EP40 Australian Freelance Photographer Nicholas Walton-Healey

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Gonna show us your moves, Nick. Good morning. Good morning, good morning, good morning. This is the Camera Life podcast, proudly brought to you by Lucky Straps from Bendigo, Victoria. This is episode 40. Can you believe episode 40? There's about four weeks until Christmas and it's the 28th of November. And welcome to the show. If you're watching along from home or work or whilst you're out on a run or doing a shift, make sure you hit the like button. Please subscribe. And make sure you put the notification bell on so that you get notified because we will, from time to time, drop impromptu videos. Justin's very fond of impromptu video work. Speaking of which, good morning, Justin. [00:00:57] Speaker B: Good morning, Greg. [00:00:59] Speaker A: Now, we apologize for everyone watching and listening along, whether it be now, live with us or later on. We're having a few challenges with audio. [00:01:09] Speaker B: Quality, but I'm trying to work on it, so hopefully we can get to improve. As we get this underway, I might be able to see what we can do here. [00:01:19] Speaker A: Good morning, David. Or good evening. I think it might be for David in San Fran, in the San Fran Bay area. Good evening. You're enjoying a beer. That feels very wrong at this hour for us. No, you know, each their own. We're joined today by a Melbourne based freelance photographer, Nicholas Walton Healy. Nicholas, welcome to the show. Just before we dive. Good morning, mate. Just before we dive into why you're here and what you're all about and your creative pursuits, we'd like you to offer a welcome. Sorry. An acknowledgement of country, the first nations people of Australia and the surrounds. For those of you that aren't familiar with acknowledgments of country, maybe you can just give us a very brief explanation of what that is, Nicholas. [00:02:15] Speaker C: Yeah, sure. So for everyone listening out there today, the three of us are speaking and broadcasting from different parts of Victoria on different lands who have different traditional owners. In each case, those lands form part of the Kulin nation. So the point of an acknowledgement is just to acknowledge the elders, past and present, and to pay respect to them and acknowledging them as the traditional custodians of these land and waterways. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Cool. Thank you very much. [00:02:59] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Much appreciated. So just before we jump into Nick's story, I just lost my train of thought. I'm so very sorry. Before we jump into Nick's story, just a quick recap on what we've got coming up. Today's show. So we're going to be chatting with Nick about his work, both as a freelance photographer and on the many projects that he's worked with local communities here in Victoria and in the Top end Australia, in Northern Territory, in the Tiwi Islands. We're also going to have a quick cheeky look at the Lucky Straps Black Friday sale. So hang around for that if you want to kill a discount. I'm sure that you're all I know I am. I've got Black Friday fatigue bff. I don't know how it's possible for these companies to offer such ridiculous discounts at this time of the year and then again in about a week and a week after that and yet still remain profitable. I think there might be some markup going on, but I don't see that in the Lucky Strap site. The prices you see and the discounts you get are the genuine discounts. But we'll cover that off in a little bit later. Not a huge amount of news this week to cover off, but we will talk about some of our recent Black Friday wish lists and purchases. And for those watching along at home, we'd love for you to add in the comments what what's on the top of your wish list for this Black Friday. But let's jump into Nicholas's story. So Nick, you're a Melbourne based, you're a local boy and you a freelancer, but you have quite a broad portfolio of work styles and genres that I think clearly define your overall skills as a visual creative. Quite clearly you've worked in a number of projects, self driven projects and projects in conjunction with other groups. You work on commission basis, but you're also a published author. And we talked when we talked on the phone about this podcast earlier in the week, we talked about the congruence in our stories and that you started as a writer and your photography evolved to I guess kind of marry into that creative style of yours. For me, on the other hand, I started as a photographer and then became a writer. Now no, this show is not all about me, but can you tell us a little bit about what that transition from being a published author into photography. Can you talk to us about that journey? [00:05:47] Speaker C: Yeah, well, so I guess I left high school maybe totally knowing what I what it was that I wanted to do. And one of those sort of things that you sort of get told by career counsellors and the like is that if you don't know what to do well, you should do an arts degree. But I particularly enrolled in a arts degree at Melbourne Uni because I was interested in doing a double major in criminology and psychology. And Melbourne, the only place that offered that double major I persisted with criminology for a significant portion of my degree. I was really interested in that, but the psychology aspects of it, I sort of found that it was too scientifically driven. As I sort of progressed through my degree, I realized my strengths were more in creative, in the creative sort of arts area. And I discovered that primarily through creative writing. And as I experimented with different forms of writing, I became increasingly attracted to poetry, I think because I admired the way that poets could use language so concisely and also so emotively. You know, with such few words, they can evoke such strong feelings and create such strong visual imagery. And I guess that is that kind of pretty cliched saying that a good picture is worth a thousand words. So as I was going through my photography, my creative writing subjects, I increasingly started incorporating visual aspects into work and that increasingly led towards photography. And I was very lucky. During my honors year, I was pursuing a subject, I think it was called extreme poetry or something like that, where the lecturer. [00:08:03] Speaker A: Extreme poetry. [00:08:04] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lecturer was really trying to get us to think outside the box of war, accepted as being literary and poetic. And I actually pitched an idea of doing a suite of photographs that would be accompanied by some poems. And he helped me connect with a lecturer in the fine arts department who showed me some basic dark room. And funnily enough, by the time I finished my degree, it was very clear in my mind that I wanted to be a photographer. [00:08:38] Speaker B: Wow, that's cool. [00:08:40] Speaker A: Wow. So extreme poetry led the way to your visual journey in photography. So what, what, I'm curious, what, what does extreme poetry entail? Is that like some slam, Slam poetry, some dark, moody jazz bar poetry? What are we talking here? [00:09:01] Speaker C: I guess. Yeah, you're right, Greg. It verges on, I suppose, more experimental forms. So forms that are, I suppose, you know, modern or avant garde in that tradition, that sort of break with convention and challenge you to think I was looking at a lot of concrete poetry, which has a very strong visual aspect and needs to work visually as well as it does orally. So, yeah, so. But yeah, for photography, I took a year off after completing my honours degree and then enrolled in a photography degree. So that was my second. My second ba and funnily enough, when I enrolled, I didn't remember filling out the application overseas at the time. And RMIT University actually had two different streams, that finance stream and they had a commercial stream. And I thought I was enrolling in fine arts stream, but when I rocked up for the interview, I realised it was that I enrolled in the Commercial stream. And that turned out to be the best mistake that I ever sort of made because I think having already done a degree I was quite artistically sort of inconceptually advanced and then. But what I really lacked was the you know, the technical skills and know how that I was fortunate enough to receive through the commercial photography. [00:10:37] Speaker A: So it was a happy end. [00:10:39] Speaker C: It was a. Was one of the. Exactly like the best. The best. We spoke about that before that the best photographs tend to be happy accidents and yeah that, that really set the tone for what came after. [00:10:51] Speaker B: Yeah man, that's, that's, that's so cool. It's. Yeah like it's one of those perfect things where you, you know, you want to do something but the other thing was actually what you needed. Not, not necessarily what you wanted. You know, sort of working I guess not a, not a weakness but yeah, working on something that you were less strong at. Yeah, it's. [00:11:14] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a really interesting point too Justin. Cause one of the things that I loved about poetry was the fact that like it was so. It's so sort of authentic in the way that you know that it's, it's essentially in Australia at least a non compile pursuit and it's sort of very anti. Anti capitalist and very, you know, very much about the art. And so yeah, for me to end up in a commercial for photography course it was. But as I said it was the thing that I needed. It was exactly where I needed to be. And yeah, things sometimes of course happen for reasons that we don't anticipate. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Did you rebel against it at all at the very start when the first lecturer was teaching you about you know, making money and that kind of stuff with, with your art where you're like no, that's you know, or into it straight away. [00:12:25] Speaker C: Well, I was, I was over. I was overwhelmed and intimidated to be honest because everything I'd shot up until that point was on 35 mil. So I was using analog processes. And then the first thing they, they said was, you know that for this course you need a digital camera. But one of the things that I remember my lecturer who delivered that, the program head at the time who gave that first lecture. One of the things that he said to all of us that has stuck with me the 15 years or so since was that he went through all the gear and all the things that we'd need and then he finished the lecture by saying that you guys need to remember this and that is that it is not the photography gear that makes the photographer and I just thought, wow, you know, there might be, you know, there might be space here for someone like me to make a contribution. [00:13:28] Speaker B: So cool. [00:13:29] Speaker A: I think that's a very good point. It's not something that Justin subscribes to, but we have talked about this often on the show that it's not the gear, it's about being present and it's about observing what's going on in front of you, whether it be life or still life and finding unique and interesting ways to document that. [00:13:49] Speaker B: It's, it's funny, it's the, it's, it's the dichotomy of this show that it's like the, the title of the show come from wanting to get people out using their cameras more rather than just buying gear. But we all love gear and we talk about it and there's, there's like a push and pull with it. I find where it's like we, you know, you gotta, you gotta get it out, you gotta talk about the gear, the new camera but then you've got to step back and say you don't need a new camera and maybe you're better off going on a trip to Vietnam instead of buying a new lens or whatever. So there's, I think that's quite revealing. [00:14:29] Speaker A: Justin, was that the inner dialogue that you experienced before you went to Vietnam recently? [00:14:33] Speaker B: All the time. Every day I wrestle with myself just on the audio. Just quickly Elaine has just popped a comment in and it's, it's what I seem to be hearing in my things that basically when me or Greg are talking it's getting sort of a weird feedback. So what I'll do is just, just mute Nicholas's mic when one of us is talking. So there might be, we might sort of slow the pace of the conversation down a little bit just to make sure that I can transition in, out when, when one of us is chatting. [00:15:02] Speaker A: Yes sir, very good. Anyway, so Nicholas, you like us trained. You trained in, in film, didn't you Justin? No, I should know that. No you didn't. [00:15:17] Speaker B: I'm all self taught and have just dabbled so I'm actually really interested to hear even any more about what a commercial photography degree entails. Like what, what that was like what you'd learned if you'd recommend it. All that kind of stuff has probably changed over time to now but yeah, super interesting. [00:15:40] Speaker C: Yeah, well it was. Unfortunately it has. The, that particular course has changed at RMIT since and I guess what I found sort of useful. What I really appreciated was that it was it's, it's pragmatic, right? Like it's preparing the industry and, and I guess that, yeah, for someone that's sort of like a little bit got a poetic sort of sensibility and disposition which can sort of lend towards the abstract, I found the application of skill to a particular task and purpose, you know, be really inspiring for me. And I think another aspect that became really important throughout that process, being able to communicate ideas to a diverse range of people. It's not always like academics and artists, it's like people of industry, it's like the public, it's potential clients, it's groups that you might work with and the style with which you communicate between those groups is going to change. So I feel was a really useful process as well. [00:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah, very cool. Speaking of gear, I've got a question for you. So you started your second BA at RMIT and you got your list of necessary equipment and they said you need a digital camera. What was the camera you opted to pick up? [00:17:20] Speaker C: I really love shooting. I think I started with Nikon. I actually had a crop sensor to start with. I think it was a D7000. We had one of the ones, the D800. So I was using that whenever I could get hands on it. One of the great things about being enrolled in a course like that was that they had an incredible amount of gear that we were able to loan from the store. So I don't mean, I said before that it's not, it's not the gear that makes the photographer. The flip side of that was that at every opportunity, every weekend, I was trying to take out different cameras and different lenses and to shoot with those because, yeah, I was, felt like I was seeing a new every time. And it was such a amazing and rewarding process seeing what, you know, how far you could push the different gear. [00:18:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you're right. You know, we, as we said, the gear doesn't make you a better photographer. But exploring gear, especially in the early days, is almost essential for pretty much everybody. Unless you're just, you know, some smart ass