped. We ran out of water. I drank water out of one of the rivers at the top of Yosemite. And then because there's no service and I'm like, it's a flowing stream. I mean, this has got to be great, right? You get. I got down into service and googled it. And it's like, never ever drink the water from the, from the top because of these, all these parasites and stuff. I was like, so the next two weeks I was waiting for. I can't remember what it's called, giardia or something like that. I was just waiting for all this, the symptoms to sit in. Because it said it can take 10 days to show up in your system. [00:33:30] Speaker A: Oh, no, you just. [00:33:31] Speaker B: Every day I'm like, I think, I feel it. I think I'm dying. Then I was fine anyway. So we've all got those stories. [00:33:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:39] Speaker B: Elena couldn't enjoy the last third of that hike in so much pain. It was 25ks. Yeah. With a fair bit of validation and no, not a lot of prep. We had some water, but not enough. You okay there, Greg? [00:33:53] Speaker A: Yeah, just choking on my own breath. [00:33:57] Speaker C: I did now quietly dying over there. [00:34:00] Speaker B: I had some follow up questions on the gallery. I've forgotten most of them now, but one of them was. So up until this point. So you were fairly new in the relationship, but obviously it was, it was accelerated because you, you threw straight into living together, basically. So it was, it was a fairly new relationship, but probably pretty, pretty deep, pretty quick. But then you're opening this new business. Up until this point, your photography businesses and, and lives, like, financially, I assume, had been completely separate. You know, like, you're running your business, Matt's running his business, and then you're going to open this gallery. Was the gallery going to be like, hey, we're still each running our own business, but we'll share the costs of this space? Or was it like, hey, we're starting a new business and we're, we're partners in this financially and it's going to be its own business. [00:34:47] Speaker C: Yeah. So right from the beginning, we set up a bank account that was a joint bank account specifically for Alpine Lights. Yeah, I. It doesn't really matter. One of us had more funds than the other, so that went in for the capital. [00:35:06] Speaker A: No one's keeping score, clearly. [00:35:10] Speaker C: Well, I, Yeah, it was, it was a. I mean, I'd never done anything like that before, so it was a bit scary, to be perfectly honest. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:35:20] Speaker C: So. Yeah, so. But I'd been saving a long time specifically for this. And so that, that, that money went in and then was joint for both of us. That was not no longer mine even before we got married. That was the business. And so everything that, the rent, the, the flooring, the p. Pulling out the lights and putting in new lighting, the hanging system, all of that came out of that bucket right from the beginning. So this was definitely considered a joint endeavor right from day dot. [00:36:00] Speaker B: Yeah. So, and, and, and so like, I don't want to get too much into the nitty gritty of it, but like, so then, you know, if you sell one of your images versus one of Matt's images, does that just not. It doesn't matter. [00:36:13] Speaker C: Doesn't matter at all. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Doesn't matter at all. It's just. This is the Alpine Light Gallery, you know? [00:36:17] Speaker C: Yeah. And I think, I think it has to be like that because the truth is, I'm so grateful our work looks good together. [00:36:27] Speaker B: It looks great together. I couldn't. When I walked in, I was like, there's no way to know until you look at the. You know, obviously you could probably learn your styles with a bit more exposure to the. [00:36:38] Speaker C: Yeah, but it's not like you look at the work and go, that's Matt, that's Mika. Like, it just sits really comfortably together. Together. And I do feel like when people come into the gallery, as soon as they close that door, it's our little oasis. And I don't know if you felt that, but it just feels like time stops. [00:36:53] Speaker B: It's quiet. [00:36:54] Speaker C: Yeah. You just have time to peacefully enjoy. And there's enough work that you can spend time here. Like people have spent over an hour here before, so that's really nice. And that atmosphere is only there because we have co created that space and it's equally our work up on the walls. I do the curating now. We both did the curating in the beginning, but I love it so much. And I was like, please, can you let me do this? I really, really enjoy doing this. [00:37:24] Speaker A: Really. [00:37:24] Speaker C: So. [00:37:25] Speaker B: So everything that's on the walls and where it sits, that's your. Your decision. [00:37:30] Speaker C: Okay. So the beginning setup in terms of how many prints and the layout. Matt and I did that together. So he did a lot of prep beforehand because he, he's. His background is design, so he really quickly mocked up. [00:37:48] Speaker B: I think I remember him saying that he like. Yeah, he digitally designed it. [00:37:53] Speaker C: Yep. And what. Because we had to order prints, so we had to know how many prints would comfortably fit in the space and the dimensions and the how. How much space we wanted around the prints because all of that really matters. We didn't want a clear, flooded gallery. We wanted a place that you can look at every single image when you come in and just spend time with it. So we didn't want it to be higgledy piggledy. We didn't want it to look all over the shop. We wanted it to look very, you know, gallery like. So he did that design. But now we, we, we try to do themes over autumn and winter. So if you come in autumn and winter, you'll have a full, almost full gallery of those seasons, whether it's local or international. We like to have both, but we like to have those seasons, but then in spring and summer, because they are not as productive photographically, those seasons, we tend to just have a little bit of everything. And that works really well for us too, because I enjoy curating in those seasons because it means that if, like, at the moment I'm reaching my. My itchy point, I'm like, okay, we. We've had those up for, you know, for a month now. I already know which new big prints going in the front window. And I'll. I'll start there and then I'll think about what we've got in the cupboard. [00:39:19] Speaker B: And is it, Is it one of yours going in the big front window? [00:39:24] Speaker C: Yes. So then we'll have one of each. And I think that's really nice. [00:39:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that's cool. [00:39:33] Speaker C: Yeah. So, yeah, that's how that works. And, you know, we do. So the two things that I keep in mind are one, it should be about 50% for each of us on representation on the walls. And two, what is the other thing? [00:39:53] Speaker B: I think I remember Matt saying about. Was it something about 50, 50 local. [00:39:57] Speaker C: And 50% local and 50% international? And, you know, it changes. It might be 40, 60, but, you know, most of the time it's 50, 50. And that's because people come to bright. Because it's bright. And so we do feel like they, they want to see imagery that reflects what they came for. But then we also want, we want to be excited about the work that we're Producing too and we've done a lot of travel. Last year was in incredible. Last year was the most travel I've ever done in the year. And so you want to be able to have new work on the wall and you don't want to be limited by. Oh, it needs to be local. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:37] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. A good mix up. Some for them, some for you. [00:40:43] Speaker C: Don't get me wrong, I love where we live and I love having local photos as well. So it's not like a. Oh, we have to have, you know, it's not like that at all. [00:40:52] Speaker A: All. [00:40:53] Speaker C: I am very proud that this is where I grew up and so I definitely want that element to it. But it, it's more just being conscious of what that percentage is. [00:41:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's. Yeah, that's so cool. I guess it could be really easy to, to go on a big trip, a couple of big trips, get super excited and then all of a sudden the galleries, 80% international stuff and like you say, people are walking in excited about Bright and the surrounding area but not seeing that reflected on the walls. That, that makes total sense. [00:41:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you've also got to, you've got to be realistic about it. As much as it'd be nice to only put your favorites up. You all are also running a business and I imagine you've got to understand what sells in your market like any business and cater to the customer's needs. To a degree. [00:41:43] Speaker C: To a degree. And that's something that we both are very adamant about. Both of us have known people. So I. There was a photographer who was up in Broome and I thought he was the bee's knees. He was just such a lovely man. I can mention him, Nigel Gaunt. And I was just learning photography and he was fully fledged professional photographer and he had Red Dirt Gallery in Broome and we happened to be. So at the time I was working as the specialist librarian for the Kimberley Land Council and he was, he was at an annual general meeting which is out bush so that the land council's AGMs are under the stars, camping, you know, meat in a hole in the ground, salted in water kind of situation. So we were both there and we went and did a shoot together, sunrise shoot. And I remember saying to him, man, you're living the dream. I hope I get to do what you're doing one day. And he said, no Mika, you're living the dream. He said, keep that in mind. He said, we have such a small gallery that I can only have on the walls what people Will buy because I need to pay the rent and blah, blah, blah. And he felt really, I hope he doesn't mind me saying this, but it really had a huge impact on me, the fact that he really felt that there were certain photos that had to be on the wall in the gallery for him to be able to make ends meet, which meant there was very little room for new work. And that really hit me and I was like, oh, wow. Like, I don't ever want to be in a situation where I feel trapped by what I love, you know? So Matt and I both determined very early on because he had similar experiences with people, we would. We would put work on the walls that we were most proud of as well. Whether we had, like, if. If we knew it wouldn't sell, it doesn't matter. And the funny thing is, is this past week, the one photo that we. That we both said this is probably the photo that is least likely of any of the photos that we've got to sell. We just sold one. So you just never know. [00:43:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:00] Speaker C: You know, like this, if you limit yourself, you're limiting yourself. You don't know what. What people are going to want when they walk in the door. Most of the people who walk in the door are not actually looking for a print. They're coming in to just enjoy the gallery. And then something speaks to them. And the truth is, if it spoke to you, then surely there's someone else out there that it's going to speak to. You just have to wait till that person shows up. So we try really hard to make sure that we're inspired by our decisions of what's on the wall, as well as making sure. Sure that we can keep the doors open by paying the rent. [00:44:38] Speaker B: All right, I need to. I need to see this. This photo. I have to see it. I'm bringing it up. Hang on. [00:44:45] Speaker C: Do you know what it is? [00:44:48] Speaker B: I want you to tell us. How do I find it? I need to see this. [00:44:53] Speaker C: What's the quickest way to get there? [00:44:55] Speaker B: What, do you want me to go to Instagram or something? [00:44:58] Speaker C: Go to Tasmania. [00:44:59] Speaker B: Where's that? [00:45:00] Speaker A: This is the Alpine Light online gallery. [00:45:04] Speaker C: Actually. Go to the search bar. [00:45:06] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Hang on. Where's that? Oh, here? [00:45:09] Speaker C: Yep. And type in uncertainty. [00:45:11] Speaker A: It's Justin's first time on the Internet. [00:45:13] Speaker B: I'm figuring it out. It's fun. There's so much stuff on the Internet. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:45:18] Speaker B: Hang on. Here we go. This one. [00:45:20] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's the beginning of a bushfire, the fingle fires in Tasmania, and it is an incredible photograph. It is the only photograph that I really know that makes a bushfire look beautiful. But it's. Right, it's that this fire burned 20,000 hectares and threatened the township of Fingal and was fortunately put out before it. It did envelop the town. It actually, there was another one that started and it was coming in two directions for the town. But this is. This is a eucalypt late afternoon sunset light. You can see the little beginnings of the fire and you can see the smoke. But somehow Matt has made it look beautiful. But the reason we didn't think it would sell is. Who wants a photo of a fire on their wall? [00:46:11] Speaker B: Exactly. But there is that, like, regeneration, new growth, you know, that iconic. Like there's. There's. There's other. There's other themes to fire than just destruction, I guess. You know what I mean? [00:46:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:27] Speaker B: So I guess it depends on, like you say, how it speaks to someone. [00:46:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:31] Speaker B: And. And their life and what they've experienced. [00:46:34] Speaker C: Yeah. But there's. [00:46:36] Speaker A: And I think there's something about this beautiful tree. [00:46:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:39] Speaker A: Pushing up through the. The bush, the scrub, you know, and the question. I think for me, the question remains of is this tree going to survive this? You know, it's currently getting some sunlight on it, I imagine. Is that sunlight? It's like the afternoon sun. [00:46:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:53] Speaker A: Falling on the tree and you've got this fire growing in the background. There's this sort of element of will it survive or will it. [00:46:59] Speaker C: Exactly. And that's why Matt called it Uncertainty, which he's. So with words. We actually did a. A joint exhibition early on before. Before we opened the gallery as part of the Ballarat International Photo Biennale. And we did it all on trees. And it was our first exhibition together. It was a joint exhibition and I was struggling with coming up with a name. And he just nailed it. Photosynthesis, like the synthesis of our photography, as well as trees. And he just. So I name my work as soon as I finish it. Like, once a photo is. Is finished, it never gets. Well, there's the rare exception. It gets called Untitled, and that's usually because it's about to go in the bin. But if. If I feel like it might. No, basically, whenever I finish a photo, it's. It gets given a name when I. When I've finished editing. Matt's different. He. He keeps the file name until we decide that it's going in the gallery or going on the website site. And so he. He. He hates the naming process, which is funny, because, you know, he is so brilliant with words. [00:48:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's crazy. Just quickly, while we're on the site, Joel Bramley Photography. Hey, Joel. Was on the site, having a look. Grabbed a calendar. Bit late getting on this year. [00:48:23] Speaker C: Thanks, Joel. I'll get that in the post after work today. [00:48:26] Speaker B: Calendars available atalpine light alpinelight.com $20. You're basically giving them away cheap. [00:48:35] Speaker A: Click on the next image. Justin, the thumbnails of all the images. [00:48:41] Speaker C: You really don't need to do a promo, guys. [00:48:43] Speaker A: No, I want to look. [00:48:46] Speaker C: Okay, well, beautiful photos. Each year we do a local calendar and each year it's definitely a challenge to try and come up with 12 new images for from our local area. Because like last year, for example, we were away in February. We were away in July, August, only for a few weeks, but. And then we were away for our honeymoon for six weeks. So we hardly have any photos for our calendar this year. So we are on a mission now. 12 new photos. [00:49:17] Speaker B: And are the photos, do they reflect each season or are they literally taken in that month or is it just. [00:49:23] Speaker C: Reflecting of the season? [00:49:26] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. [00:49:27] Speaker C: Yeah. So for example, the aurora photo, that could be any time of the year, but we rarely get good photos in January because of how harsh the light is here. [00:49:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:37] Speaker C: And besides, sunrise is so early and sunset is so late that, you know, getting up for sunrise is a pain in the butt and going out to shoot after dinner is a pain in the butt. [00:49:48] Speaker A: So. [00:49:48] Speaker C: So we don't tend to do a lot of photography in summertime. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Plus it's school holidays, which for bright is like a crazy time. So there's going to be people around the gallery and I'm sure you guys are working flat out. [00:50:01] Speaker C: Yeah, so, yeah, that makes sense. So summertime tends to be whatever doesn't quite fit and doesn't look too wintry or autumn. Yeah, so. So the second one across just made me think of all the summers I've really enjoyed being at the river. So that's why that one's in February. And then obviously we go into autumn and the next three are autumn. And then clearly the snow is winter. And then spring, you know, we get a bit of fog through spring, so we've got that. And then I spray specifically went to Mount Beauty to photograph the Mount Beauty gorge. Because Mount Beauty is definitely a place that's very beautiful but not as well recognized as Bright. But it's just, you know, 20 minutes over the hill. And then, you know, we try and have a mix of bright photos. Mount Buffalo, Falls Creek, Mount Hotham. Yeah. [00:51:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. David. David says early arrival beef hoppers were lucky enough to be given an alpine find light calendar. [00:51:13] Speaker C: Pleasure. [00:51:22] Speaker B: That's very cool. Anyway, website. [00:51:25] Speaker C: Thank you. Matt designed the website. Pardon me. Matt's very good at web design and actually I might segue because you asked a question earlier, Justin, that I do want to. To get back to and that was about supporting two photographers. [00:51:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:43] Speaker C: And you know this, so I'll tell you, it's exciting. What we did realize is it can barely support two photographers. It can happily support one photographer, but it can barely support two. So Matt has come up with a fantastic new business which I know you've had a little try of. I didn't get to watch last week's episode, but I think you mentioned it. So he has a brand. [00:52:10] Speaker A: We did talk. We didn't get a chance to submit photos. [00:52:13] Speaker C: Okay. [00:52:13] Speaker B: We're dragging our feet. But we are. We have a plan. Greg and me and Jim are all going to. And maybe Grant as well are all going to submit. [00:52:22] Speaker C: Well, do it quickly because you might know. [00:52:25] Speaker B: I know. And. But then put a deadline on it. I believe Matt's going to come on and, and roast us and then also crown someone the champ, which is the opposite of what the website's for. [00:52:39] Speaker C: What I will say about Matt is he is the best judge I've ever heard speak about visual art. He is so good at explaining why things work and why things don't. And what he said sees. So when I listen. So. But we both do judging for the Professional Photography Awards and when I listen to him judging a category like photojournalism, for example, what he sees in the image at first glance, most people don't see until they've been looking at it for five minutes. He is so astute at taking in all the information in a split second and he'll notice like the correlation between the story that's, you know, obviously happening and like the wall markings or, you know, a little snippet that, you know, most people would do. You know what I mean? Like he's so good at seeing everything and so. Yeah. So his business, for those of you who don't know, because I've just kind of launched into. So he. It's called photokaizen and kaizen is apparently the Japanese word for continual learning. [00:53:51] Speaker A: Yep. So continuing improvement. Continual learning. Yep. [00:53:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Continuous improvement. Yeah. So the idea is that it. His website is set up so that you can submit images and get photo critique without having to enter competitions, without having to do one on one mentoring. But it's. It's it's not live yet. So, so don't. I mean, you can join up, but he would prefer at the moment when it's not quite live yet, to have people who know exactly what they're in for. And it's basically in testing. So recognize that it is the testing phase. But yeah, if you do want to submit. But can I just ask. Maybe not everyone do it this week because he's actually having a week off and he will feel compelled, compelled to give you feedback straight away. So maybe wait till. Until next week because I'm taking. So we've each got five days off because as you alluded to, the school holidays in bright mean that December, January are crazy busy for us. So in February we either go away or we take five days off in a row. So his five days off in a row started yesterday. So if you can wait till Monday if you want to do this, that would be awesome because then he's in the gallery the whole week and he'll be very happy to do the critique. [00:55:13] Speaker A: Yeah, nice. [00:55:14] Speaker B: All right, that's a good plan. That's a good plan. [00:55:16] Speaker C: Anyway, I don't want to dwell too much on that because I don't think he was expecting me to talk about it, so that's okay. [00:55:22] Speaker A: But I will. I will add another segue if I could. Justin, can I share a screen? [00:55:27] Speaker B: Go for it. Hang on, let me remove this for you. [00:55:31] Speaker A: Speaking of awards, Mika, I came across this on your website. This is a list of the awards and. And honorary mentions that you've received throughout your career. You've been a very, very busy photographer. [00:55:50] Speaker B: Look at that. [00:55:51] Speaker C: Okay, let me explain. Let me. [00:55:52] Speaker A: No, no, no, hang on. Just let the people absorb. Look at 2019. [00:55:57] Speaker B: Keep scrolling. Look at 2019. 19. [00:56:03] Speaker C: I really need to explain this. So the. [00:56:05] Speaker A: It just keeps going. [00:56:07] Speaker C: When I was living up in the. Kimberly, I didn't. I wasn't a member of the aipp. I didn't have connections to other photographers. I was kind of bashing away by myself and I needed some way of, I guess, improving my work. And the only way that I could see, see to improve my work was through the Australian Photographic Society Honours System and through the Australian Photographic Society, they. We also have membership of fiat, which is the Federation International de l'art Photographique, which is essentially the European Honors and distinctions main body. So there's lots of different organizations that provide this kind of thing. But because the APS was closely affiliated with fiat, that's what I decided to do. So the way that I looked at it was in order to improve your photography. It's a good idea to see what photographs do well and try and aim for that level of photography. So when you enter these into international competitions, you get a catalogue of work at the end of it and you see all the award winning images and the accepted images. Each competition has an exhibition at the end of it, whether it's digital or print and all of the images that are exhibited are in the catalogue. So you end up getting all these amazing catalogues of international work. And it was a way of working towards a goal. So both the APS honors and the fiat distinctions you can do hand in hand at the same time. And it was a long term project but when I was up in the Kimberley it just was the right thing for me to do to. To have motivation to improve but also to be incrementally improving over the years. So that's why there's so many. Because I was like trying to achieve my honors. [00:58:13] Speaker B: Wow. [00:58:15] Speaker A: That's a lot. [00:58:16] Speaker B: It might also. Because you're quite an amazing photographer. I think there's that as well. So. [00:58:22] Speaker A: Speaking of which. Hang on. Sorry. [00:58:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:26] Speaker A: Good morning Matt. A couple of points. Why are you an hour late joining me on your partner's debut on the Camera Life podcast? But Matt says he's tuned in expecting to hear about Mika but only hearing about her mediocre partner. [00:58:44] Speaker C: Yeah, he's so humble. You'll never ever hear Matt say he's any good. And he's freaking. [00:58:49] Speaker A: When you look at this, when you look at this list, Matt, how could you feel nothing else. But that's. [00:58:53] Speaker B: That's a good question, Matt. What's your list look like compared to that? I think maybe we should have like a list. [00:58:58] Speaker C: I know he's got. He's got heaps as well. [00:59:00] Speaker B: His is pretty long. [00:59:01] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean he won Australian Photography for of the Year. That's certainly something. [00:59:06] Speaker A: Yeah. But we're not talking about him