EP126 Louise Sedgman | The Art of Equine Photograhy

[00:00:24] Speaker A: Well, good morning everybody and welcome back to the Camera Life podcast. This is episode 124. It is the 23rd of October and. And the month is just disappearing. You go to beef up for a weekend and you lose two weeks somehow. [00:00:37] Speaker B: Did you find that, Justin? I think it's actually episode 126, Greg. So there you go. [00:00:43] Speaker A: It's 124. [00:00:44] Speaker B: You sure? [00:00:45] Speaker A: Where did you get that number? [00:00:46] Speaker B: From the title. [00:00:49] Speaker A: Just because it's in the title doesn't make it right. [00:00:51] Speaker B: We're in the 120s anyway. It's getting to the point we might stop counting. [00:00:54] Speaker A: We may just stop now. We should never stop counting because know numbers are important. But. Welcome back to the Camera Life podcast, proudly brought to you by Lucky Straps. Please head to Luckystraps.com and check out our our product. We sell belts, leather belts, premium leather camera straps. That's what we're known for. We also have some T shirts, some hoodies and bits and pieces if you're heading into a cold place. We also sell winter gloves. But that's enough about that. Let's welcome today's guest, Louise Sedgman. Absolute delight to have you. We caught up at BFOP a couple of weeks ago now almost, and so glad that we can continue that conversation here today. Welcome. [00:01:33] Speaker C: Thank you so much, Greg and Justin. It is awesome to be here. Can't wait to chat. [00:01:38] Speaker B: So good to have you. [00:01:39] Speaker A: We like having a chat. Yeah, it's kind of known for it. [00:01:42] Speaker B: Good, good. We've got our morning coffees ready to go. We're ready to rumble. Is that what you've got in that sparkly cup? Is yours coffee or what do you. [00:01:50] Speaker A: Got in that crazy vodka? Where are we at today? [00:01:55] Speaker C: Actually, it is just water. [00:01:57] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, okay. [00:01:58] Speaker C: Boring. [00:01:59] Speaker A: I. I chose this cup because it reminds me of Dennis, because It's. [00:02:03] Speaker C: Oh, nice 100. Brilliant. [00:02:07] Speaker A: Yeah, he did bring the love feathers and all. Louise, we're going to unroll. Sorry, Unpack your. Your entire story. It's very. Sorry, I just need to excuse Justin and I. We had a late night podcast last night with Matt and Nick and Jim joined us, of course, and it feels like we haven't left studio, so I'm sorry if we. If we muddled things up a bit today, but Louise, just, you know, for everyone listening along before we say good morning to them, what's the 62nd version of who you are and what you're known for? [00:02:36] Speaker C: Yeah. So, Louise Sedgman, equine pet and people portrait photographer and photography educator. I enjoy photographing people and their horses mostly also photograph dogs seasonally. Obviously down here in Victoria we have a winter season that's not great for horses. And I love teaching workshops to enthusiast photographers, work their way through to professionals and yeah, I'm pretty passionate about it. [00:03:02] Speaker A: Wonderful. Well, we're going to have a look at some of your workshop photos because of course you ran a workshop during bfop. You ran two, didn't you? Yes, two workshops over the weekend. So we will get into that. [00:03:13] Speaker C: Yep. [00:03:14] Speaker A: So you've been very busy. That's why we didn't see you much until the after party. [00:03:18] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:21] Speaker A: But before we get into that. Good morning boss. Did you want to say good morning to some peeps in the chat? [00:03:26] Speaker B: Yeah, there's tons of people here. Of course, there's the one and only Dennis Smith. Warm feeling, knowing this is going to be part of my morning. It's good to have you here. I've got this cup and Lisa Leach is here in for my third dose of the camera live this week. Morning guys. And Louise. Yeah, sorry, sorry for ruining your weekly. It mustn't be very productive this week. [00:03:47] Speaker A: Good morning. Paul. [00:03:48] Speaker B: Julie Powell, Good to see you. David Mascara from San Francisco. Hey David, as always. Rick Nelson. Lucinda. Good morning crew. It's almost like you did a 12 hour live stream. Yeah, we're thinking about it one day. Just stay on here for a full day, see what happens. Philip Johnson, Good morning. And apparently our podcast numbering is out of whack due to the beef up live streams that we did. But you know, that's, that's what happens. That's it. [00:04:15] Speaker A: I don't know where you got 126 from. I did not send through information for 126. It's like you guys just made that up. [00:04:21] Speaker B: It's at the top up there. And Nick, 100. Haha. Good morning guys. Greg, when I sent you that text I completely forgot you guys were on here this morning. So good morning. Looking forward to the show. Well, great to have you. [00:04:33] Speaker A: Okay. We've been talking about time. Nick and I've been talking about time lapse and he does a lot of time lapse and we think about maybe getting some, getting some content for the show at some stage about time lapse. So stay tuned for that one. [00:04:47] Speaker C: Amazing. [00:04:48] Speaker B: We've also got Jesse in the chat. Good morning. Louise is my favorite photography teacher. [00:04:54] Speaker A: Is that one of your daughters? Did you pay your daughter to do that? [00:04:59] Speaker C: No. No one was paid in the making of this podcast? [00:05:02] Speaker A: No. Okay. I can attest to that. [00:05:04] Speaker B: No, I don't want to have. [00:05:06] Speaker C: But no one put their hand up. [00:05:08] Speaker A: So. Yeah. Oh, look, sometimes you just gotta buy. [00:05:11] Speaker B: Fans, you know, Nick Fletcher has accounts that he has that he. Where he writes from other names and he's just like, wow, Nick is the best photographer in the world. That Nick Fletcher guy is so amazing. So if that's one of yours, then well played. But otherwise, if, if Jesse is indeed a real person, then that's very cool. [00:05:30] Speaker C: Jesse is indeed a real person. Yeah. [00:05:32] Speaker A: All right, we'll take you get a couple of freebies, but then we're going to start to doubt you. [00:05:37] Speaker C: Yeah, that's okay. [00:05:40] Speaker A: Robert Varner's in the house from New Jersey. Have you slept at all? [00:05:44] Speaker B: Hang on. So, Robert from New Jersey. Hi from New Jersey. Good morning to you. It's now evening in New Jersey and then Fenwick Stud, Vicki J. [00:05:52] Speaker A: Here. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Just have to shout out to Louise for the amazing community she has created. She goes above and beyond regardless of where you are on your photography journey. [00:06:02] Speaker A: That's lovely. [00:06:04] Speaker C: I think you're pretty awesome too. [00:06:07] Speaker B: What a great way to. [00:06:07] Speaker A: I don't think we need to be here, Justin. I think we'll just reply to comments. [00:06:12] Speaker B: About how amazing Louise is. [00:06:16] Speaker A: All right, let's get stuck into your story. Louise, obviously we've, you know, we, we've met briefly at BFOP and we had. You and I had a great chat up at Red Earth Lodge. We won't disclose all of the details of that, but we do want to hear your story and I know how much you like to have a chat. Before we get into your current practice, can we roll back the clock just a little bit to your early inspirations? You know, growing up, I know you were, you were an artistic kid, but can you talk to us about that for you and how that led. How your love of art and drawing horses, how did that lead to photography for you? [00:06:54] Speaker C: Yeah. So as a kid, my mum tells the story because I'm obviously, I was too young to remember, but she tells a. That I used to draw stick figure horses before I could write my name. So horses have been, I guess in my soul, for want of a better word, since I was born. And it's odd because the rest of my family are not horse people at all. So it was just me. [00:07:18] Speaker A: Did you have horses growing up? Sorry? Did you actually have horses then? [00:07:22] Speaker C: No, not when I was really young. I got my first horse when I was five because I badgered my mum since the age of about three. [00:07:28] Speaker A: Wow, that's pretty cool. [00:07:30] Speaker C: And I. And in full disclosure, and this is going to sound really funny, but I actually stole the neighbor's pony and brought it home. I was about five, I just started school, and so he used to tether this beautiful little white Shetland pony called Snowy on the nature strip, right? And we lived in a small country town and I just seen him there and in my mind he was unloved and homeless because he was out on the nature strip, right? And so I untied him and I took him home and then I hid him in our family area for a couple of hours. And eventually my mum come out and found this pony that I'd stolen. And that made me take him back and apologize to old Jimmy Faulkner, whose pony he was. [00:08:22] Speaker A: Oh, Jimmy. [00:08:26] Speaker C: And it absolutely broke my heart. So I think my mum knew then that it was inevitable there was going to be a horse in our family. And then it wasn't long after that we bought actually a horse through my cousin and she started that journey and I was five and a half or something like that. Wow. And it went from there. And then the art stuff. I've always been a bit arty fighty. And so through high school, I did a lot of art stuff, a lot of life drawing and creative stuff. And then I started having lessons with an artist down in Frankston and drawing horses in pastel. And I just found that the content in magazines and things at the time was limiting. I couldn't find exactly what I wanted to draw. So my mom, for my birthday, I think I was 20, 22, something like that, 23, decided to buy me a camera, which was a Minolta film camera. So I got this camera and I used it on auto for a while and decided that auto wasn't, you know, enough. So I joined the local camera club, the Warrigal Camera Club. And I'm still a member today, so. [00:09:35] Speaker A: Wow. [00:09:35] Speaker B: Really? [00:09:36] Speaker C: My best friends come from that camera club. Yeah. And that changed the trajectory of my life, really. Which sounds all very dramatic, but it really did. I was. We were lucky in the club that we had some professional photographers, so Roy Berryman, Ruth Burley and a few people that were very big in the industry at that time. Roy had Roy Lane's Photographic studios here in Warrigal and a store, and they sort of took me under their wing and they just guided me. And initially, for probably the first 10 years, it was a hobby that I loved, but I did immerse myself in it and. And then in 2008, my best friend Ruth said to me, you should have an Exhibition. And I'm like, I don't know anything about an exhibition. She's like, well, I can help you with that. So I had my first solo exhibition in 2008. So I kind of, I got an ABN then because I was selling stuff. So I sort of see that as the beginning of the, the career as such. [00:10:34] Speaker A: And what do. Did you have a trajectory before you found photography? What? You know, did you want to continue to be an artist or was there something else in line for you? [00:10:45] Speaker C: Yes. So when I left high school I actually did signwriting. So I went to trade school and worked as a sign writer for a few years. But it was right when the transition was happening between sort of handwritten signage versus computer generated plastic lettering basically. [00:11:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember when that change was happening and there were, there was a few guys around Bendigo, where we are, that were just. They still had that skill of being able to. They would rock up to shops and paint stuff on the windows for like they were having a sale or Christmas time or whatever. That seems all gone now. [00:11:25] Speaker C: Yeah, it's all skill. Really sad, but that's what I was into. So I loved the skill and the brushwork. That was my passion. The computer generated lettering. I totally get how progress happens, but it just wasn't for me. So I decided to get out of that. And then I started a career. I got a job working in a family run hardware store which was a fairly big chain all through Gippsland and Melbourne. And yeah, I worked for them for 15 years. I was the manager of the paint department. So. And I prior, just 12 months prior to that I was doing house painting. So I was all into the. I was a bit of a tradie for a long time. [00:12:08] Speaker A: It is interesting you talk about that. Yeah, it is interesting you talk about that, that transition from analog to digital. And obviously we've referred to, you know, from film to digital and. And now we're looking at digital to AI. There's all these, these changes happening. But rolling back, I probably was studying around the same time as you because I studied industrial design and I wanted to be a designer and illustrator because I love to draw since I was a kid. But back then I was telling My son, who's 14 now, Brendan, I was saying because I was showing him these on social media, these digital plotters that they now use to plot, you know, to create plan drawings of products and buildings and, and it's all, all these digital mapping and I think I used to have to do that by hand. I used to have A. I used to have like an AO drawing table with the T square on it on the sprung hinge. And so I, I used to do plan drawings by hand. And then as we finished our, or as we moved into our third year cad, computer animated design had only just sort of really broken through and became sort of a, you know, a commercial product. And, and we started to learn that and I was just completely lost. You know, I was right on that, like you, right on that transition period between two generations of a creative process. And, and as a result I found it hard to become an artist because there were these younger emerging artists that were doing it quicker because of digital. You know, they were creating digital work. So it is interesting and it's interesting like we go through these generations in the creative fields, like I said about going from, you know, film to analog film to digital, but now we're swinging back. You know, there's, there's a resurgence in film again and I also see a bit of a resurgence in, in the art space too. But, but yeah, just, I'm a big. [00:13:55] Speaker C: Believer in the, you know, our society's been so fast paced the last few years and technology's become so advanced and now with AI, I, I think there is going to be a big swing back to those traditional processes, traditional conversations, traditional communication and connection with people because we're actually learning now how much we crave it. And photographically, there's potentially a whole generation out there that don't have a record of their life. And if they do, it's either on a floppy disk, a DVD or a CD or some hard drive that's not being seen and it's not potentially going to be able to be seen in the near future. [00:14:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it'll be like, you know, when they, when they find like an old trunk, someone's old trunk in an estate sale and it's full of, full of film and that hasn't even been processed yet. And then they go, and someone. Yeah, someone takes it away and, and all of a sudden all of these details of, of this person's past come to life that were just sitting. And who was that female photographer, Justin, we talked about a few weeks ago where no one knew that she was a photographer until after she had passed away. They, in her estate, they found all of these photos and film and I can't remember who it was. [00:15:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't remember. [00:15:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyway, if anyone in the chat knows what I'm babbling on about, please. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Stories, Stories are always crazy when they, they find this person was like A brilliant artist and, and documenter of. Of their world. But they. No one had any. No one, no one had seen the work. Yeah, yeah. [00:15:28] Speaker C: Was there a documentary made about someone like that? [00:15:31] Speaker A: Yeah, there probably is. I don't know if there's one about Vivian, but Paul and Rick have both said, yeah, it's Vivian Mayer. Yeah. Like just a completely. [00:15:39] Speaker C: Sure there is documentary about it. [00:15:41] Speaker B: Documentary. [00:15:41] Speaker C: I think so, yeah. [00:15:43] Speaker A: It might be worth a look. But I mean, that's often the case, especially with, with women in particular fields like this, you know, where they, they're not. They weren't valued back then for what they created, so. And yeah, Dennis says the doco is amazing, so to check it out. [00:15:59] Speaker C: Yeah, it is amazing. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Before we get more into your photography, can I ask you this? Because I'm always curious about people who studied art. Do you still paint and draw? [00:16:10] Speaker C: No. I don't either and haven't for a long time. I do. Look, I love to work in all different mediums and I, I pretend that I like to sculpt and, and work with clay and do stuff like that. [00:16:25] Speaker B: You pretend that you like it or you pretend? [00:16:28] Speaker C: I pretend to do it. I don't get to do it though. Like I. So if I, I don't like the word trying too much so. I mean, you either do or you don't. Right. Instead of trying, I, I just find that my world is busy and with kids and family and building my business still and career and. And I'm on, I'm on trajectories that are taking me away from that. Hands on a little bit. [00:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:56] Speaker C: But I'm also on this bit of a journey to come back to it in time. Like I'm. I'm sort of flowing with how things are. I've got some, some cool stuff coming up in the future that I'm, you know, hoping will inspire me creatively and I'll be able to get back to that grassroots kind of stuff a little bit more. [00:17:16] Speaker A: I think that's great. I think it's important to not lose sight of that. [00:17:20] Speaker C: Yeah. And I've always dreamt of having an exhibition of like a multimedia type stuff. So I love the thought of combining photography with paint and with, you know, all kinds of different texture mediums and things like that. And it's, it's in my head on my to do list. So it will happen eventually. It just, I think whilst I'm in this big growth phase. [00:17:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:44] Speaker C: There hasn't been time for me and creative stuff that I want to do, but it's it's never leaves my head. It's. It's something I think about regularly. [00:17:54] Speaker A: Yep. [00:17:54] Speaker C: Yep. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Very cool. [00:17:56] Speaker B: Okay, what about. Oh, maybe I should save this for later. Okay. Um, so you said your first camera was a Minolta film camera. Do you remember what your first, like, the first digital camera was when you. [00:18:11] Speaker C: Saw a Nikon D90? [00:18:13] Speaker B: D90. [00:18:14] Speaker A: Nice. [00:18:16] Speaker B: So what point were you at when you bought that, when you were like, all right, it's time to. Was it like, I need to level up? Were you. Do you remember when that was? When did the D9? [00:18:28] Speaker C: Oh, I really don't know. It was a long time ago. [00:18:34] Speaker B: It was. So it was August 27, 2008, that the D90 come out. And you said 2008 was about when you registered your ABN. [00:18:44] Speaker C: Yeah, thereabouts. [00:18:46] Speaker B: Yeah. So was that kind of an inflection point of, like, all right, I'm taking this more seriously? [00:18:51] Speaker C: Definitely. [00:18:52] Speaker B: Let's go. [00:18:53] Speaker C: Yes, 100%. And I did capture my exhibition images that year with the D90, so I must have got it when it first come out. And I look at those images now and I can see the flaws, but they were still good photos from a technical point of view, you know, because I do heaps of stuff. I push boundaries with photography all the time and love shooting in the dark handheld and all kinds of crazy stuff. And I love to see just how hard I can push things before I stuff it up. [00:19:24] Speaker B: So. [00:19:24] Speaker C: So I did push a few boundaries, and a lot of the images are a bit noisy and grainy, but then, does that matter? No, I'm not. [00:19:31] Speaker A: I don't think there's ever such a thing as a bad photo, to be honest. Prove that wrong. [00:19:39] Speaker C: I don't get precious about. Obviously, an image needs to be sharp where it needs to be, but if you look back through history, there was this beautiful softness about photography that, you know, we get a little bit hyper vigilant about sharpness today and clarity and. [00:19:57] Speaker A: And especially canon shooters. That's a fair point. And actually, there's some. There's some artists on Instagram that I've just started following, and obviously my algorithm is now feeding it to me, where it's just that there isn't that hyper sharpness. There's almost like a. It's almost like they've softened it a little. And it's hard to tell if it's actually a photo. They're fairly minimal shots, but it's hard to tell if it's actually a photo or a drawing, but it's really softened it down. And they're really appealing because when you're scrolling through your doom on your phone, that's the sort of some stuff shows up, some stuff just looks like the same as the last one. And then all of a sudden you get something that's unique and different, makes you stop. [00:20:39] Speaker C: Often when I do workshops, I'll encourage people to play with panning and embrace a little bit of imperfection and. And sort of enjoy the challenge of creating something that they're not quite sure how it's going to turn out. It's not predictable. It's about, you know, going with the motion and the flow. And I love doing. I don't do a lot of multiple exposure stuff, but I love it. I love light painting. I love working in the dark. I love working with shadows. It's funny because I spend a lot of time concentrating on the light only to realize that the shadows are just as important. So I spend a lot of time looking at shadows now and stuff and working in darker, you know, environments and spaces. And I really love. I love that. [00:21:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Have