photojournalist who picks up a 35 mil, you know, Leica and nails every shot for the rest of their life. But I think it is an access, an essential exploration process, part of the process because, you know, unless you shoot with a, you know, with a 50 mil prime and a 16 mil prime and you know, 24 to 70, whatever it may be, you don't develop a photographer's eye to see what's in frame before you even pick up the camera. And I think that's something that we all develop over time, that you can walk into a situation and you can think, all right, the light's pretty dim. I need to crank up the ISO to 800 here, and I want to go wide open. And this lens is going to be tight, so I might need to take a step back. And that's all happens in your head before you lift the camera. But you only develop those skills through playing and experimenting with different gear. And I think what you described as, which is kind of ideal, is having the opportunity to borrow, rent or loan gear rather than going out and splurging all your money on gear that you don't even know you might need. [00:19:52] Speaker B: I think that's the other cool thing about that. I was just probably what you were going to say, Greg, is that you can test things without having to lust after them and then make a decision to buy them. You get, you get to get out there and use that lens that you thought would be amazing and then go, oh, it's cool, but I probably don't need it. You know, I probably don't need to buy it because you got to have a play with it and, and use it, see what, how it might work for your, for your eye and then, and then pop it back in the loan store at the uni and go, yeah, I probably don't need to invest in one of those just yet because you can sort of get it out of your system. Whereas if you don't have access to gear, sometimes you can, you can look at it over and over on the Internet and end up buying. Um. Cause you think you need it and then turns out you didn't really need it. Sits in the bag all the time. [00:20:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I, I bought and sold the same lens a couple of times because I keep thinking I need it, then I get it and I don't, but then I forget and. Terrible, terrible. [00:20:50] Speaker B: You should write down, write down on a whiteboard. Lenses I definitely don't need. [00:20:54] Speaker A: Yeah, well, that, that was in the day. So now I'm much more refined and controlled about my purchasing decisions. [00:21:02] Speaker B: I was just, just quickly, before we, before we get too much deeper into, into the story, I'll just say hello to everyone in the chat. Hello, everyone in the chat. Jim. [00:21:12] Speaker A: Hi, everyone. [00:21:13] Speaker B: He's normally with us. David from San Francisco, she's just giving us audio feedback. The drunk wedding photographer, he's back. And Digi Frog from Tassie. [00:21:27] Speaker A: Hi, Dave. How are you, mate? [00:21:31] Speaker B: If you guys have any questions. Yes, for Nicholas throughout the show. Just throw them in the chat and we'll bring them up and ask him. Yeah, anyway, onward. [00:21:40] Speaker A: Onward and upward. So you actually took your extreme poetry learnings and your photography to a really interesting level that we want to explore in that you created a book where you documented Victorian poets. Have I got that right? [00:22:03] Speaker C: Yeah, that's. That's right, Greg. [00:22:05] Speaker A: So tell us about how that came to be and what that process was like, because I think. Sorry to cut you off there, Nick. I think a lot of people have an interest in maybe doing a project, a photography visual project, where, you know, you create a collection of images to tell an overall overarching story. And I know Justin's been exploring that recently, so I'm sure he's also keen to hear more about it. [00:22:31] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a fantastic question, Greg. When I was doing my poetry and creative writing studies, as part of that, I'd become. I became involved in a poetry journal. So I was doing some typesetting and I was also. There was a visual aspect within that poetry journal where we solicited artwork from a different poet with each issue. And I was sort of, I suppose, overseeing and facilitating some of that process. And so through that means, I'd come to interact with a lot of different members of the local orchard community. And of course, I was attending book launches and things like that. So I was sort of. In a way, even though I wasn't necessarily contributing a whole heap of my own work at that. At that point, I was. I was sort of part of that community. And having done those creative writing subjects, I had met a lot of. A lot of writers, a lot of people who had published books. Whether or not it was poetry, in some cases it was. And, yeah, the idea of photographing then kind of emerged. It was. It was quite organic because I had been approached by a few of them to do some author portraits for them. There were some people who. There were some poets whose work I admired so much that I thought it would be a really interesting creative change and experience to try and work with them on a portrait that sort of combining our collective creative skills in that kind of collaborative context. And over time, the portraits started accruing. And then I suppose one of the things that I feel I've. That has always drawn me to documentary photography is having an awareness and a sensitivity to the specifics of the community that you're working with. And one thing that I've always tried to do with photography is use it as a vehicle to assist people that I've worked with. Express a voice. So in case of the poet portraits, it became a very natural thing for me to then solicit a poem from each of the poets that I'd photographed. And the book that ended up becoming Land Before Lines essentially follows that formula, which is a portrait of a poet and then a poet from a poem from the poet who I'd photographed. [00:25:22] Speaker A: Really cool. And how long ago did you publish that book? [00:25:27] Speaker C: I didn't actually publish that book personally. It was published by a poetry publisher in 2014. So it was the year after I graduated from RMIT. [00:25:40] Speaker A: That's a very impressive outcome. I know, myself included many people who finished uni and then walked around scratching their head, bumping into things for a couple of years trying to work out what life actually really was. And here you were out in the field working with, with a community of equally creative people looking for a means to I guess tell their story a little bit through visual and words. I think that's a really impressive outcome. Only a year out of a degree. In more recent times, you've worked on a number of projects. One project that I'm really interested in is the Line. So for those of you watching and listening along at home, the Line is a photography project that Nick undertook to document the community and the impacts of Victoria's large scale. Victoria, Australia large scale infrastructure upgrade where they removed a lot of ground level train lines because. Well, there's a whole reasons why, a lot of reasons why safety for one, it removed road blocking boom gates, old school boom gates and it moved the train line into a sky rail that round rounds from. It runs through Brunswick. And my partner Sasha, when we first started dating, she lived in Brunswick and I would train out on that. That is it the upfield line? It is, yeah, the upfield line. But that had significant impact on community because there was a lot, a lot of roadworks. They're still ongoing in some parts of Victoria. A lot of roadworks. A lot of people had significant changes in the geography of where they lived. Now I don't know whether people were. Many people were forced to relocate during that process. Perhaps you can talk us through that, Nick, what inspired you to take on that project and what you found most compelling about it? [00:27:48] Speaker C: Sure. Really great timing Greg, because we're going to be. I guess it's come up a bit but life sometimes has a way of surfing back on itself. So the person who facilitated that project and asked me to participate in that project was actually the lecturer that I had for Extreme Poetry all those years ago. So I had, I Grew up in Northcote and I went to Northcote High School. I was always crossing over the creek to go to East Brunswick, but also Brunswick. So I know, I feel like I have a very deep and personal connection with that area. And the project is still ongoing. It's something that we're continuing to work on and actually seem to really increase and develop the work that we've done with it so far over the next 12 months. But, yeah, it was a fantastic. It's been fantastic for me to re. Engage with that area and the community that is in that area. And what I love about that area is creativity, the willingness to improvise, the spontaneity, I suppose, also the politics, as you can see with that photo of the silo. There's a real sort of humanitarian. Yeah, there's an aesthetic there that I feel has shaped me and is reflected in my work as an artist and yeah, to be able to reengage with that area in the community that is so integral to who I am. And also to be working with Kevin Brophy, who's an incredible poet and writer, has just been. It's been a really fantastic, a fantastic. And in terms of, you know, commissioned commission work, projects go, it's definitely, you know, I've found it a great pairing between, you know, I suppose, a job and so that job being exactly what you want to do. [00:30:23] Speaker A: Yep. No, that's really cool. And for those of you that may or may not know that that whole upfield line, it travels through a very diverse, multicultural, partially gentrified part of inner city Melbourne. And, and it's been, you know, it's, it's, it's right near the, the Pentridge Prison historic area, which is, you know, some of the oldest buildings in Victoria. So it's a really historic part of Melbourne. And in a lot of cases, train stations, as you saw in Nick's pictures, some of the older, very dilapidated, but still very nostalgic train stations were completely removed and replaced with the sky rail and with platforms way up, you know, above the traffic and the houses. So, Nick, when you undertook that project, what was the, what was the community involvement and response? You're obviously very community centric in the way that you approach your work. What was it like at the time? [00:31:34] Speaker C: Yeah, well, we connected with different individuals that had been responsible for different aspects, I suppose, along the part of the line that we were looking at. So one of the aspects would be that there's a group called the Upfield Urban Forest, which is a group that are devoted to, I Suppose making sure that there's a lot of native vegetation around that area and making, you know, greening the space. I did find out through one person that Brunswick actually, because of the density of its population, a particularly small amount of green space. It's one of the smallest, I think, in Victoria. So the upfield urban forests work to try and rectify that and enable the space to still be used as a bit of a corridor for wildlife and I suppose also just people's mental health. But, you know, I was really fascinated by that concept of guerrilla, guerrilla and taking back sort of unclaimed space or using unclaimed space or space that was sort of there in a way that was going to benefit the community and community needs. So we started. Kevin started interviewing people through that process and we recently held a presentation because the project's being run in conjunction with the Brunswick Community History Group. He delivered a presentation of some photography and some writing at their last AGM meeting. And that presentation was also used as a means of soliciting further participation for the project moving forward. [00:33:31] Speaker A: Yep, that's really interesting. I think it's, it's really inspiring to hear and see, obviously, because so many of us, and I'm on the. I'm in this bucket too, you know, we reach a stage or a maturity in our visual exploration of photography where we feel like, I want to. I want to do something a bit meatier, I want to do something with a bit more meaning, maybe, whether it be a personal project or a community based project or forming some sort of documentary of some aspect of life. And what you're doing here is you're working, you know, hand in hand with. With local community, a community that actually means something to you and matters to you, that's local and, and you've lived and breathed these spaces, you know, through much of your life. And I think there's a lot to learn from seeing works like this. For other photographers who are at that point in their journey where they think, I want to do something meaningful. From the Line project, which as you've said, is still ongoing, I want to transition to a much bigger and more extensive project that you've been working on and you currently have an exhibition on at the. It's the Magnet Gallery in Melbourne, which is at Docklands. I was there yesterday. I dropped in to have a look at your exhibition and I was thoroughly impressed. And we'll show some of the images in a moment, but thoroughly impressed with the body of work, I think, the consistency of storytelling and the candidate of the captures. You Know, there were very few of the images were felt staged. Not that they were staged, but felt, you know, like it was just a moment in life for your subjects. And I think, you know, you should be congratulated again. Many photographers love the idea of one day exhibiting their work somewhere. It's something that's always crossed my mind, you know, and I thought about do I do an exhibition in a, in a local cafe or you know, how do I, how do I do all of that? And I think there's lots of people out there that, that have that on their wish list to one day host an exhibition. And last week we're talking to Joel, Joel Elston, who's a wedding and event photographer. He uses film cameras and you know, I think we talked about that aspect of, you know, the creative journey as well. So I guess my question when I finally get to it will be multi part. But talk to us first about the Tan Tippi Project. Tell us about the connection that you built with country and the people that occupy those lands and tell us how it sort of came to be. [00:36:36] Speaker C: Sure, I suppose I would, I would begin my response to that question by sort of going back to the Line project and what you were saying about exhibitions and photographers wanting to exhibit their work. And I would say that in a way the Tan Tippi exhibition is an extension of the way that I've worked previously. So actually exhibited work in quite a number of unorthodox spaces. I've exhibited community halls, I've exhibited in an indigenous community in Darwin that was probably more of a presentation than a photography exhibition per se. But I feel like part of what I always try and do in aiming for an outcome if an exhibition is to try and find a mode of that fits with community concerns and values so that the work is able to resonate on that level and be a celebration of the connection with that community. The story of the Tan Tibi project is a very long one. It's evolved over a nine year period and I suppose it's been in the more recent years that it became kind of like the purpose of it was it emerged in consultation and collaboration with an elderly who is also the traditional owner of the country that is called Tan Tippy, that is situated on Bathurst island, which is one of the Tiwri Islands. It's the, I think it's the populated, but it's not the geographically largest of the Tiwi Islands. Melville is also widely known. And when I went out there the first time to Tan Tipi, it was in 2015, I was approached to go out there to do some photographs that were intended to document the cultural programs that the elder Teddy is, how I refer to him, his name is Edward Portimini, was beginning to host out his company and the photographs were intended to sort of not only to document but to promote that work he was doing. And over a long period of time, I suppose, not only was my connection with Teddy professional, but it became increasingly personal. And yeah, we. In recent times, one of the things was that Teddy had a real drive to get back to Melbourne. He was actually. He actually boarded in a. At Mona Bay College, which is in a regional part of Victoria, it's in Hamilton in the 70s. And his dream was part of what he was hoping through this collaboration, was able to get back to Melbourne with his wife Teresia, and to be able to take her. Take her back to Hamilton and to different parts in Melbourne to reconnect with that. That past and that history. And the exhibition really became a means for that. And Magnet Galleries Melbourne was a particularly appropriate space, I felt, to hold to exhibit that work. Being a social enterprise of photography, they are very much concerned with showcasing documentary photography that engages that sort of has a social conscience, I suppose. And so really it became, you know, it became a desirable and appropriate space to celebrate that work and the journey that has led to that relationship. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Very, very cool. Just for reference, here's me outside the Tarn Tippy exhibition at Magnet Galleries. Just a little bit of proof that I went. But Magnet Galleries has been around for quite some time in Melbourne. I remember going to an event there. Gosh, it must be like 2016 or something. It's a good space. It's in Docklands. For those of you that are in Melbourne or visiting Melbourne and you want to drop in to see Nicholas's exhibition, there's a guest book in there. You can write a message to him. The Tarn Tippy is at the Magnet Gallery, which is at Docklands, which is. What's that west of Melbourne? Cbd. It's very easy to get to from the city. Well, not by car. That's horrible. How do I stop sharing that? [00:42:03] Speaker B: I might just bring up Greg, real quickly, a map. Because for any people that are joining us from anywhere around the world, they might not know the location. The Tiwi Island. So it's the Tiwi Islands where. Where this project was was photographed. So there's. There's us in Australia and at the moment we're all down here. The. The Tiwi Islands is up here. [00:42:37] Speaker A: Yep. [00:42:38] Speaker B: Above Darwin. [00:42:40] Speaker A: So when we say it's the top end of Australia. It really is the top end of Australia. [00:42:43] Speaker B: Yeah, it really is. So it's tropical and, you know, up towards Indonesia, the Timor Sea and then I think this. Is this the island you were talking about, Bathurst Island? So this side here? [00:42:57] Speaker C: Yeah, correct. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So. So the, the township there is actually a town called Wamarayanga which is used to be known as New. [00:43:06] Speaker B: You. [00:43:06] Speaker C: When I first went over to the island, it was called New, but now it's had a name change and if you were to go. Yeah, so you can get there via. Via airplane or via a ferry from Darwin and Tan Tipi is the first beach and it's about a 25 minute ride from town and yeah, so there you go. Tan Tippie Bush Camp. You can see it on the map where Teddy Education. [00:43:38] Speaker A: So my big question, I think for you, Nick, is, and I'm sure other people are thinking, you know, Australia is a very big country and you've gone from one of the southernmost cities to one of the most northern reaches of the country. What was it that drove you to work in that specific community and country? [00:44:01] Speaker C: Yeah, so that's a. It's been, it has been absolutely incredible journey. Gregor. When I was studying photography at rmit, I received an opportunity in the final year of my studies to travel from Melbourne to Darwin in the company of Mark Gaylor, who was the program head at the time. And we went up to Darwin together to spend a week and the purpose of our visit was to photographically document a workshop that was being run in some of the local communities in Darwin. That workshop was called the IC Workshop. It was part of a joint venture between Sony and unicef. And that workshop was actually on an international scale. So it's run across countries all around the world, but the Australian leg of it was based in Darwin in those communities. And I suppose it's an interesting thing because a lot of people ask me that question. It's been something that I've been asked a lot over the course of the ex. How have you come to work with different mobs? And how has that sort of come about? And it wasn't, I suppose, something that I set out with the intention of doing. As I said, I received this opportunity to go up to Darwin as a student and there was a there. So in addition to Tony and unicef, there was a local outreach organization that was based in Darwin that had helped facilitate the workshop that was running those spaces. And one of the coordinators of the organization, at the end of the workshop, she asked me how was your experience. And I tried to be as honest, I suppose, in my responses as possible. And I said there were some parts that I just, I thought was absolutely amazing and there were some parts that I found challenging. And she actually, she said to me, well, listen, mate, if you're interested in coming back and learning a little bit more, because I think one of the things that I'd acknowledged when she'd asked me that question was that I felt like there was a lot I didn't understand and there was a lot that I didn't know. And trying to operate as a photographer in that space, you know, I probably had more questions at that point than anything. And she, you know, she said, well, if you're interested in coming back, then, you know, I can pair you up with the Indigenous Men's project officer and, you know, potentially that you could accompany him and photograph the Indigenous Men's outreach programs he was running. And that's what I did for many, many years. [00:47:09] Speaker A: Interesting. Very interesting. And so how many times have you returned to the Tiwi Islands to work with the community there, the people? [00:47:21] Speaker C: Yeah. So to be totally honest, I've only ever been to Bathurst Island. I was supposed to go to Melville island earlier this year, but that trip didn't eventually. And mostly the work that I've done there has been with that particular family group, with Teddy's family group. So the project that is Tan Tibi is very different, I suppose, from a lot of other projects in the sense that it's not a sweeping representation of Tiwi life or different groups that inhabit the Tiwi Islands. It's specific to Teddy's family group. And I've been, I think it's been close to 30 trips all over a nine year period. [00:48:18] Speaker B: Wow. [00:48:19] Speaker C: Yeah. Because there's been different components of it. And one of the things that I've actually worked with Teddy to do is to be to produce a photographic publication. And that involved a lot of consultation. So I would be on that book often in Melbourne or wherever I was, and I'd be making little dummies for each of the sections of the book. And then when they were sort of complete, I'd then take them up to Teddy and go through a consultation with him in regards to how we're showing up. And he'd give me sort of advice and feedback in regards to different parts of it. And then I sort of go away and work on it and come back again. So that's been an ongoing thing. [00:49:09] Speaker B: So Greg's gonna laugh because for some reason I always bring up Money. But to me, it's a really important thing when it comes to being able to follow your passion with photography and do meaningful work like you're doing. How do you go about funding these sorts of projects long term? Is it something that you, you know, you're putting some of your own funds to it from, from paid photography work that you do, from commercial work and that sort of thing? Is it something where you're going out and trying to secure funding from various places or. Yeah. Like how does it work? Maybe for this project, but also just broadly for many things that you do. How does it work and how do you. How do you fund your lifestyle? How do you stay alive? [00:49:59] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a good question, Justin. And it's often very. It's very difficult. A lot of the money that I do put into it is personal, the overwhelming majority of it. Of course, you always seek external support in the forms of grants or assignments. And obviously from time to time you're successful in that. In more recent times, it's been sort of, you know, I sort of feel that the creative period, for me, it's like a third of the year I spend doing school photography, a third of the year I've been doing graduation photography, and a third of the year I get to spend doing my photography. That's how it's been the last few years. And it is surprising how. I mean, I was surprised, I suppose, in a way, just how much I've. I've really enjoyed the school and graduation photography. It's not so much the name, the work per se, but it's being in an environment where the peers that you work with that you share that common interest and passion for photography with. And what I've actually found is that even though the hours sometimes are very long, you do leave feeling really inspired and like you've learned a few things just from the conversations that you've had with different people. And so that's. That's something that. And I guess too, you know, without sort of glossing over it, like, I definitely wouldn't really just so much describe it as a lifestyle because there is a lot of personal sacrifice to make it happen. And I suppose, you know, I've. Where I've got to with it is that I have that understanding of myself that this is something I need to do. This is what drives me as a, as a. As a human being. And. [00:52:01] Speaker A: Oh, I think we've. We've frozen in time. [00:52:05] Speaker B: Yeah, we've lost him. Hang on. We lost you there for a second. [00:52:09] Speaker A: Yeah, we caught the end you're talking about as a human being. [00:52:15] Speaker C: Yeah. If you find your passion in your calling, then you just have to find a way to make it work. And there's been different points in my life, I suppose, where like everybody, I've had my share of challenges and the thing that has really pulled me through those moments has been, yeah, that lovely and that sense of belonging that comes from a authentic connection with the community. And when those connections are authentic as well, you know, it's like, it's amazing how much those communities are able to do to support you in your endeavors. And you know, that's also been an incredible sort of aspect of how I've been able to sustain my practice is through. Has been through that support as well. [00:53:04] Speaker A: Yep. I think you touched on a really important point there around community and the support it offers us. Because often as photographers it's a very lonely solo adventure, you know, unless you're working in a partnership like Justin and Jim did for, you know, 10 years, shooting weddings and events and some commercial work and even then you're kind of in your own head working through the job. And as you know, as a street photographer and a travel photographer, I've only ever really done travel photography solo on my trips to Japan. And it can be a lonely experience. Not everyone needs companionship necessarily, but there is a lot to gain from community support, especially when times are tough. Having like minded peers that can motivate, inspire, support, or even just sit down and have a cup of coffee and, you know, just shoot the breeze is really critical to what we do and I think it's a good outlet. I think without community support, visual creatives like ourselves stagnate because we don't have a feedback mechanism other than our own eye and our own mind telling us that, yep, this picture looks good. And it's not that we need necessarily need it to know we're doing good work, but it does help. At the end of the day, we're human beings and we need validation in varying levels and community provides that in a safe and supportive way. Just before we continue with Nick's story, I just want to reiterate for those of you watching and listening, whether you've just stumbled upon this live show or you're listening to it later, that you are listening to the Camera Life podcast brought to you proudly brought to you by lucky straps from Victoria, Australia. I'm going to jump to a couple of quick comments, so just bear with me, lads. The drunk wedding photographer, who I believe his name is David. When do these Podcasts go live. This is the second time I see it pop up randomly. The homie David from San Francisco also recommended your channel podcast. Well, thank you, David. And thank you, David. We. We air every Thursday. Oh, this is in Australia. [00:55:24] Speaker B: Yeah. So not 9am Melbourne time, which is I think around 2 or 3pm Pacific time the day before. So it'll be Wednesday, 2 or 3pm or something like that. So we do have a schedule. It's not, they're not random. [00:55:38] Speaker A: No, no, no. [00:55:39] Speaker B: But yeah, we, you know, we've recently changed. Exactly. Yeah. So the best way to see the time is we usually schedule the upcoming episodes. And if you go to our channel, the camera Live, you can, if you click on the upcoming episode, it'll tell you in your time when that's going to go live. And then if you, if you make that little thing, you click the thing and it gives you a notification even better. [00:56:00] Speaker A: Yep. [00:56:01] Speaker B: That's optional. [00:56:03] Speaker A: And if you're wanting to know roughly what time it is, if you're in the States, on the which coast is San Fran? West Coast. [00:56:11] Speaker B: West coast, which is the Pacific time, they call it. [00:56:14] Speaker A: I'm pretty sure David from San Francisco says it's beer o'clock, basically. So when you start to feel that urge for a beer, that's when it's time to look for the camera life. Jumping to David from San Fran. I needed the zf. We were talking about gear acquisition earlier. Yeah, the Nikon Z. [00:56:32] Speaker B: Because it looks good. [00:56:34] Speaker A: Because it just looks good. It's a nice, it's a, you know, it's a decorative piece next to his F2, F3s and FM3a. A little bit of banter between the two Davids. Maybe we don't need to show that. [00:56:47] Speaker B: Nah. Anyway, I actually have before since we're derailed and we'll get back into the