EP114 Aidan Williams | Adventure Photographer

[00:00:23] Speaker A: Well, good morning, everybody. Welcome back to the Camera Live podcast. It is the 4th of September, 2025 and we're beaming. You live from. Well, from Australia, mostly. Yeah, we're all in Australia, that's fair to say. This is episode 113. We're on the march to 200 already, Justin. [00:00:43] Speaker B: That's right. [00:00:44] Speaker A: We'll get there soon, given how many. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Technically, 114. Greek. Technically 114, but last night's episode didn't count. I didn't renumber them. [00:00:51] Speaker A: You didn't know. I appreciate your slackness in that, but yeah, in case you missed it, we had a BFOP booking party last night. Or as I like to call it, the BFOP Emotional Support Podcast. Because apparently there were tantrums, there were tears, but there was a lot of, a lot of glee and a lot of success. So we might, we might, we might touch on that a little later. But more importantly, joining us today is award winning adventure videographer and photographer Aidan Williams. Aidan, welcome to the show. [00:01:22] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me, guys. I've. Yeah, I've been looking forward to this for a long time. Actually. I feel like we've been planning to for a couple of months now. And now, now's the time I get my time to finally talk to you here. [00:01:33] Speaker A: It's like time in the sun. [00:01:35] Speaker B: It is, it is. [00:01:38] Speaker A: But yeah, we're not like Oprah. We don't give out lots of gifts. [00:01:40] Speaker B: So. [00:01:43] Speaker A: We'Ll send you a sticker. But yeah, so welcome. Want to jump into the chat and say good morning to a bunch of people? But just before we do, Aiden, can you just give us a 60 second version of who you are and what you shoot? [00:01:56] Speaker C: Yeah, my name's Aidan Williams. I'm Blue Mountains born and bred, but I shoot adventure sports photography. Currently shooting with Nikon and absolutely loving that at the moment. But pretty much I travel all around the world photographing a sport mainly called slacklining or highlining, which is the elevated version, if you aren't familiar with it. It's kind of like pipe rope walking. But we do it at, yeah, serious heights. So I've. [00:02:23] Speaker B: Crazy, crazy. [00:02:26] Speaker C: 49 countries so far. About seven years. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Wow. It's insane. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that is insane. 49 countries. Your passport must be just worn down to a little stub with a statement. [00:02:41] Speaker C: Yeah, I've had to renew it, sadly. I wanted to keep it all on one, but now I've had to get onto the next because I'm missing out on those stamps. But it's a perfect excuse to kind of See beautiful places but also be around just amazing people as well. And obviously very talented athletes. Yeah. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Wow. [00:02:58] Speaker A: All right, well, look, we are going to unravel a little bit more about your journey and how you got to where you are now and also what you're working on these days. But before we start that part of the conversation, Justin, you want to say good morning to some folks. [00:03:10] Speaker B: I do. Especially Philip Johnson. He was here first. Always is. Philip, good morning. Only feels like yesterday we were here. That's right, because you were here on last night's show. You were. [00:03:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:20] Speaker A: Justin and I have decided we're just going to leave it live always. And we're just going to walk past and go, oh, you're still here. You know, with a coffee and a. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Toothbrush and you know, 24 hour stream. It's going to be great. Rodney Nicholson, good to see you. Amazing photographer. Who else we got? Oh, Jim's here. He says surely they won't be late. We were. And Yelena says the day they won't be late, Justin will give out a 50 off lucky straps code. So yeah, wait for that. Nick Fletcher's here. Good morning, Ian Thompson. Good morning. LTK Photo. How's it going? How are you going? It's good to see everyone. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Welcome guys. And look, if you are watching or listening along and you're new to the channel, please make sure you give us a like on this episode. It just helps to promote it to other folks that are like minded like us. And please make sure you subscribe. Hit the subscribe button. Make sure you also hit the bell icon so you get notifications. We run two podcasts a week. We have the Monday evening show which is a random photography show, 7.30pm every Monday, Australian Eastern Standard Time. And then we have our interview show with amazing guests such as Aiden every Thursday morning, 9am Australian Eastern Standard Time. And finally, sorry, it wouldn't be, wouldn't be right if I didn't complete the ad read by saying today's episode of the Camera Life podcast and every episode of the Camera Life podcast is proudly brought to you by Luckystraps.com head to Luckystraps.com if you're looking for a premium Aussie made handmade leather camera strap and we can customize it and tailor it to suit your needs. So head there. And thanks to all the great folk at Lucky Strap for sponsoring this show. Justin. [00:04:54] Speaker B: Thank you, thank you, thank me. Thank us. It's funny, I think it's actually that's how I first come across your work. Aidan. I don't know how you had flown under the radar from my. I don't go on Instagram a lot and you've got like, you've got 70,000 followers. Crazy Instagram page. [00:05:12] Speaker A: Beautiful attention whore. You're an attention. [00:05:16] Speaker B: And I think that's how I come across you because you because was through Lucky Straps, I'm pretty sure. So that was pretty cool. I was like, we got to get this guy on the podcast. As soon as I saw your feed, I was like, get him on the podcast. We got to do it. So I think that was back in June or something, maybe I can't remember. [00:05:31] Speaker C: Yeah, no, thank you so much for getting me on. It was actually, yeah, like, obviously been familiar with Lucky for a long, long time. But yeah, I just wanted to actually have something that was personalized to me. And yeah, I was actually placing an order and then they're like, do you want to come on the podcast? I was, of course, you know, like, it's a bit of an honor to be here, you know, with you guys. So. [00:05:52] Speaker A: Yeah, we're nobodies. Well, he is, exactly. [00:05:55] Speaker C: You know. [00:05:58] Speaker A: All right, but thank you, that's wonderful. Let's. Let's dive in to find a little bit more about you before we get. Get into the photography side of life for you. Can you roll us back a little bit in time and talk to us about some of your early influences that you think maybe contributed to a career in photography? You know, were you an adventurous kid? Were you a creative kid? Were your parents business minded folk? You know, what, what was sort of those early days like for you? [00:06:25] Speaker C: Yeah, so obviously you can exclude the childhood trauma. [00:06:28] Speaker A: You don't need to go into childhood trauma. We're not interested in that here. [00:06:32] Speaker C: That'll be for another podcast. No, no. Being based in the Blue Mountains, obviously kind of lends itself to having an adventurous kind of spirit and soul, but also, you know, kind of there's a really nice creative community up here as well. So going to school up here, like, really, really kind of nurtured that. But, you know, with my parents, they were always really, really supportive of kind of my creative students. And they anything I kind of lent any sort of direction I went in, they supported that. And that kind of started when, you know, I think I was about five years of age. And, you know, as you are, you're going, going away on family trips and you just have like your little Kodak film camera, you know, disposable camera, and, you know, they must have seen something a couple of years later, you know, it must have been my joy. I can't remember back to it, but they bought me this little tiny point shoot when I was about seven. Absolutely loved it. Always took photos everywhere, both in the environment that I was in, family trips, but also my older brother playing sport. And you just, you know, you kind of got a free reign. And that's the ultimate creativity. And it wasn't really until I was, I'd say about 16 years of age and I was starting to get into thinking about HSC and all that, you know, and you've got a careers advisor in your ear saying, what do you want to do with your Life? And at 16 years of age, not many actually know, but. Or have it locked in. But yeah, it kind of coincided that at my school in the Blue Mountains, we had dogfee teacher, just came in as my art. As my visual arts teacher. And, you know, I was like, wow, I can actually combine sport photography and actually make a career out of this. And, yeah, I think I probably drove her crazy just by nagging her every opportunity about what I could do better. And just this pursuit and it kind of did. Did really, really well with my hsc, like, in terms of my art projects and, you know, obviously did that in photography as well as my major. But, yeah, it wasn't until kind of I where like, yeah, I started studying after school. I started doing and doing photo imaging where I had teachers and lecturers like Adam Knott, who had worked for some of the biggest magazines in the world, photographed amazing people like Nelson Mandela, and they're giving you all the insight into what actually to be a photographer. And I think that's something now that really is instilled in me about, you know, valuing, you know. Yes, valuing that journey and how to get better and this pursuit because it isn't always glamorous, as we all know, but also, you know, what it takes to be both a good person, but just also a really good photographer. But I was really, really fortunate kind of in my young career and also today to have influences like Adam Pretty, who's an Australian photographer but currently works is amazing photographing Olympic Games. I've had people like New Life of the Sports Illustrated, obviously, adventure photographers, which most people idolize, like Jimmy Chin, who shot free solo and. Yeah, yeah, these really amazing people that. [00:09:57] Speaker A: He's on our list, by the way. Sorry to interrupt, but he's on our guest challenges. [00:10:02] Speaker B: I made a list of guests and they. They're, like, rated from, like, hard to impossible. And Jimmy Chin's on the impossible list. [00:10:11] Speaker A: I got Jeff Cable. You did get Jeff Cable to that win. As long as I can. [00:10:16] Speaker B: Yep, yep. [00:10:17] Speaker C: We're working our way. [00:10:18] Speaker B: We want it. Oh, we want it. Because I think I saw somewhere you had drawn some inspiration stuff, obviously being Australian adventure sports from Crystal Wright. She's definitely on our list as well of sort of dream guests to try and wrangle onto the podcast. But. Yeah, yeah, okay. [00:10:34] Speaker C: Amazing photographer. [00:10:36] Speaker B: Oh, I know. Crazy. Crazy. [00:10:38] Speaker C: And just such a kind person as well. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:10:40] Speaker B: So, okay, so you've spent some time with Crystal on projects or. [00:10:45] Speaker C: Yeah, so unfortunately I haven't spent any times on projects with her. That would be amazing. Of course. Yeah. But when I was actually doing my hsc, you draw. I feel like you have to draw as many inspirations as possible, like references and, you know, she was one of the main ones that being in Australian, but also like an adventure photographer, you kind of added to the list, you know, and it was actually. I don't know, this is going to be a question further in, but she was actually the person that intentionally, of course, that actually made me aware of blacklining or highlining. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Wow. [00:11:24] Speaker C: So I guess I have her to thank. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah, this will probably. We'll be jumping around. We can always dive back into. You talk a little bit more about your TAFE studies and stuff like that because I'm interested to find. Find out what that was like, because I didn't learn. I never learned anything about photography. I just did it. And that's why I suck. So you. What I had written down here, which I found really interesting, was what I've found, especially when people excel in photography or videography in sort of these niche sports, generally, the story is, well, I was at a rock climber and I was, you know, hanging out with rock climbers and I started bringing my camera and then next thing I knew, I was the. The photographer and that launched into a career and that seems to generally be the. The evolution. Whereas you were a photographer and you had, from what I understand, you had never participated in this sport of highlining or even climbing. Where do you rock climb much at all? Or like, were you into this stuff prior to deciding that you wanted to take it on as part of your photographic career. [00:12:30] Speaker C: So, yeah, I. I came from like a very different direction where, you know, it wasn't like, as you said, like that I was climbing growing up or doing these amazing, amazing things like canyoning. And, you know, I just kind of had a friend, like either the climbing gym or the crag or, you know, those sorts of things. Or even, you know, through slack lining, you know, soar in the park or again, a friend. I, yeah, I had that foundation where I'd come from photography and I kind of lucked out that, you know, I actually heard about. Yeah. Growing up in the Blue Mountains, I was probably the only person here that didn't actually climb or do that sort of things. I was, you know, very conventional where I was playing, you know, representative, you know, soccer, cricket, you know, winter, summer and then just rinse, repeat. So I didn't do that. I did hiking and you know, Bushwicking, all those sorts of things. But I didn't have that kind of in. I actually was at a bit of a, bit of a dead end which I don't know. There's probably some really hardcore photographers out there that have been in press and you know, an agency work for, you know, 40 years and going what are you talking about? You know, being, you know, 20, 21 and being burnt out. Like that doesn't exist, you know, like. And I was, I was working at the Daily Telegraph at the time. I was doing a bit of agency work on the side with giving images through their sports side and I, I'd grown up as that was the dream. You know, all, all your photographers, they're the sports photographers at you know, these amazing magazines and newspapers and they're photographing Olympic games and that's, that's the goal. And with press you kind of have to start at the bottom. You don't, you don't just get into sports. So I kind of cut my teeth and you're into the job. I was pushing and pushing and doing like all these really long days and coming in my days off to just try and pick up extra jobs and you know, kind of put myself in front of editors, you know, anyways to kind of get. And I, I just was burnt out. I was, I kind of sat back and was like, what am I doing at the moment with my career? Like I'm a year in. Can I see myself doing another 39 years in this per se? Where's that creativity going to? Actually I didn't have any creativity at that point. Like I kind of through that burnt out process, I felt like I was photographing jobs and I was in this kind of monotonous loop and I funnily enough, the most adventurous place I could kind of think of outside the Blue Mountains was Tasmania. So I thought, oh, I'll go down there on a one way trip and. Or like, yeah, I'll go down there on a trip and I'll just road trip around for two weeks and just hopefully something spurs out of that, like. Yeah, I don't know, even if it's a sunrise or an amazing hike or, you know, I'll. I'll get something out of it and it all come back to me. I'll have some answers. You're looking for the Holy Grail. [00:15:17] Speaker B: It was a. It was a vision quest. It was like, I love it. [00:15:23] Speaker A: Okay. [00:15:24] Speaker C: Yeah. And I didn't even have to go to Bali or anything for it, but I was down there and it was one of. It must have been like one of the last couple of days down there. And I heard that Crystal Wright was photographing this thing called. And you know, as you do, when you've got these inspirations that you just clutch at anything, you can. You. You grasp, you go, that must be the answer. You know, that's something that, you know, if they're doing it, that must be something. And I didn't, unfortunately, I didn't get to see her in action or the athletes or anything like that. That. Funnily enough, I have met the athletes and they're really good friends that were on that project. But it's kind of a bit of a funny, like, loop moment. But I came back to New South Wales and back to Sydney in the Blue Mountains, and I was like, slacklining, slack lining. I was obsessed with this. I was like, I have to find out what it is and who's doing it. And I kind of. I scoured the Internet back then, and there wasn't. There wasn't much on it, like, in terms of highlining and slacklining. It was kind of. It still is like, it's niche now, but it was even more niche back then, let alone with social media. It was. Yeah, it wasn't quite as big, you know, in terms of Instagram and everything, but I eventually found this guy up in the Blue Mountains doing it. And I was actually slacklining. Not. [00:16:44] Speaker A: Not the photographer, but an actual athlete. [00:16:47] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's going to be a theme throughout this podcast that me just being a pest and very persistent, it's probably, like one of my best but worst traits. And I just pestered him for weeks on end, and eventually he allowed me to come out. He's like, okay. And it was after sunset. It was pretty bad conditions. It was pretty dark. But as soon as I saw this sport, I was obsessed. I fell in love with it. It was the most beautiful thing, seeing someone walk a line that it's only one inch wide, but it almost side. It just looks like they're flying through the air and they're 100 meters in the air. And I kind of got this little taste in my mouth. I was like, this is, this is it. Like wow, this is the answer that I was actually looking for and I've gotten it. I have to go all in on it. Thankfully enough, the athletes that I was with invited me to stay the weekend. They're like, come back. And I was like, okay. And fast forward probably two months. I ended up leaving my job at the Telegraph and booking a one way ticket to France because I heard that's where they're doing more of slacklining and high learning. I didn't know who was there or anything like that, but I just wanted to go all in with it because, you know, yes, it's a risk but also I didn't have anything to lose by it either. Like my career was, I thought was going well, but also like I had a long way to go and you know, even if I was back in a week or two then at least I knew I kind of to that. But thankfully I'm still going. [00:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah, hang on, just. Let's just get this clear. So you flew to. Where did you land? Like Paris or you, you flew to. [00:18:28] Speaker C: I landed. Yeah. So I landed in Paris and then took a train down to Chamonix, which is. Yeah. [00:18:35] Speaker B: South France, and then just walked around asking people if they did slacklining or highlining. [00:18:41] Speaker A: Like how did you. [00:18:41] Speaker C: Not on the street. [00:18:44] Speaker B: But I mean so had no. You had no plan? You had no athletes lined up or anything like that? Did you have anyone to kind of start that point with? [00:18:52] Speaker C: I had nothing to the point where even the night that I arrived in Paris, I didn't even have accommodation booked until I landed my flight. Yes, yeah, yeah. Once I, once I landed and once I like got got familiar and actually put up over the jet lag, I started trying to reach out to little communities. Just you have Facebook groups and everything like French Highlanders and these sorts of things. Just putting the word out and seeing who was actually doing this. And thankfully, thankfully there was a couple of French Highlanders down there that were based down there. But also there was one of the guys that was, was, was from Sydney, I believe, and he was going to be over there soon enough anyway. So kind of without knowing it when I got there, it worked out perfectly. [00:19:44] Speaker B: And in so and to. And to be clear, so at this point you were new to the sport. Had you started trying to educate yourself? Because this is a complex sport as well, in terms of. You're talking about, it's essentially similar to climbing in the levels of safety and rigging and things that need to be done, particularly if you're, if you're. If it's a difficult to access spot. I assume sometimes they do even have to not climb to the spot, but there's. They might have to rappel or you might have to rappel. There's a lot going on. Had you tried to upskill yourself in that before going to France? Had you started immersing yourself in that world? [00:20:28] Speaker C: So I thought I had. And it's one of those things about, like, kind of limit of how much you know, and that's kind of the. Even, Even now, like, I just. I'll be like, oh, that's what I need to know. And then all of a sudden I'll get to that point, I'll be like, no, I need to. I need to know more. Or, you know, you find new ways. And at the time, I, like, I was very basic in terms of, like, I didn't have the climbing experience, I didn't have these sorts of things. But in terms of knowing what the athletes are actually doing and have to go through and the rigging and sort of thing like that, I had to upskill very quickly. And that was a massive learning curve. And it even evolved into the stage where, where I. I was in the sport. And because I was in the sport, everyone's like, well, you have to be able to walk the lines now, too, not just be able to take the rider's passage. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Really. You got pushed into it. Peer pressure. That's awesome. [00:21:20] Speaker C: Massive. So I hadn't even been on a slack line, like what you'd see in the park. [00:21:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Justin has done some slack lines, but his first black lighting experience was at a children's playground. [00:21:30] Speaker B: I think I was telling you, I was like. I was like, I've done this. I've done this quite a bit, you know. Yeah, it's. It's. So, yeah, for anyone, I'm just going to bring up a picture of like one of your pictures quickly and then just to explain to people that maybe haven't. Can't visualize what we're talking about. Like, so this is what, the sort of thing that you shoot, this is one of your images, which is. So correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what they refer to as high lining, as opposed to slack lining, which functionally is kind of the same. But it's just the fact that you're. [00:22:00] Speaker C: Way up in the air pretty much like anything from 20, 30 meters above is considered like mid to high lining. But like, you know, if you're slacklining in the park, it's generally about a couple of feet to a meter off. [00:22:14] Speaker B: The ground, as close as possible to the ground. When I do it, I've just laid. [00:22:18] Speaker A: The rope on the ground and tiptoed across the. The rope. So. [00:22:21] Speaker B: And I think that, I mean, that's the same. I think the distances are obviously also quite like in terms of when you hear about slack lining. When I've heard about slack lining, usually it's like a bunch of rock climbers or just outdoorsy type people. And I think the one that I've got, I've got a gibbon slack line. [00:22:38] Speaker C: Nice. Yeah, yeah, very popular. [00:22:41] Speaker B: And I think it's, I don't know, maybe 10 to 15 meters or something like that, maximum length. And we set it up between two trees over some nice soft grass and we try not to fall off it. And so that's kind of like the kids training wheel level of the sport. And this is like the. Yeah, yeah. Way beyond the pro level of it. [00:23:05] Speaker A: Just on the, on the slack lining stuff. And obviously in these shots you're incredibly elevated, so you're up quite high. What sort of gear are you wearing for your protection? [00:23:15] Speaker C: Yes, so it definitely does depend where I am and also the access. Like say for instance, if we are like an elevated environment where you can actually, you can hike, you can climb these sorts of things like that. That's my key is going to be quite simple. Like I'll have my harness, I'll have like an ATC and like all these sort of safety devices just in case, like a griguous or rappel as well. But if say for instance we are on something more complicated, my gear is just going to kind of elevate a lot more than that. You know, my gear can go from a simple kit of about 15 kilos to right through to about 40, 45 kilos as well. [00:23:54] Speaker B: Wow. Just. Just purely in your safety and safety and access gear, I guess as well, in terms of you being able to get to the position you want to shoot from isn't necessarily always the same position as they're setting up their rigging and stuff for the line itself. So you might be like, okay, you guys are setting up. I got to get over there and down there sometimes. [00:24:16] Speaker C: Yeah, sometimes like where they are on the line, I might be two kilometers away. [00:24:21] Speaker B: Whoa. Wow. [00:24:22] Speaker C: Yeah. So I have to, I have to like generally you have the line and you have the access and everything like that, which is great. But then you have a complicated part about going, okay, how am I actually going to do this justice? And that might mean hiking large distances and also like in a short timeframe as well, because, you know, it's not like you can ask an athlete, oh, can you just get back out there and just walk this line again? [00:24:44] Speaker B: Just hold that record. [00:24:45] Speaker C: Hold it, hold it. Just. Just hold. [00:24:48] Speaker A: Actually, that's another. [00:24:49] Speaker B: That's a really interesting thing to bring up because it's like a lot of your. Because of the way these work, it sort of looks like it's. It's all about the photo, where it's like, okay, we're going to make this photo. I've got it all set up. If you can just walk out to this perfect spot and then I'll take the photo. But it's actually not always about the photo. It's actually like you say it's about a world record attempt or something like that, and you've just got to figure out how to capture it and not. And help the process not get in the way of the process. [00:25:17] Speaker C: Yeah, that's the part where, like, I guess, yeah, from the outside, it kind of looks like, oh, you go to this amazing sport and then you say, hey, walk to this part and just stop, hold it, and then get the photo. It's like, definitely not. You know, you do have these projects where, say, for instance, it might be a world record, or, hey, the weather's actually turning. They have one last. One last try and these sorts of things where you're just a little small piece in the cog. You're not. You're not the main event and you never will be. You just need to make sure you're nailing your part. They're nailing their part. And, you know, you're part of this bigger team. [00:25:58] Speaker A: I've got a business question for you which I know will shock everybody. How do you handle insurance with this sort of gig? [00:26:06] Speaker C: It's hard. It's hard and expensive. I. It's. So there's kind of two parts to this, and I'll dissect it, that it's a lot easier for me to get insurance and, like, in terms of, like, me, my gear and everything like that than what the athletes are doing. So it does give me perspective. And that doesn't make it quite hard as well when you are doing, like, commercial projects, because a lot of companies will be like, no, no, no, we want it to be insured. We want everything. And you're like, how much. How much do you have really, in terms of that? Because that's really, really tough. And also it is a really hard one as well for me because if I'm doing maybe a season or whatever like that in Australia, it's a lot easier to get insurance, like back home than if I'm doing it abroad. And then I actually mention where. So it's quite expensive. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I can imagine. [00:27:02] Speaker C: And we will look at when I. [00:27:05] Speaker B: We are going to try and dig into the. The realities of trying to make a living doing this later in the show. I've got a ton of questions written down about that. But before we get there. So you're in France, you don't know anyone and you've sort of got, what, a basic level of knowledge of how this sport works in terms of the equipment and that kind of thing. So when you first link up with some people and what's that first sort of shoot like, or that first whatever. How did that unfold? [00:27:39] Speaker C: It's a hard one. And I, like, there's definitely traits from when I did that shoot and like, when I first started, things like that I still carry today. And I don't think you'll meet someone that's met me and they. They won't say, oh, he's not enthusiastic. Like, my enthusiasm is always there, especially when I'm passionate about something. But I. When I approached that first shoot in Chamonix, there was this balance between. I'm not. Not out of place, but I kind of. I hadn't. I felt like. Like a bit of an imposter in a way, that you had these amazing worldwide athletes, incredible things. And, you know, we were up, you know, 2,000 meters on a project in France, and I'm going, just a couple of months ago, I didn't even know what this was. And these people may be recognized worldwide as these really incredible and prolific athletes. Here am I on this project. Have. I have to deliver. I have to find a way to deliver. I don't like what I know. On this circumstance, I need to exceed that well and truly. You know, like, I look at those images that I produce and I was, you know, I was really proud of them. Now I look at them and I'm like, that was new. But what were you thinking? [00:29:00] Speaker A: Don't worry. [00:29:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:29:03] Speaker C: Um, but it was, yeah, it was. It was quite intimidating because, you know, you have to. You have to do a job. You're a professional there. They're a professional. And you have to find a way to execute the job, you know, no matter how uncomfortable the situation or, you know, like, no. No matter how, you know, how scared of heights you are or whatever, you have to find a way to nail a job in this circumstance, because if you don't, you're just letting down everyone. So, yeah, it was quite intimidating. But also what I learned in that short period of time and from putting myself in that situation was, you know, like, those skills I still carry to today because I'm like, wow. Like, what you were able to, like, overcome was. Was. Yes, quite a lot. [00:29:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's fair to say, Aidan, that. Sorry, Jay. I just want to say, I think it's fair to say that, yes, photography skills are critical and that we constantly learning and developing. But I think what's standing out for me, hearing you talk about your journey, is just that drive you had. You know, you were quite happy to give up comfort and security, travel to the other side of the planet to work on a project, you know, you'd never seen, you'd never shop before. I think that's. That takes amazing bravery to, you know, to forsake comfort and security for literally the opposite. You know, clinging to a. Clinging to a rock, 2,000, you know, feet up, trying to get a great angle of someone walking across a line. Like, it's just phenomenal. [00:30:33] Speaker B: Not only that, too, but, like, so that the trick, the trigger for this was the. The Tasmanian vision quest, which was the furthest place away. You were. You were planning. You know, you were like, all right, I got a trip, but I can't go too far. And then next bit, you know, you find of Paris with no plans. Yeah, that's. [00:30:50] Speaker A: That's pretty amazing. [00:30:51] Speaker B: That's a big leap and it's. It's inspiring. [00:30:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:56] Speaker B: I think in terms of what. What's inspiring to me is that the fact that I think sometimes I let myself get. What's the right word for this? Discouraged. Or talk yourself out of being able to maybe do something because you think, well, everyone else would have done that all their life. Anyone photographing this sport, they would have done this all their life. I couldn't enter as a beginner, essentially, in the sport and be a great photographer. I've even talked myself out of that when it comes to snowboarding. I've done a bit of snowball photography and stuff like that, but I'm like. And a little bit of it is geographic, and I don't want to move to an iconic snow location to be able to make it a real thing. That's probably what I would have to do. But also part of it is I'm like, I'm not a good enough snowboarder. I didn't grow up in the. In those areas, and everyone else is already so far ahead of me as photographers, I would never be able to compete, so I shouldn't try. [00:31:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:52] Speaker B: I just think it's very inspiring that you didn't have any, like. Or maybe you did have some of those feelings, but if you did, you pushed through them to chase what you were. You were after. [00:32:03] Speaker C: Yeah. And it can be really, really difficult. Like, I know exactly what you mean, and it's you. I feel like if you're not having those conversations, you're not human. It's just, it's. It's part of it. It's, you know, once you get into, whether it's photography or anything, any other thing, you're going, oh, you know, like, if I'm. If I want to, you know, cut my teeth and do this at the highest level, I want to make this really, I have to do this. And, you know, and. But I don't have that here. I have to travel. And there's always, like, what ifs and everything like that. But for me, like, even, even to this day, like, yes, there's what ifs, but it's. I think the difference between, like, when I probably first started, probably out in, as photography, I would say, is that you. Yeah, there's going to be what ifs and everything like that, but you overrule it straight away and then you quickly switch in terms of going, well, what am I actually? What are the pros and what are the cons from this? And generally with these sorts of things about making a reality, you have nothing to lose. Like, yes, I'm in very much in a fortunate situation where, where, you know, I. I don't have kids and those sort of things like that. I'd like to think that that wouldn't hold me back. But also, you know, you know, life changes. [00:33:12] Speaker A: It changes your reality. It really does. Yeah. [00:33:14] Speaker C: But, yeah, for me, it's always going well. If I don't take this opportunity, if I don't put myself in a situation, am I actually really giving this my all? Am I actually really following my passion or anything like that? I think, you know, it's. There's, there's always going to be a lot of doubt that's. You can't become so robotic that, you know, they don't exist. But I think for me, like, it just becomes stronger. The fact that it's like yes, you can have doubts, and that's natural. Yes, you can feel nervous. That's natural. But you also use that to harness you as well. And go, okay, yes, I'm feeling nervous. I'm feeling anxious ahead of shooting a world record, or, yeah, of course, shoot for Red Bull that I have one attempt at, if I screwed up, the project didn't exist, kind of thing like that. But also you go, well, how many people would actually kill to be in my situation right now and how hard have I had to work to get to this opportunity? Why would you let that slip? Just because. A bit of doubt? [00:34:13] Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. And look, I've talked very openly about. I have sometimes almost crippling imposter syndrome. It's plagued me most of my life, and it's only in recent years that I've become aware of it. But I think what another standout thing for me, you know, you talk about, you know, I guess your actions speak loudly around, this is something I'm passionate about, this is something I'm going to pursue, and you make it happen. And I think hearing your earlier story about, you know, the fact that your parents encouraged your creative pursuits, that they bought you a camera and kind of gently nudged you in that direction because that's where you were facing. And they were obviously very supportive about that. And I think that plays a huge part, and I'm sorry to therapize your childhood, but I think that plays a huge part in how we face challenges as adults. You know, were we given the confidence to make our own decisions? Were we given the freedom to fail and fall and then get back up? But were we allowed to choose our own direction? I think that that plays a huge part, you know, for people that, like, you have developed success from a very early age. And I think it's really inspirational that at 7 you were going, oh, wow, there's something in this, you know, that's crazy. That's pretty phenomenal and unique. I was going to say, purely, it's very unique and, you know, hats off to your folks, really, for allowing that. Allowing that sort of maturing of creative ideas, you know. [00:35:44] Speaker C: No, I'm very lucky to kind of have that support because I've, you know, like, I've seen the opposite where, you know, say, for instance, someone's not good at something or has a passion at the start and it's kind of discouraged. But, you know, I was very, very lucky in my sense that one, my parents noticed something at such a young age, but also encouraged that too, and kind of Just nurtured it. You know, it could have been easy to just be like, well, you know, it's just. Just another person taking a photo or, you know, he's not going to make a career out or he's not going to actually love this. That sort of thing. Or it's just. [00:36:14] Speaker A: Wouldn't you prefer to be an accountant? [00:36:17] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Where's the money? Like that sort of thing. [00:36:20] Speaker B: Maybe think about getting a trade. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Poor age. [00:36:24] Speaker C: What's. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Your back's a little lost lately. [00:36:26] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. You need something to fall back on. Yeah, yeah. [00:36:29] Speaker C: What's your plan B? [00:36:33] Speaker B: You know, it's. Yeah. That's so funny when you said about. Anyway, this is completely off topic when you said it earlier about when you're 16 and the person at school is like, what? You know, so what are you going to do? What do you want to be when you grow up? I wanted to be a. I wanted to be a fighter pilot and one of the people. Yeah, because everyone's seen Top Gun. [00:36:55] Speaker C: I can see that. [00:36:56] Speaker B: You know, why wouldn't you? [00:36:57] Speaker A: And then just like Top Gun, you. [00:36:59] Speaker C: Know, just like there's some aviators now. [00:37:01] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I could be just in a helmet. Buy you somebody next birthday. And you know what the person at my school. School said. And mind you, I, I can't remember when the timeline was, but for reference, like I did, you know, I did year 12 physics in year 11. I wasn't great at it though. I was bad at homework, but I did, you know, like, and I did the advanced maths and stuff like that. So I was kind of into the science and I sucked at English, but I was into the sciency mathsy stuff a bit. And, and the person, when I told them I wanted to be a fighter pilot, they were like, you know, you have to actually be really smart and, and really like physically fit to be a fighter pilot. So it's probably not something you should pin your hopes on because it's very difficult. That was their advice. And I was like, yeah, maybe, maybe that's the reality that I needed. But I was like, oh God. And then. Okay. And then I want to hear about yours too, Greg. And then the other one was, we're playing in a band. Um, we were. Terrible band, but we were having a great time. We actually opened for Parkway Drive. Dunno if you ever heard of that's all that Matters. [00:38:09] Speaker A: No one's heard of them, Justin. [00:38:10] Speaker B: It does. It doesn't count because we organized the gig that they played at, so we obviously were going to make ourselves the opener because we brought them to Bendigo when they were sort of smaller. [00:38:20] Speaker A: That's actually quite clever. [00:38:22] Speaker B: It was clever. So claim to fame. But again, one of our teachers, I think this was in year 11 or 12, he gave us like a lecture about how a far better band than us got signed to Sony but still never made it. So it's probably not a good idea to pin your hopes on becoming a band because it's so difficult, you know, like I had it multiple times. It was. [00:38:49] Speaker A: Anyway, so I had a similar experience. My. My mum wanted me to be an accountant because my brother was an accountant and he, you know, my. I. Anyway, that's. I need therapy for that too. But yeah, career guidance when I did mine was half hsc, half ece. I was in the crossover, the cusp of that. And it was so long ago that my career guidance teacher, who was just my maths teacher, who I didn't really appreciate, he brought up, he had this, this old, like this one, like an early computer where the screen was like this big and the, the text was just green on black. Like we're thinking that generation early, early Mac, you know, really early Mac. And. And I remember it because I was talking to him about, you know, I wanted to be an artist. I wanted to be an illustrator. I was good at drawing an illustrator and painter. And. And he was like, oh, no, no, you're not gonna, you're not gonna make anything in that sort of industry. You know, you could be looking more at sort of, you know, more economic based stuff. And it's like, you know, it's like, have you spoken to my mother? Has she been in your ear? [00:39:53] Speaker B: Maybe she had. [00:39:54] Speaker A: I still don't know. I may never know. [00:39:56] Speaker C: But. [00:39:57] Speaker A: But was really like, it stuck with me that that was kind of a point where people didn't necessarily believe that it was worth me pursuing an artistic career. And I've always struggled with it. But yeah, it's just interesting the influence one person can have. [00:40:15] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:40:16] Speaker A: What could be your direction? [00:40:18] Speaker C: It's. [00:40:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm sure lots of people have, you know, stories like that, creative people especially. [00:40:25] Speaker C: But yeah, I think it's just, yeah. Such an important thing. Like, yes, I'm very fortunate in the sense, like for me that I had my parents. But you know, like when you're at school and you're away from your parents and all these external kind of things, you need someone to actually know, kind of nurture that as well because you're. At the end of the day, you're probably just trying to find your way. You're a bit lost and everything. You just need something to, you know, either take your hand or pat on the back. And, you know, yes, I was very fortunate in that sense with, you know, during school, but also afterwards when I was studying that these people that, in all honesty, like, at the time you're going, it's just their job, they're a teacher. But then, yeah, when you look back, you're like, wow, you actually went out of your way. Like, I was speaking to actually one of my lecturers from TAFE the other day when I was overseas and it was, yeah, we're just having this amazing conversation about, like, reflecting. When I was actually studying and, you know, I was still trying to. I was. I think I had blinkers. I just. I was like, sports, photography, sports. And he, you know, he widened my vision, everything like that. But he also was a person that, when. When no one else kind of believed in me, just pushed me in a direction that I didn't think was valuable. Um, and. But actually, now I'm going, oh, that's actually where I wanted to go. And that actually is something that I really cherished to today. And, yeah, he was like, oh, you're actually, you know, why I'm so proud about doing my job. And I was like, oh, this is like this thing that you ask for, but when someone does, you're like. And, you know, even for you guys and me today, that you see someone up and coming and all these sorts of things, you know, like, wow, like, it makes such a big difference, you know, about a compliment that, you know, it might be their photo essay or, you know, these sorts of things that they can change your day and career as well. So it doesn't take much. [00:42:14] Speaker A: It really doesn't take much effort. It's interesting. Yeah. [00:42:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:42:22] Speaker A: I definitely need more therapy. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Let's just. I'm just going to bring up Dennis's comment here just because it could be interesting. So Dennis Smith has been on the show a bit. He's a light painter. I don't know if you've ever seen any of his kind of work. He does crazy light painting work and he's suggesting to attach some lights to one of the athletes. He's seen it done small scale, but big is good. That would be interesting. Have you ever considered something like that? [00:42:51] Speaker C: I have, I have. Logistics are a hard one. And actually, yeah, actually getting it. Getting it done is really, really tough. I've done it, I've seen it done in terms of like, a Lot. A lot smaller scale in terms of, like, shows and everything like that. People have attached LEDs and. [00:43:13] Speaker A: Okay, yeah. [00:43:14] Speaker C: Kind of. [00:43:14] Speaker A: So more performative kind of stuff. [00:43:16] Speaker C: Yeah, they've done that. But, like, in terms of actually light painting, I've done a little bit with it, but it's really, really tough because generally you're well away from cliffs. They're like. Even to stay on the line, they're moving, and it can be a bit of. A. Bit of a nightmare. And you also don't want to be. [00:43:37] Speaker A: Responsible for distracting them. [00:43:39] Speaker C: No, no. [00:43:40] Speaker A: You could just make a halo with that light above your head. [00:43:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I've seen it done with drones as well, which is really cool. [00:43:48] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [00:43:51] Speaker C: What is it? There's a really amazing Nat Geo photographer who I think recently did. Or maybe a year ago, not recently for Apple, like a campaign, just with their iPhones. And I think it's Ruben Wu. Reuben Wu. And he just goes, yeah, these halos have been out in the middle of, like, Arizona deserts and rock monuments and stuff. Incredible. But have a lot of admiration for. For anyone who's doing light painting of any sort. Because I'd love to do it, but it's. Yeah. Very, very. Yeah. [00:44:24] Speaker A: Oh, maybe we should match you up with Dennis because he. He hates collaborating with people. [00:44:29] Speaker B: I was gonna say. Yeah. If there was anyone that you want to talk to about. Because Dennis made his own lights. Like, he makes tools. I don't know if he. Let me bring up one of his things just. [00:44:37] Speaker C: So does he walk high lines as well? [00:44:38] Speaker B: He does not. [00:44:40] Speaker A: He would give it a shot. Yeah, I'm sure he would. [00:44:43] Speaker B: But, like, I'm trying to. I don't know whether Dennis would probably yell at me because this isn't the best thing to. To show, but, like. So he. He made his own. No, he made his own tools to be able to create nice sort of, like, graphic. This is his auto stuff. [00:45:02] Speaker C: Sick. Is it like, light sticks? [00:45:06] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Light sticks that show it in a certain way. [00:45:09] Speaker A: Kind of a wands that spin as well as he does them. If you go to his website. Not now. Afterwards, he documents everything and how he does it. So if you're curious about how Dennis achieves a look, there'll be five videos about it on his website. He's not a gatekeeper. He shares everything he learns. [00:45:29] Speaker B: And I'm sure he would be able to help if you were like, all right, I want to try and attach a light to, like, a wristband or something so that it does a flowy trail that trails where Their arms went or something like that. He would be the guy to talk to about how to make that so that it doesn't, so that it doesn't shine into the camera. It creates like a, you know, a colorful trail as opposed, you know what, like a head torch where it's like just a point source, it's really bright kind of thing. Yeah. [00:45:58] Speaker C: Anyway, yeah, yeah, I've attached like a few LEDs and also like use like red lights and everything like that. But I haven't done it like that because generally with that sort of stuff, like you need a bit of obviously a bit better access and I probably need to lower the line as well in terms of. That's a cool technique. [00:46:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:21] Speaker B: Be more of a, like an artistic experience. That's not so much about the terrain, it's more just about, hey, we're going to try this thing. [00:46:30] Speaker C: Not like 2000 meters up in the air. [00:46:32] Speaker B: Yeah, that might be a bit tricky. [00:46:34] Speaker A: But I am used to interested to know about your own journey with slacklining. You mentioned earlier that once you were sort of accepted into the crew, they were like, well, you've got to do it now. You know, you won't truly be one of us until you get out there on that line. So what was that like for you? Did you start in a playground like Justin did? [00:46:52] Speaker C: No. So I wish I did, I wish I did. I wish I started. My actually my first line was about. I think it was either like it was about 70 to 100 meters high. [00:47:03] Speaker A: Oh. [00:47:04] Speaker C: So I'd never been on high line before and it was between bridges like of a highway. And yeah, it was just terrifying. Because the thing is though, with it as well, like, yes, height is a big one, but also you're on this piece of like nylon polyester webbing that's no wider than a 20 cent piece and anytime you move it just wobbles as well. So that in combination with the height just, it doesn't really put you at like fill you with confidence. Obviously as time goes past you, you learn to just put more, more on faith with the gear. But yeah, at the time not having any sort of kind of experience being on a like a cyclone or high line, even like a foot above the ground. It's an interesting experience. [00:47:49] Speaker A: That's amazing. And did you have a safety harness that was, that was anchored or were you going. [00:47:57] Speaker C: Yeah, so I have generally like with the athletes that I'm working with, they'll just have. It's kind of like it's just a climbing harness but then you have A leash that's roughly about meter, meter and a half, depending on the height of the person long. And so you fall for that 0.2 of a second sort of thing like that catches you and then you climb it and get back on the line. So you have that. But also, you know, the further you get in this sport as well, the more you're exposed to people who do it. Free soloing as well. [00:48:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And have you ever taken a tumble off a line? [00:48:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:28] Speaker A: Obviously you have to tell the story, but yeah. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Did you. So on that, on that. Okay, I've questions about this first one. On that day, did you know you were going to be trying it on that day or was it like, okay, you've taken your photos now at you go. [00:48:41] Speaker A: Yeah, come on, you boy. [00:48:45] Speaker C: I hadn't, I had no knowledge of any. Yeah. Anything that was going to happen apart from taking photo photos that day. My plan was to go, go there. It was kind of my first intro in terms of being like photographing a sponsored team. Like UFC got professional athletes, but it was like a sponsored team. So I was like, oh, it's all about the athletes. No way in the world it's going to be about someone who's never been online before, let alone like, you know, if I'd been online before, maybe I'd have some inkling, you know, if the line was free. But it was like, no, no, no, you, Aiden. So. Wow. [00:49:20] Speaker A: And how far did you walk the entire span? [00:49:24] Speaker C: No, no, no. Like I, I'd never walked anything before, like even slacklining. So they even have the technique. Because the thing is though, like, yes, you can walk on the ground, everything like that. But something, there's a certain technique to actually walking something that moves as well. Yeah, I'm sure you'll be able to tell me, Justin, but it's, it's, it's. [00:49:43] Speaker B: It'S exactly what you're talking about where it's like it shakes a little bit, then you shake a little bit and then. And it's being able to let all that go and center yourself again. And it, it's. I can't imagine how hard it would be on a line longer. Like our line's not very. Because I'm assuming the longer the line, the more it can move, the bigger. [00:49:59] Speaker C: Those movements are to some extent. Because it can get to about like, I would say probably 2, 200 meters or something like that. And you can get like, say for instance, like, it will like kind of reverberate off the anchor, like what energy you put into the line. So say for instance if you're wobbly, it goes into the anchor and comes back even more intense, so. Oh wow. Yeah. So if you're really shaky. Yeah. So it like it can be really, really wobbly. But the thing is though, like the longer the line also, unless you've got like external things like wind and everything like that, it can actually more stable as well. So like for instance, with, you know, we've rigged lines up to about 3km and.3km long. Yeah, 3km long doesn't even make sense. [00:50:48] Speaker B: Who carries that up there? How heavy is the three kilometer line? [00:50:55] Speaker C: A lot. But also like it's light for what it is because it's only, I think it's about 20, 20, 30 grams per meter. So like, yes, I've descent it's quite heavy but also it could be a lot heavier. Like say for instance, your, your line, Justin, is probably. I don't know, it's probably. They're pretty thick though. I think those. [00:51:13] Speaker B: Yeah, they're like one tie down strap. [00:51:16] Speaker C: They're pretty thick. Yeah. And yeah there's also. [00:51:21] Speaker A: How do people. Sorry, how do people walk a line like even beyond like 200 or even 100 meters? Because it must be incredibly exhausting. Exhausting mentally and physically, the sport. [00:51:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I think when you're, you're working up to about a like 100, 200 meters, it's so intensive because like, because you're putting so much into those sort of lines. But generally like as the line gets more stable, you're not exhausting as much effort to just control the line. Like. Yes, you are still doing that, but with these sort of lines you're building, you're building up that kind of stamina. So with this line here, this is I believe either 1.9 or 2 km long. [00:52:03] Speaker A: Coming up a hill. That's the walker down the bottom. [00:52:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:52:07] Speaker C: So yeah, you'll have this sag. So you actually like it can't just go straight across because it's like with the tension it has to actually have some slack in it. So you might actually like we did. Yeah, we did a, a walk, what was it, about a week, week and a half week ago. And that was a kilometer and a half and I think it was. You're probably going maybe up 50 to 100 meters. Like down and up over that. Yeah. So but like generally with these guys here, you'll have built up that stamina. So walking these lines is no thing. It's more so the conditions because. And if you're falling constantly, like It's a hard line. Obviously you're exhausted more and more. So they're the things that you're kind of catering for. Not like the fact that hey, can I walk two kilometers? They can. Well included walk it. But yeah, you've always got these external forces as well. [00:52:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So yeah, of course they're, they're, you know, they're professional athletes. But I noticed on a lot of the photos the line. So you've got the main line that they actually step upon and then you've got these trailing. Are they just there in case they do take a tumble and there's something for them to kind of wrap their limbs around just to prevent the fall free reign. [00:53:18] Speaker C: So you like generally when you're falling you don't want to be like catching the line at all like with those sort of lines because if you're trying to, you're on the way down generally you can't get a good grip slash. If your body touches or anything like that, you're probably going to get a bruise there and like it's actually going to hurt more than just actually just falling into the leash. But the, the backup there is just in case the main line. [00:53:40] Speaker A: Right, okay, yeah, I see. [00:53:42] Speaker B: That's what, that's what I assume because that's your only. You're anchored to the line. So it's like if, if that was a single line and it breaks, it's literally your anchor doesn't work because the line's broken. Whereas if you. [00:53:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:54] Speaker B: And all the tensions on the main line. So there's these loops that have no tension so they should hopefully sustain if, if there's a break. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're a backup. [00:54:06] Speaker C: Yeah. So they'll catch you. But they also like. The really good thing about these sort of ones is they act as a bit of a wind dampener as well where if you just had a main line like this, it would be so reactive anytime you take a step or anything like that it would just literally and it wouldn't, wouldn't stop. So with these it actually kind of dampens the line a bit as well. Like so if you have harsh winds and stuff like that, it's actually going to make it a little bit more manageable. [00:54:31] Speaker B: Well that's amazing because you get that in the wind with high tension on the line you get these like vibration, the wind vibration, you know, like, like a tie down strap on a trailer on a truck, you know, so, so having this, this piece sewn at intervals would, yeah. Would dampen that a tiny Bit, I guess. Yeah. [00:54:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:50] Speaker B: Interesting. And so I can't believe you didn't know anything about any of what's. [00:54:56] Speaker A: What's the highest and longest walk that in line that you've. That you've photographed, Aiden. [00:55:03] Speaker C: Highest would be 4,000 meters high, and then longest would be 3 kilometers long. [00:55:13] Speaker A: So 4,000 meters. [00:55:15] Speaker C: How. [00:55:15] Speaker A: How tall is Everest, do we know? [00:55:17] Speaker C: I think. Anyone? [00:55:18] Speaker B: I think it's 8,000 meters. Yeah. [00:55:22] Speaker C: Something. [00:55:22] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's halfway up Mount Everest. That's. [00:55:25] Speaker B: Are you. [00:55:26] Speaker A: Are you needing oxygen at that level? I don't know a lot about climbing, obviously. [00:55:30] Speaker C: No, no, you're fine. It's only like, altitude, thickness. [00:55:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:34] Speaker C: Kind of have to acclimatize, too, but as long as you're kind of building your way up, you're generally pretty fine. But yeah, it can definitely, definitely take its toll. Like, if you're a lot, then even, like, even photographing and you're exerting a lot, everything just seems to move a lot slower when you're at that altitude. [00:55:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:53] Speaker A: All right, well, that's a good segue. Let's talk a little bit about gear, which is Justin's favorite subject. Yeah, I was surprised he doesn't have a jingle and a graphic for it. [00:56:02] Speaker B: I've been waiting for it, but also. So I've got a ton of notes about gear, but I was just waiting till. We've sort of covered a fair bit of other stuff first. But there was a note here that would jump us into it from LTK photo, who asked, do you try to pack light? And I've got a heap of questions around that side of it, also about traffic, traveling with gear, about the fact that you have to travel with not only camera gear, but essentially climbing gear as well. So there's. There's tons of that that I'd like to ask about, but we should probably start with just the basics in terms of, like. Yeah. What's your philosophy around gear? What are you using now? [00:56:35] Speaker C: Do you. [00:56:35] Speaker B: Do you want a big variety of gear on these shoots, or you're trying to keep it as light and small as possible? Tell us about it. [00:56:41] Speaker C: So I'll try and unpack it as best. As best. Because there's always, like, a lot of variations with it. Because generally I'm trying to pack as light as possible because usually with these sort of things, if it's just. If it's a day. Day shoot, obviously it's an exception. It's. It's a nice luxury to be like, oh, I'll just throw that extra lens in the bag and you know, all these sorts of things. Yeah. But when, with a lot of these ones, you're doing like two, three, four, like up to kind of 10 days. So you're having to take obviously clothes, food, water with hydration, like a 10, sleeping gear as well. And then also because you're part of a team, you'll be taking part of the line. It might be a climbing track, these sorts of things like harness, obviously. And there then your camera gear actually gets blast because you're a team person. So usually it's like maybe one or two lenses. Lenses or a sort of thing like that. And that's a really nice one that if you can. If you can take two, even three at max, you're really like, yeah, you've set up, you're in a good place. But yeah, so generally, generally I'll. I'll take that two pro, two, three lenses, max on a project, usually about two if I've got the. If I've got the room. But yeah, it does very vary a lot with what I'm taking because, yeah, I, I'm in a position where I'd love to be like a gear nerd and everything like that. And. But it's. I am unfortunately not in that position. It's more so because it's a. It's a tool at the end of the day for me to kind of harness that creativity and what, you know, whether it's, you know, with the lens I'm using or whether it's, you know, the body I'm using or anything like that, or even memory cards, anything like that, Anything I'm using is for a straight, strict purpose to execute something that I know will deliver when I need it to. Because it might be, you know, the last light of the day. I need to get that frame or I need to get to that position or whatever, and I need to know that that gear is going to hold up. Like, I've shot, I've been hit by some of the biggest waves in the world. I've been shooting in deserts, snowstorms, everything like that. And I can't just be like, oh, you know, I'll just throw that in for the sake of it. If I know that, say, for instance, if it isn't, you know, correctly weatherproofed or anything like that, I need to know it holds up. So packing the gear is like really, really critical. Like, obviously, preparation, everything as well, but also knowing exactly what I'm putting in that bag is really important as well, in terms of gear. Yeah. [00:59:12] Speaker B: All right, well, Talk to us, what's your main kit and if it's. And then if you've got more than what you would take on any one job, what's kind of of like your go to stuff that you would take on, say an overseas trip or something like that? Tell us through exactly everything. [00:59:28] Speaker C: Yeah, so you do have, you do have some exceptions. Like say for instance if you are photographing three kilometer line, you know that's not your every day. But generally, generally my kit will involve a Z8. It'll involve usually a 24 to 70, 70 to 200, just staples if I have got the room. 14 to 24 as well is really, really nice as well to kind of counteract the fact of not taking huge lenses when, when I can't afford the weight. I'll take just an extender as well, which does help. [01:00:03] Speaker B: Nice. [01:00:04] Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense. [01:00:06] Speaker B: Have you, have you. So you switched to Nikon recently? Have you got the new 24 to 70 that just come out? You know that new one that they just released? Is it lighter and stuff? [01:00:18] Speaker C: Is that so? Unfortunately, I haven't got my hands on it yet. I think it gets released in about a week or two or so. It does look incredible in terms of the fact that yes, it's lighter. External zoom is a big one, but wait for me is a massive one. And also I think it's meant to be around five times faster which if you've got a flip. But yeah, I'd love to use it. But yeah, unfortunately it's just not available at the moment. So. [01:00:49] Speaker A: Yeah, and so you only take. Sorry, I didn't cut you off. You only take the one camera body with you or do you have a backup? [01:00:57] Speaker C: If I've got the space, I'll take an extra lens and I'll take an extra body. So I'll take a Z6.3 which is really, really nice. That in combination with yeah 14 to 24 is like the luxury of a kit but unfortunately it just keeps getting scaled back massively. So yeah, usually, usually it's the