Annabel Osborne | From Avatar to Sydney NYE, Capturing Iconic Moments (EP180)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Well, good morning everybody. Welcome back to the Camera Life podcast. It is 7th May 2026 and being a Thursday morning, we are coming to you live, really from across the globe. We'll get to that in just a moment. We have gone global officially. We've gone global folks. Justin is now in the Bali office. I'm in the Victorian South Melbourne South Yarra office and Annabelle's Bondi beach office. There you go. Oh, that's nice. [00:00:53] Speaker A: It is. [00:00:55] Speaker B: But today we are joined. We have an interview for you today. And we are joined by Australian multi award winning, let's see, portrait, landscape, commercial project. As well as being a videographer and a filmmaker, a writer and director. Oh, and you also have a dog photography business thrown into the mix. We're joined by Annabelle Osborne, everybody. G' day Annabelle. Welcome to the show. [00:01:20] Speaker A: That's my nickname, Azza. You almost said it. Really. [00:01:24] Speaker B: Good morning, Justin. [00:01:25] Speaker A: Good morning, photographers. [00:01:27] Speaker C: Morning. [00:01:28] Speaker B: Good morning. Welcome to the aza. [00:01:31] Speaker A: Yeah, you can choose. Yeah, yeah. Or Abba because I couldn't say Annabelle when I was about two so I called myself abba. [00:01:40] Speaker B: Abba. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Your choice, gentlemen. [00:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah, Spoiled for choice. And of course Justin's here now. Justin, where are you? Where are you joining us from today from? [00:01:52] Speaker C: Yeah, somewhere in Bali. Caribougan it's called and I'll be here for [00:02:00] Speaker A: that. [00:02:00] Speaker B: Seems appropriate for us. He's going to Bali. [00:02:03] Speaker C: Yeah, it's actually very, it's very. It's cool location because it's not as touristy because we're probably 15 minutes from the beach. So it's, it's definitely more set in, in regular life but there's still a lot of tourists and things around. Good restaurants and things. But yeah, beautiful, beautiful spot. Rice patties. [00:02:24] Speaker A: Interesting. A bit inland because it's more rural and then you see more of the. The real life. [00:02:30] Speaker C: Yes. Yeah, we often go on little trips. Yeah. Just cruise around and see the villages and take photos and hang out. But I've been fascinated walking. I know. Oh, this is an you now I'm telling stories. I've been fascinated walking. [00:02:46] Speaker B: The. [00:02:46] Speaker C: All the shops are so dedicated to one thing. Like yesterday we went to six brass stores that have brass things for houses and stuff like that. So handles or little numbers that you screw on your door and all brass. And all the stores were dedicated just to brass stuff and all meticulously laid out so you could find anything you could possibly want of little brass ornaments. [00:03:15] Speaker A: Which is an excellent segue into photography businesses and how they have to be particular, [00:03:22] Speaker C: interesting. [00:03:24] Speaker A: Why are they Doing that as a business like Instagram, you see, just channels that are one thing, because apparently people can't cope because you've only got three seconds. The audience can only cope with one dedicated topic. Yeah. And so why are the brass people doing that? They probably know the Instagram secret. [00:03:44] Speaker C: That's right, the secret all along, because. Yeah. And there was. So we bought a thing, or I didn't buy it. The guy we're staying with bought a thing for his table. It's a piece of, like, old wood with blown glass melted over the wood. Yeah. And then you can put like a little terrarium in there or whatever. This store just sold those and had, I don't know, 2000 different ones to pick from, of different sizes. That was. The store just had those. I just, I love it. [00:04:16] Speaker B: And are they making those products or are they just selling them? [00:04:20] Speaker C: A lot of them are just selling them, but these guys, I think, were making them because there's no way they could ship all these things. We, I, I held my breath the entire time we're in the store because everything could fall and I was just like. It was terrifying. Anyway, let's get on. [00:04:38] Speaker B: You know, a store that just sells brass things. It reminds me, you, you might remember this, Annabel. Justin, you might be a bit too young. Copper art. [00:04:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:04:49] Speaker B: Copper. All they sold was copper. Really tacky copper products. [00:04:53] Speaker A: I think they still sell it in some areas. [00:04:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we're here to talk to Annabelle and find out everything we can in the time that we've been allocated just to hang out with you. So let's start off with a question and then we'll say good morning to some people after that. I was going to ask you a question about business, but I think I might start off with a question about living your dream. Just before we went live, you talked about setting goals or having a dream for who you want to become and what sort of, you know, what sort of work you want to do, whether it be creative or otherwise, how important that is, even though it does morph and change, you know, over the years and the decades. Talk to us about how that manifested for you. What was your initial dream and how has that pursuing that led you to where you are today? [00:05:51] Speaker A: Yeah, and I'd love to talk about this because if there are young people listening, I so wish someone had explained this to me deeply because I was kind of doing it wrong, in my view, for about 20 years. And I learned a really big lesson at the end of it through photography. But basically, and I Was really, really from the very beginning, let's say I loved filmmaking more than anything in the universe and that was my, that was my chosen honestly on a spiritual level. And I'm a bit, I love the spiritual stuff. I thought, I thought that was my destiny on earth to make feature films. I was so in love. Like I didn't want to be an actor, I wanted to make them. I was so in love with the craft that I was just, I was like an art addict. And I, I did everything to fulfill that dream because I thought, I just thought that it was my, my destiny no matter what. There were no buts. I didn't need any other plan Bs. And so I, so I'd sort of followed it. I went and studied law after school and I absolutely hated it. I became very depressed and then I went and studied. I didn't finish it. I went and studied filmmaking at uni and that's where I felt like you were home. You know that feeling if you, Greg, had a corporate job and now you're in the creative worlds, you have this feeling. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:32] Speaker A: And so for the next 20 years. Yeah, for the next 20 years I made short films, I worked in the industry, I worked in as an assistant director and then moved to casting and worked on really big films with a very well known casting director for years, just years and years and made, made my own films. Went to film school, went and studied directing, moved to la, went and studied screenwriting at ucla, moved to la and I think I made the short films. They did really well. But there's a transition that you have to make as a filmmaker to feature filmmaking or say now it would be a big TV series, right. And that was not like I had success with the short films, but the transition was not happening and it needs huge amount of dollars. So of course they're not giving it out left, right and center those opportunities, right. But. We have a very, our family line has serious depression in it. Major depressive disorder they call it. And so I guess this feeling of not being able to achieve where I thought I needed to go and I wasn't alone like so many creatives actors in that industry because only there's a fine, fine pinnacle that make it and can get paid regularly and pay the mortgage or the rent, right? Not it can't happen for everyone, but I think the mental health side combined with not being able to achieve what I thought I was born for sounds ridiculous, but that's how I felt. That was a very bad combo and like very bad. And at One point I realized I was very unhappy and I had all along studied photography from the very beginning but as a very much a joyous hobby, not as the end goal. And I didn't, and this was really important. I didn't have any pressure around photography like none. I didn't, it wasn't a career choice, it was just joy and a way to express my art easily without needing a team or money. And so I like, I studied at the, it's gone now but the ACP Australian Centre for Photography and, and, and did all the director of photography courses at film school afters here in Sydney. So that was really interesting and of course tied in. But yeah, at this point in my life I just went, I'm really unhappy. What do I love? I love animals more than anything and I love photography. I'll start a dog photography business to try and express myself creatively without feeling not good enough. And that, that's the key. Everyone, if there are any young people listening, just turn towards the thing that brings you joy and don't worry about the money or the achievement. That is the first thing that I wish I had understood about life. So I started the dog photography business but because my respect for filmmaking was so massive, like astronomically massive, I didn't have the huge pressure on the dog photography business. I was just like, well I'll just do this in a relaxed way. And that, that relaxed energy is what I have, I have learned is the secret to not only success but happiness. And I, I mean this is, this is completely out there for all those non spiritual scientific people. I, it's kind of the law of attraction which is in some people's minds ridiculous. I accept that. But if, if like attracts like. Right. I was in my filmmaking shoes constantly in lack and negativity because I felt not good enough. And when I shifted to photography I was like, well this is only a two week turnaround to creative output. And that was so refreshing after the filmmaking like slog of a 5 to 10 year plan to get something greenlit and, and so that was the point that led to where I am now and I'm so much happier. Oh my God. [00:12:18] Speaker B: Yep. Wow. You know, go on Jay. [00:12:23] Speaker C: Yeah. It's like you were swimming against the current for 10 years and then, and then you turned around, you got to swim with the current and it's like wow, this is. Yeah, yeah, moving forward. I'm making progress. [00:12:34] Speaker A: Yeah, your own current, like all of, all of everyone's own. What is your current and where does it feel easy go in that direction. Don't go in the hard direction. [00:12:45] Speaker B: Yeah, but, I mean, there is a lot to be said for life's lessons and how that creates who we are today. You know, we all are on a journey and. And some people never work out what their happy place is. You know, and I think it's. I think more often than not, it's. It's creatives that really find their happy place more than most other kind of genres of, you know, of work or pursuit. [00:13:13] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, your point about childhood before, I think that's hugely impactful. What you. How you learn to be happy early on, if at all, you know, is so significant in your. I mean, I had 30 years of therapy, everyone, so I, I really. I really investigated how to be. How to live a happier life. [00:13:38] Speaker B: Yep. [00:13:41] Speaker A: Here and there. Not like 30. [00:13:42] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, we get it. We get it. I'm coming up to 22 years, so, [00:13:48] Speaker A: you know, well done, Greg. Well done. So expensive. But you're keeping on going. [00:13:53] Speaker B: Oh, I know. Oh, I've lost my train of thought. Let's. Let's pause for a moment. Let's pause for a moment and let's. Let's say good morning to some people or good evening, depending on where you're from. [00:14:05] Speaker C: I will say good morning to the people because we've got. Philip Johnson was in first. Good morning from a very chilly blue mountains. Oh, yeah, Imagine Rodney Nicholson doubled down with good morning from icy Point Lonsdale. That's near Point Lonsdale. Yeah, Surf coast. [00:14:24] Speaker B: Yeah, Surf Coast Victoria. So sort of past Geelong. [00:14:28] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Cool. How exciting. I see. [00:14:31] Speaker C: I see Stuart Lyle. Morning. From down south. Robert Varner says, good morning, Australia. I'm in New Jersey. [00:14:40] Speaker A: That's so fun. [00:14:43] Speaker C: Yelena says, aza. How very Australian. [00:14:46] Speaker A: And I think it's so true. [00:14:48] Speaker C: It's perfect. Yeah. Good