meat of things in a second. But just to derail things on gear. What cameras are you shooting with these days, Nick? [00:57:04] Speaker C: A diversity, but mostly Sony. So I'm using a Sony A7 Mark 3 at the moment, which I've been pretty comfortable using. I've got a suite of lenses that work with that. And I said I started on Nikon and did enjoy shooting with those cameras, but these days I'm shooting Sony. [00:57:31] Speaker A: So what's in your kit bag when you head up to Bathurst island on one of your many trips? What is your typical go to kit? Because obviously you're going to have some weight restrictions. [00:57:41] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. And unfortunately, Greg, one of the things that I struggle most with in the NT is that I really prefer fixed lens over zoom, zoomed optics. You know, the distortion that comes with this can be, you know, not so conducive, but if you're sort of focusing on landscape and portraiture. So I have my 35, 55 and 85. And one of the challenges in the Northern territories is obviously constantly changing those lenses in conditions where quite dusty and sandy and humid, I would imagine, and very humid. And that's. I've got a few stories about that actually. It is very humid and often, you know, where I, the people that I stay with when I'm off, in response to the humidity, they crank air conditioning full blast. And there's been times where I've taken my camera out of the bag and lenses have been fogged and the camera's basically been frozen. But look, it doesn't take too long to thaw in that heat. [00:58:58] Speaker A: 30 seconds in the microwave. [00:59:02] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:59:02] Speaker A: Sprinkle some rice in there for good measure. [00:59:05] Speaker C: Absolutely, yeah. [00:59:08] Speaker B: Do you, do you have, you know, you mentioned those three primes. Do you have a go to focal length? Like if you were, if you gravitate to something, do you know, do you gravitate to the 35 or. [00:59:19] Speaker C: No, I gravitate to the 85. [00:59:22] Speaker B: Okay. [00:59:23] Speaker C: Yeah, it's so it's an 85.1.8. So they're the aperture I can get nice really wide aperture and I mean, again, it depends on the project. But one of the projects that I've been doing up there has been a long term documentation of the foreshore, the coastal area around Knightcliff. And that's been inspired by a local Larrakia men who I actually my connecting with him began. So he was running the indigenous men's outreach program, was photographing and yeah, he's become like a mentor to me over the many years that we've worked together. And when we were doing the outreach work, often on the way out to the community or to the. On the way like, so we'd normally go and pick the blokes up from the community. And then he had this. It was a thing that he did, but he liked to pick the guys up from the communities and then take them to a space outside the community. And it actually took me a little while to understand why he did that. I did come to understand that part of that was to assist with their focus and application, that he was able to hold their attention a lot better by removing them from a space where they were being subject to constant distractions and responsibilities. One of the things he used to do with me when we were going to and from these programs is that he used to pull me up alongside that particular stretch of coastline and he had this saying that he said to me, which was, watch the water long enough and you'll see fish jump. And I had no idea what this fellow was telling me. Like, I was kind of like. It took me a little while to sort of cotton on to what he was trying to teach me, but basically he was sort of, you know, asking me to, I guess, in a way, be patient and to look beyond the surface of things and to try and anticipate a flash of movement and life when it happens. And in that way, I felt like even though this guy is not a photographer himself, he actually tapped into the essence of what photography is about and helped me refine my understanding of what it was I was doing. [01:02:08] Speaker A: Wow. [01:02:10] Speaker C: And in response to that, over the years, I've spent a lot of time along that coastline doing, I suppose, landscape photographs. And it's fun because I exhibited that work last year in Melbourne. And Rob Lewis, which is the name of my mentor and this man, he actually came down to Melbourne to open to that show. And one of the responses that I got from people who saw that show is that, like, the photographs seem to them as being at once both quintessentially Nightcliff, but not also nothing like what people imagined. When you say, oh, they're landscape photographs of night, like, Nightcliff is known for its jetty. And if you Google Nightcliff, you know, and look at the images, you're going to see thousands of photos of the jetty. The photographs that I made along there over that period in that I exhibited are nothing like that. And part of. Part of that for me was that particular lens, which made me look at things in a way that was about sort of focusing on the detail and how the detail can fit within the broader whole. So, yeah, the 85 mil is definitely my lens of choice. I'm now working on a project in Melbourne photographing the Yarra river. And I'm using that, a very similar. Similar technique. [01:03:56] Speaker A: Oh, very cool. Speaking of techniques, sorry to diverge, but Jim has suggested that I could test my Fuji camera in the microwave for 30 seconds. [01:04:07] Speaker B: Wow. They are just a crop sensor, although. [01:04:10] Speaker A: You got it right. One of my Fuji cameras. Although you've got so many cameras, you don't even know half the cameras you've got. Surely you can microwave one of yours, Justin? [01:04:18] Speaker B: Well, Jim's got two Z8s. He could microwave one of his and he would never know that's. A great. That is the, the Z8. Oh, sorry, not the Z8. What am I talking about the 85 mil for? For being able to explore an area with a different viewpoint at, like you say, particularly different to, you know, if you bring up a landmark or something like that, you're going to see a million beautifully composed wide angle shots at sunset of a jetty or a bridge or something like that, or the Yarra river. So using the 85 as a way to explore, maybe unseen. Yeah, unseen. I don't even know the best way to describe it, but things that may not immediately jump out to the average photographer strolling around. And obviously you've also got a, a reason for documenting it as well. What, what is that? Like, what is that Yarra project? What is it about? [01:05:20] Speaker C: Well, I guess it sort of comes back to that. About the poet. Right. Like the whole point of my understanding of art, photography, poetry is that you are able to, through your words or your picture is to facilitate a transformation in seeing. You're trying to get people to look at something and see it in a new way, in the case of photography, particularly. And so I suppose that one of the things that's sort of come out a little bit with the tan Tippy. Some of the feedback that I've had around that has been that there are really two, two strands of photography involved in that. There's a sort of, I suppose, like a classic documentary approach where, you know, you're getting certain moments and everything's nice and sharp and you sort of, those photographs are telling a story and you're sort of following the story, but in, you know, juxtapose against those images are more abstract, more abstract photographs, often of the landscape. And the thing about that is that I like those images because in a way what I feel that they're able to do is that they're able to encourage their viewers to use their own imagination to try and decipher them. So whereas that classic sort of documentary mode is a little bit more didactic in what it's, you know, showing and revealing and sharing the abstract is, you know, more open to interpretation. And I think that to try and get the two to sit alongside one another, it creates this space where, yeah, like we don't want to be told how to see an image or, you know, how to decipher a story. We as viewers, we all, we all know that. But for me, the thing is, it's not necessarily about that. It's trying to evoke the feeling that comes with the story, whether it Be about place or people or both. And in order to do that, you need to sort of get beyond that, that very literal documentation. [01:07:39] Speaker B: It's something I'm working on, but still do not understand. Yeah, it's, you know, it's going to be a long journey, but I love. [01:07:52] Speaker C: It's. [01:07:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's that. It's that side of photography. You know, I started very much, loved imagery, loved the technical nature of making images. Not creative at all, really, I think, especially in the beginning, and then really enjoyed the documenting people for whatever purpose it was, whether it was, you know, I made a business around weddings and that side of things. But I think what you're talking about there is something that didn't come into photography for me really, at all. It was more like, this is unfolding before me. What's the best way that I can capture it? And the deepest I probably went was, does this image convey the feeling that I felt when I saw it with my own eyes? Was probably the deepest that ever went, if that makes sense. [01:08:52] Speaker A: Yep. [01:08:53] Speaker C: Yeah. And that's. And that's perfectly fine, Justin. I mean, I think the thing as well, too, you know, use words like abstract, maybe. I probably have. That's a little bit too. I think, photographers, one of the things that we know is when an image makes sense visually, and it doesn't matter if that's an image that's sort of literal or even if it's, like, blurred or of something that we can't quite decipher, we're able to go, oh, yeah, like visually. I. Works as a. As a picture. And so I guess that there, for me, there's. It's really just an extension of that intuition. Like, okay, like, if I was looking at that, would I look at it upside down or would I turn the image, you know, and then. And then putting things together in a way that not only makes intuitive visual sense, but also in a way that we go, yeah, wow. Oh, look at that. Like. Or we look at something. Oh, that's so interesting. And then when, you know, when you get a little bit of context and you're able to say, well, that's a photograph of this, or whatever, people go, wow. You know, now I kind of. Now I get it. And I've always been inspired by aspects of photography, and I. The thing always loved about photography is that the best photos are never the ones that you see in the viewfinder. And you, you know, you line them up and get perfect all the elements. It's always the photo that you didn't see that you see sort of in the retrospective act of looking what you've shot that you go, yeah, well, that had. That is something that. I love it because I. You know, it's interesting, that thing about writing and photography. Right. Because the writer, like the painter, it starts inside of us and we kind of put it outside through the writing, through the words, through, or the application of the brush stroke. With photography, it's on the outside, but we need to try and put the inner bit into it. So they're sort of like the reverse process. And. Yeah. I guess what I'm saying, sometimes the photographs don't troll. Are the ones that are most. That you don't have total control over, which you could say is all of them to varying degrees. They're the ones that are. That I find. Yeah. Really, really interesting. [01:11:17] Speaker A: Very cool. [01:11:18] Speaker B: Do you. Sorry, go on, Greg. [01:11:20] Speaker A: No, no, you go. You're the boss. [01:11:22] Speaker B: This will be a tangent, the one that I'm going to bring up. [01:11:25] Speaker A: Yeah, go for it. [01:11:26] Speaker B: I was going to say, do you sell the work that you exhibit? [01:11:31] Speaker C: Sometimes, yeah, sometimes. It depends on the project. And it depends on, you know, so Salt Lame was. Was a big yes with the Tantipi stuff. You know, it depends on the project. So that the purpose of that exhibition was not. Was not to sell work. The purpose of that exhibition was to acknowledge and celebrate the journey that we'd been on together for such a long time. And that as photographers, that's where it does. It can get. It can get quite. You know, it's sort of interesting because on the one hand, we're trying to make them make money. But one of the things that's also always drawn me to photography is that I feel that there's like a social responsibility of the photographer to try and pursue projects and facilitate projects that are actually going to result in meaningful dialogue and communication with the broader public. So a project like Salt Frames is a deeply personal, deeply personal project, as is Tippy, but they're sort of two different strands of my practice. [01:12:51] Speaker A: Yep. [01:12:52] Speaker C: So the challenge is finding a way to balance those two competing strands. You know, and I suppose, like, part of what I love about photography is being able to document the communities and the people that you work with and being able to create that record, like, that's an honor and a privilege to be able to do that. It is. It's one of the. It's absolutely right up there with the most rewarding aspects to photography. But then there's a. You know, I suppose there's. There's that other. That other Pressure that in order to be able to do those projects, you need to find a way to, as you say, be able to sustain yourself. And. And that's where. Yeah, you are looking at alternative methods of employment or whatever it is to try and keep the ball rolling. [01:13:53] Speaker A: Yeah. We do have to pay the bills at the end of the day. [01:13:56] Speaker B: Well, that and also. Oh, sorry, sorry, I muted your mic just then. Sorry. I was just going to say, the cost of putting on an exhibition I can't imagine would be cheap. That's the other thing. Just print. Printing work. I'd love to know a bit more about that process for you as well. Is it something that you do. Do you take it to a lab? [01:14:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. No, it's. It's not cheap. It's really not. But, you know, I suppose the. The thing about it is, is the. So in the case of the Tan Tippy show, we were. Teddy and Theresa were able to get to Melbourne for that event and they were actually able to stay in Melbourne for a week. And we, you know, we did a few things and they did a few things between themselves that they wanted to do. And it was just such a beautiful, you know, celebration of everything that, you know, a connection that has been such a. Such a central part of my life for, you know, close to a decade. The printing. When I do printing, I do have a commercial printer that I use for my printing. They did the printing for Tan Tippie and they also did the printing for salt frames. They were two different types of prints. Salt frames, they were digital C types, which is style of printing that used to be used for more. For analog. So they actually print like a digital negative and then project the negative onto photographic paper, that digital negative onto graphic paper, but they actually do that