two lenses and just a workhorse Z8 that I know that the client needs. I can also blow it up to a billboard. [01:01:24] Speaker B: Well, that's what I was going to ask about because often megapixels aren't that important in professional work. It gets, it gets usually overblown a little bit in amateur circles but then in professional work you're like, look, 24 is fine for most of the stuff that we do, but given that your work is, is often essentially a Highly detailed landscape image with a human the size of an ant in it. But that is the, the critical information. It's like having the flexibility to either go big on the print for like a large campaign or something for a client, or to be able to crop in for a different aspect for something. So do you find that for you, that resolution, like 45 megapixels, is the sweet spot for what you would like to have on any given shoot? [01:02:16] Speaker C: Yeah, like, I think if you're, if you're seeing around 20, 24, yes, it's really, really nice. And generally most of the time it's okay. But with the work that I'm doing, as you said, with the vast landscapes, you want to be able to actually have options, whether that's printing 2, 3 meters big for a print sale or for an exhibition or something like that. But also if you do want to crop in, also, whether you love it or don't, social media is a big one. And when you're cropping everything as a 910 or anything like that, yeah, you'd need to kind of actually have that option as well. And you know, like, that's, it's, you know, as I said, like, whether you love or you don't, it's a big part of when you're working with clients as well, that they do have options in terms of whether they want it to run as a campaign, like, in terms of like an external. Like whether it's. Or anything like this or like in offices or anything like that, or whether it is for socials, they want those options. So, you know, even, even for instance, like a lot of the time coming out of press, I'll be like, oh, JPEG is more than enough, because it's all about time, time, time. But then when I'm working with clients, say for instance, like with Red Bull, they're like, oh, we want JPEGs. And so you are actually having to be maximizing every element, whether it's your formats in terms of like your ratios and everything like that, whether it's your file type. So, yeah, generally Z8 is covering every option, plus being a workhorse in terms of video as well. [01:03:46] Speaker A: Yeah, it's what Jim shoots with. Jim's one of our co hosts here on the Camera Life podcast. He shoots with the Z8. He's got two green. [01:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah, he runs two. Because he does. He shoots a lot of weddings and stuff like that. So he runs two Z8s, but he does some sports and stuff too. And he's actually, he's in A weird spot where he's ended up through weddings, end up shooting all primes. So he's just kind of digging back in. Yeah. So a lot of the sports that we. He's shot recently, like he's the, the F Mount 105.1.4 for tons of stuff like mountain biking and all sorts of stuff. It looks awesome, but it's, you know, it's, it's heavy and it's. Yeah. One vocal length. [01:04:23] Speaker C: It's not the most versatile but amazing. [01:04:26] Speaker B: Amazing when you nail it and then you're like, okay, so now he's sort of. He's. I think he got his first like a new zed mount wide angle lens recently and I think he's been eyeing off for 70 to 200. Just getting back into that sort of sports world. Oh, that's a question I have. So you. Okay, you switched from Canon to Nikon a year ago or something or. [01:04:47] Speaker C: Yeah, about a year ago. [01:04:48] Speaker B: Yeah, about a year ago. [01:04:49] Speaker C: It would have been. Yeah, would have been July, July last year or so. Yeah. [01:04:55] Speaker B: Okay. One, you suck. No, so because I've switched from Canon to Nikon, back to Canon again. Love Canon. You guys are amazing. Do you miss, and you can be honest here. Do you miss the 70 to 202.8 from the canon system? That's so small. Did you have that lens, the. The RF 70 to 200. Do you, do you miss that compactness? [01:05:23] Speaker C: So yeah, it, I think size wise, yeah, like it's, it's hard not to miss it. But also in saying that like I'm using like Z7200 at the moment and absolutely love it. Like it's. To be honest, like I've heard varying things. Like some people say it's the heaviest lens ever. But also like some people be like, oh, it's, it's barely. Like you barely notice it. [01:05:44] Speaker B: And I'm like, wait, what is that? [01:05:46] Speaker C: It's. But I've, I've always found it such a light and small lens in terms of that like. Yes, yes, I do miss in terms of just that physical size and it's hard not to miss that in, in reality. [01:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah, of course. [01:05:57] Speaker C: But in terms of. With my kids it's already super light anyway. And also I know that what I can get out of like the Z7200 is going to be awesome anyway. So I love, I love that combination the Z8. But yeah, I think physical size, it's hard not to miss it. But I think yeah, it's kind of like what you were saying. About the new, the new 24 to 70 as well, like in terms of weight and everything like that. Yes, it's going to be, it's gonna be lighter and everything like that. But, you know, if something also works, then, you know, you can get really good results out of it. Then I'm just gonna stick it in the bag. [01:06:37] Speaker B: So it's not a massive. Okay, so Canon's RF 7202.8, the original one, which is the one that goes quite compact, that's the one I've got. That's 1070 grams. That is a very lightweight length. Like they kind of broke the mold with that when it come out. [01:06:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:54] Speaker B: But the Nikon without a tripod color is 13 something, 1350. So it's not like you're not talking like double the weight or anything. It's not like 300 grams. And that can. You often have to look at things, I guess, in a full kit too, because you lose on one, you gain on the other, you know. Canon's current 24 to 70 is 950 grams. I don't know if they've got a new version in the way. I, I just bought their 28 to 72.8, which is like their new lighter weight one. It's great, little lens, really cool. And I've got the 16 to 28 2.8 as well. So that kit is super light. But in their pro level stuff, yeah, 950 grams for a 24 to 70 versus whatever Nikon's new one is, it's like 5 or 600 grams or something. So, yeah, you win. So you lose some depending on the, on the lens. It's sort of, kind of. Yeah, yeah. Anyway. Interesting. [01:07:44] Speaker A: Aidan, I just want to talk a little bit about working with clients and, and how you fulfill a brief, but I just, just before I ask my question, I just wanted to say that. So your client base includes the Olympics, Red Bull, Getty Images, Cirque du Soleil, is it Petzl, Black diamond, North Face, the Australian Olympic Committee, Yahoo. Institute of Sport, Paddle Australia and government bodies. So when a client sets a brief for you, say with, with a high line gig, how much creative freedom have you got in, in where and how the shots are taken? Because you're not just focusing on, on, you know, the, the, the athlete, you know, 100, 200, 300 meters out on the line, but you're also composing landscape shots and they've got to be accurate and compelling in their own way. So what level of freedom do you have when a client says okay, well, here's the brief. These are the shots we need. We need some hero shots, we need some close ups from a distance. Talk to us about the brief process. [01:08:47] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a nice luxury when you have complete creative freedom, but then you do also get the commercial shoots where there's a little bit more structure to it in terms of that. Like, we need these key things. Um, I've been really, really fortunate in terms of like career wise and when I started going highlanding that and I, I guess it kind of lends itself to that. Like, I guess I've kind of proven that I can deliver as well in that sense as well. So that, you know, when I go on a project, whether it's for a world record or whatever like that, and I'm shooting for, it could be literally, it could be for. It could be for Red Bull, it could be for a local beer company, it could be anyone like that, that they're going, okay, we trust you. Like, yes, it might. It'll be really, really nice in terms of getting like, whether it's, you know, branding on a T shirt the athlete's wearing or you know, these sorts of key things, or whether it's just complete creative freedom. Like, I'm really fortunate in that sense where I do have a lot of, a lot of brands that do come to me and they're just like, we trust you, you know, what works, you know, what doesn't, you know, the athletes. And that's a really, that's like the compliment. But for me, coming from like, I don't know, press is a long time ago for me, like in terms of being in the heart of it. But you're used to going, but yeah, there's surely some brief at the end of it like this there's something you want, right? So I kind of feel like I'm like under all of that there's still something I need to. But at the end of the day, I've kind of gotten to a stage now where I do have that complete creative freedom. When I am working with companies like Red Bull, there's just a few target things that I do need to make sure that I'm delivering or I'll deliver things that I know that they like to see or they'll use it for, so they won't directly ask me that. I'm like, I'm delivering this because I know you use it in that, that way. So I think it's just an understanding thing as well. Like, yes, you do have that mutual respect. And yes, it is really nice to have a shooting brief. But think when you do come into something and you do have a complete creative freedom, that's just like a breath of fresh air, add more pressure. But yeah, you know, you also back yourself as well because you know what works, you know what's going to look good. [01:10:52] Speaker A: There's also the confidence that client believes in you. Like you said, like they, they obviously trust your skills, they trust your output and what you're going to deliver to the point where they don't even need to be specific with you anymore. That's. That's a pretty impressive place to be as a creative. [01:11:08] Speaker C: It's the dream, right? [01:11:10] Speaker A: It is, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Shoot what you want and get paid in the process. Like, you know. [01:11:15] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:11:16] Speaker A: You're an Aiden. I've gone off you now. [01:11:20] Speaker B: What happened now? [01:11:23] Speaker A: Lucky scrap for you. [01:11:25] Speaker B: I do. I've got more questions about gear and traveling and stuff like that. But while we're on this topic, I wanted to ask you about planning, visualization and that kind of thing because like, I'm just going to pull this up. I've seen that you. Oh God, I love this shot. And I've talked about. Yeah, I know you, you plan and, and even diagram shots in advance and I wanted to hear a little bit about that process. But also ultimately I had the question, how often does the shot and the best shot from the shoot end up being what you plan to visualize and then how often is the. That just part of the process, but it ends up completely evolving once the shoot unfolds and you come up with something, you know, different altogether? [01:12:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know in terms of like a percentage wise about like how often that, you know, like in terms of, you know, I. E. Mark a shot like this one, say for instance, like in the Valley of Gods in Utah in the US that, you know, I. E. Mark something as the shot and then therefore I capture it and then I still go, oh, that's the, that's a shot. Generally, generally I would say probably, like, probably I've gotten more efficient with it, but I would say like 80, 90% of the time that if I draw something out, you know, I get the right conditions and everything kind of lines up. In terms of when I get to the location as well, that, that is the shot. That's the one that I've done my research. That's the one that I've scouted. I've looked over Google Maps, I've looked at past images from that location in terms of whether it's just like a tourist or whatever, like that. And that's the one that actually pulls through. Usually. [01:13:13] Speaker B: That's a high percentage. That's amazing. [01:13:16] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a lot of trial and error as well, because, say, for instance, like with this one here, it's like you might be out there for a week and you might get, I don't know, half an hour to get that shot. And it might be that time of the day that you just. You're feeling. You're not feeling it at all. But I think, like, when it comes to these sorts of things in preparation, I've gotten better and better in terms of knowing what works, but also doesn't work in terms of when I'm. I'm prepping. And like, I do give the disclaimer that what works for me won't necessarily work. You know, know if. If you are shooting weddings or doing these sorts of things, like, it doesn't. Or if, say, for instance, even if someone's shooting Highlanding as well, that's not necessarily a guarantee. Be like, oh, if you draw it out like this, or follow Aiden's this, that's going to work. I know that works for me. And that gives me a really good understanding. Like, say, for instance, if you go back to. Or across two photos to the diagram. Sorry, like, in terms of this, if you kind of zoom in, you'll have, like, yes, you'll have a shot, but then you'll also have where I'll be at particular times as well, of the day and where I visualize that I need to be, what I need to do and what kind of shot it will be as well. And that's. That gives me a really good understanding that when I get to that location, because usually I won't have time when I actually get to location to be like, oh, I'll take like a day or two just to plan it out. It's usually ahead of time. And then it's like, go, go, go. And I can obviously abbreviate it and change that, like in. In altering it. But usually I'll give myself this space to go. Okay, these are the. These are the spots. These are the locations. Timeframe that I think, you know, where the sun will be, where the athlete would be. You never know where they'll be, but they're. The higher. You're pretty much. You're pretty much playing with the idea that it's giving you the best chance of success. [01:15:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I agree. I think it's a great process because, you know, you're not only visualizing, but you. You're cutting out a lot of that time once you actually are on site, you know, you don't then need to go and scout necessarily. You know, you still got to be flexible and adaptable and pivot with changes because there's, you know, the sun's moving, the weather, the clouds are moving. Everything's, you know, on the go. But. But yeah, it's a great process. It's. It reminds me of when I started film photography in art school and we were part of the, you know, the gear list is that you had to have a notebook and a pencil with you at all times because you were jotting down ideas, you were writing down film set, camera settings for the shots you took, planning stuff, you know, and we don't see that as much anymore. But it is refreshing to see that, that you adopt that for your own personal approach. [01:15:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I think it kind of comes from. I think when I was. Yeah, probably when I was doing my hsc, actually. Everything's about a visual diary. I feel like it's. With visual arts. Everything's relating back to the diary. And I kind of just kept it with me both to log what went right with shoots, what went wrong. Like, it could be literally a technique that I need to nail for the next shoot or these sorts of things I didn't do as well. But also I'd be like, oh, it's a really good space to just. You never know when an idea is going to hit either. Like, you could literally be. You could be on it mid flight, wherever, and you're like, oh, that's the idea. That's the shot, that's this. And you want to be able to actually put that into. Into practice and be able to visualize that as well. Because you don't want to be going up to like one of these sort of projects where, yes, they are higher stakes. Just be kind of figuring it out because you're losing time, you're not as efficient, and you're probably generally letting down the team as well. In that sort of realm, you want to be as prepped as possible. And if you're prepping all your other other elements, you want to be prepping how you're shooting as well. And by all means, like, with these sorts of things, it's like, it's not like a bible of mine where I go, you can only shoot these spots. Like, yeah, you get to a location and, you know, if. If I do see something, I do notice how the light falls on a particular angle. Angle in the shadows. Who knows, there could be a rainbow in it. I want to be able to know that, oh, that's actually a shot or that's. And you need to leave that kind of that little window open as well to have that success in that element. Because I've had shoots where I never thought that there would be a particular shot that is like the highlight of ends up being that way. And that's a really nice place to be because you're like, oh, I just worked out on the spot. I saw how everything fell and I actually just acted accordingly and I nailed it as well, which is the ultimate thing. But you know, if you kind of log everything in a diary and you nail everything from that, that brief or that you've set yourself, it's a pretty good feeling too. But yeah, of course it doesn't really fall that way. Let's be honest. Like it doesn't fall that way all the time. Like there's so many variables, but they do. [01:18:08] Speaker A: You know, it's that whole thing of poor. What is it my boss used to say? Poor preparation promotes piss poor performance. Yeah, that has stuck with me. That's the only thing I learned from him. Good old Jeff. That's not true. Sorry, Justin, I hijacked your gear. Questions? [01:18:21] Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no. We'll get back to gear later. I want to know, so do you have any advice for photographers out there that have never tried this method before? I know it's going to be different because they're not on week long shoots or whatever, but how could just us regular old photographers just try this method out? What would your advice be to just how do we go about just giving it a try? [01:18:45] Speaker C: Yeah. So it definitely doesn't need to be a week long shoot or anything like that because that's just an extreme situation. Like I've done it for short lengths as well. You know, it's just like an hour commercial shoot or you know you're going out for the day or whatever like that. But I think it's like whether you actually use it or you don't, I think the process is actually the main thing from it. And that's the fundamental skill because it reinforces to you that you're not going out there just fine and dry willy nilly, just hoping you're actually going in with a plan. And it just helps you as well in learning how to prepare properly. Like not for the team, but just for or model or whoever you're working with in whatever genre either. But actually just for your own Sake. It reinforces that your visions are actually, you can put them into practice. It's not like say for instance, if I'm. Or if there's someone out there that photographs with models or you know, fashion or anything like that. You don't want to go there and just be like, oh, it's just that outfit. You want to actually know how to direct them. You know how to get certain, certain shots and stuff like that. It's, it's complimentary for them because you can just. But also it saves time and you're more efficient as well. But yeah, I would say in terms of practicing like literally you don't need a diary or anything. You can do it on a napkin or a piece of paper or whatever you have around. Pen, pencil, anything, crayon, who knows. But I think, I think just putting. There's something magical about putting just something on paper. It can be anything. It can literally. It doesn't need to be a drawing. It can just be words like say for instance. This isn't something people need to practice. But say for instance with me every time before shoot and then also after a shoot, I'll write just a little, a little passage. It's a. Just a self reflection, like a letter to myself. You know, no one's going to read it or anything like that. But it's just about things that I'm really happy that I did, I nailed on the shoot, but also things that I feel like I can really improve upon. And that just puts it into perspective for me because I'm like, okay, I can give myself that review as well. And there's something really magical about just putting on paper, allowing you to actually visualize it and then you get to that location or for the next shoot or whatever, you know, you know really what you're doing as well. Yeah. So I would highly recommend it to people like you don't need to do or anything. And you might have a method that works, you know, you might. So you go, what do you know, Aiden? I have photos on my phone and you know, of different poses and you know, why do I need to put it on a piece of paper? But there's also like a really nice self reflection because you need to be actually, really, really present and you need to be thinking about what you're doing to actually put it onto paper as well. And that just reinforces it more. Yeah, I love it. [01:21:27] Speaker A: And let's face it, using an app or jotting it on your phone, it's a great solution because we all carry a phone now, but the amount of time I've been mid, you know, writing an email or, or, you know, trying to get in touch with, and notifications are dropping in, you're not mindful at that point. Whereas when you go, when you go old school with it, with a note, a notebook and a pen or a pencil