you ever done a collaboration with our friend Dennis Smith, talking of light painting? [00:21:29] Speaker C: I haven't, but I'd love to discredit your rules. [00:21:32] Speaker A: I'm just saying, is that. Is that a collab, you know, with a horse that you'd be. [00:21:35] Speaker B: I was going to say imagine Dennis Smith just going bananas around a horse. That would be exciting to see. [00:21:41] Speaker A: You have to have a pretty. [00:21:41] Speaker C: I have some ideas about that. I might run that by Dennis one day because I do have some ideas about creating a body of work with light and a horse. [00:21:53] Speaker A: I love dropping these little Easter eggs for Dennis. Just a little tease. Oh, have you thought of doing this collab? [00:21:58] Speaker C: You've ever thought about it, Dennis? [00:22:00] Speaker A: No. [00:22:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I think there's a lot of, you know, thought that would go into that. And. And with. When you're working with horses, there's a lot of preparation behind the scenes. So, yeah, it's just about having that thought bubble. And I have to be honest, I get really. So my creative mojo stays well and truly alive and well, because I think about all the crazy, cool things I can do with a horse that are so outside the box that you normally potentially wouldn't even put a horse in that scenario. But if I can do it in a really safe, really calm, well controlled way and create something really incredible from that, that thrills me. So if I can spend six months working with a horse owner and their horse to prep the horse in readiness for what we want to do. I love that. It's the best. It's the best. [00:22:53] Speaker B: Okay, so speaking of approach, I was just going to say, so that, is that how you approach a lot of, I guess you're more project based work like that is, is you come up with an idea and then you find the right horse or, or is it more someone's got a horse and they're like I want to do something special. And then you work with them to, to come up with something that would. Either, either, either. Yeah, okay. [00:23:20] Speaker C: Yeah, I do both. So often I'll have people come to me and they might have a special kind of horse or some, an idea that they've got and they want to work on it. I love the project management and the production behind shoots. I, I seriously think now I could have been like a production designer or something in a past life because I really get a kick out of the planning process. The prop sourcing, the prop building, the culmination of bringing it all together. Like the, the photo at the end is kind of just the climactic point of a big build up sort of thing. Like it's, it's the whole big picture for me. It's not just about achieving a great photo, it's how to make that photo. [00:24:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think also that the experience plays a big part. I've been sort of, you know, obviously we interview a lot of people and we talk to a lot of photographers and we, you know, obviously were bombarded with photography over befop. But you know, having spoken to Mika Boynton about some of the images, I went into the gallery in Bright and you know, she told me this story about how her and Matt were the first ones up on this mountain and, and you see right down the bottom corner, they're our car tracks. We were the first one to leave car tracks. And then you know, three hour hike to get to this spot to make sure the light was in the right place. And you know, and it was, the experience captivated me just as much as the final image did. You know, I think that's where photography, storytelling and photography is so critical. And you know, you're talking about that build up to, to a project, you know, that there's, it's an experience for you and for the horse owner and obviously for, for the horse itself. [00:24:57] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:24:57] Speaker A: Yeah. I love that, I love that storytelling element of photography and it's growing on me more and more to sort of say, but what was that like for you? How did you feel when you got to that spot? And you like, oh, my God, the sun is perfect. You know? [00:25:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:09] Speaker A: I love those stories. [00:25:11] Speaker C: Yeah. It's definitely a bigger picture. The image itself is just a small chunk of what is, in fact, a big thing for me, anyway. That's how I see it. And I like to feel stuff. I can be quite deep and meaningful, and I feel like I'm on this. I guess it's a spiritual journey. I don't know. I've always just wanted deeper. So the deeper I can. And more meaningful something is to me, the more I love it. [00:25:38] Speaker A: Yep. No, that's wonderful. It's a good place to be. [00:25:42] Speaker B: So a great. A great image that required no work may not hit you as hard as. Maybe a less great image that you put a lot of time and work into. You got a lot of connection with. Yeah. [00:25:56] Speaker C: It's the personal satisfaction of knowing that you can achieve it. You know, that you nailed something that was really technically challenging. Whether it was not even camera technically challenging. Maybe it was lighting technically challenging or location technically challenging. Like, there's so many challenges. And then you add horses. So I spend my life. I know. And Dennis, you're here listening, and I know that you probably spend your day subconsciously driving around in your spaces, looking at or seeing things where you're like, I can put a ball of light there. Oh, my God, that was amazing. To light paint. Oh, my God. Imagine that with this kind of light painting behind it. So my day evolves. Driving around, thinking, I could put a horse there. Imagine what I could do with a horse there. Imagine if I had. Yeah. Fueling up the helicopter. Exactly. [00:26:43] Speaker B: I don't think he drives around. He's actually got a chopper. So. [00:26:46] Speaker C: Correct. [00:26:47] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Flying around. [00:26:50] Speaker A: So people in Druin, if you hear a helicopter coming in low, it's just. Dennis, don't. Don't freak out. [00:26:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:56] Speaker C: But I do the same thing, you know, I drive around. My time is spent, like, even in the city. Last night, I'm like, where could I put a horse in here? How would I go about doing that? [00:27:08] Speaker B: Have you. All right, is there any shoots that come to mind talking about this right now? Anything you can think of where you put. Pulled something off where you were like, oh, I could put a horse there. And then you've. You've done that shoot, and we could actually find the photo somewhere on your website or Instagram or whatever. Is there anything. [00:27:25] Speaker A: No pressure, guys. [00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like that kind of thing doesn't have to be crazy, but just one of those things where you were like, Or. Or, I don't know, any kind of idea where you're like, I think I can do this. And then you. And then you ended up pulling it off. [00:27:40] Speaker C: Yeah, look, there's been a quite a few, and I don't. You'd have to go way back through my insta to see any of it. But I'm happ to share this story. I had this idea where I wanted to recreate a scene from Black Beauty, and at the same time, I also wanted to recreate the rider, Cock horse from Banbury Cross. Fairy tale. I had this thing about fairy tales and children's books with horses and things like that. So I met some people, got connected, spoke to them. They were really inspired. It's all about the connections and, you know, meeting the right people to get involved. None of this stuff happens. Just me. It's always a collaboration. It's never just, you know, my thoughts, my idea. It's about, okay, thought bubble, let's talk with so and so about how we can make this work and what we can do. And then they expand on it, which I'm sure most creatives do. But I had this idea about recreating this image. So it had been in my head for quite a number of years. And then I went to a VAPS convention down at. I think it was Apollo Bay at the time, which was a long time ago. And driving back through Wood End. Anyone that knows Wood End knows the big tavern at the end of the town on the western end, I think it is. And so I'd driven past his tavern a few times and thought, this is pretty cool. I wonder what I could. Could do here. And. And so, coming through. I was with my friend Ruth from Camera Club, and I'm like, I'd love to do a shoot here. This would be perfect to recreate the scene from Black Beauty of the. The guy coming out of the tavern and getting on his horse in the dark and. And, you know, galloping off. And then Black Beauty actually gets injured, and then she gets sold and. Or he gets sold. And so I'm like, I'm just gonna knock on the door. So I pulled up. The place had been derelict for years, but there was actually scaffolding around it. I knocked on the door. I could hear a radio, but there was no one inside. So I thought, oh, well, I've missed out. And then I hopped in the car and I'm like, I might just check at the information center around the corner and just see what they know about this building because it's heritage list and all that sort of stuff. And so I called in and they're like, oh, yeah, these, these couple from Melbourne have bought it a year or so ago and now they're renovating it and doing it all up. And they're there most days, like, if you just knock louder because they might be right out the back or go for a walk around it now, they'll be there. So I drove back and I knocked on the door again and I hooey, you know, see if anyone's home. No one answered. And I thought, oh, oh, well, maybe I'll just leave a note in their letterbox. So I wrote this note and I left a business card. So I'm like, hi, my name's Louise. I've had this crazy idea. Just wondered whether it would be something you guys might consider letting me do. I don't need access to the inside of your home, but I just love some lights on at night, basically. Anyway, I honestly didn't think I'd hear anything. And then two weeks later I got a phone call from the owner and he's like, sure, yep, why not? [00:30:38] Speaker B: Okay, cool. So that. [00:30:39] Speaker C: Yeah, let's do it. And so then that set about planning this huge thing. So I. I met this. This great couple, Hayden and Allison at the time. And Hayden was a pretty good horseman and he had lots of contacts. So he put me in touch with this incredible family who have been in the Australian film industry with. With horses for a very long time. And so they had the right horse. So they had a beautiful black Friesian stallion who was very fancy but also very quiet and very used to doing crazy stuff in film sets and all sorts of things. So on a Saturday night in the main street of Wood End, we had our little film crew and, yeah, we recreated a scene from Black Beauty and I looked. That was the first time I ever did something really big like that. [00:31:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:30] Speaker C: And earlier in the day we'd. I'd made all these ribbons for. To create my cock horse shoot. So we. We had a cockhorse shoot in the middle of the day using one of her beautiful horses. And I had this gorgeous woman who was a backpacker from Germany, can't quite remember where she was from, who rode this, you know, Harry, this gorgeous horse with ribbons and bells on her finger, you know, toes and rings on her fingers and all those things. And then we did Black Beauty at night in the main street of Wooden. It was raining. And, you know, the camera equipment that I had then, which I think was a Nikon D700, was an amazing camera and I still have it and I still love it, but it's probably not quite as good with low light stuff as what I'm currently using and what I'm about to start using. And so, you know, it was tricky and I didn't have a huge understanding of lighting back then. So I literally took par 38 spotlights, had them sitting on the ground with leads running everywhere. Really? [00:32:30] Speaker B: Like, yeah, like from stage lighting path, 38 spotlights. Nice work. [00:32:38] Speaker C: Yeah. And you can get like a freestanding mount thing that they can sit on the ground. So I just, yeah, plugged them all in and I shot these lights and I had Hayden trot past and park in front of on this big black Friesian horse at, yeah, 8:30 on a Saturday night in the middle of winter. It would end and it was pretty awesome. And I remember buzzing a lot about that and I've had a few crazy things like that since. But I've got bigger ideas and, and more stuff that I want to do moving forward. So. [00:33:12] Speaker A: Very cool. [00:33:12] Speaker B: I've been, I've been trawling through Instagram trying to find it, but I can't find it. Maybe it's not. [00:33:17] Speaker C: Yeah, it'd be a long way back. [00:33:19] Speaker B: I went all the way back. [00:33:21] Speaker C: Oh, really? [00:33:21] Speaker B: I went to the end. I went to the end of your Instagram. I found the, the beginning. [00:33:25] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [00:33:26] Speaker B: But I can't see it. [00:33:29] Speaker C: Nothing there. [00:33:30] Speaker B: Well, I'm just kind of. Because I don't know what the photo looks like. So I'm kind of standing fast hoping to see what you've just. [00:33:36] Speaker C: Yes. So the black beauty ones is a black horse with a guy wearing a red jacket and a black top hat. And in some of them he's carrying a lantern. [00:33:47] Speaker B: I did see with a lantern, but they were kids. [00:33:50] Speaker C: Oh yeah, that's my daughter. Yeah. [00:33:51] Speaker B: Hang on, hang on, hang on. That's not a lantern. [00:33:55] Speaker C: He might not be. He's not carrying a lantern in all of them, but he's definitely black top hat, red jacket, sitting on a big black horse with a old white building. [00:34:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I've got, I've got one of them. Hang on, hang on. [00:34:07] Speaker C: And around the same time there'll be a gray horse with a woman in a pinky purple lilac colored, big flowy dress and the horse has got ribbons all over him and. [00:34:17] Speaker B: Yeah, so this might be one of them. [00:34:22] Speaker C: Yeah, that's it. [00:34:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, hang on. So cool. So that was. You just wanted lights on in the, in the, in the house. [00:34:33] Speaker C: We waited till the sun had set and we started at twilight so that the ambient light. Light was soft enough that, you know, it would show the house lights as being on and that he would still be illuminated. And then as it got darker, I brought in the par 38s and did all sorts. [00:34:54] Speaker B: 38S, that's. [00:34:55] Speaker A: I don't know what they are. They're the ones like you can get at Bunnings and they're on, like, a bent frame. [00:35:00] Speaker B: Nah, not really. So if you like. If you've been to a band show, like it. To watch a local band before LED lights come out, they were like black tubes that were maybe like. So the tube was like this. This round. Hot lights, too. Not, not like they were hot. Warm. [00:35:17] Speaker C: They're just. Just household floodlights that you screw into your household outdoors. [00:35:23] Speaker B: Yeah, but, yeah, but the, the. But. But, yeah, in a. In a enclosure, usually if it's. If it's like a. Yeah, I know. On a stand, depending on mine. Yours. Oh, yours weren't even in. In the thing. [00:35:36] Speaker C: No, they were just the bear globe in a special socket that had a foot on it that you could stand it on the ground. Freestanding. [00:35:43] Speaker B: That's it. [00:35:43] Speaker A: Oh, amazing. [00:35:45] Speaker B: That's. [00:35:46] Speaker C: It was rough. So that. That of the lady on the gray horse. That's the horse shoot that we did the same day. [00:35:54] Speaker B: This one? [00:35:55] Speaker C: Yeah. So she had rings on her fingers and bells on her toes. And it's a shame photography, which is the great thing about videography these days. But back then I didn't have video, you know, access, and I probably had a phone, but. Yeah, you can't capture the sound. When he walked past, it was just the best sound. [00:36:16] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. Do you do any video now at all? [00:36:22] Speaker C: Little bits here and there. Privately, more so. [00:36:25] Speaker B: Yeah. It's not something that's part of your business. [00:36:28] Speaker C: No, but I've just updated my kit, thanks to beautiful Julie Kimpton. [00:36:33] Speaker B: And I was gonna say. You said. You said. You said it's not as good as what I've got or what I'm going to or something. [00:36:42] Speaker C: I haven't even. I've just got it out of the box yesterday. So. [00:36:45] Speaker B: What, what, what did you get? What have you got? [00:36:48] Speaker C: Yeah, I got a new Nikon Z8 and a new 70-200 mil lens to replace my old one that was very old and very fairly broken. So, yeah, pretty excited about that Nikon D5 body and the 70.202.8, but it was about 15 years old. It's been dropped, it's been repaired, it's had the motor drive replaced earlier this year and the contacts are wearing. So every now and then when I'm shooting it still works and it's been serviced this year. But when I'm shooting every now and then I'll get a black image and I've just got to tweak a little bit the contact and it's fine. And to be honest, well, look, it's not good, but in true me style, I never do anything by half. So I just figured look, if, if I have a fail, I mean, I'm not doing weddings, right. But if I have a fail, I've got my other like 24 to 70 that I could put on if I had to and still continuous shoot like it wasn't going to end me if I, if it failed midshoot, I would just make it work. [00:37:51] Speaker A: So you've held out quite a while before moving to Mirrorless. And how are you feeling about that jump? [00:37:59] Speaker C: I'm the last one to do anything ever, so. And I think. And I. It makes me giggle because when Lightroom first came out, I was. I've been a Photoshop user for over 20 years, right. And I, I loved it and I felt quite confident using it. And then Lightroom came out. I don't know when it came out, but when it came out, all my colleagues were jumping on the Lightroom bandwagon and I'm like, nah, I'm just going to stick with Photoshop. And I think I was in denial for probably a good 10 or 15 years about that. [00:38:29] Speaker B: Hang on. When did you start using Lightroom? Or have you. Not yet? [00:38:33] Speaker C: No, I do now. Yeah. It's a huge part of my workflow now and I love it actually very much. They complement each other, which I wish I'd known that 15 years ago, but probably 10 years ago a little bit. And then five years ago I got much more into it. [00:38:48] Speaker B: Okay. [00:38:48] Speaker C: And now it's. It's a big thing for me. [00:38:50] Speaker B: Wow. [00:38:50] Speaker C: That is when everyone else was using years earlier. So the same with the Mirrorless revolution. I decided because I invested a lot of money in the D5. Right. So I really wanted to get. [00:39:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:03] Speaker C: Everything out of it. And I bought the D5 in 2015, I think it was. [00:39:09] Speaker B: I had a D5. [00:39:11] Speaker C: Yeah. And look, it's. It's an incredible camera. Yeah. And I still love it. Like. Oh, it's. It'll be my, my go to for, you know. Well, at the moment it's my second in charge. I'm guessing the Z8 will become first in charge. But yeah, one of my kids, actually. And I've still got my D700. [00:39:31] Speaker B: Is. [00:39:31] Speaker C: On display in the studio with the mirror shut, like, locked up, and it's all sticky and awful. So it's just a display camera. But one of my kids desperately wants to photograph, so she's. She wants my D700. So it might come out of the archives, and then the D5 will become the backup, and then the Z8 will become the main. The main body. [00:39:51] Speaker A: But how are you feeling about that? [00:39:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I was. I was apprehensive. And the main reason is. And they're all a little bit superficial, I have to be honest. I love the clack of a shutter. [00:40:06] Speaker B: Me too. [00:40:07] Speaker A: Yeah, me too. [00:40:09] Speaker B: Like, I love that I put my. I'm shooting with the R5 Mark II. You won't be able to do this because you went Z8. Sorry, Julie. But I change it when I'm traveling and stuff. If I'm not working. When I'm working, I usually leave it on electronic shutter most of the time. But when I'm traveling and making images more for me, I switch it to mechanical shutter, single shot. Because I just like it to just go click. And you can feel it. And I said this to someone, and they said I'm an idiot, but I want them. You know how they put the shutter sounds in bodies? I want a haptic. I want to feel if we're getting rid of mirrors. I want it to feel like something when I press the shutter, whether it just like gives a click through my hand or something like that. I know they can do it with the iPhone. I would like that. I would really like same. [00:40:59] Speaker C: And I don't know why. It's just such a tangible thing. [00:41:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it feels like you did something. [00:41:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:05] Speaker B: I hate. I hate the electronic. [00:41:08] Speaker C: The, Like, I hate the electronic viewfinder as well. [00:41:11] Speaker B: Oh, no. I was saying the electronic shutter sounds that they put in them because they don't have a mechanical. And it's like this. This fake shutter sound. And. [00:41:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it's weird. Fuji one is terrible. [00:41:21] Speaker B: Is it? [00:41:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it sounds like a mouse squeezing out a small. [00:41:25] Speaker B: But is it the same in all Fuji cameras or do they put different sounds in each one? [00:41:33] Speaker A: I think no current gen. They're all the same because they've all got the same sensor and processor, so they're all pushing out the same stuff. But yeah, it's. It's a funny little noise. And it just doesn't. Doesn't. It doesn't feel. So I turn it off. [00:41:48] Speaker B: And especially. Have you ever Shot. Greg, have you ever shot like the D5 or those kind of cameras recently? [00:41:55] Speaker A: I've shot some old, yeah, I've shot with older cannons and yeah, those pro. [00:42:00] Speaker