anymore. So we looked at it at a style for the Tan two prints, which were. Because a lot of those photographs were. Some of the landscapes involved a lot of water. Being an island, you can imagine that there's pretty much water everywhere. We looked at using a metallic slickrock paper to really get that sense of luminosity right up. And then we also mounted those prints. Some were mounted with Dibond, which is a fantastic. That's an archival grade mount. But again, Costa is right up there. So I had to sort of find a way of balancing that with other prints that were mounted on gator foam, which is like a foam. It's an advanced form of foam core. [01:16:37] Speaker A: It sounds very expensive. But having seen the exhibition firsthand and stood close to all of your works and being able to Step back and see them as groups, as groupings, the way that you've arranged them in the exhibition space. They do. They do leap out at you. You know, there's a level of detail and luster in the. In the texture of the. Of the print that just. It really pushes out at you, which is, you know, amazing. Amazing to see. And none of these are. None of these are. I don't think many of them are behind glass. [01:17:19] Speaker C: None of them. [01:17:19] Speaker A: No. No. So, yeah, draw prints speak for themselves. [01:17:26] Speaker C: Yeah. And that. And that's also a thing, you know, when you're thinking about doing an exhibition as to whether or not you do or don't use glass. The salt frames were all framed being salt frames. But, you know, there's also then the question, do you use reflective glass or non reflective glass? And of course, there's different costs in all of this. So I think one of the things that's sort of coming out from the conversation is that, like, I think as a photographer or an artist, you know, you're looking to do something and you have an idea for. You have a vision for what you would like that idea to deal. And one of the things, I suppose I feel like I've learned through operations that sometimes it's not possible to, you know, for you to execute that idea completely in the way that you had envisaged. And there's a constant series of negotiations that need to take place as you go through the process. And ultimately, yeah, you need to work within, you know, with what you have available to you. And it's a bit like that, that saying that I said before that it's not the camera that makes the photographer. It's sort of like, well, it's not having a $2,000 print framed. And that is, you know, I mean, there is a context for that. Of course, if you got the resources, well, that would be beautiful. But there's also like a pragmatic sort of thing that you just. You have to accept. And I mean, there was the option. So, you know, I felt like the. As much as I was disappointed, I couldn't have all of those exhibition photographs on die Bond mounts. I mean, the alternative was to sort of pin them to the walls. And so there are, you know, you just have to make choices as you go through and work within your limitations and try and make the best. The best choices that you. That you can make with what you've got. I think that's the takeaway message. [01:19:32] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think that's good. And we appreciate you sharing that because Like I mentioned at the start of our show today, there are a lot of people, me included, and many people I've spoken to who have always toyed with the idea of exhibiting in a space regardless of the scale of the location. It's just something that's kind of there for them that I think I'm good at what I do. I've got some images that I love and I want to share with others in a meaningful way. And let's face it, photos look good printed. You know, we all too often, and we've talked about this almost every show, the work that, some of the best work that we do is viewed on a screen as it's scrolling under your thumb, you know, and having a print, having a real print, a quality print, or even just a big W kiosk print, you know, it changes the meaning of an image, I think drastically, especially if it's something that you're proud of and that you've, you know, and like Justin said, that it's that whole element of I want that image to represent what I saw and felt in that moment and if you can nail that and then print it, well, that's even better. But I don't want people that are listening along or watching along to be deterred. Yes, there is significant cost in running a solo exhibition especially, and it's not a decision that you make flippantly, but I think circling back to our overarching concept of community, there's a lot of opportunity to display your work with a photography club. Join a photography club. They often have monthly, sometimes even fortnightly competitions and where your work can be displayed. It's a good starting point. It's a safe starting point because you have, for the most part, equally scared like minded peers wanting to put their work up too. I was on the phone this week with a future guest who is actually a photography club competition judge. So he goes around reviewing people's work and providing feedback and obviously passing judgment on what are the best shots or the most creative, whatever it may be in the collection. But there are other ways that you can do it. You can, you know, you can opt for simpler prints, smaller prints, canvas prints. You know, if you really want to go down to a different sort of textured level of print, but run an exhibition with, with a friend or with a group of people from your photography community, share that cost out and the responsibility and the organization and all of those little negotiations that need to happen, they don't all have to fall on your shoulders. So I think there's There's a lot to take away from Nick's experiences in running exhibitions that everyone can learn from. [01:22:32] Speaker B: I've. I've got a crazy idea that's popped up a few times on this podcast and in my random discussions with photographers. And I want to run it past Nick because he's in this space and understands it and has probably crossed paths with way more people that exhibit than I ever have. But the Apple Vision Pro, that's out. Have you, first of all, have you, have you tried one of those, Nick, at all? [01:22:57] Speaker C: I haven't. No, I haven't, Justin. That's. [01:23:01] Speaker B: Yeah, so I haven't tried the Apple Vision Pro, but I have tried the Meta one, the Oculus thing and stuff like that. I end up selling it. It was more just an experiment. I just want to see where the tech was at. But I have this idea of. And it's obviously not going to replace physical in person exhibitions, but the ability to create a space and a layout in a VR world, to put an exhibition together digitally without the cost of printing, but with being able to curate a collection of your own work or of a group of people's work and have it exist digitally that anyone in the world can walk into if they can put on one of those headsets. I just see it as a way that while it, yeah, in many ways would be probably a down, obviously a downgrade from a real physical experience, it could be a way for people to run exhibits, be able to view the work in a way that looks physically bigger than on a tiny little phone or even a laptop screen. Because, because you can actually show your work like you can show an image really large on the Vision Pros. I'm just, I'm interested to see whether there's any rumblings of that kind of stuff in the art world that you've heard. [01:24:18] Speaker C: Yeah, it's great. A great question, Justin. And one thing about Magnet Galleries is the enormity of the space. And probably I have sensed that yesterday when you were at the show and it was something that I found really intimidating when I went in there at first. And what I'm kind of interested in with that sort of is that I think like the way that I have to sort of put that exhibition together will sort of break down different walls and the different sizing and basically curation in a way. It's sort of, it's. It's about relation, scale and proportion. I suppose that those sort of. You sort of working. So to see something visually, even a virtual vision, and to see how certain Work could line up, how things could be grouped, how things could be sequenced, how things exist, I suppose in relation to each other. I definitely see that virtual space is a really useful tool for planning and preparation for an actual show. I do appreciate also that you're sort of saying that potentially it's a more universal and democratic space in the sense that people can potentially experience on some level that presentation or that form without actually physically having to be there. But I guess it comes back. There are two things that do attract me to the exhibition. One is the, like you're saying the thing about being in the presence of a physical print, that there's a tactility to prints and I suppose like an aura that we experience when we're seeing something in the flesh that attracts me to a show. But also the other thing about exhibitions is that sense of community that comes through the event, the opening. You know, you're going not to see the photographs but to interact and engage with the other people that you're sharing that space with. And you know, so yeah, I mean the visuals, the virtual space is something that I think we're all going to have to, you know, think about and take a lot more seriously moving forward. I do think I'm maybe more of a like a little bit of a traditional sort of, sort of dude. But yeah, it's a fascinating space. I do think that sense of accessibility is a really important one, Justin, in terms of being able to have that and perhaps even a great way for people that are interested in looking towards their first exhibition. Maybe that is something that they could experience that first and then they've got a bit of a blueprint in terms of. Okay, so you're basically transferring the skills and the knowledge that you've developed around putting that virtual exhibition together. Well now you've got to apply that to real life. And I think the better your planning is, that kind of comes back down into the costing as well. That if you are, you're really good with your sizes of your prints and you've done your proofings of your prints and you know, you're probably able to get out of producing an exhibition at a much more cost efficient rate than what you would if you sort of just try and wing it, you know. [01:27:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I think there's definitely pros and cons of both and accessibility is one of the biggest issues, I think. You know, even, even just we don't have a car here, the south area headquarters, but we choose not to. So we get around via Uber or public transport. But even Getting out to the Docklands and I live in the city of Melbourne, you know, I'm only 5k's from the city. You know, it's such a pain to get to. I was obviously willing and quite happy to do it. But there is a lot to be said for accessibility. Maybe not in the early days of an exhibition. Maybe we need to stick to a staged approach to virtual access where we hold a in life exhibition in an actual gallery like Magnet Gallery down at Docklands and that's open for a period of time but then later becomes available virtually and then you've got a, you've got an archive of the experience. You know. Another interesting thing I noticed yesterday, visiting your exhibition at Magnet was that one whole wall of Magnet Gallery is glass and it opens onto a very, very open, open air was slightly covered, but lots of white, lots of reflection, lots of light pouring in, which is wonderful. But I thought to myself, if you'd chosen to put glass over some of those images, it would have been a very different experience because the level of reflection would have been drastic. You know, it would have been very challenging some of the way, some of the positions of some of the prints, your ability to kind of view them without having to adjust your alignment to avoid reflection would have been, you know, quite challenging in some of those cases. So I think there's also a lot to be said for when you are moving into considering your first exhibition, working, you know, with the exhibition space, to understand the space and the size and where the light falls and how it's going to look at night and how it's going to look first thing in the morning, where the sun's going to rise and set and all of those elements that really do impact it. The other thing I like about the virtual space with the concept of, of exhibitions is that like Justin said, it is a very cost effective because it's intimidating. Like you've said, Nick, it's intimidating. The potential cost of running an exhibition not knowing if you're going to actually sell prints or if you're going to make any money out of it at all. It is a big investment and there is risk involved, as there is with any endeavor of that nature. But the virtual space does create, especially for people new and maybe it's a younger demographic that'll kind of take this up more than us traditionalists. You know, it does, it does create just an alternative means of showcasing work that is not on a tiny postage stamp size app. [01:31:03] Speaker B: Most importantly, I think that's more where I sort of saw it Obviously I think the idea of absolutely planning and students and stuff, that's probably maybe where it would come in first. I would say, you know, if students could host, you know, a virtual exhibition without the massive costs of things before, maybe they lead into a. Later on in their studies they lead into a, you know, an in person one and that kind of thing. But I'm almost thinking like, you know, I follow photographers on Instagram but I don't want to see their work on, on Instagram. You know, like, you know, imagine if a photographer, instead of following them on Instagram, you can, you can sort of follow there and they might have a few different curated collections of work in different virtual gallery spaces that you can just, you know, sort of wander around and see their work and then, you know, they might open up a new space or refresh a space with some new images or something like that. So rather than sort of just scrolling through their work on that tiny little screen, you can, you can immerse yourself in it. But it could be a more constantly evolving, almost portfolio style. You know, like rather than a website, there's a space that you can go instead of going to a photographer's website, you can go to a space and possibly even like hear them talking about some of the works and stuff like that. I don't know. That's what's been rolling around my head for a while. I'm sure someone really smart will probably do something with it. [01:32:33] Speaker A: Further step beyond that. Justin, sorry to cut you off, do go on a bit mouthy, but taking a step back from that even is tutorial on how to set up an exhibition. You know, we have content. I'm sure that there's content out there on YouTube where it provides guidance. It's bound to be guidance and direction on how to, what's, you know, what's the best way to display your works in an exhibition space. And I think that'll lead to content creators making demonstrations and tutorage on how to create a virtual exhibition. And it's a whole nother skill set there being learned