EP31 The RISE of Russell Ord Surf and Lifestyle Photographer

[00:00:08] Speaker A: Good morning. Welcome to the Camera Life podcast. This is episode 31, proudly brought to you by lucky camera straps from Bendigo, Victoria. And it's the Thursday here in Victoria. It's Thursday the 26 September. I think there's like 95 days till Christmas, 2024. That's scary. Didn't we just have like Easter or something? Coming to you live today on the, on the YouTube at your eyeballs. But don't forget, we're also. You can also come back and watch any of our episodes at any time you want on demand. And also we're low. Sorry. We're available on audio podcasts for your earballs whilst Justin and I. Hi, Justin. How are you? Mated? [00:00:56] Speaker B: I'm good. How are you? [00:00:57] Speaker A: I'm all right. Well, Justin and I are coming to you live from Victoria in Australia. Our special guest today, Russell, is coming to us from a terrible location on the back of a winery in the Margaret river of WA. Welcome, Russell Ord. [00:01:12] Speaker C: Thanks for having me, lads. [00:01:14] Speaker A: Good to have you on board. We've been keen to get you on for a while. The name popped up very early in the conversation and last week we were joined by Jason Lau, who's a commercial photographer shooting with Sony. It's very nice to have a Fujifotographer back, finally. We don't get enough Fuji photographers on this show. [00:01:33] Speaker C: I think you've outnumbered it by the look of it. [00:01:36] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:01:37] Speaker C: I think you've outnumbered them, by the look of it. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Yeah, it's all Fuji all the time. [00:01:42] Speaker A: I mean, I organise a guest, I don't know how that happens, but yeah, welcome to the show. Russell, you're an ocean photographer, you're a surf photographer, you also do a bunch of other work. You're a Fujifilm ambassador, if I have that correctly. And yeah, welcome to the Camera Life podcast. It's great to have you on. [00:02:03] Speaker C: Cheers for having me. [00:02:06] Speaker A: Great. We're going to get stuck into your story. Oh, wow. There's already a bunch of comments coming in very fast. [00:02:16] Speaker B: Yeah, the people have been excited for this. There's even Grant who, former, former co host Grant, who can't be around to listen today, said he was going to pop a heap of questions in the chat, so we'll bring them up later on. But he's got four questions straight from the start. [00:02:29] Speaker A: Yeah, he wasn't there very early. [00:02:32] Speaker B: He's got to work, though. [00:02:34] Speaker A: So before we have a look at your current work, Russell, take us back to when you first started in photography. What was your inspirations to, you know, when did you first pick up a camera what was your first experience like? [00:02:51] Speaker C: Well, I'd love to have some sort of fairy tale sort of story, but I don't like, you know, you hear a lot of photographers, you know, their grandfather handed him down an old film camera and that all started from there, or they did art class, but I was just purely a surfer that just got injured and then picked up a camera. Well, mate gave me his old man's camera and just started shooting them and then just fell in love with it from there. So it was, yeah, no fairy tale. I'm more, I'm more like a jock sports nut than a arty photographer, that's for sure. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I might disagree. We'll show you. So we'll show you some of your work later. There's some arty, arty, arty farty stuff in there. [00:03:31] Speaker B: I think it sounds like a fairy tale. Sounds like the classic fairytale story to me. You know, like I got injured, picked up a camera, next minute, published all the famous and, you know, sounds like a perfect fairy tale story. [00:03:45] Speaker C: Took a little while. Like, I started off in the film days and then I jumped early to digital and what, probably shot film for about three or four years and just shot slides and, you know, you're swimming out and taking a one shot every, geez, 20 minutes if you're lucky. You don't want to be. Wait, you don't want to be swimming in and swimming back out and. Yeah, jumped to digital early, didn't like it, went back to film and then by the time I did all that and wasted a heap of money, it was back on digital again. So, yeah, I wasted a lot of money in those early days. [00:04:20] Speaker B: You went back and forth. [00:04:22] Speaker C: Yeah, just went digital back to film. Back to. Yeah, I jumped too early. I should have just held off for another year or so. [00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:30] Speaker A: Was it because you, I think we spoke to Jason about this last week. Was it because you found that the digital resolution just still didn't match film? [00:04:39] Speaker C: Oh, it was more the fact that the magazine was, the magazines I was doing some work with were still only, you know, taking on slides. You know, I thought it jumped, you know, some other photographers did. Well, like they, they jumped early and then stuck with it. But I. So, yeah, I mean, I still had all the film gear and it was an easy thing back and forwards, but, you know, selling and buying and selling, especially back in those days, it seemed like it was pretty bloody expensive, the digital cameras. [00:05:10] Speaker A: Fair enough. [00:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. [00:05:12] Speaker A: They still are based. [00:05:14] Speaker B: Well, depends on, depends on which brand you get those Fujis. Are expensive. [00:05:19] Speaker A: Like a q three, Boyden. [00:05:21] Speaker C: Oh, nice. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't resist. [00:05:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. Okay, so when you switched back to digital, were you. Did you start shooting digital on Nikon? Was that the first? [00:05:36] Speaker C: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Because I had film bodies and just stuck with Nikon because, you know, how they. How they went and the lens is sort of matched up. So it was pretty easy. So I went from a. I think it was a yde. Maybe I had an f 100. [00:05:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:52] Speaker C: And an f four. And then I can't remember the first Nikon digital. [00:05:57] Speaker B: Did you ever have. Have one of these bad boys? F five? [00:06:00] Speaker C: No, I didn't go to the f five. Oh, yeah, maybe. [00:06:05] Speaker B: Yeah. I love this thing. It's a brick. [00:06:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Now I've got an f four up there somewhere. But it's. No, I think it was just the. The f f four. But, like, you see, you. I mean, back then, you could go through a roll of film in what, a second? Couple of seconds? [00:06:23] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Because I think it's a let. It's eleven or ten or eleven frames a second or something like that. [00:06:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Crazy. [00:06:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:30] Speaker B: Expensive. [00:06:33] Speaker A: And so tell us about, you know, with your film camera. I mean, obviously today we have, you know, a lot more, I guess, engineering capability in making underwater housings for cameras. You know, some people could probably even 3d print their own if they were really clever. What was it like back shooting with a film camera? What sort of housing were you using? Like, how were you actually managing that? How would you wind a slide on? [00:07:00] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, it was all like the f 100 just wound on automatically anyway, so that was fine. I had, like, I wasn't with Aquatech back then. I was using this water housing guy from California. And it was basically just a tin box. And I think I. I was shooting. It was pretty good for me because I was just shooting white all the time because I just love being up close. I just swim out and just shoot fisheye, basically, because it's just so, so much enjoyment. So I just preset the focus so I didn't need to worry about that. I'd preset the aperture and then I'd manually control the speed because it basically had one dial at the back. [00:07:43] Speaker A: Yep. That's crazy. [00:07:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Completely different world in terms of the barrier to entry to get. To get a sort of a great surf photo back then versus now. It's. It's. [00:07:58] Speaker C: Yeah, you get instant feedback. Now you can. Trial and error and you can. I mean, you can shoot anybody because what are you not really wasting film? I was just like, you know, 36 shots. And some of the swims I would do would take me 25 minutes to get out the back. You don't want to be swimming in and then swimming out again and then. So you'd line up with a. We've got a lot of great local surfers here and you wouldn't even take a photo because, you know, they're not going to make the magazine because they don't really have stickers. So it's, you're just out there working with crew that, you know, you're going to be able to at least get it published. I mean, I wasn't like a star photographer or anything, so I wasn't getting film bought me up. I was just doing this sort of as a side hustle. [00:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, right. [00:08:46] Speaker A: And so when did the side hustle become your main hustle? And what was hustle before you hustle? [00:08:53] Speaker C: I was a fireman. Yeah, I got in the fire brigade pretty early age at 20, which is kind of rare. Like, I didn't actually even want to get in. I was playing rugby league. I was with the Western Reds at that time and a mate just said, look, go for it. He was in the fire brigade. And then by the time you're 24, 25, ready for a career change or something like that, it'll work out well. And I just sort of snuck through the back door and got in first go. So it was just like they had to really make a decision what I wanted to do and, you know, it's a tough game, like you can get injured and sort of went with the. The career change and went in the fire brigade, still played rugby league, end up working the fire brigade for three years and then getting a contract for Adelaide Rams in the Super League. What was it wasn't the Super League or they were just coming back. I mean, this is all sort of foreign to you guys. Probably been from Vico, it's all your rules. [00:09:51] Speaker B: But. [00:09:52] Speaker C: But I still love the game and I. They got kicked out of the comp with me and my wife now, whose girlfriend back then. We flipped a coin to see what we were going to do and I went back to the fire brigade. So I had a choice between the fire brigade and maybe going to Queensland to play in the Queensland cup. Yeah, yeah, right, well, sorry, sorry, I didn't answer your question then. Full time photographer for 13 years. Twelve or 13 years, yeah. So I did 1819 years in the fire brigade at the same time doing photography. So it was perfect and it was like an apprenticeship, real long apprenticeship. And then went full time when I was, like, 38. So I'm 50 now. Yeah. [00:10:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Joined the club. [00:10:48] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. That's, um. [00:10:50] Speaker A: Yeah, it's quite a pressing career. [00:10:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And a great way to kind of build and grow your photography without having to make the jump, like, straight away, like. So during that time you were getting published, while you were still working as a fiery. You were sort of working with magazines and things for surf all through that. That time or not all through that time. [00:11:14] Speaker C: Sort of pretty much all the time. Like, the first five years in the fire brigade, I didn't even send a shot into the magazine because you can. You can tell you're not up to speed. It was like an apprenticeship. I sent my first shot in of a guy called Tom Innis at North Point. Like, swimming. Massive north Point. And I just knew it was a good shot because it's easy to compare your work to pick up a magazine. You know, you're not up. So it's. It was a good apprenticeship and, you know, I already had the water background. I already surfed, so it wasn't. That's the hardest part about surf photography, like, real surf photography. I mean, being in the water, you gotta. You gotta get used to the ocean, and especially here in Margaret river. This is like, this is a different beast over here. [00:11:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Pretty dangerous, right. [00:12:02] Speaker C: Well, I'm out injured at the moment, like, just surfing. Got hammered into the reef at this outside spot I surf, and there was. I drove my elbow up through my shoulder, dislocated my shoulder and tore off the bicep. Yeah, it can do some damage. And I wasn't even in a bad situation, really. Not what I thought it turned into one. But just. [00:12:26] Speaker B: I have a feeling your definition of a bad situation and my definition of a bad situation is slightly different. [00:12:33] Speaker C: Yeah, I'd say so. I've done a couple of workshops with crew, and the first question I ask is, how good are you in the ocean? [00:12:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:42] Speaker C: And, yeah, it just doesn't even mean anything. And then you go. You go out with them and you're like, Jesus. Like two foot. Like they're basically drowning. Like, crikey, they said they were good. This is nearly like, kitty, kitty. [00:12:55] Speaker B: Fun size nippers. [00:12:59] Speaker A: Yeah, call them nippers over here. Might jump to a couple of questions because they're starting to build up. This one came in before we even went live from Granthenne. Ever had a scary encounter in the water? You just talked about one. You said that it turned scary. Was that because of the extent of the injuries or you felt a bit panicked with one arm out. [00:13:20] Speaker C: No, it was pretty good. Like, it wasn't actually. I just basically, when I hit the reef, the impact was so hard, I instantly thought I broke my arm. So I was underwater checking for the injury and then felt my shoulder was like, way at the back. Then I'm like, okay, I'm dislocated. Shoulder came up, got one breath, got hit by the next wave, got a double wave hold down. It was. I teach, like, breath hold training with Shannon Worrell from shark eyes. So it's about, I've practiced so much, like, keeping calm in those situations, it's not really that difficult. Plus, being, you know, my history of being in the fire brigade, you've got to keep calm, otherwise you'll be in a world of hurt, especially underwater. If you, if you panic, the breath hold journey is just awful. Like if you're kicking with your big legs and you're trying to get to the top. I just came to the top when it allowed me to get there. Plus, I could basically not swim. And then I really just had to breathe through it because it took 45 minutes to get in. And anyone's dislocated a shoulder and especially how high, it's. It's just awful. But no, that wasn't really scary. I just knew that I was in a lot of pain and I was just like, just not another injury. [00:14:40] Speaker B: So it was more that the disappointment, knowing you're like, now I'm out for a while and, yeah, all that starts sort of hitting out for a year. [00:14:50] Speaker C: A year, yeah. [00:14:53] Speaker A: That's huge, mate. [00:14:55] Speaker B: Our other co host, you can actually see him if you can see this comment that we've brought up from Grant that, that face that's been pasted over someone else's body, that's actually Jim, our other co host is not here. Oh, yeah, he had a run in on his dirt bike and like snapped his femur, went through the leg and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, he's been out for, it's been over twelve months now and he's just had another surgery on it. Yeah, just recently, which is why he's off the podcast at the moment. So, yeah, he's going through that similar. [00:15:26] Speaker C: Thing, dangerous, you know, snap femur. You can get internal bleeding. You can. Yeah, you can. Pretty dangerous. [00:15:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, they, they airlifted him. It was a pretty rough one, the poor fella. So, yeah, and I think he was sort of saying recently with, you know, having to go through surgery again, it's just that realization that you know, you're back. You're back out again for a long time and that's. Yeah, it's a rough mentally. To deal with that. [00:15:53] Speaker A: A lot of your life stops. [00:15:55] Speaker C: Yeah. You've got to be mentally tough with the. With everything. I mean this is. I've done the other shoulder exact same surgery about four years ago, so I've already been out a year. And anyone that plays rugby league, you know how to deal with injuries. You can easily just sit on the couch and just drink yourself to death, basically, or you can just get on with life. I mean, it's not really that difficult in the end when you compare it to other people's. [00:16:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. A shoulder's not as bad as many other potential injuries. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:28] Speaker A: Perspective still sucks. [00:16:30] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:16:32] Speaker A: Second question from Grant. What's your favorite lens at the moment? [00:16:38] Speaker C: Oh, the favorite lens at the moment is probably a long lens because I can't actually do much, but in the water it's always. It's always the wider the better. Because I just love being like in the action. So I'm basically have gone shooting full time GFX in the water as well. So it's the. I've got the 23. [00:17:01] Speaker B: I was going to ask that we'll jump around all over the place from story to gear and back and forth and. Yeah, but that's what I really wanted to find out because I know you were primarily shooting the X series in the water, even when the sort of the earlier when the GFX come out. So you're shooting primarily GFX now in the water. [00:17:20] Speaker C: I've only got GFX now. Like it's. I was doing both when the JFX come out. I got a housing made straight away because I just in love with the files. And when I'm what I like, you know, textures or waves and stuff, I love shooting, not surfing. I'll use that. Cause I don't really care if I miss a shot. It doesn't matter if you miss a shot with a pro surfer, you know, they'll probably have a soot for about a week. I'm not really doing that much now, so I can say that, but yeah, so I used the X series if I needed to. I needed the speed or the frame rate and stuff like that, but now I'm not really shooting that much surfing. And then with the new GFX I can shoot surfing as well. I mean I still do on the other one as well that you just had to do work arounds. [00:18:11] Speaker B: Yep. So do you find with the new GFX, like, so the series twos that have the faster auto focus. Like where would you, have you done enough work with them with action to say like how would you compare them to an X series? Like what X series would you normally shoot with if you were doing action? You don't have many more, but if we using like the X T five or something like that. [00:18:35] Speaker C: Or the Xdev XH two. [00:18:39] Speaker B: X h two. So how would the new GFX compare to that, do you think? If you. If you had to say for autofocus, are they close or is there still a big gap there or still a gap? [00:18:50] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm only comparing the GFX to the first GFX. [00:18:55] Speaker B: So huge up forward. [00:18:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:59] Speaker B: Right. Yeah, big, big jump forward, but still not quite to something like the XH two, which is there fastest sort of sports. [00:19:07] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. And that's, you know, and the frame rate and it's pretty good. But it's. It's just so much gear, you know, you've got two lots of gear. It's. Most of the work I do is more like for my own, for the gallery or commercial work now, so I don't really need the speed. And if I do need it, I can still get it. [00:19:26] Speaker A: Yeah, Michelle. [00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah, nice. [00:19:29] Speaker A: We'll come back to your gear a bit more later on. Third question from, from Grant. That's the grant Fleming show, everybody. Favorite time to shoot. You said you're an early riser. [00:19:43] Speaker C: Yeah, definitely. The, you know, the half an hour before sun and then, you know, half an hour after and you can do that in the afternoon as well. If I could just shoot those times in the water, that's all I'd do. Yeah, it's nice. I mean, you. It's. It's good too, because it's. You've got a lot of. If you're shooting for yourself and you're going to a certain spot and it's quite secluded, you're out there on your own. It's a beautiful feeling, you know, all your sense. Quite heightened, actually, especially around here. Like you're swimming out. Depends how far you swim out. You, like you can hear everything. Feel and hear everything. [00:20:20] Speaker A: Wow, that's pretty cool. [00:20:23] Speaker B: It sounds like the dream. Just get out there in the middle of nowhere and just surrounded by the water and take it all in. [00:20:31] Speaker C: Yeah. It's such a good feeling. I mean, it's not even really the camera, it's just the water for me. Like I'm doing. Like I'm trying to go really heavy on the rehab at the moment, so I've been doing my 1015 minutes rehab in Bordeaux in the ocean, and it's just such a good feeling. Yeah, the camera's just a bonus. The surfboard's just a bonus. You just need to get wet. [00:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:54] Speaker A: Nice. And the last question here from Grant is, what's, who's your favorite surfer at the moment? [00:21:01] Speaker C: Oh, famous surfer at the moment. [00:21:04] Speaker A: Without causing any conflict. [00:21:05] Speaker C: No. It's like I've never really even thought about it what to watch or to, like. I've worked with, I work most of my career, I've just worked with underground surfers that chase crazy waves. Not, not really done the pro scene. I mean, they're pros, but they're not like doing the world tour or anything. So. [00:21:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:25] Speaker C: Yeah, you always, you just want to travel with guys that nothing's an issue. Like if you don't get waves that they don't complain, they can find other things to do because that's what surf is like, you know, you could do a trip and just get scunk. Completely skunk. So, you know, like Paul Morgan's, he's Brett Bircher. They're all east coast guys, Justin, all port. They're all pretty, really good to travel with. Funny. And, you know, there's no surf. It doesn't matter. Like, let's go do something else. So it was, you know, you kind of, if you travel with no expectations, you can't get let down. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. The, the vibe and creativity of the crew leads to the better results image wise, rather than everyone being tense and. [00:22:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, they can. Yeah, the surface is the easy part. It's just like when you're not surfing, you just want that, like you said, the good vibes. [00:22:31] Speaker B: Very cool. [00:22:33] Speaker A: And is it Tony, just get off my digital lawn. [00:22:36] Speaker B: Yeah, Tony. Exposing my limited knowledge on ball sports in the comments. [00:22:41] Speaker A: One less coffee for you tomorrow, Grant. I think it's good. It's good to get questions, even if they are at six in the morning. Okay, so we mentioned earlier about your GFX experience. At what point did you, you talked about going from film to digital back to film, and then you jumped into, because you already had lenses, you jumped into Nikon. At what point did you move over to Fujifilm, the best brand in the world? [00:23:10] Speaker C: Yeah, it was, I, it was weird. I got a call from, what happened was I think I got an xt one, like a little point and shoot and I put a pancake on it and I just wanted that to like a back pocket camera because, you know, all the Nikons that I was using were all quite like the d four s. You know, you're traveling with them, it's quite big and just wanted something point and shoot. And I took a shot. When I went out to this slab, it was actually in the front of the jet ski and I just took a couple of shots and the camera, camera electronics here sent that to Fuji. And then I got, I was just about to launch a ski and I got this call. It said, oh, we're launching. But you know how they can't tell you, but it was the XT two back then. We're launching the X T two. Would you like to trial it out and, and do a campaign shooting, surf with it? And I was like, yeah, sure, why not? Like, I mean, I was kind of in the talks with Nikon, but this kind of, like, when you're with Nikon, there's no point talking to them. You're already using Nikon. Like their, their whole theory back then was converting white lenses to black lenses. I mean, it's not science, like, and you can see the point. Like, I was already using Nikon so I don't need to be a Nikon shooter. So I was like, yeah, I'll, I'll give it a go. I did that and, um, just felt the community. I just. And then they said I wanted to do something else and I just jumped, shipped. I saw the opportunity so I jumped then. And I wouldn't say it was, the Nikons were better for sure back then. It was definitely workarounds. I had to work around a lot of things, but I was, I, I just knew no one was using Fuji in the water. Like, not that I knew of it was either can. I mean, I don't even think Sony was out there. It was just Nick on a cannon. There wouldn't be anything else. And they're all on that and they're all sort of fighting for scraps. Whereas I just went. And that's an opportunity I've got, I've got like a personal relationship now and then, and then jump ship then. So I don't know when the XT two come out of. So it was probably about a year, not a year, maybe six months prior to that. And then I just got, I just sold the gear and went with. [00:25:30] Speaker B: It was so obviously because it's a far inferior camera brand, Fuji. There are a lot of, I'm just kidding. There are a lot of workarounds working with these. It's a newer system at that point. And maybe a little bit more difficult in the water than Nikon. Was that part of the fun? Did you enjoy the workaround aspect of it? And sort of, was it a renewed sense of creativity? Because you're trying to use a tool that other people haven't used for that purpose yet, and so you were kind of spearheading this new thing. Did that help, like, reignite some creativity in your work? [00:26:16] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's always good to be out. You know, if you're holding down the, the trigger, it's not really that exciting. I mean, you had to do a lot of workarounds. It's. But it's, they're good to figure out. Like, I'll give you an example. Like when, when the XT two. I mean, yeah, when it came out and I got a housing done for it, you couldn't change the aperture because the apertures on the, on the lens. So you basically just thinking what I want to shoot, if I'm shooting wide, it doesn't matter. I have it at like 7.1 or f eight anyway, and I just, I could do the speed. And that took me back to the film days. We only had one button anyway, so it didn't matter. But then if you're trying to, you want to do creative stuff and you're shooting in the morning and you're doing that, they got a lot more difficult. But I did a, from that xt two, I went to Japan and they did, like, they did a launch there, and I got invited to go over and I was in a meeting with them, and they're, they're unbelievable. Fuji. Like this. You're in a meeting with the who's who of the designers, and they're like, how can you make this better? And I'm like, I'm kind of pretty relaxed with it. I'm like, well, I can just shoot with you. You can. Basically, even if your camera only shoots one a second, just press the button at the right time. Like, it's. I was like, I'd love to be able to change the aperture because I can't. You can't do it on the camera. There's, I don't even know if, you know if Aqua Tech could come up with something to even do that. And, oh, we could, we could. We can change that for you. And I'm like, what do you mean you can change it? And they're like, yeah, we can. We can make it auto or, like, be able to do it on the camera with a dog with a dime how would you even do that? And then it came out. I mean it's not because of me, it's probably other photographers. But it firstly came out I think on the XH one where you could put the lens on basically auto but then tell the camera that you're going to be changing it manually on the, on the camera. [00:28:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah that makes total sense. But yeah, like now that you think about it because it's been done, obviously you're like oh yeah, they would just use the same setting, that auto setting and then obviously then just have to program the camera to accept the input off one of the dials or whatever. But yeah, it's also, it's, isn't it wild that no one had run into that issue so no one potentially maybe some other photographers but hadn't really mentioned it before that point. [00:29:00] Speaker C: They probably didn't need it. Like you can just, if it's not in a housing you don't have to really worry about it. But it's crazy that they could even do that. [00:29:09] Speaker B: I'm going to clip this part of the podcast and put on YouTube titled Russell Ord redesigns fujifilm cameras, something like that. [00:29:17] Speaker C: That's the only thing I can probably claim, I'd say. But yeah, it's, yeah, I just could, just being in with the team and them doing that and then they listen. It feels quite good. [00:29:30] Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah, it's, it's such a cool, like to take that input directly from people using the product. I'm sure other brands probably do it as well. But you would imagine there'd be a lot of levels between photographers and, and engineers. Maybe in some of the bigger, bigger brands. I don't know. [00:29:49] Speaker C: Yeah, because I couldn't really, I can't shoot like every, I do everything manually. Especially in the surf because the surf you could probably get away with a lot of things in the street, you know, having aperture priority or speed priority or whatever it is or something on auto. But in the surf it's just you got the deep, deep blues and then you got the bright, bright light. So it's like shooting in the snow. It's going to tricky camera. So. And yeah, so having that flexibility of doing what I want in the end was great. [00:30:21] Speaker B: So cool. [00:30:22] Speaker A: It's quite an interesting point you raised there, Russell, because you know, for, you know I'm a street photographer and a travel photographer mostly I dabble in other stuff. But you take for granted once you, your camera changing settings become second nature that you can do in your sleep. You take for granted just how easy it is. And I shoot manual like you. I dial in the light and the speed that I want and the aperture, and it changes depending on where I am in the street, whether I'm in a dark alley or out in bright light. But you take for granted having a lot of that freedom maybe taken away from you not only by housing, but also by the fact that you're trying to stay alive while you're floating in the ocean. You know, it hats off to you. It's a remarkable feat of, you know, and you mentioned earlier that you don't consider yourself an artist. You shoot for the. You know, you've always been more of an action photographer, but really, there is a lot to say about the capacity to create your images as art while doing such a potentially dangerous thing. You know, there's a lot to be said. [00:31:37] Speaker C: I feel like I'm doing a lot better now as I feel like I nearly call myself an artist, but at this, yeah, definitely it took a long time because I just. I just felt like I was really good in the water and the camera was just an extension of that. So it's like the ocean's doing it for you, the surf is doing it for you. You're there to capture certain images for a magazine. And the art in the whole thing was just being really good in the water. But now I'm just looking for different things. I have been for years, and I love that type of photography. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Yeah, amazing. Now, GFX Fujifilm recently, a few months ago now released the GFX 100s mk two and the new 500 GF 505.6. You were part of that, that program, weren't you? [00:32:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I was lucky. I've been hanging in there with Fuji because I have made a few changes. So I think it was just like, I love that lens. It's so good. Like, to be able to shoot from. Because basically, prior to that, I had the 250 mil and I put a converter and the GFX is so. And then I'd crop a little bit in because you can, because the files are so good, but having that lens has just opened up a whole new world. So, yeah, I loved, it was good. I mean, and I'm just. And with the new camera, it was like, I would pry, like I've said it in at Fuji, I would never even have order on continuous focus like the GFX, the first ones, I just feel like it was a waste of time. It was quicker for me to further the focus with my finger on single focus than have it on continuous because it would just hit and miss. But, yeah, huge step up through. It's quite impressive how, you know, how where they went with the GFX. It's crazy. Yeah. I mean, it's still. Even if it came out the same, I wouldn't have upgraded because it's still the same file sizes. I don't really care if it's only one or two shots a second, and I can still feather the focus. I shot heaps of surfing on it, but, yeah, it's definitely a lot nicer when it makes it a touch easier, because you've got a lot of things to think about when you're in the water. It's just a different form of photography. [00:34:10] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I think I got set a review copy of the GFX 100, SDE mark two and the 500. And I'm a street photographer, so I took it to the local skate park. I mean, it's nothing like what you were doing with yours, but I found it interesting, the difference in focus performance between the X series and the GFX. There was definitely, you know, and I had the XT 50 at the same time, which is, you know, really fast. [00:34:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:41] Speaker A: And, yeah, it was fascinating shooting with that, that massive lens. You know, like, I was taking. I was having to sort of get up and walk several steps away to get anything, you know, that minimal focus distance. [00:34:56] Speaker C: Yeah. And, I mean, a lot of people have reached. A lot of people have reached out since the camera. And, like, I just asked what they shoot. Like, you know, they like, oh, I'm gonna upgrade. Do you think I should upgrade to this? And I'm pretty honest with them. I'm like, well, what are you shooting? And they're like, I'm shooting architecture. Like, what bother. Like, you don't need to. They're. They're still beautiful files, the same files. And, you know, if you're shooting birds or you shooting wildlife, you know, it's definitely upgrades or things that move. I'd upgrade for sure, but people get. They just sort of fall into the. I'm