B: Bodies have a special, a special thunk that. [00:42:03] Speaker C: Yeah, they do have a special thumb. [00:42:05] Speaker A: You know that you've done your job. When you hear that it's like, okay, that's good. Yeah. [00:42:09] Speaker B: You know what's interesting? I used the, I used the D5 and the D850 side by side for a while and the D850 goes down in history as the best DSLR ever made. I think in terms of all round performance for what they had with tech at the time. But it didn't have the soul the D5 did in the images. And despite everyone, it was technically better. It had more resolution, it had better dynamic range. You could recover the shadows better or something. But the, the files out of the D5 at what was it, 20 megapixel or something? [00:42:45] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:42:45] Speaker B: And you could shoot it at 400 ISO for everything. And they just looked freaking awesome. And I don't know what it is about that camera, that sensor, it's just awesome. [00:42:56] Speaker C: What can I say? [00:42:57] Speaker B: It was, it was great. And because it come out and everyone reviewed it and they were like, ah, you know, the dynamic ranges and great and all this stuff. And I was like the fuck, like we're shooting weddings at the time. And I was like, they just look, it looks awesome. [00:43:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:12] Speaker B: I don't know what, what technically they weren't happy with, but sometimes you get. [00:43:18] Speaker A: Second gen Fuji sensors. Everyone, you know, like with the X Pro 2 and the XT2, like people just. There's something about those files that's just different to anything they've made since the grainier, you know, like you said, resolution's a bit lower but there's just, there's just a bit of soul and character in them that's, that's really unique. I love, I think that the. [00:43:37] Speaker B: So Dennis has brought it is. There's a very important point about the tactile feel and everything. And Dennis says the new blad Hasselblad has the weirdest delay from the button to the shutter and sound dead to me. [00:43:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Feels wrong. [00:43:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, it's, it's important that it feels like you're connected to the, the image you're taking. So. [00:43:59] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. And it was very important to me. So. Yeah. Anyway. [00:44:08] Speaker A: Congratulations. [00:44:09] Speaker B: So is that. So the, the 7200. Oh, just quickly. David mascara. Yes. The D3 also had an Epic sort of image and sensor. And that's the same sensor that was in your D700. That was just. Yeah, that was. Everyone seemed to love those sensors. I never had either of those cameras, actually. I had a D3 something, remember? What was I gonna say? The switching to mirrorless. Are you going with the. So there's 7200. Is the new Zed mirrorless 7200? [00:44:40] Speaker C: Yes. [00:44:41] Speaker B: Jimbo that comes on this show with us. One of the other hosts, he tested that for a motorbike event the other day. He loved it. That. That lens is crazy. [00:44:52] Speaker C: It is crazy. Yep. [00:44:54] Speaker B: Is that the only Z lens that you've gone with so far at the moment? [00:44:58] Speaker C: Yes, because I have a full kit of other lenses that are awesome. I've got. Well, I use the 24 to 70 for indoor stuff. I've got a nifty 50. I've got a 105 macro, and I've got a 14 mil wide that are all still. Like. The macro's probably only taking 100 photos. So, yeah, I want to be able to still use those. So I bought the adapter to be able to use those older lenses. [00:45:23] Speaker A: It's a smart way to do a transition, isn't it just. Yeah, you know, and we often say, when people say, oh, what camera should I get? What camera have you got? And what lenses have you got? And I always recommend people invest in glass over anything else. But when you've got glasses, even though it's old, it's still sharp, it's still responsive and fast and, you know, adapt it and use it if you can. [00:45:44] Speaker C: Yeah, so that's what I. Yeah, of course. And like I said, I've only. I've charged the battery, so we now have a battery charged. Don't have any memory cards, so I've ordered those. They'll come in the next few days and then I'll be able to get out and shoot. [00:45:59] Speaker A: Nice. [00:45:59] Speaker B: Is that. Hey, 70 to 200 your workhorse? Is that like your. Is that. Is that what you would say? [00:46:04] Speaker A: Pardon the pun? [00:46:06] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, I didn't even think about that. [00:46:08] Speaker C: It's definitely my workhorse. So every single photo that's been taken outdoors has been taken with my 70 to 200. Yeah, 100. I love it. [00:46:17] Speaker A: What's the aperture on that one? Is that the 2.8? Yeah, yeah. Justin, a question for you. Do you ever miss Nikon? Like, you know, Jim. Jim, obviously, he's rocking. I know he would, but, you know, Jim's rocking a. A pair of Z8s and some quality glass. Do you ever miss it? Do you ever feel like just, hey, can I swap cameras for a day? What? [00:46:44] Speaker B: How do I say this without Julie getting mad at me? She doesn't say they're awesome. No, I do. I love Nick. I would be. I would be totally at home building out a Nikon kit. I'm sure it would be fine. I miss. I miss some stuff about Nikon that they haven't resolved in the new system yet. So not, not really. I don't want to jump over to Niko because they haven't like. Yeah, they haven't updated the 28mil 1.4, which is my favorite lens. So Jim's still using that adapted. And, and I hate using adapters with primes and stuff because what was a nice neat little compact system, you put the adapter on it and then it's like further forward and leans forward and it's sort of. [00:47:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And the adapter is quite chunky. You don't realize how chunky it is. [00:47:37] Speaker B: Yeah, so. So I wouldn't because of that. Probably not. The Z8 I know would be, would be a sweet camera. It's. It's. Yeah, I've used gyms. It's. It's exactly sort of right there in all the specs and what it is. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Didn't they include the adapter in some of the early Z models? Like it was an option. You can buy it without or with. And it was Canon help those people. [00:47:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I think a lot of people. Well, the cleverest of them all was when Sony included. Included a Metabones adapter for Canon lenses. [00:48:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Early on they were like, hey, just buy this new fancy Sony mirrorless body and you can use all your Canon lenses. And I think that ended up converting a lot of like Canon users over to Sony in those early days. [00:48:19] Speaker A: Yeah, Well, I mean they were leading the charge, especially in mirrorless. [00:48:23] Speaker B: That's right. [00:48:24] Speaker A: You know. [00:48:24] Speaker B: Oh, bye, Paul. [00:48:25] Speaker A: See you, Paul. Thanks for dropping by. [00:48:28] Speaker C: Thanks for being here. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't miss it. I don't necessarily want to jump, but I know I'd be totally happy with it. The. Although the 7200 wouldn't fit in my. [00:48:39] Speaker A: Current camera bag, whereas you've got 17 camera bags, boss. [00:48:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it wouldn't fit in my favorite camera bag. [00:48:48] Speaker A: So that, I mean, I'm sure you'll owner will be pleased with that. [00:48:52] Speaker B: No Nikon Mag around the house. Nikon isn't. I find myself more often looking at it @fujifilm gfxs or dumb stuff like that. Because I think the thing with Nikon and Canon is you can, and most people are pretty confident, especially at the moment with what's out from both brands. You could basically build out a kit and other than like some ergonomic changes and stuff like that, you could build out a kit with either of those systems and be, and be fully ready to work. No problems. Neither, neither of them are like lagging behind in any area or anything like that. There's just small differences in lens choices, the way they've gone about their roadmaps and stuff like that. But, but otherwise they're both, both like once Nikon released that Z8Z9 combo was like, okay, Nikona, seriously, they're here and ready to play in the mirrorless market. [00:49:45] Speaker C: But can you really, could you look at an image taken by. And I'm not talking about, you know, medium and large format stuff, but I'm talking about like in that range of mirrorless Canon, Sony, Olympus for, you know, could you look at an image and actually tell what took that photo? [00:50:02] Speaker B: Nah, not, not a finished image. No way. When, when Jim and I were shooting weddings side by side and I swapped back and forth between systems a few times, we could see, we could definitely see the difference in RAW files that we were trying to process. And you can 100 see in the early days you're like, man, Canon shadow recovery sucks. And then Nikon had had better dynamic range, better shadow recovery, but it had worse skin tones. It was way more finicky with skin tones. Canon had perfect skin tones and so there was stuff like that. But when you're talking about a finished image of photographers actually edited and delivered, I'd have zero chance. Yeah, like no way. Even, even like printed and you know, big or whatever, we're talking about this the other day. It's so fun. You get caught up in like the current bleeding edge of camera specs and a professional knows that this new camera might help them in some way because they're, they're a high performing user. But you look back through their portfolio of amazing images from the last decade and all of that, like what cameras was it taken on? Just fades away and all the images look great and you're like, oh, I don't even remember what, you know, you're like, oh, that was on the D700 or the whatever. And it's like it doesn't matter anymore. You sort of forget about all that because the images are finished and done, but they still look great in your portfolio. So There's. Yeah, it is interesting. [00:51:28] Speaker A: It's a good point. It's a really good point. [00:51:31] Speaker C: I'm not going anywhere. I'm a nick on Lover through and through and. Yeah. Just saying. [00:51:35] Speaker B: Yeah, stick with it. Well. [00:51:38] Speaker A: Well, I mean, even if they bring out a new system, it's going to take you 15 years to adopt it, so. [00:51:42] Speaker C: That's exactly right. I'll be the last one. [00:51:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:45] Speaker B: Do you. Do you. So you don't really. It doesn't sound like you use a lot of primes. You say you got a nifty 50 in the macro. You don't use a lot of primes in your work. You don't gravitate. You've never been tempted by those kind of fancy primes. You wouldn't be tempted by Nikon's new 51.2 and the 35 1.2. [00:52:07] Speaker C: Potentially. [00:52:09] Speaker B: They're scary good. They're pretty darn good. [00:52:13] Speaker C: Pretty good, too. Any of the art lenses, I think, are really beautiful. Yeah, I would be, but I'm not a gear junkie. Like, I'm not someone that has to have one of everything in every color. And I'm not. I'm a bit of a believer that the camera that you use is the tool, but the creativity and the shot is actually more important than the gear or as important as the gear. Sometimes more important than the gear. So. And the other thing, because I predominantly did photograph horses, and I. And I mostly worked with only horses right up until probably five years ago. Go. The work. The. Using the 70 to 200 just gives me a nice distance because obviously there's a massive safety factor when working with horses. [00:53:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:05] Speaker C: And as soon as I bring the camera to my face, I'm oblivious as to what's happening around me. So just having that little bit of distance. So if I were to use, you know, 50 mil, 35 mil or anything like that, I've got to go in closer. I've got to move a lot more to fill the frame. There's not a lot that's overly controlled. Like, I often work in unusual spaces where I'm jammed up against an electric fence trying to fit what I want into the scene. So having that zoom range is. Just gives me that bit of flexibility. And honestly, I cannot fault the 70 to 200 mil, 2.8. And I cannot imagine anybody that's ever used them would, because they're just an epic lens. [00:53:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:47] Speaker C: Epic games for wedding photography, for portraits, for sports, you know, everything. Just. [00:53:53] Speaker A: I think it's also important to. To recognize that You're a working professional photographer. You know, you've got, you've got a client base, you've got, you know, you've got an email list. You, you've got these. The camera is just another tool. It's, it's a business expense. And, and, you know, granted, you've probably got more out of that depreciation than anyone else I know, but it's, you know, choosing a brand of hammer or a nail gun, like it's just a tool and it's got to work for you and it's got to feel good and deliver what you need it to deliver. [00:54:24] Speaker C: Next time I take it in, I'm going to ask what the shadow counties, because I actually don't know. And the 70 to 200 mile, 70 to 200. I took it in probably five years ago because I normally get it all cleaned and serviced every year. And I took it in and they, and the tech guy came out when I come to pick it up and he goes, can I ask you something? And I'm like, yeah. And he's like, I pulled a hair from the inside of your lens out. How did you get a hair inside your lens? [00:54:54] Speaker A: Was it one of your hairs? [00:54:56] Speaker C: No, no, it wasn't. And he's like, it's some sort of animal hair. And I'm like, I'm a horse photographer. And he goes, oh. He's like, I am still. Stuff like this thing's dust proof and you've got a whole hair inside the freaking lens. [00:55:11] Speaker A: That's amazing. [00:55:12] Speaker C: I don't know. So I'm very good with my gear and I keep it clean and it's always very well looked after and, and all of those things. And I keep moisture absorbers in the bag and I do all this stuff, but I still work in dusty, hairy, you know, environments that are a bit insane sometimes. [00:55:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:34] Speaker B: If you ever looked at the shutter, Louise's old lenses, you could, you can hit her up on Instagram. They're well looked after. Not very hairy at all. [00:55:44] Speaker C: They're taking a million photos. [00:55:45] Speaker B: They've been swimming photos. Yeah. Sometimes the frame is black, but that's fine, don't worry about it. [00:55:50] Speaker C: Yeah. And the back of my D. Now, in my defense, I did put. I do get the screen protectors and thank God I did because I dropped a gate latch on my D5 screen on my, the LCD screen on the back and shattered the glass protector a little bit. It's still on there. I still use it, but it's like, it's war wounds. [00:56:11] Speaker A: We'll send you a new one. It's the least we could do. But have you ever looked into me? [00:56:17] Speaker C: Tells a story of use. [00:56:19] Speaker A: It does. Yeah. [00:56:19] Speaker C: It's like my shutter release cable stuck together with yellow electrical tape. [00:56:24] Speaker A: Yeah, whatever works. Just a question about Lightroom. Were you using Lightroom? What came first, the lens or lightroom for you? That lens. The lens. I was going to say, you know, if you look. Because every now and then I'll go back into my Lightroom catalog. Catalog and look at old cameras and lenses that I've shot with in the past and it always blows me away. You can get that little time capsule as well as some, you know, some stats on how much you've used it. Some of them have been used shamefully very little times. [00:56:51] Speaker C: But yeah, it's well, well, well used. [00:56:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:58] Speaker A: Yep. [00:56:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:59] Speaker B: Very cool. [00:57:01] Speaker A: Let's talk business. You. You run a number? Well, I guess your. Your website's kind of broken into three elements. There's your creative side, which is workshop, tutorial, and instruction. You've got your photography element, which is portraits, dogs, and equine. And then you've got Santa photography. Tell us a bit about your work with Druin, with the local drawing community. Doing Christmas photos. [00:57:27] Speaker C: Yeah, so I'm in my. This is 11 years this year and I do Santa photos in my home studio. And yeah, we. We run all November and all December, every Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And it's intense and it breaks me. And every year I question whether I'm actually going to be doing this again. [00:57:50] Speaker A: You forget by the next year, don't you? It's a long. [00:57:52] Speaker C: Like having a baby. Yep. Those hormones kick in and you just completely forget about everything. How much of it? [00:57:58] Speaker B: Yep. [00:57:59] Speaker C: Yeah. And look, the Santa photos. It's almost this entity unto itself. I don't market very much for it. I certainly don't pay for marketing. We have a fairly big client base and a fairly vibrant Facebook community, but it's only seasonal. Like, I literally do not touch the Facebook page from January to September. [00:58:23] Speaker A: Y. [00:58:24] Speaker C: And then September I start getting active in there again. And then we have a mailing list that we mail out to and a VIP list. So we book out probably 75% of our sessions to our VIP list. [00:58:38] Speaker A: And a follow up question. Do you wear an elf costume? [00:58:41] Speaker C: No. [00:58:43] Speaker A: Come on, Louise. Your heart's just not in it. If you're not dressed up as a. As a reindeer or an elf. [00:58:49] Speaker C: I usually do wear some sort of Christmassy shirt that's bright and colorful. And I do wear antlers like you know, yeah, I do get into it, but I don't dress as an elf. [00:59:03] Speaker B: Let's, let's get into the nuts and bolts of this because I think this is something that a ton of people could potentially try in their own area, in their own town. It's one of those things. It's like, it sounds like it's a lot of work, but it is a short period of time. So even if you have a full time job or something like that, if you can block out some time around the Christmas period, you could potentially run this and then pack it away and not worry about it till the next year. Let's talk about everything in terms of you. You've obviously got a reputation now. Like you say, you built it up, you booked them out. But if, if someone was starting from scratch, how would you recommend they give this a go? If they're confident with their photography, that's not a problem. But in terms of how elaborate do you go on the setups? How do you find a Santa? You know, do you need all the props or would you keep it simple? What, what are your thoughts? [01:00:07] Speaker C: Well, I've got a few opinions and I feel like I need to start at the beginning to build the picture of how we came to be. [01:00:14] Speaker A: The stage is yours. [01:00:16] Speaker C: Yeah. So I think as photographers there's a few different options. So our Santa photos are literally a walk in, walkout experience. They're not a mini session. So I know there's a lot of professional photographers that do mini sessions. So they'll offer them probably some sort of package, flat rate. Customer will come in for 15, 20 or 30 minutes or so, do a family session. Photographer captures that in front of, you know, a backdrop and some props maybe, and then the client either gets to download five images or something to that effect. Right. That, that's one way of doing it and that's quite a popular way. I think the point of difference for us is we are a walk in, walkout experience. So it's a bit like going to your Westfield and waiting in the line and you walk in, you sit down, you smile, you walk out. Yeah, okay, But I'm going to go back a few steps. I'm going to go back to when we started in 2015, I think it was. Yeah, it must be because this is our 11th year. So I had a friend who was a partner at the time, business partner at the time, and very casual though. And we'd seen in our local school newsletter, because our kids went to school together, that this photographer, local to us was doing Rustic Santa photos. And we were like, oh, rustic, that sounds awesome. We love rustic because we're horse people and rah rah. So we got all excited about these rustic Santa photos and thought we could take our kids to have these rustic Santa photos. This would be great. Rah rah. And when I looked her up, she. She had Santa sitting on a bale of hay in front of a brick wall with some bunting, like, you know, merry Christmas bunting. And I'm like, it's not really doing it for me as rustic. Like, which bits rustic is it? The bale of hay that he's sitting on, that's rustic. So her and I then just kind of went, well, we could do rustic. So we had this crazy idea because we both bred Clydesdale horses. We had this crazy idea that we could photograph a Clydesdale horse in our Santa scene and have people come and have their photo with, you know, the Clydesdale and we could set it all up. So our very first year, 2015, we did it at her place, which was two doors up the road from me at the time. We did it at her place with her Clydesdale in the stable. She. So she built a stable. And we have harness vehicles, big old harness vehicles that my husband's grandfather made. So we took our lorry, which is a four wheel, small, very small though in terms of wagons, but a four wheel, fully made of timber wagon. And we parked it across the front of the stall so there was just enough room for the horse to walk in and out in a little gate. We then on the back of the lorry, we had hessian bags filled with gifts. We had a tree, we had rocking horses and all these toys on the back of the lorry. Then we had a heap of bales of hay and like a nice triangle. So. And Santa would sit on the bales of hay because it was important that he had a backrest that he could sit properly. At the time, Santa, that was my dad. And so he played Santa for me for the first X amount of years. And. And then he had some health problems and he wasn't able to do it anymore. And now I've got new. Two new Santas that are amazing and wonderful to work with. But going back