or a crayon, you can shut all of that out and just focus on the task. Yeah. And still today, I still carry a moleskin notebook or sketchbook with me wherever I go. I don't use it a lot, but every now and then, like, if Justin and I have a meeting, I might, you know, we might jot some stuff down on that. And yeah, I really love that, that process too. [01:22:08] Speaker B: Did you skin the mole yourself or did someone do that for you? [01:22:11] Speaker A: No, I paid someone to do that. [01:22:13] Speaker B: That's okay. [01:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, no, I'm not. Look, these hands, these, these are what make the magic. I'm not putting these at risk. [01:22:22] Speaker B: All right, back to gear. Back to gear. I love that. That was very interesting. It was definitely on my list of stuff to dig into. [01:22:28] Speaker C: That's a nice transition, by the way. [01:22:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Back to gear. Smoothest moskins gear. So, okay, so primarily you would have a Z8, a 2477200, which just to confirm that was the 2.8 version, not the F4 version, in case you end up with lower light and that kind of thing. Now, sometimes a Z6.3 as a backup and sometimes a wide angle or as often as possible, a wide angle as well. [01:22:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:23:00] Speaker B: What do you. Okay, let's pretend you're heading overseas. I think I saw somewhere that. And I don't know if this, if I heard this wrong because it sounds quite insane. You said sometimes on trips you can go through 20 to 30 airports. Did I hear that right? Maybe that was a mega trip. I think this was in years ago. I saw this somewhere I can. I can't remember. [01:23:24] Speaker C: So I don't know whether on one trip, like, I don't know where this is being pulled, thrown. I don't know whether it's one trip, but this year alone, like, yes, September. Holy. Holy moly. Yeah, I've been on 50 flights just this year. So. Okay. [01:23:42] Speaker A: How many? Sorry. [01:23:45] Speaker C: Wow. [01:23:46] Speaker B: Okay. [01:23:46] Speaker C: Yeah, just this year. [01:23:48] Speaker B: So talk to me about what bag do you put all this stuff in? Camera bag wise. Because. Because I'm assuming on a lot of these trips you're also carrying obviously all of your gear for the rest of the trip. Clothes and all that sort of stuff. Any gear that you need for your. Because the, the team won't carry your harness and stuff. I assume they're not that they're not that nice. No. Okay. [01:24:07] Speaker C: They're good friends. But yeah. [01:24:09] Speaker B: So you're, you're trying to minimize your luggage and everything. How do you pack your camera gear and then how do you get it onto a plane under the weight limits? [01:24:21] Speaker C: Yeah, that's. So there's a, there's a few answers to this and I'll kind of get through them. So in terms of, in terms of bags, I've kind of. You try and test quite a few. Like, like when I first started, if stop was really, really big and that was kind of the go to for adventure photographers. [01:24:40] Speaker B: Like got a few of those. [01:24:41] Speaker C: If you're an adventure or sports, you've got to have like, like that sort of thing like that. And have definitely tried bags like low pro and everything, which have always been really nice. But I've actually for like I find that when, when I was actually hiking and everything like that, even if it was just a day hike that I just wouldn't have enough support and I'd just be like, I'd be tired. I'd like my back would be ruined anywhere. And so I actually got a hold of one of the Shimoda X30s. [01:25:09] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [01:25:11] Speaker C: With their, their range and love it in terms of just support everything like that. It has just kind of the duffel top so you can just roll in, you can extend it, you can do all those sorts of things. So if I'm traveling through airports, that's pretty much my best for carry on. If, like there's gonna be a lot of ifs in this because it, there's kind of different situations if I, if I'm just doing like day trips or like those sorts of things, then I'll just take the X30. That's more than enough for me because I can fit, you know, three lenses in. I can, you know, I can just carry as well like through like a peak lip. Just a body on me as well. So it's more than enough. But if I am just going on a hike, of course I have yellow as well. By the way. Anyone who kind of knows me is like, oh, of course I have the yellow as well. Like anyone the yellow. Oh yeah. I was like, yes. [01:26:06] Speaker B: So this is the one, the roll top. So it's the roll top. It's got a heap of space in it by the looks of it. You know what I like because I hate roll. I hate roll tops. I love that they're expandable but I hate having to get into them. But they put on this. Yeah, the zip is there, so you don't actually have to unroll the roll top to get into that top. I reckon that's genius. Whoever come up with that is a clever person. [01:26:31] Speaker C: So, so good. But yeah, it's more than enough space for me. And like with this one here, this one just. I think it's just the base level x 30 is. Yeah, more than enough for most people. I. With the. I think you can either get the medium or large and they also like inserts and they actually fit into this one as well. So when I'm on a bigger one, I can actually just extend it. So I've got more in the back as well. Yeah, so you can actually have the room at the top. Sorry, I'm just like. And you can actually extend that. So, yeah, it does decrease your roll top, which can be a little bit of a pain. But also, to be honest, for me, maybe, maybe I'm like in the minority here, but when I'm just fast working like a roll, so I can just literally just shut my hand in real quick, like that sort of thing, rather than trying to work out a zipper and, you know. [01:27:24] Speaker A: I've got a wander. [01:27:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:25] Speaker A: 21, it's got the roll top and yeah, I don't mind them. I. I don't like it when I've filled the roll top so much that it's coming up and banging me in the back of the head when I'm wearing it. But everything's good if you just need to jump, like dump stuff in it quickly. Like you've got your gear down the bottom, which is accessible from the back. But yeah, I like the roll top because I can stuff a hoodie in there and a banana and, you know, stuff. [01:27:47] Speaker C: So, yeah, couple of. [01:27:49] Speaker B: Couple of quick comments. Lisa Leach says, love my Shimoda. Matt. Matt talks photography Matt Palmer Legend yeah, so good. Says I use the X30 for carry on as well. Works well have the larger one for local or camping. [01:28:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:28:03] Speaker B: The makers were partly inspired by the Dark kind sequence bag designed for Snowboard photographers maybe 15 to 20 years ago. [01:28:10] Speaker C: Wow, that's awesome. [01:28:13] Speaker B: I'm a constant bag. I'm always looking for the right bag. Don't have it. Still haven't found. [01:28:19] Speaker C: I know what you mean. [01:28:20] Speaker B: My current. My current go to is the mind shift rotation 6 litre because it does. [01:28:28] Speaker C: Such a good design. [01:28:29] Speaker B: It's an amazing design, but if you've got. It only works because that Canon 7200 is compact enough to fit mounted in that waist pouch. As soon as your gear expands into the top part of the bag as well, it becomes useless because. Because you're constantly like having to, you know, it's not in this section, it's in that section. It's just a pain in the ass. So it's like, it only really works if you can fit your whole kit in that little bottom rotation section. So, yeah, it's interesting. Who else did I have? Oh, Tony, thanks for the 299. I know he probably is. He's probably at work, so he's probably not listening anymore. But we appreciate it. He said it's this month's wheelbarrow rent. I don't even know what that means. [01:29:04] Speaker A: I don't either. Tony, what are you on about? [01:29:06] Speaker B: What are you on about? I have no idea. But I appreciate the 299. I'll have a dollar, Aidan will have a dollar, and Greg can get 99 cents. Yeah, well, I'll take it for the two. And then there were a few. We got distracted before. There were a few questions earlier before we get back onto bags and packing and stuff. There was a few questions about. David Mascara said, sounds like you don't use a telephoto. Obviously the 7200 is a telephoto. But is that like the longest you use is that plus a teleconverter generally. [01:29:37] Speaker C: So there are exceptions to that. Like, that's generally my kit. Like, generally if I do have something where there's an exception for like an extra long line like that, I'll definitely use whether it's, you know. Yeah, probably. Probably like a 6 or 800 as well. I've used as well, like quite a bit like the zeds, which are. But size wise, I don't think I'm really going to take that naturally. Like, I find that, you know, 7200 is more than enough. But I do have the exception about getting, getting longer too. That's like, yes, I could go 100 to 400 in that range and everything. But I kind of like having that crossover too, which is really nice for me. But yeah, it's a constant thought that I'm like, okay, what am I actually maximizing in my kit? Because I'd love to have these lenses and it would be so nice to, you know, I've had. Had people that are like, oh, I take my, my x 70, like 70 liter and that's incredible. I have all these lenses. I'm like, that's the Dream. But unfortunately I'm trying to maximize. And usually as well I'm. I'm away from home for quite a while as well. Like I'll be away but it could be a couple of weeks to a couple of months. So I'm usually from project to project to project, airport to airport, you know. But I'm trying to keep my kid as referring to blind as possible. So it would be, it would be nice to have those lenses, but unfortunately not all the time. [01:31:01] Speaker A: That's not to. Not to forget. You're also traversing some pretty crazy landscapes to get to a spot that works. And those spots may not be, you know, the sign posted, you know, lookout, you know, you're finding really unique locations and directions. So you've got to carry that gear with you up to that spot. [01:31:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing where it's like yes, it's, it's great to have all this gear. But you, you remember that you're the one who's hiking it all as well. You're going to be the one who's taking it for the next week. So you only have yourself to blame too. [01:31:33] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Apparently my side hustle is renting out wheelbarrows. I still don't know what that means, Tony. I have no idea what you talk. [01:31:41] Speaker A: About, but I love it. [01:31:44] Speaker B: Okay, so you try and fit everything in the X30. What laptop are you rolling with when you're traveling? [01:31:51] Speaker C: So I've got at the moment I think it's yeah 13.13inch MacBook Pro. 13 or 14. I remember what it is now. [01:32:00] Speaker B: 14 is the newer ones, I think. [01:32:01] Speaker C: 14, yeah. Yeah, there we go. Yep. So good for. Yeah, yeah, it's perfect because I think I was, I was running with a 2020 first engine for like a while there and when I started doing like all this video work as well side and it just a nightmare. I think my computer was hating me so eventually just bit the bullet a couple of months ago and just upgraded my system and yeah, I'll usually take that wherever I am. If I'm out for a week in the middle of nowhere, I won't take it. But it's other otherwise. Yeah, it just lives kind of with. [01:32:37] Speaker A: Me because there was a question from LTK Photos that said do you edit on site or after your trips with this one? [01:32:48] Speaker C: It depends about the client and the output of it. Like if it's, if it's a kind of world record. It sounds kind of funny because you'd think for a world record it's like you're launching it straight away kind of thing like that. But usually with those sorts of things, they're kind of. You with the team are kind of controlling the narrative. You're controlling when it to. Comes. Comes out. So if you are in a remote place, usually you do have time frame. Usually the, the client's like, okay, when, you know, when everything's ready, when it, when it's ready with the short film or when it's ready with this photo essay, we'll launch it, that sort of thing like that. But say, for instance, like with Red Bull, I'm editing on site, I'm delivering usually within 30 to 30 minutes to an hour after the shoot. Wow. [01:33:31] Speaker B: Wow. [01:33:32] Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, Jeff Cable was telling us last week. Yes, we had Jeff Cable on people that his deadline went from early days where it was weeks and days. Now he's. His deadline is 14 minutes from the event. [01:33:45] Speaker B: 14 minutes, yeah, yeah. [01:33:46] Speaker A: And he, you know, and he will edit on site and then. [01:33:52] Speaker C: Crazy. [01:33:52] Speaker A: And then get to the next event, you know, like, just phenomenal. [01:33:56] Speaker C: Well, yeah, I was talking to a couple of the press guys that like shoot at Olympics as well. And I was just like. Because I've come out of press and then I've come back into like adventure sports and like doing all these sorts of things where usually time frames, like, they're quick. They're not that quick, like 14 minute wise. And I'm just always looking to get better and better and better. And you know, they're like, oh, ours just gets sent off like within like 15 seconds to an editor off site and they do it. I'm just like, yeah, that doesn't. [01:34:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:34:29] Speaker C: Where's my crazy. [01:34:30] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Where's your cloud editor? Just up there. [01:34:34] Speaker C: Yeah, but that's the dream stuff. [01:34:36] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [01:34:39] Speaker A: One day. One day, right. [01:34:42] Speaker B: So that's basically how now. Okay, so what does that thing weigh and how do you get it on planes when almost carry on is still like 7 kilos? And by the time. So I put. I went to New Zealand, I put the R5 Mark II, the 28 to 70, the 16 to 28 and the 7200. And I only took the F4. I borrowed Grant's F4 7200, which weighs like the Canon one. It weighs like, I don't know, nothing. 700 grams or something. Just those and my MacBook and I was overweight. [01:35:14] Speaker C: Can I ask who you apply? [01:35:16] Speaker A: Was it Jetstar? [01:35:17] Speaker B: Oh, it was. No, I flew with Jetstar Qantas and in New Zealand all of them were seven kilos. Carry on. [01:35:24] Speaker C: Oh, okay. It's. I've stopped flying. Like, honestly, who. It doesn't matter who people fly with. But as. As a photographer, I've stopped flying with Jetstar completely. [01:35:35] Speaker B: I love it. [01:35:36] Speaker C: So I was flying with them and I would always get picked up and wait, like, even with. Similar to you in terms of like, two lenses, a body, then you've got like a series of batteries and like a power bank or whatever it is, you're always overweight. [01:35:49] Speaker A: And laptop, it's so easy to overfill. And I shoot with a Fuji kit, which is tiny, and I've been pulled up on weight before. [01:35:55] Speaker B: Even like 10 kilos. That's the thing. It's like 10 kilos would be enough. I could make that work most of the time, but it's like, it's always 8 at even with the bare minimum. [01:36:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:36:06] Speaker B: So, okay, so what do you do? [01:36:07] Speaker C: Nothing. [01:36:07] Speaker B: You just. You just don't fly Jetstar? Is that the secret? [01:36:11] Speaker C: So, pretty much. Long story short, yeah, I. I stopped flying them because I was. I was even getting picked up for like a couple of. Yeah, it would have been like, I would be barely over it, like, seven point. I know, 7.1, 7.2. And they'd be like, no, you're gonna have to pay the extra 30, $36 or whatever. And I was like, come on. It's like, yeah, but like, I try and shift as much weight to, like, my check package as possible. Like, but then you still, regardless with equipment, you have to put it in here. Like, you can use. You can use hard cases and stuff. But if you're flying internationally, like, I've had to do. [01:36:47] Speaker B: Do that in the past for trips, snowboard trips to Japan where I took extra when I. If I take a spare body, it is. Yeah, I put it. I put it in a hard case, put in my snowboard bag and tried to, like, packed it in between boots so that they would take, you know, like, the pressure and all that kind of stuff. But you still get there and you, like, open the case and you're like. [01:37:05] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, is there a cracked lcd? Like, what is it? [01:37:09] Speaker A: Yeah, but then I see people who travel, like, for brands. So, like, I remember Lee De Prose, who used to work with Fujifilm, and he'd come to Melbourne from Sydney and he would just have a big. It was like a pelican case, but it was a soft case and he just chucked it under the plane. And a couple of mates of mine who travel a lot, repping Products. [01:37:27] Speaker C: Yeah, they. [01:37:28] Speaker A: They don't care. They just chuck it under the plane. There's, you know, they put it in socks and wrap it in a jumper and just, you know. [01:37:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:37:34] Speaker A: Thousand dollar lens, like, ought to be fine. There is a comment here from. From Levin Barrett of Rear View Photography. So Levin has been a past guest, but he's also a commercial airline pilot for Jetstar. Yeah, the difference is Jetstar weighs your carry on. The others have the same rules, but they never check it. [01:37:55] Speaker B: And he also said that's the thing. [01:37:56] Speaker C: That I was going to say to. [01:37:57] Speaker B: You for paying my wage. [01:38:01] Speaker A: Happy to help, Liv. Happy to help, mate. [01:38:03] Speaker C: Yeah, anything to help. But, yeah, I've had it where, like, when I was traveling for work and I was traveling, like, I don't want to just yet start. But I was just getting. I was having to pay and pay. It's like. And you never can add carry on. You can add check, but you can never add carry on. Like, it was really frustrating. [01:38:20] Speaker B: You can add carry on with Jetstar. Now, I think maybe it's only on certain routes. It's so you can go to 14 kilos carry on, but it's like 60 or 80 bucks. And yeah, it's. [01:38:32] Speaker A: They probably do that on, like, Melbourne to Sydney when not many people, a lot of people go up the day and they don't have much check luggage, so they probably can deal with the weight. [01:38:40] Speaker B: Yeah, but what's crazy is, like, the checked luggage is if you want like 40 kilos of checked luggage, it was about half the price of getting 14 kilos of carry on. It was. Yeah. But I do. I mean, I gave him credit because I was like, well, I've always complained that they don't give you an option and now they're at least giving you an option. But the option was insane. So. [01:38:58] Speaker C: Yeah, fair enough. Well, at least you've got the option now. But so the way that like, like, hopefully, yeah, I was gonna say hopefully there's no airlines listening, but we've already had a link to Jetstar and, you know. [01:39:10] Speaker A: Yeah, taking names. [01:39:12] Speaker B: Yeah, you just made the point. [01:39:15] Speaker C: My name, you know, everything now. But what I did find that actually generally works. And hopefully, hopefully, you know, people actually use it. But also it doesn't come back to bite me now because people do use it that. So generally when I'm flying, say for instance with Virgin, first of all, they don't weigh it. And if they do weigh it, what you can do as well is, and I have done is they allow you to take a bag Plus a personal item. They don't specify generally about how heavy your personal item could be. So a laptop with 10 batteries generally passes. Yeah, so that's usually. So usually when I'm traveling on the plane, it's usually about 15 kilos. [01:39:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:39:57] Speaker B: I think the key. The key is like, you got to make it look light and small, you know, and in your pockets. [01:40:03] Speaker A: And in your pocket. [01:40:04] Speaker B: Yeah. So that's the other secret is, is you. You travel with a jacket, hopefully a lightweight jacket, but one with tons of pockets. And you put all of. I put all my batteries. The batteries are in all the pockets. So that. Worst case, if I see the person. Don't listen to this, Levin. If I see the person coming down to weigh the bags, you pull the jacket it out, you hang it over your arm, you know, you put your headphones around your thing and you just, you know, like everything you can get out of the bag, you get out. But that's actually a great idea with. So if you have your laptop in, like, a separate little slip sleeve that can also have some batteries and stuff in it. It looks small. It looks like a little personal thing. It's like, is it worth weighing that? Probably not. [01:40:42] Speaker C: Yeah, no, no, you're fine. [01:40:45] Speaker B: Apparently. Apparently, the. The big flag for them with non Jetstar Airlines is like, if you've got like a wheelie roller and. And an extra bag, it's those people where they're like, you're basically trying to travel with all of your luggage as carry on. [01:41:01] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:41:03] Speaker B: So, yeah, it's. It's interesting. [01:41:05] Speaker A: Just a point of clarification for our friend David Mascara, who's in the Bay Area of San Francisco. Is that your guy's main airline? So, yeah, Jetstar is owned by Qantas or it's a subsidiary of Qantas. Qantas is our main domestic and international carrier, at least they used to be. And we've also got Virgin, and Jetstar is kind of the budget. What's the equivalent in