going to be a better photographer because the cameras better. Like, it doesn't. You still need to swim into the right locations. I don't care if your camera shoots 30 shots a second. It's not going to help you unless you can get into the spot. I'm just talking my form of photography. But it's. [00:35:52] Speaker A: No, I think it's a general. I think it's a good point because, you know, we've all suffered from gas and FoMO in the past. And for those of you listening at home, gas is gear acquisition syndrome and FOMO is fear of missing out. We've all suffered that. Justin is still in his puberty years of gas. [00:36:12] Speaker B: Please. [00:36:13] Speaker A: How many cameras have you got, mate? How many cameras? [00:36:15] Speaker B: Yeah, how many have I not bought is the better question, Greg. And that's a lot. That's right. Hey, I've had this exact conversation with quite a few people about the five reals and the five reals mark two reals. It's almost identical in the sense that the new canon five reals mark two reals is amazing. But if you're shooting landscapes, the original five reals will be as good, if not slightly better. Same with, like, for many of the styles of photography, it's not needed to upgrade at all because the image quality. There's no image quality upgrade, you know, so it's. It's a lot faster in electronic shutter, so you can shoot without getting. You can use the electronic shutter at faster sort of frame rates and get. No, what's it called? [00:37:08] Speaker A: Blackout. [00:37:09] Speaker B: No, no, no. Warping. What's it called? Rolling shutter. You know, so, like, balls and things like that can become distorted. So it handles that a lot better. Autofocus is far improved for sports. Like, I shoot a lot of mountain biking. Massive noticeable difference and quite a few upgrades in the video side of it as well. So if you're shooting hybrid photo video, it's an upgrade. If you're shooting sports, it's an upgrade. If you're shooting landscapes, not needed. If you were shooting portraits, slightly better autofocus. But really for like family portraits and stuff like that, any modern camera is keeping up with it, no problem. Even. Even weddings, it's like, yeah, if you're shooting. Shooting 50 plus weddings a year and these are tools of the trade, why not upgrade? But, you know, if not, the original r five would be just as good. So it's like, it just depends on. You don't need the new camera. And I completely agree with what you're saying, it depends on the application, but most of the time, that sort of automatic urge to upgrade should be squished for a little while, if possible. [00:38:16] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. You want to see a proper upgrade and it's got to, you know, you've got to justify the purchase with what you, what you're shooting. [00:38:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:23] Speaker A: And it's not going to make you a better photographer. [00:38:26] Speaker C: No, not at all. [00:38:27] Speaker A: No. And it's about what you said about, you know, being, you've got to be in the water, you've and it's the same with, I think any genre, and I apply this with my work, is that you've just got to be present. You've got to be there to see the moment. If you're not there, well, you know, the opportunity is missed. And if you're spending all your time worrying about your camera settings or what lens and hunting around in your camera bag, you're missing more light. You're missing more shots and moments. So, you know, be present with what you've got and use it until it's no longer serving you. Well, don't upgrade just because that's the other thing. [00:39:04] Speaker B: Like you say, it's, you know, knowing your camera back the front so that you don't miss shots. If you change your cameras too often, you sort of don't. I mean, they're quite similar these days, each iteration, but still little changes and stuff like that. That's why I used to. It's bugging me now. Canon cameras now don't come with manuals. I used to read every camera I got. I used to read the manual. I don't know if I was the only one, but I would read it like start to finish, because then when something popped up that I hadn't seen before in my head, I'd be like, oh, that was that thing I read about that I didn't understand at the time or whatever, you know, like it's. Yeah, I used to do that every time. [00:39:42] Speaker A: I think, the ultimate camera nerd. [00:39:45] Speaker B: I'm trying. Thanks, Greg. [00:39:46] Speaker A: I've got a new level of respect for you, mate. [00:39:48] Speaker B: I appreciate it. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Well, any step up is good. Let's jump to a couple of comments, one from longtime supporter of the show and past guest Nev Clark. Morning, Nev. Nev's also in Wa and I can't remember what part of Wa. [00:40:01] Speaker B: He's in Albany. [00:40:03] Speaker C: Albany? [00:40:03] Speaker A: Albany, yeah, that's right. Are you familiar with Nevda? [00:40:07] Speaker C: Yeah, I spoke to him a couple of times. Yeah. I don't know him personally, but yeah, we spoke on like social and stuff like that. [00:40:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Lovely Blake. Lovely Blake. If those of you watching along at home, our podcast with Nev is one of our most popular on the channel. Really interesting story, but never said I love my photography and love the water here too, but haven't combined the two. Your work is amazing. Long time admirer. And he wants that 500 mil lens. [00:40:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Won't make you a better photographer, Nev. But yeah, you do. You need it. [00:40:39] Speaker B: You do. [00:40:41] Speaker C: But yeah, it'll give you that length that you need. It's pretty good. So see if, you know, shooting the water or whatever. It's nice. [00:40:48] Speaker A: And we'll just jump to this comment and then we'll bring up some of your work. Russell Digifrog. Does anyone know who Digifrog is? [00:40:56] Speaker B: No. [00:40:56] Speaker A: Who are you? [00:40:57] Speaker B: Digifrog. [00:40:58] Speaker A: Who are you? Where are you? What are you? I had Sas, which is strap acquisition syndrome. Oh, that's. That's right up Justin's alley. Last count, I had 34, but 31. Not used anymore. Ended up settling on the lucky strap. Now to find the ultimate camera bag. Chronic Das is bad. Yep. [00:41:20] Speaker B: I've got bag acquisition syndrome. It's a problem. [00:41:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Got a new one, too, although, appreciate the support. [00:41:28] Speaker B: Digi frog. [00:41:29] Speaker A: Yeah. From Tasmania. Yeah. [00:41:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:36] Speaker A: My partner's from Tassie and we try to go down when we can and it's. I just love it. It's. I think that's. That's going to be my retirement space. Just go down there and work from there one day. [00:41:47] Speaker B: Nice. I'm not good for photography. [00:41:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Now I want to jump to sharing some of your images. I'm going to jump to your Instagram account first and look at some of your work there before we jump to your gallery stuff. [00:42:03] Speaker B: While you're pulling that up, if no one has seen it before, there's a documentary on Russell. It's pretty cool. Yeah, we'll pop it in the show notes. Well, I've got to find where it's available currently. I don't know where it's. [00:42:20] Speaker C: I think it's. It might be on Vimeo now because ABC had it for a while. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:42:27] Speaker C: Producer had it on that Red Bull had it. [00:42:30] Speaker B: I thought so. [00:42:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:31] Speaker B: Searching. Searching in the other day because I've watched it in a few different spots over the years. It's called. It's called one shot and it's. It's about 30 minutes long, I think. And it's great. How long ago was that filmed, Russell? Do you remember? [00:42:44] Speaker C: Poor. Well, I think we started maybe eight years ago. I mean, I wasn't looking at doing a documentary. Darren just. I met Darren on the beach and sort of started chatting to him and he was working up in the mines. He wanted. He was just doing little character pieces. That's what he wanted to get into and he wanted to know what I was doing. I was like, well, I'm just sort of going through a change. I've started swimming down at the right. That's probably the only thing that's worth shooting, maybe. And then it just took off from there. [00:43:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. It's, yeah, super cool documentary. So anyone will put the link when I try and find it and, yeah, set some time aside and watch. It'll inspire you and you'll be like, yeah, I want to do ocean photography. And then you'll watch the full thing and you'll be like, oh, no, I don't. [00:43:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I've kind of retired from that sort of stuff. They're like, I just. I just. I did have a couple of good goals years ago at different places, but. But I just can't afford the injuries anymore. [00:43:43] Speaker A: Like, it's almost catching up. [00:43:45] Speaker C: Not super safe. [00:43:47] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. [00:43:52] Speaker A: Sorry. For those that are on audio podcast, we're just looking through some of Russell's Instagram shots. We will pop his links to his gallery, which we'll look at in a minute, and his Instagram page in the YouTube comments in the description. But these are absolutely stunning horrors. Even after being compressed on Instagram, the quality of the contrast is just absolutely stunning. [00:44:23] Speaker C: Yeah, the Instagram, it just doesn't do it. I mean, having a gallery space and being able to blow them up big and people going right up, they go right up to it and look for detail. That's when you see. See the difference. Most of the time, you're not going to see much difference. People like, I get comments and, oh, you must have done this on that or you must be shooting full. It's all rubbish. Like, you can't. You can't even see it. Like, you can't see it all. [00:44:53] Speaker B: Yeah, everyone. Instagram screen. Yeah, yeah. [00:44:59] Speaker A: A lot of people are working off postage stamp size images, aren't they, on their phones? [00:45:04] Speaker C: Yeah, that's the thing with gear as well. Like, you got to really ask yourself, what is it used for? Like, where is it going? Like, you're shooting weddings and, you know, you can crop and get the detail. Yep. Commercial work gives them. Gives them stuff to do. But if you're shooting for, like, most of the time for social media or whatever, like, Jesus, what do you need? [00:45:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a common theme that comes up on this podcast almost every week. Which is what? Like, what are we actually taking the photos for outside of exactly what you just said? If it's work for a client and that sort of stuff, it's a lot easier to make decisions around gear and stuff like that when you've got requirements and paying clients and what they're using it for. But once it gets outside of that into sort of making work that you're proud of. That's the hard part, is unless you've got a gallery or somewhere to make large prints, it's like, what are we doing with these images? Because social media is. Is certainly not the place to show off your photographic abilities. [00:46:06] Speaker A: Not anymore. I mean, the days of Flickr, when Flickr was. Before Flickr became a porn site, it was. [00:46:14] Speaker B: I'll have to circle back and give it a look. [00:46:20] Speaker A: Yeah, before that went kind of dirty, that was the place. And I really liked it because you could go, I want to look at some amazing astrophotography shot through a telescope and you could find it and, you know, you could see good, good resolution images. I mean, the load times were crap, but you got to see good resolution. But now it's all just flick and roll. Why is it no scroll? Yeah, and you don't get to appreciate. You get a glimpse, but you don't get to appreciate what people have actually gone through to get those shots and all see the quality. [00:46:49] Speaker B: I'm testing out that glass thing that I mentioned on the other show. Have you ever heard of Glass Russell? [00:46:57] Speaker C: No, what is it? [00:46:58] Speaker B: It's kind of like a social media site for photography with much higher quality imagery that you can, you know, you can upload it. A decent quality file. Still not, still obviously gets compressed and stuff. Yeah. And there's a lot more exploration to be done in there. You can look, you know, sort of via different categories and things like that. It's not as algorithmically based. Yeah, but. And it's sort of. There's. There's no ads, zero ads. It's eat. You either can get like a free sort of thing or most people pay a small fee to be part of it so that there's zero ads. But what the hard thing that I'm finding, because I was hoping to go on there to find some inspiration, is photographers like yourself aren't on there. So it's like there's not the amount of work on there from great photographers yet to where I can really sort of curate a feed of inspiration. That's what I was looking for. Like, where can I go where I can see some great work from ten to 20 photographers that I really sort of want to follow and see that work in high quality, but it's sort of not there yet. And I don't know, you know, unless they've got the budget that Facebook and Instagram have, I'm worried it might never get there because without the great photographers on there, it doesn't have that pool. I don't think it's interesting. [00:48:31] Speaker A: Yep. I want to get to talking about displaying work in galleries in just a moment. We'll just cover off a couple more questions. Jason has rejoined us. Hey, where was Jason? In the US or in Canada? [00:48:46] Speaker B: No, I thought he was in Melbourne. [00:48:48] Speaker A: I don't know. [00:48:49] Speaker C: What's that? As you can. [00:48:51] Speaker B: That's what we said last time. Now it's a triumph. [00:48:53] Speaker C: What's a triumph? [00:48:55] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:48:55] Speaker A: Yeah, because we had Jason Lau on who has a harley and he does a lot of, you know, motorbike, motorcycle photography. But they had a good chat. I have strap acquisition syndrome as well. I think I'm up to about ten or eleven. Lucky and a pair of the gloves. [00:49:14] Speaker B: As many as me. Yeah. Well done. [00:49:16] Speaker A: We love you, Digi frog. Tony asked where Digifrog was located. Hobart. Heading to bright for beefop again this year. Hope to meet Justin to personally sign my wrist strap. [00:49:28] Speaker B: I'll be there. [00:49:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:30] Speaker B: Greg will make sure we. [00:49:36] Speaker C: Listened to Matt's show. He's a great speaker. [00:49:38] Speaker B: Good. [00:49:39] Speaker C: I spent a bit of time with him too, because he was on the GFX campaign. He's a great guy. A real good guy. [00:49:47] Speaker A: Yeah. It was an absolute joy to have him on. A couple of weeks ago now we talked about his work and his journey and befop. Justin and I are heading down to befop on the 11th. We're gonna be there for the full weekend. We plan on getting immersed in the festival. [00:50:05] Speaker B: We even got business cards made. I haven't had. I haven't had business cards for nine years. But because of the bright photography festival, this camera. Come on, come on. Canon. And don't worry about it. But yeah, they're fancy. They get gold. They got gold on them. Yeah, Greg's got his own business card. [00:50:21] Speaker A: Yeah, finally. No, I've got my own. Gotta get the wallet. But yeah, we're gonna head down there. We don't forget to. If you're going to bright festival photography and you want to pick up a special edition be fop lucky strap, have you got any to show at the moment? [00:50:42] Speaker B: I do. I'll be back. You guys talk amongst yourselves. [00:50:46] Speaker A: Shameless self promotion here for the brand. Yeah, we will be there. And we are currently offering befop participants a special branded embossed beefop lucky camera strap of your choice and I think also golden ticket. People that have purchased the golden tickets get a special b fop strap with gold embossing. Justin's going to show. Take this comment off the screen so. [00:51:17] Speaker B: I can see if I can get this canon this amazing camera to focus. It really is tracking my eyes and it's nothing. Loving the look at how well it stays on my face. [00:51:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it's great. It's really working out. [00:51:31] Speaker C: There it is. Oh, that's nice. [00:51:33] Speaker B: That's yours, Greg. [00:51:34] Speaker A: Ah. Chose the slim 30 in tan with black embossing. [00:51:40] Speaker B: Oh, it was gonna gold one. That's. No, it's a copper, copper bronzy kind of color for this person. So yeah, we've got, we've done. Yeah, a few so far, but there's more. More to be done. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Yep. So yeah, if you are heading down to be fop, head to the lucky strap. So I have people order the special strap. [00:51:59] Speaker B: They just. You just use the code. Well, hang on. It's a secret code only for what if some people on here aren't going to the festival? Oh, well, they'll end up with a strap with a logo on it. Befop 2024 is the code. And then you will get that logo on your strap and you will get a discount too. [00:52:15] Speaker A: Yep. But if you put the code in the lucky straps, customer service team will be in touch to ask what, you know, what color foil fill you want on your embossing. [00:52:25] Speaker B: Yep. [00:52:26] Speaker A: Which is great. [00:52:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm gonna make myself something weird for the seventies night, Greg. Some sort of weird camera strap. You're gonna wear the strap and some other stuff. Probably not just the strap. [00:52:40] Speaker A: Good. So yes, for those of you that do order the lucky strap, B Fop edition. We'll be bringing them with us to the weekend and they'll be available at BFOP HQ. And hello to Matt. I know that he's been frantic making sure the website doesn't fall apart in preparation for tomorrow's going live at 09:00 a.m. eST. I think Justin and I might even jump on a live, maybe go live. [00:53:11] Speaker B: And try and put in our workshops. [00:53:13] Speaker A: Book in our workshops. [00:53:14] Speaker B: They'll have to try and get you over one year, Russell. You can do it. So it is a very beef up thing to do. If it was like surf photography in a pool or something like that. [00:53:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:25] Speaker C: It's always difficult with the insurance with when you, when you add water. [00:53:29] Speaker B: That's a good point. [00:53:30] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:53:31] Speaker B: That's a very good point. [00:53:31] Speaker A: Could imagine another comment here from Nevda towards you, Russell. I appreciated the advice, made it help massively. I was so torn whether to fully commit to GFX. I'm glad I did. I know it's not all about the camera, but the upgrade has been great and the right is scary. [00:53:49] Speaker C: I need to be on some sort of percentage at Fuji. It'd be nice, wouldn't it? [00:53:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. [00:53:54] Speaker B: That'd be good. [00:53:55] Speaker C: I might lose money though, if, when I, when I give people advice not to get it. [00:54:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:01] Speaker C: Because I've already got one, you know, and stuff like that. Like, we just chatted about the thing, though. [00:54:07] Speaker B: Brands have got to be open to that. They got to be cool with it because as soon as you stop doing stuff like that, people stop trusting your opinion. You know, if you constantly just say, hey, buy the new bestest camera, your opinion becomes sort of worthless then. So I think if brands recognize that, that, you know, honesty from their ambassadors is the best thing they could possibly have. [00:54:29] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I just spoke to a guy the other day and I talked him out of the GFX because he had the, had one and he ended up buying two, two of those new tilt shift lenses. So he still spent a bit of money, but, um. Yeah, so he went, but that's what he shoots, so. [00:54:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, they're masterful. I picked one up in a Ted's camera store in Melbourne and they're just phenomenal piece of engineering like that. You know, you could, you could hammer in nails with them. [00:54:59] Speaker B: What's the tilt shifts? [00:55:00] Speaker A: The tilt shift lenses? Yeah. They're just phenomenal. They're beasts. Another comment here. Sorry to hear about the shoulder, Russ. Have to catch up for a bite when the restaurant near your gallery opens. [00:55:11] Speaker C: Yeah, Parker. Yeah, he, do you know David? Incredible photographer. Yeah, he's got some incredible stories, especially from war torn countries. [00:55:23] Speaker B: I think he bought a camera strap office the other week. [00:55:28] Speaker C: Yes. [00:55:29] Speaker B: And I've hit him up to say, come on the podcast because they. He emailed me. Yeah, he emailed me about something. I was like, hmm. Says I am a Nikon ambassador. That's interesting. So I went to his website and I was like, holy moly, this guy's awesome. So, yeah, right, yeah. [00:55:44] Speaker A: Oh, David, please get in touch and, and yeah, join us on the show. [00:55:50] Speaker C: I've heard him speak a few times. He's a great talker and yeah, his stories are unbelievable. [00:55:56] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll definitely be getting him on. I've got him sitting here in the email, but I need to get back to him because he emailed me nine days ago and haven't replied because I'm terrible sorry, David, responding honestly, I really am. Just let everyone let the world know that now if you email me and I don't respond, just email me again. Sometimes things get hectic. [00:56:15] Speaker A: You'll get to it. We'll get to it. And David finished off with p's stunning images, as always, to russell. Um, tony, tell justin I said that you can have some lucky merch. Tony, we just discount code. [00:56:28] Speaker B: We will have some lucky merch over, if you're lucky. [00:56:31] Speaker A: Yeah, the black with the, uh, the charcoal. Lucky. Yeah, I love it. [00:56:40] Speaker B: If you. If you want a hoodie or a t shirt, russ, let us know. [00:56:44] Speaker C: Black's good, especially on a winery when you're drinking red wine. White. Yeah. [00:56:51] Speaker B: This is like a podcast only jumper. It's lucky it's made it this far that I haven't spilled coffee on it, but, yeah, most of the time it's black. Black on black for me. [00:56:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:01] Speaker A: A little bit more from. From nev. I didn't fully appreciate the g effect until I saw my work on a local billboard. It was for the local leisure and aquatic center. I'll have to go check out glass. Yeah. Please let us know what you think. Yeah, let us know. [00:57:14] Speaker B: Nevda. [00:57:15] Speaker A: And they've finished up with. And that's why I reached out to you directly, Russell. Obviously, I wanted to. Wanted the real oil, not the add oil, so to speak. And it was appreciated. So nice. Speaking of displaying stuff, you currently have a gallery, and it's not just an online gallery, it's an actual proper gallery. We'll get to having a look at it. Some of your images that are online in just a minute. But tell us about what, what the move was like to go from, you know, selling work to magazines to deciding to open your own gallery. Tell us about. Because a lot of photographers, I guess, and I've even thought about doing exhibitions, and I never have done one, mostly because of imposter syndrome. But, you know, a lot of photographers want to display their work in some way. And it goes back to that question of, you know, what are we taking photos for? And you've taken that to the ultimate, I think, the pinnacle of that question of, you've got your own gallery, you're displaying your own work, you're showing it to people at a scale that the work deserves, and people appreciate seeing that detail in properly framed in glass. You know, the best way to see, I think, photography. Tell us about your transition to that. [00:58:36] Speaker C: Well, it was my. It was always my dream, especially when I jumped. That's why I jumped on the GFX bandwagon. Otherwise I wouldn't have done it. To be able to print big, like on sort of on scale, not quite the scale, like but it's. Yeah, that was the dream. And really, the gallery is more. I just. It was a glorified office at the start of, like, it's. At the time the Edwards would. I'm on Edwards Winery. They were doing a new build, and they had this old shed, and Christo, the guy that runs the vineyard, the winemaker, was. I surf with him. He's like, oh, would you want to? They were trying to convert this old shed into something. He said, do you want to do a gallery? And I was like, no, I don't want to do a gallery. Like, I just, like, I could. It wasn't going to. For me, it wasn't going to work. And then just after speaking to him, and then at the time, I was living on, like, a bush block in a pretty small house in Margs, and we needed an office, so they said, yeah, we'll build you a couple of offices inside the gallery. And so we just. We went for it, and I'm glad we did in the end. It is nice seeing you work printed on scale, because other than that, you know, you do the usual thing. People have it in cafes or restaurants. It's. It's nothing. It just gets damaged. Like, it's, you know, you might sell one in a blue moon, and it's. [01:00:04] Speaker A: An afterthought for people there, isn't it? [01:00:06] Speaker C: It is, yeah. But. So the glorified office has now turned into a gallery, which is good. And, you know, I've still got my office here, which is nice. So you can leave work. I mean, you should leave work at work and don't bring it home. But, I mean, we still do a bit of work at home. And then. Yeah, we just sort of. Me and my wife share being in here. She probably works more than I do in here, but, yeah, we're just trying to make it work where you can employ someone else. And we've just done a different. Renamed it to flow gallery. So if you click on the gallery bit on that portfolio, that's just my website, because I do. I just don't really like making it about myself. We got convinced to, um, put it under my name, but I do. I want to have exhibitions for crew. I want to make it a real, uh, place where, you know, people can come and see different types of work as well. Like, it's definitely. It's definitely, uh, ocean heavy because it's all my photography at the moment. But we've got a restaurant getting built, and. [01:01:14] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Yeah, your pottery is wonderful. [01:01:20] Speaker C: It would have been good. Yeah. So we've got other artists in, and it's all. It's just beautiful. So you can see that's the shed, basically, at the back there. That's good. So it's a beautiful. It is a beautiful place, and it's a beautiful property. So, I mean, if it doesn't work, I can just go to the restaurant and clean dishes. [01:01:39] Speaker A: So it's always good to have a backup. It's always good to have a backup in this gig. [01:01:46] Speaker B: When it comes to your business. Now, Russell, how does it work in terms of your. [01:01:55] Speaker C: How do we survive? [01:01:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, making a living, roughly, what's the sort of the breakdown in terms of you're still doing commercial work? How much of that do you do? How much do you sell? A lot of work through the gallery? Yeah. How does it all come together to. To support your life, I guess. [01:02:14] Speaker C: Well, when I left the fire brigade, I'm now. I was never going to at that time, I was. I was probably still shooting a few weddings, quite a few. So I could easily substitute that income. And then I'm not really doing that anymore either. So it's just, I didn't leave the fire brigade to make 150 grand or whatever. I was on at the fire brigade with overtime in photography. I left for other reasons, but. And I've just sort of evolved. I was doing a lot of commercial work, and now I've got a foundation called Desert Light foundation. So I'm in, like, a number of schools where I'm working with kids that would never have that opportunity to even pick up a camera. So that's the main focus, and that's what I'd love to do. Like, it's. It's a. I fell into it. I wasn't normally, I'll evolve. I'll see something happening. Like, the mags are starting to thin back, and I'll start transitioning early because you need to do it in photography or you're going to die a pretty quick death. And I was up north working for a friend called Quinn Beadman. He's got a foundation. What was, back then it was called Bundaroo, and now it's called grassroots music. So he had a beautiful life in Margaret Rivera. It's pretty crazy life here. And then moved his whole family up north to teach him one school to bring the kids in to basically entice the kids to come to school, like play guitar, beat the drums, play the didgeridoo, all that sort of stuff. And it was amazing. So he, out of the blue, I get this call from him this is, I'm saying probably about ten or eleven years ago now. Can you come up and document what we're doing? I was probably the only photographer you knew, really. I just got lucky and so I flew up and what happened was I end up like you always. I call them stragglers. You'll get one kid that doesn't want to play and he was just sitting in the corner. So I'm like, do you want to help me take photos? And I give him a camera. I kind of force him into it, really. And now that they're part of the community of the kids, even though they can't play music and so that's why they're sitting out or they're not good on the basketball court. And I end up watching the kid take shots and he was getting shots I couldn't do like it because the kids started being kids around him. Like with me, I'm, you know, a grown adult with a big camera and they're sort of like a little bit skeptical on what to do. You give the kid to one of them, the camera to one of the mates and all of a sudden they're just being kids again. They're just. He was getting all these great shots and I was just teaching him a bit of photography on the side and this went on for quite a number of years and he grew quite, he ended up being quite a few schools and I was doing all his content and, and loving it. And then I think about would have been two or three years ago. I said to him, look, have you ever thought about introducing the arts or photography into the program? Because I'm really enjoying doing this and I could do this like full time. And he's like, I'll think about it. And then him and his wife sort of just came back and said, look, why don't you do your own foundation? We'll give you a hand to get it up and running, still be in the schools that he's in. And without them I wouldn't be where we are today. And so now we're in four or five schools and yeah, one of the schools last week had an exhibition. They all saw their work in print for the first time. [01:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:59] Speaker C: And it was amazing. These kids are eleven and so this group had for a year and yeah, the work was, it's just amazing to see. It just brings joy to them. And then it was funny because we went there for the opening, obviously to the school and they had one really, they had two big prints, one on display, four, five smaller ones, and then had another big print. They were doing silent auctions and they're trying to bring in money to the school to, you know, do another, like a content room or a computer room, whatever it is for. And I get there and most of the kids came up to me and said, God, I hope no one bids on my work. I'm taking this home. I'm taking this home. I said, look, we're trying to raise money for the school here. And yeah, it was good for the kids, too. So we try. It's definitely evolved. And my wife does an amazing job. She does all the backhand. She comes to all the schools with us, so we get to work as a team. I mean, she's not like a photographer, but basically you're giving the kids a camera. You start with autofocus or even turning it on and off, just put it on auto and making it fun, like having a game, how to get this flower into focus. That's it. And then. [01:07:19] Speaker A: So is it, is that what it involves your hands on, on site at the school, you show up with a bunch of cameras. [01:07:25] Speaker C: Yep. [01:07:26] Speaker A: Gear and. [01:07:27] Speaker C: Yeah, the whole case of gear. We're trying to leave cameras at the school now because I'm there, you know, there all the time. So it's, so they've got cameras to, because they get to a level where they can shoot, you know, the kids portraits or like for graduation or they go to an event or they go on an excursion. They can. That's where you want to get these kids to a level to shoot. And, you know, they're creating their, their client is the school, so they're creating content for the school's social media or whatever. So it's pretty good and it's pretty raw. Like, I am pretty raw with it and it's just, it's just still evolving. We've only just started at a school where you're with young adults now, like 1617 year olds, so it's a different challenge again, like, you know, they're going to get bored with the, the autofocus real quick. And so I'm learning, I'm learning on the go to. Like, it was good listening to Matt, you know, because he's running workshops and, you know, otherwise I just have like a, this is a camera set to manual. Like it's, it's not like that. It's like, you know, here's the camera. Let's just go and have fun. Have what? Like we play this game where right at the start we go on the basketball court and we're not allowed to look at what everyone else is doing. And we compare shots and they, right at the start, they all walk up to the free throw line and they take a shot of the hoop. And I always do the same thing. I go under, I lie on the ground, I shoot up, and I'm like. And then they start thinking about how they're going to do things and, and then you'll get the occasional, you know, kid that will just blow your mind. Like, I didn't even think of that. That's good. Like, he's already thinking it. You know, even to shoot the camera in portrait mode, like, they don't even some, they'll never even think about. You'll get one kid that'll go and shoot through, like, a hole in the bush and shoot portrait mode just instantly. Like, he's already got. He or she's got a good eye. [01:09:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:09:36] Speaker C: So it's, it's super rewarding. I'm learning a lot of the kids of different cultures, you know, I'm learning a little bit of language as well, so it's. But it's. For every kid, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. [01:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And what was the name of the foundation again? [01:09:52] Speaker C: Desert Light Foundation. I might have it on my website where it'll go. And the desert light is just because that's where we basically come up with the idea. I was up in the desert with Queen and. Yeah, you know, desert