EP143 Samuel Markham | Australian Geographic 2023 Nature Photography of the Year

[00:00:01] Speaker A: The camera light. The flash ignites. [00:00:04] Speaker B: Frame the world. [00:00:05] Speaker A: See it right. [00:00:07] Speaker B: The camera light. Well, good morning everybody. Welcome back to the Camera Life podcast. It is Thursday 18th December, 2025 here in very hot and sunny Victoria, Australia. And this is episode 143 of the Camera Life PodC, proudly brought to you by Lucky Straps. Head to Luckystraps.com if you're looking for a premium handcrafted Aussie made leather camera strap or a belt, or perhaps you want some merch, maybe a hoodie or a tee, show your support, head to the site. Use code Greg for a healthy discount. That's G R E G. There are no other discount codes. Just use mine. No competition there at all. But today being a Thursday morning, we are of course joined. Well, obviously the boss is here. Justin, welcome. Good morning. Is the forecast hot for Bendigo as well today? [00:01:02] Speaker A: It's gonna be super hot. We're gonna go later. I think 37. Let me check. It might even hit 40 yet. We are. It is going to hit 40 in Bendigo at 5pm it will hit 40. [00:01:16] Speaker B: Oh, that's gross. Anyway, enough about you. We are joined today by Australian landscape and wilderness photographer Samuel Malcolm. G', day, Sam. How are you, mate? Hello. [00:01:28] Speaker C: I'm good, how are you guys? Thank you for having me. [00:01:31] Speaker A: Great look. [00:01:32] Speaker B: Thank you for joining. Thank you for joining to come and tell us about your craft and your story on our humble little channel. And of course, we are joined this morning by our live chat. Justin, you want to say good day to some peeps? [00:01:43] Speaker A: Yeah, they're starting to trickle in already. Obviously Philip Johnson is here, as always. Good morning, Philip. Rodney Nicholson. Morning, ltk. Good to see you. Stuart Lyle. Good morning. The one and only David Mascara. Hey, from the bay. Our first live international live call in which was. [00:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah, Monday night. [00:02:01] Speaker A: That was pretty cool. And that was very cool. And Rodney Nicholson. It's already hot on the coast. I bet it is. Yeah, I bet it is. [00:02:09] Speaker B: So if you are in Victoria today, stay safe, hydrate, wear a hat, slip, slop, slap. [00:02:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, remember that? [00:02:16] Speaker B: Remember the ads? [00:02:18] Speaker C: Slide, slide and shade. [00:02:23] Speaker B: Is it five now? [00:02:24] Speaker C: What? [00:02:25] Speaker B: It was only three when I was a kid. What's going on? What have they added? [00:02:30] Speaker C: Slide, which is your sunnies. And then shade. [00:02:34] Speaker B: So slip. Slip on a shirt, slap on some sunscreen, slap on a hat, slide your sunnies on. Seek some shade. [00:02:41] Speaker C: And seek some shade. [00:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's just become obnoxious, man. [00:02:44] Speaker A: That's getting crazy. Like 10 steps, a manual to read. Anyway, yeah, now, so, yeah, Samuel, you Prefer Samuel, not Sam. [00:02:58] Speaker C: Yes, either. Either. I don't mind. [00:03:01] Speaker A: Either. Either doesn't mind. Okay, cool. [00:03:03] Speaker B: Perfect. [00:03:05] Speaker A: And you're a photographer, I've heard. [00:03:07] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, I think occasionally. [00:03:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's always good to hear. We're going to dive into your whole story, but one thing that caught both Justin and my attention in preparing for today's interview is that you actually have developed an app specifically for landscape photography in Australia. Can you tell us a little bit about that? [00:03:31] Speaker C: Yeah, so when I kind of first picked up a camera in 2011, like, probably fast forward maybe three years or so, I, you know, you start to kind of become obsessed with locations and places and things like that. And, you know, you. Everyone's kind of, especially in landscape photography, most people have got, you know, places that they want to go and photograph, you know, in Australia. And then, you know, you start writing down your list on your phone or something and then that list just kind of explodes. And, you know, I started doing it with like, kind of states, so like Queensland and then New South Wales and then Victoria and having different locations in each state. And then I thought, oh, why don't I pin them all on a. You can create like an interactive Google map. Yep, it's called. Yes, like Google my maps or something. And so I started doing that and then that, that was a really, really good way of doing it. I still use that today. And then fast forward probably a couple more years and then I thought to myself, well, why don't I make this accessible to other people, you know, other landscape photographers, other people who love travel and want to see some cool places. So basically what I did over the course of about a year was I teamed up with a company called Rexby, who. They're actually an Icelandic company, which is a bit, bit strange. But anyway, yeah, teamed up with them, they basically created the application and then I've basically just kind of put my data onto the application to create the map. So each location has obviously got a name, it's got photos, it's got a description, it's got, you know, is it good at sunrise, sunset? Is it accessible to people? You know, if you're in a wheelchair or you take your pets, can you take the kids? Yeah, so it's kids, never take kids. [00:05:34] Speaker B: On a landscape shoot. [00:05:38] Speaker C: But yeah, so then. And also obviously, like I said, you know, tides, if you can only access the place at low tide, things like that. And yeah, it's been, it's been crazy. It's been. It took me so long to put all the information in and it's, yeah, so many people. Like, like I said, I'm only one person. So I don't know every location that's decent for landscape photography. So it's currently kind of being community driven, so. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, it launched with over about 500 locations and now we're almost up to about 700. And yeah, so it's got all these little pins and yeah, people can zoom in, they can kind of like they can star the locations that they find interesting so they can have kind of their own little database of the ones that they really want to see. [00:06:29] Speaker B: That's very cool. [00:06:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:30] Speaker B: And so how long did Curious because it's a, it's an ingenious way to solve a problem that many photographers have. And you know, how long did it take do you think? All up to, from, from concept through to, you know, Rexby actually finishing the product, you being satisfied with it and putting it out to market. How long did that process take for you? [00:06:49] Speaker C: So Rexby is basically, they're like a designer for applications. So I'm not the only one that's who's got a map. There's other people around the world using Rexby as a, like as a source for the map, for a map, but me basically putting the data in that probably took at least a year, maybe even more because I basically had to transfer all my own things over to their application software and then I had to like my, my original map just had just pins, it just had a pin and a name. That's it. And that was all but transferring it over. I wanted to have a pin, I wanted to have a name, I wanted to have photos, I wanted to have descriptions and tips and tricks and all this type of stuff. And yeah, it's, they're, they're an incredible support team as well. You know, they, if you need anything you can have a, like this type of thing. You can have a face to face meeting on the, on the, on the net with them and yeah, they help you. And yeah, it's like I said, it was really, really hard work to try and get it all up and running. But now that it's up and running, yeah it's, it's really, really fantastic. [00:08:02] Speaker B: That's very cool. And so it's not a subscription, it's a once off lifetime payment. So you pay once and then it's yours forever. Curious to know from, I guess from a business economic point of view was the one off option more attractive do you think, for customers over a subscription? Do you think that we're being inundated with so many subscriptions that people just want to get the thing and own it. What was your thinking around that? [00:08:27] Speaker C: Yeah, look, I think that in a world of, you know, digital media, you know, Things like movies, CDs, video games, all those types of things, people don't own them anymore. You know, they stream them. This is, you know, it's still digital media, but you are just owning it straight out. You don't have to continually pay for it like something like Netflix. And look, we don't all have money that's just, you know, you can constantly use for a subscription. So I just thought, you know, look, it's being a one off payment. It's a whole lot easier for, you know, people. They just have to pay for it once. There's also a feature in the application that you can invite a friend, one friend, for free. So it's technically half price as well. [00:09:22] Speaker B: So two licenses. [00:09:23] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So if you want to, if you want to split it with a friend, the payment, then yeah, it's half price. [00:09:30] Speaker B: We won't assume that we're going to split the payment because I was just going to say Justin can buy it and I can use it. [00:09:34] Speaker C: Yeah, well, Christmas is coming up. [00:09:36] Speaker A: You're probably Grant for it, Greg. [00:09:38] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe. [00:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah, he's pretty. This is Grant loves landscape photography and maps and stuff. This is right up his alley. I wanted to know, so if you. Is there any way to get a taste of what it's like before buying the app? Or is it. You basically got to jump in head first and buy it and then get in there and have a look around and, and see what it's like or is there any kind of trial or anything like that? [00:10:06] Speaker C: Yeah. So you can go on to the actual Rexby website and then there's hundreds of different maps from all different people. There's, you know, influences. There's foodies, just maps on food of. Oh yeah, it's somewhere in Europe. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so I'm not the only person who's got the this type of thing. But yeah, what you can do is if you click onto mine, I think there's 10 to 15 or something free locations so you can kind of zoom in, have a bit of a look around, Click on the 10 free ones, see what you're getting into before jumping in head first. [00:10:42] Speaker B: And a really good feature I think it has that, that's absolutely critical for some landscape and especially wilderness photographers. And we'll get to the differentiation between those two terms in A minute. But is the ability to work offline on the app? Yeah, I think that's really handy because often, you know, where you guys are heading, there's not a lot of signal. Sometimes, you know, sometimes you're above the cloud, sometimes you're deep in the thick of wilderness, and there's just no signal. So it's great that you can just download it. I think that's really smart playing. [00:11:09] Speaker C: Yeah. So each location obviously comes with Google Map coordinates. So what you do is in the app, you just press directions and it will just automatically open it in Google Maps and it would have sent you that. That's pretty cool. [00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. [00:11:25] Speaker A: Okay. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Interesting. [00:11:26] Speaker A: All right, well, now that we've got the ad out of the way. No, I'm kidding. That wasn't an ad. We genuinely like. We. We generally want to find out a bit more about this app. So can you just tell anyone that's listening that might not be familiar with the work, your work in 60 seconds or so, like, who you are and what you're known for in the world of photography? [00:11:51] Speaker C: 60 seconds, that's pretty hard. Sure, I'll try. [00:11:54] Speaker B: You've already lost 10. You've already lost 10. 15. No pressure for me. [00:12:03] Speaker C: I think I'm quite well known for trying to document events that, you know, don't happen every so often from things like Aurora or Milky Way placement and things like that. I was. I blew up a little bit when it came to the 20, 19, 2020 bushfires. I did a large series on that, and I went kind of around the world a little bit. So, yeah, things like that. I like to not follow, you know, follow the crowd. I don't do photography for other people. I do it for myself. It's. It's an art form. [00:12:39] Speaker A: It's. [00:12:40] Speaker C: That's why I got into photography in the first place. It was fun. [00:12:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:43] Speaker C: And, you know, I'm not going to. You know, there's people out there who put people in their photos, kind of like influencer images of them, you know, standing on a rock or something, at a lookout. That doesn't do it for me. I don't. I don't. You know, that's. I don't get that. [00:12:59] Speaker B: That's. Most of Justin's travel shots, honestly, whenever he travels, he's just all photos of him on a rock. Looking. Yeah, looking, you know, in their head at his. As his life. [00:13:09] Speaker A: And it's. It's funny because I've got no photos of me traveling, because when you're the photo, you know, what it's like when you travel and you're like, I'm the photographer so you don't ever get photo. You're like, ah, we got photos. [00:13:20] Speaker B: Quite a few of you later on there. [00:13:22] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Because I'm always like, I just want to take this photo. I think it would look better with the person, can you go stand on that rock? And she's like, okay. [00:13:30] Speaker B: Anyway, Samuel, I'm really keen to talk about the, your award winning, award winning image with Australian Geographic for Sorry, I've forgotten. Is it Our country burns. [00:13:43] Speaker C: My country burns. [00:13:44] Speaker B: My country burns. Thank you, Sorry. And I've read a few of your interviews around that because you've also got a piece in the Australian Museum website. You've got a piece in the Australian Geographic website and we'll link those below later for anyone that wants to go and check them out as well because they're definitely worth the read. Really amazing story. So you talked about your, you know, blowing up, interesting choice of words. Blowing up during the bushfire season. But you came face to face with a firestorm unexpectedly that once you got over the, the, the initial emergency of trying to save your family home and everyone that was there with you, you were then able to capture some images. But let's, let's just go back a little bit to that experience for you. You know in photography we often come across these happenstance, lucky times, lucky incidents, but coming face to face with an unexpected, unprecedented firestorm in what has been documented as one of the worst fire seasons for Australia. Like that was a horrific year and it literally felt like the country was on fire. Tell us about that experience as a, as a creative, you know, at what point in that emergency did you go oh actually you know what, I'm going to take some images of this now. Things are safe. But if you can just talk us through that experience a little. [00:15:03] Speaker C: Yeah. So the day was New Year's Eve 2019, so the 31st of December. And so that was my, on my parents property at a place called Palmer which is about 15, 20 minutes inland from Jervis Bay on the New South Wales south coast. And you know I, I'd lived there basically my entire life. We moved there to that property when I was in year two at school. So yeah, Mum and dad, they bought the land. They bought and they built the house and when, when they were building the house they had to, because it's a rural area, they had to build it to a certain spec for the, the house. So you know, things like double brick, triple glazed windows, sprinkler systems, the clearing of, you know, the bush around the house. So they designed the house in a way that was, you know, trying to be fireproof. You know, not everything can be fireproof, but they gave it their best shot. Now, you know, growing up in a rural area on, you know, in bushland and things like that, bushfires were always kind of a part of our life. We'd had bushfires before, but nothing. Nothing to the caliber of this. This one. So, yeah, the. Basically, the fire impacted us at around 1pm in the afternoon on that, on New Year's Eve. And kind of throughout the day, the morning, midday, you could hear this humming noise. And the best way I can kind of describe it is if you're sitting on the tarmac in a. In a plane and you're just about to kind of take off and the engines in the plane start to rotate and you get that kind of that humming noise on the outside of the plane. Yeah, that's kind of the best way I can kind of describe what the noise was. It was just kind of this kind of thing, and it built and built and built and got louder and louder and louder and louder throughout the day. And, you know, we couldn't really. We didn't really know what it was. We were like, oh, what's that? [00:17:26] Speaker A: You know. [00:17:27] Speaker C: Anyway, yeah, 1pm came around and then everything started to get dark, like really dark to the point where it was basically nighttime. You couldn't see more than, you know, five meters in front of you. And then the smoke kind of rolled in, so then you really couldn't see. You couldn't see it all. And, yeah, like I said, like, fires had been a kind of a part of our life. And so we were well prepared. We knew that that bushfire season, this is well and truly into that bushfire season. We knew that eventually it was going to hit us. Yeah, so we were prepared in that aspect. So we'd had, you know, Mum and Dad had always taught us, you know, what to do if we were all there. We had chosen to stay and defend our house. So we had a relatively, like, an idea. We had small fire pumps around the house in. In stations, and then everyone kind of had their little position around the house as the fire was coming. And yeah, so it obviously, everything went dark. The smoke rolled in. You can't really see more than 5 meters in front of you. And then you look up and there's these little dots and they look like stars and then they start falling and they're the embers. And then they hit the ground in front of you and then you go over and you. Well, I remember a few of us had like a mop and bucket and you go over and you'd stamp it out, snap out the embers. So it didn't kind of take fire. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:19:10] Speaker C: You know, that was fine for the first 10 and then you look up again and now there's. They've duplicated to 30 and then there's 30 on the ground and then 30 turns into 50 and 50 turns into 100 and 100 turns into 200. And then it gets to the point where you just can't stop it. It's literally raining embers around you. And you know, we don't have full firefighting outfits on. We've just got, you know, jeans and long sleeve shirt. Some of us had eye protection. Obviously I wear glasses and. Yeah, then everything just, everything around us was basically on fire with the embers kind of around on the ground. And then the southerly wind changed. So at the time the, the fire was burning from west to east towards the ocean. And then the southerly wind pushed it from south to north straight towards us. So if you walk out onto my parents back kind of backyard veranda and you look out, there's probably about 100 meter buffer between the house and the bush and then that's about 500 meters wide. So you can kind of look left and right 250 meters that way, 250 meters that way. And you've got this big kind of canopy of trees staring you in the face. And at that time we still couldn't really. You couldn't see flames. It was just the embers kind of creating flames in front of you. And once that southerly wind changed the. I'd give it probably five seconds if that you, you felt the hot air just smack you in the face. So you got this big gush of hot air and then the wind was just going like crazy. And the best way I can describe the hot air is when you're in the kitchen and you open up the oven door and you get that big waft of hot air hit your face. Same thing. So it just hit you in the face. And then five seconds later, the entire 500 meter stretch of bushland in front of us just went up like a, just like a tinderbox. It was just insane. Like, you know, you see social media and the news and things of, you know, bushfire emergency on the south coast and it's, you know, you see the videos of the people walking around with their Little garden hose putting a fire out, which is like the height of their knee. [00:21:42] Speaker B: Like. [00:21:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I'd give, I'd give anything for it to be like that. This thing was, you know, 50 meters high from what the trees are. And then it was spiking above the tree line another, you know, 10, 20 meters. So this thing's like 70 meters high. And like I said, we've got about 100 meters between us and the bush. When that happened, you just felt like you're melting. Like there is, there is. I can't describe how much heat was being pushed towards us, especially with that, the, the wind behind us. So basically what we did is I went, I was kind of situated on the left hand side of the house. I went round, ran around to the left with my mom and my brother and my dad were on the right. They went to the right and then my sister was also on the left as well. And basically I can remember running kind of around the corner of the house and then just being pulled and smacked up against the, the roller door, the front kind of garage door. And it was my mom, she grabbed me and pulled me in and pulled me up against the roller door. And I can kind of still visualize and remember kind of just seeing flames kind of licking the side of the house, knowing that that's, you still got 100 meter gap, buffer gap. That's how much that wind was kind of pushing it and arcing. So it was basically kind of arcing over the house at that point. She pulled me and she pulled me into the door in the garage door. And she basically was like, I can't breathe, I can't breathe. And then I was like, what, what are you talking about? And then, you know, things about fire. Fire loves oxygen. So this fire was so extreme that it was taking oxygen on like a 20 meter square, you know, scale at a time. So it was just eating the oxygen out of the air. And once she, when she said she can't breathe, probably about two breaths later, you. I just felt like I was choking, like I could not. You would, you'd breathe in and you'd go, oh, that's normal. You'd feel like the, the wind go past your lips and your teeth when you breathe in through your mouth. But it wasn't oxygen, it was just smoke. So it was such a strange feeling. You go like, like that and nothing works. You go, oh, I can't breathe. And then you do it again and you go, that's. Something's wrong. And then you do it again and then you go, okay. I mean, I'm in trouble here. Like, I can't breathe at all. So what we did at that point is we then kind of ran another, probably about 20 meters to our front door, which was open. And we got inside the house with, yeah, my, my sister was in there, obviously. My mum, me, our next door neighbors, they'd come over to our property as well. They were already around the front of the house, so they were already inside. And my brother's best friend, he was there in there as well. And I remember kind of just like sitting on the ground and looking up at my mum and she looked at, she looked at me. I'm the eldest of three and it's something I'll never forget. And it's. It's so haunting. Then it's like, you know, when I tell this story, I've told this story so many times over the years, usually if mum's in the room, she's already in tears. But I remember her looking down at me and saying, we've made the wrong decision to not leave. [00:25:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:17] Speaker C: But, yeah, and it was just so, like, graphic and it kind of gives me goosebumps still thinking about it. Yeah. And at that stage, my brother and my dad weren't in the house with us. So she was basically telling me and my brother's best friend, she goes, you need to go out there and you need to find your father and your brother. Because at this stage I'm thinking, oh, they're dead. There's no way they're surviving that. [00:25:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:43] Speaker C: Especially if they ran. Right. There's no cover. It's just open, really. So I was like, okay. And I can remember turning back around and looking out the back door into the backyard and hearing these little ting, ting, ting, ting noises. And it was the embers basically just hitting the glass. So it looked like it was raining outside, but it was just raining fire on the, on the house. And once that had kind of calmed down a bit, because you've got to remember, like, the way a fire works is it travels obviously through an area and then everything behind it's burnt. So there's not really any danger after the fire's gone through. So we basically stayed in the house for 5, 10 minutes until everything kind of calmed down and the fire had passed through and continued to burn elsewhere. And I remember going out the front door and I said to my brother's best friend, he goes, I'll go left, you go right. Because we didn't know where they were. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:48] Speaker C: And yeah, I went right, ran around there and there was. I couldn't find anyone, could see anything because there's that much smoke in the air. And then, yeah, he went left and he found them and yeah, they survived. I still don't know how to this day, but basically my dad told me that he pinned himself up against this metal wall between the shed and him and just put the hose on himself and kind of lifted up his shirt and kind of formed a bit of an air pocket in there to kind of breathe. [00:27:18] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. [00:27:19] Speaker C: And then my brother, he lent down behind one of the water tower stations that we have where you can put them on the back of a ute. So you've got like a small water tank on the back of a ute with a pump. You can drive it around and then you can get out and fight the fire. So he kind of leant down behind that thinking, well, there's water in this. If it explodes, at least it's going to cover me in water. So, yeah, they survived. And then probably another 20 minutes later, we've all kind of regrouped and we're all still kind of just watering down the house because it's, you know, there's embers still flying everywhere from the trees. All the trees are still kind of burning, but they're not on complete fire. So, yeah, we were all kind of back at our stations, kind of just watering down the house. And mum comes up to me, taps me on the shoulder and says, and still to this day, I think to myself, that was not the best parenting decision in my. [00:28:13] Speaker A: In. [00:28:13] Speaker C: In the. [00:28:14] Speaker B: In. [00:28:14] Speaker C: In the. I wouldn't have done that. But anyway, she taps me on the shoulder and she says, go and take a photo. I was like, oh, you sure? Like, what else? You don't want me to help with something else? Like, I'm not thinking about photography. I'm thinking about, you know, yeah, saving. Saving my family, saving the neighbors, saving my brother's best friend. Our pets were inside at the time. All those things. You're not, you know, all your. All your belongings and things like that. I'm still in survival mode of, you know, you've got. We've got to save the house. We've got to put as much water on the house as possible. Anyway, she taps me on the shoulder and she says, yeah, go and take a photo. And I'm like, okay, sure, why not? So I ran inside. The camera was thankfully charged, SD cards already in it. And, yeah, then I took the camera and the tripod and ran into the burning bush. And as you do? Yeah, as you do with. Yeah, just embers and things and flames still going on around me. And I'm thinking, you know, how, what, what am I doing? Like this is stupid. And then I remember running past these kind of, these two logs which kind of pointed, straightforward and I looked at it and then kept running and then probably about, about 10 meters and then I turned around and walk, kind of ran back and I was like, no, that's, there's a shot there. Put the camera down with the kind of, the tripod legs extended quite low. And that image was taken in, I think the XF data says that it was taken at about 3pm so that whole ordeal with the fire lasted us about two hours. Yeah, that was taken probably 20, 30 minutes after the fire came through and. [00:29:58] Speaker B: Amazing. [00:29:59] Speaker C: Yeah. So that's 3pm in the afternoon and settings wise it's 25 seconds long without obviously without filters. So you can kind of gauge how dark it must have been. [00:30:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:13] Speaker C: And you know, that's what it looked like. It was orange, it was dark. It was. Yeah, it was crazy. And you've got all these embers down the bottom of the image. They're bouncing towards me. They're bouncing off my camera, my tripod, my boots. [00:30:28] Speaker B: And. [00:30:29] Speaker C: Yeah. So I took probably five or six of that exact scene. I can actually, I can remember focus stacking it which is just crazy. It's like I've got to focus stack this. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Yeah, no hurry. I think what's interesting, what's interesting here is the lengths you've gone to to capture an award winning photo. I mean most of us, you know, we don't go to that much effort to get, to get to an award winning photo. [00:30:57] Speaker A: But. [00:30:58] Speaker B: Phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. [00:31:01] Speaker A: It's actually interesting too that you mentioned. Yeah, like focus stacking and a 25 second exposure. And this is just me. Like my background is not a landscape photographer. It's just not something I've ever been good at. I'll take pictures of nature when it looks nice, but I, I'm not good at it. You know, my, if, if, if I was in that situation, I'd like to think if, if I had the composure to take an image during that after that ordeal, I would have just been going to my Safe settings, like 320th of a second, you know, enough depth of field that I can get something in focus and then just increase the ISO to compensate for whatever just been taken. Photo, photo, photo, photo, photo. Okay, I'm done. Yeah. Then running away, you know, like I just. Yeah, that I think that's. It speaks to your competency in your landscape photography that you knew how you wanted to go about this image and it would require, you know, a shutter speed of that length and stuff like that, because, like I say, I would have just defaulted to, like, what's a safe photo that. [00:32:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:07] Speaker B: But also doing this within. Within, you know, moments after just surviving one of the country's worst ever bushfires to. And, you know, full credit to your mum. She obviously, you know, mums are very special. They, they can. They, they kind of assess danger constantly. It's, it's just wired in. And she obviously felt comfortable enough to say, hey, we need to document this. I need you to go out there and do this because, you know, we may not have that chance again. [00:32:36] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I was just going to say, is there any chance that as you ran off into the burning bush to take the photo, she was thinking, I meant from the veranda, you know, like, what is. I meant stay here and take a photo. Not over there. [00:32:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it is the, the image. And now this went on to win the Australian Geographic. We knew the Australian Geographic Prize was it. That was for Landscape Shot of the Year or Photographer of the Year. It was nature photography. [00:33:09] Speaker C: That was. Yeah, that was overall winner. [00:33:11] Speaker B: Yep, yep, yep. [00:33:12] Speaker A: And that was 20. 20, 2023. Yeah. [00:33:17] Speaker B: You know, I, I don't know about you, Justin, but I remember though, at that time, I. Just before the big bushfire, I was in Wangaratta for a weekend with a mate and he was a, he was a CFA fiery and on call, and I remember him having his boots and gear, everything just by the door, ready to step into, like the, the, the, the fireproof overalls were already in, the boots ready to go. You know, he just had to pull it on, zip it up and out he went. And just how dangerous that felt being there. It was, it was a bit smoky, but it wasn't anything like this. And then later, being back in Melbourne, you know, the sky turned orange for a couple of weeks after these fires or during these fires and, you know, for city folk, that felt precarious enough. But to be. Having just survived this experience, I'm getting goosebumps. But having just, you know, survived this experience, this extreme experience, which must have been very harrowing and scary for everyone involved to then go and, you know, you fell back on your skill set, you fell back on your knowledge, on your muscle memory of how to compose a shot. And, and you should be congratulated for that. You know, recently, more and more, I've Been talking to photographers about the experience of photos that we take. You know, the photo is the end product, but what did it take to get there? You know, you talk to landscape photographers that hike a mountain for two days and then set up a tripod and they wait, you know, two more days for the right weather. And, you know, that. That feels extreme. But, you know, this. The experience behind this photo must be, you know, very etched very deeply in your memory, I imagine. [00:34:52] Speaker C: Yeah. And then, you know, from that, I took the end image. I didn't even end up focus stacking. That's just a single image after all that. I didn't even use it. But the thing, like, I remember taking kind of, you know, like what Justin said, like, going to safe settings, like, you know, having kind of that, you know, I shoot everything manual, but I did have kind of a safe setting to go to and went click. And that kind of froze everything in this. In the scene. And then I thought, no, I'm going to get creative here. I'm going to slow the shutter down and I'm going to get the embers bouncing through. Yeah, yeah. And I. Because. Because I remember looking down and seeing the embers around my boots and thinking, now that's going to be cool because it's going to be like, obviously, like a long exposure, and they're going to, like, form little lines, like little light trails. So I remember kind of doing that and going, yeah, this will be interesting. I want to know what this looks like. And I still can't, like, even speaking about this. It just. It just does. It sounds