the state? [01:41:30] Speaker B: It's like flying with spirit, David. It's like. It's like when people say that they got a cheap Spirit Fair and then that was delayed or canceled and, you know. Exactly. Yeah, it's a lot of that kind of level. [01:41:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:41:46] Speaker B: Anyway. Oh, hang on. Well, let's just read this. Since I brought it up. Anyway. Jason's here. Hey, Jason. I saw a story of last year of two girls who wore about 10 layers of clothes and probably wouldn't have fitted in the seats. That's pretty. That's Pretty. No. [01:41:59] Speaker A: One of my kids came back from. From visiting family in Tassie and they only had carry on and because they'd gone op shopping and bought a bunch of stuff they had to like wear like multiple layers just to get through. Yeah. [01:42:12] Speaker B: We're pretty much wearing like that scene out of Friends where Joey puts on all of Chandler's clothes and does lunches. [01:42:22] Speaker A: Kind of just waddle into the airport. [01:42:24] Speaker C: Hopefully there was good air air con on the flight as well. [01:42:26] Speaker A: Yeah, you'd hope you get so hot. [01:42:28] Speaker B: Because I try and yeah, you try and go like wear. Yeah. Say your jacket or whatever but you end up in the airport in a T shirt and you've just got jackets and piled everywhere because you're trying to travel with all your clothes outside of your bags. Yeah. Oh dear. Okay, so that's the secret to traveling. Any other essential gear like non camera lens stuff? Any other essential stuff that you take on big projects? [01:42:53] Speaker C: Yep. So a one like it's kind of going back to bags a little bit. One that I found that's been super helpful for me is because when I am on like longer trips and everything like that and I'm hiking for long distances, it's. I don't want to take two backpacks like that. So what I've actually actually started doing is that you can start getting lids the hyphen backpacks that are just camera. Camera related. So they. So it's called like the. The hiking like the hiking brain which is just the top of the backpack. And you can actually this camera brands also back backpack manufacturers that are allowing you to replace it with like a camera top and this. So they have the insert everything but on top of the hiking backpack. So you can take all your stuff but it's just on top of the hiking back. So that's been a game changer for me because usually it's either trying to find an insert for the hiking backpack or wrapping it in like down jackets and all these sorts of things that are a little bit iffy. That's been a big one for me. [01:43:55] Speaker B: I'm trying to find it. I can't find it. [01:43:57] Speaker C: What. [01:43:58] Speaker B: So is there a brand that it. [01:43:59] Speaker C: Is or I think who is it at the moment I'm just trying to think who actually is doing it. [01:44:05] Speaker A: So is it like a separate bit that you kind of strap down to the top of your backpack? [01:44:09] Speaker C: So yeah. You just strap it to the. The top? Yeah. [01:44:16] Speaker B: Is that. [01:44:17] Speaker A: Yeah, because I know Rush faster, which is an Aussie brand. I think they just released a new. They've got two versions of their new everyday carry backpack and one of them is a pro version, and it's got, like, a separate pouch that you can attach to the. To the back of the bag. It's got, like, compression, and then you can use that as a. Like a snowboarder or a skateboard holder because it creates, like, a loop that everything can go through. [01:44:39] Speaker C: That's sick. Yeah, Osprey is doing it. [01:44:42] Speaker A: Sorry, Osprey. [01:44:44] Speaker C: And it's just an Osprey photo lid, so it pretty much just replaces the top. Top of the. The hiking bag and so that you can actually just put your camera, everything in there and just zip it up and that's cool. Yeah, let's check. [01:44:58] Speaker B: Let's. Let's look at this thing. [01:45:00] Speaker A: All right. Photo lid. Wow, that's cool. [01:45:02] Speaker C: So, yeah, I think it's the third foot. [01:45:04] Speaker B: Don't want to watch that. [01:45:07] Speaker C: Come on. Yes, it just straps to the top there. [01:45:10] Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome. Look at the size of that backpack. He could fit in that bag. [01:45:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's massive. [01:45:17] Speaker C: But I think they have a photo of the insert if you keep going down. [01:45:21] Speaker A: Yeah, there's one if it open. [01:45:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:45:24] Speaker B: Okay. So it just ends up. Which, obviously it's not ideal to have all of you, like, your heaviest weight, top heavy, but when you've got a bag, like, packed with, like, all your other stuff anyway, it's probably not going to make a massive difference. At least you can access the gear. [01:45:38] Speaker A: At least the downward force is supported by the straps. [01:45:42] Speaker C: Yeah. So it kind of evens out, which is nice. But, yeah, I definitely agree about top heavy. But, yeah, if you. If you're kind of balancing out your bag, you're pretty good, but just means that you're at least having some, like, one you're having good access to your gear with. Without carrying it on your front. But also, you know, like, you can just get it out and it's clever. [01:46:00] Speaker A: You can just turn it into a sling. [01:46:02] Speaker B: No, it's a bum bag. It's a fan. [01:46:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:46:06] Speaker A: I haven't heard that for a while. [01:46:08] Speaker B: Check it out. Look at it. That is stylish. [01:46:10] Speaker A: Hey, look at him. Hey, check out my. [01:46:14] Speaker B: That's a very clever idea. I assume it probably only works with Osprey packs, because packs don't have a standard top thing, do they? [01:46:22] Speaker C: No, they. So, like, you do have companies like Low Alpine and everything like that are similar to Osprey. I don't. I don't know about, like, translating across, though. I think they're strictly for Osprey but if you. You're generally taking photos and you've got an osprey hiking backpack anyway, then like, it's a really good idea. Yeah. It's definitely not for everyone because, you know, you might just literally have one body, like a small body, small lens. And you're like, well, why do I need that whole top section? It's a little bit of a waste, but you know, it's a nice little luxury. Yeah. [01:46:58] Speaker A: And also it's fair to say you can never have too many camera bags. [01:47:02] Speaker C: No. [01:47:02] Speaker A: So it's good to have options. [01:47:04] Speaker C: Yeah. Are you really photography if you're not collecting? [01:47:07] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [01:47:08] Speaker B: You should see my. Oh my gosh. I need to get rid of some of this stuff. [01:47:11] Speaker C: It's just a wall. [01:47:13] Speaker B: It is a wall. And I've sold bags of luck straps I've sold. That's exactly what it is. And. And other stuff. I've sold multiple F stop bags and I've still got two. And I don't use either of them. I don't have any inserts anymore. Jim's got my main insert. I know where the other one went. So I've just got two empty, like sad skins of S stop bags just sitting on the shelf. I'm like, I should sell these. One of them hiking one too. It is tragic. There's so much stuff just sitting there doing nothing maybe. [01:47:43] Speaker C: They're so sad without the inserts. [01:47:45] Speaker B: I know. Although they're kind of as a. Just a general backpack. It was not too bad. I think Elena traveled with one of my FC stop like my 38 liter one as just a travel like carry on bag. And the rear access, if you like organize your clothes in there, it's actually kind of nice to just. Yeah. Use as a bag. [01:48:02] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:48:04] Speaker B: Anyway, what is that. [01:48:05] Speaker A: What is that pursuit. Sorry, what is that pursuit for the perfect camera bag? A camera bag company is just messing with us. They know what we want, but they just. They leave one little thing out of each one. So, you know, I think so. [01:48:16] Speaker C: I think so. [01:48:17] Speaker B: No, the issue is. I think here are the issues. One, it's really, really hard to make a bag. Two, you can't please everybody. Everyone wants something slightly different. And three, the compromise on cost, you know, longevity of the bag and all that sort of stuff. And just. And then I think this one is. I'm going to dig it into the camera bag companies a little bit. As they get better and better at being a camera bag company, the people that design the bags possibly get further and further away from Being a traveling full time photographer and I know there are some. The bag companies do take a lot of feedback on and stuff like that but ultimately it always ends up rests in the hands of the designer and the designer is not Aiden. You know, like. And it's like start to lose in translation. They've got to try and figure out how to make it and make it at an affordable price that they can make sure it'll last for 10 years and all that sort of stuff. And you start to lose those like, well, we really wanted it to do this. So yeah, it's a hard one because. [01:49:24] Speaker C: Like, yeah, I know like when I've spoken to people say for instance, like at camera like brands they'll be like, oh like I'd really love if like say for instance, like hey, this would be really nice. And they're like, yeah, but everyone else loves that. That's, we're not going to change that. And I'm like, like, fair enough, I can't be that exception. [01:49:45] Speaker B: But it's funny though because they often say that and you're like, do they though? Or is that just, you know, like, do they. It's yeah. Anyway, I don't envy them. I actually, honestly, I wanted to start a camera bag brand. That's how Lucky Stripes came into existence. But there was just no way we could make it in Australia. And that's kind of what I wanted to do around originally. So I still have goals to maybe one day make camera brags. But I know that it's not easy. [01:50:11] Speaker C: That it looks so tough. Yeah, yeah. Because you're covering so many basis as well. Like it's not like you're just going, just writing a satchel or anything. Like it's like, no, like general generally I say this but generally there'll be better, better bags for different genres of photography as well. [01:50:28] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:50:29] Speaker C: You're never going to have like everyone from every genre going, oh, that's amazing. Yeah, yeah. [01:50:34] Speaker A: The company, the companies that I look towards typically didn't start as bag manufacturers. So like for example I mentioned Russ Rush Faster earlier. You know, they were just a review site. They did laptop sleeves and a couple of other little travel accessories but they mostly did travel gear videos about bags and slings and you know, EDC carry stuff. And now they're releasing their own products and often those brands who have spent, you know, a decade first reviewing products and testing them and taking them out and all that, they're the ones that end up producing some of the best gear because they've had so much Experience so much hands on with so many different brands that they can see all the tips and tricks that everyone's using. And then eventually they put out their own product and it's, you know, it's a winner. [01:51:21] Speaker B: I'll get back to Jason's question in a second. First, I'll just nev's comment. Comment here. Love my. Is it compagnon Companion. German made. Made from. [01:51:30] Speaker A: You got to say it in a German accent. Justin, do it again. German. [01:51:35] Speaker C: I'm not doing that. [01:51:38] Speaker B: German made from materials. I thought about it. I was gonna. No, no, no. This is a live, live Internet German made, waterproof too properly. I'll have to check those out. I think I've heard that name before. [01:51:52] Speaker A: I reviewed a companion. I called it Companion, but that's just a speech impediment for shock kit years ago. And it was like an 8 or 900 bag. Like it was crazy expensive, beautiful. But yeah, you pay for it. [01:52:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:52:09] Speaker B: The question we had before was, oh yeah, this one here, Jason says solo, solid state weatherproof backup drive. Like, okay, tell me this. When you first got into, you know, you're like, I'm gonna be an adventure photographer. Jimmy Chin's fucking cool as. Did you want to get a lacy rugged with those orange rugged drives? I wanted one for so long. Did you ever, did you ever get one of those? I got one eventually, but it's not. [01:52:37] Speaker C: So I, I like when, when I was studying and like I had that inspiration up. Like it was definitely like all the pros are using this. Like this is the thing. But I think like when I was, I was just kind of a tape student, you know, I had no money. Like you even. You're trying to buy enough gear, like and you've got like a prime lens and you know, a body and that's it, you know, let alone for storage. Yeah. Yeah. I think to be honest, like a. [01:53:04] Speaker B: $99 drive just with orange tape wrapped around it or. [01:53:07] Speaker C: Yeah. Makes you. But it was funny because I actually. What was it? It would have been. After my first year I had some success in terms of like with some photos and everything like that. And I actually, I think I actually won a competition with Australian photographic and they sent me four of them. [01:53:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:53:26] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [01:53:27] Speaker C: And I was like, I don't know. This is the best prize ever. [01:53:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm a minus come down in price now, but gosh, it used to be so expensive. [01:53:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:53:37] Speaker A: You know that, that and a Photoshop subscription back in the day. [01:53:42] Speaker B: The problem was, is every, every, every amazing photographer that was going on an amazing adventure. Would post a flat lay of, of their laptop and their passport and their lacy rugged drive. And you were like, well, this is the only way that I can possibly make it into this world. Yeah, yeah, it was. [01:54:01] Speaker C: Well I, I like I loved them. I was just, you know, I was like I finally got enough storage. I've got, you know, a great system. And then I think to be honest, maybe I'm the only person. I hope, I hope I am. But yeah, then they literally just started corrupting one by one and no, I was a little bit off. Lazy. Oh no. [01:54:22] Speaker B: Okay, so I've got to use four of those. [01:54:24] Speaker A: I took the honors and two of them have died. [01:54:27] Speaker B: Greg. [01:54:28] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I mean I've had them for a very long time. [01:54:31] Speaker C: Yeah, it's such a bummer. So yeah, I would have probably been using them still to this day. Yeah. [01:54:39] Speaker B: I hope this is okay. [01:54:41] Speaker C: Well I mean I've still got. [01:54:43] Speaker A: With SSDs. Like I've got these little. [01:54:46] Speaker B: They had, they had some problems though early on. [01:54:49] Speaker A: Yeah, they did. [01:54:50] Speaker B: This is massive recall but this is the better one. Yeah they, they sorted it out. But those first ones, geez, there was some hate on the Internet after they all corrupted. Yeah that went bad. So. All right, so what are you using now like if you, if you travel. Yeah. Do you take drives with you or do you just send them up to the clouds straight when you're in the middle of nowhere? [01:55:11] Speaker A: I mean you're so close to them unfortunately. [01:55:13] Speaker B: Exactly. [01:55:14] Speaker C: Really good reception as well. But no. So I've kind of figured out like. And I guess that's the, the luxury know or with photography as well like and videography especially because nothing fine tunes things like videography like to be honest because you need to sort out really quickly with your backup systems because it's so much. But I. Yeah you can always just. Or you to kind of keep evolving things. So now like when I'm. When I'm at home like where I'm now I'll use just a twin base like RAID system which is really like really, really nice. That's both like in terms of like I'll have that physically here but then I'll also have it like via cloud based but when I'm on the road obviously I can't take that with me so what I'll do is I'll usually be running like when I'm at a remote project we're running like backup cards as well. Like backup SD cards as well. If I don't have my laptop there, so at least you've got those backups there on the spot. And then I'll run twin SSDs as well because usually you're working quite quickly as well and you can offload, so at least you're getting a backup as well. I do have a cloud based system, but generally, generally I don't use that as much because usually I'll be from a project filing and then I'll be trying to upload. You're in an airport or something where there's no, not really the greatest WI fi or these sorts of things. Just nice nightmare to be honest, with these. So yeah, usually I'll be running 20 SSDs, that's more than enough. And then I'll be just offloading when I get home. I wish I could, I wish I could just do like cloud based as well. But it's also a nice little luxury to have it still in ssds with me because after a project someone will be like, hey, we've got a message from, I don't know, an output or a client or something. Do you have that one photo from this angle? And I'll be like, yeah, I'll look through, I'll grab it. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah, it seems to work so far for me. [01:57:15] Speaker B: Yeah. David Mascara has a quick question. Are we talking hundreds of exposures per day or more? Yeah. Like what? Like an average day of shooting while out on a project. How, like, yeah, how much, how much shooting do you actually do and how many shots do you end up having to go through? [01:57:33] Speaker C: So I've, I've changed this a lot like with my approach because yeah, you can kind of go trigger happy with these sorts of things. But like when you're, you're coming back from a 10 day project, you don't want to be going, oh, I've got, you know, thousands upon thousands of images. You want to be getting to it. So like if I'm generally like, the longer the project, it kind of doesn't make sense. The longer the project, the less photos I'm actually shooting because I'll really measure it out. So like say for instance, if I'm going on a shoot, I've had 10 day ones where I've shot like a thousand images, like, and that's it. [01:58:03] Speaker B: Okay. [01:58:05] Speaker C: But I've also had things where, say for instance, I'm shooting like a world record in a day. I'm trigger happy. You might shoot 6,000 images in a day and that's okay. But yeah. If it was working my traditional way, I would probably only be firing 500 to a thousand frames across a project, and that's more than enough for me. Yeah, but because generally when they're on the line, you can kind of compose things. Like, unless it's a really particular moment where you're firing off, so you can actually. Wait, wait, wait. It's not like someone's doing it. [01:58:38] Speaker A: Well, they're not going anywhere, are they? [01:58:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:58:40] Speaker A: Not in a hurry, anyway. [01:58:42] Speaker C: Slowly. Yeah, yeah, slightly. [01:58:45] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. He's getting away. All right, so. So I'm mindful we're coming up on two hours. I've got, like, a million things written down that I haven't got to. [01:58:54] Speaker C: You got three other pages? [01:58:56] Speaker B: Pretty much. No, not really. It's all on one page, but it's like. [01:59:00] Speaker A: It's a big book. [01:59:01] Speaker B: It's a big book. [01:59:03] Speaker C: Is that like an A3 page? Yeah, yeah. [01:59:06] Speaker B: I like to be able to scribble. [01:59:09] Speaker C: Nice. [01:59:10] Speaker B: What I'm thinking, what do I want to ask about? I want to look at some of your photos quickly and just have you tell us, like, anything that pops into your head. [01:59:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:59:19] Speaker B: But maybe before we do that, I wanted. We probably don't have enough time to talk about in detail, but I had. I wanted to talk about video because it sounds like you're doing more and more video work. Clients, obviously, whoever's paying for the shoot probably is looking for video. And that's a good way for you to be like, look, I can do this as well. So it's worth you paying for flying me to the other side of the planet. [01:59:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:59:44] Speaker B: How did you learn video? When did that happen? Was it because people were saying, hey, can you make a little video at the same time? [01:59:52] Speaker C: Yeah. First of all, like, with. With kind of the demands, I think that's a really important one, because at the moment, like, whether it's just on a brand or whether it's for social media or whatever, like, that more and more, there's an expectation for, hey, can you shoot both? Like, it's just. You want to be like, I get it from the other side. Because they want to be minimizing who's actually contracted and maximizing output. So, like, say, for instance, like, in two days, I head to China, and they're like, hey, can you. Can you shoot a documentary as well as stills on a project? Which is a lot to ask, but it's also, like, an expectation as well. Thankfully, not for every shoot, because I think I'd. I'd have serious bags under My eyes and I'd be like, I don't know, like. But how I got into it, actually another one where I kind of fell into it in a way because I. So starting in press, there was an expectation, like, you need to start implementing this because even if it's just 30 seconds, you can have that. And I was kind of the end of. End of that