A conversation with Marcus Bell (EP188)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:25] Speaker B: G' day everybody. And welcome back to the Camera Live podcast. It is. Well, at least here anyway. It is Thursday the 4th of June. Yes, we're already. It's almost tax time. That's all I can think about. I can't escape that thought that it's almost tax time. I'm a little scared. But being a Thursday morning, we are here to talk shop with one of Australia's most widely recognized and awarded and applauded photographers. We are joined today by a grand master of photography, someone who the who has been recognized as one of the top 10 photographers in the world by American Photo. That's not a bad brag. Also a Lycra ambassador, a past BFOP instructor and also dabbles in some photojournalism, some fine art portraiture, landscapes and a whole bunch of commercial work. I'm out of breath. We are joined of course by Marcus Bell. Marcus, welcome to the show. [00:01:16] Speaker A: Hey, thanks Greg and Justin. I'm looking forward to the next couple hours just chatting with you guys. [00:01:21] Speaker C: Yeah, thanks for joining us. [00:01:23] Speaker B: It's our favorite time of the week. Marcus, thank you so much for joining us. And yes, anyone watching along who's been following us for a little while now, you will notice that Justin is back in the home office. He has returned from Bali. We'll get a very quick update on that from him in a moment. But and obviously Monday night we'll talk more extensively about it on our random photography show. That's 7:30pm on a Monday, Australian Eastern Standard Time. Marcus, let's get the, let's get the creative juices worked up. You've already had two coffees. I'm on my second. I think Justin might be on. He's got a bucket of coffee there. So let's get right into it. And if you're watching along at home, I hope you all sneakily at work. I hope that you've got an appropriate beverage too. Marcus, you're a multi disciplined photographer in that you dabble more than dabble. You practice a wide range of photography genres and styles. You know, on one hand you've got your photojournalism, your street photography, your fine art work that you do with portrait, landscape and on the other hand you've got your commercial work. So which came speaking specifically about your genres, which is the chicken and which is the egg, which came first for you, [00:02:40] Speaker A: funny enough. And probably the. Greg, probably the biggest thing that you've left out probably for the audience is my wedding work. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sorry. [00:02:49] Speaker A: And it's, it's all right. It's all right. It's all right. Like, it's, It's. It's probably like the thing that got me known and got me the foot in the door, like, in. In so many places in the world. And so I would say what it was. It was like I was really blessed to be, I guess, you know, like, come into contact with Doug Spout, who was running Image Gaming Gallery with Vicki and his mum Ruby at the time. And I was just really green, learning photography. And he just introduced me to a whole bunch of, like, different things. And the thing that really, you know, sort of stuck was as soon as he showed me, you know, Cardi Bressant's work and Elliot Erwart in the. The Magnum Group, I was just awestruck. And I think that's just been the catalyst of everything that sort of came after that. I've done even, you know, till today and. And probably, even, probably, you know, including Sagado and James Nachway and really that storytelling element that I was so drawn to and attracted to. So I was just sort of like, you know, tried a bunch of different, you know, things and I think. But it was really Doug that introduced me to that idea. And I mean, I think, like, too, like, sometimes, you know, photographers could be introduced to, you know, fashion or, you know, and gravitate that way. And I just, you know, for some reason, it was those raw moments that draw me in. So. So I guess the first part of my work was really, you know, highlighted about, you know, capturing the world, you know, and it's the way I was lucky enough to go through Europe for a period of time and, and just really document, you know, the way I saw that and then came back and that sort of really then set up, you know, my going forward. I think at the time when I. After coming back from Europe, I had one wedding booked, you know, and after being away for a while and. And then that got me into weddings and. And then I just sort of fell in love with it. And so I would say primarily I did start trying to be a landscape photographer. I totally sucked at it. I found it so difficult. One of the things, I guess, was about having, you know, finding a center of interest. And then I found it really difficult in the landscape to do that. But because of all that knowledge that I had and. And then what happened was I, you know, I started doing these weddings and putting the couple in the landscape and. Because I realized, well, that was my center of interest. It was like. It just seemed so obvious, but. But funny. Enough. It just hadn't really been done before and then people saw that, you know, and really gravitated to it and I guess a new style was born and. And then I end up winning all these awards overseas and. Yeah, and then things just sort of fast tracked from there on. [00:05:50] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's so. And I apologize for leaving that wedding. The list was quite long. Marcus. You know, I did my best and I ran out of breath. So thank you so much for sharing that with us. I think it's really interesting. I've been thinking a lot lately about the concept of genres, especially with new photographers. Let me ask a follow up question about genres. Do you think that trying to establish a genre too early can be detrimental to what you could possibly achieve in [00:06:18] Speaker A: the future or do you think photographers [00:06:21] Speaker B: should dial into a specific style? [00:06:25] Speaker A: I don't know. Like there's probably multiple aspects of this question because first off, I think, you know, when you're starting at photography it's, it's can be quite nerve wracking and you asking yourself so many questions, you know, who am I and what do I have to offer? And you know, and it is my style. How, how do I even create a style and things like that, I think they're probably more difficult because so, so probably I find most photographers don't generally go down a certain track to start with because that question would be so big. I didn't realize what I was doing with everything that I was learning every step of the way. Ended up sort of directing me into a star without even realizing it. And even, you know, many, many years into it, you know, people could pick my images and, but, and it, so it meant that I had a style but I even, I even didn't know what the style was but other people could see it. So it was, it was quite interesting to, you know, he get feedback on that sort of stuff. [00:07:38] Speaker B: Yeah. All right, before we, before we roll back the clock and talk about your earlier inspirations and before we even say good day to the chat, we are joined by Justin Castles. He pays the bills and keeps the lights on. So thanks for showing up today, boss. How was Bali? Just give us a very, very quick 60 second update. [00:07:57] Speaker C: It was awesome. It was great. An amazing month. I didn't take as many photos as I would like to have, but I got some ones I'm really proud of. So it's a bit of a. I'm coming home with two mindsets. One was like I really should have worked harder and shot a bit more. And then the other One I'm like, oh, I got a. I got a couple of images that I'm. I'm happy with, so. Which is very hard for me. So, yeah, it was great, and it's great to be back. I see Philip Johnson in the chat said, omg, Justin's back from his overseas exile. Yeah. [00:08:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:28] Speaker B: So the AO didn't catch you or the ato? [00:08:31] Speaker C: No, no, no. They've let me back in for tax time. I think specifically they were worried that I might. I might miss tax time. Okay. Either I. So, Marcus, I. Tiny bit of backstory. I was a wedding photographer. I'm not anymore, but I was for about 10 years. I started late and I think. So I picked up a camera for the first time probably in about 2011. And then Jim, who's in the chat and sometimes comes on this show, but at the moment he's a busy man working today, probably helping with camera straps. We shot weddings together from about 2013. Yeah, for about 10 years. And I was definitely aware of your work and followed your work amongst a lot of other photographers that were an inspiration. But I didn't realize until I was doing research for this show how much your specific. What. What seems to be getting called or was getting called back then, weddings, Scapes, how much it influenced what we did, because we. That that was one of our main sort of parts of our day that we did was trying to find a spot to. To make the couple really small, put them in a. A vista or part of the. The venue, something like that that was memorable for them, something they could print big on their wall that wasn't a giant picture of just their faces or, you know, them looking at the camera. And I had no idea that that was. That was sort of something that I believe you pioneered, or if not you and a handful of other people maybe at a similar time. Is that the case? [00:10:10] Speaker A: Yeah, probably. I mean, it's hard to know exactly, only because, you know, it was pre Internet, not in pre Internet. It was like. [00:10:18] Speaker C: It was. [00:10:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it was pre Instagram and things like that. So. [00:10:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:23] Speaker A: But I guess what happened. I was really fortunate. I mean, I. I just. That style just developed from a. I guess my entire background of, like, landscapes and then that documentary sort of style. And Because. And then I just sort of combine the two and then. And it was very early on, I was a really good friend. Mercury Megalitis invited me to speak at wppi and. And it was funny because it was like my first son, Jackson, was just born, like, the week before then. I was Flying off there and. And talk with, you know, four other Aussies, you know, with Mercury and. And then at the same time I just entered these awards and then their awards and then I ended up winning five major awards that year. And so it was a bit crazy because I came back with all these cameras and money and these trophies and. And everything like that. And. And so then after that, things just blew up. Um, so it was just sort of one of those opportunities in life that I really got to thank Mercury for because it just put me on the map and. And then that just led to all the destination weddings that I did and, and everything. So it was. It was interesting sort of taking a chance because, you know, I had the hard talk with, you know, obviously this is playing six months ahead and had the hard talk, you know, with my Penny and, you know, look, there's opportunity. But, you know, it's around the same time that Jackson's, you know, like, our son's going to be born or, you know, a kid. And. And it was the first time for obviously for both of us, and so to take that gamble was like. It was a big thing and. But it was like, ended up being amazing, so. But yeah, you're going back to it. It's just. That's what. What ended up happening. Yeah. Yeah. [00:12:17] Speaker C: Wow. It's. And. And that's. Right. So it was. So that was in. What did you say, 2003, 2001 somewhere there. [00:12:24] Speaker A: 2004. That was two. I went over to speak at WPPI for the first time and enter those awards. And I think it was the year before that I won Australian Wedding Photographer of the Year for the first time. I think it was. And it was with those. With those images. In fact, actually the portfolio, you know, had everything that I loved about. Love about weddings. It's like that landscape with the couple in it, you know, a beautiful portrait of a, you know, a dad in a photojournalistic moment of like a grandma with the daughter. And then also the. The photo doc sort of style of, you know, this couple just with people outside of this corner church, like in Sandgate, that. Yeah, so it's. Yeah, so it was sort of cool. [00:13:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I. I can very. I can safely say that it. That sort of work paved the way for. For what we did, you know, coming in at 2013-2012-2013-2014. We were just sort of hungry to learn and. But at that point there was, yeah, this whole Internet world of. Of stuff. There was. I don't know if you remember. I don't even know if it's still around. There was this thing called like fearless photographers and. [00:13:42] Speaker A: Oh yeah, yeah, it's still around. [00:13:44] Speaker C: It's still around. Yeah. So it, yeah, it was, it was tons of that kind of work from people from all over the world and you know, you trawl through that and see cool things that people had done and, and we took our, our knowledge of lighting and things like that and tried to apply it to our weddings. But yeah, it was, was all very much influenced and same with the documentary style through the day. Do something cool at sunset. Yeah, it was, it was very much that, that exact thing. But we started 10 years later and it was already, you know, it was already kind of an established method for working in the wedding industry. Whereas it sounds like when you were doing was quite left of center, something new and different. Yeah, something. [00:14:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I think the funny thing is when I was starting out and starting to, I didn't even realize I was pushing any boundaries. I was just doing what I love doing. So I would have plenty of photographers, you know, come up that quite well established and said oh, you know, look, you know, it's nice what you're doing but it's not going to last. You know, like it, you know, like that, it's not going to cut it. So it's funny, you know, like, you know, you know, like, and it wasn't. And I never, and I just said oh, you know, to all that, thank you for the advice and I appreciate, I just love doing this and this is why I'm sort of doing it. So there was no arrogance or anything involved in it. But, but I guess like people, you know, my advice for anyone starting out or you know, have a vision or, and things like that, just go for it because I think that's what's so fresh. I, I mean I still get asked you know, today, you know, would you become, you know, like someone might just sort of be coming into the industry and say oh, you know, I want to leave, become a full time photographer and things like that. And, and you know, it's easy to say oh, you know, it's such a hard industry like that. But, but one of the things that I'm always very conscious of is, you know, people bring in something new and fresh, you know, into a space, you never know that that just might just blow up, you know, I mean, so, so even though it is a difficult industry these days to make a full time career out of, but I don't discourage anyone for, you know, trying and, and getting into it. Because you never know. They could be the next big thing, you know? So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:16:07] Speaker C: I think that's also. So we had Nick Carver on the show. He's a landscape photographer from the US and that was one of