today, so. [00:59:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:07] Speaker A: Yeah. Matt said he slept in because he goes to bed far too late. Yeah. Guilty of that. And Amanda has said. Sorry, just one last question. Sorry, Justin, I keep cutting you off. What a great offering by Matt. Talking about Photo Kaizen. [00:59:22] Speaker B: I can't wait to see how Photo Kaiser evolves. It's going to be. It's going to be great. I think it is something that's missing in. [00:59:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:31] Speaker B: In being able to get useful like tangible critiques without having to put yourself head to head against other photographers. Or. Or before you want to put yourself against other photographers. Either. Either you're not interested in comps or you just want to evolve a bit before you put that work into a competition or refine something. I think it's. It's amazing. [00:59:54] Speaker C: So this is the thing. If I were where I was in Broome and photokaizen was available, I would have picked photokaizen over the Fiat and APS Honors system. Do you know what I mean? All I really wanted was a way to improve and get quality feedback. When I first started out, I was lucky that I joined a website called Australian Digital photo of the Day, which was brilliant, run by a couple of guys, Russell and Bernie, and they would literally pick a photo of the day every day and then there would be a photo of the month. And that's where I started when I still had my little Kodak EasyShare point and shoot. And there was an unwritten rule, but it was a very strong unwritten rule that you couldn't really put your photos up for submission unless you commented on other people's work. [01:00:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:50] Speaker C: So you got quality feedback. And I was green as a grasshopper. I was not very good. But I was on there every single day for the feedback, you know. And I learned so much. Like, I remember one of my biggest learning experiences was this was when I little had my Little Kodak Easy SharePoint and Shoot. This guy Mick uploaded this amazing photo. I think it was Mick. It was either Mick or John. And it was a photo of a tree that had fallen over in the water and it was this amazing shot that had this great foreground and then a tree in the back and it just like the foreground looked massive and it just. And I was trying to get a photo like that with my little Kodak Easy Share and I. And I just, I couldn't get it and I was so frustrated. And so I finally went back to the photo and underneath I wrote, how do you do that? I can't seem to get a photo like this. And I'm pretty sure it was. Mick wrote back, you need a wide angle lens. I'd never heard of a wide angle lens. I didn't know what that was like. How do you learn this stuff if you don't have photographers around you? I do think that there is a huge gap for people who either don't want to join a camera club or can't join a camera club or don't want to enter a competition. Like it's really limited the feedback you can get. Having said that, recently I've come across a great resource for nature and landscape photographers. It's called Nature Photographers Network. So I haven't contributed to that. But if I were starting out and that's, I wanted quality feedback, that's probably where I would, would go. But now, you know, with photokaizen, I think it's going to be a lot more targeted and a lot more thorough in the feedback that you can get rather than just a couple of comments. [01:02:57] Speaker A: Just a couple of points on that. Mika, I think, I think you're right. Photography can be a very subtle, solo and isolating experience, especially if you are, you know, I identify as a, as an introvert. I'm very shy. I have a lot of, what do we call it again, Imposter syndrome. So being able to access, whether it be a service like Photo Kaizen, a mentor or even just being a part of a community like what we're trying to build here with the camera life, where you can learn from peers, where you can ask questions, it's really essential to development. You know, it's not like, especially if you're brand new to it, it's, it's kind of like handing someone a hammer and a box of nails and expecting them to know how to build a birdhouse. You know, just because you've got a camera doesn't mean you know how to use it, doesn't mean you know anything about composition or, you know, wide angle lenses or telephoto lenses is a lot of learning off that point. I want to point out that you've done an impressive amount of work. You should feel incredibly proud to build such a strong brand for yourself. You know, I think putting us even just putting aside the list of accolades and looking at the quality of work and the way that you're presenting it on your website and obviously, you know, having your own gallery space is a dream come true for many of us, but the way that you have purposefully driven your interest into passion, into employment, into a lifestyle is really impressive. And I think it's something that, you know, a lot of people can learn from that with determination and looking for opportunity to improve yourself, to expand yourself, to create better work. I think there's a lot to learn from that, that. So congratulations and well done. [01:04:51] Speaker C: Thank you. Can I, can I tell a little story along those lines, please? [01:04:55] Speaker A: We love. That's why we're here. [01:04:57] Speaker C: So some, some people who are watching already know this story, but it's, it's, it's a good one. So when I was living up in Broome and I was doing a lot of hiking at El Questro and home Valley Station, all of the, you know, really incredible, incredible Kimberley accommodation places out in the middle of nowhere. I kept bumping into people who kept saying, if you love this, you're going to love Karijini. So Karijini is down in the Pilbara, which is south of the Kimberley and some people think of them kind of together but actually they're a long way away from each other. It's a 10 hour, 10 and a half hour drive from Broome to Tom Price, so it's not exactly close. But anyway, I was, I picked up a photography magazine and there was this, I think it was called photo 500 competition or something like that and this fellow had won it and there was all his work and it was amazing. And then there was an ad for this landscape photography workshop in Carrageeni and I was like, oh man, that's perfect. I was really excited, expensive. But I was like, I think I need to do this, I think I need to do a hands on workshop. So I never heard of the fellows running it, but there were three of them. And so I requested the time off work and they said you needed a laptop with Photoshop on it. But I didn't have a laptop and I tried to like, I asked anyone at work if they would loan me their laptop but no one had one that was, was going to be free for a week. And then I contacted the computer shop and they didn't rent laptop and so I was fine. So in the end I packed up my whole entire PC, the hard drive and the monitor and I drove the 10 and a half hours to Karijini national park and found out that I was in a workshop with Tony Hewitt, Christian Fletcher and Peter east. And everyone seemed to know who these people fellows were, but I got them mixed up and everyone thought that was absolutely hilarious. So this was right at the beginning when I had a DSLR camera. I didn't really know how to use Photoshop. I'd never been able to figure out how to create a layer in Photoshop. I'd used it but I didn't know adjustment layers. So I was really, really, really new. And the cool thing was is because it was Karijini we all had to share rides and I was in the car with Tony Hewitt and he's a very inspiring person. Like just the way he thinks about the world is quite inspiring, I think. And so we were having a yarn and he was like, well you have an eye for photography, he said. And one thing that I suggest to you is pick up a book called the Outliers. By Malcolm Gladwell. He's like, there's a chapter in there on the 10,000 hour rule. He's like, it's. They didn't come up with it, but there's this thing that says if you put in 10,000 hours at any skill, you will be a master by the time you've done your 10,000 hours. And the way that Malcolm Gladwell goes into it and shows examples of this, it really resonated with me. And I got excited because I thought, all I have to do is practice. That's it. It's just like sport. And I'd been an athlete for many years prior and, you know, having to do your workout morning and night is a pain in the butt. But if you don't do it, you notice very quickly that your muscles, you know, you're in pain the next time you do it because you didn't do it repeatedly. So I applied, applied my sport thinking to the photography and just went, if I do a little bit every single day, even though I'm working full time, if I do a little bit every single day, whether it's editing or whether it's out there shooting, I'm working towards my 10,000 hours and I will get there. And that was really what my motivation was. And I don't know when I hit the 10,000 hours, but I've definitely hit the 10,000 hours. But it's like 10, 10, 12, 13, 14 years of photography to that. So basically I was on a mission and doing these comps helped keep me kind of accountable to putting in those hours. [01:09:29] Speaker B: So you would say that just consistent practice every day, half an hour, an hour, whatever you can spare for years and years and years is what led you to now being able to support yourself through landscape photography, which is in itself insanely rare. Like people that actually support their lifestyle through landscape photography and a gallery and workshops and all of those, those things that you've been able to achieve. [01:09:55] Speaker C: So I wouldn't necessarily agree with that statement. What I would agree with is you become skilled enough to make beautiful work. Like you become an excellent photographer, but the, the skills involved in opening a gallery are completely different and the skills involved in running workshops are completely different. [01:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:16] Speaker C: And so it's almost like you need 10,000 hours in different things if you want to be as good at them. [01:10:23] Speaker B: Very true. I was, I was probably going the wrong direction in terms of, like, it made you into a photographer that is capable of, of having the work. Because, because, I mean, I guess you could, you could build a business around Average work. If you, you know, if you. An excellent business person. Yeah, yeah. To be able to run a successful gallery, you can't be a shit photographer. You just can't, you know. [01:10:45] Speaker A: So. [01:10:45] Speaker B: No, yeah. So to. What I more meant was, yeah, to get yourself to the level of photography required to even have the conversation about could I build a business around this? Yeah, it was just consistent practice a little bit. [01:10:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:59] Speaker C: And so, so often we do get younger photographers come in and you know, they, they see that we're doing this and they want to do that and often I'll get questions around that and we're quite, you know, whenever someone comes in with a question, we're very happy to have a chat. So I do get these chats and the first thing that I say to people is, you need to have a long term plan because it took 10 years of, you know, working towards this to have this and to have a body of work that's deep enough to have a gallery. Because once you've opened a gallery, you no longer. Well, normally last year was an exception, but you're pretty much tied to the gallery and you kind of have to close the gallery if you go and take photos. So you need enough photos before for opening the gallery because once you've opened the gallery, you're, you, you've got too many other commitments and you don't get to take as much work time, time to shoot. [01:12:03] Speaker A: So how do you manage that? Well, do you and Matt take it in turns? [01:12:08] Speaker C: Oh, okay. So basically there's a few things that involved. We are open 10am to 4pm which most of the year means that you can actually do a sunrise or a sunset shoot before or after. We're closed one day a week on Wednesdays. And that gives us an opportunity that if there's good weather we can go off and make the most of that. But we also give each other. That sounds wrong, but you'll understand. We give each other one extra day off a week. So we both have Wednesday off and then each of us has another day off. So we don't have weekends. There's no such thing as weekends anymore. But we get a Wednesday and another day and usually we'll. Well, I, I tend to do it more than Matt at the moment because he's working on his business. But I'll look at the weather and say, hey, it's looking really good on Tuesday. Can I take Tuesday off? And so he'll be in the gallery on Tuesday and I'll go hiking and get sunburnt on my day off and then, you know, we just make sure that if opportunities come up, we talk about