light, like, it doesn't, it's just beautiful light. It's all about the light, so it's. Yeah, it's really good. [01:10:17] Speaker A: We'll pop that in the show notes for people to have a look at the. [01:10:20] Speaker C: Yeah, it's pretty, pretty lucky. I never saw myself doing this. Like, it's. Yeah, you just think the commercial work and it's so nice not having to sort of fight for work either. Yeah, I just get up, go to the school, work with the kids. They put it like, they can put your own life into perspective. You're always learning something and then come home and they get a lot of joy out of it. So, yeah, after they don't know who you are, like, they don't have a clue. Like, I was at one school for quite a while and even the teacher, like, went, geez, I didn't realize you shoot that sort of stuff. I've been going there for three years. [01:11:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:11:02] Speaker C: About me. It's about them. [01:11:03] Speaker A: It's about the kids. [01:11:04] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. You might change one kId's life. Like, some of these kids, if you like, we're talking about the shoulder injury before you just. That's not hardship. Like. Yeah, it's tough. It's a tough start to life for some. [01:11:25] Speaker A: Yeah. No, I'm sure it's making worlds of difference. Especially given that they're all shooting with Fujifilm cameras. Yeah, that was, that was a cheap trip. [01:11:35] Speaker C: I will, I will give Fuji a big shout out for. They have been looking after us for, for that sort of stuff. It's been really good. [01:11:43] Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. [01:11:44] Speaker C: And they don't want you got to be careful. Like, you, you're working with kids you don't want to be exploiting in there at any way. Like just being given the gear or certain amount of gear per year without anything in return is quite crazy for a brand. Normally there's some sort of exchange or can we get a shot of the kids using this gear? No. [01:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:10] Speaker C: Best price without the expectations and, and working closely, Fuji with that has been, been awesome. Obviously we need to promote it in some sort of way. But it's, it's so good. Just like give us the cameras. Whatever comes from it. Comes from it. [01:12:28] Speaker A: Yep. That's wonderful. Very, very cool. So you've got the gallery. You're about to open a restaurant. Is that, um, is that part of the winery slash gallery or is that your undertaking? [01:12:46] Speaker C: No way. That's, you know, I'm a photographer, not a drug dealer. This thing's crazy. It's huge. Like now I'm in the shed and that I'm in my space but we all sort of work together. Like, I'll shoot a bit of brand work for the winery. The, the owners of the winery. Just amazing. And so it's theirs, you know, it's their property. They're doing the restaurant and they've got the cellar door and stuff like that. And I'm just sort of tagalong. But it's just nice because, you know, there's a lot of wineries here. Margaret's a difference when you can come to a winery and then there's a gallery with it as well. So there's a difference there. Now with the restaurant, it should be good. [01:13:29] Speaker B: So. [01:13:29] Speaker C: So hopefully I just, like I said, I might be out there washing dishes for a free feed. [01:13:34] Speaker A: I was going to say, I mean, why would you go home? You've got a winery, you got your office, a gallery. You just need a cotton. You're good. [01:13:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. You can easily do that. Here's plenty of room. [01:13:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:45] Speaker B: Well, if I remember correctly, for a period of time Russell, you lived in a rooftop tent while traveling around NZ NZ? [01:13:57] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we had a double rooftop tent. I had me, my wife and daughter in one and my son sleeping, the other one on his own. Like, she was pretty cozy. Pretty cold at times, too. [01:14:10] Speaker B: You should have seen this setup, Greg. It was wild. Yeah. Two rooftop tents on top of it. What sort of vehicle was it? [01:14:15] Speaker C: Hilux. [01:14:16] Speaker B: Hilux, yeah, yeah, it was. [01:14:18] Speaker C: It was. Yeah, it was. It was a. Like, we meant to. That was. It's a long story, but we were going to New Zealand and we're meant to get on a boat and it didn't happen, so we just went, okay, let's just go around New Zealand and see if we can. I sold up everything here. Like, gave. I was always in a pretty good space here. Like, shooting a lot of weddings. Had a really good business. I was probably. Back then, I was still in the fire brigade. Double income. I probably wasn't being the best dad because I was always working, but I. Yeah, sold up everything and it didn't turn out, but. So we just went around New Zealand, rooftop tent. We got a lot. We got a couple of gigs with camper vans, but that was like going first class. It was so nice. We just stop and sleep without having to set up. And this was all before it became, you know, people were still doing it, but it wasn't like Covid times. Every man, his dog ended up becoming some sort of. These travelers that had to document what they did. We didn't document, we just work. I was just working where I could. Trying to make a. Make a living from photography. It was good. [01:15:29] Speaker A: Digital nomads. [01:15:31] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:15:32] Speaker A: Follow, like and subscribe. [01:15:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Influencers now. [01:15:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Traveling with your kids, I think that's especially in that sort of scenario. There's so much about life and the world that. That they learned from those experiences as well. [01:15:52] Speaker C: Oh, it was amazing. Like, we homeschooled. We left one son here because he was doing year twelve. We left him with friends, so he did that and we had the other two. So it was a challenge, for sure. One way to go. [01:16:05] Speaker B: How long? [01:16:07] Speaker C: Oh, over a year. Um, year and a half maybe. It wasn't all like in the. The rooftop tent thing. Like, it was a mixed bag of everything. Because I was real. I really wanted to make it work because my wife's from New Zealand. So, um, yeah, I wanted to make it. And I'm pretty stubborn. I should have after three or four months, like, yeah, this is not going to work. But I think everything can work and. Yeah, just sort of survive for a while. You get good at, as a photographer on how to make something out of nothing, though. [01:16:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:16:47] Speaker C: It's a good challenge because, you know, you're a nobody. No one knows you. You haven't got your usual clients, you've got nothing. You're starting like, you're starting fresh. [01:16:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's sink or swim, definitely. Quite. [01:17:02] Speaker C: And there's no income coming in. Nothing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:17:07] Speaker B: Wow. And over a year, that's. That's impressive. And then. And then you would have come back and sort of then had to restart business. [01:17:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:16] Speaker B: In Walmart. Yeah. From the beginning, almost. [01:17:20] Speaker C: Yeah. No fire brigade. No. Anything, like, had to. Obviously it was a bit easy coming back here, but like, you know what weddings is like. You get booked a year in advance or so. You've got no income with that. But what I learned on the road was I can always make money for. I know how to make money well, know how to get by and, yeah, I could do it now. It's. But people, like, it's all about the people, you know, and personal relationships for me, not like, how good you are on social media. [01:17:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:58] Speaker C: Like, photography is a service. So this is what I learned in New Zealand. You've got a. It's a service. So you're competing with everyone else that provides a service. How do I change that? So then I just made a product. That's the end result, photography. And that might be like, I'll give you an example. Like, I'd walk into a brewery, I'd look at their website and I know I could shoot. It was average. Like, you don't look at a winery website and it's already amazing. You're probably not going to change their mind. So you look at where you're going and you go in and say, look, I want to do a story on the brewer and that's it. I'm working for this magazine, you know, some online magazine doesn't even matter. And then I would create a product, I would get personal with them. Like I'm always talking about them. Communications key. And then after an hour shoot, you formed a relationship. Well, hopefully you have and they might get you back in, but you've also formulated a product. Now you've got shots. So if I'm. If they're comparing my work with yours, Justin, you're. You've made a service. But now they've already seen the finished product from me and then I would sell them a business package, then they would end up being the client. So I end up getting all these clients by just dropping in. It's. It's. It was amazing. Like, and I just figured out. And it's a skill, too. Like, it's a different skill. [01:19:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So is that. There's a lot of talk at the moment about. From any. Every angle about, you know, photography being dead or not being able to make money in 2024. Every second YouTube video at the moment seems to be something like that, that I'm seeing from photographers some. That famous street photographer. There's an article, Pop, you know, who's the street photographer? Greg, that gets up in people's faces super famous, and he takes photos with the flash and that New York. You know the one? [01:20:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:05] Speaker B: He's in a couple of articles at the moment because he was in an interview the other day, and he said he'll be broke by the end of the year because there's no money in photography anymore or whatever. [01:20:14] Speaker C: And money in what he's doing. [01:20:18] Speaker B: That was the first thing I thought. But he's like a famous magnum photographer or whatever, so I didn't want to disrespect him too much. But that was my first thought, was just because people don't see value in what he's doing or whatever, or maybe he needs a lot more money than travel or whatever he's trying to do. [01:20:39] Speaker A: You don't get into street photography for money. [01:20:41] Speaker B: No, that's true. That's true. But what are your thoughts? [01:20:46] Speaker A: So you come to your life from my son's bedroom. Glamorous. [01:20:50] Speaker B: Exactly. What are your thoughts, Russell, on? You just said you feel like you could probably get plopped anywhere in the world, and you'd figure out a way to use your camera to make a living. You know, maybe not. Maybe not be rich and famous, but to. To at least make a living with your camera. What would your advice be to people today that are thinking about photography as a career, whether it's progressing from a side hustle into a full time or something like that? Can it still be done? [01:21:19] Speaker C: Well, I think it can be done. You've got to have some sort of, like. You're talking about the street photographer. What was his clients before? Like, how did he make money prior to, like, are you taking shots of these people and they're buying prints, or are you shooting for a magazine? You've got to see where it's all going. Like, I mean, most of my income at the start was, I'd say 50% of it was magazines. But then the magazines start dying. Do you just die? With it or do you evolve into something else? Like, I would love just to be shooting, surfing for magazines. That would be great. But it's not, it evolves so quickly and I think, I think personal relationships are so, is still key somehow, you know, working on that. Like you, I mean, we did a street walk the other day in one of the schools and all I was, I was talking to the kids were, you know, because they probably communicate a lot on social. But what about if you want to walk straight into a cafe and talk to the business owner? That's totally different skill level. Like, you don't send them a DM. What if you want to start getting shot? So I'm still big on the personal relationship side and you, I mean, you've got AI coming in. They still need, everyone needs content as a brand, but, yeah, more content required now. Why? I mean, there's a lot of content creators, but it's, it's a, it's a tough one. [01:22:53] Speaker A: It's a muddy, it's a muddy field now. [01:22:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Like, I'm always worried about AI and I'm like, well, it doesn't really affect AI, doesn't affect my relationship at the schools. Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm lucky to be in that, but that could end, that could end this time next year, could be all over. Who knows? Then I've got to evolve again. [01:23:18] Speaker B: Yeah, but you're, but that doesn't scare you because, you know, you could, you've done it enough times now that, you know, you could evolve again. Is that, is that sort of what you say? Yeah, that, yeah, that's that. You're not sitting there going, oh, well, if this ends, I'm, it's over. I'll just go and get a job or something. You would just go, okay, well, what, what's the next thing I'm going to do? [01:23:37] Speaker C: Well, look at those people on YouTube. Like, that's time wasting. I'm getting on YouTube to say my life's over because I can't shoot what I'm doing. We'll move on. Like the world's moving. You got it. You have to evolve. I mean, look, 100 years people shooting film and then it went to digital and it's just gone next crazy. Yeah, it is a tough situation because, like, I just, if I had changed anything, I would nearly still be in the fire brigade and still getting paid and shooting photography as a side hustle if I was money. But I left the fire brigade because I found out how quick life can end. Like, life ends in the blink of an eye. Like, if you don't think it does, it does. Like, people's lives change within just one accident. So if you're, if you want to do something with your life, go and do it and find, figure out how to do it. Get off YouTube and stop complaining about how I'm going to make money or whatever it is. My life's over. How are you making money, prior? There's so many different ways. And don't be scared to have a second job and still be a photographer. Just call your other job your second job and it's supporting your photography. But I do say to people that are getting into it, like, Beverly, be smart about it. Like, what happened with the industry, I felt was it was an influx of so many crew shooting for free. That was the tough part, because then you're competing against people that are creating a level that businesses expect to pay for. Like, even you could be a brand. You're going to employ me for a certain commercial rate, or are you going to get for young photographers to shoot the same thing for nothing? Because you're going to give them a shout out on social media and that creates the standard. I mean, a blind squirrel will find an acorn. So that's part of it. That's saying out of one of that, out of the docker, I just love that saying, squeeze it in. [01:25:51] Speaker B: But, I mean, that's a really good point. And I think the, the problem that too many people maybe fall into, and it's hard not to, we're all human, but it's trying to fight against that and saying, oh, these young photographers shouldn't be doing this stuff for free or whatever, but, you know, you put yourself back in the, you know, in the position of a 19 year old kid who's got a camera and a little bit of talent, who wants to travel to the best surf breaks in the world, why wouldn't he do it for free? You know, like, it's, it's, it's really hard to stand there and say, oh, you shouldn't do that. When, when he's going, why not? I wanted, you know, like, and so rather than fighting against it, like you say, just move on, move forward, find a way. Like, figure it out. Don't, don't just sit there and say, oh, this isn't fair. Yeah. See where it's going. [01:26:37] Speaker C: Yeah. I remember when I was shooting a lot of surf. There's, I mean, I won't drop names. There's a certain photographer that was shooting on the, I mean, this is just like hearsay went to all the brands. He was going to these spots anyway because he's chasing the circuit. You know, the WSL went to all the brands and said, I will work for this price for you guys. I'm going to him anyway. And the price was like, reduced by 50, 60, 70%. But he got all the brands right and he was there anyway, so it wasn't like he went to. He was. That's what he was losing. He was actually gaining. If you added it up, he would have made huge money. But what it did, it put a whole heap of photographers out because they were working for one brand at 100, 200 grand a year. And here's old mate that's come in. Now, do you get angry with that guy or do you like, holy shit, that guy smart. Yeah, that's what I did. I was like, christ, that guy that, like, I was working for brand, I just lost it to him. Yeah, you just smarted me like, yeah, yeah, so it is, it is a tough one, so. But it's, you know, people losing, you just gotta. You just gotta evolve with how it goes. [01:28:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's. It's the best outlook to have because otherwise the other outlook is. Is letting the world dictate what happens to you and, you know, then you're. You're completely out of control of how you want to move forward and you're just sort