morning, Matt Boyle. Good morning, Pete Mellows. Morning, Paul. [00:14:55] Speaker A: They're all dudes. [00:14:58] Speaker C: Look, not always. They are. Y is not a dude. But today, if you're. If you're a woman and you're listening, please throw a comment in the chat. We'll try and balance things out a little bit to balance out the energy. And if you haven't. Yeah, tell us. Tell us where you're listening from. And feel free to ask a question of Annabelle, if you like, or Aza, and we'll roll. I have. I have a question. [00:15:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:26] Speaker C: Hey, Tristan. Good morning from Tokyo. Now we're talking. Tell me about. So tell me a little bit about dog photography because it's. It's a dream. It's a dream I've got that I've had to put on pause a little bit this year. [00:15:44] Speaker B: Pause. Sorry. [00:15:46] Speaker C: Oh, of course. I didn't even get that for a minute because we're. We're working on a lot of stuff with, With Lucky and the podcast at the moment. And I wanted to do the dog photography as well, and I had to be like, all right, slow down. I can. I can wait a minute and I'll. I'll get into the dog photography soon. But I love it so much. It's so much fun. Dogs are great to work with. Tell me about. [00:16:11] Speaker A: So I just realized. My God, I've just realized your business name was the name of my feature film. [00:16:18] Speaker C: Which business? [00:16:19] Speaker B: Really? [00:16:20] Speaker A: Yes, about. It's about a dog of. True story. Anyway, so that's weird. Anyway. [00:16:27] Speaker B: That's cool. [00:16:28] Speaker A: That's really weird. Well, I would say just start with the dogs around you. It doesn't have to be a business at the beginning. You might as well just start learning with your neighbor's dogs because it's a hellish road of learning. Not really, but it's not easy. You have to make. There's no point someone telling you the mistakes that you're going to make. You have to learn them on the ground. That's the only way they go into your memory. But I would say, once again, sorry if this is too spiritual, everyone, the energy that you take into that shoot and I only. I don't do studio anymore. I. I do outdoors because I'm really a nature animal lover in a natural world space. And I like photographing dogs in the natural world. But the energy that you take to that dog shoot will. Will set the tone for everything that happens. And you, Your job is to be absolutely relaxed and absolutely fun. And every time the dog or the parents get stressed, because they will. Because you're trying to. Well, I create more fine art portraiture rather than candidates. The parents get very stressed when their doggy doesn't do what they should be doing. Right. But we. We can't have that because the doggy has to be relaxed for the, for the, The. [00:18:11] Speaker B: The. [00:18:12] Speaker A: The energy of the shoot has to be very fun and joyous. And so every time they get stressed, you have to relax them. So the parents are more. You have to manage the parents more than the dog because they're taking their energy cues from mum and dad. The doggies. [00:18:34] Speaker B: It's. [00:18:34] Speaker C: It's interesting you say that because. Yeah, that I've only done a few shoots and that's definitely getting them to understand what I'm trying to do, that the parents I'm talking about, not the dog, has been almost trickier than working with the dog. And so make sure that they understand what I'm trying to do. And like you say, not, not changing the flow of, of like whether they call them over here too, because they're like, oh, sorry, he stood up and they try and call him back or whatever. [00:19:05] Speaker A: I'm like, oh, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:19:07] Speaker C: And you just do that. [00:19:08] Speaker A: You just reassure them constantly. That's okay, we'll give them a break. If the doggy wants a break. Or. And. And I just reassure them. As in, nothing goes according to plan on a dog shoot. Don't worry, your dog's doing very well. You should see. Blah, blah, blah, doggy breed. We won't mention which breed's the hardest, but there is no. [00:19:31] Speaker B: Go on, go on. Let's hear it. What's the hardest breed? [00:19:33] Speaker A: No, I'm not shaming. I can't shame them. I love them. [00:19:37] Speaker B: What about the best. What is the best breed to photograph? That's a good one. [00:19:41] Speaker A: Well, strangely, and I wouldn't have thought this was the case, but it's often a shih tzu cross, lazo apso, which is. [00:19:56] Speaker B: I don't. [00:19:56] Speaker A: If I'd pronounce that wrong. Owners, I apologize. But yeah, so the shih tzus and the, the lazo apso, and there are often crosses of that breed, all mixed with the Maltese. The strangest thing happens. I meet them and they're little, right? They're little fluffy things. And I go, could I work with you today and get some beautiful portraits for your parents? Like, I ask them spiritually, would that be okay? The parents love that, of course. And then they go, yes, in their head, and I go, yes. And then they just sit there like a Buddha. It's so weird. Yeah. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Really? [00:20:39] Speaker C: Do you think they can understand it? [00:20:42] Speaker A: Well, there's something called God. I'm really, like, painting myself with the brush here. But anyway, there's something called animal communication that I believe in. And there are courses. They're not university courses, but it's quite well known now. And it's. I mean, what's his name? Chris Lilly. In Summer Heights High, he takes the piss a bit with a character that's a South African animal psychic. It's hilarious. But it's not that far from that where you. You communicate with them with images instead of words. So like, let's say visualization. I. I had. I was dog sitting my stepdog Scarlet. And she was really stressed that her mum hadn't come to pick her up. She was stressed and she was sitting by the door and I was like, scarlett, she's gonna. She's not home. You're with me. You're gonna be much happier here. She didn't get it. And so I sat there and I visualized. All you photographers can do this because you're all visual creatures. I visualized Scarlett's home completely empty and her mum wasn't there. And I said, see, it's empty. And I said, scarlett, why don't you come and hang out with me? And she trotted over from the door and sat next to me. No words. So it's that. It's that kind of. And. And people do it with wildlife, monkeys, zoo creatures. It's fascinating. Fascinating. [00:22:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:16] Speaker A: So I believe that. [00:22:18] Speaker B: To your vision board, Justin. [00:22:23] Speaker C: I feel like I do this, and I don't know if it's just because I approach them in a certain way or whatever, but there's definitely a. Most dogs like me, and it's. And I think it's in the way that you approach them when you first [00:22:38] Speaker A: meet them or whatever you like most dogs. [00:22:41] Speaker C: Well, that's true. [00:22:43] Speaker A: They know that straight away. And if a person is scared of dogs, they can smell it in your enzymes and your sweat straight away. So you. They like you because you like them already. [00:22:57] Speaker B: Right. [00:22:58] Speaker A: And. And. And so you'll take that with you on your shoots and they'll love that. [00:23:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think there's a lot to be said about, you know, communication, especially with, you know, domestic pets or any animals, really. But, you know, like. Like I told you, I've got a dog, Hazel, and we've got five cats. And it must. Our household. Well, our household is weird, but it must seem very weird to outsiders because all day, because I work from home, I'm just talking to the cats, like, out loud. [00:23:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:27] Speaker B: I'm talking about their, you know. Did you enjoy your breakfast? Cool. All right. Well, no, no, you've had enough. And, you know, it's just that whole. It's just this running dialogue. In our home, we all communicate with the cats in that way. [00:23:37] Speaker A: And I would love that. [00:23:39] Speaker B: They do, you know, and similar to Justin, I find that all dogs like me and. And I like them in return, you know, And I. You know, it's funny. It's that whole thing of walking down the street and see an amazing dog and. And you're. Oh, who's this? What's their name? May I pat them? [00:23:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:23:57] Speaker B: And I don't pay any attention to the owner. [00:23:59] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. They know that their dog's hot. [00:24:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. They get it. Yeah. That's the fifth time I've been stopped this morning. You know, [00:24:09] Speaker A: it's so wonderful. They're such wonderful creatures. [00:24:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:13] Speaker C: Agree very quickly before. I've probably got five minutes before. Yeah. I want to find out. So, so how long has the dog photography business been running and how much of that will do now? [00:24:31] Speaker A: It's probably 10 years now and [00:24:38] Speaker B: I [00:24:38] Speaker A: can't control what percentage of my work it is because it just depends on what's rolling in. So at the moment it's quite busy. So. Because I've got lots of different, well, I've got some different wings of photography. It releases the pressure a lot financially and also on myself because I don't. I'm just relaxed because anything can happen at any moment from different directions. [00:25:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:12] Speaker A: Like I would say it's overall, perhaps [00:25:17] Speaker C: 30% of your total photography work and business life. Okay. [00:25:24] Speaker A: It does change a lot. I could not do dog photography full time. I know some dog photographers who do that and I would go crazy. I've already been crazy. So. [00:25:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, turn it up a notch. [00:25:40] Speaker A: Like. It's just, you just don't want to do that full time because it's incredibly energetically intense and you walk away and you need to lie down. [00:25:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:57] Speaker A: In a good way. But you have to be at a certain vibration. Light hearted, happy, relaxed. There's chaos happening in every direction. Doesn't matter. [00:26:09] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So you can't, you know, you can't do those back to back all day trying to make a. Oh no, I [00:26:17] Speaker A: don't, I don't do more than absolute max two dog photography shoots a week. [00:26:23] Speaker C: Yeah, okay. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Because, because my post production is so huge. That's such a massive part of my process. The, the, the shoot is only, I don't know, 20%. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and what's sort of, what's the demographic of people that are reaching out to you for their dog photography? Or more importantly, who are you marketing to? [00:26:49] Speaker A: Well, I don't market, I don't market much anymore because of, I think I have a established online footprint now and it's, it's kind of rolls itself. But I have become a family portraiture person with babies. [00:27:08] Speaker B: What? Really? [00:27:09] Speaker A: Yeah. People are coming for family portraiture and they just see that I do dogs and then they bring their families along. And of course you don't want to not do that because that will expand your, the number of purchases ultimately. Right. So you don't ever want to knock anyone out. Not that I'm doing it for the money. Anyone. I'm doing it for the art. But I have to pay my rent, my mortgage. So I would say the demographic is young. Well, not even young, actually. It's just everyone. It's just. I get. I get. I get gay dog dads with three dogs. I get senior couples. I get couples in their 20s. Oh. I do gift cards. And so quite a few hubbies or boyfriends get their girlfriend a gift card, and then they lose their mind because it's a surprise and it's so cute. [00:28:11] Speaker C: Oh, that's. That's great. [00:28:12] Speaker B: That's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. [00:28:17] Speaker A: But, yeah, I mean, the. Honestly, the best part is, is showing them the selection, the highlight selection that I have put together, and then they choose their finals, and they just. They often cry. [00:28:33] Speaker C: Oh, really? That's. [00:28:36] Speaker A: And you just feel like such a. Like. Like you've done a wonderful thing for them, and it's beautiful. And there's also doggies. Rainbow Bridge shoots where doggies are about to die, which is, you know, very. It's pretty special. I've shot a whole family, and their dog was being put down that night, and they needed me to shoot that morning because it would be too late the next day. And so there were five of them and the doggy. And it was their last day with the doggy. [00:29:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really documented. When I lost Yuki, I. I documented that whole last day. Yeah. Because, you know, especially we have, at the time, we had five kids, plus my sister was here, and one of our. [00:29:18] Speaker A: What did you just say? [00:29:20] Speaker B: Oh, we have kids. Well, yeah, we're. We're a Brady Bunch. We're a blended family. I'm Mr. [00:29:25] Speaker A: Okay. [00:29:26] Speaker B: Except I don't earn the sort of money he earned, obviously. But, yeah, so we two have now moved out this week, which is. Which is lovely. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Next week. [00:29:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been happening. I'm gonna finally get a photography studio. [00:29:41] Speaker A: Well done. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Anyway, no wonder you're sitting down. [00:29:45] Speaker A: Greg with. [00:29:47] Speaker C: They're packing their stuff, and Greg was already in there measuring the room for. [00:29:56] Speaker B: Now. I've done my job. Just hurry up. [00:29:59] Speaker A: God help you. You have. You deserve all creative freedom that you can get. [00:30:03] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you. [00:30:04] Speaker A: You do. [00:30:05] Speaker B: But, yeah, documenting that was really important for me. And later it turned out that it, you know, it proved important for the kids because everyone was in different emotional states. You know, one of my children has autism or is autistic, and he didn't visualize any of what was happening. So we had the photos for him to go through later in his own time when he was ready to talk and process and all that sort of stuff. So it is incredibly important. And I think it's. It's a thing that a lot of people overlook. Maybe in pet photography with that end of life stuff, some people don't see it as worth documenting. It's messy, it's ugly, it's emotional, it's hurtful. Why would I want to, you know, capture all of that? But, yeah, I think it's important. [00:30:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, even if the doggie has tumors everywhere and is. Is not. Is not visually looking beautiful because I shoot outside, you can still shape the images with the, with the family around it to make it beautiful. And you can always remove stuff so you can. You can make them bloody gorgeous. [00:31:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. [00:31:13] Speaker C: One of my first paid shoots. Just before I go. One of my first pages. [00:31:18] Speaker A: You keep saying that, but you don't really want to go, do you, Justin? [00:31:21] Speaker C: I don't want to go, but now I have to. One of my first paid shoots was a family that their dog was. Yeah. Was getting put down the next. I think the next day and all the kids are in town and they called me out of the blue because my website was. Was ranking well on. On Google and just said, can you do this? And I had a little, like a little mock studio at home and just said, yeah, sure. So I got shots of all the kids with the. The pooch and the family together and stuff like that. Need to find them because it's one of my first. Definitely one of my first paid photography. And that's. I think it's really interesting that, that. What are we now, almost 15 years later, I'm thinking about launching a dog photography business. Yeah, probably right there. Like, hey, what. What about this? [00:32:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, this will bring you joy and everyone else around you. [00:32:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I didn't even think about it. All right, I better actually go now, but I'll be hopefully listening a little bit. But I'll definitely listen to everything later, so I can't wait to hear the conversation. [00:32:25] Speaker A: Nice to meet you, Justin. And your straps look cool. [00:32:28] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:32:29] Speaker C: Hey, we should actually. Maybe we should do an ad before I go. Go to Lucky if you want a beautiful leather camera strap. Go to Lucky Straps.com and use code Greg. And you can save on all of [00:32:40] Speaker B: our beautiful Cha Ching people. Cha Ching. [00:32:43] Speaker A: They look beautiful and practical. [00:32:45] Speaker C: Yes. We'll have to. Let's get. Get you on to try? [00:32:48] Speaker A: Oh, I'd love that. [00:32:50] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll take care of it. We know some people. [00:32:52] Speaker C: We know people. All right, have fun, guys. I'll. I'll listen. [00:32:57] Speaker B: Cool. All right, you'll be safe. [00:32:59] Speaker A: Great to meet you. [00:33:01] Speaker C: Bye. [00:33:02] Speaker A: Bye. [00:33:06] Speaker B: Are you still here? Why won't he leave? Hey, he's gone. Thank God he's gone. No joking. Let's keep the dog photography theme rolling for a little bit longer. I want to ask you about your. Your Bondi project, which was part of the Head On Photo Festival. Was that. That was a couple of years ago. [00:33:22] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Yep, yep. [00:33:24] Speaker B: Tell us about that. I might bring that up while you talk to it. Oh, yeah, Cool website. [00:33:29] Speaker A: Will I be able to see that? [00:33:31] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, we'll work something out. [00:33:33] Speaker A: Let me just find. That was a wonderful experience and actually snowballed into such a. A fantastic foundation for. For media. [00:33:46] Speaker B: Yep. [00:33:48] Speaker A: Now it will be. [00:33:50] Speaker B: I'm on the wrong side. [00:33:51] Speaker A: Hang on. Yeah, it's on. No, that's the right site, but if you go to Home Gallery at the top. Yeah, it'll. It'll spool through on the left. You'll see just under the logo. [00:34:03] Speaker B: Home Gallery. [00:34:04] Speaker A: Yep, yep, yep, yep. Go there. So it'll. It'll go. And if you just spool. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:34:10] Speaker A: So that's Bondi beach, everyone. That's the north coast. That's Bondi beach again. Bloody gorgeous. Little Snoffy. So Head On. Head on is a photo festival in Sydney. It might. It might go around Australia, actually. I can't remember, but I entered and then my, My dog photos were selected. You can see one in my. In the corner up here. So up there, that's Jeff. Oh, yeah, he was in the exhibition. So, yeah, it's for photographers, everyone. You can enter and they select some. Some images or exhibitions to be along the Bondi beach promenade, which is a very, very beautiful gallery if you think about it. [00:35:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:06] Speaker A: And that's it there. Yes, Yep. And it gets a lot of eyeballs on it because if you're not from here, guys, everyone walks along there for exercise and just to see the view. [00:35:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:22] Speaker A: So there were 10 images. And then my wonderful, wonderful friend Claire Thompson, who is an author, but she. For her other work, she's a media expert. And so we were chatting and she goes, let's do a bit of pr. And so we did. And then all of a sudden I get a bit of a call. Oh, hang on. The first thing that happens was there was a double page spread in the Sydney Morning Herald, which is the Main paper in Sydney, which was a big deal because obviously dog photography is not exactly news. Right. It's not news, but sometimes we need [00:36:02] Speaker B: feel good stories, don't we? [00:36:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It's the light and fluff. [00:36:04] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:36:06] Speaker A: So that's Scarlet, the first one there, who I was talking about earlier. Yeah. Sydney Morning Herald. And we were just absolutely thrilled. Claire Thompson, you did a great bloody job on that. Incredible. But then, because it was in the paper, Channel ten News wanted to do a bit of a story. All of a sudden I've got Sandra Sully doing a piece on me and she's pretty famous and. And it was just so. It was so easy and. And the festival was very happy because they got a lot of coverage. [00:36:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:42] Speaker A: And I had a little dachshund down there with me, licking my face, putting dog spit all over me. And that was cool and it was just. It was really rewarding. But fellow artists and photographers, there's a name for it. What's the name? There's a name for. If you have media to back up your dreams, they call it something like social verification or something. And it's very important to a business that someone can see that you're legit through other sources other than your own website saying you're excellent. And so any media you can get is so helpful to getting clients or just reassuring clients. And so that that Channel 10 logo now links to that interview and it's on my signature for all of my emails, even my other business, because it's great. It's great for me, it's great for them. [00:37:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:41] Speaker A: So I have been building media wherever I can, newspapers, whatever, just to. It just really helps your reputation and your profile. And it's another thing I learned, photographers, your reputation is everything, absolutely everything. And the most important thing is that your clients walk away from your shoots having had the best time. Like, even. Even the political clients, you have to make them feel really, really good about themselves. And it has to be authentic. You can't just make shit up, you know, it has to be real. And that, I have found, is just Paramount. And if you need to do an online course or whatever on how to do that, then that would be really helpful if it doesn't come to you naturally. But compliments, warmth, you don't go in with. My casting director once said to me, there are two types of people in the world, Annabelle, or sorry, two types of actors. There are warm characters. Warm, naturally warm. And there are cool people. And if you are naturally a cool person, you want to put Your warm hat on for the shoot. Because if you imagine feeling vulnerable doing something you weren't comfortable with, whatever might be being photographed, the person running the show needs to be like a mama to your feelings. [00:39:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:12] Speaker A: Don't worry if you're cool, cool people can be warm. It's not set in stone. [00:39:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it all comes back to something that we, we touched on before we went live. We're talking about the importance of people skills. And obviously that's a, that's a very broad quality because you can apply it whether you're in corporate or the arts or wherever you are. Having people skills helps also to build your reputation because if you're an agreeable, happy, one, warm, approachable person, that it can only do good things for your business and your craft. And, you know, I find that when I, when I am intentionally warm with people that I'm working with and not putting it on, but just actually being, you know, openly warm, that whatever it is we're working on goes so much better. Totally through that. [00:39:59] Speaker A: You build and yeah, yeah, the vibe is pleasant. Everyone wants to be feeling good. And I would say, I'm not even kidding, that it is 50 to 60% of the reason that I am, that my clients are growing. [00:40:20] Speaker B: Yep, yep. [00:40:22] Speaker A: And then of course, you have to have the technical skills, but how do you make them feel on the ground during a shoot? And that. Yeah, it's just, it's quite bizarre how effective it is. Yeah. I'm always surprised by it. [00:40:40] Speaker B: And so what, you know, we talked about supporting newer photographers or not necessarily young people, even older people that have taken up photography who are looking to expand their craft and maybe, you know, start getting some clients. What would be your top three pieces of advice for personalization skills and people skills? What are the top three, do you think that people could work with? I didn't tell you there's going to be a quiz, did I? [00:41:10] Speaker A: No, that's okay. I love a quiz. I'll get there. I was very academic as a child. I'm into it. Number one, the greeting. So often at a dog photography shoot, I haven't met them in person yet and they might be nervous. The greeting, the energy of your greeting will set the tone for the whole thing. And so I try and be light hearted and I try and give them a compliment about perhaps the outfit they've chosen or how beautifully their dog is groomed. [00:41:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:45] Speaker A: And