those early days, you know, we had the horse in the stable. We literally just put it out on Facebook. Hey, anyone want to Santa photo? I think we're charging like 25 or 30 bucks or something. Walk in, walk out. No bookings, just come. And so that first year, we probably did maybe 200 families or so maybe three. I can't remember exactly, but there's no booking process. It was all just cash. It was mad, right? [01:04:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:11] Speaker C: The second year we did, she then obviously could see the potential in that and built a little barn, tiny little barn, out of bluestone and all recycled materials. And so then, yeah, she went to this vehicle auction of old vintage vehicles and for a thousand dollars bought this old vintage truck that wasn't going. It was just a truck body. And so we managed to get that into this Vine. And the second year we ever did had, you know, Santa sitting on the back of a ute, an old ute, and that was really popular. Then the third year we had another horse in the same, which was a yearling Clydesdale cult, of all things. And that year, so our third year, it was insane. And I honestly can't remember how many people we photographed, but I remember the pressure and the stress was phenomenal. And I nearly had a breakdown numerous times because we still weren't doing bookings. There was still no systems in place. We didn't know that it was going to do what it did, but it just went nuts. We literally had people coming from all over the state to come and have a Santa photo with us. [01:05:28] Speaker B: Wow. Was it still $20 at this point or there? [01:05:33] Speaker C: I think we've increased our prices to 40. [01:05:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:37] Speaker C: So 40 bucks for a single photo. You come in, you sit down, you take a piece of paper, what photo you want in terms of an 8 by 12 or. I think there was three options. And then I take the photo, I go home, process them all and get the prints ready. And then the following week they come back and pick them up. [01:05:52] Speaker B: Right. And no, no digital files. Just. Just a printed photo. [01:05:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Because I'm a print advocate, so I'm a bit funny about the sale of digital files and things. One, for lots of reasons, you know, they often just end up sitting on a hard drive and never get seen. And I like the tangible product. So initially no digital files. Then we did one year it was all digital files, and then we went back to print and digital files. And currently it's print and digital, so they get to choose. But in that third year, we realized that her and I have very different values about things and the business. You know, she wanted one thing out of it and I wanted another, and we went our separate ways. Unfortunately, not amicably. And so. And that's fine. I. Because she wasn't a photographer, I continued on doing them here at home. But that third year made me realize that having a Horse in the actual Santa scene is completely impractical. [01:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:49] Speaker C: And as much as I'm a horse lover, there's actually a lot of people out there that don't love them, are terrified of them or. Well, they are. And we're talking Clyde style horses too, so extra big. And so after four weeks of doing Santa photos, the horse, he didn't want to eat the feed anymore. And because it was being used, we were using food to keep him in one spot for the photo the whole time. You know, then that cycles through their system and they get quite rich manure. I cannot tell you how many dads. If Charlie pooed in the stable, the dads would be like. And be gagging. Leave the building. And we're like, come on, people. It's not that bad. [01:07:30] Speaker B: Yeah, it was that bad. [01:07:33] Speaker C: It was that bad. See, I'm used to it. I don't care. [01:07:35] Speaker A: I like the term rich manure. [01:07:37] Speaker C: Yeah, it's very rich. Yeah. And the dads would gag a lot. And so I realized then and there that it's just, you know, from a welfare point of view of the horses, you know, doing it for an hour or so, but we couldn't do the volume of people that were there. So we had the queue at one point was full four hours long for four hours. It was 35 degrees this particular Saturday night. And we had a gentleman pass out in the queue and we had to ring an ambulance. And it was that point that I realized, this does not work. [01:08:12] Speaker B: Y. [01:08:12] Speaker C: It's a great concept. It needs a lot of work. [01:08:17] Speaker B: Wow. [01:08:19] Speaker C: So then we went our separate ways, and then I revamped the whole thing and started doing it from my studio here. I introduced a booking system. I'm. I'm not financially as driven as what she was, so for her, it was often all about how much money could be made, regardless of the consequences or anything about that. Whereas for me, I'm like, well, actually, that's not practical. We can't photograph 10,000 people because we don't have the facilities, the systems, the processes in place, anything. And so I scaled it. I didn't scale it back. I. I photograph more people now than we ever did. [01:08:57] Speaker A: Yep. [01:08:57] Speaker C: But it's all done very organized. So the weight now is maximum 15 minutes. [01:09:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:04] Speaker B: Oh, that's cool. [01:09:04] Speaker C: Yeah. So most people. And you know, it's hard sometimes I'll just walk straight in. It's much more organized. But at the same time, we've come up with a system that still allows it to flow somewhat. So if someone's because the thing is, right, you can't predict how kids are going to behave in front of Santa. Some kids are terrified of Santa. We. And we've seen it all, like, learn a lot about human behavior. You learn a lot about psychology. You learn a lot about how to think quick and work quick. When you're doing, you know, 50 families in an hour, so maybe not quite that many. It's probably 25 families in an hour. [01:09:44] Speaker A: But still a lot. [01:09:45] Speaker C: Yeah. When you know that you've got people outside waiting, you. You have to be a really good people person. So for me, I'm fairly vibrant most of the time, and I don't know how exactly I do it, but I seem to maintain my energy levels enough throughout every session that everyone gets the same experience. And it's our attitude, like our Santa and. And our front of house staff and me as the photographer because I shoot nearly every session unless I'm away for whatever reason, which I won't be this year. So it'll be everyone. It's about keeping that energy level up. And when they walk in the door, they expect the same enthusiastic, hey, come in. [01:10:30] Speaker A: Because they've talked it up on the drive over with their kids. [01:10:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a big thing. It's a big family moment. It's a big. And then the kid cries. [01:10:38] Speaker C: Yeah, that's right. We've. We've seen it all. Oh, my God. If I. If I could tell the stories. If I had a dollar for every story that I could tell about Santa photos. It's insane. [01:10:47] Speaker B: I'll give you a dollar for every story. That's a gold podcast. [01:10:51] Speaker A: Yeah, we just start a whole podcast. [01:10:52] Speaker B: We'll do a whole podcast on Santa. [01:10:55] Speaker C: We've had. So we've had birth announcements, announcements, wedding proposals. [01:11:00] Speaker B: Wedding proposal with Santa. [01:11:02] Speaker A: Oh, that just feels like they're banking all of their events into one. Chris. Engagement. [01:11:08] Speaker B: That's the cheapest way to get engagement. Like surprise engagement photos. Done. 50 bucks for a surprise engagement? [01:11:16] Speaker C: Actually, it's 85 now. Okay, we're 85 for a photo now. [01:11:21] Speaker B: Sorry, you go first. [01:11:23] Speaker A: I was just gonna ask what is harder to photograph? Dogs, children, horses, or adults? [01:11:35] Speaker C: It's funny you say that, because I. I find that there can be tricky scenarios in every single one of those. Like, I don't find one any harder than the other. And I mean, I've been doing it for a long time, so I'm pretty good at working with the kids now. Yeah, I've always worked with horses, so I understand equine body language. And behaviors. So I find that fairly predictable and easy. Adults, most adults are pretty good, but you do get people that are really self conscious, hate having their photo taken or are just not relaxed in front of the camera. So then it's up to me to make them feel relaxed. But I feel like I've got a reasonable handler. So I don't, I don't know that I have any. That I would say are harder than the other because you'll encounter tricky scenarios in all of them and you'll encounter. Like, for example, I've just done a project that I'm currently working on, which is Golden Oldies, the Senior Dogs of West Gippsland. And it's a book project and I photographed about 20 dogs in that project and not one of them had to have a lead on. Out of 20 different dogs, both outdoors and in the studio, not one of them had to have a lead. Only one I found challenging, but he was only challenging because he was hypo and he didn't want to sit still and, you know. But we still got good photos of him. [01:12:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:54] Speaker C: So I think, you know, kids can be tricky, but yeah, you just do silly things. You just. We do. We've got stuff in. I've got a whole heap of toys and I often get the kids engaged. So I'm, I'm all about the psychology of stuff. When kids, kids come in, they're completely overwhelmed. And, you know, I don't want to insult any parents. I'm a parent as well, so I don't want to insult any parents. But often it's the parents that can potentially create the issues with the kids. Yeah, sometimes you just need to just let the kids be for a minute. Let the room go quiet for a minute. Just let them absorb what's going on and let them approach Santa, you know, and it might take a few minutes. And that's why the way we've structured the booking system is that it allows for that. So in a 15 minute time block, right. In the first 15 minutes of any hour, I have four families come in, and then in the second 15 minutes I have three, and in the third 15 minutes I have two. And then it goes back to four. So it's four three, two, four, three, two, four, three million two every three 15 minutes. Now, what that does is it allows people. So people are told, please arrive during your session time slot. Now their session time slot is a 15 minute block. [01:14:13] Speaker A: Yep. [01:14:15] Speaker C: So they come in between 7 and. Or say 2 and 2:15. That's their time slot. So as long as they arrive in that time slot, they just jump in the line with the other people that are also in that time slot, and then they come in and there'll be some families that take a minute. Some will just literally walk in, sit down, smile, walk out, and it's taken a minute and a half. And other families, you've got kids that are really tricky and it might take five or six or seven minutes. So I allow that. That's why I never wanted to give people a specific time. Yeah, there's no rock up at 5:05. There's none of that because people are not reliable. People don't show up and I don't want our flow to be disrupted because of that. So it's literally park in our car park, which is our paddock here, walk up to the admin desk. Julie's got every piece of paperwork right there in front of it, all in time order. So the person gives Julie her name, their name, she just quickly fixed through, like, five bits of paper. Oh, yep, that's them. What photo would you like today? Would you like extras with that? You know, the. The light, you know, the wait is only 10 minutes or so. And we've got other stuff happening on. We set up our driveway with all these cutout Santa things so the kids can stick their head in a hole and have a photo and the parents can do that. And we have like a little selfie booth set up. You know, it's just a backdrop hung on a top, but it's quite rustic. But I've got a whole box full of selfie things, you know, Christmassy stuff. So they go down there, they'll stand in front of the backdrop, take a million photos with their phone of their kid in front of a backdrop whilst they wait. And then as one person comes in, so I'll. I'll walk out into our admin area, grab the piece of paper. It's always the one on top. That's the order it gets kept in the order of their arrival. And I'll call their name and then as I'm doing that, I'll call the next one so that they're ready, waiting to come in. [01:16:06] Speaker B: Right. So they're not standing in line. They're not. They're not standing in line. They're. They're on a list. And then you call them and they can muck around and play with the kids and have a bit of fun until you say, greg Chromie, come on in. [01:16:20] Speaker C: That's exactly it. [01:16:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:22] Speaker B: Perfect. [01:16:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:16:23] Speaker A: Can we bring up one of the Photos, Justin, please. Of Louise's Christmas backdrops. I want to talk about props because, you know, we've interviewed people who've done a whole range of different photography that, you know, that love collecting props when it's the off season. I imagine your studio doesn't look like this so much. [01:16:46] Speaker C: It's a beautiful. [01:16:46] Speaker A: There's a look. There's a lot going on in there. [01:16:50] Speaker C: Yeah, there is a lot going on. We pride ourselves on busy, over the top. Even though the rest of my work, I try not to do that. But for Santa photos, is. Is there such a thing as too much? I don't know. Look, I mentioned before that I love the production of stuff. So this just becomes another big production. I don't do it on my own. My, you know, my team that work with me help. I've got one best friend in particular, Ruth, who I mentioned earlier, who I've known for over 20, 25 years. I call her Mum and Dad. You know, she's a big part of the thought processes. We work for 12 months in advance. So I've already got the idea in my head for next, like 20, 26. I won't instigate that yet. I haven't told anybody. And our. Our backdrops are actually highly classified, classified. So we have about 3,000 people that are desperately waiting to see what this year's is. So I can't actually. Any information about this year's as yet. [01:17:53] Speaker B: You can tell us. We won't tell anyone. Just. Just tell us. What is it? What does it look like? Come on, give us. [01:17:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I can't tell you. I can't tell you. But anyway, look, so talking about previous years and props and things, we literally have an idea and then I said about creating that in whatever means I have to. So that backdrop that you're looking at on the screen now. So the tractor that you can see is a tractor that I photographed and then I. A lot of the animals were animals that I've either photographed or my friend Ruth has photographed and given to me so that I can use in the backdrop. So the backdrop is a printed backdrop. It's 6 meters by 3 meters. [01:18:37] Speaker B: What? It's not real? I thought you had an emu. Kookaburra, Blue Healer. [01:18:42] Speaker A: Doesn't everyone draw? [01:18:46] Speaker B: I thought you just switched the horse out for five or six wild animals. [01:18:51] Speaker C: Yeah, so, no, it's all. It's all. Look, it's all a bit crazy. So the backdrop is 6 meters by 3 meters. And I wanted it. It's a bit like I wanted A really shallow depth of field, which it. I guess it's kind of given that illusion. But all the elements have been added and then everything from the tractor forward is in the studio. So on the left we've got a windmill and the windmill was spinning, so you can't see that. And that's why it's an experience. Right. The windmill, when the photo's taken, is actually spinning. [01:19:25] Speaker B: Oh, wow, that's clever. [01:19:27] Speaker C: In the back, optical illusion. Yeah, Cool. In the back you can see the emu and then there's a kangaroo bobbing down. Can you see the kangaroo on the left where the emu is? You can just see his head. [01:19:43] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:19:44] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Yep. [01:19:45] Speaker C: Yeah. So that kangaroo was a kangaroo that we made and he was actually bending up and down, so he'd come up and look at the door and then his head would turn and he'd bob down. And the little elf guy there had his hands out and was feeding the kangaroo. And then naughty. We always have naughty Elfie because he visits every year. And naughty elf is riding the kangaroo. So those little red things around the kangaroo's neck that you can see there. [01:20:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:20:12] Speaker C: Elf hanging on for grim death. [01:20:14] Speaker A: Oh, there's elves everywhere. I just realized. [01:20:16] Speaker C: Yeah, there's little elfies everywhere. [01:20:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:19] Speaker C: We have automations happening within. So the windmill was actually a functioning windmill. So that tank that you can see there has actually got water in it and there's water pouring into it from a spout off the windmill. [01:20:33] Speaker A: So it's not just setting a stage, it's creating an experience for the families, isn't it? [01:20:37] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And then the little guy sitting there, he's fishing in the water tank. We just have all sorts of. It was very organic this year. We had a lot of green. All the leaves that you see hanging off the roof are actually real, so we hung all of those. The Christmas tree rotates so we have like balancing elements on one side of the image versus the other. We've got an old wheelbarrow there with Santa's bag in it and all presents. And then I try and have some foreground interest of some sort, just to soften the concrete for floor a little bit and create that foreground interest? [01:21:14] Speaker A: No, it's well frame. It's very well framed. Absolutely. And so what do I have to do to apply to be a Santa? [01:21:21] Speaker B: Because you barely need any. You just need a red jumper. Greg. [01:21:25] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, Santa's. To be a Santa, you have to have the right personality. So personality is a big thing and it helps if you're of a substantial build, so not necessarily bigger, but taller. So my husband, bless him, had to play Santa once and he was just dreadful. Like he was the worst Santa ever because his nature is really quiet and shy. Right. And he's little, like, he's not a big bloke. So he's only, you know, probably three or four inches, maybe five inches taller than me. So he's not, he's only five foot, like probably eight, five, ten maybe, you know. Whereas Santa, I think, needs to be imposing. And we learned that very quickly because the people were bigger than Santa on that. [01:22:16] Speaker B: And it's like a little Santa. [01:22:18] Speaker C: Yeah, kinda, yeah. And he was shy and he wears glasses like 24 7, so he had to wear his own glasses. And he's. He just looks like this little frail old man looking over his glasses and he's like, hello when they come in the door. Whereas the chat that was in that photo. Dennis is one of our Santas. And I also have another Santa, Marshall, who are. They're both just brilliant. Dennis is. Ho, ho, ho, come in, come and tell me, tell me exactly what you think you might have on your list and I'll see what I can do. And. And he's quite, he's very, a bit loud and a bit, you know, jolly sort of thing. Marshall is jolly, but not as loud and, and vibrant, I guess. But he does an amazing job and he connects really well with the kids. Both of them are really good with dogs and animals. We have all sorts of animals come in, from lizards to birds to goats. [01:23:15] Speaker A: So people will bring their pets as well. Of course. [01:23:17] Speaker C: Yeah. So in that last photo, there was a blue healer sitting on the tractor. So that blue healer was actually a Santa photo client's dog. So she brought him to the studio to have a private photo shoot. Not around Santa Fe's, but every year. Tazzy books this particular her dogs and she doesn't get in the photo. It's just her two blue healers with Santa. And she comes on the first weekend every year. I really. And I didn't tell her that I'd used, I'd used him in like Burger in the photo shoot. So when she walked in, I was waiting for her to see if she noticed that that was Burger on the tractor. And she did, she did recognize it, obviously. [01:24:00] Speaker A: Dedicated to her dogs. [01:24:02] Speaker C: Yeah. Dedicated to a dog. [01:24:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:24:04] Speaker B: I've got, I've got a ton of rapid fire questions about this because I'm really interested in this. I'm like, maybe I need to do this in Bendigo this would be fun. Flash or continuous lighting? [01:24:16] Speaker C: Continuous. [01:24:17] Speaker B: Continuous. And have you chose that on purpose? Is that just the way you normally like to work? You prefer it over flash? Is it better for the kids? What are your thoughts? [01:24:25] Speaker C: Yeah, so initially when we had horses, we didn't want to introduce flash. But also we work with special needs families and some of those kids have epilepsy and disabilities that don't cope well with. Or family, you know, it could be anyone doesn't cope well with strobe type lighting. So we've always just used constant light. And I've got video lights that I set up, they're really bright and I use them as spotlights on Santa. So I've got big long snoots on them and all sorts. And then I spotlight all the other elements within the scene with little, little lights that are just spotlighting everything. [01:25:05] Speaker B: Yeah. So how, how long of a session do you run for you like, or like a. What do you call it? What's the day? What's. What are the hours that you would be booking? That's. You keep the window to two hours. [01:25:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:25:24] Speaker B: Is that because it takes a lot of energy out of everybody and you're like, after two hours, Santa's tired or you're tired or like, what for? For what reason? Rather than say, doing. Because you've got multiple days over multiple weekends, rather than doing, say, just two big long days closer to Christmas or something like that. [01:25:44] Speaker C: Santa needs to pee. [01:25:47] Speaker B: He does, right? [01:25:50] Speaker C: Yeah. So to. Every session's about 2 hours, 2 hours and 15 minutes roughly. So we. So Friday nights. Oh, actually Friday nights we do two and a half hours. Hours. We don't have any other sessions during the day at this stage. And then Saturdays it's 10 to 12:15. So at 12 o' clock we finish our regular session and then we have a special needs. So the special needs sessions come in privately when everyone else is gone and then they get 15 minutes because often the kids might have, you know, additional needs that they might be wheelchairs, might be disabilities. It could be, you know, autism and ADHD and real fears around noise and stuff. So we have to change things a little bit to cater to them. And then we start again at 2. So we stop at 12:15, we go down, come down to our house, turn everything off, come down to the house for a lunch, for an hour and a half thereabouts. And at 2 o' clock we're back into it again till 4 o' clock and then 4 till 4:15 we have another special needs. And then Saturday nights we do 6 till 7:30. So an hour and a half because we've done all day. And then Sunday it's 10 to 12, 2 till 4 or 15. And that's basically how we do it every weekend up to Christmas. So eight weeks. [01:27:03] Speaker A: And when does that start for you? [01:27:05] Speaker C: First of November. [01:27:06] Speaker A: Wow. [01:27:07] Speaker B: Wow, that's great. Okay, now, so they book in online. Do they pay online or do they pay when they arrive to you? [01:27:16] Speaker C: So they book online and they pay their $87 extra. It's $87 this year. $87 booking fee. So that covers their booking. And we've trialed lots of different things. Right. Once I had no booking. And you get a lot of no shows. Yeah, of course, then I tried having a 20 or 15 booking fee and still got no shows because $15 isn't enough for them to go. I don't want to lose that. So then we had a $50 booking fee and we found that that reduced the no shows a lot. Lot. And so then now with the system that we have, the $85 is their booking fee and one photo and they choose. So they've got an option of four different photo options. A single 8x12, four 4x sixes on an 8x12 sheet of paper, a multi which is 1681 4B6 and wallets on an A12, sorry, 8 by 12 sheet of paper or the digital file. So when they come, they've paid their $87. Julie will say to them, what photo option would you like today? I want the 8 by 12 or I want the multi or I want the digital file. And then Julie would say, would you like additional photos? How many photos are you wanting with Santa? Because often, you know, they'll want a family photo and then they'll want one of just the kids. [01:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah, that's your ups. That's your upsell opportunity community, isn't it? [01:28:42] Speaker C: Yeah. So then they have to buy another photo and an additional photo on the day is 25. [01:28:47] Speaker B: Oh, okay. That's pretty good though. So it's not. It's not much extra to get that extra photo. So now, so tell. Okay, so tell me this. I'm. I'm just. I'm just some random dad. I walk in, I'm like, yep, I got told to bring the kids here for the. The Santa. [01:29:01] Speaker A: I got told. [01:29:02] Speaker B: I got told. What world are you living in? Yeah, I don't know. I'm. I don't have kids. So I'm just pretend. I'm imagining that's what it would be. [01:29:08] Speaker C: Doing well because it has happens. [01:29:10] Speaker B: I'm sure it does actually happen. I was told to bring the kids here anyway, so yeah, we want one with me and the kids and then one with just the kids. And I need the files, but I also want the prints. How much would that be? Like, so how can you do you do that where you're like, they want the digital file and they want some prints and they want photos and you. [01:29:28] Speaker C: Just add it extra? Okay, yeah. So they pay their 80, 87. It gives them one photo op option and then any other option after that's 25 each. [01:29:39] Speaker B: Even if it's a print as well. Like if they're getting. [01:29:42] Speaker C: Okay, it doesn't matter. Yeah, 25. [01:29:45] Speaker A: Do you print all your own work for this? No. [01:29:50] Speaker B: How do you organize the prints? How do you not like mix up, you know, whose prints for who and stuff like that? That sounds like there's a lot. [01:29:59] Speaker C: It's a well oiled machine. So when they buy book. I've actually, can I. Let me grab something. [01:30:08] Speaker B: I can see your backdrop there. It's. That's very, very fancy. [01:30:12] Speaker C: Oh, it's just a black sheet. I don't know if you guys can see this. [01:30:15] Speaker B: Oh yeah, kind of. [01:30:16] Speaker C: Yeah. So this is an A4 piece of paper and on here I've got the four different photo options, so 812, 4x6 multi and the digital file. There's also a postage option. [01:30:29] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [01:30:29] Speaker C: And then down here for office use only, I've got image, file, number and my information. So. And then a little section for notes because some people will come in with a band aid on their knee and I need to photoshop that out so I can just put a note there, remove, blah, blah. And then down the bottom is a slip that we actually cut off. So it gets cut off across here and it's got their name, phone number, image number and what they ordered. And that actually goes in with every print. It doesn't go with the digital files obviously, but it goes in with every print package. So it's all about the system. So I shoot tethered and it goes straight through to a computer. And so literally, if I tell you my workflow, I literally grab the client paperwork, call their name, bring them into the studio, I sit down and I double check a couple of things. I'll often just double check the name, but I do it in a way that's not obvious. It's like, so Carolyn, tell me all about, you know, this, this or this and that. We have all these things that we say. And so that gives me a double check. And then I write down the memory card numbers. So I'll write down, I already have written down before I've even started. I'll write down the next number. That's their first photo. I've got that written down already. And then I'll take their photos. Click, click, click, whatever scenarios, job done. Once I finished capturing what they want in that moment, those files are already on the computer. And then I will flick through the back of the camera very quickly and find the best one. Right. So it's one pose. I find the best one. I just make sure everyone's eyes are open, everyone's looking, everyone's smiling. Sometimes Santa will be blinking. I'll find one where Santa's, you know, not blinking or whatever. Pick the best one. And then I'll say to Ruth, Ruthie 6789. So she'll then go double click. We have a big television screen set up in the room with us. And it comes up on the screen, they look at it and I say, this is the one we've chosen. And they'll look at it and they'll be like, oh, we love it. That's amazing. Thank you. And then I write that number down and then that piece of paper gets handed to Ruth and Ruth then keys in there like the. So the file name never changes, LSP6987 or whatever. And then she'll put a dot, the initial and the surname and then what it is they've ordered. So if it's an E it like she'll just put the letter E for email 4B6 8B12 or M on into the file name, into the file name. And then she them then she puts them into a specific size folder for that session. So every session has their folders for email multi4b6 8 by 12 folder. [01:33:22] Speaker B: And so then you've just got a folder of stuff you need to get printed at 8 by 12. [01:33:27] Speaker C: Yeah. So well then, so there's another step from there. So I have a network share set up from my studio to my house. So we're automatically, automatically sharing everything down to my computer at the house. So there's no transfer of files at all. So when I come down after a session, it's already here on my computer in those folders already file named with the correct size. So then I bring down the paperwork at the end of the session and I will do a double check. So I just make sure that the file names are correct. The what they've ordered is correct. And that's the process where I pick up any issues. And look, very occasionally there might be a number wrong or a name spelled wrong or something, but that's where I pick up issues if they've been missed, something's been missed, or something's not right. And then I have a batch process where I will edit. So everything goes to a batch process. And that batch process is set up for each size. So it'll edit the file and size the file and save it back into the folder ready to send a print or ready to send out for email. And it's all done automatically. I've set it all up so that I don't. It's all. Yeah. So every year I do a new batch depending on what the edit is for that set. Yeah, but it's minimal editing. [01:34:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, of course. And then. And then it's only those ones with specific notes where you'll. You'll actually give that particular attention because you have to remove something or whatever. [01:34:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:34:52] Speaker C: So it's a big manual. Like I do go through every piece of paper and I will tweak every single one of them. But it's a fairly seamless process now. And it works. Yeah, we have very few issues. [01:35:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:35:05] Speaker B: That's so cool. [01:35:06] Speaker A: I feel like we've just been given a master class in how to. How to run a portrait studio. [01:35:11] Speaker C: High volume. [01:35:12] Speaker A: High volume portrait studio from Santa shoots. [01:35:14] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's so interesting that you say how. Because I've seen a lot of people do the style you're talking. You mentioned the mini session style where it's like there'll be a few shots of, you know, different angles of the kids. You know, usually I don't know if you're shooting these on a tripod or handheld, but. Yeah, you're. So you're on a tripod. You're locked off. It's all very same. Same tripod is stuck to the ground. [01:35:39] Speaker C: Yeah, the ground. Because I cannot. Once I've done the very first sample photo, nothing can change in the scene. [01:35:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:35:48] Speaker C: The only thing that changes in the scene is the people and the animals that come in and out. Everything else has to stay the same. And it's all lined up within an inch of its life because the backdrop stops right where I'm on the edge of the frame. Like, everything is perfectly framed and the stuff on the foreground is perfectly positioned so that we allow room for dogs, but it's still in the shot. Like, it's all very and once that's set up, everything's locked in place. Nothing moves. [01:36:18] Speaker A: Yep. [01:36:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. And, but it's, it's a particularly. It's like a throwback like you say, to back towards the. What you would see in a shopping center, but obviously with a lot more, more of an experience. A lot more detail in the backdrop. [01:36:35] Speaker C: Correct. [01:36:36] Speaker B: Nicer photos in my opinion for people to walk away with. But rather than. A lot of people, I think have tried to do this style of thing but have fallen more towards that mini session style which can definitely work. And it. But it's a very different, very different thing. You have to charge quite a bit more because you're giving them a lot more time and you spend a lot more time in post processing. So it is very much more towards a small portrait session with Santa in some of the photos. [01:37:05] Speaker C: We actually have just done the numbers for. For. Because this year I was going to do some VIP sessions where families could come in and have a private session with Santa over say 20 minutes, half an hour. And I would have the camera on the tripod capture that main classic shot, but then I'd have a second body and photograph ad lib around the room and moving and close ups with baby and Santa and all that sort of stuff. But when I ran the figures, it's, it's actually no better off than bringing in three families in five minutes and having a 15 minute session. Yeah, the money's the same but there's more work for me. So we think what's the point? We might as well just open up an extra time slot for normal Santa photos. [01:37:48] Speaker A: Yeah. And you've got such a refined process that. [01:37:50] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:37:51] Speaker A: Disruption causes delay and all that sort of thing. Yeah, yeah. [01:37:55] Speaker B: And, and people are getting what they want out of this, so. Yeah. Why, why change it? I mean, I'm sure they can, I guess it's a Santa thing, but they can always book in an actual portrait session with you, a family session and probably get a nicer result because it's not specifically on this backdrop only. And you know, like you could, you could tailor it more to that family at a different time. [01:38:19] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. And look, I have thought about offering sessions, you know, without Santa and stuff like that, but I do get like it is busy and I don't get a lot of downtime once I start. So this two weeks right now is the busiest of the year. I'm trying to. I've literally got hundreds and hundreds of orders that I have to print off and then put into date order and time order. So that's quite a process in the weeks leading up and I've still not finished the backdrop. So it's half done, but I've still got the other half to go. And then we have to set up our property to suit. So we have to move gates and put up bunting in the car park so people don't drive over our septic and all sorts of crazy stuff. So there's a lot, a lot involved. And then hubby will put up all the boards on the driveway so that kids have got stuff to do while they wait. And you know, it's quite a process. It's not for the faint hearted. And I have to say while I think of it in my head, before I forget, it's critical doing this kind of stuff that you are very, very, very clear about educating your clients as to your process and how it works. So we've had complaints in the past. Last year was the first year I think we had no complaints at all. But when you're working with that high volume of people, you know, it's a lot of expectation to meet when you're dealing with, you know, up to 1200 families in a season. So, yeah, you know, it's a lot of people to keep happy. And we used to get the odd complaint and 99 of the time it was because they were of the impression that they were coming in to sit down and talk with Santa for 15 minutes. Because our session, they've booked in a 15 minute time slot and that was confusing. [01:40:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:40:00] Speaker C: So because they, when they book, they see, you know, 10:00am to 10:15, they think that 15 minutes is theirs. [01:40:06] Speaker A: Yeah. The time they need to be ready. [01:40:10] Speaker C: Yeah. So what I've had to do is spend a lot of time educating people about. Actually there's other families in that same 15 minutes. It's not just you. And once they understand that, they're like, oh, okay, we get it. But we have had complaints in the past because they've not. They've come in and been kicked out after five minutes or whatever. Not kicked out, but we have a flow. Right. When you work with group of people, we have this really amazing flow. So. And we have all these really subtle cues. So the kids will come in and I, I'll usher them into the room and I'll talk first. So. Hi. Hi kids. Are you ready to see Santa? Come on in. Come on in. Anyway, so they'll come in. No one else can see what's happening in the room. It's a private Closed space so no one from outside can see what's happening. And then I'm busy doing paperwork. So that's Santa's cue. Santa knows that I'm busy doing their paperwork, putting in the first image number, rah, rah. So while I'm doing that, he takes over and he'll be like, right over, right, Come and, come and sit next to me. Particularly school age kids are usually fine, come and sit here. Now can you tell me three things that you've got on your list? And he gets them thinking and while he's doing that, and so then he has that chat and then I finish doing what I'm doing and I'll just sit, sit and wait for the conversation to ebb and flow with Santa and the kids. And then as soon as I'm ready, I'll be like, right, let's get into it. Who's going first? And that's my cube. That's my way of just controlling the room and keeping things moving. If Santa's talking too much or the kids are talking too much or it's all too crazy. And then I'll direct people. So there's a lot of directing. Mom, I want you to stand here. Mom and dad sit next to Santa. Either side, kids on a knee. Or one of the kids can sit on Santa's knee. The dog can go on the floor in the front. Or if there's room on the seat, the dog can sit up next to Santa. Santa can put his arm around the dog or the kids can hold the dog. Like there's a lot of directing which happens fairly. I'm good at directing in the nicest possible way. So everything I say comes from a place of love and respect. And I honor the people that are here with Santa and I want them to have a good time. So everything's said in a fun, bright, bubbly, vibrant, come on in kind of way. And then I'll get the photos. I'm fairly efficient with that process. We show the photo on the wall every now and then often it's the mum, we'll say, I don't like my hair. Can we do that again? I'm like, sure thing. Seat, bang, bang, bang. How's this one? Oh yeah, that tips better. Thank you so much. [01:42:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:42:39] Speaker C: And then off we go and. And I'm pretty good. And Santa knows, like our way of keeping the room moving. So when I'm done and I've got the photo and they've set, signed off on it, the kids then will talk with Santa again and, and I'm still filling out paperwork, ready to give to Ruth. So Santa's entertaining them while I'm doing that. And then as soon as I'm done with that, I'm like, right, who wants a lollipop? And then I go out with a lollipop out of the studio, drag them. [01:43:07] Speaker B: Out with a lollipop, following you along outside. Oh, I love it. [01:43:15] Speaker C: That keeps it flowing very organically, but very efficiently. [01:43:20] Speaker B: It's so cool. I love hearing it is incredibly efficient. That's been refined over years, you know, like, it just. This didn't work. That didn't. We could go better with this. So, all right, so you're shooting. You're shooting tethered to lightroom? [01:43:34] Speaker C: No, no, I use RC Deluxe. [01:43:37] Speaker B: Oh, okay. I don't know. I'm not familiar with that. Is that what allows you to show it? So at the. So at the moment, there's a computer there. It's coming in onto the computer, and then you're just using that TV as a second monitor to bring the photo up or that one photo. It's not like they're seeing. They're not seeing every photo you're taking flashing up on that screen because it would distract them. [01:44:00] Speaker C: Correct. [01:44:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:44:01] Speaker C: So the screen, the big screen in the room, it's just got our rocking horse logo on it all the time. [01:44:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:44:07] Speaker C: And then Ruth would, you know, just bring in their individual photo for them to look at, and it's always gone off the screen again before the next family come in. [01:44:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:44:17] Speaker B: That's so cool. I think that's. Yeah. All right. Without getting into the nuts and bolts of. Of finances, if you just had to ballpark because you do your businesses is, like Greg said earlier, multifaceted. You do. You've got your own studio, obviously, year round, plus you do photographic education and lots of other things. Is this a significant part of your business? Would you say, like. And if so, would you ballpark a percentage of. Is it 20% of your business or 10% or 30% or. [01:44:48] Speaker C: Yeah, it's probably. I think I'm not good with percentages. It's probably actually about 40%, in all honesty. [01:45:01] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Okay. [01:45:02] Speaker C: Yeah. So I'm in the process of flipping that. So I actually want my workshops to become 40%. [01:45:12] Speaker B: Okay. Right. So. So you're trying to grow the workshop business, and. And then this would be not as big, maybe as a result, if I. [01:45:20] Speaker C: Don'T plan on doing Santa photos forever, I never have to be honest. Every year I say, I don't know if we're going to do it this year. [01:45:27] Speaker B: Wow. [01:45:28] Speaker C: It's a ton of work and a lot of work. Yeah. It really kills me. For two weeks in January, I feel like I'm just in this, you know, hazy state of non compass mentors. I literally just have to sit on a beach and just completely, you know, zone out to recharge the battery because it is intense. I love it, but it is a lot. And. And for the last 11 years, my kids, we don't do Christmas. We don't go to Christmas carols because it's always on a Friday, Saturday night. So we miss out on all of that. We don't do Christmas parties because we can never go to anything. We miss our family. Have a huge big family gathering on a Sunday before Christmas. I can't go to that. So, I mean, we miss a lot to do it. [01:46:12] Speaker B: So if you, if you cut, let's say you cut out multiple days like that where you're like, you know what? I can't do these three days a weekend for multiple weeks. Would it not be worth doing anymore, do you think? Or have you contemplated that just being like, I'm literally going to do half the amount of sessions because yeah, I'll absolutely do that. [01:46:32] Speaker C: Yeah. So every year. Yeah, every second year there's this massive equestrian event in Melbourne called Equatana. It's a big expo. It's like. Well, it used to be at Jeff Shed, now it's out at the showgrounds and it runs for four days and they get 30 odd thousand people come through the gates and it's huge. So I have a site there and I talk to people about horse photography. [01:46:54] Speaker A: Wow. [01:46:55] Speaker C: And it's all very fancy. It's like a trade show, right? [01:46:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:46:59] Speaker C: But it's all consuming and it. And it hurts my brain to do it. And it's the second weekend in November, so it always flashes. We've already started Santa photos. So the first year. So three years ago when I did the first Equatana, we just didn't work that weekend. And we did take a little bit of a hit, but not bad. And then last year we had Equatana and I decided to keep the Santa photos running. So I had a friend come in and be the photographer for me, my good friend Katie. And she did an absolutely incredible job. But I found it quite stressful managing all of that and the team did an awesome job. I reduced the numbers for that weekend, so it wasn't as busy either. It wasn't as chaotic as what I can manage. But and it did work really well, but I found it was all too much. And I've learned. And. And just on a personal note, like, I burned out so bad and I have burned out so many times that it's. It's a bit of a joke. And so I've now real. And I got really. I was really, really sick last year and not with anything scary or major, but I just seemed to get virus after virus and it all culminated at Christmas time. So I literally, I got through Equitana and Santa photos with, you know, I'd had whooping cough. We'd had Covid. Like it was just freaking everything. So I'm wearing masks all the time up there because I can't breathe on anyone. It was just intense. And I realized I cannot do this anymore. I just can't do everything. So I realized. Sorry for swearing, everyone. I apologize. [01:48:43] Speaker B: No, no, we're all about it. [01:48:45] Speaker C: Sometimes you just need to get a point across. And I'm done with that. And I was, you know, and even more personal, you know, menopause. Let's not talk about that here now. But the whole menopause thing, it was just a train wreck. And so I've just spent all of this year re railing the train so that I can function again. And it's taken a lot. So this year, coming into Santa photos. Yes. We're full steam ahead. There's no Equitana this year. We're doing the full eight weeks. However, next year I've got two big international travels planned and it's Equitana again. And I think I will probably. If we're going to do Santa photos, it won't be until after Equitana because I am not going to kill myself again. [01:49:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's fair. [01:49:37] Speaker C: So in response to your comment, in a very roundabout way. Yeah, absolutely. I think. Yeah. [01:49:45] Speaker B: And some people will be disappointed because they can't get in or whatever, but it's better than you not doing it at all. And that could be the result of burning out. Yeah, look, at the end of the. [01:49:53] Speaker C: Day, we could do extra sessions. I could open up Thursdays. [01:49:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:49:58] Speaker C: I had the demand. We. We don't open up more sessions. When we do that now. We open up Thursdays. As we get closer to Christmas, it gets busier and busier. So the sessions get a little bit longer. Often I'll have had cancellations early in the season because someone was unwell. And then I put them in in December. So then where I had 4, 3, 2, 4, 3, 2. It becomes 4, 3, 4 or 4. 