with press, where I didn't thankfully have to implement it too much. Like, I didn't. I started shooting it for jobs, but it wasn't like. It was just like a little grab kind of thing. Like. And so I didn't go into it too far, but I actually kind of fell into it in a way where once Covid hit, I kind of. I couldn't travel, I couldn't do any of this, like, my main sources of income. And I actually got asked by, like, the Australian Olympic team to just shoot for them video. And I actually said to them openly, anonymously, you know, anyone else would be like, oh, yeah, I'll do that. Yeah, you know, But I was like, guys, my video experience is like, mainly shooting with a GoPro. It's not really, you know, that high. You know, like getting verging onto broadcast quality, you know, documentary. That's not my. And they're like, you'll be fine, you'll be fine. I was like, okay. And yeah, thankfully for the person, like, who's a really good friend of mine is another photographer who recommended me for that job because, yeah, I don't know whether I'd actually have applied for it. And I kind of got thrown in the deep end with it, where when you're working with gold medalists, whether it's like, I was mainly in paddle sports, so whether it's your rowing teams, your sprint, your slalom, like these sorts of people, you're working with gold medalists that they're used to working with the best. So you need to deliver. There's no. Here's kind of really poor quality in shot video through the app. It doesn't. It's not that. So I had to learn really quickly. And it would probably. It would have taken me, I'd say two years to feel like it wasn't imposter syndrome, like, per se, but to be really confident in my ability. I was producing edits and everything like that for events and I thought they were good, but I wasn't. I didn't know if they thought they were good. Yeah, that. And they, you know, they come back with feedback and they'd be, oh, we love this. This is the best video ever or whatever. And I'd be like, is it okay? I didn't really have that experience to know, but I just again tried to upskill myself so quickly that I'd be, I'd be on top of it if they did ask. And that kind of got me into a really nice position where I was pushing myself in so far out of my comfort zone. Zone that you kind of in a new territory for yourself where you get things that you probably wouldn't have expected. And I found myself in the position where I was working with the Olympic team. So I was like, well I can actually do more with this as well. So I decided to challenge myself and self funded a documentary. So I was. And as you do, you're in, you're in Covid as well. So what else do you have to do? Yeah, you know, back to your five kilometer radius. But I actually threw myself in the deep end. Yeah, and I actually threw myself in the deep end and there was no expectation. I just, I was in a position where I had a really good relationship with the athletes and everything like that. And I thought, oh, I'm getting better at skill level wise that I can actually put this forward. There's no expectation about outcome but it will be a really good process for develop development for myself. But also like hopefully I'm putting out something that just no one's ever seen. So I actually, I proposed the idea to gold medalist Jess Fox, who's actually, yeah, she's Penrith local, which is about like half an hour from where I am at the moment. And I had like a really nice relationship with her growing up. Because when you're, when you're going through tafe, you want to shoot anything and everything sport related. And in Penrith, unless you're shooting rugby league, there's not a massive amount of sport. Sport like you've got cricket now and rugby union league, you know, all these sorts of things. But there's not a lot of sport around Penrose. So it was you. Once you've exhausted rowing, it's like slalom. Okay, Rugby union, what else? Like, and so fortunately enough I had met her through that and so I pitched the project to her and it was meant to be this short little thing and it worked out to be about a year long documentary on her preparation before she won gold in Tokyo. So it was actually this amazing thing where no one had actually documented that experience from her because yeah, generally you see from the commercial point of view or race wins, it's just a celebration and a really Nice interview. She's so genuine and down to earth. But you. You also wonder. I have a really. A big appreciation from. With that, with her. But also now when I'm working with this amazing highliners and extreme athletes about what actually goes in behind the scenes. And that's when you see someone win a gold, especially, like, well, how do they get there? I was really fortunate enough to get myself in a position where I had the trust of an athlete so I could shoot this documentary. But I could also upskill myself throughout the process. And, you know, like, not everything goes well. Like, you can't just shoot everything, you know, cinematically and, you know, when there's so many variables. But it was one of the best experiences that I had as well, because I learned so much from that that now I can kind of get on to commercial projects and, you know, if someone does ask for video, I know exactly how to nail that as well. [02:06:06] Speaker B: All right, I have a question. Yeah. That is. That is amazing. And it just shows that that is a common theme amongst your story is. Is putting yourself into a situation where. All right, it's to learn. This is something new, but I'm going to do it. And then, you know, whether it's getting into the sport of highlining or learning video, you just go for it. Which I love. [02:06:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:06:28] Speaker B: What I want to know if anything can come to the top of your mind for those photographers that see video as kind of this mysterious thing, you know, like video sounds. It's. I've had to learn it as well. It sounds like you said, with highlining and climbing, where it's like, you only know what you know. And then you. Then you keep unlocking these extra levels of shit that you didn't know existed that you now don't know that you need to learn. You know, like, it doesn't matter how much video you learn. All of a sudden you're like, you know, you're watching some editing tutorial, and they're like, oh, yeah. So you just pull up your scopes and check your scopes and see. And I'm like, scopes? What the. What are scopes? This is insane. It looks like some sort of crazy graphic thing. I don't even know what they mean. Anyway, so someone early on when I was having all this trouble trying to learn video and take the leap, I was watching too many YouTube videos and not filming anything to actually learn. A guy called Jared Sang, who's a photographer from Perth, he. He gave me some advice and said, man, it's just they're just pictures that move. Like, he's like, don't overthink it. Like, just, just, just pretend it's a photo and. And then hit the record button. Stop worrying about it. Because I was asking him about stabilizers and all this stuff, and he was like, on tour shooting the band Passenger, making videos for him. I'm like, what stabilizer do you use? He's like, stabilizer. I just hold the camera like this. He's like, it's just a photo that moves. I was like, okay, do you have any advice for photographers that want to learn video from when you sort of thought that it was maybe something more complex than it is or. Or not sure where to start? Do you have any advice? [02:08:06] Speaker C: So I think, like, I don't. I think with video it's always going to be something that's complex. Like, you can't completely downplay it. Like, it's, it's always going to have a lot of kind of strings or legs to it. Like, that's just the nature of it. But you can also do things to simplify it yourself. And I think, I think the way I look at it is that. And you know, like, maybe, maybe there's people who disagree with this, but it helps me is that it's a lot easier as a photographer to do video than video as a photographer. That's the thing. So if you're, if you're like. And hey, I'm sure people would disagree that. And that's fine. But for me, I was like, if I'm simplifying a whole event in one photo, or if I'm shooting a photo essay, I'm actually deconstructing it so that now I can actually Continuation. Continue that and actually evolve it and grow it. And it's actually just an extension of it. Whereas, say, for instance, doing a video of a whole event. Okay, take a photo of this. You're like, what of. Yeah, how do I simplify that? I think you have a. When you learn to deconstruct everything, you actually know how to build it up. And that really helps me with video because I wasn't like, thankfully I had a good eye like when I was. When I was quite. So that I could pick up these things and learn the technical elements of it. So when I kind of picked that up with video, I was like, okay, this is what it should look like. Oh, maybe I just need to hold this frame longer to extend this and oh, this is how this transition look. That would be really complimentary. So, like, it does. Does help you a Long way. But I think, you know, if people are just starting out, the easiest way is probably the hardest way. But just shoot. Like. Yes, you can look at endless tutorials. Like, it's just. It's a bit overwhelming on anything and everything. Like, even if it's just working at like, frame rate, what frame rate do I need to shoot? But. But I think that the best thing is shooting and then like slowly building it. Like, if you're wanting to do something that's primarily just footage based, it's nothing to do with audio or anything like that. Okay. Just shoot. Maybe if you need to stabilize, get it. Like use your tripod. Okay. You be moving. Maybe a gimbal if you're starting to implement audio. Okay. Maybe think about a mic. Is it going to be on person? Does it need to be like. Or is it just off? Does it need to be just a shotgun? Like these sorts of things? But you can slowly just build it because rarely do you need just like straight off the bat. You need everything. Like most shoots don't need necessarily everything. Like, it would be a pretty fantastic one if you needed everything. So. [02:10:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yep, yep. [02:10:46] Speaker B: Okay. Great advice, Great advice. [02:10:48] Speaker A: Absolutely. [02:10:51] Speaker B: All right, we're running out of time. I really want to look at some photos. I'm going to have to ditch all my other questions. We'll have to. [02:10:56] Speaker C: Sorry, guys, I got talking. [02:10:57] Speaker B: No, no, no. [02:10:58] Speaker A: That'd be. [02:10:58] Speaker B: Sorry. [02:10:58] Speaker A: No, perfect. This is what we do. [02:11:02] Speaker B: So I'm thinking I'm just going to pull up some images. Maybe I'm just going to your website and just pull up some of the iconic ones. [02:11:12] Speaker C: And. [02:11:13] Speaker A: You mean all of them. [02:11:14] Speaker B: Tell us. Yeah, that's what I mean. Just some of all of the amazing ones. You can just tell us anything that pops into your mind. This is a Nat Geo photo. Was this on a cover of. [02:11:26] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So this was my first ever Nat Geophoto. And thankfully, like, it was a cover. But I don't know. Like, first of all, how long do I. How long do I have? Because I can tell you stories behind them as well that I might go over over time. [02:11:40] Speaker A: I pro. [02:11:40] Speaker B: I probably have to be out of here in like 20 minutes. So you can, you can, you can go. Well, we can just do. I mean, there's. There's like two or three, like this one and two or three others that I really want to have a look at. We don't have to go through all of them, but I really want to look at like. Yeah, the fireworks one. They're crazy. One from Portugal with The wave. Like so there's a couple that I really wanted to talk about. [02:12:02] Speaker C: I'll be sure, I'll be sure you. [02:12:03] Speaker B: Can go deep if you want. [02:12:05] Speaker C: Okay. Because yeah, this, this was thankfully my first. Yeah, my first Nat Geo photo and it kind of, it was another one about. I know you've mentioned it here but like earlier that it's about putting yourself in that position and then you know like embracing that. And this was actually one where I was really, really lucky to get on this project. So this was my first in terms of like world record project. I hadn't done anything on this scale. Like I'd done some amazing photos and been on amazing projects but a full away trip with the team and sponsors and everything like that. So three days, three days. I believe before this trip the photographer actually pulled out of this, this event and I got asked to join in and it was like hey, if you can get there. So I self funded myself to get there and I know there's a lot of people that be like oh if you're sponsored then they should just pay. But at the last moment when you're trying to prove yourself, you get yourself there. You don't even think twice about it. [02:13:09] Speaker B: I love that. Oh, okay. So set the scene. How far into your highlining photography career was this? How far after that first trip to France was this trip? How many years? [02:13:22] Speaker C: So this, this year would have been five, five weeks from when I landed in France. [02:13:30] Speaker B: Oh my God. As in this was five weeks into your highlining photography career basically pretty much like. [02:13:39] Speaker C: Well it would have been like five. It probably would have been three, three and a half months since I'd like known about high learning and shot it. But then this was five weeks from when I'd actually booked that book. Book, that one way trip to France. And this is your five weeks in. [02:13:57] Speaker A: Can I just ask, you know, you're perched somewhere obviously somewhere probably precarious taking this shot only months after starting this genre. Did that just blow your mind? That look where I am now. [02:14:11] Speaker C: You're probably going to laugh at this because I like, I learned a really valuable lesson from this one because I was so fixed and like just dog and determined and probably just stubborn that I wanted to prove myself on this project that I didn't one I didn't know about, that this was like the shot. But I also didn't necessarily, like it sounds really bad and kind of jaded that I didn't actually enjoy it in terms of that this moment. And I should have. And that's A, like a really valuable lesson that I learned afterwards. But I was so in the mindset. I need to prove myself. This is one of the world's best. I need to do a good job. So I got this shot. Next one, I was just running around like a headless chalk trying to nail these things and prove myself. I was working until 11pm at like a cafe that like nearby that I think had. I think it was two megabytes. Two megabytes. Like, I think it was everything. [02:15:06] Speaker B: Was it dial up? Dreadfully dial up Internet. [02:15:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Kind of files. Yeah. Trying to file to clients and like of this project. And. Yeah. And I was actually after this, it was probably like maybe in the last two, three days of this project, this athlete, Samuel Valerie from Switzerland pulled me aside and is like, man, what are you doing? And I was like, what do you mean? Like, I'm shooting this project. I'm doing my best. I. I'm trying to capture these amazing images. And he's like, mate, you're on one of the most spectacular projects that has like, that they've rigged in the world and you're not enjoying it. You're not actually soaking up where you are. People come from all around the world to be in this location in Greece and you're just, all you're doing is just this. Enjoy it, step back, clients can wait. Enjoy it. And I was like, whoa. Like, I had no idea because it wasn't like a client was telling me this, it was the athlete telling me to actually step back and just enjoy it. And it's something that I, you know, I take with me today because I'm like, you're in these beautiful locations with amazing athletes. These are places that people might wait their life to go to, to visit that beach down there for an hour and then they go back on a ferry and back to, back to the other side of the world. And you're actually here. You're not, you're actually enjoying it. You're not appreciating for what it is. So I didn't realize, I didn't realize it was special until probably, probably the next week afterwards when it started to get a bit of traction. And then fast forward a couple of months later, it was. Yeah. On the front carpet and that chair. [02:16:41] Speaker A: Wow, that's amazing. [02:16:43] Speaker B: What great advice from that athlete too, just to be, be able to stop and breathe and, and, and like stop stressing quite as much. He's like, hey, it's all going well. Just, just, it's, it's fine, you know? [02:16:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:16:57] Speaker B: Because it is easy to stress out, especially when you're pushing yourself or if you've got. Yeah. Big client, a big job, something that maybe is slightly out of your comfort zone. And I think even when we were talking to. To Jeff Cable last week, he said he still gets nervous before every shoot. Not nervous. Like, I don't know if this will work, but just that, you know, you're like, you want to perform, you want it. You don't want to muck it up. Yeah. And he's shot eight Olympic Games, and he's. He still gets, you know, slightly kind of nervous about how the shoot's going to go. So I think there's. There's good elements to that to make sure you perform, but obviously, if it's too much, you're not. Yeah. You're not in the moment. So that's what a legend giving you that. That advice on the spot list. [02:17:38] Speaker C: I know, right? [02:17:39] Speaker B: Instead of just letting it go and being like, oh, that guy was a. [02:17:42] Speaker C: Bit stressed out, you know, won't shoot with him again. I think it's. Yeah. And like, I've heard athletes talk about it in the past as well, and also, like, also other adventure photographers that it's like, if you're. If you're not nervous or anything like that, then there's something probably wrong. Like, nerves are actually good. They're good. [02:18:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:18:02] Speaker C: You want to, like, see it. Yeah. [02:18:04] Speaker A: It's your brain that's telling you this is something you need to be cautious about. You need to care about this. [02:18:09] Speaker B: This is important. And I used to say this before, like, every. Every wedding that I used to shoot, even, like, eight years into it, still got nervous until the day got flowing. Was still nervous about, you know, how it would all go, what the weather was going to do and all that kind of stuff. And not nervous. Yeah. Again, like, I don't know how to do this, but just like, yeah, you want to make sure it works. And honestly, I still get nervous before every podcast interview we do. [02:18:37] Speaker A: Yeah, same. [02:18:38] Speaker B: I hope the guest, you know, has a good time, the listeners. [02:18:41] Speaker C: Every. [02:18:42] Speaker B: Every single one. Absolutely. [02:18:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:18:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Until it gets started, and then I can relax a little bit. But, yeah, that's sort of the. The morning I wake up, I go to the gym and come home and have a coffee and all that sort of stuff. And that whole time I'm thinking about how it's gonna start and trying to get it right in my head before we go live. So, yeah, I think you're spot on. Like, there's a healthy amount of Nerves that show that you care and you're trying to do a good job. [02:19:05] Speaker C: Yeah. But also I think, just to add to it. Sorry. That when I'm, when I'm nervous between like before a shoot or anything like that, I know that I'm switched on. I know that I'm ready. And that's, that's something where I'm like, if I'm not nervous, I'm probably a little bit worried that, like, okay, are you really caring as much as you should? But when I'm either nervous, excited, all these sorts of things, I'm like, no, I'm switched on. I'm ready. Like, this is good. This is what you want. You want to be feeling nothing worse than feeling normal out of it. Yeah. [02:19:39] Speaker B: Before we move on to a couple other photos, David Mascara from San Francisco wants to know, are these cables hung by a helicopter? That's a good question. How do they rig these high lines up, especially over these crazy distances? Distances. [02:19:53] Speaker C: I was waiting for this question. It's usually like, so how do you get the line across? But it's a really, really good question because with the like, it does depend on the location about logistics and accessibility. Like, if you have a short 100 meter, 200 meter line, you can generally walk the line around to the other side. Like if you've got access and everything like that. But what you can do is say, for instance, with this location here, you can use a drone. I have seen helicopters used, but not for these sort of ones where you generate a drone with either like fishing line or like 2,3 mil of paracord. You bring it to the other side and then you pull across that line which is attached to the webbing, and then that brings the line. But we've had projects where the lines are so big and technically so heavy that you'll have to implement boats and everything like that to actually bring these sorts of things across. Because you might be like in the fjords of Norway and drones just not going to cut it. So. [02:20:56] Speaker A: Yep. [02:20:58] Speaker B: Crazy. [02:20:59] Speaker A: Okay, that's amazing. [02:21:01] Speaker B: Let's have a look at a couple of others. Stop me if I go, oh, yeah, I wanted to check. So what's the deal with this? This is nuts. How long before they got knocked off that line by a giant wave? [02:21:14] Speaker C: So he probably. It's kind of funny with this one because I either get two reactions. It's either like, oh my God, like he would never