that, that makes people feel appreciated and more relaxed because not everyone likes meeting strangers. I love it, but I didn't. When I Was a kid, I was so shy I couldn't go into a shop. It was horrific. I was paralyzingly shy. So that's the number one. Your hello. And perhaps something like, thank you so much for coming. The weather is gorgeous, but it's got to be real. People can sniff out a fake like that. So you have to be able to feel it yourself. [00:42:19] Speaker B: Yeah, [00:42:25] Speaker A: I do a bit of chit chat, which is very difficult if you're trying to concentrate on technical stuff and, and a dog. But I do a bit of chit chat during the shoot to relax them. Yeah, get them, get them talking. They just want to feel that they [00:42:42] Speaker B: are [00:42:45] Speaker A: liked, appreciated and doing a good job as a subject. They want to feel great. And I'll. I mean, this is just dogs, but I would do this with politicians. I shoot a lot of politicians now. I might fix their hair so that it's looking better on ladies, but I will always ask them properly. But that makes them feel nurtured. If you'll just adjust something just to make them, make them feel that you're looking after their beauty and aesthetics. For women and older women, that is absolutely crucial. But you can't touch them without asking them. You have to ask them consent, consent, consent. And then you, you have to give the feeling that you are having a great time on your shoot and that you love, you are so happy to be there and you love being a photographer. So of course you don't let, like, if there's a client that's really difficult, which happens to everyone and they are being too demanding or whatever, of course you can stand up for yourself and you don't have to roll over for everything and you can eventually create boundaries, right? But at the beginning, if that client is new, let's say it's a commercial client or government or whatever, it's not the right time to make massive fusses about everything. If they're a new client, you can make compromises at the beginning and then later, when you've established a rapport and a good connection, that's when you can push back and go, well, this isn't working for me. But basically someone said to me, I was a comms manager when I worked in the same kind of similar area to you, to you in the corporate land. But I was in government, I was a senior communications officer, right? And one woman said to me from the media team when there was this massive, massive stuff up, so big on a government scale, so big. And she just looked at me and she goes, comms is king Annabelle and that communication is king of all kings. If I have an email, a difficult email to send, I will spend so long on it making sure that it doesn't trigger the receiver. And you can use ChatGPT to help with that if you want. Everyone but not the whole thing because then you just sound like a bot. But that's my main takeaway. Comms is king. Make the comms in every area of your business. Friendly, warm, easy, polite and nurturing. Vibe wise. [00:45:32] Speaker B: Nice. [00:45:32] Speaker A: It's not always easy if you're not in the mood, you know. [00:45:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And it takes practice to, for it to be natural, you know, and that's right. For it to be natural. While you're in a, often in a high pressure situation where you know, you're being paid to take these photos, you've got your opportunity, don't stuff it up. And like you said, you know, you're dealing with, with perhaps a client, then a subject, then your own challenges about making sure you've got your gear set up and your life. Everything's. [00:46:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, and with event photography, which I do, a lot of things are changing so fast, but I guess that's like a film set. So I had a lot of training in that. But yeah, you've got to be very, very adaptable. And if you are feeling stressed and having a panic attack, do not show it. Go and take it to the portaloo. [00:46:24] Speaker B: Yep, yep. [00:46:26] Speaker A: It's not for the client. Yeah, that's so panic attacks, panic attacks are everywhere. God knows I've had heaps of them. Yeah, yeah. Like so they're my, they're my main ones. But yeah, honestly, it will be half, it will, it will determine half your income. Those people skills that you develop, which is fascinating. [00:46:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it is, isn't it? Just from being a nice person, pretty [00:46:57] Speaker A: much happy in yourself and nice to them. That's right, that's right. [00:47:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:01] Speaker A: And of course you have to have the talent to back it up at the, on the tech side. [00:47:07] Speaker B: Yeah, of course, you know, but your [00:47:08] Speaker A: photos get so much better when the person you're shooting is relaxed. [00:47:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think a dog, dog photography, you need your client to be relaxed because if the client is stressed or upset, the dog will know it and the dog will behave differently for you. [00:47:25] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And then, and then the owner gets stressed and then it's a vicious loop. [00:47:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it just keeps going around. [00:47:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:47:32] Speaker B: So, so right, let's roll back the clock a little bit. I know we talked earlier about your, you know, building a dream and working towards it. And I, I don't, I don't think there's ever any such thing as a. Not that I'm calling yours this, but I think there's anything such as a failed dream. You know, I think, I think when we set goals and, and we have a vision for ourselves of where we want to go, that might pivot. It might pivot several times in your life, in your career. And that's okay because everything you did before influences what you're going to do tomorrow. Yeah, it's all part of that, you know, humanizing yourself, learning that sort of stuff. But let's roll back the clock a little bit. You know, you were so set on this dream of yours when you were younger. Where did that, where did that seed get planted for you? And you know, what sort of a, you know, upbringing have you had that's influenced you as a visual creative? [00:48:26] Speaker A: Well, I saw this possible question in your email, Greg, and so I thought about this. Thank God. And I thought I actually have quite a bit to say on this because although I kind of grew up in a semi conservative area, my upbringing was not conservative and which, which I'm really happy with. So from the very beginning, mum and like when I was 18 months old, mum and dad got a combi and we went around Scandinavia for six months when I was 18 months old and Europe just living in, living out of combi in camping grounds. And so from the very, very beginning I think it was natural world. And mum is a huge. So Mum's a poet, but mum when I was younger was a photographer and had a dark room in her home. Mum's now a poet and a English teacher at uni to. I don't know if you still do that, Mum. Anyway, and dad was an engineer, but dad had all these artist kids and an artist's wife and just now gets like taken around to all this arty art, art, art, art, the poor thing. And he's very. Not arty, but so they, they did that. So very early on I was into nature, but also travel and movement. And then we came home to Sydney and I went to a demonstration school and it was weird. [00:50:06] Speaker B: What's a demonstration school? [00:50:07] Speaker A: Exactly? What is a demonstration school? I didn't know that I was at a demonstration school. It's where they test out new ideas. [00:50:16] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:50:18] Speaker A: So honestly, the whole place was just like a big artist petri dish. I didn't have a math lesson until I was in year five. My teacher, my main teacher was a dance teacher. So we did Things like relaxation in the main hall twice a day where she'd come round and pick up our arms and check that they were properly relaxed. And then we'd do things like learned to stilt walk so that we could have our main show, our end of year show, which was called Epoch. And we all built dinosaur and fantastical creatures and we went around on stilts as kids. [00:50:58] Speaker B: Wow. [00:50:59] Speaker A: And all the parents came and watched and went. Yeah, Epoch. [00:51:03] Speaker B: Yep. [00:51:04] Speaker A: And so. [00:51:06] Speaker B: So it's kind of like an alternative school. Like a. Like how Steiner and Sophia Mundi, all of those sorts of. [00:51:12] Speaker A: There are lots of arty kids. [00:51:13] Speaker B: Practices. [00:51:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, but it was in North Sydney. It's not like that's a alternative area. It's not like bloody the hinge land around Byron. [00:51:22] Speaker B: And then. [00:51:24] Speaker A: So that was cool. And then mom was always, always, always arty and brought us up on copious amounts of fairy tales and fantasy books and there were always beautiful decorations and it was all very. Yeah, I mean it was just. It was just filled with art and. And alternate realities. So. And then. And then as from when I was very young, they bought land down south and there were. There was lots of camping, lots of fires, lots of bushwalks, lots of. Lots of going to Kosciusko and walking to the top and the wildflowers and it was all like. And then there were family friends from France who were also into nature. So there was a nudist beach one time, which was too much information for like on the central coast. But. But it was. Yeah. And I think that has informed my absolute love of landscape photography. But combining it with travel and not travel that's accessible to tourists, travel that you have to slog it out to get to. [00:52:49] Speaker B: Yep, yep. [00:52:51] Speaker A: Like you have to hike. And I just. And then I guess what I really enjoyed from landscape photography was in post production making it into a fantasy world. So by. By dehazing the sky and saturating, creating contrast in the clouds and. And I. I did infrared photography for ages and took an infrared camera to Peru. [00:53:15] Speaker B: Oh, wow. That's pretty cool. Justin. Justin's. Actually we. A couple of weeks ago we had Wayne Rogers on, who is the head of Imaging by Design here in Melbourne and they do all of the Nikon and Leica repairs as well as they do infrared or full spectrum conversions. I actually visited. Yeah, we had it on the podcast a couple of weeks ago. If anyone's listening is interested in that, go back and check it out. It's probably two episodes ago with Wayne Rogers and I actually Went to Imaging By Design yesterday to get my camera sensor clean because I found a spot on it while I was doing some long exposure photography. And he took me on a tour of the facility and showed me everything, like literally everything they do there and talked about the, the conversion of infra infrared cameras. Do you still shoot infrared? [00:54:02] Speaker A: I think it's where I sent my camera to get converted because they didn't do it in Sydney. Yeah, yeah. [00:54:07] Speaker B: No, there's not many places to do it now, but yeah, it was probably there. Yeah, it's a real. It's fascinating. It's an absolute fact because this. And you know what? I. And even yesterday even elevated my appreciation of just what goes into what those camera manufacturers do to create a camera that is as smart and powerful as we use today. Just the technology and the thinking and the science and the discoveries behind, you know, creating image sensors, you know, like. Yeah, you know. [00:54:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:36] Speaker B: Anyway, we've flown off topic. We have flown off topic. [00:54:39] Speaker A: That's okay. We can go on tangents. [00:54:41] Speaker B: We can, but infrared. Do you still shoot infrared at all? [00:54:44] Speaker A: I haven't. I, I feel like I, I might, I might pick it up again. I've still got the camera, but I feel like I have gone. I'm just on to new creative tangents now. Yeah. So I haven't kept going. [00:54:58] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is interesting that it happens. I, I picked up a macro kit last year before we went to the Bright Festival Photography and loved it. Used it over spring. Spring last year. Yeah. But I haven't felt compelled to pick it up again because I'm working on other stuff. You know, it's really interesting when that happens. Your brain kind of switches into a different gear and goes, all right, we'll put that aside for now. Let's. Oh, here's an idea. Let's do this, you know. [00:55:27] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I am. I just did a macro job. My first paid macro gig. This absolutely wonderful project called Resilient Rivers. It's a. It's a $40 million project combining 