insane. Like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Why are you getting creative in the middle of a bushfire? [00:35:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:00] Speaker C: And then, yeah, once I took that, I took. Like I said, I took about five or six frames, three of them being a free poker stack. Then I walked back through the front door, and my leather boots that I was wearing at the time completely fell apart. So all the glue in them melted completely. [00:36:17] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:36:18] Speaker C: Yeah. So I walked back in with, like, boots on, but the bottom was just my socks. [00:36:23] Speaker B: Oh, God. [00:36:24] Speaker C: And I said to mom, yeah, I don't think I can go out and take any more photos now. She's like, yeah, that's fine. [00:36:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Anyone that's watching or listening along, either live with us now or. Or later on down the track, head to Sam. We'll pop some links in the. In. In the description later. But head to Samuel's website, have a look at the image, because seeing it through the Internet doesn't do it. Justice. And it's phenomenal. Phenomenal moment in time and again. You know, the, the experience and the story behind it is so compelling and powerful. It's not just you rocked up, you know, after the fire had passed through and you, you actually lived it and survived it. So I think that's, that's pretty phenomenal. That's words, to be honest. [00:37:09] Speaker C: I can remember getting. I got the phone call from winning the Ozgeo Award and I was at, I was at my work at the time and it came up unknown number. And I never, never ever answer calls that comes up, you know, unknown number or just. [00:37:27] Speaker A: Nor should you. Nor should you. Good choice. Never. You do not. [00:37:31] Speaker C: Never ever. And I thought to myself, I don't. [00:37:34] Speaker B: Know what it was. [00:37:34] Speaker C: I just picked it up and said, oh, you know, hello, this is Sam speaking for some random reason. And then it was this bloke, can't remember his name. He was like, this is such and such from South Australian Museum. And he'd said to me, look, I'm really excited to announce that you've taken out this year's overall prize for the image My Country Burns. And I basically just wanted to cry, like, Yeah, I. It wasn't like at the end of the day, like, you know, like a photography awards. A photography award, you know. [00:38:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:10] Speaker C: You know, that's great and all, but for me it was about just showing people that photo. Like, I just wanted people to see it. I just wanted people to try and understand it and you know, throughout your career, if, you know, if you're entering something like Ozgeo, I just, I was like, you know, if I was ever to take out that award, I want it to be for that image. And it. When that happened, like I said, I just basically I do. I remember breaking down in the background at work just thinking, you know, like, wow, I was just so excited that so many people were going to see that photo. Yeah. And I'd be able to explain it to more people and you know, what we went through. So, yeah, just. It was just such an incredible. And then I remember ringing my mom and my dad and my now wife at the time. Well, she was my girlfriend back then and it was just, I think all of them, they all just got emotional as well of, you know, we all went through this horrible experience and then to have something good from the other end of it. Yeah, yeah, it was just, oh gosh. [00:39:22] Speaker B: I'm breaking out and goose pimples everywhere. [00:39:27] Speaker A: When did you, when did you first present the image to the public in any way? So obviously this, this happened in 2023 or when, when did this get announced? In mid 2023, was it? [00:39:42] Speaker C: Or are you talking about the Ozgeo. [00:39:44] Speaker A: The Ozgeo Award. Sorry. Yeah. [00:39:46] Speaker C: So yeah, that, that happened in August of 23. I won that. But that image. Yeah, I released that image probably it was like three or four days later. [00:39:58] Speaker A: Okay, so you didn't, you didn't sort of hold, hold back on it for a while? Because that's what I was. I was interested to know whether there was any thoughts around that in terms of like, you know, do you try and get it out there quickly in terms of it people being interested because it's a, you know, a current, current thing that everyone's just, just been through and they might like. It's, it's obviously a great time to show people that image to be like, hey, this is just what we went through. Or I wasn't sure whether, or maybe whether you held onto it for a while for whatever reason. [00:40:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:30] Speaker C: So a lot of my, like current work with my photography and even during that time I wasn't like, I was shooting stuff and then I was releasing it probably, you know, six to eight months later. And I remember showing my mum, mum and dad the photo on the back of the camera and she was like, you need to go and put that out there right now. Yeah. And I was like. And I remember kind of having a hesitation towards it. I was like, no, I'll get to it eventually. But yeah, looking back, it was definitely kind of the right decision to put it out there. [00:40:59] Speaker B: It was timely, wasn't it? [00:41:00] Speaker C: Yeah. It's an event that's currently happening. [00:41:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember at the time a friend of the show, Greg Carrick, I might have these details wrong, but he went after the fires had passed through somewhere near him and he took some shots of burning trees and you know, decimated like forest, but then some new growth popping through. And I'm fairly sure he the won award or it was on the news, his images. But again, yeah, compelling because it's, you know, we get a, we get a filtered version here in the city of what takes place when there's something catastrophic like that happening. You always get a filtered version of everything. But to see something so raw and to hear the story behind it, I think that's, I think that's where, you know, this piece becomes art because there is such a big story behind it. There's such a big experience. It wasn't just that you showed up as a reporter or you were curious or you drove into the area even though you probably shouldn't have, like you were there, you know, I think that's just phenomenal. That's a really amazing story to tell and one that we're glad that you're here to tell, you know, because it obviously got pretty, pretty hairy there at the moment at times. You know, I can't imagine what that was like. Yeah, I do have a gear question. We usually gear talk until a little later in the show. But I do have a question about this image, if you don't mind me hijacking that one. [00:42:20] Speaker A: Justin, go for it. [00:42:22] Speaker B: What. What camera and lens did you use to, to take this, this award winning shot? [00:42:28] Speaker C: Yeah, so that's. It was taken on a 5D Mark IV with a 16-35 f4 lens. Sorry, Justin, I'm not, I'm not a Canon shooter anymore. [00:42:41] Speaker A: I know. I, and I was like, I was like, he's. He's switched to Sony. But the most famous image maybe. [00:42:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:50] Speaker A: With Canon. I'm just saying might be time to look into switching back. [00:42:54] Speaker C: That's a. [00:42:57] Speaker A: I'm kidding. It's. So you had, you switched to Sony at that point? I think I saw somewhere maybe that you had. Did you have a Sony kit at this time but. Or you hadn't yet switched? [00:43:08] Speaker C: I think I had one Sony body at the time and I was adapting lenses. Right. [00:43:15] Speaker A: You're in the process. [00:43:17] Speaker C: Yeah, but I, when I walked into the room to get the camera, I just saw the camera attached to the lens and just went bang. I don't care. [00:43:25] Speaker B: Old Faithfuls. [00:43:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. You got to go with whatever's ready to go. [00:43:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Very, very interesting. And 16 to 35. [00:43:33] Speaker B: What? [00:43:34] Speaker A: I wanted to ask a question that's not really photographic in nature, but I'm just interested and people might be interested, especially if they're not as familiar with bushfires. Maybe if they're listening from the other side of the world somewhere or just more of a city dweller like Greg. He's probably a bit more familiar with it though because it's been a staple talking point in Australia. The decision to stay and defend versus saying defend a home or property versus to leave. And I think it gets talked about a lot in bushfire season and usually in the way of if you are going to leave, you need to leave early, get out of there. Because if you stay until the last minute and then decide to leave, it's probably the most dangerous thing you can do as opposed to. So your decision to stay and Defend was for. For what reason? Was it because you guys felt like you had. You had the plans and preparation for your property to look after it, but if you left, it would likely have. Not that the house would not have survived. [00:44:44] Speaker C: Look, like I said, like, in the past we'd had bushfires. You know, we'd done the whole stay and defend thing before. [00:44:51] Speaker A: Okay. [00:44:52] Speaker C: Yeah. And. But this thing was just on a whole new level. It was like I said in the past, it was just, you know, up to your waist, maybe your knee just crawled along the ground. You'd walk out there with a hose and you put it out. That's it. But this thing just. The whole. The whole atmosphere exploded. [00:45:12] Speaker B: Yeah. What was the term? I read the term, but I cannot for the life of me pronounce it properly. Yes. [00:45:20] Speaker C: So that's basically like. [00:45:21] Speaker B: Like a. Like a fire cloud, isn't it? It's just moving through atmosphere. [00:45:26] Speaker C: Yeah. So. So it's called a pyroculeonimbus. And what it is, is it's the fire gets so hot and so extreme that it creates its own weather system. So the updraft of hot air combines with the cold from. [00:45:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:40] Speaker C: And basically almost creates like a mini like tornado type thing. So it creates its own storm above it. And then what happens is the lightning that is formed from the storm then creates new fires ahead of it. So it's just a. It's just. Yeah, it's just this force. You know, you could have put 100 fire trucks in front of that thing and it wasn't stopping. It was just. Yeah, it. It's. It. It was just the most extreme of the extreme. And I guess. [00:46:09] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:46:10] Speaker C: Oh, sorry. So after that photo was taken, I was. I kind of. Obviously I went back to the house and then I was with my family. And then we heard this huge boom, this big explosion. And it was up to the left of our house and there's no one next to us, so there's no properties next to us. So we were like, well, what's that? [00:46:36] Speaker B: And then. [00:46:36] Speaker C: So what we did is we went for a walk to go and figure out what that is like. Well, there's nothing, you know, there's no. There shouldn't be any gas bottles or anything like that up that way because there's no one. No one lives there. It's just bushland. So we thought, oh, you know, it might be a car or something that someone's left there. So we went for a walk. I put on new shoes. [00:46:57] Speaker B: Good. [00:46:57] Speaker A: Good choice. [00:46:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Went for a walk and we came across a fire truck, which had completely burnt out, was completely exploded. [00:47:11] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:47:11] Speaker C: And, yeah, so it was just me and my siblings. So it's just me, my brother, and my sister. And I remember my brother kind of picking up my sister and kind of throwing her at me. And as he did that, he kind of came around me and kind of gave me a bit of like a kind of like this weird awkward hug type thing. And he said in my. Like, in my ear. He kind of whispered it to me. He was like, take her. I don't know what's in this. As in, like, you know, he's gonna. Yeah, he's gonna go and have a look. Yeah, he's gonna go and see what's in this truck. And he doesn't want my sister to obviously see it. So take her, because I'm not sure what's in there. So, yeah, he walked up and he kind of jimmied open the door. And then there was just. There was just a bunch of kind of half smoldering helmets in there, but there was obviously no. No bodies or anything. So we were like, thank goodness. [00:48:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:12] Speaker C: And, yeah, the. The whole thing was just. All just exploded. We put the helmets out and we took them back to our house. And then probably about two months later, the. One of the commanders from that unit, his name was Jasper, he came knocking on our door with his fiance. And I think he was just after someone to talk to, someone to, you know, who wanted to experience what he went through. So, yeah, he came and knocked on our door, and he was like, oh, I was in the truck that exploded about 100 meters up the road from you guys. And, yeah, we had a. We sat down, had a bit of a chat to him, and we were like, I think we've got your helmets. So, yeah, we gave him back his. His unit helmets. [00:49:01] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:49:02] Speaker C: And, yeah, Justin, I've actually, that. That video. [00:49:06] Speaker A: The video is. Okay, hang on. [00:49:08] Speaker C: Yeah, so the video is of them in the truck, which is. Was taken about 100 meters from our front, front gate. [00:49:14] Speaker A: It's of the. [00:49:15] Speaker C: Of that exact truck, of that truck before it exploded. So what happened is they got caught in the flames, waited for the. For the fire to go past them, and then this is obviously when the fire is around them. And then they got out and then walked out probably 10 minutes later. And then after that 10 minutes, the truck exploded. [00:49:35] Speaker A: Oh, my God. So it didn't explode during the initial. Like, when the initial fire come across. It was just a little bit after that, after they'd already yeah. [00:49:44] Speaker C: So they're meant to withstand a fire so they. They can catch fire and things like that. Obviously got like sprinkler systems and things on them. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:52] Speaker C: So, yeah, this is a video of them going through when the fire is on their door. And then. Yeah, they waited about five, 10 minutes, then they got out, left. And then another 10 minutes later, the fire, obviously the truck had caught fire and then it exploded about 10 minutes later. [00:50:08] Speaker B: Wow. I'm gonna play it on. Unsealed Haynes Road near. Now embers cascade down fire off to the left that they can't outrun on the road. Already it storms closer. The radiant heat almost unbearable. Suddenly, it's like driving through hell. [00:50:36] Speaker A: Look at that. [00:50:37] Speaker B: Fire truck has no sprinkler safety system. They are beyond vulnerable. Flashover. The air so hot, everything explodes. This is life or death. [00:50:49] Speaker A: Yeah. It's on both sides of the road. [00:50:51] Speaker B: The cabin could have been a coffin. [00:50:53] Speaker C: When we were in there, in. In the thick of it, we thought. [00:50:57] Speaker A: Hang on, let me just. [00:50:58] Speaker B: Gosh, is that a young lad too, isn't he? [00:51:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Look at the. So that. That was what you walked past? [00:51:06] Speaker C: Yeah. So we opened up the door. Well, my brother did. [00:51:10] Speaker B: Wow. [00:51:10] Speaker C: And it was obviously still kind of smoldering and on flames and stuff. [00:51:15] Speaker B: That's. [00:51:19] Speaker A: It's destroyed. [00:51:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:51:21] Speaker C: If you go. Just go a little bit more forward. There's a part with the reporters kneeling next to it and he's talking about the actual temperatures. I think it's. [00:51:30] Speaker B: Yeah, the brake lines melted and the wheel seized up. Our intake lines melt straw down. But it could have been so much worse. This was one of their trucks completely destroyed. It's believed the brake lines melted and the wheels seized up. How intense were the fires? [00:51:49] Speaker C: This is aluminium. [00:51:52] Speaker B: It melts at 600 degrees. But the firey say it was even hotter yesterday. That's like melted wax. This crew forced to abandon the 700, 000 fire truck, throw on breathing gear and flee. [00:52:05] Speaker C: It had got to a point where. [00:52:06] Speaker A: It was too dangerous to remain in the vehicle. [00:52:09] Speaker B: They abandoned their 700, 000 pumper, threw on breathing gear and raced to that truck. It was right on. [00:52:15] Speaker A: That's insane. [00:52:17] Speaker C: That, that. [00:52:18] Speaker A: So how far, like walking distance. How far would that have been from. From your place? [00:52:23] Speaker C: Oh, like 100 meters. 