3. 3. You know, like I'll fit people in. But I find the closer we get to Christmas, the more hype there is, more everyone's excited that it doesn't matter that we're busier because everyone with the Christmas flow and. [01:50:35] Speaker B: Yep. You can, you can sort of. Yeah, it's. It's cranking a bit more. It's like everyone's. Yeah. Happy to move through faster and. [01:50:42] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. [01:50:44] Speaker B: I want to ask you about. So I want to ask you about your upcoming travels for next year. But before that I want to ask you a little bit about Equitana. But before that I want to read out this comment. Sherry, Sherry, Howard says you are so organized. Louise, well done. It's been a great listen. You are very organized. It's amazing. [01:51:04] Speaker C: Thank you, Sherry. Yeah, I don't always keep organized. [01:51:08] Speaker B: Well, it sounds like you are dialed in on just about everything Robert Varner says. Don't worry, we use that word New Jersey as well. [01:51:15] Speaker C: Thank you, Robert. [01:51:19] Speaker B: It's a worldwide language. So Equitana, you go there to promote your equine photography. Is that primarily for people to hopefully book in sessions for their horse or is it also about teaching people photography in that area? Like, and, and that's probably. I'm guessing that's an expensive show to attend. Most of those sorts of shows aren't cheap. How do you decide to make a business decision like that? Because not only is it. I'm sure it costs money to be there, but then there's all the, you know, the accommodation and travel and just your time dedicated to a big weekend away. Do you find it's worthwhile in getting clients for your. For that side of the business? [01:52:04] Speaker C: Three years ago, it definitely was. It booked me out for 12 months. But last year, not as much. And I think that's just maybe economics. But also I was really unwell, so maybe I was off my A game and I didn't connect as well with people or as many people as what I did the year, you know, two years earlier. It's definitely worth being there. And I was also, I put myself out there to be a presenter at Equitana. Now apparently I've been told that someone has to die before you can get in and be a. Wow. So, yeah, so. And I was lucky enough to get in because what I do, I was doing photography related stuff with horses and it was really different. And so I'm. I was a presenter at Equatana, which is a huge thing and a bit of a career highlight even for me. To say that I've presented at Equatana. Most people in the horse world, you know, if you're a presenter at Equitana Runner, it just means that you're very good at your industry, whatever industry that is to do with horses. So I felt really proud to be there. Even though I was dying inside, I put it all off because that the show must go on. Right, yeah. [01:53:16] Speaker A: So what, what was the presentation about? Was it about the processes and, and you know, how equine photography can, you know, capture those memories, capture those moments? Is that what the presentation was? [01:53:29] Speaker C: The presentation was actually about taking photos of your horse for sale, basically. So it was an educational thing for horse owners. There's quite a number of like, platforms and magazines that people use to sell their horses and many, many, many times the photos that are used in those platforms and in those magazines are fairly ordinary. [01:53:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:53:53] Speaker C: They've also standing very nicely and literally a good photo can sell a horse entirely. So I just wanted to educate people around how they can do it themselves with their phone or with their camera, it didn't matter. And how to stand a horse correctly if they didn't know where to, where to shoot from, how to prep. Like it was just this whole 30 minute thing. [01:54:14] Speaker B: That's great. Yeah. Such a good idea to give people some skills that they can use even with their phone or whatever. Correct. Yeah. That's great. [01:54:23] Speaker C: In my mindset, they're not photographers at Equitana, they're horse people. [01:54:27] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:54:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:54:29] Speaker B: But we're all photographers these days with our phones and things like that. We all do it all the time, but. And yeah, 30 minutes of tips from a professional and you could definitely level up. [01:54:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:54:39] Speaker B: What you show on, you look at all sorts of stuff, whether someone's selling a horse or a car or something on Marketplace and you just think, oh, why do you, you just move it over a little bit or what? [01:54:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:54:49] Speaker C: Why is there a bin in the back correctly? You could have at least got a D forward. But anyway was all about that. [01:54:58] Speaker B: Well, that's awesome. And it's very cool to hear that, that those shows can be valuable business wise for photographers still because they do often seem out of reach with the way that they're priced sometimes times. And then you, you just have this feeling of like, oh, will anyone even care? Or are they just there to buy cool horse gadgets and stuff? They're not really there to you. [01:55:22] Speaker A: What's the horse gadget, Justin? [01:55:24] Speaker B: I don't know, I'm just imagining. [01:55:28] Speaker C: All right, all right. [01:55:30] Speaker B: Someone with Like a headset mic doing like the shamwow type sort of display thing. Everyone's gathered around and he's like, yeah, but there'd be that for horses. [01:55:39] Speaker C: Yeah, there is. There is that for. [01:55:41] Speaker B: Yeah, that's so cool. They're at every trade show and they must. They must make a fortune because everyone always hovers around the stand. [01:55:48] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:55:49] Speaker C: It's funny you say that. And I noticed there was a comment in the chat, I think it was from Linda. It's gone now. About being present and all of those things. On top of Equitana. So 18 months or so ago, I decided to really get into dog photography. I'd been doing dog photography for a few years prior to that and often with horse owners and their dog, you know, photograph of their, you know, so I organically did that. But last year or 18 months ago, I decided I'm going to do dogs in the studio. I'm going to get really knuckled down on. I'm going to start promoting it as something that I do. And so I set my studio up with all that in mind. And then earlier this year, there was this local little dog expo at our local community showgrounds. And so I rang the organizer. I'm like, hey, I've got this crazy idea. Can I photograph dogs on the day? And they're like, yeah, that would be great. And I'm like, I just need. I don't know how the spaces are set up, but I need to bring in a horse float as a portable studio and I will have people come into my horse float and put their dog there. We had the best day ever. My daughter come with me. I took our horse float. I had a backdrop that wrapped all the way around the inside of the float so it just looked like a studio. I had a big wooden box that was really heavy right in the middle, so it didn't move. I had a step at the back and I literally photographed on the tailgate, so. And I had a table next to me with some signage and I had an A board that said, you know, photo of your dog, 35 bucks picture emailed to you tomorrow. And I was flat out for the whole day. [01:57:23] Speaker A: Wow. [01:57:24] Speaker B: It's so interesting you say that because. Ah, that's genius. I was wondering if. Because. So the. The idea of dog photography got planted in my head by Alex Cerns Kearns. [01:57:42] Speaker C: Yep. She's gorgeous. Have you met her? [01:57:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:57:46] Speaker A: Yes. [01:57:47] Speaker B: She bought a belt office. Yeah. Greg sold her a belt and then she proceeded to try and sell everyone in the building And I think she succeeded. So she planted the idea because there's no one in Bendigo really doing it. And. And I have this idea that it needs to be in a studio, but obviously I don't have the space to do it at home. And studio space, like anywhere around town to get a minimal sort of space, It's. It's like 20,000 a year plus. There's nothing really under that. It's. Yeah, that's the minimum for anything. And I was like. [01:58:22] Speaker A: But. [01:58:23] Speaker B: But I have. I don't really want to do the outdoor pet photography thing. I think the studio style of it appeals to me and I did wonder whether a portable studio could possibly work, but I haven't seen it done before. Could it work since you've tried it? Do you think it could work because you've got a space at home so you could do. You can do this in a proper studio. But you reckon it could work in a big trailer, horse float style thing? [01:58:48] Speaker C: Absolutely. The only. The only limitations, the only things that I found that were tricky on the day was the movement of the light. So we started in the morning and the sun was behind us, so the shadows were good. Right. So the dogs are always in indirect light. They were looking out into the light, but it was always indirect. But depending on how your trailer was faced, what would be ideal is if you could have a trailer that was, you know, some sort of box trailer that was a little bit bigger than a float, just so that you can work inside it. And if you had like a split tailgate. So half and half. Half that went up to give you a storm cover. So my horse float's got a storm cover on the back, right? [01:59:35] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. Yeah. [01:59:36] Speaker C: The storm cover goes up to give you a little veranda. So if it's drizzly rain inside's not getting wet. And then I've got the ramp that the horses walk up, which then becomes somewhere for people to walk up safely. And I had the box fairly close to the back of the float for light. And I. And it was a really nice day and I was shooting either on the tailgate or just on the grass off the tailgate. But if it was raining and horrible, I think you'd want a slightly better setup than that. So I reckon a bigger box type trailer, and they're not that expensive, I don't think a box trailer, but something that was a little bit longer that if you could fit a car in it, I reckon you could do it so that you're fully in the trailer. [02:00:16] Speaker B: You're in. Yeah, yeah. [02:00:18] Speaker C: Now, whether you would use lights, I would probably want to use lights, which means you'd either have to hook up to power or have a generator of some sort or something. [02:00:26] Speaker B: But yeah, that's. [02:00:27] Speaker C: That is like, to me, there's nothing that's not doable. Like when I first. Check this out, when I first started, right, doing women and horses back in, well, 2014, 2015, I drive an old Land Cruiser. So I had a mate who was a carpenter build a. A box, right, that slid perfectly into the back of my Land Cruiser up to the seats, right? I painted this blocks box matte black all over. I laid velvet on the base and I had. And it was vinyl, so it was velvet vinyl, so it's quite tough. And. And it had these massive, big four massive doors that come out that were the whole front of the box, right? So when I opened up the boot of my car, I pulled one door out and I pulled the other door out and then the other, the third door dropped down to give me a desk. And I had it fully set up with full size frames and canvases on display in there with battery powered lighting and my laptop so that people. I would do the shoot. I would download the photos to my laptop then and there. I'd say to them, if you want to go and pop your horse away, grab a coffee, I'll meet you back here in 30 minutes. They'd be like, awesome. No worries. I'd be editing away in the back of my car in this black velvet booth with battery operated lights and sample images hanging like a gallery. And then I had this black cloth that come down behind me so that I could see my screen. And I would quickly do a basic edit, get them ready. And I must have been using Lightroom back then because I wouldn't have done that in Photoshop anyway. And then the client would come in under my little cloth, into my little booth and I'd sell them the photos. That is like, seriously. [02:02:21] Speaker B: That is brilliant. Hang on. So were you standing, you were standing there? Not sitting, you're just standing there at the back in like this mobile. [02:02:29] Speaker C: I love that a fold is literally at desktop height. When the tailgate comes down, it's a desk. You can sit on it like it's a bench seat and it's got the lid that goes up. I had this cloth, it was like this gorgeous little. I've still got the box. I don't use it anymore, but I've still got it. [02:02:45] Speaker B: You should sell it. Someone will buy that on this podcast if You've got a Land Cruiser. If you've got a Land Cruiser and you want to start your photography business, this is all you need. [02:02:55] Speaker C: Back of your car, straight out the. [02:02:56] Speaker B: Back of the car. [02:02:57] Speaker C: Mobile gallery, ready to go, hooks and all. [02:03:01] Speaker B: That is. That is genius. I love that you have to think. [02:03:05] Speaker C: Outside the box, so to speak. [02:03:11] Speaker B: Oh, that's so funny. A couple of comments. Matt Palmer up on light. Hey, how you doing? Lucky straps. Going to get into the horse gadget market? [02:03:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:03:21] Speaker B: Well, gosh, if we wanted to. If we wanted to make money, that's where we'd head. So Lucinda says, like the school photo ones that had the doors either side, I vaguely remember that. Where they would slide the door, the guy would operate both doors some somehow. And you'd go through the van or whatever it. Was it a van or a trailer? I can't remember. I do have a faint memory of that. And you walk, you go in and you'd smile and then you'd see the photo and you were like. Like, how did they get that? [02:03:51] Speaker A: How did that. [02:03:51] Speaker B: Is that the photo? And my hair was always sticking up some for some reason. Anyway. [02:03:57] Speaker C: I try not to have limitations about anything like that. Don't, don't like on. And I mentor it with photographers. Like, don't have blocks around how you can sell your work. I've sold work at coffee tables in cafes and I've gone to the local art gallery and. And sat around and grabbed coffee and sold images to clients. Like, it's all doable. There's. You don't have to have a studio. It's lovely to have a studio. And my studio. I do cinematic reveals now with a projector and a big screen and, you know, chocolates on the table. That's all lovely, but I didn't. [02:04:29] Speaker A: Yeah, yep. [02:04:31] Speaker B: That's a fair call. It is two hours in, so if you have to go, tell us. I have a couple of other things I was going to ask about. [02:04:38] Speaker C: No, no, ask away. Ask the other stuff. It's good. [02:04:40] Speaker B: Well, I'm really. I'm really. This is selfish, but I'm really interested in. In the pet photography side of things because it's a new venture for you and it's something I'm interested in because I'm a dog. I'm a dog lover. And you mentioned the Golden Oldies Project book. How did that come about and how did it unfold and was it a success? [02:05:02] Speaker C: I'm still in the middle of it. Yes, it was a success. And it came about as I wanted a winter project and I loved working with dogs and I wanted an opportunity to encourage dogs to come into my studio and have a portrait session because I wanted to grow my pocket portfolio. And I'm a big believer in the best way to learn how to do it is to do it. So I just do it. That's what I've done my whole career is I've just, you know, if I want to learn how to do something, then I'll buy the stuff and I'll do it. And I wanted to use my studio lights a lot more. I only bought my studio lights like two and a half years ago, three years ago, and so I really wanted to use them a lot more. And yeah, that's how the project was born. I love the idea of working with old dogs and I think there's a legacy with old dogs and old horses. We've got an old geriatric horse and they're special, they're wise, they're, they're a part of your family and they're so incredibly important and we lose them and then they're gone. So I thought maybe I can create something that, you know, is all about that and helps me achieve the goals that I want to achieve, but also create something a little bit long lasting for them. And I did it as a charity as well as well. So I rang my vet and I'm like, hey, can you recommend anyone as a local dog rescue? I've had a couple of bad experiences with rescues, privately, not dog rescues, but I have had an experience where I swear I'd never work with a rescue again because it just went against everything I believed in. But anyway, Linda, the vet, vet assistant, she's like, oh yeah, ring Sandy from Perfect Pals. And I'm like, oh, okay. So I googled her and I looked it all up and she's this gorgeous woman who has this beautiful dog rescue. And they, she has people all over the place, foster carers that bring in these dogs. And it just seemed so lovely and legit and it was all awesome. So I rang her and I said, look, I'm thinking about doing this. I'd love to donate every session fee of 50 bucks to you guys. I'm not going to take the money. So what I'd like to do is I to market it, I created a Facebook lead campaign that had a form that people had to fill out and they filled out that form and from there I private message them and said, hey, thanks for filling out the form. Tell me a bit more about your dog. They then did that and if they were accepted because I could only do so many. I had a lot of applications. Applications. But I couldn't do 50 dogs. You know, I aimed for 15 and I got 17 families. There's about 20 dogs. So, you know, and then I sent them. So I sent them a text message, and in that text message, I just said to them, you know, this is for a charity. Your 50 session fee, which was all disclosed earlier, like, there's no secrets. It's all right there in black and white for them. Here's the link to Sandy's page. You can just pay that directly. So. And then just. I just said, just send me a screenshot of your receipt and I'll put that down as confirmed and we'll book a date. And that's how we did it. [02:08:11] Speaker B: So nice. [02:08:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:08:12] Speaker C: And we did some outdoors and some in the studio. [02:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I saw a bit of a mixture there. Did you just. Okay. [02:08:20] Speaker C: Yeah, it was entirely optional. [02:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Did. Now was the plan then, if they wanted to. So what did they get out of the session for their $50? Did they get anything? Or if they wanted some files or some prints or whatever, that was an optional extra. [02:08:38] Speaker C: It's optional. [02:08:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And how did that go? Did it. Is it the first time you've worked that way where the session fee was sort of donated to a charity, but you could purchase additional things or you're experienced with that