the things he said. He just said in a different way. He said, if you have an idea and something that you want to do, even if it seems like it's probably not a great, you know, it's not going to be super popular and get lots of clicks or make a lot of money or something like that. He said you've got to scratch that creative itch because you've got to get it out of your head. You just got to do it. And it'll either work or it won't work, but either way, you've scratched the itch. [00:16:43] Speaker A: Totally. Yep. [00:16:45] Speaker B: Yeah. I think that's good advice. Justin, the people have missed you. Will you please say good morning to them? [00:16:50] Speaker C: Okay, I will. Good morning, Philip Johnson. Good to see you. Robert Varda. Good morning, Australia from New Jersey, where the sun is on the downswing. Oh, yeah. Nighttime. It's probably getting warmer over there than it is here now. It's. It's chilly in Bendigo. Digifrog. Good morning. Rodney Nicholson. Yeah, I've got my hoodie on, Rodney. It is chilly. Stuart Lyle. Sneaking a listening listen at work. That's good. Good job. Stay low down under the desk. Felicity Johnson. Morning. No bird watching today. Too wet and cold. Get to listen to Marcus live. Yay. Yes, you do. And guess if you're listening and you happen to be here with us live right now on YouTube, you can just ask a question in the live chat and we'll bring it up and. And Marcus will either answer it or say, no, I don't want to answer that. But either way, we'll bring it up and we'll see. So you get to be part of the show. Samantha Olson. Good morning. Lucinda Goodwin. Good to see you. Julie Powell says, welcome back, Justin. Well, thank you. [00:17:49] Speaker A: Who else? [00:17:50] Speaker C: Phil Thompson. Good morning or welcome back home, Justin Again. Oh, everyone loves it. I'm never going away. Greg's done a great job while you were away. I know. He's been keeping. Keeping the lights on and making sure everyone's happy. Greg Stubbings. G', Day, trendsetters. The plumber. Matt. Good morning. Here we go. Who's this? C Muskay 7664. I wish Marcus would stop saying he's lucky. He has worked so hard and remains the most humble, gentle, loveliest man I. How lovely that's really sweet. Dennis Smith, School of Light. Morning legends. David Dare Parker. Always enjoy your company, brother Marcus. David Dare Parker, I believe, was the one that introduced us, Greg to Marcus. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Quick little story about that. So Marcus was a Beef up instructor last year. That was your first beef up, wasn't it? [00:18:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it was and I loved it. What if people out there haven't gone before you got to go? [00:18:54] Speaker B: It's. [00:18:54] Speaker A: It was incredible. [00:18:56] Speaker C: That's the, that's the bright festival of photography, which is in October this year. But before you get too excited, it's sold out in, I don't know, 11 seconds. And I think there's a, there is a wait list for tickets because people buy them early and then sometimes life gets in the way. So you can probably still get on the wait list, but it'll be hard. But I would be very ready for BEFOP 2027 if it's something you're interested in. [00:19:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Anyway, most definitely. So, yeah, Beef up was a wonderful, wonderful weekend. It was a huge success for Lucky Straps and the Camera Live podcast. We got really involved and good news is we're getting involved again this year. We will be starting our planning discussions with the BFOP team early next week. But it was at the, the after party, which was kind of like for all the instructors, the people that set it all up, the administrators. We had a little after party at Nick's house up on the side of the mountain and David de Parker, who's who I've been fanboying over for quite some time for his photo documentary style, introduced me to someone else that I've had been fanboying over, introduced me to Marcus while we stood around the fire and had a chat about our work. And yeah, that was the first time or introduced us. That was the first time that we, we caught up with you. What, what was the biggest takeaway for you from, from that Beef up experience? [00:20:21] Speaker A: Not meeting me. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Not meeting me. We don't have to talk about that now. [00:20:25] Speaker A: But I was definitely Justin. I think it was Dustin. He stole the show. I would definitely say it was the community. I think, you know, since like the A PP sort of, you know, dissolved, you know, many years ago, even though it's starting to come back again now. But I think that's what how industry is, is missing. The greatest is community. And I think that's, you know, based on so many other things, you know, with social media and everything like that that was coming forward and, but, but being there at be, it was like the most. It was like welcome. Being like getting a welcome home party, you know what I mean? For every individual that came there. It was just incredible. Like, you know, loose in some regards. But that was like, its beauty about it. It was, it was very informative, you know, it was very inviting. Like, I, I mean, I couldn't, I can't, you know, say more like, you know, complimentary things because it was just incredible. Like, and I, like I was saying before we got on live, I, I wish they would just sort of, if they could tour it around the country somehow and, and bring that community to every, you know, corner of Australia would be so incredible for people's, you know, mental health, their. Their careers. They're just. Their enjoyment of photography, you know, everything. It was just huge. [00:21:49] Speaker C: I don't know. Yeah, mental health would go if they had to. If they had to do that around the country. They always exactly have. They. They're so proud of what they do and they, and they put in so much work. But they look so zapped on, like on Sunday night. It must be. [00:22:04] Speaker A: Well, I think they were zapped. I think they were literally. [00:22:07] Speaker B: Literally. Yeah. [00:22:08] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, that's true. I forgot. They got electrocuted on stage. [00:22:12] Speaker B: That's right. [00:22:13] Speaker C: Not, not. It wasn't an accident. They did. It was intentional. Don't worry, people. It wasn't an accident. Electrocution. Yeah, that was. [00:22:19] Speaker B: It was just with a sheep fence transformer. The little zap they give lives. [00:22:24] Speaker C: Yeah, but with no, no fence to like absorb some of the power they were holding on to. Just the terminals. Yeah. Oh, man, that was funny. [00:22:33] Speaker B: That was a funny day. [00:22:36] Speaker C: You know what, what else is cool about BFOP is all the vendors and camera brands all getting amongst it as well together. And it doesn't seem. There's probably like some, some light competitiveness, but it's not. They're all in the same room hanging out. They're all having a beer together afterwards. All the different, you know, Canon and, and Leica and it was actually, it was really cool to see Leica there because that. Yeah, that was their first year as well. [00:23:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:04] Speaker C: Which is. Was pretty special. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Now, speaking of Leica, Marcus, I have a question for you. And this is the sloppiest segue I'm ever going to do. You're a Leica ambassador, you're a Leica photographer. And you. How long have you held that. That rank, shall we say? [00:23:22] Speaker A: Oh, it was probably like about six years ago. And we're technically not called ambassadors anymore. We're just called like a photographer's and you know, and it just came about. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So everyone can be a like a photographer. [00:23:40] Speaker C: I can be a like a photographer. [00:23:41] Speaker B: It's nothing special actually. Most. [00:23:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's the thing like, you know, like don't have to get held up on it on a name or anything like that because it's just sort of like what you feel really comfortable in shooting. And that came about where man, like about like 15 years ago, 20 years ago, like a good friend, Parker Jfister, he lives in Asheville in the US Got me interested in understanding about vintage camera gear and lenses and you know, large format, everything to do with photography and was just sort of, you know, and that progress just sort of. And I've always had Leica M cameras ever since I first photographed, you know, my first wedding. So I've got a, you know, a nice catalog of, you know, vintage lenses and, and so one the things that like, I think as photographers we can get caught up on and I certainly did there was. Forgot what it was like a benchmark of lenses. And it was. Everything was about edge to edge sharpness and, and, and things like that in these reports. And. And then I thought, oh, maybe I need that lens, you know. Oh, that looks incredible. You know, it's getting like 98 out of 100 score, you know, and, and then I would try and go, oh, what's going on? Like, this is nice. It's like technically amazing, but like it like it lost. There's no soul. It was just very clinical and, and things like that. So it was interestingly because of Parker is that I started to understand about vintage lenses and how. And then also even Nikon brought out a, a 58 mil for their F mount. Like a G lens. Like I had that. Yeah, it's one of the most amazing lenses. And it got caned like, you know, when it came out, people said it's soft, it's horrible. Oh my God. It was probably like one of the most incredible lenses. But like I had like, you know, I've always had like a, like a knocked and it just did something similar or different and it's got this own beauty and, and man, like, you know, so I think that's what happened is that like, you know, we can all get caught up in marketing and everything like that and then, and I was like a, you know, like an ambassador for, for Nikon and you know, and the people there were just so incredible and everything like that. But I think what happened was I ended up just going over to Leica because of just the feel of the lenses that it gave me and, you know, the look that I was looking for in the work that I wanted to produce. And then they approached, like, I was already, you know, shooting, like, her and everything like that. And then they just approached me and said, you know, would you be interested in coming along? And. And then I actually said, like, you know, it would just sort of depend on. Would it be all right if I ended up needing to pick up another camera one day just to shoot something for a client that is specifically. And would that sort of breach anything? And they said, no, we're happy for you to shoot whatever. And. And I think it was because they gave me permission to shoot whatever. It's funny, ever since that day, I've only shot Leica. But it was because, like, they said, you know what? We don't, you know, really mind. They weren't saying that you had to, you know, just only be this person. Then it gets freedom to be the photographer. I want to be, like, you know, moving forward. And then, so that's how, like, you know, my relationship with Leica started. And one of the things that, like, I do love, like, I got to go over a couple years ago to the head office and, you know, remember, like, around the M9 came out, I was hearing these stories about where the staff weren't getting paid and things like that. They were just doing it. They were turning up because, you know, they were doing it because out of the love for the company and things like that, and. And it was sort of like an urban myth at the time. And I was able to ask some of the staff that have. Were, you know, on the production line, but now are actually in senior roles, you know, and I was talking about that to them. And so, yeah, it was definitely true. We'd actually, you know, there was times when we were getting paid in sausages, you know, and. And things like that. Yeah. And then, like, I was. But from that TR came away was like. It was just. I was invited into a family. And sometimes people see this, like a, you know, company is this huge conglomerate or, you know, it's very prestigious or, you know, this and all that, but at the end of the day, it's just very genuine people that just have a big love for photography, love for their company and. And a family, you know, and I think that's what's really sort of, you know, cool about the Leica brand. Yeah. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Nice. [00:28:29] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's so cool to hear you talk about that 58 Nikon, because, yeah, we. We Jim and I basically had one of those glued to our cameras for a long time. But I almost always shot at like F 2.2 and above. [00:28:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:46] Speaker C: When you did open it wide up, it was like, it was just, it was soft compared to other lenses, but it just had this look that was even at F4. Like it just looked great. I don't know. It was bizarre. [00:28:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:59] Speaker C: I sort of regret selling it because I've still got some film F mount bodies and I'm like, that would be perfect. So I'm keeping an eye on the second hand market. But they, they haven't, they don't seem to have dropped their value. [00:29:11] Speaker A: They seem to be sticking had I. [00:29:13] Speaker C: So. Whoops. Anyway. [00:29:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:16] Speaker A: It is a lens I do regret selling as well. [00:29:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:29:20] Speaker C: It's one of those ones. I love that. Yeah. That Leica don't. Aren't stressed about you shooting other things. It's kind of definitely makes it feel very authentic to be an ambassador when you're not, you're not like. And I understand why the brands would have to say, hey, no, you can't be seen shooting. You know, if you're a Canon shooter, you can't be seen shooting Nikon or whatever. I understand that for their business purposes, but it feels very authentic that they didn't, they're not worried if you do for one job. I think what was it like that [00:29:48] Speaker A: what was important for me was like, you know, is that like that I had creative control as a photographer still and then I wasn't hemmed in and, and that's what I mean is too like, because I haven't been hemmed in. Like I just have just shot Leica and their lenses and, and plus like I've got a whole bunch of vintage lenses that I use occasionally for different project, you know. And so. But yeah, I think that that was the beauty about, you know, the relationship that I have. [00:30:19] Speaker B: Awesome. Let's, let's roll back the clock a little bit more. I'm really keen to understand and learn from you. What were your earliest inspirations to become a photographer? You know, was it someone at school or a family member that inspired you? What, where did that origin story begin for you? What was, what were your inspirations? [00:30:39] Speaker A: Well, I guess there's like a serious aspect to it, but then there's also like a really embarrassing and fun aspect to, to that too. Let's start with the serious. Start with the fun bit. No, no, because. [00:30:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:50] Speaker C: All right. [00:30:50] Speaker A: Like, I