11 councils in Southeast Queensland. And they're trying to save and rehabilitate the river systems that are dying from various things. Like they're trying to fix flooding. And anyway, so there were these vines ruining platypus habitat, koala habitat. And they have bred these beetles, tiny, teeny, teeny beetles that eat only the invasive vines. So the job was the minister, the environment and industry minister was launching the. The vine eating bugs. And it was just, it was so cool. It was so. Because I hadn't. And I Had my proper macro. What's it called? A signature diffuser. [00:56:41] Speaker B: Yeah, diffuser. Yeah, I've got one of them, yeah. That's an Aussie company, is it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it is, yeah. [00:56:49] Speaker A: And then we had to try and work out how to get the bug that was only 2 millimeters big and the minister in shot, which is not easy. Anyway, it was fascinating. [00:57:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:02] Speaker A: So macro is cool. I just love it. And some of the dudes on Instagram and the dudettes doing those extreme macro. [00:57:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:11] Speaker A: Where you can see the cross hatching in the eyes of the bug. Just incredible. [00:57:16] Speaker B: Yeah. We've got a few people who've been on the show do a bit of macro and like you, I follow a lot of people on social media that just do mind bending stuff. [00:57:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:24] Speaker B: You know, the level of detail is astronomical. [00:57:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:28] Speaker B: At a macro level. [00:57:30] Speaker A: And they're taking their backgrounds out into the field and just placing them behind the insect so they get the beautiful pink or green or whatever. [00:57:38] Speaker B: Yeah, that nice blur. Yep. [00:57:40] Speaker A: Genius. [00:57:41] Speaker B: It is very clever. So speaking of different genres, obviously, so we've got. Excuse me, sorry. We've got your call of the wild pet photography business and that has its own independent website, which is very distracting because it's. It's currently going through a carousel right now and next to me and all I can see is beautiful dogs. You might have to. But then the other side of your output, creative output, is, you know, Annabel Osborne photography and you, you do a wide range of genres that also includes filmmaking on that side of things. At what point did you. Because you kind of indicated that the dog photography started up as an opportunity to make some income and you love dogs, obviously. When did the idea to separate those arms of your business come about and what led you to that decision? [00:58:43] Speaker A: As when I was in, when I was writing feature scripts, I had a job in government as a communications officer. Senior communications officer. It became handling intense stuff and it was only part time, so I could do both. [00:59:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:05] Speaker A: And I learned a lot about how government works. So this is another thing, everyone listening. Every single experience you've ever had could lead to photography clients. And even though you might not think that it can, so I learned so much about how it works and I started to do more government event photography coming from a few different places and it just, it was just so completely different to the dog photography. I, I had an understanding that people looking for dog photography do not want to see other stuff. Right. It's completely niche. I've worked in family portraiture into the dog Photography because it can sit there but they don't want to see all the other things. So I thought I have. Yeah, I just thought I have to separate and. And I already had a filmmaking website and I thought I'll just. I'll just put my. All my other photography in there and now because. Because things are rolling and the energy of the universe is helping me instead of hindering me because I'm. Because I'm enjoying life again. It doesn't matter too much about like having specific areas within the Annabel Osborne photography because I've got flow and so I'm just not that concerned. People, people. I'm getting word of mouth referrals instead of strangers coming to the website like they do with dog photography. Because you generally won't shoot a dog photographer. The client again. Perhaps maybe twice. Once I did. Once I did an engagement after the wife enjoyed the. Sorry. The girlfriend enjoyed the shoot so much. The husband, the boyfriend later came back and said, would you shoot the Surprising. The surprise proposal. Sorry, not engagement, a proposal. Anyway, yeah, so. So I just knew that dog photography can't go with all the other things. [01:01:23] Speaker B: Yep. [01:01:24] Speaker A: And that is. You don't want to be a jack of all trades, you know? [01:01:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. [01:01:30] Speaker A: You want to specialize. Even though my Annabelle Osborne photography site is a bit of a. Well, it's not really. There's lots of government stuff and portraiture. I mean, it's just. Just one big pile of art, really. [01:01:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:43] Speaker A: I don't know, it seems to be working. I'm not a marketing expert at all. I don't know that much about. I think you're. I think your universal vibration about how you feel about yourself and your approach to your craft is much more significant than anything else. But you have to have a shit hot website, obviously. [01:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:04] Speaker A: It has to look good, right? [01:02:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. It has to catch someone's eye. It has to show that you're professional and edgy, but not, not so restricted, you know, you want it to be a bit fun. You want it to. To have energy in life. And you're looking at the front page. This photo I showed my partner Sash this morning. We both oohed an art over it. Let me just bring up this photo. [01:02:28] Speaker A: Oh, is it Caprice? Caprice, if you're listening, you are such a legend. I love you. [01:02:34] Speaker B: Oh, it's gone. Hang on, I'll just bring up this, this page. Guys, sorry. [01:02:38] Speaker A: Is it the Dawn Reflection Indigenous dancer? [01:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:02:43] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's so cool. You can bring it up like that. [01:02:47] Speaker B: Where's it gone? What would it be under? [01:02:52] Speaker A: It's. It's just. Go to Annabel Osborne. It's on the homepage. [01:02:56] Speaker B: Yeah, Here we go. It's come back. Yeah. [01:02:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:58] Speaker B: This image here is absolutely stunning. I could look at this image all day. [01:03:03] Speaker A: Thank you so much. [01:03:05] Speaker B: Tell us a little bit about this project. Oh, it keeps going away. Sorry. [01:03:09] Speaker A: So sorry, guys. I don't. It's on a slider. I don't have another one for now. So that. Her name is Caprice and she was part of an indigenous dance group. I can't pronounce the name, so I'm not going to try. But I met them all at Dawn Reflection and in Sydney, at Bondi, they have Dawn Reflection is on Australia Day to commemorate the indigenous people and pay respects to anyone they lost back in the day when good old Captain Cook came and slaughtered everyone. So. And it's so beautiful because it's at 5am, right. I am not a morning person. Neither are many people and it doesn't matter. Like, so many people come and they come and there's no. There's only, like, two minutes of speeches. Everyone sits in a massive semicircle. The sun rises and then the indigenous dancers come out as the sun rises. Everyone's got their shoes off and there's a DJ player and it is absolutely superb. Superb and so special. And then this other lady, the fire lady. I can't remember her name, sorry. Lights a fire and smokes everyone and smudges them for. To cleanse you for the year ahead. And it's just the most gorgeous community event. And the fire as the sun rises, basically, it's. It's one of my. It's one of my top three. Top five, top three events. [01:04:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:59] Speaker A: Because it's such a privilege to witness this. They're in traditional dress, the music's incredible. Everyone's silent. It's just. It's absolutely beautiful. And so I met Caprice there and then I started thinking. I've always wanted to combine my landscapes. Sorry about that. My fantasy level landscapes with fashion, but not normal fashion, like out there fashion. Like wearable art, sculpture fashion. And I thought Caprice met Gala kind of stuff. Yeah, but not. Yes, but. But in. But in a more nature. [01:05:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:45] Speaker A: Themed way. Not in a silly way. Anyway, I thought Caprice has got so much presence. I wonder if she'd like to do a fine art project with me. So we have had our first meeting and we've gone shopping for some stuff and I'm thinking maybe earth, air, fire, water. In different landscapes, a night shoot, like really, really out there. Not. Not standard. And anyone who's listening, like, I've. I've. I would love to shoot fashion one day professionally. And so I don't have a fashion. I've shot a cover of a new magazine, but I don't have much fashion in my portfolio. So something like this creative project, I am creating my own portfolio. So. So anyone out there who loves something, just start shooting. Don't worry about. Because you have to have something to show possible clients of your vision and your skill set. So it might lead somewhere, I don't know. But I'm really excited because it's more of a cinematic vision than. And a lovely lady who works at council leave said to me, I know your filmmaking dreams didn't come true, but this is static storytelling. You are doing it in a different way. And I thought that's such a beautiful thing to say to someone whose heart was broken for a long, long time, you know? [01:07:20] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that is like. And it's, you know, often some of the people that we have had on the show and also people in the chat will say, you know, filmmaking. To boil it down to its simplest, for a photographer, filmmaking is just taking 24 or 60 shots per second, whereas photography is about taking one at a time to tell the story. And I like that, that static kind of approach to it. And it's also an interesting tale of how one opportunity can lead to something else. [01:07:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If. [01:07:54] Speaker B: If you found someone who could be your muse and. [01:07:57] Speaker A: Yes, everything. And also some of the relationships that I have created have taken five years, seven years to come to the point where I'm working with them. Yeah, that's. I mean, and. And that's very difficult to support yourself financially during that growth period. Freelance is hell, basically. It's hell on earth. However, it's not as bad as not doing the thing that isn't flowing for you. It's not as bad as that. [01:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. No, definitely not. [01:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:08:36] Speaker B: Interesting. Let's talk a little bit about your filmmaking. So, you know, you worked in Australia and in the US on film and on TV series. What did, what did that stuff teach you that you've carried over into your photography career? What was the. What was. You know, what are the things that sort of helped you master photography? [01:09:06] Speaker A: The cinema. The cinema. What I learned about cinematography and, and how the placement of the subject in the frame creates the feeling in the story that was just huge. And, and that there is the. The. The cinematographers are actual geniuses. What they know about light, they're just what they know about lighting, composition, angles, movement. It's, it's, it's the surgery, surgery of camera knowledge, surgeon level. So I learned a bit of that. Certainly nowhere near, but I learned some of that and I just loved it. I thought it was fascinating. So that was key, I guess. I also learned about a lot about lenses and the DOP's choices. Director of photography, everyone, if you're not sure what DOP is, that's that in filmland, that's the cinematographer, director of photography or, or dp. Yeah, so. So when I was bored as an assistant director on set, I, I would be writing down the lens size choices and what they're doing and stuff. Just out of interest, I guess I learn about hierarchy and extreme pressure moments in film and tv. If you step out of the hierarchy on set when something crucial is happening. It is so expensive. That's why they have 50, 100 people there for every single tiny role. Because it's so expensive to crew, to light, to fund this moving story that everyone has a role for the tiniest thing. And I did learn that how to work in a team like a cog in a clock. And you better know where you need to be at the right moment or you're going to be in big trouble. So that was. I learned discipline, I guess. [01:11:21] Speaker B: Yep. [01:11:27] Speaker A: And just the difference between the freelance world, because I was, I was crew for a long time as an assistant director. The difference between the freelance world compared with my friends that were taking traditional roles. Like a full time job. [01:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:46] Speaker A: Just completely different. Completely different. Yeah. And it was all just who you know, who you know, who you know, who you know on whether you got more work and whether you did a good job. But yeah, it was, there was a lot of fear there because often there wasn't enough work to go around in Australia. So there was, there was a great amount of financial stress among the crew and yeah, it wasn't very pleasant. But then I couldn't do nine to five. What's that? [01:12:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Do you think that's changing the, the filmmaking landscape in Australia? [01:12:19] Speaker A: Oh, gosh, definitely. With AI, it's growing. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. AI is just changing everything. And as the cameras get smaller, more and more people can have access to making things without so much money, if any. [01:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Videos, especially on socials. [01:12:43] Speaker A: May I take a little break? [01:12:46] Speaker B: You may. That's. [01:12:47] Speaker A: Thank you so much. [01:12:48] Speaker B: All right. [01:12:49] Speaker A: Thank you so much. I'll be back in a sec. [01:12:51] Speaker B: Okay, Let me just fix that. Let me just jump into a couple. All of a sudden I'm on my own. This is so intimidating. A couple of quick comments. Rodney Nicholson again. My mum photographed me carrying my Irish setter to his sand dune gravesite. That's beautiful. Really, really lovely. Like we talked about earlier, I think it's an important part of the genre. Justin from Lucky Camera Straps, you may have heard of him, he loves that one. I'm not really quite sure what he's talking to. And also Jim from Lucky Camera Straps is here. Good morning, Jim, Good to see you, mate. And of course Jim joined me on Monday evening. And Justin, for the most of it, his battery ran out because despite it being 2026, Bali doesn't have reliable power. But yeah, while I've got you guys, let's just quickly do an ad read for the podcast. So this is the Camera Live podcast. We come to you live two times a week. Every Thursday morning, 9am Australian Eastern Standard Time, we interview an amazing photographic guest. They could be Australian or they could be an international artist. And so, yeah, we have a chat, basically an organic conversation about their craft, how they got to where they are and what was the seed that got them on the path of being a visual creative. And then Every Monday evening, 7.30pm Australian Eastern Standard Time, we have our random photography show where we cover industry news, product launches, we do live unboxings, and we also look at your images. We have a your images section where you can send in one image, maybe two if there's a behind the scenes one with a little story to and we'll bring those images up on the show on a Monday evening and talk to them and celebrate your work. So if you want to send in your images for the Monday evening show, send them to justinuckystraps.com and yeah, we've got some amazing guests coming up in the months ahead. You'll all be pleased to know that Steve Parish, amazing Australian wildlife photographer, will be joining us in a few weeks to have a chat about everything we've got going on. And what have we got? Next week we have Chris Anderson is joining us. The week after that we have Michael Jalaru Torres, who's a First nations photographer here in Australia. And yeah, the list goes on. So to know when the next episode of the Camera Life podcast is coming up in your time zone, what you need to do is subscribe to the Camera Life channel and hit the bell icon for all notifications. And that way you will get notified in your time zone when the next episode of the Camera Live Podcast is coming. Up. And finally it helps us out a lot if you just give us a, like, give us a thumbs up. It lets other people know that we have content worth sharing and yeah, we'd love you for it. Let's get back to Annabelle. She's here now. [01:15:48] Speaker A: I've got to tell you one more thing I learned. Greg. [01:15:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:51] Speaker A: Please don't wear your microphone to the toilet. [01:15:57] Speaker B: Oh, I think. [01:15:58] Speaker A: But I didn't, I took, I took it off. I remember. [01:15:59] Speaker B: Oh good. Yeah. That reminds me of a story that the comedian Greg Davis. The British comedian Greg Davis tells his story of how he was a. Used to be a teacher at a special school and he worked with children that had like a hearing impairment. They, he had a microphone on a lanyard and, and they had a special hearing device that he could talk directly to them with. And at one point during the day, during the class he had to go rush to the toilet. Was feeling a bit upset in the tummy because he didn't curry the night before and he did his business, came out and the student was just sitting there wide eyed and ashen faced because the student of course had heard everything. [01:16:37] Speaker A: Oh, that's really. [01:16:38] Speaker B: Please make it stop. [01:16:40] Speaker C: Make it stop. [01:16:41] Speaker B: Anyway. [01:16:41] Speaker A: God, how horrific. [01:16:43] Speaker B: Yeah, there's more to that story. He tells it obviously far better than I do, but taking a photo for my mum. Oh, nice. Hi mom. Everybody wave. Where were we? We were talking about your filmmaking. Let's talk a little bit about gear for a moment if you don't mind. [01:17:03] Speaker A: Oh yeah, sure. [01:17:05] Speaker B: We love to talk about gear. Do you remember what your first camera it was or one of your first cameras that you ever owned? [01:17:19] Speaker A: I feel like it was when I was a child and it was a point and shoot with a little flash that came up. [01:17:29] Speaker B: Was it like a long thin one? [01:17:31] Speaker A: No, no, it was a rectangle. [01:17:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:17:34] Speaker A: Y and I feel like there was yellow on it. Yellow and black. [01:17:41] Speaker B: Maybe it was Kodak. [01:17:44] Speaker A: It was, yeah. [01:17:46] Speaker B: Did you, did it have the cube flash that goes on the top that, that spins? I can't remember what they're called. [01:17:51] Speaker A: No, it wasn't, it wasn't as fancy as that. [01:17:55] Speaker B: Yeah, my N had yours, Craig. My N got me or let me use. It was one of those thin long point and shoot film cameras and it took a really flat cassette film. It was like 110. I think that's it. And it had a flash, this little cube. I remember the cube. It came in like a, almost like a foil bag and you put the cube on and it had four flashes. So when you took a photo, the cube would spin, ready for the next and the bulb would burn out and that would be it, it'd be done. And then you take the flash off, you throw it out and you get another one and put it on that. That's my earliest memory. Proper, proper old school. Yeah. [01:18:34] Speaker A: Wow. [01:18:34] Speaker B: With a film that I don't know if anyone even makes anymore with that, that format. [01:18:40] Speaker A: That's a collector's item for sure now if anyone's got any of those. [01:18:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Isn't it funny when you think about the stuff that you got rid of that today. [01:18:48] Speaker A: Yes. [01:18:49] Speaker B: You would just die to have again. [01:18:51] Speaker A: Yes. So much. [01:18:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep, I remember that. So you're a Canon shooter now. Is it DSLR or Mirrorless? [01:19:03] Speaker A: No, mirrorless. I bloody love it. I got, I went to Mirrorless because I was shooting a lot of insurance commercials, RSPCA pet insurance for many years, probably six years, seven years. And I couldn't use flash because they were shooting an ad at the same time and I didn't, I didn't want to. And there was just, there were just loads of low light situations that my, my DSLR couldn't handle. And the, the R5 is heaps better. I love it. I just love it. And, and I wouldn't say like, I'm not super, super techy. I'm a bit techy, but not, not heaps. I wouldn't say that. I completely forgot what I was going to say. Oh, well, there it goes, it's gone. But yeah, I've got a really nice. Off it goes middle age. I've got a really nice set of lenses now which I just love. I didn't, I didn't. I just went with Canon. Like I would have loved to try Sony because of the lightness and all the hiking I do, or used to, but I can't be bothered changing it up now. [01:20:22] Speaker B: It's a, it's a big, it's a big step in a number of ways I think, you know, both financially changing a whole system, even if you trade in your old system, you're still going to be out of pocket for a bit unless you're really scaling down from a big kit. But the other thing is that changing systems, what some people probably don't really expect is that you lose a bit of skill, you lose a bit of quality, a bit of outcome until you get used to that camera system. System. [01:20:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:48] Speaker B: Because if you were shooting, if you were shooting Sony or Nikon for 10 years or 20 years with DSLRs, however long it you know, you were using them and you jumped to Canon. You can be the best photographer in the world. You're still going to be slower at it than you used to be because muscle memory, you need to understand all the tech side of it, how it renders color, how it renders images. You know, how do I edit a Canon file over a Nikon or, or an OM system or. You know, there's. [01:21:14] Speaker A: I have a feeling that I only know about 30 to 40% of what my Canon can do, if that. [01:21:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:23] Speaker A: Because there's not much time to learn all the new things. You can't test them on the job, you know. [01:21:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's pretty common for a lot of photographers. I mean, I shoot Fujifilm, obviously the greatest camera system ever made and. Obviously. But I don't shoot any video content whatsoever. And the latest camera I got, which is the Fujifilm XE5, has amazing videography capabilities, but it's something that I'll never use. [01:21:51] Speaker A: Right. [01:21:52] Speaker B: And so there's a big chunk of that camera or that technology and I think that's true for a lot of people. Some people will like to keep it very simple. Some people will get. Justin's a Canon R5 Mark II shooter as well. And he just won't shut up about it, to be honest. But it is, it's a phenomenal piece of technology. Absolutely. But, but yeah. So with, with dog photography, what does your typical kit look like? What lenses would you pack for a dog photography? [01:22:24] Speaker A: I take, I take the whole kit everywhere generally because I don't know what's going to happen. I've got the, my primary event lens is the RF24 to 105 mil F 2.8. And that's newer, newish, because I don't, I'm not that big. I don't like, I don't. I'm not doing the. Carrying two cameras with two heavy lenses around on my body. I'm not doing it. So I take my full kit. It's a bit, it's a bit unusual, but I just change lenses when I need to. But that, that event lens is excellent for going wide to close. And then I've got my 70 to 200 always. I've got my 16 to 35 F2.8 always. Now I bought a 11 to 24 massive wide angle, heavy as all hell, Canon Lens F, it's F4 and I'm just not using it that much anymore because I wanted to create the. For the dogs, super larger than life, heroic, wide, slightly just distorted Very close to the camera. Kind of like what I've got on my website, but. [01:23:53] Speaker B: But more almost looking up at the. At the dog. [01:23:56] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Too. It's often just too distorted, so I'm not using it, so I don't know what to do with that. And it was like five grand or something. It was expensive, but I take it anyway. And my favorite lens is the 50 mil F1 point something. 1.4, 1.8. It is. So it, it performs every single time. Every, every. It's just amazing with the dogs, with Anzac Day, with the salt, with the ex soldier veterans, with the vets. Superb portraits. Just superb. And it, it apparently is. Well, it is the field of view that the human eye has. The 50 mil, it matches exactly what we see out of our human skulls. It just looks beautiful. And when clients review the images, they love them. So that's my fave. [01:25:04] Speaker B: It's a crack at the 50 canon. 