them. So for example, the last two, last three times in the last four years I think it is, we've been in New Zealand to judge the professional photography awards over there. And so we've taken time off to do our own photography while we're there. And so we actually really like shooting together. One of the things that I enjoy most is at the end of a day shooting together we'll show each other what we've taken photos of and it's invariably completely different. It's amazing. We see so differently and I love how Matt sees the world. So that experience is just wonderful. So we, we, I think both of us were a bit skeptical about being able to shoot with someone else enjoyably. But the truth is, is we don't really talk to each other and that's how we like it. Like we just go to a place and we might not even talk on the way there if it's in the morning because Matt is not much of a morning person. So often it'll be quiet on the way there and then we'll shoot and then we'll talk on the way home like. But it's just really nice that we can enjoy each other's company without feeling the need to fill it with noise. [01:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it's. That is very, very, very cool. I'm just gonna take a little pause because I think we've got. We might have Mika for like maybe half an hour more because she's got a gallery to run. [01:14:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:37] Speaker B: So this is your chance if you're listening. A lot of people have just joined us recently. We normally go live at 9am so we've got, we got. Our listeners have doubled since 9:00. Good to see you all here. We've got an award winning landscape photographer, co owner of Alpine Light Gallery, Mika Bo, appointed here. [01:14:55] Speaker C: I thought you were talking about someone else. No, you, you, you're the award winner. [01:15:02] Speaker B: Someone's joining us. You're. You're done now? We've got someone else. Yeah, they also own a gallery. No, you're here, you're with us. This is your chance. If you're listening along, ask questions in the live chat, we'll bring them up on the screen, you can answer anything. We're gonna. In the next half an hour I'm hoping to, to get to some stuff about gear because that's always fun. Just find out what you're shooting with. We can ask more questions about like editing, printing, how to be an epic photographer, which we've already learned, to be an epic photographer, you just do 10,000 hours and it's done. It's that simple. [01:15:36] Speaker A: Let's jump to some comments. [01:15:38] Speaker B: Some comments here. Oh, no, I've forgotten. Jason, Jason, Jason, Jason. That's right. He says, similar to Ansel Adams idea, the mantra that you first 10,000 photos are rubbish. Which is true. Unless you've got like a modern camera that shoots 40 frames a second, in which case probably your first 50,000 or 100,000 photos are rubbish. [01:16:00] Speaker C: I like that. But I think if you think that your photos are rubbish right from the beginning, then there's not much incentive to keep going. So I think that you have to believe that some of your first 10,000 shots are great. [01:16:13] Speaker B: Good. [01:16:13] Speaker C: Otherwise you won't get to the 10,000 shots. [01:16:16] Speaker B: I always had this push and pull thing where it was like I. I could go from feeling like I had done something amazing to feeling like I'm so far behind and have so far to go in the space of the same shoot, you know, looking at my, my photos and stuff like that. And it all depends on like frame of mind. And I think unless you're getting both those feelings, like you say, if you're not getting that feeling of, wow, that looks beautiful. I've done a great job. I'm really excited by this photo that I took. If you don't get that regularly, you're going to struggle to keep doing the thing. But on the other hand, if you don't get a beat down regularly about how much you still got to learn, which was something that, because Jim and I work together side by side for so many years, we would just beat each other down after weddings to make sure that neither of us thought we were too good. We could just browse over at the other person's computer and be like, dude, what have you done? That looks terrible. And it was. It's a good way to keep progressing forward and not just be like, I'm good enough now. That's it, I'm done. You know, so there's. There was always two mindsets I could fall into. And it sort of depended on what my mood was like or what the photos happened to be like from that shoot or whatever. As to whether I felt like, man, I've got so far to go, or, wow, I'm actually really starting to get good at this thing and you need both. [01:17:40] Speaker A: I think I fall into the mindset that. Sorry, Mika, just on your point about, you know, that don't think that your Photos are rubbish. Even your early stuff. I think every photo is a good photo. What makes a photo bad is if you don't learn from it or the experience of when you actually shot it. You know, if. If you can't look at one of your photos and think, okay, so didn't quite get the subject separation, that's because I had it at f 2.8. If I went, dropped it down to f 2 or 1.8, then I'm. Then I'm learning from that photo that next time. That's what I want to do, I think. Yeah, but I certainly agree with the, you know, the 10,000, the 10,000 rule. I think it's, you know, to be a master at a craft or a master in any field, it takes time. [01:18:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:18:30] Speaker A: You know, it takes years of experience. [01:18:33] Speaker C: I think if I had started photography before digital was available, I wouldn't be a photographer. And what I mean by that is I do learn by doing and I'm not. My brain is not oriented towards maths and I. There's a lot of maths involved in film photography that is not necessary for digital photography because the machine does it for you. So, for example, I know my apertures, but I'm not completely up to speed with shutter speed. I can't tell you what freezes what at what shutter speed, but it's not necessary because I use a tripod. So as long as I know my depth of field and as long as I know where to focus and my camera's on a tripod and there's no wind, it doesn't matter how long the shutter speed is. Does that make sense? So, yeah. So I just feel like if I had. If digital hadn't been invented by the time I was ready to do photography, then I probably wouldn't be a photographer. And going back to your comment me, Justin, just because you brought it up early in the piece about social media, what I do want to say about social media is I think all of us have that, you know, I'm great, I'm shit, I'm great, I'm shit kind of situation in our heads. I think it's very natural to oscillate between those two states of being. And I think what the important thing is is to be able to recognize where you are on that pendulum. Because, for example, like, I. I think I have the most positive, supportive Facebook page of anybody I know. People are so lovely. It would be really easy for me to think I'm. I'm good because people are writing that all the time, which is really, really lovely. But then I go to Instagram and I just see these incredible images because I, I, I'm, I'm probably an anomaly, but Instagram is like where I see everybody's work. I don't have that set up on Facebook. I only have it set up on Instagram. So if I follow you on Instagram, know that you are actually being followed, because I, that's where I go for my inspiration. But, but, you know, sometimes if I'm feeling vulnerable, I turn everything off because I know that the feelings that I'm having will be exacerbated if I'm looking at really incredible work and I'm feeling, I'm already feeling a bit low and I see all of that, and then I just feel like, well, what's the point? You know? So I think the important thing is knowing where your brain is at and either feeding your feelings or removing the exacerbation from your feelings accordingly. [01:21:30] Speaker A: Yeah, beautiful. [01:21:32] Speaker B: Very beautiful. Matt had a little comment here, too. Just about the 10,000 hours, he said. With regards to your first 10,000 hours, I recommend any creative. Watch the Gap by Ira Glass. It's a great brief discussion of some of the creative turmoil you might go through. I'll have to check that out. I haven't seen it. [01:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah, that's very cool. There was a question from David. [01:21:52] Speaker B: Yes, I'll bring it up. Go, Greg. [01:21:57] Speaker A: Mika, do you ever have someone open the gallery for you? [01:22:02] Speaker C: No. So basically, when we travel, we close the gallery, but it's something that we've talked about. The thing is that we have mainly traveled at times of the year when it's not busy. And the cost of putting someone in the gallery, it basically would be pouring money down the drain. So if we get to the point where we want to go away during a busy time, then that would be a time to bring someone on. And we're lucky enough we've already been approached by at least one person who's like, I really want to run your gallery for you. So that's pretty cool. But one of the reasons people do enjoy our gallery is because Matt and I are in it and they get to meet the photographer who created the work and hear the actual story of how it was created and where it was created and what we were thinking and whether we broke a lens in the process. And, you know, all those kind of things factor in to the experience. And we like to think when people come to the gallery, it's more than just a shop. It's actually a place where, you know, you can have those conversations and enjoy meeting the photographer. [01:23:19] Speaker A: And I think that further enhances that. What I was talking about earlier about you, I was referencing your, your photography brand as opposed to the gallery. But I think it all adds to the, to that brand image that going to the gallery, you're not talking to someone that says, I'll have to get back to you on that because I don't know what camera they used or what lens or, you know, what it was, what time of day or even, you know, speaking to the actual photographers enhances that experience. For anyone visiting the gallery, just a very quick question, just on a ratio, what do you think the mix is of art you sell, images you sell in the gallery versus the online store? [01:23:59] Speaker C: The gallery? Yeah, galleries, probably 90, 95%. [01:24:05] Speaker A: Oh wow. [01:24:07] Speaker C: Part of that as well is before we opened, we had a chat about pricing and my, my dad, as I mentioned, my, my mum and dad opened Boynton's, a bright winery, when it was Boynton's of bright. And one thing that my dad said is you should be able to get the product cheapest at the place that creates it. So he never sold his wife wine to Dan Murphy's. He, he never had it available at a place that could undercut the pricing of the cellar door sales room. And so when we talked about the gallery, we wanted the same kind of thing. We wanted people to be able to get the best price when they come to the gallery. So as a consequence of that, when people come into the gallery and they look like they might be thinking of purchasing something down the track, we always say to them, just so you're aware, the website pricing is a bit higher than the gallery pricing because we want people to come to the gallery. So if you decide to purchase something, just get in touch with us and we'll do an invoice for the gallery price. And people feel a bit special, you know, when, when they know that's a possibility. And we want to really encourage people to come to the gallery because we are in a relatively. Well, we are in a regional slash remote. It's not remote when you've lived up in the Kimberley, but it's, it's definitely off the beaten path in terms of drive through traffic. So. So yeah, we made that decision right from the beginning. So I think that factors in a little bit to the sales through the website because if anyone's been to the gallery, they actually email us. So it's not a purchase through the website, right? [01:25:54] Speaker A: Yep, yep. Love it. Very cool. And, and for anyone who's wondering. Bright is access. If you don't have a car or if you're, you know, a young photographer and you want to head to Bright and while you're there, check out the gallery, you can get a V Line train from Southern Cross most of the way and then a bus that stops outside the pub just near the roundabout in the middle of Bright. It's only a very, very, very short walk around the corner to the gallery. You know, when we went to Beop, I didn't have access to a car. Justin had his van parked at the caravan park and we just walked or, you know, strolled everywhere. It's beautiful, beautiful area. [01:26:32] Speaker C: And just to be clear, it's not like the website pricing is way more. So it's not like if you did order through the website, you're paying like $500 more for a print. No, I mean, we're, yeah, talking negligible, negligible difference, but we, we