don't know, like I was, I don't know 14, 15, 15 years old. Like I had a crush on a teacher and, and at school like half the rest of the other half of the class did, you know, and, and she said oh look, you know, like I like photography and I'm going to do these photography things anyone else, you know. And I thought, ah, you know, my dad's got a camera, I'll, I'll put my hand up, you know, like just anything to, you know, to do it. And so I just started picked up the camera in that way and, and it was really because just to, you know, to make a connection, you know, with a teacher. So it was terrible. But funny enough though, years later I heard that that teacher, that teacher ended up actually getting dismissed from like a relationship with, with a kid from the school. Really? [00:31:47] Speaker B: Were you jealous? Were you jealous you missed, you missed the signal? [00:31:54] Speaker A: I wouldn't have known what to do anyway, like to save myself. I'm so naive. So, so that was hilarious. So the serious side was like years later I ended up, you know, like leaving school because my dad got ill and, and then I ended up just getting, finding myself in, in the corporate world. Even though like my, my, my dad was more like blue collar worker and working in like plastic factories and a foreman and, and things like that. And, but then I, I, I don't know if it was through and he ended up, you know, getting brain cancer. And, and so what happened was like, you know, I was probably 21 and I was already working for five years in banking and I was completely lost. I didn't know what I wanted to, to do with my life or I was just really not mish. I was miserable at work, I was loving life outside of work. And then I just sort of picked up the camera again and it was. My dad used to be a photographer at, in his, in his time and he left me his camera and, and it was that camera that I used with from school and I hadn't touched it since. And so when I picked up the camera again, I just connected with it and I think it was in a way of like connecting with my dad, which, which in turn ended up really sort of highlighting and probably inspiring my wedding, a lot of my inspiration wedding work. And because then I found what this incredible connection was with feelings and emotions and our own life experiences that, you know, each of us go through and how we could then connect that with someone else's lives on a wedding day and capture really meaningful moments for those people. So I was going to weddings and looking at these sons and their dads going up to them after the ceremony and hugging them and saying like how proud they were and you know, and capturing those. And I was just so compelled to capture those moments because I really, it was important for me to show them like how important that moment was. So even though like for me it was like a moment that I knew that I would never ever get to experience in, in my life and except like, I think things, you know, will change and, and this I guess is the journey of life that you learn a lot of things as you go along and. But one of the things I, you know, I would never get to experience that with my dad, but I didn't want my clients to miss out on that. And so that became the form, you know, the foundation of my wedding work and, and also my life as a, as a photographer. So, so as soon as I started picking up the camera and connecting, I found a course, you know, at Image Gallery in South Brisbane. And it just happened to be run by one of the really great, you know, legends I think of, you know, our community and our industry, you know, here in Australia and his family, you know, with his mum, Ruby and, and his partner Vicki and that they gave me something that I don't think they realized just how incredible the, what they taught me and, and, and also just led me. They didn't say you got to do it this way or that way. They just sort of put ideas in my head and, and then that just led to certain, you know, things as well. And so that's how I, you know, I became a photographer and I was able to eventually leave, you know, like my full time career and I was, you know, I was doing it, you know, like two full time jobs as a photographer and you know, in banking and. But I don't regret my time in banking, you know, because they taught me so much about customer service and running a business and, and those sort of, you know, aspects and even worth ethic. I hated working for the bank. But it's funny, you know, once you find something that you love doing, like, you know, it was like, it was really nice that person, you know, that, that mentioned about, you know, about me saying I was lucky and. But it really is, it's been like hard, you know, working my ass off all the time. Even now, like, you know, I'm just always working but I don't see it as working. I just, but I put everything into it and I think that what I've learned along the way, if you, if you want to be successful at something then you just Got to give it a red hot go and, and put everything into it. [00:36:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:42] Speaker C: What's the saying? The harder I work, the luckier I get. [00:36:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, so true. [00:36:48] Speaker C: You know, there's so much to dig into and I do want to find out about like the early years of your business which, that the studio impressions, which is your, your wedding photography business. It's been around for over 25 years which is, which is quite fun for the people that were saying that that that style of photography wouldn't last. That's a, that's a pretty impressive tenure for any business. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:16] Speaker C: Let alone an industry that's been through all sorts of ups and downs and changes from both the side of things in terms of cameras and things like that, film to digital to ubiquitous mobile phones and what do they call them now? The people that film weddings on the phones and then put reels up. What are they called? [00:37:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:37:33] Speaker C: Wedding influencers, creators. Lots of changes and then lots of changes in terms of economic, covert, all sorts of stuff. So to last that long is, is an absolute, just amazing feat in itself. But before I find out about that I really, I want to just go back again. Your, that that's how your photography come about. Were you creative as a child? Would you. Or did you, would you describe yourself as creative? Because so you ended up in banking and I know when I was at school I was the furthest thing from, from creative. I didn't understand what art was. I had a friend who always did art classes and he got A's all the time and he did these projects that I just didn't understand what he was talking about, where they came from. To me, they just, I was like this just looks like a weird kind of like you've just stuck stuff together and then written a, written made up stuff about it. I didn't understand, I had no idea what art was. I knew what, what, what you know, they said it was but I didn't know how to make it. Did you understand art when you were younger? [00:38:36] Speaker A: Not really. I, it's funny, you know, like I wish I could draw but I can't draw to save myself. And I, I think that's why like I love using a camera and even like actually, you know, one of the things that I learned like I was during COVID with some downtime, you know, I was inspired by digital artists that where they, you know, literally do just start with a blank screen or a blank canvas and, and then how they create something that's so three dimensional, you know, just using things I Mean, one of my favorite artists is Jeffrey Smart and, you know, just so incredible. And when you go see his work, how lifelike and photographic. But it's on another level because there's detail that's in just sort of this three dimensional aspect where it just jumps off, you know, the wall. You know, like, I'm always inspired by that and. But like, unfortunately at school, yeah, I could never get it. I mean, it was funny, you know, where I think in my brain, I think I see things and I don't know if it's like formulas or, or whatever, but I would be even in meetings at the bank and, you know, I would come up with these ideas that, you know, and. And just see this like, well ahead of time and from doing the work and, you know, and going through. And then I would be in the meetings and I would suggest, you know, what if we miss this step and because that's getting doubled up and did this and all that we would have, would be able to do that step within, you know, four steps rather than 20 steps. And in the process, because. And then achieve the same result, but in just such a much faster time. But. And then I pretty much would say in the meaning, and then you wouldn't need this person or this person. So I would just like see this, you know, and then. But not realizing and thinking it through that, I just sort of said, like, we actually don't need my boss, you know, in the future, that person either. And you know, so creatively wise, I would just, I. I could just see things, you know, and I guess that's how like, you know, you know, with the wedding photography of, you know, not thinking about it and just doing it, like, you know, sometimes like in the bank would get me into trouble, even though I was trying to, you know. Yeah. To be good. [00:41:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:09] Speaker C: Well, just to follow on from that then, because obviously you are an artist. Do you remember the first time that you thought of yourself as an artist? [00:41:19] Speaker A: No, I don't know. Like, yeah, it's funny because I don't know, like, even like, because Doug, I think, you know, would talk about this, you know, about being an artist and the way he would always see it as he's just sort of like a painter of light and things like that. And so, I don't know, it's funny. It's. I've always sort of struggled with it throughout my. Most of my career, but until I started realizing, you know, when you really simplify everything back down, is that really an artist is just, you know, it's an expression of oneself that you're sharing with other people. So therefore, like, you know, in, in fact, everyone is an artist. You know, when you bring it down to something that's really simple. [00:42:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with that. And it's interesting. Is it because it's taking me for my, the stuff that I do, my street work, it's taken me so long to recognize that, that I'm an artist, that I actually produce things that people like to look at and they get meaning from it. And, and I wonder if that's a, if that's a failing of. Maybe not the industry, certainly maybe in education spaces, but where do you think that there could be improvements in the way, you know, up and coming photographers identify themselves as being actual artists? Do you think that there's, there's an opportunity there? [00:42:49] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I'll definitely. I, I think, I think, you know, at the end of the day, like, you know, if I look at my history and the way, like, I see the world is based on all the experiences that I've had. So it, I mean it, for me, it's what's so beautiful about understanding even the three of us here and you know, and everyone in the audience listening is that everyone has their, their own eye and it's based on who they are as a person that, you know, everything. That's who they are, you know, and so therefore, like, I think, you know, really in the broader community, everyone has that, you know, and. Yeah, so how that can be changed, like, you know, I think it's really just sort of, you know, owning it. And I, I think that will happen because I think one of the, the good things about, you know, social media and Instagram and, and Tick Tock and, and everything like that is that, you know, people blow up now, you know, and, and they, it's because they've got something really cool and interesting to say. So even like, you know, you would think of, you know, content creators and, you know, they're all artists as well, because it's sort of like a, it's an art form in itself to be able to get noticed. And then really that's what, you know, art is about. It's about either making yourself notice or, you know, the story and, you know, that you're trying to express to be noticed and to share things like that. So [00:44:20] Speaker C: I hadn't thought about it in that way that it's, it's just a different medium, but they're just trying to make people think something, feel something and. [00:44:27] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's sort of Pretty cool. [00:44:31] Speaker C: It is cool. [00:44:32] Speaker B: It is. When it comes to career highlights for you, there's many that we've looked at, we've researched, but I'm really interested to understand your position as a Grandmaster of Photography. How did that, that particular title come about? How did that fall into place for you? [00:44:51] Speaker A: I think that's probably like, you know, probably the one that I'm probably most proud of because in, in some ways it's like a, like, I don't know, I, I don't know what you could compare it to. But so much there's so many steps into that is involved over a long period of time of, through the app of entering awards and certain levels and awards that you had to do. And so, and so it was probably like over I guess a 15 year or 10 year span of. And the awards process in themselves is like an incredible process. So because you're, it's all about sort of looking at yourself and thinking about, well, what could you do better or not what you could do better, but how can you push the envelope or, but for the right reasons, not just to win an award, but really just to further your career. Not furthering your career, but furthering your, you know, your photography to a whole new level. And I think that's what I loved most about the awards was always pushing yourself. Sure, there was like the, the, the aspects if you didn't do as well. You know, like the, the famous saying is that, you know, you always send in four golds but you might have got, you know, four silvers instead and things like that, but there's always that reflection. So I, I think what about that whole process is that you learn so much every year, you know, and then it sort of gave you a benchmark to, to move forward and, and I think that's what becoming a Grandmaster was, achieving certain goals over a long period of time. And I think it's the process of every step of the way that makes you a much better photographer and a better person and a better creator. And you know, an artist is going through that process. So I think that's why, you know, personally, like I would say that would be my personal achievement of becoming a Grandmaster is because of, of everything it gave me along the way. [00:47:08] Speaker C: Journey. [00:47:09] Speaker A: Yep. [00:47:10] Speaker B: Bruce Morris just jumped in the chat. Okay, Brucie. Grandmaster is so damn hard and so much work to get. And follow up. You should be proud of that one, mate. Yeah, yeah, I think we all agree you should be proud of. Now when you introduce yourself to people, people do you start with I Am a grandmaster or it's grandmaster to you. How does that, how does that, you know, do you get any perks out in society with that title? [00:47:40] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. You know, like you go to the Macca's, drive through and you say I'm