150 meters. [00:52:25] Speaker A: Oh, whoa. Okay. [00:52:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:52:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:52:29] Speaker B: So I've got a question for you. It may not be easy to answer. I guess it's situational, but, you know, in hindsight, would you have. Should you have left sooner, would you do it? Differently next time. [00:52:44] Speaker C: We've. Well, our family, we've had this conversation many times, you know, around the ground that we always. It always comes up around Christmas time because, you know, New Year's Eve, it's always. We always. Obviously everyone gets together around Christmas time and New Year's Eve. It always comes up. The fire and the subject of it, if, look, if it was present today and it was the exact same event, like my parents still live there. [00:53:11] Speaker B: Yep. [00:53:12] Speaker C: We all have said to our everyone that we would do it again. Reason being is we now know that, you know, that's the worst of the worst. It can't get any worse than that. So, yeah, knowing that, you know, we all came out the other side alive and knowing that. Yeah, that. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, it can't get any worse. A pyroculio nimbus firestorm where it's flashovering an area. So a flashover is basically the atmosphere gets so hot that if the fire's on this side, but the trees are on this side, the trees just explode on this side because of it. Of the atmosphere being so hot. Yeah. So, yeah. Short answer. I think, yeah, we would do it again just knowing that that is the worst of the worst and that we came out the other side of it. [00:54:03] Speaker B: Yep. Wow. Phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal. [00:54:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Crazy, crazy. And. And it become part of your. Your body of work as a photographer. Yeah, the. That and also the aftermath that you've got images of of sort of what. What it looked like afterwards and then some of the regrowth and that sort of thing which has become part of your. Your portfolio. [00:54:34] Speaker C: Yeah. So from then, probably like the month afterwards. Yeah, I looked. Obviously I turned to the camera again and yeah. Documented our backyard, I've always found, just documented taking photos in my own backyard really hard because you live there, it's not that interesting, but when an event like that happens, you kind of go, no, I've got to do something here. Yeah. And yes, for me, that event. Yeah, it hit me really hard. Out of everyone in, in our family, I was. Yeah, I. I went to counseling probably 30, 40 times throughout the next two years. [00:55:19] Speaker B: Wow. [00:55:20] Speaker C: It. Yeah, it hit me really, really hard. Especially, you know, if you ask my wife, you know, it was. I was a different person. It was. It was very scary. Even still to this day, I've kind of, you know, the smell of smoke, you know, I don't like it. It's never. It's never ever going to be the same for me. [00:55:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:44] Speaker C: It's just the little things, especially like Even like I said, the oven door. When you open up the oven door and get the hot air, I've got a conscience, like constantly think about, okay, I'm opening up an oven door, there's going to be heat hitting me because if I don't, I just kind of, I can freak out. I just, I lose it. I just, it doesn't sit well with me. [00:56:05] Speaker B: What's ptsd? [00:56:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so, yeah, I got diagnosed with that and I've been obviously going through that ever since. But yeah, now these days, you know, I'm a whole, whole lot better. [00:56:21] Speaker B: That's great to hear. But because I wanted to ask you just, just, just does, you know, given. Given the popularity and the fame that the image attracted for you, does that, did that hinder that recovery process for you, that, that coming to terms with what had happened because you were constantly having to tell the story. Sorry, we've just made you tell it again. Yeah, but you know what I mean. Or did that, did that form part of your therapy to talk about the experience and focus on the positive that came out of it was that I took this image that my mum encouraged me to take and it got picked up and recognized. Where does that sit for you? [00:56:54] Speaker C: It's such a strange thing, the, like the human brain and how it works. So for probably six months after the event happened, all I could think about, obviously was the event and all I wanted to do was be back there. Like I wanted to relive it, which is such a strain. Like even now thinking about that, like, why would I want to do that? But that's where my brain was. It was. [00:57:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:21] Speaker C: And for some reason, I don't, I don't, like, I don't understand it as an aspect of, you know, no one died, nothing really bad happened or. But for some reason, yeah, my brain just wanted to go back there. I wanted to be there every day. I wanted to go back and apparently change something, but I don't know what I would have changed. It's such a strange, strange thing to think about. [00:57:46] Speaker B: It can do terrible things to the brain. [00:57:49] Speaker C: Yeah, it was, it's a very, look, it was a very, very scary time. Those kind of. Yeah, that six months to a year afterwards. But yeah, for me, telling the story that helped, you know, as someone who wanted to be back there and relive it, what you do is obviously you can't do that. So what you do. What I did is I just did so much research, you know, I went, you know, I new. I learned how to say Pyroculio, nimbus. [00:58:20] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:58:23] Speaker C: Like, yeah, yeah. I did so much research on that fire. How it happened, why it happened. I watched documentaries. I, you know, and for me, that helps. It's the. The whole event. It fascinates me still to this day. There's, you know, there's documentaries coming out about it and things. And, yeah, I'll watch them. I've got to prepare myself. I've got to go, okay. I've got to mentally go, okay, I'm watching this. This is what's happening. But I find it fascinating. And it's definitely. It helps. And it helps to tell the story and to tell, you know, talk about it and share it with other people. [00:58:58] Speaker B: I think it's important. I think, you know, talking through stuff is. Is something we don't do enough of. We never have as a society. But, you know, I mentioned earlier, I had a mate who was a fiery, who lived in Wangaratta, and he was out every day in those fires. And it was constantly, you know, I was way back here safe in South Yarra, in Victoria, in the city. And, you know, people were complaining about the. The smoke in the air and that the sky was orange, like, yeah, but my mate's up there. He's. He's trying to save lives and. And property, you know, and I remember checking in with him constantly because I was so worried that. Because it was such an aggressive fire season, like, it was absolutely bananas. But question for you. You talked about that compulsion to want to go back and almost relive it. Has it enticed you at all to go and photograph other fires, you know, afterwards or before or during or other events like that? Has it. Has it kind of sparked your interest to be a bit of a. Almost like how people do conflict photography in war zones. You know, there's something about that. That compulsion to go back and document what's actually happening to. Do you have that? [01:00:07] Speaker C: No, not necessarily. Not so much. I think to myself, you know, like, I had the opportunity to photograph it. I've got a body of work. I'm happy with the images. They're images that, you know, I don't think I'll ever be able to recreate ever again. Yeah, fingers crossed. But it's definitely motivated me to, you know, photograph different weather events, not so much fires, you know, things like, obviously the Milky Way, auroras, storms, raging seas, things like that. It's. It's definitely motivated me to. Yeah, to experience and see more of nature when it's. It's most extreme and kind of in your face. [01:00:51] Speaker B: Yeah, that's interesting. [01:00:53] Speaker C: Makes you feel alive. Yeah, yeah. [01:00:55] Speaker B: And is that the difference between landscape and wilderness photography? We, we get those two terms a lot here and sometimes it's hard to differentiate one from the other. But is that what makes wilderness photography? Is it, is it the extremities that makes it more wilderness photography over just landscape, or is there not really a difference? [01:01:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I think that wilderness is more, you know, you've got your tent and your backpack and you're going hiking for. You know, I've done things where I've been out in the wilderness for 10 plus days in like Tasmania. And yeah, for me, I think that is wilderness photography where, you know, there is no roads, there's no other people. It's. You're in the middle of nowhere. You've basically got your own life in your hands. If you don't know what you're doing, you know, you've got to find water, you've got to take your food, you've got to create, you know, you've got to cook your food, you've got to do all those types of things. You've got to have the navigation skills. [01:01:50] Speaker B: And shelter, all of that stuff. [01:01:52] Speaker C: Yeah, the shelter and. Yeah, all those types of things. I think that's what wilderness photography is. And that, yeah, ever since kind of, you know, I did some of that before the fire, but after the fire, that's definitely kind of been more on my radar, doing more wilderness stuff. But also, like I said, aligning things with, with weather events. Yeah, if that's storms or you know, big oceans or things like that. [01:02:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it's interesting. Sorry, Jay, you go. I've spoken too much. [01:02:24] Speaker A: Never, Never. No, I just, I'm just interested in this, in the way that it's. This event's transformed your work and obviously it's, it's transformed it in that you're looking for sort of more. Not, I guess extreme is definitely a word, but also just like unique or fleeting or hard to capture weather events, you know, is it that. Is it that sense that like, I don't just want to do. Is there any thought of. I don't just want to go and make a pretty landscape photo that I know I could probably do most days. I want to seek out something that's more elusive, harder to. Harder to capture, harder to find, you know, because it's even auroras and things like that, you know, like, is it, is it that or you're looking for things that are not something, not something that you can think in Your head. Oh, yeah. I could go and make that photo sometime in the next week. You're looking for something that's more of a. You know, this happens once a year, this happens once every five years. These sort of unique situations. Is it that? [01:03:34] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's about. For me, it's about, you know, not, you know, following the crowd, not being, you know, that the sheep in the flock. You know, there's. I think. I'm not sure if I touched on it before, but, you know, I don't. I didn't do photography for people. I do it for me. I do it because I want to experience those moments. I want to photograph those things. And, yeah, like, you know, what Greg said prior about, you know, having the story. I love being. Like, when people post on, you know, Facebook, Instagram or on their website, I love sitting down and reading about an image, what. What they did, how they did it, where they went, what they felt, things like that. I love a backstory and, you know, with those special weather events that you get, majority of the time, you're going to have a story behind it or you're going to have maybe multiple failed attempts or things like that. So, yeah, for me, I do love a story. I love the background behind it and, you know, what went into it as a photographer. [01:04:45] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:04:46] Speaker B: And I can see that in your work. You know, I think I'm trying to find the best word to describe the beauty of your images. I think there's a. There's a restlessness in the Australian landscape that you've captured remarkably well. You know, there's the serenity and there's beauty, but there's also. There's stories there about how these, you know, unique rocks along the coast, how they formed. You can. Your images kind of. Kind of capture that restlessness of the planet. And I think that's. That's quite amazing. And it creates a signature style, a unique style for you and I think that shows through in all of your images, to be honest. [01:05:24] Speaker C: Thank you. [01:05:25] Speaker A: This one, this one, like when you're sort of scrolling around your website and clicking through various things, you see this. And this caught my attention immediately. [01:05:35] Speaker C: Yep. [01:05:37] Speaker B: Really interesting, Interesting play with the monochrome. [01:05:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. What's the story behind this? [01:05:43] Speaker C: So that was taken at like 3am, probably two hours from home. I'd been tracking the storm all afternoon into the night. And then the image is called Crawlers, which. There's a diff. There's a certain type of lightning. And they. The lightning, when it strikes, it doesn't just necessarily go straight down. It will go down and out so that there is just one image at like 20 seconds or something. And yeah, it just kind of spiders everywhere, kind of crawls everywhere. And yeah, that, the. I remember kind of taking that shot and then going, oh, this will be the last one. I've got to go, I've got to go. Because that, that storm was out at sea and then there was another one coming towards me behind me thinking, well, I'm gonna get trapped here in a second because I'm gonna have another lightning storm on top of me. And just kind of remembering going, okay, looking at the back of the camera going, yeah, that'll do. And then leaving and then getting to the car and then this is lightning everywhere. [01:06:50] Speaker B: Yeah, that's phenomenal. [01:06:53] Speaker A: And so this would have been. When, when was this taken? Do you know roughly? [01:06:57] Speaker C: This was 2000, I want to say 19. If you go back, it's got it in the image title. There you go. [01:07:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:04] Speaker B: Oh, there you go. [01:07:05] Speaker A: Okay. Have you, have you done much of that style of photography recently? Storms, lightning, that kind of thing? [01:07:16] Speaker C: Not. No, not too much. I think my most recent one of storms was probably taken in 2023. A lot of like, look, a lot of my recent, more recent work, storm wise, has been like the aurora storms that have happened. But yeah, not so much lightning and stuff. [01:07:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Some of your aurora shots. We talked before we went live about the horse head rock aurora shot. That's just pure magic. It really is. [01:07:46] Speaker A: Let's have it. Let's have it. [01:07:47] Speaker B: Yeah, let's, let's have a crack at that one. [01:07:49] Speaker A: This one? [01:07:50] Speaker C: Yeah, there three. Yeah, there's three. I did three different versions. [01:07:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it was just stream to get just. I just want one aurora shot. Yeah, you've got three versions of a. [01:08:01] Speaker B: Horse, but the, the reflection in the pond in the, in the rock pool in the foreground, it just. And the way that the line leads you, you know, it leads you to Horsehead Rock. It's, it's. Yeah, yeah, it's just pure sorcery. Well played. Thank you. [01:08:19] Speaker A: I want to talk us through it. Oh, sorry. I just, I was just interested to find out about this, this particular shot. Like. [01:08:26] Speaker B: Let's do that. [01:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah, Tell us about just settings, that kind of stuff. Just, just and, and about how you went about managing to get it. [01:08:36] Speaker C: So I'm, Yeah, obviously I've recently got married. I'm now located in Canberra and I could see that the obviously the aurora forecast was looking quite good. This was taken probably maybe about A month ago now. And obviously what you do is you obviously track the, the forecast and then you kind of work out, you know, okay, it should hit at this time. There's no guarantees. And then you obviously check the weather. Where is it going to be? Clear skies. And I found that obviously the Sapphire Coast, Naruma Bermagui, Mystery Bay, that area on the New South Wales south coast was looking good. So yeah, I made the trip down, booked a hotel and yeah, scrambled around there just before sunset. [01:09:25] Speaker B: Did you hear that, Justin? You have to leave the house to get an Aurora shot. [01:09:29] Speaker A: I still don't believe that. I think I can do it. [01:09:32] Speaker B: Sorry, I, I interrupted. [01:09:35] Speaker C: Yeah, scrambled around there and yeah, as the sun. Like I can remember looking at like my phone and seeing the settings of like the, the settings, the, the forecast for the aurora. And it was like as the sun set, the exact minute everything just erupted like on the, on the application, on the app. And I'm thinking, can it just go dark? It needs to go dark and it's the dark. What's it doing? [01:09:59] Speaker B: Hurry up, hurry up. [01:10:00] Speaker C: Yeah, and then probably like 20 minutes after sunset on the back of the camera, it's still kind of daylight, but you can see these like pink pillars already on the back of the camera. [01:10:10] Speaker B: It was just. [01:10:10] Speaker C: And then it just went crazy like after, like when it fully went dark and then kind of. Yeah, scrambled around, took about three or four compositions. And I'm definitely the type of person who doesn't. So I don't like taking, like I'll take heaps and heaps of compositions, but I don't like, like editing and releasing, you know, heaps of the same