50 mils. I had. I started off on Canon before I jumped to Fujifilm because I needed a lighter kit. My Canon kit was too big. The glass was beautiful, but it was too heavy, you know, and I was trying to do street photography carrying this big bag of glass. It just wasn't. [01:25:19] Speaker A: Yeah. Exhausting. Carrying. [01:25:21] Speaker B: Very exhausting. Yeah, it does, yeah, yeah. But, but that, yeah, like even, even back then, I think Justin still got this One, the, the DSLR 51.2, 1.2. [01:25:36] Speaker A: That was lovely. [01:25:38] Speaker B: Magical. And now they've got it. You know, obviously there's the RF versions, like there's a 1.4 or 1.8 and a 1.2. I think they usually have the three. I'm pretty sure that's right. Correct me in the chat if I'm wrong, but yeah, actually Justin's currently working on a. A little bit of a project because he has, he has a problem. He likes, he does love a project, but he also loves buying stuff and he. I think at the moment he currently has all the, all the possible RF mount, 50 mils and the new 45 and he's testing them all out and he's going to do something. [01:26:09] Speaker A: Wow. He's going to open gold. [01:26:11] Speaker B: He is. Yeah, he is. He does have a problem. He admits it. He has a problem. But. [01:26:16] Speaker A: Oh, he's not the only one. Online shopping is very dangerous. [01:26:19] Speaker B: It's so, so much fun because you just. You don't feel like you're spending money. [01:26:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:26:25] Speaker B: And I remember back in the day I used to drink. I don't anymore. I would like, you know, a few days later. I'd get a parcel. After a bit of a night session, I was like, oh, I don't even want this lens. For some reason I ordered it. Yeah. [01:26:43] Speaker A: Excellent. A surprise to yourself. [01:26:46] Speaker B: It is. Yeah. Just treated myself in a different state of mind. Yeah. Thankfully, I don't do that anymore. I don't do that at all. You know, you talked, you've talked a lot about the different genres that you've tackled over the course of your career and, you know, and making that and having that realization that film wasn't going to work for you in. In that sense of, you know, making it. Like you said, there's such a small. What you call the pinnacle. The pinnacle, people at the top. And, you know, it's a bit of a trope, isn't it? You see it in dramas and comedies where, you know, the artist goes to LA or New York to make it big and they end up doing dishes for. For six years, you know, and never [01:27:32] Speaker A: get their break over there doing that. Yeah, so many. Mostly actors, but creatives as well. Yeah, it's just everyone wants to make it to the top, but. But then. Is the top as great as you hoped it was? I don't know. [01:27:49] Speaker B: Yep. [01:27:50] Speaker A: But I might, I might use AI to create some of my scripts when it, when it gets to the point where it can make a feature script and, and, and have removed the pressure that I put on myself to be at a certain level. So I'll just do it for the joy of it. And so that does make me feel better. Like I can still give birth to this creative dream without needing it to be on a global scale. Yeah. [01:28:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's cool. [01:28:31] Speaker A: AI has come at the right time, you think, just for. For people to let ideas out that. That couldn't have done it in other ways because they needed so much backing and money. I think it's really cool for that. Obviously, it's hugely problematic in some areas. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. [01:28:52] Speaker B: Yeah, we will see. And we've often talked about it here on the show. In fact, we've even had a couple of Monday night dedicated podcasts about the impact of AI on photography, you know, on image, on the editing process, all those sorts of things. And it will be interesting to see where that's heading, especially because there's so much a conflict in the world, but people are starting to push back against data center buildings in their community. [01:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm not surprised. It's draining all the water out of the rivers and stuff. It's gross. And the People living nearby have got their, their, their water they're drinking is all changed. It's a freak show. [01:29:31] Speaker B: Yeah, it's pretty crazy. [01:29:32] Speaker A: Freak show makes me really. I love the genre of taking down the man. [01:29:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. Nice. Yes. And so what's, what's on the horizon for you? I got sidetracked again. But you know, you've got all of these genres that you've, that you've worked on, you've experimented with, many of which you've mastered. What's up next for you? What, what's the next dream or create a challenge for you? [01:29:57] Speaker A: Yeah. So very, very much would like to fulfill the Earth, air, fire, water, fashion meets landscape fantasy shoot. And I, I feel confident that will happen and be really fun and beautiful and then. Excuse me, something that's just happened, a gift from the universe. I haven't, it hasn't, hasn't been solidified. But I might have the opportunity to work with Taronga Zoo. [01:30:34] Speaker B: Oh. [01:30:35] Speaker A: And that obviously would make my mind explode. [01:30:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. [01:30:41] Speaker A: Like just all of, all of the things, birds, reptiles, apex predators, apes, you know, all in one city, accessible place. [01:30:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Close to home. [01:30:53] Speaker A: We'll see. We'll see. I'll. Yeah, I'm not sure yet, but it looks promising. [01:30:58] Speaker B: And will that be a photography job or a videography job or a bit of both? [01:31:02] Speaker A: No, no, it would be photography. [01:31:04] Speaker B: Photography. Okay. [01:31:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:31:07] Speaker B: And given your range and the, the depth of, and breadth of your styles of photography, is there something that you are yet to master that you would like to tackle? Is there a genre out there that you think. I never really thought of that. Seriously. But now that I've put my mind to it, actually that I could learn that, master elements of it and then re. Employ those. [01:31:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I would love to learn more about artistic studio lighting. I don't have a handle on that. And also like multiple setups that say four lights with creating shadows, kind of what you might see in a film. That cinematic look. I do not know enough about that. And I would because I often shoot on location. And you use natural light. Yeah, I use lights with my dog photography and some portraiture. But complex artificial lighting would, I'd love to explore that. [01:32:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it's something that I, I studied film photography in art school and then self taught digital. But lighting was something that even today still intimidates me. You know, I just, I just don't know enough about. I mean I can set up a lighting kit and I can take photos with it and that sort of thing. But I too would like to master It. [01:32:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:32:40] Speaker B: And, you know, some of our previous guests that come to mind, I think. Richard Grenfell. Who else? I've just forgotten his name. [01:32:51] Speaker A: Off it goes. [01:32:53] Speaker B: Senior moment. Senior moment. But, you know, they offer works. Glen Lavender is an absolute master at lighting and I'd really love. He's a friend, but I know he would still charge me. But I'd really love to do one of his workshops. [01:33:08] Speaker A: Yeah. To watch a video. It's not the same. [01:33:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:14] Speaker A: You got to do it. [01:33:16] Speaker B: And, you know, I think it's something that when the time's right and I have the money to do a workshop, I think that's something I'd like to do, is just build up my skill set, build up my knowledge and understanding all the different ways that lighting can be applied in photography. For me, photography only. So, yeah, that's. We're on the same page. [01:33:35] Speaker A: I agree. I'm with you. Let me know what you're doing and maybe I'll pop down. [01:33:39] Speaker B: Oh, cool. Yeah, maybe I'll. Maybe I'll organize a workshop. [01:33:44] Speaker A: That'd be. Oh, that'd be awesome. I'll come to that. [01:33:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd love to do that. [01:33:48] Speaker A: Yeah. You just got to be hands on. In photography, the theory does not impact the brain. Like the practical lessons. [01:33:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep, exactly. And you need that muscle memory and the ability to be able to set up things in the dark, you know? [01:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:08] Speaker B: So. [01:34:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And you need. You need those. That muscle memory in huge pressure situations, like at an event when the performance is on and it's got 10 seconds to go and you need to capture the rest of it and you're not ready, like whatever. You have to know all your equipment and like clockwork, like automatic thinking. It's nice when you realize you do have some of that down in your. In your. Like. It's also the same with dogs. The dogs don't do what you tell them, really, but they also don't stay still. [01:34:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:49] Speaker A: And so you often have maybe four seconds to maybe two, maybe one. [01:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Last week, I think. I don't know if I mentioned this, but I think I did. I was in Tassie for a week. First couple of days was visiting my partner's family who all live in Launceston and they are all dog people and they all have dogs or rescues and trying to photograph. There was. Sasha's dad had two not Jack Russell fox terriers. [01:35:16] Speaker A: Oh, cute. [01:35:17] Speaker B: And they did not sit still until very late at night and trying to photograph them was like. I would get one in focus because they never left each other apart. They were jealous of each other. Whoever was getting company, you know, the other one would attack the one getting company. And trying to photograph them was just. It was almost impossible. I'd have one in focus and the other would be. Would have turned and darted off somewhere or. [01:35:44] Speaker A: Yeah, you've got to have. You've got to have treats and you've got to have treats just above the lens and then generally you have to tether them and then if you're outside, that's easier with a tree or something in the ground or something. But. Yeah, but they have to reach. If you're doing two dogs, they have to be tethered from the same point and then when they reach for the treat, they're at the same. On the same focal plane. [01:36:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. [01:36:13] Speaker A: Unless they're well trained, you've got no hope in hell if there are two of them to, you know. [01:36:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, these weren't. These weren't at all. And, you know, I was shooting. I was shooting wide open at 1.4 and I just. Yeah, it was that whole focal plane thing. I had to stop down a bit. [01:36:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:36:29] Speaker B: Just to get a bit more depth to get the second one. [01:36:31] Speaker A: But you. [01:36:32] Speaker B: As, you know, you don't get the same sort of subject separation that way. But. But it was an interesting experience and I thought, yeah, I don't want to be. I love dogs. Yeah. But I don't want to do formal dog photography. [01:36:45] Speaker A: Total learning curve. [01:36:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:36:48] Speaker A: Yeah. The tethering is a huge. A huge factor in making it something possible, something beautiful. [01:36:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. And so the choice to go with outdoor, predominantly outdoor pet photography, dog photography, shoes. Is that because you find that dogs are better to photograph when they're outdoors in nature, or is it. What is that? [01:37:17] Speaker A: I did. I did shoot studio for a while. I used my home, which has a big kitchen space and lots of light, and I just found it visually boring. [01:37:35] Speaker C: I. [01:37:36] Speaker A: That's not. That's not my aesthetic. I love to place a dog in a spectacular wow factor. Like if you've got my. My business card. Oh, no, it's not up there. Where is it? I'll show. So this was at a dog beach and look at the sky. [01:37:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:59] Speaker A: And. And I. I just thought a dog in a