Grandmaster and you, you know, I think you get the grand Happy Meal in return. But so, but it's, it's funny, you know, like, I guess like, like at the end of the day a lot of the time, like I, I am quite sure I'm shy, you know, about like my achievements. But then you know, as you also know that you gotta just embrace it as well. Because if people don't know about you, you know what I mean? Like, you could be like, I see it so many times, like so many great photographers, you know what I mean? And yeah, and it's sort of like, you know, sometimes that the world best kept secret. So it's always a balance with myself, like trying not to, I don't know, like, you know, voice like what, who I am and what my achievements are. I think for me they're more personal achievements. But then, you know, in a way you've got to sort of share that out as well because for some people it's important, for some clients it's important, important to have that. [00:48:51] Speaker B: I was going to ask about that, you know, how much of a, of a benefit that is when you are trying to attract new work, new clients, or even just keep your old clients on board. How much of that success do you share with them? [00:49:05] Speaker A: Funny enough, I hardly share anything with anyone. And it goes back and you know, like, so there was a time where I was just traveling the whole time time, like, you know, like for work and everything like that. And, and I've got like such a great community and a friend, you know, around me and, and this is going back like maybe 15 years or 10 years. And I remember a friend said, oh, you know, he was talking about not me, but other photographers. He goes, oh look, I just feel like I'm just looking at everyone's just incredible lives that this photographer's gone here, this photographer's gone there and, and then, you know, everyone's everywhere except like him and, and he's just such an incredible photographer. And I was listening to what you're saying and I was thinking, you're right. Like, you know, it's like you're looking at everyone's highlight reel and the world just looks amazing from everyone else's perspective. And then when you look at yourselves, you go, well, why Aren't I traveling and why aren't I doing this? But I do really great work and, and things like that. And so it's funny, I just stopped posting where I was, you know, because like, I felt guilty in a way. Like, it was like, you're showing off. And in some ways, like, I think by doing that was. It's a bit of a detriment. Yeah. You know, because I think when you look at other people's Instagram reels or, you know, highlights and stories, it's all about what they're doing, how incredible their life is, and that they're in this, this country, that country and they're working for this client and that client. And, and I guess what, one of the things that I know is that, like, that's really powerful, you know, because other people see that and they go, I want to work with that photographer. But then I guess it's like the other side of it is that there's a lot of friends and, and people that I know that where they, they've got great careers and they're great photographers. Photographers. And you know, and I don't know, it's sort of like I struggle with it because I, you know, I don't want to be big noting what I'm doing or whatever because I know how it can affect other people and other people see that, you know, so it's a, it's a, a sort of like a, like a love hate relationship with like, you know, socials and things like that. And it's not because I don't like sharing. I think it's because sometimes, you know, when as a collective we're, we're sharing like it can, it affects people in the wrong way, not sometimes in a positive way. [00:51:44] Speaker C: Yeah. And then, and then like you say, or even so Jim just commented here, traveling, work, traveling for work can often be quite lonely, which is outside of the highlight reel. And obviously you're not going to put poor posts up saying, oh, you know, having a, having a day, feeling lonely in Bali or whatever, because that, that's probably going to get even less, even less of a good response than posting your highlight reel from Bali. But yeah, people don't, people don't see the full picture of, of how much you miss out on, you miss out on like a family event or something because you're working overseas to shoot a wedding. I know that, that's, I know I wasn't doing destination weddings, but the main reason I stopped doing weddings was it seemed like every time something important come up, I Already had a wedding booked from 18 months prior. And I just felt like that, that beat me down after a while and I just needed a break from that. And that's the stuff that you don't see when people are posting. Yeah, I mean, you know, I'm in the melda of shooting a wedding and you're like, yeah, but they're also not on their best mates bucks party, you know. [00:52:51] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:52:52] Speaker C: And they'll never get a chance to do that again. But it's. That's just like, that's the life you choose. But yeah, that's the other side of it. [00:53:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, totally. I mean, the other side. Like, I mean, I look at other careers that face those same situations and look at how hard chefs work, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you know, they go out often to the markets super early, you know, and then laid in the kitchen, you know, doing service to the. The wee hours of the night, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, like, I, I do struggle with it and I, I think it's a very important fact for, for photographers to think about, especially, you know, for weddings. You know, you often do miss out, like, on a lot of, you know, your own personal life, you know, events, you know, as a result. But, you know, it's sort of trying to find a balance and, you know, and, and I, I don't know, you know, in. In some, like, on a personal level, like, you know, like, I think it's sort of being. It's something that I've sort of struggled with, you know, like, later on in life now, because I did miss out on so many monumental friends events, family events, and, and things like that, and, and to the point where sometimes, like, I find it hard and you know, to, to sort of fit in in my own environments, you know, like, because I've sometimes removed myself from those environments for so long and often it's hard to re, you know, put you plant yourself back in those environments sort of thing. And, and I think that sometimes, like, you know, you know, and it's sort of probably one of, you know, my, I guess, misgivings, I think of having this idea which, like, is build a career around is like, you know, having those life experiences has helped me see so many experiences, you know, in other people's lives, and I'm able to connect with that, but then replanting that into my own family, it sort of, you know, can be challenging sometimes. You know what I mean? So that's, you know, it's always like, you know, like, even though you get something so great from one side, you know, there's always a drawback on the other. [00:55:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's very true. I think it's interesting when we talk to photographers about the use of social media, whether it be to promote or showcase their work or attract more clients, and, and it's starting to feel like Instagram, you know, we've talked about this on our, on our podcast before where it feels like Instagram used to support photographers. It used to be there for image share, it used to work for photographers, but now it kind of feels like the photographers work for it, you know, and you've got to constantly feed this machine to get any sort of recognition in algorithms and things like that. Do you see a future, Markus, where platforms like Instagram stop being photographer friendly? [00:55:57] Speaker A: Oh, I think in some ways, like, you just probably hit the nail on the head. We're probably working for the machine, you know, rather than it working for us. So, yeah, I think like, you know, that boat's probably sailed. I don't know. I don't think it would ever be a platform. I think, I guess it's going back to, you know, about the Bright Festival. There's nothing better than, you know, that. That collective group of being all together physically to, you know, in the one room and, and sharing photography and sharing common interests. I don't think you can even replicate that online. So nothing really replaces that. Yeah, and I think people who have only experienced social media and really haven't experienced like a real name, natural event where, you know, in a way for them, they experience that when they go to a concert and see like one of their favorite artists and that collective energy and everything like that is. And I guess that way how they could probably maybe understand that. Imagine that feeling when you go to be a bunch of photographers together and that energy, you know, sort of comes through. So I think with social media, it's like, it's, it's, it's really difficult in, in that way. And, and I don't think it highlights photography. I mean, and the hard thing is that like there's weeks sometimes, like I'll go a couple weeks or even a month without posting and it's only because, like, I've just got so much on or doing something, I'm going from wedding to wedding or commercial shoot to commercial shoot or trying to prep for an exhibition and things like that. It's. But I'm also very conscious because then, you know, wedding inquiries will come in and, and say, oh, you know, like you're not doing it anymore or something like that. And. And because you're not actively posting, so it's. It's a real sort of balance like that. I know that I've also got to keep posting because even though it's funny, the more you're busy, the less time you got to post. So it's a whole. Whole rigmarole, you know, like circle sort of thing, you know, to sort of. To even deal with. [00:58:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:08] Speaker A: You know, so [00:58:10] Speaker C: I want to find out a little bit about, like, the history of. Of and. And how studio impressions has involved evolved sort of over the 25 years and how your workload has evolved, as in how, like, what was your busiest year with weddings? And then what do you do now? That kind of thing. But before that. [00:58:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:58:27] Speaker C: I just want to quickly check in with the chat and see what's been happening. Oh, and actually, before that, I should probably do. Should we do an ad for the podcast to make sure that we don't do. And all the stuff. Tax times coming up. If you are a photographer like we are, I'm guessing you are. If you're listening to this show and you have a camera, but your strap is just not very comfortable, you can go to Luckystraps.com and have a look at what we have to offer. We make some of the most comfortable straps that there are, and specifically we. So our Deluxe 45, which is the most comfortable one we make. It's. It's full leather, made in Australia, but with neoprene padding on the inside, and the leather's rolled around the edges of the padding, so it's just beautiful and soft on your neck. That one is our most popular strap for the Leica SL series, which is what Marcus shoots. We get a lot of people leaving reviews for it because the sls have a slot in them, kind of like Canon has a strap slot, like a 10 mil slot. And our quick release system fits perfectly into that. And then if you quickly disconnect it, there's nothing left on the camera. No dongles or anything. Otherwise, if you shoot a smaller camera, like Greg does with his Fujifilm crop sensors, those tiny little sensors that he shoots with, or I use this. I couldn't help it. I couldn't help it. Or with my Q3 that I just used in Bali almost every day, I use the slim 30. That's our, like, thinner version. It's still wide enough, though, that it's nice and supportive on your shoulder while you're strolling around markets and things. So go to Luckystraps.com. check it out. If there's something that you like, you can use Code Greg or Code Justin or Code Jim. Actually, any of them. Vote with your codes. We have a competition going on the side to see who gets the most. [01:00:13] Speaker B: Yeah, well, Jim's cheating because he's saying Code Jim for the most lovely, lovely packaging of your lucky strap. That's an advantage that I don't have, and I think it's unfair for him to call that out. Use Code Greg. The discount with Code is better. It's better than the Code Gym. [01:00:29] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's great. [01:00:31] Speaker C: And if you're not sure what strap would suit you best, just email justinuckystraps.com and I'll get back to you. And if I don't get back to you, Yelena will check my inbox and make sure that I get back to you. Bruce Boyle just said, justin, you should have some screenshots ready for your ad reads or pull up the website because showing is better than talking. That's true. Here, I've got one sitting here on my desk. This is one of my Deluxe 45s that I usually can see there. The red on this, that's the rolled edges, the beautiful soft rolled edges. So it's got red upholstery leather on the back and then a nice soft brown leather on the top. That's one of my straps. Anyway, that's that done. And now let's. Let's check in with the chat. Oh, also, there might be some new people listening because Marcus is kind of a big deal. So if you're new and you like what you're hearing, we do this every week. We have a free photographer on every Thursday, an amazing photographer that we go deep on their story and what they do. So subscribe to the Camera Life podcast just by clicking the button. You can also listen on Spotify and stuff if you like to walk and. And do that. But we go live on YouTube so that you can get involved in the live chat and ask questions and give comments and. And that kind of thing. And then we also go live on Monday nights at 7:30pm Australian Eastern Time standard time. And those shows are more random. We call it the Random Photography show. We talk about camera news or just whatever's on our minds. And then you can also email me your images. Justinuckystraps.com and we'll bring those up on the show and have a look at your photos from recently or from in your archives. It doesn't matter. Anywho. Okay, what's the chat pain up to. I wanted to. There was a few earlier that I wanted to. Thanks. Thanks for sitting through all that, Marcus. [01:02:07] Speaker A: Sorry, I'm just feeling left out that I don't have a code to share. [01:02:13] Speaker C: I can make you one if you want. [01:02:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:02:17] Speaker C: Use code Mark. Not yet, but later if you're listening. [01:02:20] Speaker A: Later. [01:02:20] Speaker C: Use code Marcus for 15% off. Okay. Where was I? Who's been. Yeah. Greg Stubbings. Such. Parker. Is it Parker Pfister. Pfister Pfister. I don't. [01:02:35] Speaker A: Yeah, Parker J. Fister. [01:02:37] Speaker C: J Fister, right. [01:02:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:40] Speaker C: I thought you. I thought there was an initial in there and then I was like, is it the P? [01:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's. He's such an amazing photographer and. And I think, you know, someone that you should get on and talk to as well. Yeah. [01:02:53] Speaker B: Look into that for sure. [01:02:55] Speaker C: I'm actually going to. I won't