just want to make sure that, you know, people who have been to the gallery are rewarded for that. [01:26:56] Speaker B: Yeah, that makes total sense. [01:26:58] Speaker A: Yeah, makes total sense. [01:26:59] Speaker B: Now, in our very short time we've got left with you, I do want to really ask you about your gear because it'll be fun. But Jim also just asked a question because he's probably busy packing orders for Lucky. [01:27:11] Speaker A: Just someone's got to earn the money. [01:27:13] Speaker B: Someone'S got to do the work. In case anyone hasn't checked out, Lucky straps, go to Lucky Straps.com we make the best camera straps there are. Jim says, sorry if I missed it. How often are you shooting to supply, slash, fill the gallery, which we kind of talked about before, but, but yeah, like, how do you. Do you guys force yourselves to try and get out a certain number of times a month or a week or anything like that, or is it just. [01:27:34] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So we don't have a schedule, obviously, because the weather is such a huge part of landscape photography and if the weather's boring, then there's no point going out. And that's the truth. And also, we've definitely spent time exploring our local area. So unless it's going to give conditions that give us a different result, then we've already got, you know, a lot of the local areas photographed. So for me, I love photography. I love being out in nature. That's the experience of photography is more important to me than the end result. And that's the truth. And I've questioned myself about that. I'm like, is that really true? Yes. Yes, it is. I, I went on this hike and I Didn't get anything worth putting on the walls of the gallery. Maybe as an A3, but not, you know, but you know, I enjoyed that experience and I would do it if I was in the same. I won't do it again now but if I was in the same mind frame I would, I would definitely make all those decisions again because it's the, it's the enjoyment of being out in nature and kind of feeling and seeing and smelling and listening and just being in a space where you're not thinking about the everyday stuff. It's, it takes me away and I guess it's kind of maybe self meditative. Maybe it's, I don't know. But anyway it's rejuvenating for me and so I do try and photograph as often as possible. Now what does that mean? Well, it means in, in a normal year, which isn't last year because last year we went to Norway, Finland, New Zealand, Croatia, Italy and Slovenia. In a normal year when we're not not doing incredible travel like that, it might mean once a week, once every two weeks. So it's not, it's not, it's not busy. But if I have a day off and the fog is good, for example, I'll probably shoot from 7am Till lunchtime. [01:29:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:42] Speaker C: So yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:29:46] Speaker B: And it can depend too. In one of those shoots you might get two or three gallery worthy pieces and then like you say, then you strike out the next three shoots. But yeah, you know like it's, it's very dependent on conditions and just. Yeah. How it all unfolds. Yeah, that's the night. That's the nature of it. [01:30:02] Speaker A: Now speaking of which, what, what, what is your, what is your brand of choice? What camera? [01:30:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm a Nikon shooter. I'm a proud Nikon shooter. I'm actually a Nikon school instructor. [01:30:15] Speaker B: Really? Of course you are. [01:30:17] Speaker C: Yes. And I've actually got an upcoming abstract class if people are interested in doing my class. It's very, very reasonably priced. I think it's 11.25. [01:30:27] Speaker B: How would they, how would they get onto that? [01:30:30] Speaker C: Where do they event? Right. If you just go and invent bright and type in Nikon Mika, you'll get, you'll probably get it because money, but spell it right. M I E Like friend. [01:30:40] Speaker B: Like friend friend. Mika like sneaker. I E like friend. [01:30:44] Speaker C: Yep. So yeah, Nikon. And, and I'll be perfectly honest, I have a Nikon because my parents bought me a Nikon when they bought me my first dslr and I loved it and have never, never wanted to. To switch. When the D800 came out, that was such a big game changer. It was. It really, really sent shockwaves anywhere. And I got one of the first ones. I actually rang three different camera shops and I said, what's your wait list? Because you know there was a wait list for the day 800 because everyone knew it was going to be amazing. And the one shop that said there were two shops that said we can't tell you that. And there was one shot that said we've got two and we're likely to get six. I was like, put me on the list, baby. So I was one of the first to get the D800 which was very exciting. I upgraded to the D810. I got the Z7 but was a bit on the fence about it. But now have the Z8 and love. [01:31:44] Speaker B: It to bits with yeah, gym shoots are the. The Z8s as well. But we. So I used to be Nikon, now proudly back to Canon. Love you, Cannon. Do you. Did you ever shoot with a D850? No. [01:32:02] Speaker C: No. I did see the D850 and I was jealous, but I wasn't. [01:32:07] Speaker B: Is the best DSLR that, that I would say, I would say ever made. I'd say it's the best DSLR ever made. It was robust, epic sensor, very similar sensor to the Z7. So you're probably getting similar images but just the, the layout of the body, it was so durable. Everything worked. It was just. Yeah. The way cameras were supposed to be. [01:32:28] Speaker C: The truth is the D810 was a fantastic workhorse camera and I used that the longest and those photos still definitely stand up. You know, the D850 came out kind of too soon after the D810 for me to switch. And if the mirrorless hadn't come along and I hadn't experienced the weight issues of carrying the dslr, then I probably wouldn't have switched to mirrorless. I'd still probably be using the D810. It's a fantastic camera, but the D850 had the extra bells and whistles and megapixels. So yeah, I, Yeah, I. The Z8 has a few extra bits and pieces that I really like. From a photographer perspective, having the fact that you don't need to go to bulb after 30 seconds that you can actually do like a one and a half minute exposure without needing a remote release. That kind of stuff, those little things, they seem little but it actually makes a big difference. Like I really don't use a remote release anymore. I use a 2 second delay simply because I can do like a long exposure in the camera settings that I used to have to have a remote release for. [01:33:49] Speaker B: So just for those listening that might not have done that kind of shot before, just explain why you would use a two second timer and then onto a longer shutter on a tripod. Like what would be the situation and what benefit is that timer? [01:34:05] Speaker C: Yeah, basically any situation where you've got your camera on a tripod and there's a chance that by pressing the shutter you even just fractionally move the camera. Any situation where that's relevant, it's worth putting on a delay simply because it gives time for the camera to settle from that minute movement. So that when the shutter goes, it is rock solid steady without any kind of wobble. If it's a situation where the tripod is definitely unstable, like it's windy or you know that it's, it's just, it's in a position that makes it a little bit less stable, I will do a five second delay to ensure that the camera is completely stable when the shot begins. Because the thing is, is you can get movement in that first split second and you will see it in the results. So ensuring that, that, that the camera is absolutely stable, rock solid before the photo begins is really important. [01:35:15] Speaker B: Yep, love it. [01:35:17] Speaker A: And what about lenses? What about. Sorry, Justin, what about, what do you. Okay, what do you go to? [01:35:23] Speaker C: Definitely have my favorites and I'm unlike. [01:35:25] Speaker A: Yeah, what are they? [01:35:26] Speaker C: Buy anything new? Because I love my kit. I have the 70-200F mount lens which I use the adapter for. So that adds a bit of weight, the FTZ adapter. But it means that you can use your DSLR lenses with the mirrorless camera. And I mean we, we have a gallery and everything, but we're not made of money. So being able to keep the lenses that I was using with the D810 was a factor in upgrading to the mirrorless. So I've still got my DSLR lenses. So I've got the 2470 F2.8. I've got the 70 to 200 F2.8. Both of them, I use them both equally. I really love having both in the kit. I rarely go anywhere without both of them. Then I also have two dedicated fixed focal length prime manual lenses for wide angles for night photography. So I have a 15mil Zeiss and a 21mil Zeiss. They're both ultra sharp. Zeiss is well known for making binoculars. Their glass is fantastic and I lenses. [01:36:47] Speaker A: Have Zeiss glass too. And Sony. Sony used ice. [01:36:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:36:52] Speaker C: So I've had them since I first got a full frame DSLR. So since the D800, and again, just for financial reasons, there was absolutely no point in me getting more lenses. So those two lenses are very sharp and fast, and I use them for night photography essentially, like almost. Almost exclusively for night photography because you get the whole night sky. So if you're photographing Milky Way, aurora, whatever, then having an ultra wide mil. Ultra wide angle lens is really helpful. And then I also have Zeiss 100 mil that I do almost all my aerial photography with. And then I have it. And then I have a Nikon 50 mil old film lens. It's an f1.2, which I have for aerials as well. [01:37:47] Speaker B: Nice. [01:37:48] Speaker A: Wow. Very cool. [01:37:51] Speaker B: All right, questions. What have I got? So you're using the Z8. That's your main body? [01:37:56] Speaker C: Yes. [01:37:57] Speaker B: First of all, if I ask everyone this zombie apocalypse is here, you have to grab one camera and one lens. It can be something you've got. It can be anything from anywhere, any camera, anytime. What do you grab to document the end of the world? [01:38:14] Speaker C: Yeah, grab my own. Because I know it. And I feel like you knowing your system is the. Is the most important thing. It doesn't matter about the camera, brand. They're all really, really good as long as you know how to use it. So I would grab my Z8 and I would grab my 2470. [01:38:32] Speaker B: Nice. Just workhorse. You can do it all with that. Yeah. Very cool. Another question. So landscape photography to be shown in a gallery where people are going to spend thousands of dollars on beautiful, large pieces of artwork. You're probably one of the very few people that can legitimately be like, I need a high megapixel camera. You know, like, you know, it's not. You're not just putting stuff up on Instagram. Like, your work gets printed large and then people pay money for it. How important are megapixels for you? Is that something that you're conscious of and thinking, okay, I've got to stay up to date to get my quality higher and higher. Does it not really matter? Yeah, talk to us about megapixels. [01:39:21] Speaker C: So megapixels are definitely important. And, you know, when I, when people do come in and chat and they say that they take photos with their iPhone, I say, brilliant, that's awesome. Because it means that you're seeing the world in an artistic way. You know, you're really trying to compose things. You're, you know, you're involved in that moment, more than what you would be with without a camera. But when you go to print, yes, those megapixels make a huge difference. So the native file size, which with the Z8 is 8256 by 5504 megapixels. Nice PPI. So, so that's, that's the native file size which is big. I tend to not do a lot of cropping. I tend to try and compose so that I don't have to crop because I feel like if you can get it right in camera, then you've got more megapixels to work with. When it comes to making a decision about getting a camera with higher megapixels, like for example, a lot of people ask if we go to medium format, the weight and the bulkiness factor certainly make a difference there. And I'm probably more likely to go lighter than I am to go medium format simply because of the bulkiness and the weight of the medium format cameras. So I'm quite happy with the Z8. But I'll also mention that to create our biggest prints, we've now got technology available to us to enlarge with software. So we have gigapixel AI that allows us to extrapolate the data that we've captured and increase the size, the file size so that the native print size is the file size, if that makes sense. So we examine our images very closely to ensure that the integrity is there and there's no hidden Ryan Goslings, if you don't know about that, go look it up. But no, we, we, we, we try to capture as much as possible exactly as it is. And then if it's necessary to use software to enlarge the