of going, oh, well, this isn't fair. And it happens. I love. Yeah, your perspective is fantastic. Well, he outsmarted me. Damn it. Now what? [01:28:27] Speaker C: You know, it either forces you into something else or forces you into thinking a different way. Yeah. Or, yeah, you can take it, or, like I said, or you can get on YouTube and say, oh, my life's overdem. Yeah, there's this. So, yeah, there's so many different ways. Like, my son, he. He does video work and he's pretty good. And he's been doing that since he was like 13. That's all he ever wanted to do. [01:28:57] Speaker B: He made a little bit intent for us when you were using the straps with the GFX system. I think if that's. [01:29:04] Speaker C: Yeah, probably he would have. [01:29:05] Speaker B: Yeah, he made a video. I'm pretty sure it was great. [01:29:09] Speaker C: So I'm trying to get on his bandwagon. He's making more money than all this. He. At 18, he asked. Or just when he was in high school, he was just one of the kids that knew what he wanted to do. Should I go to school? Should I do this? Should I do that? I'm like, just go up there, up to perth, see if that works for you. And he goes to an open day and he basically, he felt like he wasn't going to learn anything in the first two years because he'd been doing it so much. And, you know, it's always evolving. And I'm like, why don't you go up there and just hold such and such as bags or reach out to people, see what you don't want to step on their toes? And then he did that, and all of a sudden he's getting paid to hold bags, and now he's got his own clients and he's doing well out of it. And now we're thinking about teaming up as well. And with the oldest son does marketing, it could be good. And I think, I love to shoot video, I just don't want to edit anything. Yeah, that's time consuming and it's another skill, whereas he's got that skill. So you could film and just bump it to him. Like, I got a couple of commercial jobs from him last year. Normally it was the other way around. Now I'm getting, yeah, my dad can shoot photos. [01:30:28] Speaker A: He's got a camera. [01:30:29] Speaker B: It's pretty, pretty funny. That's awesome. [01:30:32] Speaker C: I'm not really, if I can get two, you know, really good commercial jobs a year, that'll be great. But it's got it. I can't put the kids out too, because, you know, you don't want to book in a year's worth of school and stuff like that and not turn up. You know, there's enough disappointment in their life without me saying I'm going to do something and not showing up. Yeah, some, yeah. So if I can get. Just get on his coattails, I should be fine. [01:31:00] Speaker A: So. [01:31:00] Speaker B: Good. My dad can shoot photos. [01:31:05] Speaker C: Hilarious. Because, you know, video, that's one thing I wish I'd shot more of. I've been saying for ten years, I'm gonna do it. And I do do it a little bit. Like, he employs me to shoot water and stuff like that because he can't swim. Not, not like me anyway. And it's good, but, yeah, it's good. It's good to see, you know, he's, he needs to know how to evolve. Otherwise, what's he going to work for? Man, you're weddings, aren't you? Because you, you still need to be there. You still need to shoot those moments. [01:31:42] Speaker B: Is. [01:31:43] Speaker C: Can you be where that, where can it go wrong for you? [01:31:48] Speaker B: Well, I'm not doing weddings much anymore, but my, like, my business partner, Jim, who's the one with the broken leg in the weddings. He's still, which I think you met Jim back years ago when we had a beer. He was there. [01:32:01] Speaker C: Oh, is that in Brisbane? [01:32:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep, yep. [01:32:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:04] Speaker B: Okay. So he's still shooting weddings a lot, and I've said that to him as well. I'm like, this can't really go anywhere. Obviously, things can change in the wedding industry. People might spend more or less money, depending on how much they value photography. And more and more people might come into the industry as cameras get so good that you can just wang it on eye autofocus wide open on a 50 mil 1.2. And, you know, everything is in focus and looks good. And the cameras are so amazing. Now what we used to do eight years ago, which we thought was really clever, now you don't, like, you can just. It's just happens, like, we used to shoot everything wide open and we're like, oh, we got some in focus. This is awesome. Now it's just. Now just everything's in focus. But AI can't replace it. You know, AI cannot replace a wedding photography. I mean, there's AI headshots and stuff now that people are saying are great. Even those look a bit weird. But no one's gonna want a fake wedding photo. And if they do, that's a different world. That is in a world I probably want to play. And maybe that will be a thing like AI wedding photos for people that would rather it look perfect in their mind than real. But there's always going to be people that want real. So I don't think that's really a risk on that side of things. But that being said, you know, Jim's recently got into boudoir photography as a second sort of style. It was something he was very interested in as well. It wasn't like, purely a business, hey, this will make extra money kind of thing, but, you know, I think growing a second arm of a business is always a smart idea just to experiment slightly, diversify. So you're not just everything's in one industry basket, like weddings or whatever. Yeah, I don't know, it's. [01:34:09] Speaker C: But you're. You're as, you know, like with the wedding photo. Because I've done a lot as well, mostly works coming. Because of your relationships? A hundred all the time. Like, you'll get the occasional one, but when you're in the mode, you shoot a wedding, you're getting two more from it, from the bridesmaids. People that are there and they're not they're actually not getting you because you're a good photographer. It's because of your personal relativity. How many times you're at a wedding and they're like, oh, have you got a card? Your photos are fantastic. Well, they haven't even seen them. It's just how you are around the people, and all of a sudden you're getting more work and you're in the flow and it's, it's so good, and it's just how you are with, if you're a dick. It's exactly like this. They're gonna, they're gonna see the photographer and go, Jesus Christ, what a pain in the ass this guy is. [01:35:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:05] Speaker C: And he won't get much. He won't be able to get employed. [01:35:07] Speaker B: We, that's all we ever did. Obviously, we've made sure our photos were as good as what we could do, but we, we were friendly. We worked our ass off on the day. Like, we made sure we were like, you never stand around on your phone or anything like that. You're like, you're working. And we would do anything if they need us to take rubbish out or carry eskys, carry chairs, anything. We would just do anything. Give someone a ride somewhere. Like, it didn't matter what it was like. Yeah, we're a photographer, but, and we wanted to make sure nothing got in the way of the photos, but other than that, it wouldn't matter if they said, oh, we need you to mow the lawns before the ceremony. We're like, oh, yeah, okay. We should be able to fit that. Like, we got time. Yes. Sweet. Where's the mower? [01:35:51] Speaker C: You know, like, that's why the photos are so special to them, because of their personal relationships. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so good. [01:36:00] Speaker B: The, the parents come up to you exactly like you say, at the end of the night, and the parents of the bride or the groom would be like, oh, wow, you've done such an amazing job. You guys are great photographers. And we'd be like, yeah, we might have taken no photos. You don't even know. Like, you've got no idea if we've taken photos or not, but you're already telling us we did a great job and that's, that's how the business got built, for sure. Yeah, I think, yeah. There's still plenty of opportunity for people to do that kind of work and build a business around it. AI is not going to steal that. [01:36:35] Speaker C: What about you, Greg? How? With the street photography work? [01:36:40] Speaker A: Yep. You see it well, AI is definitely not going to steal it. [01:36:45] Speaker C: No. [01:36:47] Speaker A: Although I will say this about AI, I'm concerned about it, but I think it'll be a phase. I don't think it will last. There'll always be a market for it and there'll always be people who prefer it, but I think it will be another one of those phases that threatened our industry. Like when smartphones came in, everyone thought, oh, well, photography's dead. Everyone's got a camera, you know, and while smartphone photography can be amazing, it's not the same, and it never will be. But I think the thing, the challenge that I see with AI, and I think I talked last week with the lads on the podcast about. I was asked to review a piece of software that basically all you do is you take a selfie with your smartphone, you drop the. The image file onto your computer, and you can put yourself in any scenario you want. You can make yourself glamorous, you can make yourself, you know, and you can have yourself posing with AI girlfriend. You can, you know, I didn't do it. [01:37:52] Speaker B: I was gonna say, sasha, if you're. [01:37:53] Speaker A: Watching, it never happened. [01:37:55] Speaker B: Does it blur out nudity or can you go, can you. [01:37:58] Speaker A: No, no. You can put yourself in lingerie like it was. It's the full gamut. You could. You could create boudoir shots, you could have naughty Santa shots. You could have, like it was. It was. And it. My concern with AI photography. I'll get to the street stuff in a minute. But, you know, we're seeing examples of it, especially in the american political scene, which I don't really want to get into. But, you know, there's been reports of it here in Australia of kids using it in schools to put teachers and predominantly female classmates in compromising images. There's a whole bunch of work that needs to be done around. How do we manage this? How do we certify that it's not real? But I think the horse has already bolted. The government, as always, is very slow to act on this sort of stuff because they don't see it as a threat. But until it starts knocking on their door, they're not going to do a lot about it. But, you know, there has been examples of that happening, you know, and it's serious stuff. And what's that? Revenge porn. People are using the video, AI, you know, it's. There's a lot of disturbing factors to it, but I think it's a phase and it will pass. And I know that some camera brands are trying to work on, and Fuji is one of the leaders in this, Justin, not Cannon. [01:39:17] Speaker B: Along with Laika. Along with Laika. [01:39:18] Speaker A: Along with Laika in, you know, creating the certification programs around authenticating photos as being real shot with the camera and the lens by a human, which I think is a step in the right direction. You know, for me, street photography, it doesn't. I never took it up for money. It was therapy for me to overcome grief and loss and get back into the world and. But I needed, you know, I wanted to support my photography. I did have gas and FOMo for a very long time, and I wanted to support my photography, my art, and my passion. And I, you know, and so I did have to diversify. I started doing friends for weddings, and then I got asked to do other people's events and parties and kids parties, and, you know, but I kept it very low key. And I think I didn't go full, you know, Greg, the wedding photographer, because it didn't suit me. I didn't want to become that, that person. But a lot of it was through relationship, you know, a lot of those. Every job that I did that was a paid gig was through someone I know or someone that, you know, a friend of a friend of a friend. And so it would be more about, for me, the photography experiences that I, when I shot those paid gigs, it was about I was involved in the whole experience. You know, I was there from when they were setting up and, you know, introducing myself to people and people saying, oh, so are you a friend of the bride or the groom? So actually, I'm the photographer, you know, and I do know the bride, and I've just met the groom today. And, you know, so I had to diversify to earn some money to fund my gas, and then that's when writing sort of came into it. So after my first trip to Japan, where I predominantly shot street, because it's, you know, it's such an incredible place to shoot street photography. And I started writing about my experiences, and that's when Shotkit picked me up. When Mark, who's actually joining us next week on the show, that's when Shotkit reached out and said, we'd like you writing. Are you, you know, you keen on doing a couple of articles? Because I'm mostly writing about Fujifilm gear at the time. And like you, you know, I was starting out with x t one s and x t two s, and, yeah, that sort of thing. And, and so that became an extension of my creative side, was to write about my processes and my experiences and the outcomes. And it wasn't always about the actual image itself, it was more about the journey to when I took that shot and even the process afterwards of how I turned that shot into something that I was proud of, you know, and so it's, you know, for me now, I'm now writing for Justin, obviously, for lucky straps, part of the team there, which I'm eternally grateful for. And I still write for Shotkit and, and it's enough to sustain me. You know, I've got a sugar mummy of a partner, so that's always helpful. But I've got a really nice balance between, you know, doing the work stuff, the writing, doing the odd, mostly free, but sometimes pay gig for people and writing content about photography. I just get to talk about the thing I love the most. [01:42:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:42:40] Speaker A: So, yeah, I think you're right. I think unless you're prepared to commit wholeheartedly and, you know, and be prepared to evolve with the change in the environment and in the industry, you've got to be able to diversify, I think having more than one stream. In one of Nev's comments, he talked about how he still works his day job three days a week, but he does his photography the rest of the time and he calls himself a photographer and he has a day job that supports him in his pursuit of chasing the light. And I think that's a really good attitude to have. Like you said, russell, you know, even if you do have to work two jobs, you know, call you, still call yourself a photographer, still have that mindset, still pursue that. [01:43:27] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like, it's how you look at it, isn't it? It's like, are you a professional? Was I a professional photographer when I was in the fire brigade? I'd still say I was a professional photographer. [01:43:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:43:40] Speaker C: And people go, well, you're in your professional fireman as well. Yeah, but it's how you, it, it's not what you do full time. Like, I know professional photographers that shouldn't be calling themselves professional and they're full time. Like, that's a different word. Like, I feel. Yeah, professional photography is how you act and, you know, that kind of thing. Instead of, yes, I'm a full time photographer now, but I still call myself professional just the way I am with photography. Yeah, but, yeah, I was a professional firefighter as well at the same time. Drama. [01:44:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I think a weird one. Yeah. I think you can only call yourself a professional photographer once other people start calling you that. I don't think it's for you to decide, necessarily. [01:44:26] Speaker C: Oh, that's what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:44:29] Speaker A: I think that, you know, when, when people start introducing you. Oh, this is, you know, Justin shoots Cannon, but he is a professional photographer. A couple of quick comments from the group a bit earlier on, Diggifrog said, love the story of the foundation. Brilliant, Russell. Must be very rewarding working with the kids. Keep it up. And I think we can all agree that's incredibly inspirational to hear from old mate Nev alumni of the show. Where was that? Quick question, Russell. Are you a self taught photographer or did you study photography in your former years? [01:45:09] Speaker C: No, I've never even done art. Like, I left school before year ten. Like, just picked up the camera and thought it'd be easy and soon realized that when you get your slides back that they look like a checkerboard. You got a little bit to learn, like, either too white or too dark and stuff like that. So it was more self taught, but, like, the former photography I was in was more action, impact, being in the water. So I already had that skill, which was. Which was nice, but, yeah, definitely self taught, but. And always learning, for sure. [01:45:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, never stop. And another comment from Nev. It's an interesting conversation, as I feel many photographers are very introverted, and that can be a challenge for them. I'm even thinking of helping other photographers jump through that. And I agree, Nev. I mean, I'm a very introverted person. I don't. I'm not very outgoing, and, you know, and I think that's another reason why I didn't go down the pro, you know, full time photography commercial or wedding or whatever it was. I wanted to. I wanted to decide what I wanted to shoot and who I wanted to shoot for. But it is a challenge for a lot of people, you know, and even