ask you now, but later in the show I've got a note down here to ask you for a book recommendations. I'm slowly building up my. My photo book library, so I'm going to ask you for a recommendation later. Have a think about that, Ian. Wilco 4077. Great chat, fellas. Thanks for sharing. Thank you, Ian. Who else? Ben Clark Photography. Says Marcus. Such a great bloke. I agree. Absolutely agree. Dennis hoped you get a funny hat with the Grandmaster title. [01:03:25] Speaker B: It's almost like a. I think you need a cape. [01:03:28] Speaker A: Oh. [01:03:28] Speaker B: Because it's almost like. It's almost a Star wars thing, you know, Grandmaster Bell, you know, it sounds like it's got oomph. Anyway. [01:03:37] Speaker A: Like a wizard. Maybe. [01:03:38] Speaker C: Maybe Parker's. Parker's birthday today. That's cool. [01:03:42] Speaker A: No way. [01:03:43] Speaker B: Thanks. [01:03:44] Speaker A: Ben Clark. [01:03:44] Speaker C: Ben Clark says Happy birthday, Parker. Yeah, yeah, we'll get you on the show. All right. Some more comments. David de Parker says my body is now telling me that I've led an interesting life. [01:04:00] Speaker B: While we're talking about David, dear Parker. David, dear Parker, I have not forgotten about you. You've. You've dodged every attempt we've had to get you on this show. [01:04:08] Speaker C: But we are not giving up the most elusive photographer. Yeah, I know. And he's always in the chat and stuff, but I know he's very busy, so. Yeah, but we've got to get you on. Lucinda says social media is such a powerful tool for me personally. Yeah, that's because you're awesome at it, Lucinda. That's why your. Yeah, your Instagram is impressive. Who else? Oh, yeah. So I. I have been thinking about doing a video ad for the Camera straps. But I also don't know if people would just want to skip through it if it's the same ad. So I don't know. [01:04:39] Speaker A: I'm. [01:04:40] Speaker C: We kind of like freeballing it on this. On this show. David de Parker says, mate, does magical light follow you wherever you go? Glenn Lavender's here. He says just joined and presented with a five minute advertorial. It wasn't five minutes, it was like 60 seconds. Glenn, come on, please. All right, anyone else? Marcus. Not being in the center of the frame is killing my, my ocd. [01:05:13] Speaker B: Good. [01:05:14] Speaker C: Oh, dear. Okay. All right, that's. That's the whole thing. And then there was a fun. Oh, there's two final ones. Dennis Smith, thanks for becoming a member. He says you're the best, Dennis. Once again, the Camera Life podcast delivers something magical. Always learning, always being inspired. Thank you. I know so little. No, you don't. But thank you. And then finally, Matt Palmer, images of note, says, Marcus was the reason I joined the AIPP way back when. If he thought it was worth being a member, then I should at least try it for a year. It was a positive influence and changed my career. Well, that's cool. [01:05:47] Speaker B: It's amazing. Absolutely. [01:05:50] Speaker C: Very, very cool. What a comment. All right. [01:05:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:54] Speaker C: Can I ask about. Can I ask about 25 years in business? I know, and you do. And you do lots of things. Obviously not just weddings, but I think, would it be fair to say that weddings have been the main, the main sort of focus of your business side of photography? [01:06:12] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. [01:06:13] Speaker C: Throughout the career. [01:06:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And it still is. [01:06:17] Speaker C: It still is. [01:06:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it still is. And I, and I just absolutely love it. And yeah, studio impressions. It came about because, like, I never wanted it to be about myself funny enough. So I guess that sat sort of shy aspect. I wanted like, not only someone, something like to hide behind, but I also, you know, from a point of view is that getting into the game of photography, you know, can be difficult. And I wanted it to be a, like a collective group of like, you know, equally talented and inspiring and photographers. And then what? It just grew to be. And I was so. I've been so blessed to have some of the finest, you know, photographers, you know, and people that came and, you know, worked with the studio over during that time, you know, and it was, it's just been one hell of a journey and you know, it's, you know, we sort of, um, started at like, um, you know, with one employee coming on and then it build and just built and built and I think that the most full time employees we had was, was 10 or 11 and then we still had like second, you know, photographers. The funniest thing I also thought like was that, you know, creating a business that, you know, and you could employ people to do most things for you and then you could just sit back and, and relax a little bit. It was like. So that was like. Yeah, it was totally. Yeah, yeah, it was like. So. But, but you know what, I, I just very fortunate because I was then when things just started taking off, it did enable me to, to travel the world and, and go to all these incredible, you know, destinations and photograph and then go speak and, and share, you know, my experiences about the photography industry and life and things like that. And without all those incredible people working at the studio, I wouldn't have been able to do that. So. And then through, along the way, you know, my incredible wife Penny, you know, supported and been part of the studio in many ways, you know, as well. And. Yeah, and then we would always like have like this, you know, incredible space to work with and things like that. And then I think Covid hit or you know, the, and then around the same time the industry was drastically changing anyway and that like you wouldn't be able to, I think support like a team of 10 people. It would be really rare now. And in fact, I think, you know, if you look around the country now, it's, it's very rare that you even see a storefront sort of studio, you know, which is sort of a sad part of, part of the industry I think. You know, and you know, it's been just changes along the way. So. Yeah, we've only got like a, you know, a fraction of the stuff now, but you know, it works really, really great. It's just sort of, it's more boutique. But funny enough, even with 10 stuff, we'll always boutique, you know, was always about the experience and you know, exceptional photography and you know, delivering something always, you know, incredible and as well. And so I, I do most of the weddings now, you know, and just love it. You know, I mean we're just sort of coming off like a, like a big run of, of weddings and then we get a little bit of a reprieve like during winter before it gets, you know, busy getting around in September and things like that. [01:10:12] Speaker B: And are those moments of reprieve? Sorry, Jay, you go, no, that's all right. [01:10:16] Speaker C: You go. I was just gonna ask numbers, so. [01:10:19] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [01:10:20] Speaker A: Yeah, that's boring. [01:10:21] Speaker B: And are those moments of reprieve, you know, like the Australian winter. Is that when you look to further your projects, your personal projects, your art? [01:10:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah. So that's when I've been working and I think where that sort of cumulated in like around Covid, where, you know, things just sort of did stop. So I, I spent the initial part of the time just relearning the craft. I'm always just learning, you know, like someone in chat, you know, you know, mentioned, you know, like they've got so much to learn and. But, you know, I'm exactly the same. Like, you know, is that, you know, I think, you know, as photographers and what we're of kind creating is that we've always got something bigger and better and you know, to move on to as far as like learning. And so during that first period of, you know, Covid, like I just sort of dived into relearning a lot of the things, you know, from how I work, my images and the tools around me and learning not to draw to that, that understanding how digital artists. One of the things that I, I Learned back in 1998 when I first entered the awards is about, you know, you know, a photographer taught me and said, you know, darken the darks and lighten the lights and then, you know, really get in to really define those areas so you get that, create that three dimensional pop, you know. And it was interesting, you know, during COVID going back and seeing like, you know, you know, a YouTube video on, on an artist that was doing that and go, oh my God, that's what I did back in 1998, you know what I mean? And yeah, you know, we can forget some of those little simple things that we sort of learn. So then through that process I thought, you know what? I've always hid behind the studio impressions banner and I've never had my own website, you know, ever. And so I ended up thought, you know what, I'll, I'll work towards, you know, creating, you know, my own website that people can check out, you know, under themarcusbell.com and then also go through and you know, look at, concentrate more again on the exhibitions. It was something that I used to do early on, like, you know, in year 2000, I exhibited a lot of the European work that I did. But then I did some, you know, charity exhibitions and, and a lot of other, you know, a few other little bits here, but never anything that was sort of dedicated. So I decided to, again in that downtime now is that I use that time to, you know, concentrate on the work that I just, you know, personally also love doing, you know, either. From the landscapes to streets, you know, to, you know, some of the stuff that I did in the Pantanal and in other places as well. So, yeah, that's what I sort of do now. Like, I try to, you know, and then I make myself too busy always. [01:13:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:20] Speaker C: Yes, we all. We're all guilty of that, that's for sure. You can always find, if you have some time, you'll. You'll fill it up. [01:13:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [01:13:28] Speaker C: The. I just. I just quickly want to find. Like, do you remember what maybe the busiest year. Do you know how many weddings might have gone through the studio? But then also it might not be the same year, but how many, like your busiest year, personally shooting weddings would have been? [01:13:44] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I guess I could sort of to put it in perspective too, like, probably one of our busiest years, I think we would have shot about 120 weddings and that would have been over maybe three. Three or four people. Three. Three people at least, you know, sharing those weddings. So. So we've always been about, like, that experience. Experience. So we were never a studio that sort of could do hundreds and hundreds of, you know, weddings because it wouldn't just have been at all possible because we dedicate so much time, you know, to each client, you know, in. In many aspects of, you know, like, you know, from hand processing the images, you know, to, you know, and. And also the preparation and things like that. And. And I guess one of the things now, you know what I mean, I do roughly around 20 weddings a year. And so. But I treat every wedding as a destination wedding, even though if it might be just an hour from home and. And it was a few things that I used to learn where I would be gone for four or five days shooting with a couple and they would have multiple events. But what it also meant, it gave me added time to be able to pray, plan and prepare for each of those weddings. So, like, I was able to go to the rehearsal, for instance, and be there. And then I noticed, I started photographing it because I noticed how much emotion was happening during those times. Sometimes there was a wedding event where they would have a welcome dinner. And so. So I'm starting to do that, you know, or, you know, years ago, I started implementing that same approach even to the local weddings, is that when they're hiring me to do their wedding, it's not just the one day. There's so much more planning and preparation and things like that. So. So therefore there's only certain number of weddings Per year you could do that as well. So. So yeah. But you know, I remember when, you know, sort of things sort of, you know, sort of changed for me was when, you know, things were just getting so crazy and I went and did one wedding in Bali and came back on Christmas Eve, had Christmas Day, then flew out on Boxing Day, went to Guam, photographed a wedding there, came back on New Year's Eve and. And then like I, even though, like on Christmas Day and New Year's Eve, even though I was there, I wasn't really there. Yeah, I would thinking about getting on the plane the next day and everything that needed to be dedicated to that client and things like that. And so I realized I was just, you know, doing too much and you know, and things sort of slowly started to change after that. [01:16:33] Speaker C: Did you. Does that mean. So now just roughly do you price a local wedding similar to a destination wedding? Wedding may be separate and then obviously there's travel expenses and things like that. But in terms of, you know, because you're dedicating a similar amount of time, would you sort of be. Is it a similar kind of price list depending on travel? [01:16:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it is a similar sort of priceless. But in, in, in that regards too because the market has moved and changed. So rather than like just dropping, you know, like prices to meet, you know, other photographers lowering their prices is that we sort of looked at, well what could we add on and what experiences and what things is really important that I see that makes a huge difference in the day, you know, and the results in the images. And that was like by doing extra planning and it means also me doing all the post production production as well on the back end. So it's all these little touches that you know, where they, you know. So it's not just the day itself that I think that also make, you know, a huge difference. [01:17:47] Speaker C: So you're editing, you're editing your own images currently? [01:17:51] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So I edit like I do use you know, like for like a bit of either Imagine or after sheet just for the first, first part. But to be honest, like I've tried all of them and they all suck, to be honest. You know. [01:18:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:18:10] Speaker A: So but it does sort of the one thing that I do like where not always but it can get in a pocket of color balance consistently throughout. But it's, it's definitely not perfect but so then I'm going in and still attending to every image after that. But it just gives me a starting point, you know what I mean? And it's super cool. I always like, for me, it's always fun. Like, I'm just always, like, you know, wanting to push the envelope. So there's. Sometimes I'll start a wedding process and I'll spend half a day, maybe even three quarters of the day just playing with the, you know, two or three images. I'll come up with a whole collection of new presets, like, based on what I've spent three quarters of the day doing. But once I've got that dialed in and got a whole new look and a whole new thing, like, you know, I ended up finding, you know, with