image, then we have that available to us. [01:41:55] Speaker A: Y. Yeah. Very cool. It's very conscious of time too. [01:41:59] Speaker B: Yeah, me too. I, I've got one more question and actually there's, there's one more in the comments as well. So one quick one in the comments from Jason. Do you ever use your WI FI phone connection to trip the shutter? [01:42:10] Speaker C: I don't simply because a lot of the time where I'm shooting, it's not connected. You know, I don't have good network connection. It's just easier to, to have a setup where you're not thinking, you're not assessing, you're not making, you know, like you just looking at the important, important things. And so I don't, I have, I actually have airplane mode on, on my Z8 because I, I don't want it Chewing up battery, trying to find a network. Yeah, so, yeah, no, I, I never use that. And it's, it's simply a connectivity issue with where I live. [01:42:49] Speaker B: Last question before we let you go and open your gallery. I saw this on a, on an F Stoppers article and I was like, I think this is a great question to ask. Is it okay to love an image, see it and just love it, then find out that it was made with AI and hate it? [01:43:10] Speaker C: Is it okay to do that? [01:43:12] Speaker B: Yep, yep. I, I agree. And I don't know why, but I'm like, yeah, yeah, I think that's. [01:43:20] Speaker C: We were having a little chat before we started, we were having a little chat about. Oh, no, maybe we were even on. I don't know. But we were talking like when. Oh yeah, that's right. No, you did say. Because my tagline on Instagram is real photos. [01:43:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:43:36] Speaker C: And it's because there was a time when my Explore feed in Instagram was all AI created images which are not photographs. And I'm only interested in photographs because I have such care for the environment and the real world and places that exist and the feeling that you get when you go to places and explore and all of those things factor in. And I feel like AI created imagery has none of that. And so, yeah, I'm disappointed. If I see something and I go to the person's bio and it says digital creator, then I think, well, 99% sure that's AI and I'm not interested in that. And I do find that when people come to the gallery, they want to know the story, they want to know the authenticity of the image. There is a human element in landscape photography, or photography in general, that, that matters. It's absolutely. You can have a beautiful image, is a beautiful image, no doubt about it. But there's something in authenticity that really matters to me and I think that goes back to loving nature and just really appreciating the real world and the luck involved in being there at the right time with the right conditions and the joy you get when you experience something incredibly special. AI can't do that. It can't give you that experience. And therefore my involvement in that image is negligible. [01:45:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's a real shame that amazing AI has been geared, and it's the most popular hype, you hear about it, to simplify workflows and processes, when in actual fact, as humans, we need to be spending more time creating real art and letting the robots and the computers deal with the mundane day to day stuff. But at the moment, it's the other way around. We're basically just making art into another chain of convenience stores. It's easy, it's simple. [01:45:56] Speaker C: Matt jumped on board with the AI stuff early on and he, like, he showed me what he did with it. It's incredible and, and fascinating and. And like, I like it for sure, but it's not photography and. [01:46:10] Speaker A: No, it's different. Yeah. [01:46:11] Speaker C: Yeah. And I don't. I, like, I'm happy to say that, you know, there's lots of different types of art where I'm like, oh, that's really cool, but I wouldn't want to buy it and I wouldn't want it on my wall and. And it's not photography. So, like, I think as long as you call a spade a spade and go, well, that's that thing, and that's not what I'm into, then great. No worries. [01:46:31] Speaker B: All good. [01:46:32] Speaker A: Just a little side note, just before we let you go, a company in the US has just secured the first ever copyright protection for an artwork entirely generated by AI from the US Copyright Office. [01:46:43] Speaker B: That just. [01:46:44] Speaker A: It is weird. It's weird to know. So it's an interesting topic and it's one that we keep covering here on the Camera Life podcast because it is, as I said, you know, it's. It's this convenient set of tools that, yes, you know, can create images and now video, and very compelling and convincing, too. It's getting very, very hard to tell the difference. And I think overnight, I think Adobe just launched an AI video creation tool or update to one of their existing platforms. You know, it's here to stay. We, we're not necessarily going to shout it down because too many big corporations have their hands in it. [01:47:26] Speaker C: We have to accept it. It's. Yeah, yeah. Sticking your head in the sand. It is, it is here. It's here to stay. It's going to increase, it's going to be ubiquitous. But what I have found is in terms of appreciation, we are getting more appreciated as the photographers who created the images, because we are and because people really like that human element. So I don't think it's necessarily threatening to everyone. It's definitely threatening to certain genres of photography, but I feel like with landscape photography and nature photography, there's no substitute for the real thing. [01:48:10] Speaker A: Yep, agreed. [01:48:11] Speaker B: I think. I think we should leave it on that. Well, we'll. We'll let you go. We'll let you go and start your day. Greg and I might stay on for five or 10 minutes and go through some of These comments. But thank you so much for your time. We're going to have to have you back on to dig in. We could have talked about all your trips last year and there's so much that we can talk about. [01:48:29] Speaker A: Maybe we can make a podcast just. Just on you for the next six months. You lose all your schedule that in. [01:48:37] Speaker B: We'll do a full season. Thank you very much. If anyone's keen to dig into more of your work, we'll put all the links to everything. Most of them already in the description. But we'll put more if we need to put more. Yeah. With that. Thank you so much. [01:48:50] Speaker C: Thanks, guys. And I look forward to seeing you in October. [01:48:53] Speaker B: I will be there and. [01:48:55] Speaker C: Or a Spartan if you. [01:48:57] Speaker A: I'm not doing. I'm not a sparker. [01:48:59] Speaker B: I'll see you in October, Justin. [01:49:03] Speaker C: I'll see you then. [01:49:04] Speaker B: I'll hobble past. Philip Johnson says. Thank you, Mika. And thanks, Philip. [01:49:08] Speaker C: Great to see you. I look forward to meeting you in person one day. Philip. The photo behind me, actually, Philip was. I was very green. He was an amazing photographer and his work on beautiful snow gums and. And eucalypts inspired me a lot. We were both on a website called Redbubble. And if I haven't had a chance to tell you, Philip, but your. Your beautiful misty tree photos were hugely inspiring to me when I was. [01:49:37] Speaker A: Oh, look at that, Philip. [01:49:40] Speaker B: So cool. Awesome. Philip. Bruce. Thanks. Paul says thanks. [01:49:46] Speaker C: Ah, hi. All right, well, thanks, everyone. Everyone. I better go open up. [01:49:51] Speaker A: Okay. Enjoy your day. [01:49:52] Speaker C: I will. I'll leave you in peace and. And we'll talk. [01:49:57] Speaker B: Whoop. She gone. [01:49:58] Speaker A: Yep. [01:49:59] Speaker B: Awesome. [01:50:00] Speaker A: What a great podcast. Oh, that's so inspirational. [01:50:03] Speaker B: It is. [01:50:04] Speaker A: Let's. Let's go through some comments. [01:50:06] Speaker B: Ton of comments here. Let me. Let me go. I gotta go way, way, way, way, way back. Where'd we get up to? Let's just dig back into the, like, 20 minutes ago comments, which was Joel Bramley saying, if he gets a shot out while exploring, it's just a bonus. The exploration and potential to capture something is amazing. And that's a unique reward. It's exactly it. Use it as a reason to get out and enjoy. Enjoy the world. And if you get something, it's a bonus. Absolutely. Digifrog says hi. All these early starts kept me every time. Yes, we did start early today so that Mika could open up the gallery on time. But most of the time we'll aim for nine. But every now and then, you know, we've got to change it to make sure our Guests can. Can fit in. [01:50:54] Speaker A: And don't forget to like and subscribe. And if you hit the bell, you'll get a notification because we're also now doing Monday evening here in Australia time Monday evening podcast called the. What are we calling it? The random photography show. [01:51:07] Speaker B: The random photography show we did. So we gave away a strap on the show. And David, who. I'll bring up his comment in a second. Not David Skinner, David Mascaro, I think he said it was very late in the US he wasn't awake. But he wants to know if we'll do a giveaway in his time zone. We will. Maybe not next week, but we'll. We'll figure something out and we'll get it done. We'll get you a chance to win a strap. You deserve it. [01:51:30] Speaker A: Anyone can, anywhere. We'll ship everywhere. Are you shipping to Canada again? Is that still. [01:51:34] Speaker B: Yeah, Canada's back. Their postal strike is over. Canada's back. If you're in Canada, you're all good. Speaking of which, David from San Francisco says his D850 is smiling right now. I think that's when we're chatting about what an amazing camera it is because it is a beautiful camera. [01:51:50] Speaker A: Now, was David Skinner. David Skinner. Was David the person that smashed their. Their camera with a sledgehammer? Is that how they got into Nikon? [01:51:58] Speaker B: Oh, what was it the guy? Yes, David Skinner. I joined the Nick on Dark side via Beef Up. He must have been the one that smashed his Sony with a sledgehammer to win. And they were supposed to stop it at the last second and. And there was a miscommunication and he hit it. Or was there or was there. It was pretty cool. [01:52:19] Speaker A: For those of you that don't know, check out this past episode from. Oh, a Beef up episode where we talked about it. Uh, so that's probably kind of, you know, like the second, third week in October, if you go back and have a look at talking about that, because Justin photographed it. Got some absolutely gorgeous shots of that. [01:52:37] Speaker B: Experience of the camera getting smashed. [01:52:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:52:40] Speaker A: But also just the reaction from people and the. [01:52:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it was very cool. Jason says the weight and portability of Micro Four Thirds has kept him with that system. Are you looking into the OM3? What are your thoughts on the OM3? Tell us. [01:52:56] Speaker A: I want one. [01:52:57] Speaker B: You want one, Greg? [01:52:58] Speaker A: Yeah, I do now. [01:52:59] Speaker B: Well, we just got to try. We've got to get you one as a. As a review camera. That's what we got to figure out. [01:53:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm working on it. [01:53:06] Speaker B: So you can. You're the, you're. You're uniquely positioned to assess that camera and its ergonomics compared to Fujifilm. I think. [01:53:14] Speaker A: Dude. Well, if. When you speak to OM head office, could you let them know that I. I will. [01:53:20] Speaker B: I'll send them your resume. [01:53:22] Speaker A: Thank you. [01:53:24] Speaker B: Matt Palmer, here he is again. He says. So we're getting into AI again now. I think the reason that, that we don't like AI as photographers is if AI plays itself off as another medium, then it's a form of deception and we don't like being deceived. Deception in the form. Form of giving you more is okay. Oh, interesting. Deception in the form of giving you more is okay. I don't know if I understand that part. We'll have to get him on to discuss. I actually think, you know, it'd be cool to get both of them on one of our Monday evening shows if, if they've got the time. I reckon that'd be super fun. Joel Bramley says if it's not possible to visit the location or know it's a real, real place that I'm out. Yeah. That you can see social media just filling up with these like, be like epic Cliff Valley sunset, Milky Way, Aurora, unicorn flying through, you know, AI photos. That's just. And yeah, unless you can prove that, that that's something on earth. I mean it is, it's amazing for digital art's sake. But when it's being passed off as landscape photography. [01:54:38] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. [01:54:39] Speaker B: That feels. [01:54:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. I think it's. Facebook is already moving to stamp any AI generated