that hopefully will lead to many people then looking at doing like you said, their first physical in person exhibition. It's a really interesting subject and I think it's something that I think we. [01:33:34] Speaker B: Sorry, Nick. Unmuted. You're good to go. [01:33:37] Speaker A: Sorry, you're going to say something? [01:33:39] Speaker C: I was Greg, because I think that's a great point. And just where I'd sort of just expand that a little bit too is the thing. Not only is that sort of preparation and planning not only is it specific to sort of like exhibition prints and the curation of works per se, it's also like events management. So you've not only you've got sort of the thing of working out what photos are you going to shoot at what site, in what sequence, in which gallery, framed or unframed, mounted or all of those kind of aesthetic options you've also got. The thing about planning for an exhibition is that you've also got, you know, you've got to promote it. So whether you do in tandem with the space that you're exhibiting in, whether you're sending emails, whether you're using your own social media, then there's the, you know, if there's an opening event, it's coordinating all of the logistics or is there going to be booze, is there going to be food? Is there what, you know, how those things. And I guess, I guess the reason I'm saying that because people, I mean, this is a photography podcast and it is all about photography. But what I just would like to put on the table in regards to exhibitions is that it almost becomes event management in a way. And that's in all respects they're the skills that probably I found as a photographer the most difficult to kind of develop. And, and so, yeah, so it's, it's just worth sort of, I think it's worth putting that on the table that, you know, and that's where the sense of community is. The guys have mentioned throughout the podcast may, you know, maybe you know, someone that has events in public space before or, you know, that you can sort of get a few, maybe, you know, someone that might be able to sponsor the, you know, because again, the costings extend beyond the, the printing of the photos to gallery hire, catering, the list goes on. So, yeah, it's definitely worth emphasizing that it's not just purely aesthetic concerns that you're dealing with in exhibition together. [01:35:58] Speaker A: I think it's a really good point, I think, and a good takeaway from that. For people that are exhibition curious, you know, get a mentor, get someone that's done it before and, and build a relationship again, community. [01:36:17] Speaker B: Speaking of exhibitions, I'm sure mentors, I'm sure there's a ton of mentors that if you can help them somehow with something they're doing for free, obviously get in there, help them with their exhibition, do anything you can help them put prints up, doing, you know, because you'll learn a ton just by doing that. So find someone that you can help and just start helping them. [01:36:39] Speaker A: Yep. Nick, Just with Tan Tippie, as I mentioned, it's on it. Magnet Gallery in Docklands Melbourne. And there is public transport routes out there. I just don't recommend driving. But how long is the exhibition on for? [01:36:59] Speaker C: Yeah, so the exhibition is coming up to its final days. It's actually coming down on Saturday. So it's been up. It will be almost three weeks that it's been up for. I'll be in the space tomorrow if anyone is interested in coming down and saying hi and checking out the work either for the first time or to see it again. And yeah, so that's. We are, we are reaching the, the end of this iteration. [01:37:32] Speaker A: So that begs the question of what's next? What's on your radar? [01:37:38] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I guess as we've touched on the Line is an ongoing documentary project that we're looking to continue particularly over the next 12 months. I think that some of that infrastructural development that you mentioned, Greg, in your introduction to that project is likely to commence relatively soon. So definitely in terms of getting some of those photos of the spaces before and the communities before that change really starts to take hold, I think is important. [01:38:16] Speaker A: Can I just jump in there for a sec? Sorry, Nick. I think that's a really important point because the changing landscape of inner city, any city, you know, our populations globally are expanding at such a fast pace that inner city areas are changing. And even just driving out. Well, I didn't drive, I was in an Uber. But even just going in air conditioned comfort out to a gallery on the west side of town yesterday, I was absolutely amazed at just how much development there's been in the inner city areas of Melbourne. And obviously I don't get out a lot, but you know, and that that area of Brunswick in particular, where you're conducting much of your work on the line, you know, there's some really aesthetically compelling scenery out there, especially with the train lines. And some of the photos that I saw on, on your website, I've taken very similar shots myself because I had been out there and back so many times on public transport to the Brunswick area. And I've got photos of the silo and there's a beautiful big kind of orangey red apartment building that's got these gorgeous arches that cast really beautiful shadow in the late afternoon. But a lot of that's going to disappear. Well, at least the views will change significantly when that Sky Rail passes further along on its way north. And I think it's an important, maybe just an important lesson or maybe just A consideration for those looking for a project. You know, is your local urban landscape significantly changing? Is there stuff in your area that you know soon will be changed forever? The views will be blocked, maybe there's a high rise going up in your neighborhood. Head out with your camera and document what's there now before you can't see it. [01:40:18] Speaker C: That's a fantastic point, Greg. I think the thing is the change is always happening in community. And so the task of. Part of what your task is as a mentoring photographer is to try and, you know, tap into where that change is happening and, and going about, you know, creating that record that shows. I mean, photography is part of what makes photography is that it's a record of time and place and it's particular and specific in that regard. And with everything changing, those records are always going to be, you know, valuable to some degree. But yeah, so I think you make a great point, Greg. That's part, part of, you know, when you were saying before you've done so many projects and that. Well, yeah, but like, if you're a photographer, it's like you can't help but look at the world and see and have that thought. Well, it's not going to. It may not be like this tomorrow, you know, or it's going to. [01:41:20] Speaker A: Five minutes. Yeah. [01:41:22] Speaker C: You know, so that's part of what I just love about. I've never felt. I've never felt sort of creatively, you know, lacking inspiration when it comes to photography because, yeah, the world is just there waiting for you. [01:41:39] Speaker A: Yep, that's a very good point. We're heading towards the end of the show, folks, and I want to thank everyone who's been listening along or who will come to listen to this later on YouTube. Watch it on YouTube. Sorry. Or listen to it on an audio podcast. Before we jump into the next subject of, of today's show, Justin has a fairly standard question that he likes to ask every guest. But before he does, I just want to preface it with that. Justin, Nick has already been on a remote island with his, his end of days camera. So did you still want to ask the zombie apocalypse question or do you want to slightly tweak it? [01:42:22] Speaker B: I don't. Well, I don't know. Yeah, we kind of already know. I feel like he's probably going to take a. So Nick, we normally ask people like, what if it was, you know, desert island situation, end of the world, you had to document it just with just one camera and one lens. I'll throw it to you. I think I know what you're going to say. But let's see anyway, what would you, what would you opt for? [01:42:44] Speaker C: I'm. I'm not sure. I would say the, the 85 would be what I pull out in that scenario. Surprisingly enough, I feel like part of what lends me to gravitate towards that lens is the personal and the poetic. And I think if I was in a situation like that, that I would really revert back. Understanding that you're 35 is the kind of standard prime. And you know, even if it means that you do want a detailed shot and that means getting physically closer to the subject, then, you know, in this case, the zombies. Yeah. As the zombies made. You've got to get there. That's part of being. Doing what you do. [01:43:31] Speaker A: So no reward without recycling. [01:43:34] Speaker C: That's. That's. Yeah, that's true. [01:43:39] Speaker B: And you'd stick with Sony for your zombie apocalypse or there was something more robust. [01:43:44] Speaker C: I'd be open, Justin. I'd be open to. Yeah. Any sponsorship options could persuade my answer to that question. [01:43:56] Speaker A: Nice. Well played, sir. Well played indeed. Speaking of sponsorship and sloppy Segways, it's time to talk about this show's sponsor, which is Lucky Straps. And fortunately on the show today we have the founder of Lucky Straps. Who would have thought. Justin, do you want to give a quick plug to the Lucky Straps Black Friday sale while we're. While we're live and candid? [01:44:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I wasn't actually going to mention it because I'm not. I'm not sending the email about this until tomorrow, but I have made it live on the website because I have to. I'm leaving to go away for the weekend tonight. So I was like, I want, I want to get all this, but it is, it's live. So if anyone has been thinking of buying stuff, now's the time to do it. Don't run out and buy something just because it's cheap on Black Friday, though. Make sure it's something you really want. And that goes for our products or, or a new lens or a new camera or whatever it is that you think you need. But basically we're doing just 20 off all of our leather camera straps and leather belts. There's a few other things. [01:44:56] Speaker A: You still owe me a belt. I know I'm sounding like a sport. [01:45:00] Speaker B: You can order one today for 20. I'm going to get one down. I've got to get it sorted. But yeah, if you need an Australian made leather belt or camera strap, today's the day it'll run through. It says Black Friday, but It will run through till probably Tuesday morning. Yeah, I'd say. [01:45:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And the, the discount code is BFCM24. [01:45:24] Speaker B: Yes, I made it auto apply this morning anyway, so, you know, you don't actually need it. [01:45:31] Speaker C: It'll just. [01:45:31] Speaker B: It'll just go on so you don't have to worry about that. [01:45:35] Speaker A: David, the drunk wedding photographer wants to know. [01:45:38] Speaker B: Oh, leather belts. What are they? So if your pants are slightly larger than your waist, you can put a thing through all the loops that you might have seen on jeans and stuff and that'll help hold your pants up. [01:45:50] Speaker A: They're there purely by coincidence. [01:45:53] Speaker B: They're just. Yeah, we, we make leather belts as well, as well as camera straps in the same factory. So they're all Australian made? Made here in Bendigo. And we ship them all over the world. [01:46:03] Speaker A: Yep. Little segue on that one. My grandfather always wore slacks. He was, you know, he was the sort of man that wore a fedora every day and a shirt, but his pants were often done up with a piece of rope, even when he was heading to the bowling club. [01:46:21] Speaker B: That's a style thing. I think that is a style thing. [01:46:23] Speaker A: I think that's shoelace belt. Speaking of Black Friday, let's end talking about our wish list. Nicholas, let's start with you. You've talked about your zombie apocalypse camera, you've talked about your Sony workhorse and your love of the 85 mil for the work, for much of the work that you do. Black Friday. What would be at the top of your Black Friday wishlist as a photographer? [01:46:53] Speaker C: Oh, it's a question I've never. I don't even know how to approach, Greg. You could ask me something about philosophy or art, but when it comes to product consumerism. Consumerism, I draw God. [01:47:13] Speaker A: Well, you shouldn't think on it. We'll jump to Justin, who loves to spend a dollar. And I shouldn't complain because, you know, he supports me very well. Justin, what's on your Black Friday? How many tabs have you got open on. On chrome right now? [01:47:31] Speaker B: Okay. [01:47:32] Speaker A: With baskets and carts. [01:47:34] Speaker B: Filled with baskets and carts. Honestly, none. I do have about 40 tabs open currently, but it's. It's all for work stuff. No, nothing. And so there's one lens. After going to Vietnam, there's one lens that I'm keen on, which is the Canon RF28 to 72.8. It's really, really light and I think as a light travel zoom, it's got a bit of appeal to me at the moment. So I'm contemplating that. But I'D be. I'd be making room for that by getting rid of a different lens anyway. But it's certainly not, it's not enticement, honestly. I'm. I'm looking around. I don't think there's anything I need currently. And there's nothing. Nothing that I've been hunting on Black Friday specials. Yeah, go on a trip or something. If you don't. If you need something though, now's the time of the year to buy it because there are deals kicking around. But if you don't need anything, don't fill your carts up for no reason. Hang on. [01:48:29] Speaker A: Well, that's the problem, isn't it? I feel like we've been inundated. I know I have and I subscribe to a fair bunch of email lists for different shops and brands that both Sasha and I like and Christmas is just around the corner and we've got five kids to keep happy on Christmas morning. But a lot of it is just noise. It's more raising brand awareness and offering anything that's really tangible. In terms of sales, sure, there's some great bargains, but what I found with some of the stuff that I emails I've been getting is that they, it's the same sale they had in October. Pretty much in a lot of cases they've just changed the badging and the branding around Black Friday and often they're promoting products that they pretty much know everyone's already got. You know, like everyone's already got good SD cards yet they flog those because. And it almost feels like we're going to put an amazing deal on a product that everyone's already got. But we want to get them to the site and then we can try and sell them the crap that, you know, the margin's high on. I don't know, it's just my, my anti consumer some point of view. But yeah, inundated with Black Friday stuff. [01:49:46] Speaker B: So the, the this comment here. Drunk reading reading photographer says I want the data color Spider Pro to go on sale. That's a good thing that if you need it and it pops up at this time of year on a deal, grab it. It's one of those things that a lot of photographers have. It was a big thing when I