this recent wedding that I just did just the other day, is that, like, I found this way of creating a halo, like, around behind the. The couple's head. So it acts as a bit like a backlight. And it's just a technique that I accidentally came across. And it just gives this super cool, cool effect and, you know, separation and. But it's just very subtle. But, you know, it's like that you've just backlit them just with a light, just ever so slightly. And so I would just do that. And then that becomes part of their look, you know, on. Of their wedding. And then so once you sort of dial things in, then you can, you know, a lot quickly go and create a preset and then, you know, duplicate that over multiple images and things like that. Yep. [01:19:54] Speaker C: Yeah, that's very cool. I love that you still play with things and iterate and. Yeah, you're not just using the same preset you developed in 2016. And, you know, you're always evolving and moving it forward. Jim, who's. Yeah, my. My old business partner says, do you ever need someone to carry your bags? [01:20:15] Speaker A: He. [01:20:16] Speaker C: He would. He would certainly probably drive. Drive to wherever you're shooting or fly, I'm sure, to. To spend the day carrying your bags around if you ever need somebody. Yeah, actually, that's a good question. Do you work with assistants? Do you have an assistant that you work with on wedding days or. No. [01:20:32] Speaker A: Funny enough, like. Like when I need a second photographer, I've got some incredible photographers to draw on. And, like, I love shooting with them and love it, but I would say 90 of the weddings I do, I'm just by myself. I don't even have an assistant or anything. So I'm very mindful these days of the gear that I'm carrying. And. And I've always been that way anyway. And because I always want to have everything literally on me. So I always shoot with two bodies. And now I've got this. You Know, really cool little small bag that I put any lighting, extra lenses and batteries and things in. So I'm really sort of, you know, very mobile and as well. [01:21:15] Speaker C: So, so you can basically. Yeah, unfortunately, no, you carry your own bags. You can, you can stroll around the wedding and you've essentially got everything at your fingertips that you might need. [01:21:26] Speaker A: Exactly, yeah. [01:21:27] Speaker C: Whilst staying, staying pretty light and pretty. [01:21:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:29] Speaker C: Just all on your feet. You're not wheeling any bags or anything like that. [01:21:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that's really important for many reasons. One, security, like you've always got your cards and your batteries on you so you don't have anything to worry about someone walking off. Now keeping in mind like, you know, if I'm, you know, I'll still have backup equipment and things like in the car that's locked away. But also too, you're not wheeling a bag or worrying about another bag when you're going from location to location. So. Because, you know, some of the best photos, you know, definitely happened, you know, of the destination, you know, between A and B, not when you're actually at A or B, you know what I mean? So it means that you can work super fast, you know, and if you need something, you know, you can just quickly make a change as well. So you're not sort of wondering, you know, if the second, you know, if there's someone who was hand holding the bag for you, you know, is not concentrating or walked off and things like that or, you know, so you've got it there. And so yeah, I just love it. And I'm just able to, you know, do that. And, and also with my camera equipment, like I, I just have everything set up with like profiles. So I have different shooting profiles at different times of the day. So I've got, got all those dialed in, you know, and, and, and that's what's really great I think with, you know, the, you know, camera manufacturers the last 10 years and you can just flick a button and go to a different profile in a different way of shooting. I mean, I'll give you an example. Yeah, you know, like one, one time in my career I, I, I was shooting Canon. This is like really early on. Like, I think the D30, you know what I mean, was the first digital. [01:23:13] Speaker B: It's okay. We all make mistakes. [01:23:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:17] Speaker C: Come on, Greg. [01:23:19] Speaker A: But then, and, and then I went to nikon because the D3 was such a game changer as far as high ISO and things like that. Anyway, there was like people in the US that, you know, that been following me for years. And they were so disappointed that I went over to Nick on and, and then years later someone messaged me and said, hey, you know, Marcus, you know, like I, I just needed to say this, but you know, your work has changed. I don't like it. And, and like there's something different that was really organic, you know, when you were shooting Canon. And so it was so funny because at first, like I sort of going, well, like I've really upset someone because I've gone through from Canon to Nikon. And I actually stopped one day and I started to think about it. It was like, I don't know, it was just like at me and at me like this comment and then I started to analyze why. And then I started thinking about it and breaking it down. I said, okay. The game changer was that I went from, from, you know, with the Nikon D3, I could shoot at 12,008, 800 ISO so easily. So that enabled me for, to increase my shutter speed. And then I, then I just gone, oh my God, that's it. It's because I'm shooting with a much higher shutter speed. Everything is perfectly frozen. And what I used to love, I guess with shooting the cannons at, you know, I was always shooting maybe even at 1/30 of a second, even slower, sometime 1/15 of a second. And so there was a movement in my images. And I even remember doing this myself. Like when you're going in culling images is that, you know, you would go, there was like, say that might be in the church and they're walking down and like one's out of focus, not out of focus, but just got too much movement. And one's perfectly like, like in there. And then I delete the perfectly [01:25:23] Speaker B: one [01:25:24] Speaker A: without movement because it lost the feeling. And because of doing that, I realized that what that comment was is that I had everything at a much higher shutter speed than before. So I lost a lot of that feeling and movement in my images. So when I realized that, then I created a user profile to go back into have a shutter rather than using aperture priority that I use 90% another time have a shutter priority where it was at a low shutter speed. So there'd be times when I could flip over to that. So it was, it was, it was awesome. You know, like a great learning experience to, to listen to what I thought was some fanboy, you know, like me. But, you know, but they were, that was spot on. They were really spot on. They, they, they noticed that there was a change and I took it on board and made adjustments. [01:26:22] Speaker C: Wow. [01:26:22] Speaker B: It's interesting though. And we've seen that and spoken to other photographers about that and even from our own experience, you know, I think whenever you upgrade either to a new camera in the same brand or jump brands, there's such a big learning curve again. It's like, it's like you know, you, you fly interstate somewhere and you pick up a hire car and as soon as you sit in it you feel a bit confused and lost because you need to work out which side is the indicator and which side is the wipers. And you've got to relearn that new car to be able to drive safely, you know, and swapping camera brands is a lot like that. And often you'll see, you know, like a drop in performance or, or like what this person, your fanboy pointed out was, you know, a change in style simply from changing, you know, the camera system and, and working faster and being able to, you know, shoot faster shutter speeds. It's interesting when we see that, you know, it's never going to be an instant. Oh, this has made me better. Sometimes you'll see a drop in, in performance when we make those changes. Yes. Tell us about your, your wedding kit. So when you, when you've got your bag, what bodies and what lenses are you typically carrying for a wedding? [01:27:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll shoot, I'll go with like what a shot like last weekend on the, with the wedding where they wanted something a bit different which was really cool. So I always love that again like I had time, you know, to prepare and things like that. They wanted a lot of, a lot more on camera flash and which I don't normally do. Um, um, I do a lot of off camera flash, you know, at occasionally on my commercial shoots and weddings and, and things like that, but not as much on camera. And so, so I had my two bodies I was shooting with like the SL3 and the SL2s. So one of the things that like I been loving is the, the relatively new 28 to 72.8 like a lens which is a lot lighter than the 28 to, to 70. I, I love using a zoom lens because both in, in my weddings and my personal work because it's just the way I learn and, and adjust on the fly my focal length of what I wanting to shoot and how to shoot. But also I also know that a lot of the time where I will, you know, like they like being a ceremony where I need to be tied in at 70 but then I want to, you know, like get the crowd, you know, watching. So I need to be at 23rd way. Then I've got like my second body, which is generally either like a, like a 90 mil, like apo lens, but in this instance I actually use the, the 16 to 28, you know, 2.8 lens because I knew they wanted that like on camera flash look. It also allowed me because it was sort of some tidy, tighter shooting situations, like looking at everything that, you know, I was thinking about what I wanted to achieve, that I was able to then be able to shoot a bit wider than I normally do. So I wouldn't normally shoot with that lens, but so I still had the 90 mil in the bag for that extra reach. And sometimes what I love about, you know, is that we could use that APS C crop mode so that, you know, in that 90 becomes like a 135 as well. So. So it's about having. What I love about when shooting primes is that you generally, you've got two primes in the bag, you know, when you're using that sort of, you know, sort of crop mode. And then in the bag I also had my 50mil m summilux as well, you know, because it just gives this look that, you know, other just can't achieve. And, and even if, you know, you look at like the, the original SL, which I don't know if it's like 14 years or, you know, 12 years or 10 years old or whatever, and it's got the most amazing, incredible evf, you know, in that, you know, that body. And it's just, you know, improved. It's sort of like where I wish they could have that EVF like in like the Q3, you know, and, you know, because it's so beautiful, like. And I know it's like a physics, you know, size thing as well, but this is another topic is that I'm always looking for the perfect camera. The perfect camera does not exist, unfortunately, you know, But I'm always looking for, you know, the perfect street camera that, you know, would give me like a, you know, a 28 to 50 or a, you know, 28 to 70, you know, really super compact. And I really, you know, probably like the side of your, you know, your Fiji body, you know, Greg, you know, but anyway, I'm sidetracking, but. No, that's okay. But, but yeah, and then I had the, the Profoto A10 in there. And then I got this really super cool flash. I saw it the week before the wedding and I thought, oh, my God, I gotta have this flash and it's, I think it's an it32 by Godox and it has a Leica trigger and it's magnetic flash that just comes off. So you can shoot it like, you know, on camera flash. And then if you want to do so. It was so cool. Like I just handed it like during the location sheet, I just took the flash off, I threw it to the bride's purse. I just said pointed at the couple and then they, you know, and, and then just started shooting off camera flash just within an instant. And then because it was magnetic, once I got it back, I just put it straight back on anyway, so it's such a cool flash. They make it for, you know, every, every camera it's recently knew and it's probably the coolest thing lately and that I've got. So. Yeah, that's it. [01:32:37] Speaker C: Let's have a little look at this. Yeah, so see there, you can see it all together as an on camera flash. But then the picture next to it, you can see there's a little wireless trigger still on the camera and then the flash units just completely off it. That's so it was, it was good. You enjoyed it. It worked well. [01:32:54] Speaker A: It was fantastic. It was amazing. And, and so I was able to use my profoto a 10 because like I've got my old Nikon one that works perfectly on the Leicas. So I was using that during the, the reception for one night and then I was using the, I mean, so on one camera and then I was using this little go docs on the other camera. It was, it was terrific. [01:33:20] Speaker C: That's really cool. What a clever idea I had. I think we saw this maybe when it came come out on the news, but we didn't have a, a good like look at it. I use the Godox system for my stuff, but just use like their, their regular strobes and their regular triggers. And I hadn't really looked too deep into this, this little thing. It's very clever. [01:33:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:33:40] Speaker B: It's a good little system, isn't it? [01:33:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And it reminds me of like, you know, using the M lenses, you know what I mean? They're so small, so you can have like two or three like lenses in the, in your bag and they don't take up any room. So that's why I just love like that, that, you know, and it's so funny, you know, like I, because I've always had those M lenses for, you know, throughout, every time, every integration of digital. Right. I would go on to Ken Rockwell's site, you know and like and doing all these reviews and it was so funny because like he would always talk about like and it was also Reed reviews is another really great one anyway and both of them talk about like if you want to use the M lenses, you know, really the only camera to use it on is a Leica camera, you know because it makes a huge difference like. And so I tried them on the Sony's, I tried them on Nikon, I tried on. I actually I, I didn't try it on Canon but anyway it just, I was always listening and saying it like listening to them. What they were saying is that it really only works on. And I was trying everything but. But then I got the, the original SL to just use that was. And that was my you know introduced introduction into digital like it and it was incredible. So even if, if, like if anyone wants to start out in Leica, I would highly recommend. I'm gonna hate saying this but highly recommend saying to get original SL body if you just want to put your toe in the water because it's, it's incredible. The reason why I hate saying it is because I would love an original SL again and, and you can pick up one relatively cheap but if I tell everyone to go get one there won't be one for me to go out. [01:35:42] Speaker B: And what about. Do you ever do ever throw an M body like an M mount Cameron? [01:35:46] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah occasionally like very very occasionally like