photos on the site as AI generated photos, which I think all social media platforms should do because it is deception, as Matt said. [01:54:54] Speaker B: But they went through that little pickle that if you were like using Lightroom's AI tools, you were getting labeled as AI. You know, like if you remove a, a fly from your photo using their little heel tool that now the Denoise. Exactly. And it was getting. But I think they've fixed that because that, because that was basically flagging all these photographers real images as like, oh, this is just AI generated. And all they've done is used a tool that has A.I. like, I don't even know how she's there. [01:55:25] Speaker A: Yeah, well, Lightrooms had AI functions for, for years and years. It's not new. [01:55:30] Speaker B: No, it's not new. [01:55:32] Speaker A: It's not new. But it's just because AI is such a hot term and a hot topic and you know, we see lots of news about it and lots of brands saying they're Embracing it, all that sort of thing. [01:55:43] Speaker B: So I, I believe Google has now just implemented their own AI tagging stuff. But it's like maybe it was the image, it's embedded and you can't see it, but it can be scanned or something like that. It's, it's, it's, it's clever. It's all evolving fast. But I think we're going to evolve very fast to a point where, you know, if something, and we've talked about this before with like Leica and Fuji and the few other camera brands that are doing the content authorization, you know, built into the file. Yeah, I think that's going to get, that's going to get more robust fairly quick to the point. I mean, you know, this is a photo. [01:56:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, you know, Lightroom will stamp. If you've used AI Denoise, it will put that in the file name. You can change it, but the initial file name will always have that stamp in there. So it's interesting. [01:56:39] Speaker B: Jason says if you're selling me a photo of a waterfall, I want to know that you hiked, traveled, got yourself there in the prevailing conditions of light and took it yourself. Yeah, yeah, I agree. [01:56:50] Speaker A: Because often when we look at a photo like that and it was the same. I remember young, when I was younger, because I've always been into art, I'd go to the National Gallery here in Victoria and stare at these amazing, you know, 200 year old landscape paintings. And they were so beautiful that you could always almost imagine yourself being there in the place of the painter. And I think there's an element of that that's the same for photography, that how did they get that shot shot. And if it's a real shot, that adds to the efficacy and the drama of the image. That if you can imagine that, wow, that that photographer actually got to the top of that cliff to take that shot versus someone just sitting in their parents basement putting in text prompts. We talked about a different experience. [01:57:36] Speaker B: We talked about this with Richard Taddy with his nightscape images and where this line is between photography and digital art because he'll use a star tracker to capture the sky and then separate foreground photos and blend them together. But he did that in the same half an hour at night in the same location, but did it in a way so that he could render the landscape as what he feels is his view of this situation. But that's very different to him taking a night sky that he took three years ago and then overlaying it over a foreground that he made with AI or whatever behind and saying that this is, you know, because. Yeah, he's. He's sort of got his own, I guess, code of ethics of. Of what is photography in his mind. And it can be many, many images blended together, but it's not going to be. I guess they're not too different. They're not from different spots. You know, one was From a location 300 km away from this location or a different night that happened to have an aurora, and then he moved himself to a spot that had a cool waterfall in the foreground or whatever. You know, like, it's. Yeah, it's. It's an interesting. [01:58:55] Speaker A: It is. And it would be interesting to compare what people are experiencing now in our professions with the move to AI manipulated art or imagery versus how people behaved when it moved from film to digital. You know, I'm sure that there were countless naysayers and saying this would be the end of photography. [01:59:17] Speaker B: Yeah. How do we even know this is real? You know, you can just put it in Photoshop and, And. [01:59:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:59:22] Speaker B: And cut things out of it and add things into it. [01:59:24] Speaker A: You know, that's photos at a computer. Like, you know, it's all that. It's, you know, it. It's a generational kind of change in a way. [01:59:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:59:35] Speaker A: You know, it's like going from gas to gas lighting to electricity. Like, it's, It's. Oh, I don't know. [01:59:41] Speaker B: But it'll work itself out. It always does. Again, Matt says, I don't believe AI replicates people's artwork, but training, the training data is a problem. The best way. Way I've heard it described is copyright laundering. And, yeah, that is, that is a concern. You know, it's like all these brilliant photographers, you know, their life's work has been kind of scanned and is now just in this AI engine to replicate something. An amalgamation, you know, of all this hard work and copyrighted imagery. It's. [02:00:15] Speaker A: Well, if you've been putting your photos on social media for all these years and they're now using that imagery to train AI. [02:00:22] Speaker B: Yep. You know, but that's one thing, because technically, you know, everyone knows. Well, the. Yeah, everyone knows those terms and conditions are pretty shit. And they. They can do what they want with it. But you know what's worse, I think is kind of the stock photography sites that kind of hook you in as a potential, you know, like, hey, you can earn money. You know, people are licensed your images, and then all of a sudden you find out that they license their entire catalog to an AI company without telling you that that was what the plan was. You know, that's. And I don't know, it's weird. [02:01:00] Speaker A: David Skinner is the beef of David. [02:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah. What's he said here? The, the Philip Johnson. The look on the face of Matt Nick was process. It was process. It was the whole, the whole room had that. Did he really. [02:01:16] Speaker A: He did. And then it was. Did they mean for that to happen? Like. [02:01:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [02:01:24] Speaker A: That was a fun experience. [02:01:26] Speaker B: Joel says he would love an OM3. Until then, the EM1 Mark III is an amazing camera. I've never shot. I haven't shot a lot with micro 4/3. I'd really like to give it a go. [02:01:39] Speaker A: You're a bit of a full frame snob. [02:01:41] Speaker B: Jason says I emailed you about the OM3. Justin strongly considering a pre order. All right, I'll. I'll. I'll email you back and we'll. We'll discuss. I see you. You might have seen our custom straps, our Olympus straps. No OM Systems. [02:01:55] Speaker A: OM System. [02:01:55] Speaker B: Doing that. OM System. I don't know why I'm in the Olympus mindset. [02:01:59] Speaker A: Did we cover Matt's second half of that? Comments about giving? [02:02:02] Speaker B: No, no, I. So he, when he was talking about giving with AI, I ran out of characters. Giving you more AI Giving you more would be like giving someone extra goodies with their order or underplaying the rarity of a photograph to explain it later. The kind of. That kind of more fun reveal. Okay. [02:02:18] Speaker A: Yep. [02:02:22] Speaker B: Talk to Aaron at OM Systems. He'll sort you out, I reckon. I wonder if he's talking about you getting a review. Camera. Camera. [02:02:30] Speaker A: That'd be nice. [02:02:32] Speaker B: You know what else is nice? We're at 800. 899 subscribers. That's pretty amazing. If, if anyone's listening now and you haven't subscribed. Even if you don't want to be subscribed, just please, just tick us over the 900 just for fun. Come on. I'm refreshing it. Come on. One of you, please. Anything else, Greg, for today? [02:02:51] Speaker A: A little bit of news. Not a lot going on at the moment. It's been a quite quiet week. [02:02:55] Speaker B: What do you got? [02:02:56] Speaker A: Well, it's now possible to buy a Leica for $330. But I need to explain myself, so I'm gonna bring up my screen. [02:03:06] Speaker B: I think I saw this and I actually think I wanted to get it to do like a YouTube video on it and see what it's like. Let's see. [02:03:12] Speaker A: I'm kind of tempted. [02:03:13] Speaker B: Let's see. [02:03:14] Speaker A: Are we on the same page. The Leica Lux grip. [02:03:16] Speaker B: We are on the same page. You know what? I actually think it would make me more, like, enjoy shooting with my phone more. I actually, I looked at it and I was like, I. I'm kind of down for this. [02:03:27] Speaker A: I don't like the insecurity of holding my. This is a. It's an iPhone 14. It's just a small size. But I don't like the insecurity of holding it because it's. I don't use a case. [02:03:41] Speaker B: Oh, really? [02:03:43] Speaker A: I know. Lucky straps. Don't Mac them. I raw dog my phone. [02:03:49] Speaker B: I did for. I did for a little while. I know that's the word of the. The year at the moment, but. Yeah, it does sound wrong, but I like it. It's funny. It is. I. I did it for a while because someone said, like, you know, phones are not designed, you know, like, you're supposed to enjoy the fact that it's small. This is how they design it. And I completely agree. And they got a lot stronger. So I think with my, like, 15 or 14 or something like that, I rolled caseless and with. Within the first two days, I dropped it and smashed the back of it. And I was like, all right, I am too. [02:04:17] Speaker A: I never dropped my phone. [02:04:18] Speaker B: I'm too clumsy to use it. Okay. [02:04:19] Speaker A: Never drop it all the time. This uses the. The maglock. [02:04:25] Speaker B: Yes. [02:04:26] Speaker A: Which is already on the phone. And you can actually rotate it. So you can see. Here, let me just bring up the images. You can actually rotate it. What's that? How many degrees is that? 90 degrees. Yeah. And so basically what it adds, it adds a mechanical shutter button, two customizable function buttons, and a command dial on the front. [02:04:47] Speaker B: I'm ordering. [02:04:49] Speaker A: I think it gives you about, like, two hours of consistent battery life use. But it's. What's nice about it, I think, is that it just adds that grip. Like, even if you took away the buttons and the. I think it uses Bluetooth or WI FI connectivity to control. Even if. And it. Look, it doubles as a stand. That's pretty cool. But even if you took away the functionality, it's just a nice organic shape. It's. And it just adds that purchase, that ability to grip and maybe control some of those when you're taking photos and you're holding your camera landscape controls, kind of. You can access the controls with your thumb. But it is a 300 and. What did I say? 330 US dollar. What's that, about 6,000 Australian dollars? [02:05:39] Speaker B: It's about, what, 500 oh, probably let me. [02:05:43] Speaker A: I'm just like. [02:05:44] Speaker B: I was going to order it. [02:05:45] Speaker A: Like, it being like you can also order. You need to order this too. Justin. Groovy leather case. I know. [02:05:51] Speaker B: You just make one. I'll make my own. Yeah, I'll make my own. And I'll make it fit the phone as well because they've made that case purely only fit the grip. [02:05:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:05:59] Speaker B: I want it to fit my phone and I'll loop it on my belt like an old man. It'd be awesome. [02:06:04] Speaker A: But it is a. I don't know, it's just a funky little device. Like, you know, and. And Mika said even if you're taking photos with your phone, you're seeing the world in a different way. And I really like that. That really resonates me because. And it comes back to what we say. Just. Well, you don't say it so much because you're a Canon freak, but you say, you know, we say it doesn't matter what camera you've got, just, just get out and we look at the light and hold a camera up and look through a viewfinder on the screen and see the world differently. Compose and frame and. And all of that sort of stuff. And this kind of elevates that for people that don't want to invest in a camera system. Maybe a bit scared of the idea of a camera system, but this kind of enhances your experience, your user experience, I guess. And I know it's an expensive gadget. [02:06:46] Speaker B: I was going to say, you know what's super interesting is that the like is this. I don't know if I'm using this word word correctly. I'm going to use it to try and sound smart. The dichotomy of, of saying just get out and shoot with