going on photo walks, I see, you know, recently did a photo walk where Charlie, who's been on the show from Fujifilm, joined us. We were on a photo walk a little earlier on in the year and with a camera store in Melbourne, and they had hired two models to work, you know, to pose while we're on the street and take some shots. And none of the photographers had the confidence to ask the models how to pose. And like I said, I consider myself to be introverted, and I had to speak up and sort of say, okay, guys, let's, you know, extend your neck, push out your jawline a little, tilt your head slightly, and sort of help the others get into that, that mindset. But there is a lot of. I think there's a lot that could be done to help other photographers around that and things like workshops and, you know, joining a photography community and. [01:47:17] Speaker C: Yeah, I was just saying, like, when I first started doing weddings, I was second shooting. There's only, like, two wedding photographers in Muggs at that time. So it was years ago. There's, like 100 now. But that was. I'm very introverted. Like, it's like, I knew that when I started shooting weddings, if I needed to get some shots, I wanted to get. I had to learn how to talk. I actually had to be a little. And so it was a skill I had to learn. And so what I did is for three months, I forced myself to talk to one stranger every day, and, yeah, for three months in a row. And how to make conversation and read books on how to do that. Like, you can't just go, oh, the weather's good. That's just. Yep. That's just, like, an endless conversation, that kind of thing. And we did. This is what I was saying with the kids the other day when we did the street walk. That's what I was teaching the kids. [01:48:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:48:21] Speaker C: Because they're like, I'm like, you need to be able to do this to get what you want. You're not gonna. It's tough, and it's not. It comes naturally to some people, and then I have to work on it. It's something I've had to really work on, and that really helped me. And now I feel like I'm really good at it. Like, my wife gets annoyed. Like, well, I'll start speaking to, like, I'll say to her, I'm going, I'm gonna do that thing. And she's like, don't do that. Then we'll be in Sydney, and I'll talk to 20 people going down the street, find out their story. But you got to be actually interested as well. [01:49:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:49:02] Speaker C: And it's. It's just a skill level that's just a part of the photography skilled. Otherwise, I wouldn't. I wouldn't actually do podcasts. I wouldn't do anything. I mean, I do a couple of talks with Shannon Worrell, and that is. This is the scariest thing I'd ever done. Like, being up in front of people doing a keynote. Like, every time we go to do one, I feel like I shouldn't be doing this, and I'm so scared. But you only get good at it if you keep doing it. [01:49:37] Speaker B: Yeah, that's exactly it. It's funny that. Yeah, it's so cool that you were that aware that you were, like, all right. I'm going to practice this every day until I. Because I know that this is a skill that I need. I think it's that awareness that is the difference, you know, it's easy to. [01:49:54] Speaker C: Figure out when you get sent to the guys, you know, as a second shooter, you get sent to where the guys are. [01:49:59] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:50:00] Speaker C: Go in and you're just like a stunned mullet. [01:50:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:50:06] Speaker C: Really? [01:50:07] Speaker B: You got to break. Break it down. Have a bit of fun with them. [01:50:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:50:10] Speaker B: You get to get the mood going or whatever. It's funny you say that about the keynotes, because that terrifies me, that sort of stuff, for sure. And I've. I'm comfortable talking to people. I'm definitely an introvert, but I ended up in a couple of sales jobs in my earlier years. Before I was a professional photographer, I was selling. Selling cars and selling boats and without. [01:50:36] Speaker A: I didn't say you were selling cars. [01:50:38] Speaker B: At some point I was, yeah, absolutely. [01:50:40] Speaker A: There's a lot of. [01:50:41] Speaker B: I was the worst car salesman ever because people would come in and they'd be like, so tell me about the Mazda three. And I would be like, how have you not already researched this yourself? Like, everything you need to know about this car is already on the Internet. Like, I'll just put you in for. You take it for a test drive. That's all you need to do, really. Right. You know, like, how do you. What do you want me to tell you? So I was a terrible casus. I really wasn't. I was fine. But I. Those years and being around the. The people that were good at that job definitely changed me from being completely introverted to the point where I didn't even like ringing people on the phone. You know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't want to ring and order fish and chips back. That was the thing, people back in the day, you have to ring to order fish and chips. You didn't just do it on the Internet. And I didn't like doing shit like that when I was younger. And then, obviously, you go through those jobs for five or six years, and you come out a completely changed person, and it's no problem to talk to anyone about anything, but giving a talk on stage still terrifies the shit out of me. And I was listening to someone the other day, this bro, famous Internet guy called Alex Hormozi, who's actually very, very smart when it comes to business. And he was talking to someone about the fear of public speaking, and he said, it's actually completely. It's not a fear of public speaking, it's a fear of making a mistake because you're under prepared. And he said, if you prepare and practice, if you do your talk a hundred times into the mirror or into a camera and watch it back and prepare and rewrite it and do it again and do it again, he said that fear will go away. I was like, that's a good point, because I've done a few talks, and I've never put proper preparation into it. I might have put some slides together or something like that, but I didn't stand and practice it or anything. I've never practiced public speaking. And I was like, oh, it's probably a fair point to just can't just expect to be good at something you've never worked on, you know, when it doesn't come naturally to me, it's like if I. If I want to try and not be scared of it, I probably got to practice it a bit. So I was like, okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Have you ever practiced, Russell? You like your public speaking stuff, or you. [01:53:03] Speaker C: Yeah, we had someone help us with the. The actual. The keynote itself. And then you like, for me, it is. Preparation is definitely key. It's like, preparation for anything's key, but it's also the fear of, like, I always say, I don't really care what people think of me. But you do. Like, when you're on the stage, you're like, if I stuff up, what do people think? That's what you kind of get scared of. But I, with my one, like, Shannon always starts, so I've got. He's like a duo, so that's handy for me. I don't know if I could do it myself yet. Well, I've done a lot on my own photography wise, so I probably could, but this, this certain talk we do, I definitely couldn't do it on my own. And I feel like if you prepare for your first segment, what I talk about, why I left the fire brigade, it's. If I get that right, the talk goes good, and I'm not as nervous once you get on, because I feel like I nailed it. It felt good, and. But if you bumbled your way through it, you could freak out. I mean, the first time we ever did one, the company got us to do a talk to, like, 20 executive mine workers, and we've never even done a talk, right. And they were going for a contract, like, and the lady before us was a brain surgeon, and I was listening to her talk, and I'm like, oh, my God. I started. I nearly couldn't do it. The talk. I'm so scared. Scared as I've ever been. [01:54:53] Speaker B: Wow. [01:54:54] Speaker C: Like, my, when I got up, it was, it was quite, was this small, like, area, but it wasn't like, you're right on stage. I had to put my hand on my leg because I felt like it was shaking so much. And then I, you know, because ours are quite personal, our talks, and, you know, Shannon, he's, he's, he's pretty good with it. And I felt like I nearly started breaking down, like, having a few tears because I mentally went back there. Then it finished and I thought, my God, that was the worst thing I'd ever done. I'm not doing it. I'm never doing it again. But then we started getting feedback and people like, oh, that's happened to me, like, part of the talk. And they really love what we do. And they employed us to go up to the mines for seven days straight, mental health week. Like, and they. I said, oh, look, the lady before us was, no, we'll get that lady in for the executives in a board meeting. But the guys won't even be able to. Aussies that are talking story. And so then it eventually got a little easier and a little easier, but, like, if I have to do a talk next week, I'd be on the way up. I'd be thinking about it. [01:56:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:56:16] Speaker C: I'm kind of, you know, to be freaking out a little bit. [01:56:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:56:19] Speaker B: Yep. [01:56:20] Speaker A: Yep, that's. [01:56:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that's. Oh, man, I can't believe you. Like, that's terrifying. Meanwhile, you'll swim out to the right. [01:56:29] Speaker C: Or so much easier. We say that we did a talk last two weeks ago at the Burswood, which is a big funk for, like, 400 school principals and vice principals. [01:56:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:56:41] Speaker C: And I saw. And we were the last ones off. And they had, like, I think they had Justin Langer, the australian cricketer, in the morning. Like, you've got this kind of fear of, like, the guys played for Australia, like, me and Shannon. [01:56:54] Speaker B: What? [01:56:55] Speaker C: We've done anything. Like, we've done nothing. Just like two oca Aussies, they got off the street. I felt like it went well. But then the, you know, some of the things when people come up to you afterwards and it's, it's like, super rewarding. So you got to remind yourself, like, if you, one person goes and gets help or whatever it is, you've done your job. [01:57:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:57:22] Speaker C: It's not about you anyway. [01:57:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:57:26] Speaker C: Yeah. Scary times, but, yeah, I would prefer to be at home. Do just mean the wife and that's it? [01:57:33] Speaker B: Yep. [01:57:34] Speaker C: For sure. That's the comfort zone. [01:57:38] Speaker A: Most definitely. [01:57:39] Speaker C: That's the zone. You don't grow in the comfort zone. [01:57:42] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:57:43] Speaker A: It's very true. [01:57:44] Speaker B: Yep. [01:57:46] Speaker A: Very true indeed. Just looking at the time, I think we might jump into a bit of news. [01:57:52] Speaker B: Yeah, we probably should. I think there's. There's a couple of quick comments in there while you're bringing up the news. I can quickly cover off that. Jason said he's happily an unprofessional photographer as long as it's fun, enjoyable. The title is unimportant. And what else did I spot in here? Oh, yeah, that's right. It was Bruce Gilden that said that he's going to be broke by the end of the year. And he's the street photographer that gets up in people's faces and takes photos without their permission kind of thing. [01:58:26] Speaker C: Yeah. I find that difficult to do. Like, it's probably an art form of his, but, like, you're not even learning about the person that you get the shot of. How was Bruce making money prior? [01:58:39] Speaker A: I think he was selling his prints. [01:58:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:58:41] Speaker A: Because of the New York aesthetic and the shy appearance of people. I mean, found it intriguing and artistic. [01:58:49] Speaker B: I think he's almost 80, so I've seen. [01:58:54] Speaker C: Yeah, it's incredible work. [01:58:56] Speaker A: Yeah. But the world has changed. You know, the world's become more private and more. You know, we've all retreated a little bit, given that the world's gone mad. And I think. Yeah, the world's changed. That's not as appealing anymore. [01:59:11] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And when it comes to public speaking, Yelena says, practice, practice, practice. Yelena's a gym coach, so she practiced, practice, practiced every. Every day. [01:59:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:59:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:59:23] Speaker C: I mean, it's like anything, though. You're not going to get better without doing it. [01:59:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:59:32] Speaker A: Let's jump to the news. [01:59:33] Speaker B: What news have we got? Fujifilm brought out any new cameras? [01:59:36] Speaker A: No. Well, no, not Fujifilm, but Vitrox. Is that how he saw Viltrox? Let me bring it up. Vitrox shows off its massive hundred thousand dollar medium format, ten times zoom lens. What, for GFX? [01:59:50] Speaker C: Jesus. [01:59:51] Speaker A: 400, 2042 to 420 mil. [01:59:58] Speaker B: You swim with that, Russell? [02:00:00] Speaker C: I would if they give me one, but. Jesus. Like, how does. [02:00:05] Speaker A: I mean, look at this. [02:00:06] Speaker C: That's easy. [02:00:08] Speaker B: It is a GFX. [02:00:10] Speaker A: Well, it's a t. It's a t aperture, so it's more precise. But that's debatable. It's a cine quality lens. [02:00:21] Speaker B: Yes. [02:00:22] Speaker A: So you put the t in front of the. The aperture and all of a sudden it's ten times the price, but still $100,000. And look at. I mean that's a GFX. Probably a 100s on the back. [02:00:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:00:35] Speaker A: Which is a bit. Not a small camera. And that thing's massive. [02:00:40] Speaker B: I wonder who, like. Who is that for? [02:00:44] Speaker A: Motorsports photographers or cinematographers? [02:00:49] Speaker B: Cinematography. Yeah, that's what I'm like. [02:00:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. But 42. But to 420, if you drop a teleconverter on that, well, sky's the limit. [02:01:06] Speaker C: I mean like really like people in that, that could afford that. Are they going to use that lens with the GFX? They're going to be using reds and stuff, aren't they? [02:01:16] Speaker B: That's what I was wondering. But reds aren't medium format, are they? [02:01:19] Speaker A: No, this is. This is being built for GFX mount and I think Hasselblad, from what I saw, I read another article, Hasselblad X 2D. So this is not for cine cameras. I mean having said that, GFX, the 100s mk two has some pretty impressive cinema capabilities. But if we're looking at cinema cameras, that's a lovely segue there. [02:01:44] Speaker B: Well done. [02:01:45] Speaker A: Thank you, Russell. There's another little. Speaking of cinema. Sorry guys, bit slow on the clicks. Black magic has announced an impressive Ursa cine 17k camera. [02:02:00] Speaker B: That's not. It's not enough. 