setup. [02:08:52] Speaker C: I have done it before, twice, actually. I've done two other book projects, Horses, though. So I did a sweet teen project with teenage kids and their horses and a sweet pony project and the sweet teen project I gave to Headspace, actually. So, yeah, I have done it before. And yes, sometimes you'll get no sales. I have had a couple of no sales, but I've also had some very big sales. So from a. A professional point of view, it's been definitely worthwhile. I'm okay with some of the no sales. I went into it not thinking that it would make tons of money or anything like that. Yeah. I really just wanted it to be a bit of a passion project. [02:09:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:09:36] Speaker C: And it has been. It's been great. And so I'm in the middle of doing the book now. I'm hoping to have it finished in time to have it all printed and ready to go for Christmas. [02:09:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And then. So what will happen with the book? Will it be for sale? And we put it around town in certain, like, coffee shops and things like that. What. What are you planned. [02:09:55] Speaker C: Yeah, so the plan is I'll take pre orders initially. And print. Do a print run to cater to that. It won't be a huge print run. I don't. It kind of. It's not going to be in bookstores all over the state or anything like that. I think it's mainly just going to be local people. Certainly all the people that have their dog in it will be able to buy it at cost price so reduced. And it will be for sale. And I'm hoping I can get some in the local library maybe just for longevity's sake. Yeah, yeah. And then maybe some local pet shops and vets, you know, our local vet might pop some on their counter, that kind of thing. [02:10:28] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. [02:10:29] Speaker B: It's awesome. I love that idea. [02:10:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:10:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially it being particular. The golden oldies idea. I really like. [02:10:36] Speaker A: Like that. That's beautiful. And you're right, you know, we. Justin and I have both in the last couple of years lost older dogs. I. My labradoodle Yuki was with us for 18 years. [02:10:47] Speaker C: Oh, wow, that's amazing. [02:10:48] Speaker A: And it's such a big chunk of our lives that they're there for, you know, and I love that concept of, you know, celebrating and honoring older dogs in their senior years because they have given so much in most cases to. Especially to families and, you know. [02:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:11:05] Speaker C: And you realize, like, we've lost two of the dogs already and the book hasn't launched yet, so. Oh, really? It's really. It can be heartbreaking as much as it is great. [02:11:16] Speaker A: Yeah. But you have documents it, especially for the families, you know. Yeah. Let's just remember who, who. Who this dog was and what they meant. I think that's really wonderful. I have a question about some of your photography. I'd like to bring up a photo if I could. Yeah, sorry, Joe, I'm just hijacking your dog photography questions. [02:11:34] Speaker B: No, no, that was. I'll remove me off. [02:11:36] Speaker A: Oh, what happened then? Sorry, I'm having some trouble. Just bear with me. This one. [02:11:42] Speaker C: Do you want me to tap dance? [02:11:43] Speaker A: No, you'll be right. The pigeon or is it a dove? [02:11:49] Speaker B: I don't. [02:11:49] Speaker A: I don't know the difference. Tell us the story around this photo. I think it's a beautiful, adorable photo. I'm just curious to know what. What led to this happening. [02:12:01] Speaker C: So I just got my new studio lights and I needed to trial them and get them working. And I wanted to get more into pet photography. And so I brought in every animal we owned and photographed it, and this is one of them. [02:12:14] Speaker A: Oh, this is one of your animals? [02:12:16] Speaker C: Yeah. So hubby's a pigeon breeder oh, wow. We have fantail pigeons and. [02:12:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a stunning photo. I love it. [02:12:27] Speaker C: Thanks. [02:12:28] Speaker A: It's really cool and it just feels a bit quirky too, you know, like, it's the pose. [02:12:34] Speaker C: Yeah. Our cat, our rabbit, our chook and our pigeon. [02:12:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [02:12:42] Speaker B: The. The pet photos on this page are great. [02:12:45] Speaker C: Yeah. That's our rabbit that you can see there. [02:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah. We had rabbits for a while. I've had a few rabbits, yeah. [02:12:55] Speaker C: Oh, the dogs are so much fun. Like, the dogs. Yeah. [02:13:00] Speaker A: I would almost move to Bendigo if you open a dog photography business just to help out. [02:13:05] Speaker B: I'm really. I'm really thinking about it. I just. I don't know, but I. I reckon. [02:13:10] Speaker A: I could get Sash across the line if you open a pet photography and. [02:13:13] Speaker B: We can come around, play with all the pets like that. I wanna. That's. I'd like. You know, imagine if that was your client every day. Was that. [02:13:20] Speaker A: I know. [02:13:21] Speaker B: Like, look at that face. [02:13:23] Speaker C: Exactly. It is literally the best day ever. Like, you cannot do anything other than smile and revel in these dogs because they are just awesome. And if you want to talk further. [02:13:34] Speaker B: Justin, anytime, I'd love to. [02:13:38] Speaker A: I'm. [02:13:39] Speaker B: I'm right on the edge and I'm. I'm worried as well. If I have. If I have like a five minute conversation with Alex, you'll end up. I'll end up with a giant studio space leased, because she's just like, she's got this motivating thing of being like, absolutely, you could do it for sure. You want, you know, like. And I'm like, oh, okay, I'm gonna do it. [02:13:58] Speaker C: I'm gonna invest a hundred thousand dollars. [02:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah, let's do it. I'm gonna buy a pro photo gear and have the best. [02:14:04] Speaker C: Hello. [02:14:05] Speaker B: I like. I like the idea of a. A mobile. Ah, cutie. Look at it. I love the idea of a mobile trailer because I love the idea of being able to go to regional towns and be like, I'm going to be here. [02:14:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:14:21] Speaker B: These three days we're gonna stay in the, like. Oh, hang on. What have we done? [02:14:25] Speaker A: Oh, I stuffed it up, boss. Can you fix it? [02:14:27] Speaker B: Sorry, I got it. I got it. Yeah. Like, you could. You could sign right there, the whole thing up and you could go and sort of base yourself in a town for two or three days. Yeah, absolutely. And, and. And serve that town who may not have a dedicated pet photographer there or whatever. And then. Yeah, I just, I think that's. I'm gonna look into this. [02:14:44] Speaker C: A big box trailer would Be your friend. Something that you need to be able to have weatherproof. Light proof. [02:14:51] Speaker B: Yeah, light proof. So you can actually control. Control the lighting and. [02:14:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [02:14:56] Speaker C: And I mean if the weather's in your favor, you can certainly just bring everything to the back of the box and have the doors open and shoot outside while they're inside. Like it's. It's like I loved doing it in our float and it wasn't as much work. Like it literally took us 10 minutes to strip the dividers out of our float. We've got a fairly big float. It's quite a wide float. And we just stripped everything out. I hung up the backdrop around. I got a 6 meter backdrop I could have done with two 6 meter backdrops to go from. [02:15:23] Speaker B: From edge to edge but cover the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. [02:15:26] Speaker C: So I covered all around the front and mostly down the two sides to where the box was. But you could still see a bit of the inside of the float. You know, I like to polish things a little bit. So I would, you know, do it again. I would have a. An extra bit of backdrop to the edges of the float. [02:15:41] Speaker A: Yep. [02:15:42] Speaker C: Nobody cared though. [02:15:44] Speaker B: No, exactly. I guess the issue would be summer. It would get hot. Yeah, I'll figure that. [02:15:51] Speaker C: So there's things you can do about that though. You can have roof vents. [02:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:15:55] Speaker C: So you would have like whirly gigs. [02:15:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:15:59] Speaker C: On the roof. And you could have a fan running. Like if you. I'm imagining in your scenario that you'd want to be able to control the light and hook up to power. [02:16:08] Speaker B: I think so. Otherwise you might as well just photograph outside. If, if. Yeah, I think, I think you'd want to control the light. [02:16:14] Speaker A: You could put a switch system in it anyway. I mean people convert like, you know, you know this. People convert box trailers and trucks to. To be mini homes, travel homes. They put airons in. [02:16:24] Speaker C: If you're looking at investment wise, like for you to invest in a studio space, you're looking at a fairly substantial investment. [02:16:32] Speaker B: That's right. [02:16:32] Speaker C: So you know, a box trailer is easily salable. [02:16:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:16:36] Speaker C: If no down the track, you just strip it out, sell it as a box trailer again. Whatever. [02:16:40] Speaker B: Gosh, you guys are. Cut me. Watch out. [02:16:46] Speaker A: I think Louise. [02:16:48] Speaker C: Sorry. Look how popular the mobile dog washes are. [02:16:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:16:52] Speaker B: Well that, that's the theme. [02:16:54] Speaker A: It's. [02:16:54] Speaker B: It's. Yeah, it's kind of that style of thing. [02:16:56] Speaker A: Yeah, we've had that before. They come, they park out the front. They just want your hose and that's it. [02:17:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:17:01] Speaker A: But I think what we'll do maybe next week we'll get yourself back Louise and Alex, and we'll just put Justin in the middle. Just in the middle. And we'll. We'll see what comes out of it. Yeah. [02:17:14] Speaker C: 100. I'm sure Alex would be absolutely up for that too. [02:17:18] Speaker A: And it would be. [02:17:19] Speaker B: It would be crazy. [02:17:20] Speaker A: Yeah, it would. [02:17:21] Speaker B: Anyway, I'm very. Yeah, I see those photos. [02:17:24] Speaker A: So. [02:17:24] Speaker B: So it's, it's going well. That side of the business is, is starting to grow. Obviously. You're so well known for horses, for equine photography. Is this something you're having to put a bit of time, time into sort of getting your name out there for pets and dogs? Or is it. Is there. Are you finding that, like, hey, if people have horses, they probably got dogs. [02:17:45] Speaker C: Too and yeah, somewhat like that. Marketing is not a strength of mine. In actual fact, it's probably my kryptonite. I'm not good at it and I wear a lot of hats, which means that I, I sometimes feel like I'm a jack of all trades and a master of none. And when I'm concentrating really hard on one thing, everything else goes by the wayside. And I struggle with that. Like, I really probably need a PA or a crew or something to, to help me with that as I grow my business. Because, like, with the stuff that I'm planning for next year and the workshop stuff that I'm growing, I really. And I want to go into an online educational space as well. So that is going to take a big chunk of me. The horses are my passion and I love it, but I'd actually love to shoot less and workshop more. [02:18:39] Speaker B: Wow. [02:18:40] Speaker A: Let's talk about. I was going to creative. [02:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, let's, let's, let's dig into that and also the trips that you're planning for next year. Before that, though, I do want to say you're speaking my language when it comes to wearing many hats and feeling like you can't do any of them well. And when you do do one well, everything else falls apart. And I've done that many times. That's basically how I run my business. [02:19:04] Speaker C: It's how I'm running mine too. Justin. I can say if you come up with a theory around that, let me know. [02:19:10] Speaker B: I've got nothing other than. Other than I've just come to know, lean into it and it's okay. Sometimes it's okay to let the fires burn when you've got to try and get something new on the way. And then you can pick up the pieces of those things later on. And maybe it's to the detriment of some things, but it's the only way that, like, things like this podcast, if I didn't let some. Something else maybe drop off for a little while, this wouldn't get off the ground. And it's just that I've just come to the terms with, like, that's just how it is for the way that I do things. [02:19:38] Speaker A: So, yeah, that's fine. That's absolutely fine. You know, it's just how your brain works, and you just got to lean into it and go with it. [02:19:45] Speaker B: You know, you find a Greg and a Yelena to pick up the pieces and help with the podcast, and then it's, you know, and then it's on to the next thing that I can break. [02:19:52] Speaker C: Yeah, but it is about having that village around you, though, isn't it? [02:19:56] Speaker B: It is, yeah. [02:19:57] Speaker C: It takes a village, and I'm a huge believer in that. I can't. None of the stuff I do, nothing that I create is me. It's. It's a collaboration with either a horse or a dog or people and their animals like it. It's. It's a mutual exchange type thing. It's not. Not just me. It's a big picture, but it also. [02:20:16] Speaker A: Involves your family because you're stepping out of your role as a part of that family, whether you're a mother or a partner with, you know, with Jay and Yelena, your partners just. Or, you know, your family is just as important in that mix, I think, because they give you that space. They. They allow you that space to go, oh, I'm going to pursue this. Or, you know, we're gonna. We're gonna jump in the van and go here, you know, and do this shoot or whatever it may be. I think it's. [02:20:38] Speaker C: I'm very lucky. My family's very supportive. My kids have grown up with it all their life. I literally kicked off my workshop career when my daughter was, like, three months old. [02:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:20:51] Speaker B: Wow. [02:20:52] Speaker C: 2009. So, yeah. [02:20:55] Speaker A: Yeah. To say that you're driven is an understatement. Louise. [02:20:58] Speaker B: Yes. [02:20:58] Speaker A: Let's talk about the photo creative. How long is that been another arm of your business, your empire, shall we say? [02:21:05] Speaker C: Yeah, it's definitely not an empire, Greg and I. And, like, it's very flattering to hear all this, but it's actually. Sometimes it's a shit show, you know, I like to keep it real. I'm just human, and I fall in a heap sometimes, and I'm passionate about what I do. So I'm very driven and I keep going, but it's messy sometimes. But the workshop stuff, I'm really, I love it. I love teaching, I love seeing our moments with people. I love seeing the joy that photography brings to other people. I love being a part of that. I love, you know, taking people to places that they would never get to photograph, you know, horses on the beach, for another example. [02:21:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:21:43] Speaker C: You know, most people would never get an opportunity to potentially do that. And I can do that for them. And to create, to have access to costumes and people and, and, you know, that other people don't have access to, I think is really, it's rewarding for me and I love it. But it started I actually got approached in 2000, early 2009, actually. Must. Yeah, it must have been 2009, 2010 when I started, because my daughter was born in October 09. I was approached by the local community TAFE to see if I would consider running a TAFE course, like a community course. And I'm like, okay, well, tell me what's involved. And they're like, well, we'd like to do just a beginner's photography course. It'll be for three weeks. It'll be two hours, one night a week on a Wednesday night, and we'd love you to do that. I'm like, okay, sounds doable. In the meantime, I had to create all the content for these courses. And so I did them for several terms and they were quite successful. And then they wanted an advanced one, so I created an advanced advanced one, which was a four or six week course, I can't remember now. And then all the government TAFE funding cuts came in and everything got slashed. And then there was no room or no budget to be able to do this extra, you know, for the arts anyway. Yeah, yeah, for the arts. And so they went by the wayside. But I. There'd been a whole heap of people that had been trying to book through the TAFE that actually reached out to me and one of them reached out and said, well, well, can't we come and learn from you? And I'm like, oh. And I had this little light bulb moment. I don't have many light bulb moments, but I had this light bulb moment and I was like, well, yeah, maybe you could come and learn from me. And that's how it started. So originally I didn't have a studio back then, so it was all outdoorsy stuff. I did workshops at Taronga Falls. I did workshops in St Kilda, on St Kilda Pier at Sunset and then we'd go to Luna, a park. I just. Anything I could think of that was a cool photography related thing to do, I did and I learned as I went. [02:23:52] Speaker A: Yep. I know you say you don't have light bulb moments, but I'm getting the impression that the lights are always on. Louise, thanks, but not really. Well, the facade that the lights are on is. Is important. [02:24:06] Speaker C: Actually, the light is today. Can I just say. Amazing. [02:24:12] Speaker B: So I'm on your website at the moment. There's a ton of different courses and. Or master classes and Introduction to Photography that you've ran or you do run. How often are you running workshops at the moment? [02:24:28] Speaker C: At least a few times a month throughout the year and depends what it is. I've got specific master classes that I only do at certain times of the year. So for example, the lavender one can only be ran when the lavender is out. So that's January. And then the autumn in the vineyard, you know, happens in April. The beach master class, it's nicer when it's warm, so I tend to do that over the summer months. And then I've got a winter portrait retreat that I do, which is like a three, four day, really awesome gathering up in Narbothong where we stay at this incredible lodge and just have a great time doing crazy things. And then I have a spring portrait retreat that I do in Torquay or just near Torquay. And so they're kind of seasonal based on, you know, different things, different times of year. And then all the introductory stuff happens throughout the year here, there and everywhere. Some of them are here in my studio, others are local and. Yeah, yeah. And then next year I'm doing, which I've mentioned previously, the international travel. So I've got two 14 and 16 day master classes in Morocco next year coming up and I'm about to launch 2027. So. [02:25:45] Speaker B: Yeah, so. [02:25:46] Speaker A: And so why Morocco? Sorry. [02:25:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Yeah, exactly that. Why there? Have you done international tours before or is this the first time you. [02:25:54] Speaker C: Yeah, first time. First time traveler. I jump in the deep end with most things. Right. [02:26:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:26:05] Speaker B: And so. And so this is you jumping in the deep end. Just like I'm gonna rally a group of people and we're going to Morocco. [02:26:12] Speaker C: Yep, yep. [02:26:13] Speaker B: Now, did I read correctly? Have you sold out two different tours to Morocco, Is that right? Or close to? [02:26:20] Speaker C: Yep. Next year's booked out, which is amazing. [02:26:22] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [02:26:24] Speaker C: Yeah. Jesse's coming with me, who was chatting before. Cannot wait. It's just gonna Be incredible. [02:26:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:26:33] Speaker C: But how it came to be the international stuff, and I feel I'm gonna get a bit vulnerable here, actually. I don't have a passport yet. I haven't before. [02:26:46] Speaker A: You really. [02:26:46] Speaker B: You really haven't had a passport before? Wow. Have you been. [02:26:52] Speaker C: You. [02:26:52] Speaker B: Have you been outside the country, like, illegally or something or. No. [02:26:57] Speaker A: Not everyone travels, Justin. [02:26:59] Speaker B: You are gonna have the best time ever. [02:27:03] Speaker A: When you mentioned the deep end, I think the deepest end. [02:27:07] Speaker B: That is deep. [02:27:08] Speaker C: All right, so full disclosure. I was born in the uk and I came out here as an. An early kid and. Oh, thanks, Dennis. [02:27:18] Speaker B: Dennis says it's a testament to you, Louise, that you are booking out tours with that experience. [02:27:24] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. [02:27:25] Speaker B: Right, exactly. Because, yeah, they know that you will. You will sort it out. [02:27:29] Speaker C: Yeah. Look, most of the people that have booked do know me, and they've done workshops with me before, which is amazing, and I have a lot of support, so I will tell that story as well. But I came out from the UK as a young kid and I just never had an inkling. My mum traveled around the world before I was born, so when I was born, single mum, raised as an only child, it was tricky. Didn't have an opportunity to travel when I was younger and never actually had the inclination. And then as I got older, career came in and there was no time for travel, and then kids, and when I had my kids, I actually started to go, you know what? There's a bigger world out there than just here. And as I got more into the photography, I'm a big location junkie. So I seek. I have images in my head that I physically cannot create here in Australia because we don't have the architecture or the spaces to do it. It just doesn't exist here in Australia. So, you know, it's either look further afield or not do it. So then leads on to. I met this incredible woman about 5 years ago by the name of Sharon, and she's a tour operator in multiple countries in the world. And she's a horsewoman and a photographer. She came and did one of my workshops and we connected and, you know, having a chat. Oh, I'm a tour operator. I'm like, oh, how exciting. Where do you go? Well, I go to Spain, Portugal, India, Morocco. I'm like, oh, it's on my bucket list. And she's like, oh, what's on your bucket list? I'm like, oh, one day I'll. I'll do workshops overseas. That's. That's a big goal. Like, that's a big Life, dream plan. She's like, oh, well, let me know when you're ready. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not ready yet. I still got little kids and I couldn't afford it and it's all too hard and I don't have a passport and I haven't traveled, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, five years later, she came and did another workshop with me back in September last year at Torquay. And we talked and she's like, so, how are you traveling? And I'm like, well, I'm good, you know, I feel like I'm kicking goals. I'm where I kind of want to be in my business. I've got some health stuff I need to get sorted, but my kids are both in high school next year and, yeah, it's good. She's like, great, come and talk to me when you're ready. I'm like, oh, well, it's on my list of stuff to do. And then she reached out. She was heading to Morocco in April, and I actually spoke with her because we speak every. We used to speak every few months just on the phone and. And she lives about an hour and a bit away from me and. And so we were talking and she's like, I'm off to Morocco in a couple of weeks. I'm like, oh, how exciting. And she's like, you too could be here. And I'm like, oh, you know. Sounds amazing. Sounds like a dream, doesn't it? And then the night before she come home, she sent me a text and it just said, it's time. [02:30:19] Speaker A: Oh, I just got goosebumps. [02:30:21] Speaker B: Yeah. What a legend. [02:30:23] Speaker A: That's beautiful. [02:30:24] Speaker C: Yes. [02:30:25] Speaker B: So good. [02:30:26] Speaker C: She's just incredible and she's amazing, and she's over there right now. So she just said to me, how about we meet when? Because I just said yes. Like, she said, it's time, and I just said yes. And I thought. [02:30:43] Speaker B: Now I have to do it. [02:30:45] Speaker C: So, in full disclosure, I have flown. I have flown, but not internationally. So my brother's a pilot, so all my brother is a pilot. So I'm a bit lucky. I'm surrounded by planes all the time. I've got one pilot, that one brother that flies them, one brother that builds them. So our world. Yeah. So anyway, I went and met with Sharon a week after she got home to let her get over the jet lag. And she already had a route in mind because she's traveled over there for the last couple of times a year, for the last 10 years or whatever, or 15 years. [02:31:18] Speaker B: Right. [02:31:18] Speaker C: So she Got out this big map of Morocco. And she said, right, I reckon we start here and we go to here and we do this and we do this and we do this and then we come back to here and then we go there and I can organize horses for you all over, like, all along the way. We can do landscapes, we can do street photography, and it's just grown from there. So as soon as I said yes, within a week and a bit, she had the itinerary planned. Within two weeks, she had the quotes back from over there from all of her people. Within three weeks, I had the web page built. Within four weeks, the first one was sold out. [02:31:52] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [02:31:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:31:55] Speaker B: Wow. That's how to do it. That's amazing. [02:31:59] Speaker C: So, yeah, I have no experience with international travel, but I have a lot of experience with workshops and managing people, and I have a very big support network to help support me in making this the best experience for the people that are coming. So, yeah, I'm very excited about it. It's. It's absolutely my truth right now. Every time I think about it, it gives me goosebumps. I'm channeling it. I'm dreaming about it. I look at imagery over it. I'm. You know. The first thing Sharon did was send me a pack which has this beautiful headscarf for us to wear while we're over there, and a book booklet on all the how to's and what to do. And we've talked numerous times. I've met some of the guides on, you know, WhatsApp already and bits and pieces, and. And it's just amazing. [02:32:44] Speaker A: That's incredible. [02:32:45] Speaker B: It sounds. [02:32:46] Speaker A: I've got. I've got a friend of mine, he's an Australian. He and his wife are both Australian diplomats, and they lived in. They're currently in Ghana, but they lived in Morocco for a number of years. Lived, worked. And some of the imagery he sent back was just absolutely stunning. Like it's just another world. It's so beautiful. [02:33:05] Speaker C: Yeah, I've heard about it all my life because my mum traveled there when she was younger. So as a backpacker, she did it the hard way. I'm doing it the cozy way. [02:33:16] Speaker A: Four and a half star minimum. Four and a half star minimum, yeah. [02:33:19] Speaker C: Absolutely. Yeah. She did it back in the early. Really early 70s, and it was. Yeah, with a backpack and a bit rugged, but loved it. Loved every minute of it. And it's an incredible place. And I already know that I'm going to love it and I'll be okay. And Sharon. Sharon is just this incredible woman who is switched on and knows a lot of people over there and I trust her explicitly. And she organizes tours for travelers, not tourists. So a lot of it's off the beaten track. We do some stuff, you know, in the Medinas and in town, but a lot of it's out of town and in rural areas up in the mountains. And we've got our own private. We got three full drives, three English speaking drivers. We've got the whole shooting match for the whole 16 days that we're there. [02:34:08] Speaker B: Sounds the best. [02:34:10] Speaker C: Yeah, we fly into Casablanca, then we head down to Marrakech. [02:34:13] Speaker A: Fly into Casablanca. [02:34:15] Speaker C: Yeah, I know. How exotic does that sound? [02:34:17] Speaker B: Yeah, Marrakesh is one of those. You hear that name and you're just like, oh, that's cool. Like I've never been to that part of the world. [02:34:26] Speaker A: You start thinking black and white films and. [02:34:28] Speaker C: I know, right? [02:34:29] Speaker A: Yeah, that whole world. [02:34:30] Speaker C: Yeah, 100. Yeah, me too. It's so exotic and romantic. I love it. So, yeah, flying to Casablanca, head down to Marrakesh. I fly in two days before everyone else, just so I have got some time to get, get the, out of my system a little bit. [02:34:45] Speaker B: Because you'd be super familiar with jet lag and that kind of thing. There's so many brilliant things that. And, and so Dennis is so exciting. Dennis would be all over this stuff. He's done a lot more traveling than I have. I mean, wait till you experience the joy of trying to figure out how to fit your camera gear in, including laptop, into 7 kilos of carry on luggage. And you, you put one camera in there, you're already overweight and you're like, what? How much? This is ridiculous. [02:35:18] Speaker C: I have been told by a lot of people though that no one ever weighs the bag. I'm like, are you sure. [02:35:25] Speaker B: Don'T fly Jetstar? So pack a jacket. Pack a jacket with a lot of pockets and worst case, you put everything in the pockets and you carry the jacket like it's light, but it's actually got 15 kilos of cameras swinging around. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of ways around it. But yeah, just you'll, you'll have so. [02:35:43] Speaker C: Much fun doing my kit substantially. I'm only going to take what I need. But that's still potentially. Oh, no, it might not be. It was originally it was going to be two bodies, but I might only take one body now anyway. [02:35:58] Speaker B: I mean, look this, all the tips are coming in thick and fast. So Matt says you got to get that 10 kilo international limit that is If. Yeah. You still got to check stuff, though. But yeah, 10 kilos is way better than. Because that extra 3 kilos, your bag's already in there. Everything is. Because it's your bag. And your laptop takes up a ton of the. The actual weight allowance. The extra 3 kilos of camera gear is actually. It's enough to get your. Your critical import. So you'll probably want your 7200 and your Z8 and maybe one other lens on you. [02:36:27] Speaker C: That's what I'm planning on taking. [02:36:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And then, like Lucinda says, pelican case for the win. I've often put my second backup body and any lenses that I'm like, ah. You know, if it explodes, it explodes in a hard case in my checked bag. And it's like, they've always been fine, but I'm. I'm aware that like, well, something could happen to these. But I'm okay if it does. [02:36:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:36:49] Speaker B: And I've. I've rolled with it. [02:36:51] Speaker C: But yeah, yeah, I'm getting lots of advice. I've got lots of. I bet people, you know, Dennis and I are going to get together and have a big, long chat at some point. I feel very supported in this. So, yes, it's a huge. Matt says I put any check lenses inside my clean hiking boots. That's a good idea. [02:37:10] Speaker B: I've put them in snowball boots before. Yeah. Look at this. I've got big feet. Yeah. [02:37:15] Speaker C: Excellent. I love it. [02:37:18] Speaker B: 100 to 400 in there. [02:37:19] Speaker C: I'm just talking to lots of people, but we do. We do. Yeah. It is pretty awesome. I think we've. Yeah. Casablanca, Marrakesh. Couple of days for me just to get overwhelmed. Done with. Then we spend two days with this incredible Moroccan street photographer. So he's actually running a workshop that I will be a part of his workshop to teach us how to do street photography in Morocco. So we spent two days with him. So one day in his studio, one day out on the street with him and learning all the protocols. Because in Morocco you have to be very careful and a lot of people don't like having their photo taken. So you just have to understand. So I figured the best thing to do is actually do a workshop with someone who lives and works there and he does workshops there professionally and. And Sharon and has met with him just in the last day or so to talk about what we're going to do. So it's so. [02:38:10] Speaker B: And you get to actually sort of. You'll obviously still be, you know, with everybody and doing your thing, but you'll get to, like, pull back out of that role and. And actually be part of the workshop and. And learn and enjoy and. Oh, that's so cool. [02:38:25] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Because I feel like it's something we all need to do and. And I'm all about disclosure. Like, all these ladies that are coming and the gentleman that's coming as well, like, they all know that it's my first time, but they feel. They know that I'm very well supported. And Sharon, she's just. She's incredible. She's going to pick me up from home, drive me to the airport, take me on the plane, drive, you know, come around, stay with me in the Riads. You know, we're not sharing a room, but close, you know, the whole 16 days. She's. She's there to be my backup woman because she understands the people and understands mostly about the language and understands how things need to run and how to communicate with people when something goes wrong. So in her mind, she's taking the bookings, she's organizing all the money stuff from everybody. I don't do any of that. And she's going to chaperone me the whole time I'm there. So if there's any issues with logistics, people, horses, locations, she deals with all of that. That's her role. And I am the queen that walks around sharing everything I possibly can with the people that are there with me. [02:39:35] Speaker B: I'm hearing you saying this stuff, and I'm like, man, this is. This is like, the best gig ever. I'm sure it will be a lot of work, but it sounds like you're like. Like, you say, you're like, she's taking care of everything. I just get to do the, you know, do the fun part of the workshop, man. [02:39:50] Speaker C: Good job. [02:39:51] Speaker B: Well, no, you're not. You're not lucky. You're. You. You put this stuff out in the world and it comes back providence to you. Exactly. Yep. [02:40:00] Speaker C: I'll let you know after the first one. Literally, I don't see you guys before Beef Up. Next year, my second trip, I literally fly back in, like, four days before Beef Up. So I will. [02:40:10] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [02:40:12] Speaker C: At BEFOP next year. [02:40:14] Speaker B: But how? The stories and the photos. Yeah, we'll be following along. [02:40:20] Speaker A: We will. [02:40:21] Speaker B: Oh, that sounds like a dream. That's so awesome. What an exciting thing to look forward to for late in 2026. That's. Yeah. [02:40:28] Speaker C: And then 2027, we're doing Morocco, New Zealand, and India, but I haven't. I haven't got itineraries for any of that. Yet. [02:40:35] Speaker B: Wow. So you're. This is. This is the. Really leaning into it to lean into some travel workshops as well as your sort of, I guess what you'd call educational local workshops. [02:40:47] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And move into some online stuff as well. Yeah. [02:40:50] Speaker B: So good. So good. The exciting future. [02:40:56] Speaker A: It's really impressive, Louise. It really is. [02:40:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:40:58] Speaker A: It's. For someone that hasn't traveled overseas before, just that energy that you're, you know, that you're showing us here today, it's just. It's incredible. And I remember that energy, you know, like, the first time I went to Japan was a solo photography trip for a week in Tokyo. And just that build up and the research and the understanding how. What the culture is and, you know, and again, it comes back to that. Yeah, I took some great shots, but the experience, you know, the shots. [02:41:25] Speaker C: It's really hard. [02:41:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:41:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [02:41:30] Speaker C: Look, I'm. I'm just keeping an open mind. I know that I will. My ladies and gentlemen that are coming are going to be very well looked after and supported, and everything is already booked and paid for and in place to make it an incredible trip. So I'll just. Yeah. Go with the flow. There's lots of downtime in between, so there's. There's six planned sessions, like master classes within the 16 days. And the rest of the time, there's free time for people. There's time for us to decide. Because I didn't want it to be rigid. I wanted it to be fluid. I wanted to be able to say, hey, do you want to go out at sunset? Like, the sunset looks amazing. Why don't we go out with cameras and we'll drive out of town a bit and, you know, do the desert in the sunset or. And not have restrictions or expectations about that. [02:42:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. [02:42:22] Speaker B: I think that's smart because you can. You can go by the vibe of the group a little bit. If everyone's tired or whatever, you're not dragging them all onto. Into the cars and like going somewhere. And so sunset's not even going to be good anyway. But you're like, well, it's on the itinerary, so we have to do this. [02:42:35] Speaker C: Yeah, the itinerary is there, but it's definitely. I mean, the. The planned stuff, the horses and the people that we've planned is rigid. That's booked in and paid for. But the rest of the time is fluid. [02:42:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:42:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:42:48] Speaker A: Wow. [02:42:48] Speaker B: Jesse's got it. The trip is going to be awesome. [02:42:51] Speaker C: Yes, it is. [02:42:53] Speaker B: They're in amazing hands. Absolutely. They are. Speaking of amazing hands, we should probably. That was, I don't know, I'm not speaking of amazing hands, but we should probably let you go and do some work because we've been talking for 2 hours 43 minutes. [02:43:07] Speaker A: No, don't be sorry, please don't ever be sorry for telling stories here on the, on the camera life. That's what we're here for. [02:43:12] Speaker B: Great. We've, we've come up with a plan for a mobile pet photography business. We've got a master class in Santa photos. We've learned all about everything to do with equine photography. And now we've been inspired that it is possible to create a dream travel workshop without a passport. [02:43:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:43:32] Speaker B: And sell. And you sold out too. That's amazing. [02:43:36] Speaker C: In full disclosure again, I have just applied for my passport. It's coming at the post office yesterday, so. [02:43:48] Speaker A: Wow, that's awesome. Another milestone. [02:43:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:43:51] Speaker A: Very, very cool. No, but it is the first time you get it. It's like. Well now the possibilities are just. [02:43:57] Speaker B: Can go in there. [02:43:59] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I'm very excited and I'm, I'm scared too. Like, you know, I realize that I'm undertaken. I'm not, I haven't gone into this lightly and I'm doing lots and lots of reading and research and talking to people whose opinion I value about their experiences traveling and, and my mum traveled extensively around the world and my brother in law has been around the world several times. So I've had, you know, lots of information about how to pack for the plane and you know, how to manage the plane trip and we're flying Emirates so apparently they're pretty nice. [02:44:32] Speaker A: Yeah, they must be pretty good. [02:44:33] Speaker B: Oh yeah, yeah. [02:44:35] Speaker C: So first class. No, wouldn't I love that cattle. [02:44:42] Speaker A: Imagine you put all the participants back in, in cattle and you just sit up in first in first class. Yeah. [02:44:48] Speaker B: See you guys later. [02:44:50] Speaker C: I'm not that person. If they're in cattle, I'm in cattle. You know, I'm gonna be neck deep in it too with them. [02:44:58] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks. So cool. No, thank you. Thanks for all the, all the info. That was a great chat. As well as Robert Varner says great show and good luck to her on her photo adventures. [02:45:09] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks, Robert. [02:45:10] Speaker A: And look, we'd love to, to get you back in maybe after one of your, your Morocco trips and you can unpack that with us and we can talk. Yeah, so would we. Yeah. [02:45:22] Speaker B: See the video like the. Sorry the photos and any behind the scenes stuff that you happen to get of all the. Yeah. That part of the world Is fascinating. [02:45:30] Speaker C: We've organized that. We've actually organized for drone footage on the beach at a. So we were at sunset of us. So we're paying someone to take drone footage of us doing the workshop with stallions on the beach at sunset, which. [02:45:45] Speaker B: I think will be so good. [02:45:47] Speaker C: Pretty awesome. [02:45:49] Speaker A: That's. [02:45:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that's like a dream. A dream situation. Horses running along a beach in Morocco and just I can imagine it. Sunset drone footage. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's perfect. [02:46:01] Speaker C: We're not doing any of it by half. [02:46:03] Speaker B: I love it. [02:46:04] Speaker A: Why would you. [02:46:05] Speaker B: Lucinda. Lucinda says absolutely. Stellar chat. And yay for more Girl Power. Agree. Yes. We need more Girl power on the show. [02:46:12] Speaker C: Sorry, I think I said Linda before, but I meant Lucinda. Thank you. Oh, yes, I agree. Girl Power's good. [02:46:18] Speaker B: Girl Power. Ian Thompson. Great show. Love to do an equine workshop with Louise. If I can get to Vic at the right time. You should. [02:46:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:46:27] Speaker B: Awesome. Dennis Smith says, incredible. Louise, you're amazing, inspiring. Philip Johnson, great show. Yeah, so are you, Dennis. [02:46:37] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, so are you, Dennis. [02:46:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:46:43] Speaker A: That'S right. That's what it's about. But look, on that note, I think we'll draw this episode of the Camera Life to a close. And just before we do, just a reminder that the Camera Life podcast is brought to you by Lucky Straps. We make handcrafted premium leather camera straps, and based on the response at BEFOP a couple of weeks ago, apparently they're pretty good. [02:47:07] Speaker B: We knew something, but we. Yeah, we got very surprised. [02:47:11] Speaker A: We did. But look, having said all of that, Louise, thank you so much for your time today. You're an incredible storyteller, both with your images and your thoughts and words, and it's been an absolute delight. I'm getting goosebumps again. Absolute delight to chat with you and uncover your story and learn how you do what you do. And obviously you do it very well. So thank you for your time. [02:47:35] Speaker C: Thanks so much, guys. Been awesome. Thank you. [02:47:38] Speaker B: Oh, I missed this comment from before. One final one. Jenny Cooper, I have an idea. What about a long exposure workshop? [02:47:48] Speaker C: Oh, Jenny, sorry. I'm coming to you to make that happen. [02:47:53] Speaker B: I promise. [02:47:54] Speaker C: Jen has booked in on my long exposure workshop like three times and I've had to cancel every time. I'm just gonna come and do it with you, Jen. I promise. [02:48:04] Speaker A: Nice one on one. [02:48:06] Speaker B: Good wedding. With that, we're gonna roll the music and we'll see you guys on the next episode. [02:48:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Thanks, everybody. [02:48:13] Speaker B: Be safe, everybody. Thanks, Jesse, good to see you in the chat and Jenny and Dennis and Lucinda and Matt. Good to see you, Matt. Hope everything's going well at the gallery. And everybody else. I don't know who I've missed, but we'll catch you all in the next one. [02:48:28] Speaker A: Don't forget to like and subscribe. [02:48:29] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, do that, too. [02:48:33] Speaker A: Bye, everyone.