your phone, but also buy the 500 Leica grip for it. You know, like it's like, it's. But. But I. If I think it would actually make shooting with your phone for me feel more like photography because at the moment it doesn't. It feels like using my phone. Know what I mean? Yeah. [02:07:17] Speaker A: A lot of people use smart like will use their smartphone only but have expansive photography catalogs of work. [02:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:07:26] Speaker A: Because they just choose to use a phone because I think that the phone technology is good enough for them and the job that they do. And that's fine. That's great. We love it. [02:07:34] Speaker B: They are beautiful photos from a phone, especially for social sharing and stuff like that. You know, if you don't own Alpine Light Gallery, a phone can create beautiful images. I'm going to add this to the stage. Greg, I'm just going to pull yours down a little bit. Hang on. [02:07:51] Speaker A: I just want to have a quick look at some of these. You can be this cool, Justin. Oh, no, you got it there. No, that's all right. [02:07:56] Speaker B: No, no, no, it's a different one. It was a different one. I'm going to show you. Oh, yeah, the vertical. Oh, it's for selfies too. [02:08:05] Speaker A: Oh, and look when you place it down on your hand gloves. [02:08:09] Speaker B: Possum. Possum. [02:08:12] Speaker A: Fur. [02:08:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:08:14] Speaker A: Anyway, so there it is. [02:08:15] Speaker B: Hang on. So I'm just going to swap this over. Have a look at this. Fjorden, this isn't the same product. [02:08:20] Speaker A: No, but it is Leica, isn't it? [02:08:22] Speaker B: It is a Leica company. So I'm guessing this product they bought. They bought this company. I'm guessing this is my prediction. They bought this company. See, the grip here was more of a small lump on the camera with the. The buttons and stuff. And then they've evolved it to a more Leica style and put it out as a Leica product. Whereas this product is Fjorden and. And. Yeah, hang on. [02:08:48] Speaker A: It's a case, isn't it? [02:08:50] Speaker B: And. No, it's mag. [02:08:51] Speaker A: Or is it their actual phone? [02:08:53] Speaker B: This is a. No, no, this is an iPhone and this is a mag grip camera. [02:08:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:09:00] Speaker B: Thing with some controls and a shutter button. [02:09:02] Speaker A: It's not pretty, is it? [02:09:04] Speaker B: It's the same. No, but it would fit in your pocket a lot better. Yeah, but it's. It's a small grip. More like, you know, like a Ricoh grip. You know, like that. It's sort of. That's the style they've gone for here. Like a compact camera grip. Whereas Leica have obviously added their actual. So, yeah, you can see it here. [02:09:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:09:26] Speaker B: Oh, I think you might be right. Maybe it is a case. [02:09:29] Speaker A: I think it's a case. [02:09:30] Speaker B: No, no. MagSafe case. Adhesive adapter. I don't know. But anyway, that's an interesting. That just come up when I've done your research. [02:09:38] Speaker A: Have you? [02:09:39] Speaker B: Well, I was searching for the Leica one so I can buy it even though it's on backorder if I go. [02:09:44] Speaker A: Well, it's only pre order at the moment. [02:09:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Pre order. [02:09:49] Speaker A: If you go to B and H, it's pre order. [02:09:51] Speaker B: Yeah. This is Leica Australia's store and it says back order, so they probably had a million things for it. It's got tripod sockets, got a USB C charger on the bottom, got the front dial. I'M I'm tempted to be an idiot and buy it and do a review on it or something. We'll see. Matt, this is. Yeah, this is the exact point. Matt. I've always thought it was amusing that manufacturers market how thin their phone is and imagine how many millions of dollars they. They put into R and D to make it 0.3 of a mil thinner than the previous model or something, only to need to put a thick case around it so you don't smash it. The smithereens. [02:10:28] Speaker A: That reminds me, one of the iPhone releases a few years ago, they didn't. They talked about how thin it was, but they didn't take into account the bump for the camera housing, the lens housing. I said the cameras and all the. And they got a bit of flack for misleading people because when you add, you know, it's only like 2 miles mils, maybe 2 and a half depending on which camera you've got. It doesn't make a huge difference. But that was so going for the thinnest camera on the market. [02:10:54] Speaker B: Yep. [02:10:55] Speaker A: But, yeah, but I, I agree. I think this is kind of tempting. It's reasonable. I mean, the other option is to get a, like a Instax camera. But. [02:11:08] Speaker B: I'm gonna try and. I'm gonna try and get one and we can both test it out. I'm gonna do it. That'll be good. What else? I think that's about it. [02:11:17] Speaker A: You're gonna get the case too. [02:11:18] Speaker B: Jason wants an OM3 half case. I don't know if I can pull off an om3 half case. I need to get my hands on that camera first before we can even. It probably would be simple because it doesn't have a grip. [02:11:28] Speaker A: Doesn't have a grip. [02:11:29] Speaker B: It would be simpler to do a half case, but yeah. [02:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:11:32] Speaker B: It's not really a thing. Half cases. We're more. We're strap people. What else? Anything else? Before we know, the only other thing. [02:11:41] Speaker A: That popped up overnight with the news, I think it was from yesterday, a different brand camera strap maker and bag maker, Peak Design. They've released a brand new. They call it a micro clutch and it comes with a base plate. They've got two plates. One's an I plate which is just a rectangular plate and it has a very. [02:12:03] Speaker B: That's been out for a while now. [02:12:05] Speaker A: The clutch has been out for dslr. The bigger cameras. The micro clutch is now for the smaller OM 3x100, isn't it? [02:12:13] Speaker B: Oh, they've updated it two finger. They must have updated. It's been out For a while. It's like it's got a flight. Yeah, yeah. Maybe they just did a refresh or something. Yeah, yeah. It's an interesting little product. I think Leica actually make like a five times more expensive version of that for their cameras or something. And I think that's how it evolved to peak design going. No one's doing this for all cameras, you know, like a more generic one. Yeah, I've never, never used one. It just. Yeah, sort of just loops. Loops on two or three fingers. [02:12:43] Speaker A: Yeah, just those. If you've got small hands, you might fit your little finger in. It might be. I don't know, I personally might find it a bit restrictive. I don't know how I feel about it. [02:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, agree. [02:12:54] Speaker A: Anyway, that was just the other news, the other, you know, new product that we haven't already covered. But, yeah, really want to get our hands on an OM3. I think it's a really interesting product and I think there's a lot to love about it and let's hope that it makes other brands see the value in not just making these kind of organic blobs. Classic Canon just add some classic styling to it. You know, they've got this. They've all got a catalog of heritage designs. Nikon, Canon, Fuji, OM Systems, Panasonic. They've all got this catalog. They can. They could like what Nikon did with the zf. [02:13:35] Speaker B: The zf, which has been very popular series of cameras. So, yeah, I mean, I would like to see Canon do it. I also don't blame them for not doing it, sort of like, because it's almost like, hey, we're not going to jump on that bandwagon. We're just going to focus on what we do. And I appreciate that as well. [02:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that too. [02:13:52] Speaker B: It wouldn't surprise me if I saw him bring something out, but I. I've never heard any rumblings of it, you know, in any room, anything like that. It's like they're just not. No interest at all in that retro kind of thing. But. [02:14:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, you're good. All right. [02:14:07] Speaker C: Fairly good. [02:14:09] Speaker A: So should we call that a wrap? [02:14:11] Speaker B: I think we should call it a wrap. If you're still listening, don't forget. So Monday evenings, Australian time, which is super late US time. If you. If you're like a night owl in the us, get on, get in the live chat and talk with us. I believe. I don't know if it's confirmed or not yet still, but I believe this Monday we'll have the down south photo show Guys on is that maybe happening or not sure yet? [02:14:34] Speaker A: Pretty sure. That's confirmed. That is locked in. [02:14:36] Speaker B: It's locked in. So that'll be awesome. [02:14:38] Speaker A: We'll. [02:14:39] Speaker B: We'll just talk crap with them for an hour and, and dig into some photo news and reviews and all that sort of stuff. Workshops. [02:14:48] Speaker A: Yeah, and if you're a fan of down south, you want to pay attention to that particular episode because we're working on a bit of a collaboration. [02:14:54] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's true. [02:14:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So stay tuned for that. That's a collaboration with Lucky Straps down south and the Camera Life podcast. So, yeah, stay tuned for that. [02:15:07] Speaker B: Bruce says, oh, no, don't give cam another platform. It's exactly what we want. It's exactly what we want. We'll get camera. We'll see if we get Jim on as well or Cran or someone and it should be good fun. And David says, maybe I'll have a 10pm coffee and stay up for a strap, maybe. All right. Tell you this, David, if you, if you end up in the comments on our next Monday evening show, we'll give away another strap. But not if, unless you're there, we won't. [02:15:36] Speaker A: So if it doesn't happen, everyone can blame David. [02:15:39] Speaker B: But also, I can't promise you'll get the strap. I can't, I can't rig it. It's got to still be, you know, a semi random giveaway of some sort. [02:15:46] Speaker A: We have a very professional toolkit to decide who the winner is. [02:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [02:15:50] Speaker A: We're not sure that it works properly. [02:15:51] Speaker B: But I don't think I'm going to use the spinny wheel again. I think if we do it, we'll get, I'll get the down south photo boys to pick a random comment or something. I just won't tell them what's going on. [02:16:00] Speaker A: Very good. [02:16:02] Speaker B: Phillip says stock the. Stock the fridge for the down south team. And David says, David's in. David's in. All right, well, we'll see you there. Nothing better. Hopefully by then we will have hit 9, 900 subscribers. I'm going to check it right now, just in, just in case. That could be cool. No, still 8.99. We'll have to wait till Monday. And yeah, from that. Do we call it? [02:16:25] Speaker A: I think. I think we're going to call it. So just a reminder, you've been listening and watching to the Camera Life podcast, episode 51. Check out the whole back catalog of the previous 50 podcasts on YouTube or audio podcast channels. They're there too. And also keep an eye out on the channel for editor. Seb has been pulling together some shorts with some key moments from past episodes. So stay. If you're subscribed, you're going to see those in your feed eventually. But look, on that note, we will see you, hopefully all of you, Monday evening Australian time or next Thursday morning. Once again. But look, be safe. Grab your camera. It doesn't matter what it is, even if it is a smartphone. Get out and shoot. [02:17:10] Speaker B: Get. Get cracking into that. 10,000 hours. [02:17:13] Speaker A: Yeah, you got to start somewhere. [02:17:15] Speaker B: That's right. [02:17:16] Speaker A: How many hours you reckon you're at? You'd be at 10,000 for sure. [02:17:19] Speaker B: I don't know. It depends if you count, like, editing and all that stuff. Not sure. [02:17:23] Speaker A: She. She kind of did. [02:17:24] Speaker B: She said, you know, I'd say because I'm. Well, truly past 10 years in. I. Look, I'd say so, but I didn't keep count, so. [02:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I didn't either. I don't know that I'm there yet because I haven't worked professionally much. [02:17:39] Speaker B: My awards list is certainly not quite as long as Mika's. I think it totals. Mine's up at. No, it's zero. Yes. Zero awards. [02:17:49] Speaker A: No, no. You and Jim got an award the other day a couple of weeks ago last year in your matching pajamas. [02:17:55] Speaker B: Okay. I've got half an award, which was a gag gift, but. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. All right. Catch you on the next everyone. And see you next week. We'll see you next week. [02:18:11] Speaker A: Bye. I really want one of those OM3s now.