event. Yeah, if that makes sense. Like if you do like a sunrise and you know, you take like five or six different compositions, I'm not someone who's going to release all six or most of the time I'm just going to pick one that's my favorite and the best composition and just release that. But for this, like, you know, it was such a special event and it was such a, you know, like never in my wildest dreams would I have thought of getting Aurora over Horsehead Rock. [01:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Matt Palmer just dropped a comment in the chat that said, that's pretty special. Don't get Auroras like that in that northerly location often. [01:11:13] Speaker C: Yeah. So I just thought to myself, nah, I've got, I've got to do more than one. And it was, it was hard to, hard to choose which was my favorite. So I just thought, now let's do all of Them. [01:11:25] Speaker A: You can't, you can't leave images like that. [01:11:27] Speaker B: Just pretty hard to. [01:11:29] Speaker A: Sitting on a hard drive. [01:11:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. They deserve to be seen. [01:11:34] Speaker A: Let's talk about the. The app. The Not. Not your map app. The app used to track down Auroras. [01:11:43] Speaker B: So you're blaming the app. [01:11:44] Speaker A: I'm blaming the app. You mentioned the forecast. What are you watching, like when you're on a Aurora alert, like, what are you keeping an eye on? Their groups that you're part of is there. And there's the app that everyone recommends to use that is extremely difficult. What app do you use? [01:12:02] Speaker C: Yeah, so I'm. Hold on, I'll just double check on my phone. I'm running a couple of different ones. There's one that's just called Aurora. There's also another one called Aurora Alerts. And then the big one's Glendale, which is. It's really, really overwhelming. As soon as you open it up, there's just lots of numbers and lots of, you know, like the, the current Aurora levels and there's all types of things. There's also another one called Space Weather Live, that's another good one. But basically what I'm looking for is I've got alerts on my phone. [01:12:39] Speaker B: For. [01:12:41] Speaker C: Glendale and Space Weather Live. You can get alerts, you can turn them on for if any flares are released from the sun. So things like an X flare or an M flare, which is basically how, you know how large the kind of eruption on the sun is. And then you've got to hope that it's facing, that it's Earth facing. It's a very, very, very kind of complicated thing and it's even really quite hard to explain. But yeah, obviously looking at that and then you kind of track it and then you can kind of gauge, you know, if there's an X flare on the sun, it's probably going to be a couple of days, probably two or three days before it'll hit Earth's atmosphere. And then you've obviously got to figure out, you know, where there's clear skies, if it's facing south, if you're in the southern hemisphere. And then. Yeah, another thing that people do. I'm a part of them as well. There's a couple of. Yeah, there's lots of kind of Facebook groups where they're. Yeah. Run by professional people who actually fully understand what they're talking about. And yeah, they're really good as well to kind of keep track of it and get a bit more of a better idea because, yeah, it is it's, it's very, very hard. [01:13:53] Speaker B: It is fascinating, though, that the, you know, the, the two disciplines of science and photography come together for these special shots. I think that's, that's amazing and very cool, you know, that your composition is reliant on a, on a, on a, on a solar eruption. [01:14:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:12] Speaker B: However many hundreds of thousands or millions of miles away, the Earth is like other. The sun is from the Earth. It's just crazy. [01:14:19] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It is. It's very, very kind of what I find fascinating is like something like this, this image here, for example. You. You scout a location. So you go, okay, I want to take a photo here. And then you've got to go, okay, is that south facing? Okay. Yes. And then you've got to work out, okay, is there going to be clouds there? And then when you get to the location, then you got to run around like a madman looking for different compositions. There's so many little, just little things that you chip away at that's got to come together to create an image like this. Like, me and two friends, we hiked up that mountain and yeah, it took us like two and a half hours with backpacks on to get there. [01:15:04] Speaker B: Yep. [01:15:04] Speaker A: Yeah. In the dark. Well, or in late, late evening, late after late afternoon. And then, then you can sit around for hours and nothing happens. Because even if the forecasts are all. Are all kind of all happening and stuff, it is quite common that you could just sit there and, and see nothing for hours and then give up. And then as you're walking back down the mountain, it starts. [01:15:29] Speaker C: Yeah. So there's like six different things that have got to kind of align for it. [01:15:35] Speaker B: Literally. The heavens have to align, don't they? [01:15:38] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's obviously the big one is cloud cover. [01:15:42] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a bane of all our existence, no matter what we're shooting. Very, very cool. Matt Palmer dropped another comment. Mount Amos isn't the easiest hike in the dark. No, I certainly wouldn't do it. [01:15:57] Speaker A: Probably not. [01:15:58] Speaker B: Mind you, I don't leave home in the dark, so, you know, maybe that's more about me. Anyway, I'm really keen to understand a little bit about your backstory. If we can just spend a few minutes on that, reading through your bio. You started photography in 2011. What came before that and what inspired you to pick up a camera? [01:16:21] Speaker C: So, yeah, my father, he used to kind of walk around with the camera when I was a little kid. Kind of remember him with old film cameras. He had a Pentax. It's actually in my room. [01:16:34] Speaker B: Got their old man's Pentax somewhere. [01:16:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:38] Speaker C: But yeah, that didn't like, I wasn't really inspired by that. I never was like, oh, I want to take photos or things like that. This I just have vivid memories of him taking photos when we were little kids and stuff. And yeah, what I kind of first did is probably in 2010 I would walk around and just take photos on like a, I think it was like an ipod, like the original ipod touch from Apple. And it was like had a camera. Yeah, like it was like terrible. I think it was the original. It might have been number two anyway. Yeah, it was terrible. I just remember kind of like taking photos and then I did art visual arts at school and yeah, kind of like I was really kind of liking taking photos and mum and dad, they bought a camera, little camera kit and a Canon 600D with us. [01:17:33] Speaker B: That was my first camera. [01:17:35] Speaker C: There you go, 18 to 55 and a 55 to 250. I think the kit. [01:17:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:46] Speaker C: And yeah, they satisfy. I remember mom and dad sitting us three kids down going look, we got this camera, it's digital, feel free to use it. There's nothing wrong with that. Just they had one rule and the one rule was don't put the camera in manual mode. And me being the eldest of three, I just completely obviously disobeyed. Mum and dad put the camera in manual mode and wanted to work out, you know, what's, what's this thing that has an F F stop and what's ISO and what's the shutter speed and all these types of things. And yeah, from there I just kind of just self taught myself. I worked out that if you, you know, back then like tutorials on YouTube weren't really like there was stuff out there. But you know, being quite young like I didn't even really think to do that. It was just, you know, I was just using a camera for fun. And then I, you know, I take a photo at like a lower F stop and then I take one at a higher F stop and adjust the settings and then work out, oh, okay, if it's at a lower F stop, not much is in focus. But then if I take it at a higher F stop things are in focus and then I'd work out, okay, what's ISO? Okay, so a lower ISO. Oh, you get a nicer image. Higher ISO. It starts to introduce this stuff called noise. And yeah, it was just this kind of this big journey of I remember going home from school every day in the backyard in the bush just running around taking photos on this camera. Then, you know, come home and show mom and dad look, it's at least photos, you know, they were probably horrible, but that's kind of what kicked it all off. And then fast forward probably two or three years I was just obsessed with taking photos and I would take photos of everything. Like I take photos of people, of sport, of animals obviously, landscapes, architecture, whatever, it just, it didn't matter. I just wanted to take photos. And then I remember it kind of became kind of a bad thing. Like I was just taking photos of everything and anything. And then I thought to myself, okay, what's the one kind of genre of photography I like the most? And yeah, landscapes kind of, you know, drew me. I was kind of drawn towards that. And I thought, no, what I'm going to do is I'm just going to focus solely on landscapes and try and get really, really quite good at it. And yeah, then I put all my effort just into that one genre. [01:20:16] Speaker B: And. [01:20:16] Speaker C: Then, yeah, that allowed me to, you know, previously when I went to the city, you know, I'd be taking photos of the, of the city of like, if I went to Sydney, Sydney, Sydney Harbour Bridge and things like that. And that kind of just allowed me to, you know, relax and not have to take photos of everything. So yeah, these days I just, obviously I'm just, I just do landscapes. And then another little rule I have for myself is I don't photograph anything man made. So if you go through my entire website, there's nothing on there which is man made. It's all just natural. It has to occur naturally. [01:20:56] Speaker A: Yep, interesting challenge. Except, well, I see a couple of photos of the moon here and if anyone is aware of the earth being flat, you will know that the moon is in fact a man made object. [01:21:09] Speaker B: That'S up just a Hollywood prop. [01:21:10] Speaker A: It's just a big wire. Okay, so you, yeah, that's a rule that you've made for yourself. And is that, is that something that you could ever see yourself breaking that rule? Is it just for now or is it something that you're, you're, you can't see yourself ever in the future going down that direction? [01:21:31] Speaker C: Yeah, like, I don't know, like something I've kind of slowly started to branch into which isn't anything man made? I'm really quite enjoying wildlife photography at the moment. That's kind of something, you know, I'm quite horrible at it. But it's, yeah, it's a fun little thing because, you know, another thing with landscapes is you know, they don't run away. The trees in the mountains don't run away, but all the wildlife does, so it's a lot harder. [01:21:54] Speaker B: I'm having the same problem with macro. [01:21:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:21:57] Speaker B: Anywhere. Plenty of flowers. [01:21:59] Speaker C: Yeah. So that's another little fun thing for me at the moment. But me and my wife, we just recently. Obviously, we got married recently and we went on our honeymoon. We went over to the Canadian Rockies for around eight weeks. [01:22:15] Speaker A: Wow. [01:22:16] Speaker C: And there was a emerald Lake, I think it's called. There's this. There was this hut, and it was kind of just getting on sunset, and they turned their lights on, and it was quite, like, magical. The light coming out of the hut was kind of an orangey color, and there was some nice color in the sky, and I just couldn't not take a photo of it, you know, So I took a photo of it. I'm not sure if I'll ever release it, but it's. That's kind of one of the only ones recently that I have. So. [01:22:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Does it count if you use AI to remove the hut? Does that. Does that count? You idiot. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. [01:22:58] Speaker B: Come on. [01:23:01] Speaker A: I know. I love that. I love that. It's a. It's a rule that. [01:23:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:05] Speaker C: That. [01:23:07] Speaker A: Informs your creative process. And it's not for any. Like, it's not an ethical rule. It's nothing like that. It's just something you've decided on and it helps narrow your focus, I think. [01:23:21] Speaker C: Yeah. So it. For me, it kind of. [01:23:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:24] Speaker C: Lets me kind of hone in on landscapes a bit more. Like, you can, you know, when it comes to landscape photography, you can kind of break it down into, you know, there's only a set kind of number of categories. So you've got obviously the, you know, seascapes, mountains, trees, waterfalls, abstracts and textures. And then if you want to, you could also break it off into, like, storms and like, astrophotography. But a lot of the time, like, astrophotography is going to fit into another genre. You know, you're going to go take photos of the aurora or the Milky Way at the beach or above the tree or a mountain. So, yeah, there's only so many kind of subcategories of landscape photography. So it's definitely. Yeah. It's made me kind of been able to focus in on those kind of subcategories a whole lot easier. [01:24:20] Speaker B: No, it's. It's a good way to do it, to have discipline about, like Justin said, what. What informs where you look and how you See the world. I think that's really powerful and I think a lot of people can, can learn from that. Speaking of learning, let's talk about your workshops. How's that for a sloppy segue, boss? [01:24:38] Speaker A: Love it, Love it. Cool. It's perfect. [01:24:40] Speaker B: So, Samuel, you run workshops. How long have you been offering workshops to people for? [01:24:47] Speaker C: So I kicked off my first workshop just after the announcement of Ozgeo. So August, October, September, around there of 2023 and then, yeah, half, about halfway through 2024. Yeah, I've been full time running landscapes and being a full time landscape photographer since then. And yeah, but it's, it's, it was never a, you know, when you pick up a camera in 2011 and you're a little kid, you never picked it up with the intention of running and making a living off landscape photography workshops. But yeah, now that it's happened and it's a thing. Yeah, I wouldn't look back. It's, it's, it's an incredible job. It's incredibly different from different people's jobs around the world. But yeah, it's, it's so much fun having, you know, your passion, a job, you know, it doesn't feel like work. [01:25:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I think it's one of the greatest things that we can achieve. Sometimes I say it's a bit of an obligation, but, you know, that depends on the person that we pass. We tell stories and we hand information down, we hand down skills so that others can flourish. So that, you know, we have a, we kind of cement the future of our craft. And I have huge respect for people that run workshops to share that. And yes, it's to help you make money, there's no doubt about that. But we live in a world that needs an economy, so no one's going to certainly hold that against you. But yeah, I think it's wonderful that you share this sort of image. Justin, you've got that page there for the workshops. Do you mind just bringing it up? [01:26:26] Speaker A: Sure. [01:26:26] Speaker B: On the screen. So you've already got a bunch of workshops that clearly are sold out. Sapphire Coast, Bateman's Bay, Jarvis Bay, Great Ocean Road heading down our way. And New Zealand South Winter Island. Has that, has that happened yet? That, that trip? [01:26:44] Speaker C: No, that's July, July next year. [01:26:49] Speaker B: And then you've got only a handful of spots left on Kiama for seascapes and another New Zealand south island in spring. [01:26:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:27:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:01] Speaker C: That's obviously had such a busy period recently. Was he getting married? We went on our honeymoon, then me and my wife went over to India for a friend's wedding. So yeah, I've had about probably two or three months off if you want to call it off work recently. So yeah, those ones were kind of, the ones that are sold out were kind of put together just before we went on our honeymoon. Adventures in India, around the world. So yeah, watch this space. I'll be releasing some more new ones hopefully in the new year. [01:27:40] Speaker B: So yeah, and, and obviously they're only small group workshops. They're like three to four participants. Very intimate. I guess people get more time, more of your time for guidance and support. It's wonderful. Sorry Justin, you're going to ask something. [01:27:55] Speaker A: Well, I just want to know about the first. When you decide to run your first workshop, what was that decision? Like what was the first workshop you ran and were you nervous? [01:28:08] Speaker C: Yeah, so when I kind of took out the Ozgeo, I released two. [01:28:17] Speaker A: Kind. [01:28:17] Speaker C: Of like about a week later I think I released the Jervis Bay one which my parents house is like yeah, 15 minutes from Jervis Bay. So you know, we grew up there my whole life. Know the beaches kind of like the back of my hand. So it was kind of a no brainer. And then yeah, Kiama, which is only, it's like 40 minutes up the road which is kind of where I taught myself how to do seascape and landscape photography. So yeah, I released those two and yeah, I was very nervous. You know, I never thought to myself like myself as a teacher, I never, I never wanted to be a teacher. Never wanted to, you know, be a high school teacher or anything like that. So yeah, it was, it was very, very, you know, it was quite nerve wracking and you know I've, I was never very good at like public speaking either in school and but from something I've learned over you know, the three or four or three years now that it's been since then is that you know, with public things like public speaking, you know, in school you're talking about things like Hamlet or you know, something that's, you know, it's not interesting for me anyway so. But you know, once you, you're talking about something you love, the nerves kind of just go out the window. It's, you know, it's, you're enjoying, you know, if I'm talking about photography and I'm talking about nature and weather and yeah, the nerves kind of just went out the window and I haven't looked back. [01:29:52] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no that's wonderful to hear and I agree, I find that too. Even, you know, I consider myself Quite introverted and. But when, if it's anything to do with photography, that all just disappears. Yeah. As soon as I start talking about the craft, I just get that, that kind of, that energy takes over that, you know, this is something I love and so I'm going to be passionate about it. And hence why I'm here with you guys today doing podcasts. Who would have thought? [01:30:19] Speaker A: Hey, who would have thought? 