17 until it's at 20k. I'm not even interested. [02:02:06] Speaker A: I mean it is a bit of ten k. They've only just announced the pricing so I don't think it's out yet. Just trying to find a bit more info on it. Do they miss the price? [02:02:24] Speaker C: Which one did my son just. My son just ordered one. [02:02:28] Speaker B: A black magic. [02:02:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. [02:02:33] Speaker A: Just trying to find the price. There we go. 30 grand. [02:02:35] Speaker B: That's grand. That's. I mean 17k. [02:02:40] Speaker C: Like that one though. [02:02:41] Speaker B: She's. You'd need to. [02:02:43] Speaker C: His one's twelve k. Oh, that's still outrageous. Yeah. [02:02:48] Speaker A: Blackmagic's Aussie owned company, isn't it? Pretty sure, yes. [02:02:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:02:53] Speaker B: Oh wow. [02:02:55] Speaker A: What? [02:02:56] Speaker C: That lens on that camera is probably worth the same amount. [02:03:00] Speaker B: That's what I was gonna say. What brand is that lens, Greg? That's a nice looking lens. It is a liker, isn't it? Yeah. [02:03:06] Speaker A: No food. [02:03:07] Speaker B: You film on that one. [02:03:08] Speaker A: Oh, whatever. Last little bit of news, which I think is interesting because there's been a lot of dedicate a whole nother show to it on a whole nother channel. Let me just find my place guys. Sorry. And one more. The drone photographers and videographers out there. In case you missed it, the US Congress has banned DJI drones. [02:03:36] Speaker B: They did. [02:03:36] Speaker A: To pass. To pass. The Senate can't remember how american politics works because they're made by China and they need. Well, they need Internet connectivity to operate. And because they're in it, that because they're a Bluetooth and a Wi Fi enabled device that comes from China, the us government is fearful of it. [02:03:58] Speaker B: Now, I was under the impression, though, that this ban was only going to be relevant to, like, government departments purchasing them, not to the average consumer. Everybody. [02:04:10] Speaker A: Everybody. [02:04:11] Speaker C: Only DJI drones at this point. [02:04:15] Speaker A: Yeah, but they're also talking about banning chinese made cars, anything that basically has connectivity. Because, you know, China is the new Russia for the american people. They always need to have a villain to justify their budgets. [02:04:29] Speaker B: Wow. [02:04:30] Speaker A: So, yeah, so it hasn't been fully passed. Um. [02:04:34] Speaker B: But that might get passed, surely? [02:04:36] Speaker A: I don't know. [02:04:39] Speaker B: Yeah. So what about existing owners? What would happen? [02:04:43] Speaker A: I'm pretty sure from what I read, that if you've already got one, that's fine. [02:04:46] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [02:04:48] Speaker A: For at least now, DJI drones, older, new, are still legally usable in the United States. [02:04:53] Speaker B: Could take months or longer. Wow. [02:04:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:04:56] Speaker B: Interesting. [02:04:57] Speaker A: Yeah. They're really against chinese tech at the moment because, you know, gotta be fearful of someone. [02:05:05] Speaker B: Well, I. Look, I am scared as to how fast DJI getting good at shit. They've just released e mountain bikes like their specs, and I've seen one in the flesh, but we haven't. We'll be testing it. I do Russ. I do shoot for a mountain bike publication, the tech editors in my town. So all the new bikes and stuff that come out, I do photo and video with him, which is super fun. Yeah, it's the best job in the world. We just go mountain biking, and I take photos and video. It's sweet. But, yeah, I've seen this bike. And so, like, they've used all of their drone battery tech and drone motor tech, and they're like, even the screen on the bike is actually the same screen out of their action cameras. So it's like fully waterproof, touch responsive and all that sort of stuff. So, subject to our first actual reviews and testing, this bike is leapfrogged in terms of its battery and motor tech. Everything on the market, it's leapfrogged. It's like bigger battery, more powerful motor, lighter weight, all of that sort of stuff. More connectivity and everything. And it's like, geez, they. They're getting scary good at innovation in a brand. Like we didn't even think. Who would have guessed DJI would go, oh, no, let's do bikes now, you know? Yeah, it doesn't even make sense. [02:06:30] Speaker A: I saw a video on to try and find it one day on Instagram of a new bike tech that self. The bike is self leveling. Yeah. [02:06:42] Speaker B: So you can't fall off. [02:06:43] Speaker A: So. Yeah. Like, well, it's. It kind of works like a gimbal. Like, it kind of brings you back in line. So it uses, like, camera tech to know that you're actually and probably, you know, what do you call it? Gyroscope mechanism, whatever they use to know that you're. You're going at a dangerous angle. And it kind of writes you a bit. It kind of aids you in that process, which is we're just one step away from self riding bikes, then you. [02:07:09] Speaker B: Don'T end on the bikes. Just let it go. [02:07:12] Speaker A: Don't need pedals. Yeah. Right. [02:07:14] Speaker B: Well, hopefully DJI doesn't get banned over here because I've got two drones. Do you shoot drone, Russell? [02:07:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I've got a drone. Yeah. All the prints I've got in here, all out of a chopper, though, I'm still, like, I still love doing that. I've spoke about, like, normally someone asked me a drone question, and I write them off. Like, I'm just not. Like, I've got one. I love what they do, but, you know, anything you can learn in one day is actually not that it's not a skill, in my opinion. [02:07:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:07:49] Speaker C: And that sort of. Sort of rubs people up on the right wrong way. You know, I've got one. I love it as a package. But when you see a photo competition and a drone shot wins, compared to, like, someone that learned how to climb up a mountain, it took seven years to be able to get in position to take a sunrise shot. [02:08:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:08:09] Speaker C: For me, that is. That is just not even a comparison. Like, one's got a skill and got a number of skills to get the shot, and the other one is just got a skill that you're learning today, so they shouldn't be in the same genre. And it's just, you know, that's just my opinion, of course, even though I've got one and I love it, it's. Yeah, and that, you know, taken photography to a whole new level, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're doing comparisons, you've really got to look into how that shot was captured. And I feel like people don't do that, even including photo editors. [02:08:55] Speaker B: Yeah. And, I mean, I guess to argue the other side of the point. Maybe not for a photo competition, but in terms of just like, editors and things like that, at the end of the day, from the other side, you could look at it and go, well, does it matter how it was made? Just objectively compare this photo to that photo. You can look at it that way. But certainly, yeah, for photo competitions and things like that, it does start to get weird. If it's really easy to just fly a drone up over. Over a spot versus, I guess, searching, because the other hard thing is image quality wise, a drone still can't compete with any modern camera, even a fujifilm. See what I did there? But when you're doing an online photo competition that only gets judged at essentially screen resolution, a drone looks fine. A drone looks the same as a, you know, whatever camera, but if they take. [02:09:58] Speaker C: They take beautiful shots. I reckon I've got the new one. It does. It's amazing. You can print pretty big with it. [02:10:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:10:05] Speaker C: And it looks good. But, you know, you know, I look back at my work and it's the story behind the shot or the journey. It's not that. It's not the end result. It's the journey to get the shot. There's no journey. The shots, not that important. [02:10:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:10:20] Speaker A: And I think it's also that. Were you really present or were you sitting on, you know, sitting on a park bench 500 meters away? [02:10:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:10:30] Speaker A: When you use. When you were flying the drone, you know, when you're piloting the drone, were you really present for the shot? [02:10:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:10:36] Speaker A: Or did you just pluck a, you know, high res image out of video? So it's. Yeah, there's a whole bunch of stuff around. I think it'll be interesting to see what happens with the DJI ban in the US, especially, like, for small, you know, cinema companies and even some of the big Hollywood who would trust and use the big DJI rigs, the pro rigs. [02:10:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:10:59] Speaker A: Well, how that's going to change their. [02:11:00] Speaker B: Industry there, that new inspire or whatever it is, that thing's epic. I wanted one of them. I just had no reason to own it and wouldn't be able to fly it because I don't have any of those skills. But when I saw the video, when that thing come out, that thing's insane. Like, yeah, proper. And that's what. Have you heard the rumors? They're talking about DJI making a camera, like a full frame or format still. Yep, it's rumbling. [02:11:29] Speaker A: But there's also, like, the. Apart from the photography side of stuff, DJI make a whole bunch of agricultural drones. [02:11:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:11:37] Speaker A: That scan fields for pests and crop quality and crop quantity and. And even they use drones for pesticide and. [02:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:11:46] Speaker A: Stock control and. [02:11:47] Speaker B: Yeah, huge, big, big ones. That's what the DJI product manager for the bikes was saying on this video. Someone had said, you know, what, sort of, why would you get into the bike market and why would consumers trust you? Because this is your first ever bike or whatever. And the guy was like, dude, this motor and battery pack is nothing compared to our agricultural drones. [02:12:10] Speaker A: Like, yeah. [02:12:11] Speaker B: He's like, this was easy. [02:12:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:12:13] Speaker B: You know, it's like, this is small. Yeah. Smaller and easier. He said when it. When it doesn't have to fly, it's not. It's not that hard. [02:12:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:12:21] Speaker B: Like, that's a fair point because they. [02:12:24] Speaker A: Also make the software that, you know, reads the 3d map. Like, yeah, your whole property. And so it knows where every. Every tree is. Every. [02:12:34] Speaker B: You know, I was watching a. There's this youtuber that cruises around the US going into weird towns and stuff like that. And, you know, some of the areas affected by drug use and all that sort of stuff. I think his name is Peter Santanello, gets huge views on these videos where he just strolls around and meets people and finds out the story of the town. And he did a ride along with some police in the US, and they were using DJI drones for, like, rescue and support and stuff like that. Because I knew. I saw it. As soon as I saw it, I was like, I know the two models of those drones they're using. And this was in the US, so, like, they're being used by government departments currently. [02:13:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:13:13] Speaker B: And they might get banned. You know, like they were training on them. Yeah, imagine that. Like, at the next minute, they're like, okay, all that training. Delete all of that. Throw out all this equipment. [02:13:23] Speaker A: Well, like, Jason's just dropped a comment saying what it will do, potentially, is create an opening for another company to step into the breach if DGA is gone. But is anyone else within two or three generations of DJI tech? Yeah, and I don't think they are. [02:13:39] Speaker B: Probably not. Not anyone that I know or tell one or whatever it is. Yeah. [02:13:45] Speaker A: In that gig. But interesting. Interesting to see what will happen. Nev has said, agree on the journey. Sorry, comment. Go. Agree on the journey. It's a storytelling aspect of being present. But Americans ban drones, but guns are still legal. Let's not go there. [02:14:00] Speaker B: Imagine drones with guns on them. [02:14:03] Speaker A: I did say completely maybe legal. Speaking of that, I think it was in San Francisco, the police are using those Boston robotic dog drones with the one with the kind of the hand that can open doors, the arm. And they use that to go in where there was a suspected shooter in a building and completely off photography here. But they were. Yeah, they use that in the. In place of sending in a person. [02:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:14:33] Speaker A: To actually try and assess the situation. And I mean, police force has been using robots for years, but it's whole new level when this thing knows to look for a doorknob, open the door, go in. [02:14:42] Speaker B: Have you seen those dog robots, Russell? [02:14:45] Speaker C: No, no, I don't get online that much. [02:14:49] Speaker B: Yeah, you'll have to google them at some point. It's the creepiest thing you've ever seen. [02:14:54] Speaker A: Because it was also completely off topic, but there was a show on Netflix, Black Mirror, a bit of a Sci-Fi and there was an episode called Metalhead. And it was about those exact dogs going a bit rogue and wiping out humanity. Kind of terminated, tossed up old stuff. Anyway, we are off topic and we are over time. [02:15:13] Speaker B: We are off topic and overtime, let. [02:15:16] Speaker A: Me wrap up first and foremost by saying a huge thank you to you, Russell. Tremendous to hear your story. Very inspirational. Very humble, too, I will add, and I'm sure that those that are watching along and have watched and will watch, really appreciate you taking the time to share that with us on behalf of Lucky Straps and Justin and I and Jim, who's not present. But, yeah, thanks. We really appreciate it, mate. Great to have you on board. [02:15:43] Speaker C: No, I think. Thanks for having me. [02:15:45] Speaker A: It's. [02:15:45] Speaker C: I mean, it's such an effort being able to do a podcast from, you know, your guys point of view. Such a good skill, too. [02:15:53] Speaker B: I appreciate it. We're, what are we, 30 something episodes? 31. We're finally getting a rhythm. We had a big, big gap for a while because you're right, it isn't, it's not easy to keep it rolling. But Greg's. Greg's taken over the. The reins of finding guests and that certainly made things a lot, a lot easier to keep it. Keep it cruising along and, you know. [02:16:11] Speaker A: Fuji shooters, but they are. [02:16:13] Speaker B: I can't do anything about that. Doing it live makes a big difference, too, because then it's. Now we don't. We're done. We're done. So it's. [02:16:21] Speaker C: Have you guys heard of. Here's just a name off the top of my head who's got a pretty good story is Crystal Wright. [02:16:29] Speaker B: Yes. I would love to have Crystal Wright on the show. Guess. Guess what equipment she shoots with. [02:16:36] Speaker A: Great cannon. [02:16:39] Speaker B: Like her. She was canon. She. She's a, like, a liker ambassador now. Yeah. Beast. Yeah. I love following some of her stuff. She just had a. She had a bit of a play around with. What's it called? Storm photography. Storm chasing, stuff like that. [02:16:57] Speaker C: Say it how it is as well. She doesn't sugarcoat it. [02:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:17:00] Speaker C: Which is what I like it. So, you know, it's the raw emotion about it. It's. Yeah. And she's very good. And, you know, for her to get where she has. [02:17:13] Speaker B: Well. [02:17:15] Speaker C: That'S the kind of thing I was talking about. I wish I could take that shot, and I know I can't. You know, it's that kind of. You know what? She's. [02:17:26] Speaker B: That's the perfect example of, you know, I might be able to fly a drone up to a similar spot to where she takes those photos. She freaking climbs up there, you know, like, with gear. Yeah, yeah, she's. Yeah. Watched a few videos on her, but we got it. Yeah, we got to try and get her on. We just need to make this podcast be more famous first. So, like. And subscribe, people. Where. Where should people follow you, Russell? Instagram is the best spot of. Or are you doing. [02:17:54] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Yeah, I'm not. I still try to answer everyone that sends me questions and stuff like that on social. [02:18:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:18:05] Speaker C: So, yeah. [02:18:07] Speaker B: Yelena and I are hoping to travel to the wa in our van, hopefully next. Early next year sometime. So we'll. If we are, we'll make sure we come now. [02:18:19] Speaker C: It'll be good. We'll go for a shoot somewhere. [02:18:21] Speaker B: Oh, that would be cool. [02:18:23] Speaker A: Can I be a third wheel? [02:18:25] Speaker B: Yeah, jump in the vanguard. [02:18:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. We'll be nice and snug. We will bring the show to a close, Russell. Thanks once again. Before we do finish up, what are your photography plans this weekend? [02:18:40] Speaker C: If anything, I think I'm in the gallery. My wife and daughter are going to Sydney. My daughter's doing design school over there, so she. She's doing a stint over there. So I'm stuck in the gallery. I can't still lift my right arm, so I can't do too much photography. If the surf's okay, I can get a few little point and shoots from the shoreline. Maybe it's fortress because I'd rather be surfing. But, yeah, basically got a couple of weeks off from the foundation because the school holidays and here in the gallery. So if people come in, I'll be here chatting away. Nice introverted self trying to learn new skills. [02:19:24] Speaker A: Nice one, Justin. What have you got on what do. [02:19:28] Speaker B: We got this weekend? Not much really. Yelena and I heading away for the weekend. Quiet little, little getaway. We take a camera, maybe film a little video or I something, but otherwise, no, not much. [02:19:41] Speaker A: Very nice, you. As for me, what have I got on? It's afl weekend here, so there's always lots of people around. I might hit the city up on on Friday. I think the Australian association of Street Photographers Inc. Are doing a photo walk. I might join them on Friday for the parade. It's always a good time to do some street work. You know, people are related and there's a lot going on and all of that sort of stuff. As much as I don't enjoy football, I'm not ashamed to say so. That'll be me. [02:20:17] Speaker B: Cool. [02:20:18] Speaker A: Thanks. Thanks once again, Russell. Thanks, Russell. And maybe down the track we'll have you on again to chat more about philosophy. [02:20:28] Speaker C: People won't want to hear me twice, I'll tell you that. [02:20:31] Speaker B: I bet you they will. [02:20:32] Speaker A: You'd be surprised. [02:20:33] Speaker C: That's the whole story in a couple of hours. [02:20:37] Speaker A: All right, well, look, on that note, on behalf of lucky camera straps, this has been the Camera Life podcast, episode 31. Thanks to everyone who's been commenting and following along and we'll see you next week. We've got Mark Condon joining us who is CEO of Shopkit.com. he's my other boss and it's going to be a bit scary, me having both my bosses on a video call. [02:21:01] Speaker C: You have to be nice. [02:21:02] Speaker A: I haven't thought this through. All right, well, we'll see you next week for my crucifixion. Until then, get out and shoot. Chase the light. Have a great day. Thanks, guys. [02:21:12] Speaker C: Thanks. Cheers.