studio, that's easy. But a. But a dog with an incredible backdrop, that's real and not. And not digital or AI. That's hard. And, yeah, the dogs do. The dogs love outside. They've got loads of smells, so they're much more activated, which makes it harder. But you can also, like, I could turn that way and that way with the camera, and I get a different feeling in backdrop and setting. Right. So it's also better for your final output and what the owners will choose because there's variety. Like, I just. I just. I just got bored with the studio. I mean, not that I'm. Not that I reached the. The top level of studio skills at all. I just love. I just love nature. [01:39:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It goes back to that. That element of being in the outdoors. You grew up that way. You traveled a lot. You explored the world on foot often. [01:39:09] Speaker A: Explore the world on foot. [01:39:11] Speaker B: Well, you know, you go on hikes. [01:39:12] Speaker A: Yeah, no, I did. I did. You're right. You're right. Hey, are there any other international listeners? [01:39:20] Speaker B: Let me just have a quick one from New Jersey. [01:39:23] Speaker A: I just find that quite fascinating on. On that they're tuning in from around the world. It's so cool. [01:39:29] Speaker B: Let me just have a look. Rodney? No. Tristan is in Tokyo. Good morning from Tokyo. That's Tristan X. It is very cool. [01:39:41] Speaker A: I wonder if he lives there. [01:39:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Let us know if you're still listening. Tristan, are you. Are you. Are you a local or are you. Are you just traveling? Either way, I hate you for it because I really want to be in Japan right now. [01:39:53] Speaker A: Yeah. It's just on fire, isn't it, Greg? The whole of Australia is in Japan. Yeah. [01:40:00] Speaker B: Yeah. I do worry about overpopulation, you know. I'd like some of the tour. Sorry, over tourism. Not overpopulation, over tourism. I'd like some of the tourists to leave so I can enjoy it the way I want to. I don't think that's too. [01:40:12] Speaker A: Oh, no, you'll still find places. I was there in 2024. Oh, yeah. New Jersey. That's so cool. My dear, dear friend Liza is in New Jersey with her family as well. New Jersey is near New York. Yes. [01:40:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:40:27] Speaker A: How awesome. How exciting. Yeah. [01:40:32] Speaker B: You're saying you went to Tokyo, Japan? [01:40:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I went to Japan and we went. We went on big, big hikes, but there were places with no people. You will find them. Go to the national parks. They've got no people in them. [01:40:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. I've been four times, but haven't been back since Covered. [01:40:51] Speaker A: Where did you. What was your favorite place? [01:40:54] Speaker B: Look, Shibuya in Tokyo. [01:40:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:40:58] Speaker B: You know, I'm a street photographer at heart, and that. That kind of is the pinnacle of. In my view of street photography locations. I mean, I love all of Japan. I haven't been into the country much, like into The. Away from the big cities much. I did for a couple of days. Went on, like, a bit of a trip north of Tokyo on the train. But, yeah, and my partner, Sash, we're both very much. You know, we love everything about the Japanese culture and we both want to go, but might not be the right time to travel just now. Not for us, anyway. Half the world's on fire. We'll just sit this one out and wait and see. [01:41:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. [01:41:41] Speaker B: So. But, yeah, it's definitely. It's definitely on the cards. One day we'll get back there. She went in 2019. My last trip was 2019, but we weren't together then, and we want to go together at least once. [01:41:52] Speaker A: Oh, that's cute. How did you meet? [01:41:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Tinder. [01:41:57] Speaker A: Yep. I met. I met online, too. My beautiful partner. Hello, beautiful partner. I love you. [01:42:03] Speaker B: Oh, it's lovely. [01:42:05] Speaker A: Yeah, the online dating's really helped out, hasn't it? I'm so grateful. [01:42:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It was a really. I know this is way off photography topic, folks, but I'm sure many of you can agree. Can. Can understand. Yeah, I. I found it really odd because I. I'd been with the same person for 18 years, and then she became unwell and passed away rather quickly and. And then getting back into the dating scene. The whole dating world had changed, you know, all of a sudden. [01:42:35] Speaker A: Right. [01:42:36] Speaker B: Having to take selfies and, you know, write things about myself to attract something. You know, it was just all very. I mean, obviously it worked out. I'm delighted that it did. [01:42:48] Speaker A: Well done. [01:42:48] Speaker B: Yeah. It's just interesting. [01:42:50] Speaker A: It's hard to find a good one in that tech soup that. It is. So well done. [01:42:56] Speaker B: Yeah. How did we get onto that? [01:42:59] Speaker A: I don't know. [01:43:00] Speaker B: That was the biggest sideline ever. I'm just conscious of time. Let me ask you a question on Justin's behalf. Usually with every guest, he likes to ask if it was the zombie apocalypse, the world was ending. Okay. [01:43:17] Speaker A: Oh, I talk about my partner all the time. All the time. For real. [01:43:21] Speaker B: Good. Yeah. No, so do I, but. And you had to grab. You only had time to grab one camera and one lens to document the end of the world before you were consumed by the zombie hordes. What camera and lens would you grab? [01:43:41] Speaker A: See, my practical side would take the event lens 24 to 105 RF Canon f f 2.8 lens with my R5 mirrorless, however. [01:43:52] Speaker B: Yep. [01:43:55] Speaker A: I just want to take the 50 mil because I love it so much, but it's not practical if there's there's, there are 20, 000 zombies and then only two zombies. It's not going to work in the same way to catch the wide and then the close up. I guess, I guess, I guess I'd take the. No, I'd take the 50 mil. Gotta go with my gut. That's what life. [01:44:16] Speaker B: Gotta go with what you love. Absolutely. [01:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that was a great question. [01:44:22] Speaker B: Oh, cool. I'm glad he'll see it when he watches this back. You know that whole concept of pursuing what you love, you've mentioned that several times throughout today's episode and I think it's a really value sometimes it's a hard learned lesson, you know, to discover that actually I should have just been chasing what I loved the whole time or I parked what I loved and went into a different direction. And you know, people come back to it to that sort of, that their creative pursuits more often than not get parked for the sake of actually earning money. Which is very, very sad in the world we live in where AI is being developed to replace creative pursuits rather than the boring stuff. [01:45:06] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. [01:45:08] Speaker B: That's probably my biggest gripe with AI. But the concept of doing what you love I think is a really valuable lesson to hear from someone who, you know, you had a pivot point in your trajectory in your journey and that came at a time when you needed to, you know, make change and, and you stuck with a path of doing something that you loved. And I think there's a lot of value in that. I certainly believe that your images and your work, you know, represent that. And I'm sure your clients would say the same things. But just on behalf of all of us here, well, me because everyone else, thank you so much for today's time. [01:45:53] Speaker A: Thank you for having me sharing with [01:45:55] Speaker B: us your amazing journey and being very open and candid about the challenges faced. I think that's really important for visual creatives to be aware of, you know, challenges like mental health issues. [01:46:09] Speaker A: Oh my God. [01:46:09] Speaker B: More common than you think. [01:46:12] Speaker A: Creatives are much, much, much more likely to have mental health challenges. That's scientifically proven. Not my opinion, folks. [01:46:23] Speaker B: That's not on your mood board. [01:46:25] Speaker A: No, no, my mood board's in my head now, Greg. That's how comfortable I am with my mood board. But yeah, so if you're very creative and you have major ups and downs in any area, then you won't be alone. [01:46:37] Speaker B: Yep, yep, Most definitely. But fortunately, most artistic communities are supportive and embrace each other and look after one another. It's certainly what we try to emulate here at the camera life and with lucky straps because you know, when we support each other, everyone benefits and everyone does well out of it. [01:46:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Community is everything. [01:46:56] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. But thank you once again for your time today. Anything that people should keep an eye out that you've got coming up. [01:47:09] Speaker A: Definitely my Earth, Air, Fire, water, spirit, fine art, fashion meets landscape project that I'm so excited about. And then potentially to be confirmed, some zoo creativity. Yeah, I'm definitely animals, Animals, animals. Yeah, yeah. [01:47:30] Speaker B: What a terrible job you've got. [01:47:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I know, terrible. Thank you for having me, Greg. And very nice to meet you as well. I just went to call him Jason, but it's Justin, isn't it? [01:47:43] Speaker B: It is Justin, yeah, yeah, sorry, Justin. [01:47:45] Speaker A: Justin. And I loved, I loved having a deep chat. [01:47:50] Speaker B: Cool. Well, I think on that note it's a good place to wrap just before we go. I will say goodbye to some people but before I even do that I'm going to work out whether I can actually play the outro music correctly. [01:48:00] Speaker A: Excellent. [01:48:01] Speaker B: Without, you know, ruining everything. What have I got? I don't know if I can find it now. We'll just go old school, no music. [01:48:09] Speaker A: Okay, great. [01:48:10] Speaker B: Who are we going to thank? We've got just some quick catch up comments. Rodney said that the camera I was discussing is a Hannah mix. I think you might be right there, Nick. Thank you, Nick. Yeah, don't shut up about Fujifilm. [01:48:24] Speaker A: But. [01:48:26] Speaker B: And yes, Justin does have gas. He's had gas for as long as I've known him, to be honest. [01:48:31] Speaker A: Hilarious. [01:48:32] Speaker B: Oh, past guest here. And Scott Virtue. G' day, Anne. [01:48:36] Speaker A: It's a lady. Hi, Anne. I know there's the final Riddles Creek. Where's that? [01:48:43] Speaker B: Is that. It's kind of north west of Melbourne, I'm going to say. I don't know. Correct me if I'm wrong, Anne. We had a few weeks ago guys, that's really cool. We, we interviewed Anne a few weeks ago. Anne is a wedding photographer who shoots in Australia and often in Europe in the European season. But she's also a workshop operator. She does workshops for BFOP for the Bright Festival of Photography which will be out again this year. Good to see you, Anne. Philip says, need a long lens for a zombie. And followed up. Thanks Greg. Thanks Greg. And Annabelle and Justin, I suppose. [01:49:24] Speaker A: That's very funny. [01:49:26] Speaker B: And Scott Virtue again. Creatives are always their own worst critics. Yeah. Yep. From Paul. Thanks Greg and Annabelle. Thanks, mate. Great to see you Rodney. Again, very enjoyable show and Anne has said yes up in the Macedon ranges. [01:49:42] Speaker A: Wow. How dramatic. How awesome. [01:49:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a beautiful, beautiful part of the planet. Absolutely. But we will say goodbye here. Thank you everybody for watching. Just a reminder that we do this twice a week. Every Monday evening we have our random photography show, 7.30pm Australian Eastern Standard Time at the moment, and then every Thursday morning where we interview an amazing photographic guest and get to unpack a little bit just a smidge of their story and. And their journey. And obviously today has been one of those episodes that happens every Thursday, 9am Australian Eastern Standard Time. Please give us a thumbs up. It helps us out a lot. Don't forget to subscribe because that and tickle the bell icon so you'll get notified in your time zone when the Camera Life podcast is about to air. But yeah, we'll wrap it there and say thank you to everybody and we'll see you guys on Monday night for another random photography show. Bye, everybody. [01:50:37] Speaker A: Bye. [01:50:38] Speaker B: Be safe. Bye. [01:50:40] Speaker A: I don't know how to get off this. [01:50:42] Speaker B: No, no, no, you don't.