40, 143 episodes. [01:30:24] Speaker B: Indeed. Indeed. Let's talk gear. [01:30:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I have some questions. I have some questions. Why did you switch from Canon to. No, I'm kidding. [01:30:37] Speaker C: That's a fair question. [01:30:38] Speaker B: It's a fair question. [01:30:38] Speaker A: Okay, all right, all right, tell us about that. What, how did that decision come about? [01:30:44] Speaker C: So it was kind of the time when Canon and Nikon weren't releasing mirrorless. Like they hadn't released anything mirrorless yet. And Sony was at its almost, I think it's like second iteration of mirrorless cameras. So I just thought, well, I'm not waiting around, I'm just going to jump in and you could obviously you could adapt lenses from a Canon onto a Sony. And yeah, didn't really look back. But I will say one thing, like, especially like running workshops and teaching people throughout the years for me, you know, it doesn't matter what it is, you know, if Justin gave me his Canon, you know, you're still going to be able to make a good photo decent. [01:31:31] Speaker B: It's like good, good's a bit of a stretch. [01:31:33] Speaker C: Like. Yeah, I like to tell people, you know, just stick to one of the major brands, you know, your Sony, your Canon, your Nikon, your Panasonic, your, you know, it doesn't Fujifilm, it doesn't matter. It's just stick with it. And when you're thinking about gear and you're thinking about how the world works and the economy and things, it's, you know, Nikon wants to be better than Sony and Sony wants to be better than Canon. So they're all just trying to out compete each other anyway. So eventually everyone's going to catch up to one another. [01:32:04] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. And I think was it Dennis Smith the other night said something about, I think it was that night that I was, I couldn't make the podcast where Dennis was co hosting. He said something about, you know, choose your brand based on the glass, something along those lines. It was kind of like, you know, the glass should lead. [01:32:25] Speaker A: It's a pretty common, that's a pretty common one that that thought of, you know, don't just switch because a new body come out kind of thing. Because, because, yeah, two years later your, your brand might be the leader and the other brand might be a little bit behind. And then next two years later a different brand's the leader. And it's just like you still that Sam, those iterative jumps where they're trying to out compete each other and it won't be long before your brand catches up anyway. So don't stress too much. Yeah. [01:32:53] Speaker C: Like someone, one of the leading, one of the brands is always going to lead the pack eventually. It's always going to kind of. Yeah, yeah. [01:33:00] Speaker B: And again that's, you know that, that, that's in the eye of the beholder though, isn't it? [01:33:04] Speaker A: That's right. [01:33:05] Speaker B: You're influenced by a whole bunch of stuff. You know, you might have inherited a Canon kit from your adapt the glass to a current Canon model. You know, that sort of stuff. [01:33:16] Speaker A: It seems at the moment, it seems like that that time frame you were talking about when you switched was, I mean, all the cameras were still great then. Don't get me wrong, you could still grab a camera from any system then and make great photos. But it almost seems now like it's even more bunched together in terms of quality and what you can do with cameras now that everyone's caught up in the mirrorless race. And it's like you could literally grab any system right now and they're going to be all so close to each other. Unless you have really specific technical needs. Yeah, they're going to be so close that you wouldn't really even notice a difference. [01:33:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it's very true. And it's, you know, and the iterations we talked about a little earlier were, you know, those, those iterations and the improvements are getting smaller and smaller. It's like what we see with smartphones, like the jump from one iPhone 16 to 17. Yeah, they added some nice fancy stuff. The, the jumps really aren't that big compared to what they used to be. Yeah. You know when mirrorless first came. Well, when, when Canon and Nikon were trying to catch up with Sony, like those jumps were massive, but now they're not significant. [01:34:23] Speaker C: But it's also about like knowing what you need in a camera. [01:34:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:27] Speaker C: Like, you know, like I don't, you know, even though I have been talking about, you know, recently getting into some wildlife photography, but you know, like, I don't need like pre capture. That's not a thing I need. Or, you know, I don't need 4k video or some things like that. Like all I really Care about is how good is the sensor and probably like yeah, the dynamic range and the like stabilization, that's kind of of the things I'm looking for these days. It's. And for that reason like I'm going up in with the Sony system. I own a A7R II and I own an A7R4. And now I'm waiting for them to release an A7R6. So I'm going up in twos for that reason. [01:35:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:13] Speaker A: All right, let's, let's, let's. I'm going to ask a question so I can make a clip out of this. [01:35:21] Speaker B: Such a tick tocker. [01:35:22] Speaker A: Try and get on YouTube or something. Get famous. What are you wanting to see in the A7R6? [01:35:32] Speaker C: Well, currently. So the ace of my A7R4, I'm not 100 sure what the specs on stabilization are. I know that the six, sorry, the five is a whole lot better. So I'd love to see even more stabilization. So something like the Hasselblad has just released their new camera and I saw a video the other day I saw a tick tock or something as Justin calls it, of a guy doing a 3 second long exposure Seascape handheld. [01:36:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I was watching that too. [01:36:07] Speaker C: That's crazy. Like, like currently I can hold like I can handhold around almost half a second with my current camera. I know that the A7R V, you can almost, you can get away with about a second handheld. Yeah. Three seconds. [01:36:27] Speaker B: Especially with 100 megapixels like it just. It. [01:36:30] Speaker C: Yeah, it. [01:36:30] Speaker B: You can't hide your crimes with that much data, you know. [01:36:34] Speaker C: Yeah. So yeah, I'd love for, yeah. For the whole stabilization thing to just keep getting better and better. [01:36:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a fair call. That's a real. [01:36:43] Speaker A: What about sensors, megapixels, that kind of thing. What would you like to see in an A7R6 over and above what's available at the moment. [01:36:55] Speaker C: Yeah. So my A7RII is a 42 megapixel and the R5. No, sorry, R4 is a 60 or 62 or something. Look, 40 is more than enough. I think 30 is more than enough. But look, if Canon's gonna, I mean if Sony's gonna throw 100 megapixel sensor in it, I'm not gonna say no. [01:37:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Although you computer mining. [01:37:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:37:23] Speaker B: I, I found that when I, because I test and review gear and when I got the first one of the first GFXs to review the Fuji GFX, my computer just Couldn't open the files like it just so hard. Those files are massive. And you know, obviously storage is. In this economy, it's, it's a scary proposition going through your storage two, three times as fast as you used to, you know. [01:37:48] Speaker C: Yeah. I use a pro hosts host, website host called Back Blaze. They're an American company and they. It's like. I think it's like $100 Australian for a year and it's unlimited cloud storage. [01:38:05] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [01:38:06] Speaker C: Yeah. So I've got like 20 terabytes in the cloud. [01:38:12] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah. [01:38:13] Speaker A: So takes a long time to, to upload that though. Do you use that purely as a back. As a backup or is that you're using it as actual storage? [01:38:22] Speaker C: So what I've got is, I've got. So I've got four drives. I've got one that's 10 terabytes and another one that's 10 terabytes and they're a read and write copy of one another. So they're the same files. Then I've got another. Their drives 1 and 2 and then I've got drives 3 and 4. So 1 and 2 are full and then 3 and 4 are also 10 terabytes each. And then they're my current drive. So anything that I'm shooting now goes onto them and then they're a read and write copy of one another. And then drive one and drive three are backed up to the cloud to back. [01:39:00] Speaker A: Yeah, smart. Yeah, nice. Yeah, it's data sucks. You don't do much video, do you? No. Yeah, that just. It just eats hard drives. It's killing it. [01:39:15] Speaker B: We were talking earlier about how the iterations between cameras is getting smaller and, you know, like you, I don't need video, but I, I do often wonder whether a camera company will be brave enough one day to put out a digital mirrorless that doesn't shoot video. That'd be an interesting, interesting thing to see. I doubt it will happen because it's all just part of the sensor and the, the, the processor now, you know, it's all just baked in. [01:39:44] Speaker C: Yeah. See, I want someone to almost rival what Hasselblad does, where they make the sensor separate to the camera so you can interchange it. So I want them to go, you know, this is the type of body I want, say for a Sony camera. And then what you can do is, oh, you know, you can upgrade the viewfinder, you can upgrade the screen, you can upgrade the sensor, you can upgrade the battery compartment. I want them to be like kind of interchangeable camera. [01:40:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:40:16] Speaker A: Modular. [01:40:17] Speaker C: Because Then, you know, like, if you've already got a good viewfinder, why do I need to pay for another viewfinder? All I need is the new sensor. [01:40:24] Speaker B: Yep, yep. I mean, upcycle. [01:40:28] Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense. It'd be cool. It would be cool. [01:40:31] Speaker C: But look, I can see why they would. Don't want to do it. [01:40:34] Speaker A: Yeah, why they would. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very interesting. I don't know, I. Yeah, it's really interesting. All the different advancements that are happening at the moment, but also how close everything is and how like even the. The new Sony A7 5, the 32 or 33 megapixel one or whatever it is, there's been tests coming out about the dynamic range on that that they've managed to make it even better for. So a lot of the iterations lately have been on speed. Like, can we get faster frames a second? Can we get faster sensor readout speed for electronic shutter, which also benefits video. So you don't get rolling shutter when you're panning around with videos and things like that. A lot of it's been based on that at the. But sacrificing dynamic range a little bit or sacrificing high ISO performance a little bit, not. Not much. Not enough that it matters too much. But like we weren't going forward in those areas. We were taking a little bit of a back step to be able to get, you know, 30 frames a second, electronic shutter and stuff like that. But this a 75 using the mechanical shutter is actually even better dynamic range and. And one of the highest performing dynamic range scores for full frame cameras outside of, you know, the really unique stuff. It was, it was right up there and I thought that was very interesting. [01:42:07] Speaker B: Impressive. [01:42:08] Speaker A: Yeah, very impressive. [01:42:10] Speaker B: Have you ever considered swapping to Sony, Justin? [01:42:14] Speaker A: I did, yeah. I definitely. It was. I looked into it when I. Because I've switched from Canon to Nikon back to Canon and yeah, when I switched from Nikon back to Canon was right around that mirrorless time. I'd had a. I'd had one mirrorless Nikon and just sort of played with it with adapters. But then, yeah, then that was going to make the full jump. And when you go to make the full jump, it's definitely worth looking into everything that's out there, lenses and everything included, as to which system might be the best. And I definitely looked into Sony but ultimately went back to Canon because Canon were wonderful for us to deal with. And also I knew their system already. I like the lenses, they had that 28-70 f2 lens. Which was pretty crazy. Sony hadn't made their one of that yet, so. [01:43:02] Speaker C: Yeah, that's why. [01:43:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:43:04] Speaker A: I would still consider Sony. Yeah. An easy front. [01:43:07] Speaker B: Yeah. They're a contender, aren't they? [01:43:09] Speaker A: If Canon disappeared tomorrow, Sony would probably be the top of my list. But I'd look into Nikon again as well and just sort of suss it out. [01:43:15] Speaker B: Out. [01:43:15] Speaker A: But I think Sony would probably be leading the race unless I did something silly and got a gfx. Just quickly, Felicity Johnson just asked, can you please repeat the name of the cloud system Samuel uses? I use Dropbox to store my images and has a limit to storage size unless you upgrade and pay more and more expensive. [01:43:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:43:36] Speaker C: So it's back Blaze. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:43:41] Speaker A: And it's. And it's very much. It's probably more so Dropbox originated as a file sharing solution as opposed to a backup solution. It originated as essentially a folder you can put stuff in and then you can access that folder or folder structure anywhere. Other people can share it with you. It becomes a shared drive and obviously you can use it to back up. That's totally fine. Whereas Backblaze, as far as I'm aware, originated as a cloud backup solution in terms of. They're all probably similar now in terms of the way that they all work icloud and all that and Google Drive and everything in terms of just the way that they function. But Backblaze definitely is more of like a. Let's back up your entire drive in case something crazy happens and you can. All your data is safe. It's kind of. And that's why the, the pricing structure is obviously the way it is where it's like, it's unlimited. You know, it makes more sense for people that have a ton of data. But I don't know what its file sharing capabilities are like. Have you used it for file sharing or anything? [01:44:51] Speaker C: There is like an application, like an app, when you fire it on things for it. But it's not. Look, I wouldn't. [01:44:58] Speaker A: It's not my Dropbox. [01:45:00] Speaker C: You can't preview the files. So you just got to go off if you know the name of like. [01:45:05] Speaker B: Oh, that's rough. Yeah, I don't like that. [01:45:07] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:45:09] Speaker B: I only use. I use iCloud for my stuff because I'm completely immersed in Apple for everything and I already had some storage with them. It just made sense just to boost that with them. But yeah, interesting. And so in terms of Glass, so you, you still, obviously you had some, some Canon lenses. We all make mistakes. It's fine. But you've adapted. You're still using those with the Sony or have you started using some Sony glass as well or third party? [01:45:42] Speaker C: Yeah, no. So, yeah, I have bought into the whole Sony system. So when it comes to lenses, I have a. So my kind of. My primary go to lens is the original 16-35 F 2.8. That's kind of, you know, if someone welded that to my camera, I'd be happy. That's fine. [01:46:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:46:05] Speaker B: Cool. [01:46:07] Speaker C: And then from there I've kind of expanded. So there's a number of different things like, you know, you look for with a lens when you purchase it. For me, I'm not too, you know, I'm not too harsh on, you know, how sharp a lens is. Look, if you're whacking a lens on a 60 megapixel body, you're going to get something that's, you know, quite usable regardless of how sharp the lens is. So my hiking kit that I take when I do like hikes in Tasmania or New Zealand, I own a. There's a Sony 16-35 F4 and it's the PZ lens. So it's actually a video lens. It's like focused by wire and it's like 300 grams or something stupid. It's so light. And then I also have a. Which again, the quality is not, you know, it's not like a G Master, but it's, it's good enough because, you know, I don't really want to hike in the backcountry with something that's like 900 grams, which is like what the G Master is. And then I also own. So like my daily Telephoto is the 100-400g master. But then again that's quite substantial when it comes to weight. So when I do hiking, I substitute that out for a 70 to 300 Tamron, which is. I call it like the plastic fantastic because it's just made of. Yeah, I don't even. It's not. Yeah, but it's again, it's like 500 grams. So the entire kit, when I'm hiking, one body, two lenses comes out at like, I think it's like 1.2 or 1.3 kilos. That's it. Yeah. [01:47:49] Speaker B: So that's about the weight of a hefty MacBook. Yeah. [01:47:53] Speaker C: So it's like. It's when you're hiking. That's really, really good. Yeah. And then the other thing that's in my kit, which I've recently purchased probably about six months ago was a Lauer 10 mil. Yeah. Which is just crazy. So the vertical shot that I shot, Horsehead. Rock on. That's. That's a. That's that with the 10 mil. And it's just. It's like almost 180 degrees. Like, but it's rectilinear, so it's still. Everything's straight. It's just crazy. [01:48:27] Speaker B: They're very good at correcting their lenses. [01:48:29] Speaker C: It's so much fun to use. So. Yeah. So the kit is. Yeah, 10 mil 16 to 35, and either a 100 to 400 or the 70 to 300, depending on what I'm doing. [01:48:42] Speaker B: And you still only take the one body with you. You don't bring a backup in case. [01:48:47] Speaker C: So if I'm traveling internationally, so if I'm going to New Zealand or when I went over to Canada recently, I take. I take the A7, R2, and I take the 4, and then I just put a wide and then the telephoto on the other. [01:49:01] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. [01:49:02] Speaker C: But if it's just in Australia, I usually just take the one body. [01:49:05] Speaker B: Yep. [01:49:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:49:07] Speaker B: Yep. [01:49:07] Speaker A: You don't miss the. The 35 to 70 or 35 to 100 mil sort of gap in there at all. Do you ever shoot in those focal lengths, or is that just not how you see the world? [01:49:19] Speaker C: Yeah, so, like, I've never actually owned, like, a 24 to 70 or a 24 to 105 or anything. [01:49:25] Speaker B: Well done, you. I say peer pressure is horrible. Everyone says you must have one, but I don't agree. [01:49:30] Speaker C: Yeah, I've never owned one, so. Especially if you're shooting with a high megapixel body, if you're at 35 mil, you could kind of already crop to 50. And then, you know, and if I have, you know, if I'm using the Tamron 70 to 300, then the 70s, you know, it's wide enough. [01:49:51] Speaker A: So, yeah. You never find yourself thinking off only I had a 50, I'd be sweet. It just. It doesn't bother you at all. [01:49:58] Speaker C: It's. Look, this probably has been a couple of times where I'm like, oh, I wish I could just zoom in a little bit more. But again, I just, you know, just cropping the little edges a little bit. Yeah. I think it's also good because it's the focal lengths I'm talking about. You know, you tend to your 16 to 35 and the 100 to 400 there aspects of the world that you don't see with your eye, like, most of the time with Your eyes you're seeing probably, I think it's like that 50 mil, 35 mil range. [01:50:27] Speaker B: 35 to 40. [01:50:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:50:29] Speaker C: Yeah. So you're seeing with all these, all the lenses in my kit, it's everything but that. So it makes you kind of get a little bit more creative because you have to think outside the box. You got to think, okay, well, that's what I'm looking at with like a, you know, 40 mil with my eye, but I don't have a 40 mil, so I've got to be able to capture that in a different way. [01:50:49] Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense. [01:50:52] Speaker B: Can I ask you about. We don't often ask this question, but what. What about tripods? We talked about stability, the need for stability and gear earlier. What sort of tripods are you rocking with? Because I think people would find that interesting. [01:51:04] Speaker C: Yeah, So I do own some. There's a. This is a Lee photo, Mr. Y, which is kind of like, just like a little compact travel one. Yeah, I, you know, look it. I throw it in the back of my ute from time to time. And then I do have a quite a beefy, a large kind of surui. I think it's a 2, 2, 44 or something like that. It's quite old. It's been through hell and back. But probably like recently, within the last, like two or three years, I've been more leaning towards just photographing handheld other than obviously, you know, nighttime with the Milky Way or the aurora. I've worked out that, like I said previously, I can get away with about half a second. And then, you know, what you can do is, you know, the auto align features in Photoshop are, you know, it's incredible these days. So what you can do is if you say, if you're shooting a waterfall, for example, and you take half a second, half a second, half a second, half a second, half a second. If you put them together. So you put these two together, that's a second. You put those two together, that's another second. Then you chuck that on. You've now got a two and a half second exposure without needing a tripod. [01:52:22] Speaker B: Yep. [01:52:23] Speaker C: Yeah. So that's. I'm kind of just. I'm doing that these days if I need to, to get kind of, you know, a longer exposure. And you can also have the best of both worlds. So what you can do is you can shoot a sunrise if, you know, if you're not moving heaps, you can shoot a sunrise. Just click, click, click, click, click, go through your paces and then you go, oh, I really wish I'd, you know, brought a filter along, which again, I don't usually tend to use. What you can do is you just go, oh, you know, if I wanted to see what it was at five seconds, you just stack a bunch of images and then you get 5 second exposure. [01:53:02] Speaker A: Interesting. So you can kind of simulate longer exposures by layering them in that way. [01:53:08] Speaker C: Yeah, so you just take the, the median thing is the blending mode. You use the stack mode. I think it's medium or mean. [01:53:15] Speaker B: I've never done it. [01:53:17] Speaker A: No. [01:53:17] Speaker B: Medium stack. [01:53:18] Speaker A: Not, not like that. What's your, what's your philosophy on editing? Like, you've got, you've got sort of a few philosophies on, on subject matter. Do you have a philosophy on editing or is it kind of dependent on the image and what you're trying to convey as to how much editing you would do or what lines you would and wouldn't cross? [01:53:40] Speaker C: Yeah, so something probably, I'd probably say about five years ago, like I was, you know, like, I don't. I'm not into it personally. Like, people, you know, they replace skies and they put in stars and they remove things and all that. The only thing, like, I'll remove, like small distractions if needed. But like, for me these days, especially like with competitions, especially like Ozgeo, that's probably. I don't really enter many competitions. That's the only real one I will enter. In Australia, they don't allow you to remove. I think it's like minor, minor cleaning. So, you know, like, if there's a chip packet or something on the sand, you know, you could get rid of that, but you're not allowed to remove major elements. And for me, you know, especially like running workshops and, you know, putting my work online and having a story behind an image and things. Yeah, I want people to be able to tell that, you know, it's real. You can experience that moment. You can, you know, the aurora did look like that, the sunset did look like that. This place is real. So, yeah, I'm not. I'm trying to basically replicate what I saw, obviously to the best of my ability. And then, yeah, obviously not overdoing it. It should be. I think it should be as natural as possible. It's almost like document documentation of landscape. So I'm trying to document it as what I saw it with my own eyes. [01:55:18] Speaker B: I wonder if it's getting harder and harder. Maybe Matt can answer this in the chat. But for photography judges to understand or to, you know, identify something that is genuine versus something that's been amended with AI or in whatever way, you know, with. With the rise of AI in all of the photography editing software pretty much now, you know, is that becoming a. A tough. A tough nut to crack, so to speak? [01:55:43] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's. It's. It's very hard to like, even, you know, just like on Instagram, you know, the image is only this big on your phone. [01:55:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:55:51] Speaker C: It's like, well, you know, anything could be AI these days. But yeah, it's so. But, you know, especially if you're entering like, say, like a competition like Ozgeo, they. They want the RAW file so they can tell that it's not being, you know, manipulated with AI or you, you know, you haven't removed, you know, something major in the image. So it's being able to kind of, you know, weigh up, you know, if you're entering, say, a competition, which competition are the ones which are quite, you know, they are checking your original files. And I think that's a good thing because, you know, you don't want to be entering a competition. And then if someone wins it with an image which is completely. Doesn't look anything like the raw file. Yeah, I don't think that's really fair. [01:56:39] Speaker B: Yeah. We've got some comments from Matt. He has. He's taken the bait. I would say that compliance with authenticity requirements for competition falls on competition organizers and. And committees, not the judges themselves. But yes, it is slightly harder than it used to be, but there are still ways to address it. In fact, I'm writing a course on that very topic. Oh, very timely. Well played, Matt. Well played indeed. I didn't show the second comment. Sorry, I just read it. [01:57:04] Speaker A: That's okay. [01:57:05] Speaker B: There it is. [01:57:06] Speaker A: Interesting comment here. And I'm trying to figure out what they mean at 7 rolly 3. Dude, how did they spell his name wrong on the stream? Lol. And I'm like, I don't think we did. Samuel Markham. Samuel markham. [01:57:22] Speaker B: Now the YouTube's right to me. [01:57:24] Speaker A: I know it's right to me, dude. [01:57:26] Speaker B: Explain yourself, dude. [01:57:28] Speaker A: What do you mean, lol? Okay, we're almost two hours. What else do we want to know? There was other stuff I had written down. [01:57:39] Speaker B: What have you got written down, boss? [01:57:41] Speaker A: Well, I wanted to. I wanted to talk about editing, which we kind of have, and talk about gear we kind of have when. Talk about workshops. We've done that. So I think I know the answer to this, but other. Other photography genres. Does anything. So you used to shoot everything and then you honed in on Landscape photography to really get great at it, which I think you have. Looks awesome. Amazing work. Nailed it. Do you ever get tempted by any other like you've obviously been tempted by wildlife which is very much like landscape adjacent kind of thing. It's like the, it's, it's, Is there anything else that tempts you in terms of photography genres to try? [01:58:25] Speaker C: Yeah, not, not so much. So recently probably February this year I think it was, I bought myself again kind of again dipping my toes in the whole wildlife thing. I bought myself a, a cam tractions, infrared like trigger for like trail cam photography. So yeah, so it's a bit completely different. I haven't actually really released any of the images that I've got. I've got a nice little series with a brushtail possum, almost six to 10 images. And yeah, that's been again I haven't used it that much because I've been, you know, got married, went overseas, went to Canada and all this stuff. But it's, it's been, it's a very, very different type of photography. So I had an old Canon 80D sitting at my parents house and a wider, an older wide angle lens for that and I thought well it's not getting used, what can I do with it? So then I went down the rabbit hole of contraptions and infrared sensors and flashes and so yeah, I played around with that for about six months just kind of in between workshops and stuff. And yeah, it's, it's really fun but it's again it's so different because you're not there taking the photo. It's doing it for, for you. Like you set up your composition, you set up the flashes and then you just got to kind of got to hope and pray that the animal kind of turns up. But yeah, it's, it's, it's, it is different. I, I, I don't enjoy it as much because I'm not there taking the image myself. Like I like I don't own a drone for that reason because yeah I'm, it's kind of being disconnected from the camera. Like the camera's flying, I'm not there taking the image. Yep. Yeah, so no, not really. I do, I'm a bit of a rugby league nerd and cricket nerd as well. So you know, one day I kind of like the experience. I know you can buy like field side tickets for rugby league to go and take photos. Yeah, yeah. With like Nick on, I think Nick on, do a thing and you can bring your own camera. I Don't mind. That's cool. So, yeah, I'd love to do that. Like, it's. It'd be kind of cool just for a one off, but no, nothing else really interests me that much. Like, I wouldn't. I don't know what I'd do with the photos of the players, but I think it'd just be an experience. [02:01:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that'd be great. Especially with no pressure. It's not like someone said, oh, we need you to go and photograph this game for this, whatever. You're just there to enjoy it. You can take whatever photos you want, have fun, be close to the action and then. Yeah, leave them on your hard drive. [02:01:19] Speaker B: If you want and get a front row seat. [02:01:21] Speaker C: So the football, which is awesome. Yeah, I think that's cool. [02:01:24] Speaker B: Yeah, that is cool. [02:01:25] Speaker C: Another thing I'd love to do, which again, it's wildlife based, again is. And I don't own one, I'd love to go down with my camera in a housing in a cage and take photos of great white sharks. [02:01:40] Speaker B: Why? Why would you want to do that? [02:01:42] Speaker A: Hang on. Have you seen the video where the shark gets in the cage? [02:01:47] Speaker B: Surviving, surviving, surviving. A firestorm wasn't enough for you. You just want to attempt. You just want to tempt fate. [02:01:52] Speaker C: Okay, look, I am so scared of it. Like, thinking about it. I'm like, that would be terrifying. But like, I just think being like having like, I would never jump out of a plane, do skydiving or anything like that. Like, I've always told, like, put my bucks, party for my wedding. I said to the boys, I said, if you buy me a ticket to jump out of a plane to do parachuting or skydiving or whatever. I said, I'm not doing it. I'm not, like, I've said that to people that, to my parentship over, do like bungee jumping or anything. I'm not doing it. I'm never ever doing it. [02:02:23] Speaker A: Bungee jumping is not. No, I don't like the idea of that. I'd rather skydive than bungee jump. [02:02:28] Speaker B: That's just playing with the laws of. [02:02:30] Speaker C: Physics too, for some reason. The whole shark in the cage thing, it is kind of very tempting. I wouldn't mind it. I'd have to. I'd have to like talk myself into it, like a lot. [02:02:40] Speaker B: Yeah. But it's compelling for you. It's. It's calling to you to do it. [02:02:44] Speaker C: Yeah. So. But obviously I need to get a housing and everything to do it, but I think maybe, you know, Just once, just to do it. [02:02:52] Speaker A: Oh man. I just, I now I. After seeing that video where the shark gets in there, I'm like, I know. I have no interest in that whatsoever. Oh, it's terrifying. It's terrifying. [02:03:05] Speaker C: Let's do it. The Camera Life podcast in the cage. [02:03:09] Speaker A: And we'll live stream it. We'll live stream it. [02:03:12] Speaker B: No, that's not fair. I'm the fattest. I'll go first. [02:03:15] Speaker C: Episode 150. [02:03:16] Speaker B: Oh, tasty boy. [02:03:19] Speaker A: It's a seal with a beard. Okay, so you, you'd like to get in there and have you. So you've never done any water like you've never used a housing for to do sort of that. You've never been tempted by that kind of stuff. You know how people get into. Because you obviously near the coast a lot of the time, you know, people do sort of breaking waves photos with sunsets and things like that from in the water. That, that doesn't tempt you at all, that style of photography? [02:03:48] Speaker C: No, it has. But again it's just a whole another rabbit hole to go down. Yeah, I do kind of like