fall, like, kind of thing. They're that good. Which is so true. But with this one, because of the waves, I think he took three steps and he just disappeared in the wave. And what you get with this is that it would just go white and then the athlete would be on the other side of the line from the power of it. [02:21:38] Speaker A: Whoa, really? [02:21:40] Speaker C: And generally like this one's an exception, but generally I was right near the anchor as well. So you'd have this thing where the wave would hit. Generally this pylon, you get this kind of spray and we should make amazing photos and everything like that. But then you, every now and then you get a wave goes over the pylon and you just have sex frame and then just duck and pivot because it's going to hit you. [02:22:04] Speaker B: Really? [02:22:06] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's going to hit you. But this one's, this one was so, so special for me because I, I heard about these guys down in Portugal. They're called the Western Riders. They'd literally rig the line where there's 25 to 30 meter waves in Nazare here if you watch this crazy surfing videos and you see this red lighthouse and then the waves behind, we're right under the lighthouse house, so. Oh wow. Yeah, we're right under it. But this one was so special for me because I heard about these guys and I was like, I need to get there. So I took a 24 hour night bus from. I think I might have been in Paris. I would have been in Paris because we did a, we got commissioned to do a line from the Eiffel Tower. And so I, I 24 hour night bus down to, down to Portugal and I actually slept outside the night, the lighthouse. Sorry. Just waiting for these guys in the morning. And I sent them a message as well. I was like, hey, I'm getting here. And they're like, if you can kind of, if you're here, we'll obviously rig the line and everything like that. And first day they're like, oh, we're sorry, Aiden. Like, unfortunately the waves are only 7 meters and coming from Sydney, 7 meters is huge still. And so I shot this week and I was like, like some good photos but I feel like there's more, there's more. And this, that was the week before Christmas and I was meant to fly, fly home to spend Christmas with my family. So I actually canceled my flight to stay back a week later to hope that we could get 35 to 30 meter waves where I actually luckily got this, this image here. But I just felt like there was more to this location than just spending that week there. I was like, just get that opportunity and I can. Yeah. If I can actually nail it, then, yeah, I think it's going to be something truly special. Because what people don't realize with this location is that, yeah, it looks like I'm the only person around and there's nothing. But because there's big wave surfers, there's like 50 to 80 photographers behind me doing their thing, photographing. So if I can nail this, then this is going to be the image. And thankfully, thankfully, like, it did get some recognition from that and, you know, thankfully, some, some. Some major awards and, you know, some big publications as well, like Natio and everything like that and Rebel as well. [02:24:33] Speaker B: It's an epic shot. And just the fact that it's at that time of day with that color in the sky, the silhouette like that, everything is just perfect. You nailed it. [02:24:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:24:43] Speaker B: So congratulations. That's it. Yeah. That's an absolute banger. All right. Oh, wow. That's nuts. [02:24:53] Speaker C: Yes. During a snowstorm. [02:24:55] Speaker B: A snowstorm. Wow, that's crazy. Okay, I gotta find this. Yeah, this one. This might. This might have to be our last one. Tell me about this. [02:25:06] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, this one. This one wasn't necessarily like plans or anything like that. It kind of just came to fruition. Like, it was more so just about adapting. So I. This was probably a couple of days before I was flying off to photograph like a project in Canada and I heard that there was a group of athletes, like, by a company called Slacktivity, which is just like sort of slackliners. And they were doing a show in Zurich. So there's this. I think it's every two years there's a festival there called Zurich Fest. And they get like 2 million people at this festival. It's, you know, it's pretty much like a big Easter show. Like, there's just everything you can think of, like, happening around Zurich, from like food stalls to performances. And anyway, they were, they were highlighting. And what happened here was that they had strict times when they were meant to be on the lines. Like, you've got your, your 130 to 200 performance. You know, it was very structured and they had to be off the line. I think it would have been like by like 6:30pm I think that was their last slot. And it's like you're going to be off the lines by this because there's going to be a fireworks show and that needs to be the spectacle. Even though in my opinion this would look cooler. But anyway, that's just a bias. And anyway, we're sitting. We're sitting at one of the anchors which is like on one of the rooftop buildings. So we had like a perfect view of the fireworks and everything. And these fireworks would generally last about 10 minutes to 15 minutes. And it was approaching like probably 10 minute mark and I was talking to one of the athletes and I was like, oh, this would be an amazing like. And he's like no, no, like no, no, no, I'm too tired. We're not meant to be on the line. And I was like man, like it's gonna be worth it. Like this is gonna, it's, it's impossible for it not to look epic. [02:26:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:26:58] Speaker C: And he's like I've just gotten off the line like before the show. Like nah, I'm too tired anyway. I thankfully convinced one of, one of the other athletes, this, this athlete called Sarah Rickson from the uk. I was like, hey, this would be amazing shot. And she's like, yeah. I was like, you sure? Like you don't know what you actually get into, but yeah. And so I was like just get down the line like probably around the middle. I didn't even have time to, I don't know on this mark or do this or whatever like that. Just get on the line probably maybe middle ish, you know. And all in the, all in the back of my mind is the idea that hey, the, the fireworks going to end at any minute now. So I am, I'm on the rooftop of the anchor going like to the left of this image probably another hundred meters and I'm having to run to this point through the crowds, 2 million people not wanting to move because it's the fireworks like they're not free flowing or anything. I'm just like pushing my way, going darting through fences and like ducking through restaurants and like just going shot. Looking at the fireworks through the side of my eye like come on quick, quick, quick. Whilst looking at the athlete going please, like this is going to be epic. And thankfully I got to this like kind of wharf and I'm like just, she's still walking and the line and I'm looking at my watch going oh my God. Like we've got like a minute, we've got no time whatsoever and I don't even know what she's going to do. I don't know if she's just going to stand there, I don't know if she's going to do anything. Like I have an instructor, we haven't agreed upon anything or anything like that. And she just turns into this position which is called exposure where usually you just Walk towards the, like across the line like that. But exposure is where you literally have the line going through your arches of your feet, but you're facing side on, so it's a lot harder. But it looks really cool. So she's gone into this position. What? She is in the line. And I've just. I don't even know if I've. I've looked. I've just been holding down the shutter, you know, firing off some frames. And it was literally, I think after this shot and once the fireworks had ended and everything like that, she is moving her way back to the anchor. And I was looking through the seat, serious. And yeah, I couldn't be helped. Like, I couldn't help but just be reduced to tears because I was like, this is. Yeah, this is what it's all about. This is how much you care. This is what you're putting into it. And it's kind of funny because I made my way back through the crowd, through the restaurants, everything back to the rooftop. And I was, I was showing her the images and she's just like, blown away. Everyone's like, holy moly, this is epic. And the athlete that said no is like pretty much along the lines of, I think I'm going to regret this for the rest of my life. [02:29:36] Speaker B: You had your chance. [02:29:38] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [02:29:40] Speaker B: Man, that is an epic story for an epic photo. I freaking love that. [02:29:45] Speaker C: It all paid off. It all paid off. [02:29:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it just goes to show you meticulously plan and prepare and pre visualize and like you say all of that, that doesn't always. [02:30:01] Speaker C: Is. [02:30:01] Speaker B: Isn't always required to get an amazing shot like this, but it's all of that practice that allows you to make a quick decision and pre visualize in your head while you're running through a crowd what you're going to shoot 100% and how it'll come out. You didn't need to draw it because you've done that so many times before that you sort of. You probably drew it in your head on your way to this spot, but. [02:30:22] Speaker C: Ready to go 100%. And I think, yeah, I think it, at the end of the day, it is like, it is an understanding. Like, yes, you do need experience and everything like that, but you need that understanding and that like to then also execute as well. Where like, yes, I've drawn out plenty of photos and, you know, they've worked out really well. But then you do have that understanding as well when to. How to get shots as well. Where like, this was just spontaneous and that understanding allowed me to get to that peer to understand what, what actually how to frame this, everything like that, to then nail it, even though it probably would have been 15 to 30 seconds that I had to shoot and actually nail that by the end of it. So. And I've had it where like, yes, you can understand what makes a good photo and everything like that, but it's also about understanding the athlete as well. Because, yeah, you know, if you don't understand them, there's going to be so many moments that you're actually going to miss out on. Like, say, for instance, I know we're going overtime, but I was on a project where I was in. I was in Iran and it was approaching probably like half an hour before sunset, and one of my friends had been kind of not acting differently or anything like that. You've been going through processes very differently all day. And anyone else would have been like, oh, he's feeling off. He's, I don't know, had food poisoning or I know he's just feeling under the weather or whatever it is, but I was like, no, no, no, this is different. This is really. He's. He's preparing in a different way. He's doing everything. And I was like, he's getting ready to freestyle her. He's getting ready to walk a line without his leash. This is his preparation for getting on the line without having a harness or being tethered. So he. I was the person there. I was the only person there that actually knew he was going to do it. So it would have been. If you go. It's the orange photo actually below. [02:32:10] Speaker B: I was going to say this one. [02:32:12] Speaker C: Yeah. So I was the only person there who knew that he was going to free solo. But he also didn't tell anyone. So that comes back to understanding as well, where it's like, you'll get a moment where somebody is actually going to do something or, yeah, he's going through the process of doing something and you understand what they're actually doing and how to execute it. So, like, a lot of part of, like a big part of my job is, yes, I can prepare myself and everything like that, but I also have to prepare for the athletes as well, because everyone's different. Everyone's style is different, everyone's preparation is different. And that also lends me to get unique shots like this because no one knew that he was going to walk the line. No one knew he was going to walk free solo without a tether and to be in the right spots at the right time. Time and nail those as well. Is kind of a dedication to that as well. [02:33:03] Speaker A: Yep. [02:33:04] Speaker B: It's amazing. Amazing intuition and connection with the athlete. Just to be clear for those listening or those looking at this photo, because it. Because it is a tighter shot. So he's walking without a leash. No. No attachment to the line whatsoever. And there would. This is. At a height. There would be consequence for a mistake. It's not. It's not like he's just 3 meters above some water or something like that. Like, this is a. This is a. A big deal. [02:33:31] Speaker C: I probably say at least 150 to 200 meters. [02:33:35] Speaker B: Okay. That's a huge deal. [02:33:36] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [02:33:39] Speaker B: It's. Yeah. So that's up there with people that. [02:33:41] Speaker A: Scale mountains without ropes, you know, which. [02:33:45] Speaker B: Is why it's got the same name. Free solo, I guess It's. It's the same. I call it the same thing, I guess. [02:33:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:33:49] Speaker B: As in. Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense. [02:33:52] Speaker C: Yeah. But it's really interesting with this sort of. As well that, you know, say, for instance, like with my friends here and, you know, thankfully, with all the athletes I work with and everything that do this, like free soloing, there's a mutual respect as well in the element as well. Like, say, for instance, if I wasn't comfortable photographing this or if he wasn't comfortable with me photographing, he wouldn't have been on the line first place. But a lot of, like, a lot of it is that mutual respect as well. Like, you earn your cape. But also there's this. Okay, we're at that stage now. We can have the conversation. We can talk about this. And it was, you know, at the end of the day, it's the ultimate compliment when, you know, in past times. Yes, he's asked me and everything like that. We've already agreed about me photographing that and him also asking me to photograph him doing it. That he's like, I back you to shoot this when I'm freestyling. Because we have that mutual respect as well. [02:34:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:34:49] Speaker C: Wow. Yeah. [02:34:51] Speaker A: It's crazy stuff. [02:34:53] Speaker B: It is crazy. And it's. Yeah, it's. It's so serious and there's, yeah, so much emotion there that it's obviously something that neither of you or anyone else involved takes it lightly. [02:35:07] Speaker C: No, no. [02:35:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow. Okay. What a way to finish an episode. [02:35:13] Speaker A: I know. [02:35:15] Speaker B: I know. We pro. We probably need to call it. It's. It's. We're 2 hours and 35 in. It's been epic. We'll have to do a part due One day, that's for sure. I don't think anything super serious. Just checking my notes. No, I think we've covered the other. [02:35:32] Speaker C: Half of the page. [02:35:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Is there anything else? Okay. Where should people keep an eye on your work? Where should they follow you? Is there anything important that's coming up that they should keep an eye out for? [02:35:46] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So obviously very grateful if anyone keeps up to date with what I'm doing. Best place is generally via Instagram or on Facebook. I would say Instagram is probably the best in terms of. I'm regularly posting behind the scenes. I'm actually posting like things like real time as well. Like generally if I. With my website, it gets updated when I get home, so it's a little bit on delay. So I would say there is the best thing because they can actually see like a little bit more behind the scenes. They can ask me questions. Obviously anything like that is really, really appreciated in terms of what's coming up. In two days, I fly to China for an event which will be really, really cool for the next three weeks. So that'll be exciting for me. I just got back about a week and a half ago. So then back on the plane, say hi to security and everyone at the airport. [02:36:43] Speaker B: Hey, guys. [02:36:44] Speaker C: But, yeah, but in terms of. I would say like in terms of exciting things coming that. But then also doing since I've signed on with Red Bull, doing some more photo shoots with them, like in really out there places. So I'd say that's probably the best thing to keep an eye on it. But also. Yeah, look forward to as well. [02:37:05] Speaker B: Awesome. You'll have to come back on once you've done a few more Red Bull shoots and tell us all about what working with them is like. That was another question we didn't get to. But we'll. Yeah, we'll save that. You come on and give us the rundown. It's the. It's the dream of any sports photographer to be a Red Bull photographer. Matt Boyle says these images are epic. Are they available to purchase online at all? [02:37:26] Speaker C: Oh, thank you so much. Yes, they are. I'll probably wait maybe about a month or so. I'm currently redoing my website so that. That does have the infrastructure to sell prints and actually get them out to people, especially when I'm on the other side of the world because it's a little bit hard at the moment. So, yeah, they are available. They will be through my website in the next month and a half. Very cool. [02:37:53] Speaker B: Very, very cool. Anything else or is that it? [02:37:57] Speaker A: No. [02:37:58] Speaker B: Are we done? [02:37:59] Speaker A: I think we're good. I think we might call it a day at that point. A little over two and a half hours in. We love it. This is what we, this is what we do, first and foremost. Aidan, thank you so much for joining us today. Your, Your story and your journey. Nothing short of inspirational. Understanding at such an early age that there was a direction that you could head in, and then pursuing that and making it work to suit you. You know, I think that's, that's really impressive. And you haven't gone down the, you know, the, the typical line of maybe doing weddings for a decade or, you know, doing corporate events. I wasn't having a dig. It's true. A lot of people. [02:38:43] Speaker C: It is true. [02:38:44] Speaker B: If you need to make a living, though. Yeah, you have to. You got to figure out how to do it. [02:38:47] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, whatever. [02:38:49] Speaker B: It is certainly a lot easier to make a living shooting weddings than it is to try and travel the world shooting a highlining. Like, it's a. Yeah, it's a really. [02:38:55] Speaker A: Niche sport and it's. And you know, you've, you've carved your own niche in that, in that community, which is incredible and impressive and amazing and your images and the relationships you have with those athletes, testament to the efforts that you've made to get to this point, point in your career. So congratulations and thank you so much for joining us. It's been humbling seeing such an inspirational story, so thank you. I've got goosebumps. [02:39:21] Speaker C: Again, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much for all the kind words and obviously allowing me to tell my story. And yeah, it's. I know it was a dream when I was a lot younger to being on podcasts and actually be able to be in a position to tell my story and hopefully inspire other people out there. But thank you so much for allowing me to be on this. But also, yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. [02:39:46] Speaker B: Anytime you want to pop on, hey, when you launch a new website or whatever, let us know, pop on for five minutes and show us through it or whatever. Or if you've ever got anything cool happening, an exhibition or a cover of a magazine or something, just, yeah, shoot us an email and pop on the podcast for, for a quick drop in. And also, when you're the next generation, Jimmy Chin, please don't forget about us. Come back on the podcast when you're world famous documentary director or whatever. Don't forget about little old us. [02:40:13] Speaker C: No, I definitely, I definitely were. But I also look forward to us trying to. To do a five minute podcast as well. I doubt it's gonna. [02:40:22] Speaker B: Probably not. Yeah, probably not two hours later. Yeah. All right, I'm gonna roll the music and check in on some of the live chat comments to finish off the show. Thanks, Aiden. And we'll catch you on the next one. [02:40:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:40:39] Speaker B: Oh, that's not right. [02:40:40] Speaker C: So much, guys. Thank you so much. [02:40:42] Speaker B: You're welcome. I just did the. I did the goat scream instead of music. All right. Oh, look, Elaine has used our new membership thing. Yelena's a YouTube member. Well, that works. Thanks. What else we got here? LTK photo says thanks, guys. Great podcast as always. Thanks, Aiden. Would love another podcast in the future. What else have we got? Rodney Nicholson says great show. Thanks, Rodney. Always awesome to see you. If you haven't heard Rodney's podcast episode, go back and find that one. It was awesome. Philip Johnson, good to see you. He says special thanks, Aiden. Blue Mountains photographers rule. Phillips from the Blue Mountains. David, Mr. Scara had to leave behind for baseball, but he said it was a good podcast and he's a Nick on shooter, so he loves seeing other Nikon shooters on here and everyone else that joined us. It was great to have you, Jason, Nev, all you legends. Oh, Neil. Yeah, we do. We can do guitar straps. Email me justinlucky straps.com and otherwise we'll catch you guys in the next one. [02:41:43] Speaker A: See you, everybody. Be safe. [02:41:45] Speaker C: Thank you so much, guys.