first started calibrated monitors. Now no one seems to worry about it as much. It doesn't get talked about anywhere near as much like Mac. Mac monitors certainly have gotten pretty good to the point where you can a lot of the time maybe get away with not calibrating and if you go for like a. [01:50:19] Speaker A: What's that? What's the monitor brand? The really good one. [01:50:28] Speaker B: Do you calibrate your monitors, Nick? [01:50:33] Speaker C: Yes. [01:50:34] Speaker B: Yeah. What do you use? [01:50:37] Speaker C: There is a. There is a sense that maybe that's becoming outdated and I've actually had the monitor that I'm using has been. Yeah. Was calibrated specifically for the exhibition prints, but also when I was doing those Marquette versions of the different photo books, just to get consistency. I think it is. I think it. Even if it's just reassuring you that what you're seeing is an accurate rendition of what, you know, the person on the other end is saying when they hit the print button, I think for peace of mind, it's. It's probably worth it. Just going back to your question about Black Friday sales. If Lucky Straps are able to make some glasses straps, I definitely into those. I've lost two pairs of glasses while I've been photographed. [01:51:29] Speaker B: Oops, hang on. [01:51:31] Speaker A: Yep, yep. [01:51:33] Speaker B: I, I have. I've got designs. We've. We've talked about it. It's just the hard thing is whether they'd be too expensive to worry about it. But, yeah, I'd pay for it if. [01:51:44] Speaker C: They did the job. I tell you, it's a lot cheaper than getting your glasses replaced. Every time there's a pair, I sense. [01:51:50] Speaker A: A collaboration on the way I like it. Look, I think Justin hit the nail on the head earlier that this sale is going at the moment with lots of noise and they make it feel like it's almost a zombie apocalypse sale is that this sale can't be repeated. It's going to be back in two to three weeks and it will be back in January and then February and March because businesses need to keep making money. I'm not talking just about the Lucky Strap sale. I'm just saying in general, this, this consumerism noise that floods our inboxes and our social media advertising, you know, there are other things and better things. Yes, there might be essential gear that you need and now might be the time. But, you know, book an experience, go away for a weekend, even if you can't head overseas to Vietnam. If we're not all the founders of a company, you know, I. I headed down to Emerald and Cockatoo in Regional Victoria, Eastern Regional Victoria last weekend, just for the weekend, and it was a wonderful experience and I got some nice shots. It wasn't a photography holiday, but I took my camera and the opportunities presented themselves and I was happy that I had my camera with me, but it was a great experience and I got away from the city and I got to spend time with my partner and my sister. And, you know, there's more. There's more to life than gear acquisition. You'll all get there eventually. I say, as a gray beard of the industry, you will all get to the point where your gas and FOMO fades and you mature a little and you. You ponder what I can do with what I've got. More than what do I need next? That's my advice. There's another comment there from the drunk wedding photographer. [01:53:37] Speaker B: He's going deep on his imac. [01:53:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm on M3IMAC, but I give a print proof as standard and it's a big deal with prints. I found that prints are a little darker after edits with M3 edits, so I need to pick one up. That's a fair point. [01:53:58] Speaker B: Yep. [01:53:58] Speaker A: And then the next comment, just quickly is, my previous IMAC is a 2015 model. Uh, and the Spyder Pro isn't compatible with the M chips. Yeah, I think I. My last IMAC was a 2015 and it's. It's been retired. [01:54:12] Speaker B: Um, do I've. We've got. At some point on this podcast, Greg, look at. We've got to get through my images to make sure I tick off my box of my challenge. [01:54:22] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [01:54:23] Speaker B: Yeah. But I'm. I don't know whether. Nick, I've got a project going on at the moment. You don't have to sit through it. If you've got somewhere to be, we can wrap up your part of it before we spend five minutes looking through some mediocre images of mine. But I'm basically. I'm doing a project. I decided this is. This will be week five, I think. I decided after doing a workshop at the Bright Festival of Photography, that to try and progress my own personal photography, I would submit a 12 image set each week on the podcast that has some sort of loose theme and is of new images that I've made since starting the project. So. And basically whoever's on the podcast at the time can tear them apart, say whatever they like and critique them. Critique them from the perspective of a set and also individual images. Is that something you want to hang around for? You want to get out of here and sort. Sort some stuff out? [01:55:27] Speaker C: No, I'd be more than happy to see you work, Justin. Fantastic. [01:55:30] Speaker A: Okay. Just. Now hold on to that happiness. Don't get too keen on that happiness. All right, come on, throw them up. Let's see what you got. [01:55:38] Speaker B: I'll bring him up. I'M very open to criticism. So this set is the third set. The last two weeks have been Vietnam images because I did a trip to Vietnam and took a lot of photos. And this will be the third and final time that I share some Vietnam images, and then I'll be moving on to something new next week. [01:56:02] Speaker A: Before you do that, David, the drunk wedding photographer wants to know, what are you drinking, Greg? Well, it's just water. It's just in a fancy glass. [01:56:09] Speaker B: It is in a fancy glass. [01:56:11] Speaker A: And I was drinking coffee in my 70s retro mug. Actually, this is Sasha's, but go tell her. What are you drinking, David? That's what I want to know. Oh, you've gone color. [01:56:24] Speaker B: I have gone color. Up until this point, everything I've done has been black and white. So these are color. They're also lightly edited, whereas most of the other weeks I've done JPEG straight out of camera in black and white. Just for context. [01:56:40] Speaker C: Yep. [01:56:41] Speaker B: All right. Make this a little. [01:56:47] Speaker A: It's got a. It's got a Jeffrey Smart vibe to it. I love it. I love it. [01:56:52] Speaker B: There we go. Try not to knock off too much with the Lucky Straps logo. Ted Air for those listening on audio. Sorry, guys. We're deep. We're deeply engrossed in images. [01:57:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Wow, that's awesome. [01:57:57] Speaker B: So is there any kind of theme in there? I know that's not a great set of images in terms of having some sort of overarching philosophical meaning or something, but there is a theme in there. [01:58:10] Speaker A: Isn't it interesting? Jim asked if it's green. Is that the theme? I was going to ask if the theme was red. [01:58:17] Speaker B: Wow. [01:58:17] Speaker A: Really interesting what we see. I saw all the red elements of each frame. They really stood out to me. Whereas for Jim, he saw lots of green. [01:58:30] Speaker B: You want to take a stab at it, Nick? [01:58:34] Speaker C: I reckon transportation is that it wasn't. [01:58:39] Speaker B: Because that was actually one of the things. It's just Vietnam's transportation is so interesting. Maybe that's what I was drawn to, but that was the first set of images that I did a couple of weeks ago. Was that theme? Jim's right. It was green. It was. I went. I was. I went simple this week. I was just. Because I was editing them in color and I left out a few images I liked because of it. [01:59:06] Speaker A: Because there's no green or. [01:59:08] Speaker B: Because there was no green. Yeah. [01:59:10] Speaker A: Can we cycle through from the start again with that in mind, please? See what stood out to me other than the cow in the field or whatever it is, whatever sort of beast it is. Was the red rooftops in the background. I didn't see the green grass or rice paddies or whatever they may be. I saw the red in the background. [01:59:34] Speaker B: And then you saw the red there. [01:59:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And on the sign and on the bike. [01:59:40] Speaker B: I like the way the yellow. Red and yellow signs and then the, like, green jackets and so, yeah, I enjoyed this one with the. The colors changing on the road as well as the colors alternating up the top. Anyway. [01:59:56] Speaker A: And Dave said, digging the neutral color. It's hard to neutralize the sodium. Warm tones of the night scenes. [02:00:04] Speaker B: Sodium. [02:00:05] Speaker A: Very cool. [02:00:06] Speaker B: Didn't know sodium had a color. That's this image. [02:00:11] Speaker A: I just. [02:00:12] Speaker B: I know this is a stretch, this one. I just liked it. [02:00:15] Speaker A: Yeah, that's great. [02:00:16] Speaker B: There's a green jacket in the background. I'm putting it in. And it's such a busy image too, but I just. I really like the look on the guy's face and the fact that two dude police officers are just, like, riding around dinking on the. On the bike. I just enjoyed that a lot. That's pretty cool. This you can't really see, but it's a completely abandoned beach resort getting taken over by greenery. Yeah, it's pretty cool. A lot of these don't. They don't translate very well to the small. The small screen. They look great on a big monitor. Green, green fan, green tables, green everything. This one was a stretch, but. And again, doesn't translate very well. But I love the way she's looking at the. The tourists. [02:01:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Disdain. Yeah. [02:01:07] Speaker B: A little bit of judgment, I feel, which I enjoyed. And, yeah, there's a little bit of green in the background, but. [02:01:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:01:14] Speaker C: Stretch. [02:01:15] Speaker A: Next one. [02:01:16] Speaker B: And then the lights on that sort of stood out for me. Anyway. [02:01:21] Speaker A: I saw the red hue of the sky with that one. Yeah. Funny how we saw a different color. [02:01:27] Speaker B: Yeah, this. This isn't a great photo, but I really like his foot because he's chilling, which draws me into this. Foot. [02:01:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a bit of a foot thing. [02:01:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that's probably the best shot out of. Out of the set, maybe. I don't know. Anyway, it's not easy. I actually. I did. I enjoyed this shot too. [02:01:52] Speaker A: Yeah, that's cool because the trees are illuminated. Like, they're really punchy. [02:01:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:01:58] Speaker A: Yep. [02:02:02] Speaker B: And then. Yeah, not a lot of green in that one too, but it does kind of draw your eye down the road to the. The green at the bottom. [02:02:08] Speaker A: Yep. [02:02:12] Speaker B: Yeah, it's not. Yeah. Sorry again to subject you to those, Nick. It's not easy. It's not easy doing this each. Each week because I'm. Yeah, like I said, I'm not. Not a super creative photographer. But it is certainly making me push my comfort zone. I'm excited to see. Look when I get to look back after doing this for a year, because that's the plan. Like what. What changes? [02:02:37] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think that there's. Photography works on so many different levels. And, you know, it's not about being a fine art photographer or. Or purely document, you know, often so much. And part of what has been my interest in the podcast is that sense of community when you guys have spoken about camera clubs and that engagement at a grassroots level. People have very different ideas of what photography is and why they may choose to engage in it. And to be going away on a trip and making photographs is obviously a very common thing. I really liked a number of the images that I was shown there, and I was actually. So there was a little bit of potential there for some of the more, I suppose, naturalistic landscapes to be juxtaposed against some of the urban. Some of the more urban spaces. I sort of thought that there was like, when the sequencing of the imagery started to unfold, I sort of thought that that will be the direction that you were heading in, because I could see especially that the one of the green in the. With the red at the. In the. Sort of the foreground. I think it's the second shot. Yeah. Like, they almost sort of continue on from each other, shot one and two, and you're sort of getting like a rural and an urban view. So I think, Justin, maybe one thing that if there was some. To take the challenge to the next level would be to be thinking about combinations of images and how they might work together as pairs and how that sequencing could work to convey a broader narrative. [02:04:28] Speaker B: You know, it's interesting because that was one of the big parts of the workshop that I did with Chris Hopkins and the lady whose name I keep forgetting, I'll Figure it out was about sequencing. And I really enjoyed that part of it. And you know what, when I put these images together and when I just before the podcast, I looked at them and I thought, I don't think I've got it right. But I was really. I can't get this thing out of my head about, I think from being a wedding photographer, stuff like that, that it's like if I mixed up the day images and the night images into a different sequence, that it would be too jarring. But I did look at the. Look at the sequence. And I thought, this isn't a very interesting sequence. It could probably be better and. But I didn't know how to go about it. But, yeah, it's. That's an interesting point that you bring up, because I didn't think it was very good. [02:05:24] Speaker C: No, look. And there are many different ways you can go about it, and I guess how you go about it really depends on the story that you're trying to tell, which. Working out what that story is the great challenge that I suppose photographers have, it does raise a particular point. Often we go away and we're shooting and we're working on something and we don't know what the story is because we're photographing and we're the images. And that was an incredible thing about Tan Tippie as well, is that just in relation to that project, it became very clear at a certain point that the story was about that country and the connection that. That family group with that country. There were many years there where I. It hadn't crystallized in that understanding of what was. Hadn't. It wasn't. So the thing is with photography is often we're doing it before we know what the form is sometimes. And. Yeah. And whether you're thinking about images just in relation to the ones that you've shown there, Justin, whether you're thinking about them in terms of colour, whether you're thinking about them in terms of landscape, whether it be like an urban and a rural juxtaposition or a night and a day sort of juxtaposition. Ultimately, they're the things that. They're the decision that we've got to make. And that sort of does require a skillset that is in some ways quite different to the