the. Some people do like the over unders where it's like I wouldn't mind doing that but with like incorporating it into landscapes. So doing like over under astrophotography. [02:04:09] Speaker A: Oh wow. [02:04:11] Speaker C: Putting like a tripod, doing like an over under, like getting like a puddle of water near the ocean. Doing things like that. That'd be kind of cool. [02:04:19] Speaker B: That would be cool. [02:04:20] Speaker A: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, fun. So you've got some ideas, you got some, you got some ideas percolating up there of things you'd like to try in the future? Is there anything else, any projects you're working on or anything else that you sort of big trips planned for work that you want to capture? [02:04:39] Speaker C: No, not. No, not really. I, yeah. Came back from Canada with 40000 images. [02:04:47] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [02:04:50] Speaker C: And I've gotten through one folder out of like 30. So that's been okay. And then. Oh yeah, obviously we went to India. So yeah, I haven't had time. And then now it's Christmas and New Year January. February is going to be definitely editing time. But yeah. Yeah. [02:05:11] Speaker A: Okay, cool. What, what can we expect to see from Canada? Was there wildlife as well or mainly landscapes? Bit of both. [02:05:20] Speaker C: Yeah. So I took the whole kit. I took over. I took at the 100 to 400 and I also have a two times teleconverter. So that gets me up to yeah, 800 mil with a 60 megapixel sensor. And yeah, me and the wife, she's. Her name's Sarah and she's, she's also into photography as well. Not so much the most extreme stuff that I do, but she just loves, you know, happy snaps and stuff. So she, before we went over, she bought herself a Fujifilm system. [02:05:57] Speaker B: Represent. [02:05:58] Speaker C: Yeah. Even though I had to try, I was trying to twist her arm into. [02:06:01] Speaker A: Getting sewn in because then we could share lenses. Yeah. [02:06:05] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [02:06:06] Speaker C: I'm actually very, very surprised at how good that sensor in it. It's like, I think it's the XT50. It's a APSC. Yeah, 45 or 42 or something. Yeah, it's incredible. [02:06:20] Speaker B: I've got the same in my XE5. [02:06:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's, it's this the same as the XT5 as well. Like that's their flagship X series sensor, isn't it? So that's the best. [02:06:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [02:06:30] Speaker C: Yes, it's incredible. [02:06:32] Speaker B: The T50 is a great little camera. [02:06:33] Speaker C: Yeah, we bought her a wide angle lens and that like weighs like nothing. Yeah, it's like, you know, you kind of. I kind of got a little bit jealous of how light everything was. But anyway, yeah, so yeah, we went over there for about eight weeks, did all the kind of the touristy spots and then did the amount of research that goes into think something like that. Obviously, you know, it was our, it was our honeymoon but it was also, I like to call it, you know, 60 honeymoon 40 photography trip. And yeah, like doing all the research for the different locations and stuff. And then during the daytime we'd go out. She loves wildlife. So we went out and took some photos of some bears and moose and elk and all types of stuff. The only thing we didn't see was wolves or cougars which were a little bit disappointed. But yeah, we saw, yeah, elk, moose, bears, black bears, brown bears, grizzlies. Yeah, it was, it was incredible. So yeah, we took, we've got lots of photos and stuff like that as well. And yeah, obviously we did all the kind of sunrise, sunset and we went out and chased the Aurora as well. So there was lots and lots into it and. But yeah, the thing for me is especially going to a new place I put so much. Just one second. [02:08:09] Speaker B: Okay, this while. While Samuel's grabbing a prop. Perfect. Time to remind everybody that this is the Camera Life podcast. If you're new here or you haven't done it yet, please give us a like. It certainly helps us out a huge amount. It helps other people become aware of us. But also if you're new Here, hit the subscribe button. It costs you nothing. Tickle the bell icon so you get notified of every episode in your time zone. We do a Thursday morning show Every Thursday live, 9:00am Australian Eastern Time. And then of course, every Monday evening we have our random photography show. 7:30pm Every Monday, Australian Eastern Time. Again, Samuel is actually our last interview for 2025 because next week is. Is Christmas Day and neither Justin or I feel like interviewing people on that day. [02:08:56] Speaker A: No. [02:08:56] Speaker B: So this, Samuel, is our last interview for the year, but we have plenty of amazing guests lined up for already the first quarter of 2026 is booked out and we're looking forward to bringing those, those people to your eyeballs and earballs. [02:09:11] Speaker A: And if you need, obviously if you're looking for photography interviews to listen to over this year, like during this Christmas holiday period, over this year we've interviewed like 50, over 50amazing photographers and I bet you haven't listened to all of of them. So go back and have a look through whether it's Nick Carver from just last week or, gosh, all the way back. I can't even remember who we did at the start of this year, but I bet you there's tons in there that you haven't listened to yet. So go back in and dig into the archive and find it. We might even put together a couple little, little guides of like, you know, landscape photography. You know, like, maybe we'll street photography interviews, sort of batch them up so people can dig into whatever genre they're into. Okay, what have you got for us? [02:09:56] Speaker C: So prior to. To going to Canada, I'm like a bit of a freak when it comes to, like trying to organize locations and not wanting to miss out. [02:10:08] Speaker A: You did make your own map app. Yeah, yeah, I can see. We get it. [02:10:14] Speaker C: So this is the guide that I did and it's got like. [02:10:21] Speaker A: Hang on, hang on. [02:10:23] Speaker B: That level of OCD is. [02:10:24] Speaker A: Are you kidding? That's. That's for Canada. [02:10:28] Speaker C: Yeah, so this is for Canada and it's like every page is back, like back to front. And so how it is is I've got. Oh, it's not going to let me focus. [02:10:38] Speaker A: Oh, because it's going to blur. [02:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:10:40] Speaker C: Can I turn off the blur? This is cool. You'll have to see. [02:10:43] Speaker A: This is. This is cool. You should be able to turn the blur. [02:10:46] Speaker C: Yeah, there we go. So take that off. So, yeah, this is. This is for Jasper. So we're in Jasper for days 31 to 35. We were there on the 13th to the 17th of October. Our accommodation was for four nights and that's where we were staying. And then there's eight photographic opportunities. So that means a photographic opportunity is a sunrise or a sunset in my eyes. So that's when you're going to get best light. So then that there is the moon cycle for those days. [02:11:16] Speaker B: That's awesome. [02:11:16] Speaker C: This, this here is one of the locations with an image from Google, just Google images of what to expect. It's got the name, it's got the time from our accommodation. So it's going to take us 30 minutes to get there. It's got. Is there a hike required? Yes, a short walk from the car park, about five minutes. It's got the coordinates of where the spot is. It's then got. If we're going there for sunrise, the sun will be behind the mountain to the left. And if we're going there for sunset, it says the light will hit the mountain. And then down here it's got the photo pills, screenshot of then the arrow in the direction that you'd be facing to see this. And then the star up here means it's a location I really want to see and go and look. And then that's just one location. And then this one here is a different location. It's got all the same stuff. But then I put a little aurora tag up there. So if that faces north because we're in the northern hemisphere for the aurora, if the aurora kicks off. This one here, wow. [02:12:27] Speaker B: And I thought you did a lot of lists, Justin. [02:12:29] Speaker C: They're all just iterations. So this one here, I've put the Milky Way logo. Milky Way logo. [02:12:36] Speaker A: That's so good. [02:12:37] Speaker B: That's very cool. [02:12:38] Speaker C: Faces the Milky Way as well. So. [02:12:42] Speaker A: Gosh. Yeah, like I'm starting to see. I make a lot of lists for other things, but I'm starting to see why I'm not a award winning landscape photographer. And it's when I go on trips, I'm like, all right, I'll book our accommodation when we get over there and then I guess I'll just see what we're doing each day. How, how long did it take to put that guide together for yourself? [02:13:11] Speaker C: Oh, that was probably like eight, eight months of work. Probably. I did probably about two hours every night. [02:13:16] Speaker A: Oh my gosh. [02:13:17] Speaker B: Wow. That's. [02:13:18] Speaker C: Yeah. So every, every place. So like, you know, we stayed at Banff. So then Banff's got a section of like, you know, eight photography opportunities. And then you go through and I had to work out the moon is there. If there's a full Moon, where is it facing, what direction? How to do that with all the locations. So if you're coming on a Samuel Marcum photography workshop, just be assured that you're in safe hands when it comes to locations. [02:13:43] Speaker A: That's great. Okay, so you could, you could probably sell that guide as a one off because obviously people can only use it in those locations on those dates because then it's got the relevant. Wouldn't the, you know, the moon's different. The moon phases and stuff would be different. How would that even work anyway? You could basically be like, this is available for someone who's going on an eight week trip during this time of year around this area and just be like, it's $5,000. [02:14:15] Speaker C: See the thing, the thing is, I went there to. So every single thing in the guide. We at least went and had a look like, you know, just pulled over with the car or whatever and I just took a quick snap on my phone or my camera and like in the future I kind of. I might plan to do another map. [02:14:34] Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. [02:14:36] Speaker C: So I've done an Australia. I can then do a Canadian Rockies map. [02:14:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:14:40] Speaker A: Yep. [02:14:40] Speaker C: With all the background and all the, you know, where is the light, where is the sun and all that stuff. Stuff. [02:14:45] Speaker A: So yeah. [02:14:46] Speaker B: Well, you've already done half the work, so it makes sense, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very cool. Just a couple of quick comments here about. About your ocd, Felicity Johnson. G', day, Felicity. Sam. Felicity's just won a bunch of awards too. [02:15:01] Speaker A: I know. [02:15:02] Speaker B: Well done, kiddo. Samuel, you need to patent that for bfop. That's the bright festival of photography. Have you ever heard of bfop? [02:15:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I have a little bit. [02:15:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:15:11] Speaker C: I've never been, but yeah, I've heard about it. [02:15:13] Speaker B: Yeah, we went the last two years. It's been amazing. Phenomenal. So we're all organized for our workshop. Side trips, pubs, most important. And then little word of wisdom from Matt again. I see. I can't read this. I see. Samuel and I are kindred spirits when it comes to trip planning. Yeah, you certainly sound like the OCD type, Matt. [02:15:35] Speaker A: Love you for. I can imagine he would have similar sort of setups with folders or spreadsheets or. Or some such thing. [02:15:41] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [02:15:43] Speaker A: Wow. [02:15:43] Speaker B: Impressive. [02:15:44] Speaker A: Yeah, that's impressive. That is very impressive. I can, Yeah, I can see how you find yourself in lucky situations for auroras and compositions and things like that. If you put that much planning into locations and trips and everything like that, that's. It's not lucky. Cool. Should we should we call it. Is there anything else, Greg? [02:16:08] Speaker B: I think that's probably a natural place to park. This episode we've talked about what you've got coming up. Justin, do you want to ask the, the zombie question? [02:16:17] Speaker A: Well, I already know it now he said he'd basically weld that, weld a 16 to 35 onto his Sony, I'm guessing a 7R4 and could probably do most things. So yeah, I was, I thought that but I had it written down. I just crossed it out and I was like. Well he said he would weld his lens onto his body. So unless I'm putting words in your mouth. So you did, you actually did mention multiple times Hasselblad. If you had, if you just had, you know, unlimited money, a blank check, would you, would you grab a Hassleblad, one of those? What's it, the X2D2? Is that what it is? [02:16:53] Speaker C: I think that's the new one. [02:16:55] Speaker A: The new one? Yeah. Is, would you, is that tempting you, that system? [02:16:59] Speaker C: Well, I don't have ultimate. [02:17:03] Speaker A: Sorry. Tempting you in the sense that like if it was, if you could actually, if there were a normal price that people could afford. Do you like the idea of that system? [02:17:15] Speaker C: Look, if I had a blank check I'd probably either go that or I'd probably go with Fuji gfx. But in saying that all their lenses and everything that like and the whole body set up and everything is quite heavy, I might just re design my whole Sony kit like you know, pick, you know the, the new 16 to 35 Mark II and then you know, look at weight to hiking ratio to be honest. [02:17:48] Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense. Yeah because that's the thing. You go up to these bigger larger format or medium format systems and yeah like you say, everything gets bigger. So it does affect your entire kit weight and then especially if you're hiking. [02:18:02] Speaker B: Overnight or you know, you got tent, you've got food, you got, you know, clothing, you've got everything else. So yeah, well look, I think that is a good, good space to park it. Samuel, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been, I have to say it's been quite inspiring hearing your story, especially the story around your award winning image for which you should be celebrated and congratulated is, and it is not just the image as we mentioned earlier, that yes, it's compelling, yes it's beautiful but it's the story and the experience and what you went through with your family and the fears and the worries and the potential loss that you all faced is pretty Remarkable that you still managed to grab a camera, make an image and turn that whole experience into something that wasn't quite so dark that there is actually a silver lining there. And yeah, for that you should be congratulated. But thank you so much for joining us today. It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. We'll drop every, we'll drop Samuel's links to his socials and his website in the comments below. Strongly recommend everyone go and have a look. That way you can actually see these images in, in better resolution than watching it through YouTube because it all gets compressed and mucked up. [02:19:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And on, on Samuel's website, samuelmarcum Photography, you'll find the link and information about the map to the landscape photography map of Australia and how to, how to access that and download it. If it's something that you're interested in, I would definitely check it out. If you're into landscape photography and like me, don't want to do the work to figure out where to go. Just want it to happen. [02:19:38] Speaker B: Cool. [02:19:38] Speaker A: Anything else people should know, Samuel, before we go? [02:19:43] Speaker C: No, no, not really. Just. Yeah. Thank you guys so much, Justin and Greg. Yeah, it's been, I've had really, really fun time. I've been looking forward to this obviously, yeah, over the last when you guys reached out. But yeah, thank you so much and yeah, Merry Christmas to you both and all the best New Year. [02:20:03] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you very much. [02:20:04] Speaker B: Very cool. Well, we'll play the music and we'll say goodbye to some folks in the chat. You've all been a bit quiet today. Matt Palmer's had a voice. [02:20:11] Speaker A: They have been quiet. I guess everyone's working and it's busy time of the year. Speaking of which, Rodney Nicholson says Merry Christmas all. Thanks Jay and J and G for a great year of pod. Samuel, enjoyed your interview. Philip Johnson said. Thanks again, gents. Matt Palmer says have a great Christmas, fellas. Look forward to seeing you all in the new year. [02:20:33] Speaker B: Indeed. [02:20:33] Speaker A: And I think that's about it. I mean thanks to everyone else that was here. Except for 77 rolly three. I don't know, I still don't understand. [02:20:41] Speaker B: Yeah, dude, what are you talking about? [02:20:42] Speaker A: What are you talking about? Robert Varner. Good to see you. Gave us the old thumbs up. Lot of Paul Henderson, Paul, Lisa Leach, everybody. Good to see you all. David Mascaro. Stuart Lyle. See you on the next one. [02:20:54] Speaker B: Be safe everybody. [02:20:56] Speaker A: Merry Christmas. [02:20:57] Speaker B: Merry Christmas. Ho ho, ho.