I'll get asked to shoot film so I mainly use the M digitals like for street and personal work and things like that. I rarely would take one to, to a wedding only because I just love the M lenses on the SL and because it becomes just something less to carry and so I feel like I'd be doubling. I love like the look of you know. Yeah the M but, but occasionally I would shoot an M6, you know with some film so. But I try not to but I love it but it's just, it's, it's, it's a lot to think about. [01:36:31] Speaker C: Yeah, I've, I've got so many questions. So I, I currently I shoot with Canon. That's why Greg's always throwing shade. And I've got a Leica Q3. It was a dream camera since the Q came out. So basically since the original Q come out I was, I've always wanted a Q but could never justify buying one. And then I finally bit the bullet and did it and then the Q3 has been a love hate relationship from it freezing up and doing silly things because I bought it like really soon after it was released and then, and then obviously quickly do firmware updates and things like that and it gets better and better. And then I had kind of decided it wasn't for me, even though I love it, but the autofocus was just a little bit too inconsistent for me and a bit slow. And then this most recent firmware update come out and then I just took it to Bali and now I love it again. I took, I took my Canon to Bali and the Q3 and I almost never shot with the Canon, whereas when I went to Vietnam before this firmware come out, I almost didn't shoot with the Q3 because everything was moving so fast and I was trying to capture action like going through the city without sort of stopping and manually focus or composing scenes. I was just kind of trying to move quickly and the Canon was a lot more responsive. So I ended up shooting that. So what's troubled me, long story short, is you've mentioned a lighter weight. I've always said that SL lenses are too heavy for me for the way that I like to shoot. For street stuff, no problem for like, more like professional work. But for street stuff I want to be a little bit lighter. But you mentioned there's a 28 to 72.8 that's light and I've just googled it and it is light because I currently, if I take the Canon out, They've got a 28 to 72.8 that's quite light. And that's the lens that I use because I love the 28mm focal length. But then I like to be able to get in close to around 50 as well. That lens sounds it. It. So you enjoy that lens, the 28 to 72.8? [01:38:32] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. So it's so funny because like I would love a Q3 size with interchangeable lenses, right? But then the problem is, is that like, and, and Sony has its what the A7C R or whatever. So all of those cameras like have the problem of physics. So you can't put an SL style viewfinder, which is one of the most amazing things that feels like you're looking at real life like in that. So what I've worked out is that the SL3 is the most amazing camera for me like as far as. And it's only because of that 28 to 70 now that it becomes a lot more compact again and lighter weight. So if I was to travel like Instead of a Q3, I would take the SL3 and the 28 to 70 because of what it gives me. And, and it's a lot lighter now, that combination and everything like that. And so, yeah, so it's, it's super incredible. I would love that combo shrunk even more. But I think the problem is, is the two things that I would like regret is the EVF if it was any different. And also the little joystick. So you don't get that Joystick on the Q3. And I use that joystick all the time. So. So that's why it's funny, you know, when full circle, because. And also too, like sometimes I struggle because I, I use the SL3 every day for work. You know what I mean? And sometimes like, that's why it's nice having like the M cameras because. Yeah, you know, you know, it's just for personal work and then it's sort of. You can detach yourself. But the problem is, is that I realized the work that the, the camera that I use every day, you know, I didn't want it to be. But it is the perfect personal camera as well. So in some ways I've been thinking of picking up another one just so it's, it's different even though it's the same. I don't know, maybe, maybe a bit [01:40:43] Speaker B: of bling to differentiate. Like maybe some rattles. Rattlesnakes. [01:40:46] Speaker C: I know the reporter edition. The reporter edition. [01:40:49] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Oh, maybe I need a new camera strap for like the other one. Like to see camera straps when it's like, you know, like it's, you know, like holiday night. [01:40:59] Speaker C: That's right. [01:40:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:41:00] Speaker C: Comfortable. Your comfortable single camera strap for holiday mode. Because you run the jewel for when you're. [01:41:05] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, exactly. [01:41:07] Speaker C: We'll help you out. We'll make something. Yeah. [01:41:10] Speaker B: On, on the question of gear, you know, you talked about how often the SL3 wins the day because it's just such a good camera for you. It's perfect for you. That lens of 28 to 70, was it you said? [01:41:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:41:23] Speaker B: What is your go to street kit, though? If you just want to head out the door, One camera, one lens, do a bit of documentary street work. Is it going to be the SL3 or are you going to try? [01:41:31] Speaker A: Yeah, so. So that's what I ended up taking the last time I went out. You know, a couple friends in Brisbane, we go out occasionally and we went out and I just took the, the SL3 and the 28 to 70 and. And you know, it's funny, you know, it's often I'm just seeing now, you know, in the last six months or year maybe like just how great a city Brisbane is is to go out and shoot. You know, I always get jealous of you guys in being in Melbourne because it's such an incredible city to shoot in and you know, for street and everything like that. But, but now I'm starting to see that in Brisbane. You know what I mean? I think it's just sort of sometimes you got to just get out there and it's one of the things, it's probably the number one rule that I, you know, tell everyone else to do is like just, just get out and start and things will happen. So now like I'm telling myself that [01:42:30] Speaker C: one more, one more real quick gear question, then I want to shift gears into your project work and personal work and how those come about. But before we do that, I've read a lot because I'm so obviously, I obviously Google a lot of Leica gear and only ever bought one. But the lens, as you mentioned, you often shoot with a 90 mil APO lens. And I've read about APO lenses and what like. And that stands for. How do you pronounce? Is it apochromatic? Apochromatic or something like that? [01:43:00] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So probably my favorite lens that I don't have at the moment that I would love from Leica and I think this is where, you know, I would say the SL system separates it from every other system is, is those APO lenses. They're incredible. So I would love the 35 mil. I, I did a test one day, you know, early on, it was like the 35 APO. It was, was 35 summicron M lens that I had. I also had, I think I shot with a Nikon equivalent 35 and it was something else. Anyway, I, it was just one portrait of my son over all these different gear. Anyway, my son kept on coming back and just choosing that apo. It just gives this rendering. Those APO lenses that you shoot at F2, that's just so three dimensional. It's just out of this world. And you know, the, the price you pay for is they are a little bit more expensive but they're a little bit heavier, you know, like compared to, you know, the non APO version. But they're just so beautiful. Like they just, they do things that other lenses just don't do. And it's just that it factor and you know what I mean? And coming with all my knowledge about vintage lenses and, and lenses that have personality like we talked about with that 58 mil Nikon lenses. What these APO lenses have is just this pure, pure, you know, incredible aspects to it. So, so, yeah, so that would be that. And the one also thing that I learned when going over to, to Germany on this trip, I, I got to learn and understand by, you know, talking to the guys that do the lenses with Peter Carver is like the, the difference between the Summicrons and the Summer Luxes is that even though like, you know, the Summicron is like an F2 lens and the Summer Lux is a 1.4, is that they're designed to shoot at F2, that it gives like a, that same depth of field as a 1.4 lens, but the rendering is different. And that's when you start looking at all the out of focus areas that the rendering between Similux range and the Similux and the Summicrons are completely different from each other. Which is a bad thing if you're holding cameras and lenses like myself, because then you need to own both. You know what I mean? Because it gives you a different look. And it's funny, the way that I've always looked at it is that, is that the lenses that we get to use is like choosing a different paintbrush. Yeah. And so we're. This sort of philosophy gives me the permission to myself to spend more money on lenses and have multiple lenses. [01:45:59] Speaker B: Well, I think it's a good philosophy. And you know, you know, electricians show up for a job, they don't just bring one screwdriver, they bring a whole set because they don't know what the job entail. [01:46:09] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:46:10] Speaker B: You need a whole set. [01:46:11] Speaker A: Exactly. [01:46:11] Speaker B: Whole mentality. Yeah, I love it. [01:46:16] Speaker A: And luckily in Brisbane on Sunday, once a year they have this camera fair and I haven't been to it for like five, six years, but I've got a store like to get rid of my excess, you know, lenses and cameras and everything that I buy all these things for these projects, use them once or twice and then, you know, jump, finally move them on. So, so I'm trying to declutter a little. So if you're in Brisbane and you're after a bargain, you know, come and see me on Sunday at the camera fair. [01:46:48] Speaker C: That's awesome. Might fly up for it. I also love, I love that you mentioned, I love that you mentioned Ken Rockwell. It's, it's so funny that like the amount of people, it probably doesn't get as much traffic as it used to, but the amount of people that used to visit that site, you know, when a new lender come out and it was always a picture of like. Be a picture of like a palm tree leaf or something like that. And then like testing the sun, stars and everything. And it was just. But you would. And you'd check it all out and anyway, we're gonna try and get him on podcast. [01:47:22] Speaker B: Yeah, we tried to get him on, but he. It all felt a bit complicated for him. But, but you know, to his credit, he was always page one of Google. Whenever you search for a product, he always came up. It was always the most, most in depth, depth analysis of everything. [01:47:38] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And just every lens that come out, it would just have all the specs and everything and all, you know, what, what bodies it was still compatible with. And all this stuff went. [01:47:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:47:49] Speaker C: Anyway. All right, just quickly before, let's, let's talk about some personal work. But it seems like Nev. Are you saying Nev Clark's in the, in the chat, he said before that he did a wedding first two, like a wedding on the weekend with the 2843. Works a treat. The 43 APO is insanely good. It's a mini medium format in its looks. That's why I bought the 43 as well. Nev. Are you saying that you now own the Q3 28 and the Q3 43? Because you only bought the 28 like just before I went to Bali. [01:48:21] Speaker B: I'll take credit for him buying the first one, but I had nothing to do with the second one. [01:48:24] Speaker C: The second one, that's legend. Yeah. He said he's in trouble. He's addicted now. Yeah. [01:48:31] Speaker B: Yes, he's replied. Yes, he did. [01:48:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:48:37] Speaker A: Dennis. [01:48:37] Speaker C: Who? Another Q3 shooter. Dennis says Q3 glass is insane and you get a free body with it. Yeah, that, that's the thing that, that finally tipped me over the edge of getting the Q3. Was that it. It's. [01:48:47] Speaker A: It. [01:48:48] Speaker C: Even though it's super expensive for me, it represents quite good value for what you get in that little package. [01:48:55] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. [01:48:57] Speaker C: Yeah. The power. I mean, we had a look at some of the images that I shot in Bali the other night. Like the, the, the resolving power of that lens and sensor combo in the Q3 for something that's so tiny is very impressive, let alone the fact that it's just great to shoot with and colors are amazing and. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, that's enough. Enough of a Leica Rad. Hopefully they'll sponsor the show or something. Okay. Personal. Personal work. So your. Would you say your first personal project was the, the European. That trip you did to Europe and, And that European work was that, like, I'm trying to understand the timeline and whether I've got it right. And that was. That was just before your first wedding. Yeah. Can you talk me through that and how it unfolded? [01:49:51] Speaker A: Yeah. All right. Okay, so I'll talk about a few little things when I first started, because I think, you know, like, I was thinking about it, what led up to that? So I ended up underdog, you know, learning the ropes, you know, as much as he could show me. And then I just worked out what I could go shoot because I didn't know there was many opportunities. So I would go try to shoot whatever I could. So I went and shot concerts, sporting events and things like that. And I just thought, you know what? This is never going to be possible. I'm going to try to get a media pass. So I just wrote to these, you know, companies or, you know, places and said, oh, could I get a media pass for the Ashes cricket? Which I couldn't believe. And they said, yes, yes, you know, like, come to. And I'm going, are you serious? Like, I, I've never shot a cricket game in my life and I'm going to the Ashes. You know, this is like so early on. Like, this is like the early 90s. I would go down to the, the Kira Pro, you know, like every year, you know, and shoot. And, and there was all of these things. I even photographed the, the Brisbane Bears and then they became the Brisbane Lions in the first year. And, and I couldn't afford, like, super expensive sport lenses, so I shot like, the way I could do, you know, with wide lenses and things like that. And, and it was interesting, like, say with the, the Brisbane Lions, I ended up capturing, I think it was Damien White, it was like his 150th or 300 game or whatever. And, and I ended up getting this shot. I showed the club and they go, oh my God, could you print that? And, you know, we want to give it to Damian White. And. And I said, yeah, sure, you know, and so I got to meet him. I got a signed copy of the photo that I presented. And, and I said, what happened to all the other photographers? They say, oh, they just shoot really tight. It doesn't show the atmosphere and everyone cheering and everything like that. And then they said, do you have