mechanics of actually making a photograph. So it's. Yeah, it's so. So deeply fascinating. And I would have. I was really struck by the use of color in the photos as well. And I didn't necessarily pick up on green or red as a specific color. I just thought the colors in general was something that had been really emphasized and there was a sensitivity there that was by photographer. Like that one where you said, oh, you can't really see that guy on the green box as he dips out of the frame. He's exactly what I noticed in that photo. And to me, it actually does make. When he said that the collection was unified by this interesting green, I was like, wow, that's. That makes perfect sense. And that would be the photograph that communicates that the most to me. So, yeah, it's terrific. And I Suppose what we're saying here is that, yeah, photography often starts with a process of making pictures, but it can evolve into a storytelling. That process can evolve into a storytelling and a narrative as well. [02:08:08] Speaker A: But after the fact. [02:08:10] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Well, ideally you want a level of overlap. So at some point you need to know, okay, well this is what I'm, what the story is and what I'm. And what I'm going after. Because then you've still got a little bit of potential to get those images that tell the story. I think sometimes photographers too, we're often after those hero sort of shots, those shots, those shots that you just see and you go, wow, you know, like that. But in telling a story, even though you still want to have those so called hero shots, you also need shots that are there purely because they're filling a narrative or sequential function. And that was a thing that I really learned in putting that the book that's part of the exhibition together was that and why I needed to be clear about what the story was before I, you know, while I was still working on it. Because, yeah, you then start to identify certain scenes that you may, or moments that you may have let go. All of a sudden you go, oh, well, I've got this and I've got that. And what I'm trying to communicate is this. So in that context, this particular image is actually going to work for me. [02:09:23] Speaker B: Yeah. And like say you start, get to start looking for those things while you're still finishing the project. [02:09:29] Speaker C: Absolutely. Because it, and, and when I first started, that was the thing. There were projects that I do and I'd finish shooting and then try and assemble the narrative retrospectively. And you realize that there are gaps and there are certain things that you can do with those gaps to film. But there's nothing like being able to go, well, greater. There's another week, I've got another week of shooting. And I know these are the types of the ages that I'm looking for because this is the story I'm trying to tell. So that's. Yeah, it's terrific. To me, that's the best part of photography when all those planets are starting to align. [02:10:06] Speaker B: Thanks so much. Awesome feedback. [02:10:09] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And it would have been interesting to have seen the black and white too, because as I said, I was really quite struck. It makes sense why those photographs were shown in color, having seen them. So that's really, you know, if the black and white had that one of the guy on the green black and white, the would have been a very different. You know. [02:10:32] Speaker A: Yep. [02:10:34] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. No, thank you. It's like I've assembled my own creative arts degree on this podcast by doing this every week with a different photographer. It's actually been very, very cool. [02:10:47] Speaker A: I hope you're taking notes. There'll be a question. [02:10:48] Speaker B: Oh, I am, I am. I just hope I get better by the end of the year is the plan. [02:10:52] Speaker C: I do. [02:10:53] Speaker B: I do get. [02:10:53] Speaker A: As long as you're getting out and trying, you will. [02:10:56] Speaker B: Exactly. Got a little bit of feedback in the chat about applying vertical correction in Lightroom for architectural shots. And it's funny, it's something that I used to do and I don't even gravitate towards it at all anymore just because it often looks unnatural. But looking at the one shot particularly there were scooters in front of a hotel. It's, it's very, only very minorly tilted and it probably would work to do a correction on that. But yeah, I don't for some reason doesn't pop into my head anymore. Used to when I was learning photography and it was a new tool in Lightroom and. But I think it often looks unnatural depending on how you know how much angle you're putting on a building. But yeah, good feedback. I'll revisit that. [02:11:38] Speaker A: Thank you, David. Look, on that note, I think it's time to draw a close to today's show. As long as everyone's in favor. Justin, have you got your little kind of satisfaction building feedback? You've got enough of that. [02:11:55] Speaker B: Oh, I feel great. That was awesome. I'm pumped up for the weekend. Hey, quickly, before we do finish as well. Tamron sent me, sent me this. It's a crop sensor RF lens. Canon, Come on. Come on, Canon. Focus on me. There it is. So it's a crop sensor, wide angle lens, 11 to 22.8 to try out because I can actually try it out with my R5. But what really excites me is so this is for crop sensor. So Sigma have released some Canon crop sensor lenses. Now Tamron have released a crop sensor third party lens. So Canon RF system might finally be seeing some cheaper, more affordable lenses for their RF system crop sensor only at this stage. This so far in my testing has been very like everything works the way it's supposed to at Sharp. Autofocus is great. So yeah, we might finally be able to unlock some cheaper third party lenses for that newer system which would be pretty cool. [02:12:54] Speaker A: That is good news. [02:12:56] Speaker B: I'll do more of an update on that next week. But it's literally, I think it's become available as of today or yesterday or something, so. [02:13:02] Speaker A: Well, lucky you. Look at you. Influencer. Hey. [02:13:05] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I know. How cool, right? Shop the link in the description below. [02:13:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I get a little cut back. [02:13:11] Speaker B: From your camera store. Yeah. [02:13:13] Speaker C: That is a super, super wide lens. Yeah. Wow. [02:13:17] Speaker B: Well, it's on crop 11, so what? That's like 16 or whatever. So it's. Yeah, it's not, it's not super wide. It's very comparable to my 15 to 35. It's not quite as wide as the 15, so. But yeah, but it's small. Like it's small and light. I hopefully, I don't actually know what the price is. [02:13:36] Speaker A: Tamaron's usually good value for money. You don't get the bells and whistles, but you, you get great image quality. [02:13:43] Speaker B: Well, on this, one thing you do get, which is kind of weird, is a USB C port. [02:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah, they all have that for firmware. [02:13:49] Speaker B: Does that mean it's not weather sealed? Where is it? Come on. [02:13:52] Speaker C: There. [02:13:53] Speaker B: There it is. [02:13:54] Speaker A: No, no, I don't think the Tamrons are. I'm just currently reviewing a whole bunch of Sony e Mount Tamrons for ShopKit and most of those aren't weather sealed and they have a USB C port, the firmware, and they even come with a little cable. [02:14:11] Speaker B: Nice. [02:14:12] Speaker A: Usually look. On that note, I want to draw a close to today's chat. You've been watching the Camera Life podcast. It is episode 40 as I mentioned at the start of the show. And yeah, we're only four weeks till Christmas, so I want you all to have a look at your wish list and have a think about what's on your wishlist for this coming holiday season. You know what do you hope that the big guy in red drops into your stocking, your Christmas stocking, that is. And leave it in the comments. Let us know. But more importantly, I want you to have a think about. We covered a lot in today's show, a lot around the. The artistic side of what we all love and do. And what is your take on some of Nicholas's comments and philosophies around photography? He's obviously got a very well honed understanding of what he's doing with his craft. Do you have a similar level of awareness of what you're actually trying to achieve? Leave it in the comments and ask any questions that you want and we'll get to them in next week's episode. But on that, I just want to thank Nicholas for joining us today. We really appreciate you sticking around for the full show and sharing with us what is obviously a very personal project that you're passionate about. And you've got a very deep sense of responsibility and connection with the country and the people, as you call them, the custodians of the land. And I think it's really important what you're doing in observing and faithfully documenting and celebrating what a single family, first nations family, you know, is doing in one of the most remotest parts of Australia. It's a brilliant project. And if. Look, you've got a couple of days. If you're in Melbourne, head down to Docklands, go to Magnet Gallery, check out Nick's work, Be sure to sign the guest book to let him know what you thought. But Nick, where else can. Can people see your work online? [02:16:21] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I've. I've been trying to make a little bit more of an effort with the social media, particularly on Instagram. It's not a platform. I suppose social media is just not something that really come sort of naturally to me, but I am trying to achieve a consistency of visibility there in that space over the last few years. So my Instagram handle is just his name, Nicholas Walton Healy. My last name is obviously hyphenated. There's in the Instagram handle, so it's all just in lowercase. My full name and my website. I think everyone's website's always a work in progress, but as the exhibition sort of here, that'll be, you know, I'll make sure I get on an update on that. My website's nwhoto. And that does provide a pretty. A pretty comprehensive overview, not only of the different projects that I've done, but, you know, the different media that I've been part of in talking about my work and sharing my work. It does include a lot of links to that stuff as well. [02:17:40] Speaker A: So very comprehensive, is there? [02:17:43] Speaker C: But, yeah, and I just wanted to thank the pair of you as well for having me on show. I've actually got to know Greg, I feel like sort of got to know each other over the last week and it's been. That's been a really nice connection to have developed. And I know that I mentioned it to you, but I'll definitely say it on here and to Justin as well, that I suppose, you know, I've really enjoyed the conversational aspects of the way that you go about, the conversational nature with which you go about doing these podcasts. I felt quite. I'm quite an intense person, as you probably have picked up in some of my responses, but felt quite Relaxed and safe in this space. And that's a credit to the way that you guys go about things. And of course, you know, your passion for photography certainly shines through and that's. That's something that we. Yeah, that's. That's worth sharing and celebrating as well. So grateful for the, for the opportunity and for the, for the time in the canal. [02:18:53] Speaker A: Thanks, mate. That means a huge amount. [02:18:54] Speaker B: It does. It means a lot. That's what we're trying to do. So it's awesome that that's hopefully coming across, that's all. Yeah, really appreciate it. [02:19:01] Speaker A: Yeah, most definitely. [02:19:02] Speaker C: No worries. [02:19:03] Speaker A: Well, as I mentioned, if you're in Melbourne, head down to Magnet Galleries for Nicholas's exhibition. Only a couple of days left, but, you know, if you're not in Melbourne, no matter where you are, look up what's what. Photography exhibitions are being posted locally. Maybe there's a local photographer that you can support. Head down, check out the show. You don't have to buy a print, but just show up in solidarity to support someone else's vision and demonstrate to them that community is still important in our craft and that even just by striking up a conversation with another photographer, you can make a world of difference. But look, on that note, thank you again, Nicholas. [02:19:48] Speaker B: Thank you. [02:19:48] Speaker A: Thank you, Justin, for paying the bills. [02:19:50] Speaker B: And thank you, Greg. [02:19:52] Speaker A: You're very welcome. And this has been the Camera Life podcast. We'll be back next week, same time, 9am Australian Eastern Daylight Time on Thursday. [02:20:03] Speaker B: David from San Francisco will be there with a question next week, which is exciting. He said he's going to hold it off till next week. Drunk wedding photographer says great live stream. He'll check out the previous ones. Count me in as a new subscribe. Thank you. [02:20:16] Speaker A: Two subscribers. [02:20:17] Speaker B: Check out what, what episode would you recommend to check out, Greg, after Dennis Smith. [02:20:24] Speaker A: Dennis Smith stands out. Pretty inspirational. [02:20:27] Speaker B: I mean, there's a ton like. [02:20:29] Speaker A: Yeah, look, it depends on what you're after, you know. Charlie Blevins gives us an insight into working for a photography brand. Ian Tan is exploring new horizons with cosplay photography. [02:20:42] Speaker B: Because he's a wild surfing legend. [02:20:44] Speaker A: He is. [02:20:45] Speaker B: If you're into surfing at all, listen to the Russell Lord episode. [02:20:49] Speaker A: Yep. Matt Crummonds. Not just for his work with the Bright Festival of Photography. I mean, that is one of his standout, I guess, attributes on his resume. But also, you know, he does some incredible black and white underwater ocean photography that is really unlike anything you've seen. He also runs a lot of wildlife photography workshops. He's been a Fiji film ambassador. You know, put a printer list, throw a dart at it and make a start. [02:21:16] Speaker B: Oh, if you want an interesting one, you want to go way back pre Greg times. Listen to my epically long discussion with it's not coming to my brain. Where is it? [02:21:29] Speaker A: That's why it was. [02:21:30] Speaker B: It was. [02:21:31] Speaker A: It was not. [02:21:32] Speaker B: It was great. Where is it? [02:21:38] Speaker A: So memorable. [02:21:42] Speaker C: Sigh more. [02:21:43] Speaker B: Episode 11, New Zealand All about creativity. Creative diet for photographers. That is an epic episode. Go back to that from 2023. You'll love it. And otherwise. Yes, frog, I did sleep with an R1 in bright slipped my way to the top and yeah, and maybe we will have to get. [02:22:07] Speaker A: All right. Yeah, that's how memorable it was. Oh, I've gone silly now and I need to wee. All right, let's do it. [02:22:15] Speaker B: Let's wrap it up. [02:22:16] Speaker A: Let's wrap it up. Thanks again for watching. Stay tuned for next week. Make sure you subscribe like and hit the bell and we will see you soon. Get out and shoot. Bye, guys. Where's the music?