any other photos? And, and I said, sure. Like, here's the, the shots from four or five games. And anyway, they had to produce like, their, their annual report and their thing for all the members and everything like that. And, and so that year, 90% of the images that went into that report were all my images. [01:52:14] Speaker C: Wow. [01:52:15] Speaker A: And the reason why is because they transitioned from the, the Bears to the Lions that year. They, they didn't have a stockpile of images to, to go through. And also all the professional and sports and, and media photographers, they're obviously just concentrating on the game and always it was very close, it was, wasn't very wide. So a lot of, so it was interesting lesson for me because I was able to look at what I didn't have but what I could do, like, and it ended up being an advantage. And that same with like, you know, with the, the Kira Pro and, and, and things like that. So now I've got this archive of images of all these incredible legends, you know, of them hanging out like, you know, and some shots that probably shouldn't be shown. I remember like, you know, with surfers with bikini girls like hanging off them inappropriately and things like that, you know, you wouldn't, you know, but, but I, I captured the life of surfing, you know, in there. And then I thought, oh, this is surfing super cool. So I did it with like, you know, the soccer and other things and then, and concerts is my big thing. And, and then I just would rock up to the side of stage like, and then look like a photographer and then they just say, yeah, just go in. So I didn't have a media pass or anything like that. So all of these doors open just because I was trying. And I didn't know that you couldn't not normally do that. So I guess what that led to is like me looking at like, you know, the creative work and that sort of documentary sort of style and you know, that, you know, that magnum that, that I was really, really drawn to. And so all along, you know, I'm working for the bank and I would see people at work go off to Europe. They'd come back, you know, a year later having a career leave a approved or 12 months and, and things like that. And, and then what happened was like, you know, I talked to my wife Penny about it, so we should do this, you know, and then, but rather than go work, why don't I photograph and you know, we just sort of save up enough for, you know, over three, four years to just completely just travel so we didn't have to work. Rather than going 12 months, would go for six months. And then at the back of my mind I said to her and, and she said, suggest, you know what we test the waters to see if you could become a photographer, you know, during this process. So, so that was, you know, like, and all along like while saying this, it all sounds easy but you know, I was scared, you know what I mean? And, and to take a risk like this where it was such a secure job and everything like that. And, and whilst I was really good at my job, I didn't have like, you know, when it came, probably didn't have the best reputation there. Only because I would always come up with these ideas to let people go, [01:55:06] Speaker C: get rid of your boss. [01:55:07] Speaker A: So, so when we approached like getting approved leave, you know, and it was funny, you know, going back to seeing these people go and then come back 12 months later, I would see the most incredible experience and I'll hear about it, what they had and then looked at my own life and go, what difference have I made? I'm just doing exactly the same thing. But where these people have just been on an adventure and things like that. So that inspired me. And when we applied for leave, my wife was also working for a bank for a six month trip. She got 12 months approved leave. They say, you know what, take 12 months. And so for my six month trip they say we'll give you three months. Months. The writing was on the wall. So we, we decided, well, we'll go and then, you know, look, if things aren't working out, we can come back early or I would sort of, you know, resign over there as it was. That's where, you know, within about six weeks, like I'd been there and I came across this Irishman that it should be on the blog, someone could read more about it. And, and then I, when I saw the image on the contact sheet, it just really spoke to me and I thought, you know, like I could probably, you know, do this. You know what I mean? There's, there's a hope. This, seeing this portrait that I took of this guy. Yeah, like just jump off, you know, and I thought, yeah, that would be unreal. And then, so it gave me hope. And then we were in Spain I think at three months and it was time to, to resign and we went down to the post office. So it was, it was obviously pre email and even stuff like that back in 96. No, 98, 1998. And anyway it was going to cost me $50 like to, to resign and we, we, I think we, we stayed up, you know, so we're gonna have to fax it to them. I was gonna say, yeah, yeah, like, so like I phoned them, said look, no, I'm not coming back, you know, like that's it, you know, and they say well, we'll need it in writing. And so we had to drive like an hour to. Oh, what's with that famous museum, the Guggenheim in Bilbo? Like it was, it was there because it was most incredible day, like you know, just wandering around there and anyway, we went to the post office and said oh, you know, look, that's going to be $50. And I thought screw that, I'm not going to spend 50 bucks to resign. So, so, so, so officially I'm probably, you know, it's, I've never, you know, left the bank so probably due long service. So that's awesome. But anyway, like, but, but that's how like that trip sort of set me up and also some encouraging things when I got back from some really great photographers here in Brisbane. I showed him my work and you know, they couldn't believe like, you know, what I'd produce. You know, I remember showing one photographer and you know, a contact sheet and I said is this just one roll of film? And, and I said yeah, yeah. And he goes holy shit. You know, and like so it gave me encouragement to, you know, to move forward. And then I entered that award and the Irishman and ended up you know, being like one of the, my first award plus a couple other from that trip. I think I became like landscape photographer the year, that year in Queensland in 99, nine the year after and, and then that led to like my first major show from that trip in 2000. So by then I was, I, I come back and a full time as a full time photographer which was like a simple start. If you want me to talk about like how I started the business back in. Coming back from a six month trip with no idea and no clue and no money. [01:59:09] Speaker C: Well, it would be interesting to know. [01:59:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:59:11] Speaker C: What was it? So did you say you had one wedding booked when you arrived back? Was that. [01:59:15] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah. I had one wedding before and so I had photographed like three or four, four or maybe six or seven weddings like before I left over between like 96 and 98, you know. So I was starting to, you know, find my straps and you know, we've wedding and it's funny, you know, I, I, I during that time I was learning even you know, with Doug, I would go out with wedding photographers and hold their bag and you know, just week in week out, not getting paid, just learning the ropes and things like that. And it was all a formula, you know, it didn't take me long to realize what they were doing. It was like a complete set list and shot list that, you know, you did the same week in, week out. Yeah. And that's was the form of, you know, me thinking, you know, this isn't really for me, you know, this isn't really what weddings I feel is about. And then I went to a friend's wedding and they had a professional photographer and I just went along and took photos. Probably annoyed the out of the professional photographer from taking photos. I probably did all the wrong things anyway. The couple just loved, you know, my shots. It was the first time that I took them out in a field and you know, and that sort of started that, that ball rolling and that was probably, I don't know, 94, 95 or something, you know what I mean? So. Okay, yeah, but. Yeah, it was crazy. But when, but when we were in our last week on our trip, we, we spent, we purposely spent some extra time and spent a bit of extra money in ear. So we were camped up on the side of the volcano in one of those beautiful white things. It was like sort of our, you know, treat to ourselves before coming back. But then I were, I. I wrote out a bit business plan for studio impressions. And then I came up with the idea, you know, what is that like at the time at the riverside markets each Sunday, I think it was on the river in Brisbane that they would have these incredible markets and you know, and I thought, oh man, it must cost so much money to have a market store, you know, but maybe I could have a market store and sell prints there for my trip and, and then maybe display some, some things. And to my belief, you know, disbelief, they said when I got back, yeah, we'd love to have you at a market store. You can do that. Photography is really cool. There was two or three other photographers there and they, I think it was like 30 or $40 to have a stand. And the thing was is that you were in front of tens of thousands of people every Sunday. And that's how I started studio impressions. So I had like a wedding book. We, I sold prints. I would like print during, you know, the week and mount them up, sell these European prints. And it's funny because I'll go to someone's house and one's hanging in, you know, in their house and, and things like that from there. And yeah, so it was cool. And it's funny, you know, you know, it was, it was a cool way, you know, to, to start a business. I gave myself like six months to be there. And then even back then, even the Photographers that were selling Australiana prints, that's the only thing that said, they said, oh, you won't sell anything because it's all European stuff and people just want to take away a souvenir. And it was interesting. It's just, you know, one of those times when people said to me that, you know, like, it's not going to happen. And it happened, it seemed, seemed to [02:02:59] Speaker C: be a common thing. I can distinctly remember being told when I wanted to get started that by, by the established photographers in Benio and they weren't, they weren't trying to be mean or anything like that. They were just at a different stage in their career and they'd seen a progression in photography and they said, you can't make money in photography anymore. It's, it's done. The good days are over. Everyone's a photographer now. If, you know, if you want, I'd recommend just getting a job, do something else or whatever. That, that was basically the, the advice that I got from multiple photographers that were the, the leading photographers in our town. And, and yeah, I don't begrudge them for it because I just, I can see where they were coming from because they had probably had a more successful career previously and it was getting harder and so they, they could see that as like, hey, why would you start now? That's it's, it's not as easy as it used to be. Yeah, but, but then, yeah, I mean, we, we went great. So it's like, I think that's a common thing is people sort of explain their own experience. You know, maybe their, their travel photos didn't sell well, but that doesn't mean yours wouldn't. You know what I mean? Maybe their travel photos didn't speak for anybody, but they're Australiana ones. [02:04:19] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. And I think that's what was really important is that like having that first show, there was a huge lead up to it. It just didn't happen overnight. There was like, you know, a lot of work behind the scenes and a lot of little steps that got me into my first show. And it's probably, I don't know if it's a reference regret or it's just something, you know, I just probably just ended up going a different way after that. You know, I got so involved in the weddings and, you know, because it has been a huge love of my life, you know, weddings, and it still is, but now, you know, I realize, you know, like, with the personal work, it's really important to me as well, because you Know, I'll say, you know, I'll do that next year and then 10 years goes past. So I'm probably just sort of, you know, catching up a little bit now with, you know, putting my. That personal work out there. Now [02:05:12] Speaker C: can we, can we, can we have a look through maybe one of your series that's more recent, that's on your website? Is there one that you'd like to. That particularly you'd like to have a chat about or. [02:05:22] Speaker A: Yeah, we could, we could probably even talk about the Shades of Darkness one because it's probably like a little bit darker, as in content as such. [02:05:32] Speaker C: Let me just see if I can make this fit my screen. I'll be one second. I was having a look at this this morning and it made me want to go back to Japan to go back to the snow. Where are we? [02:05:47] Speaker A: Japan is. Yeah. So this is a great, great image to start with. So I've always been like a reactive, I guess, photographer. You know, I see things and then it might give me an idea to, you know, expand the idea or, you know, re. Look at it in a different way. But obviously sometimes I find that I, by seeing it or an inkling of it first sparks that idea and I guess like learning a lot from a lot of these traditional contemporary art photographers throughout the world and, and I've got to meet quite a few and talk them is that they always tend to have like a. A very form formula in how they go about creating a body of work is where they sort of think about like a, you know, like a write an artist statement first and then go through all the ideas and then shoot for it where a lot of the time I'll have all these ideas just sort of floating in my head and, and it was really refreshing a few years ago actually to. To be chatting to Victoria Cooper, Doug Spout's partner. And we're at like a gallery in Brisbane, Moored Gallery, which is, if you haven't been there, it's such a great space. And, and I was telling about this dilemma where I feel very, you know, reactive in. In my approach. And she goes, oh my God, I just wrote a PhD about exactly that. Because she sort of felt important. And here I was, I was thinking I was doing everything wrong and here he's, you know, producing this incredible PhD about exactly that. And so it gave me a lot of scope about like, you know, thinking about this body of work. And for me, what I found, what drew me to weddings was the death of my dad, you know, but then also, you Know, the birth of my son and, and, and the twins after that and, and the joyous times in life. So not just, you know, the deepest, hardest things in my life, but also the things that have just given me, you know, life. Enlightening that. And I guess from an early age, like, I think, you know, we all go through different things. We also find, even from when I was working at the bank and being scared to go travel, we always have these things that confront us. So I guess for me, this series was about all of those things throughout my life that. That. That have been confronting. And so for. This image is a. For me, it's a reflection of. Whilst I think, you know, it's for. A reflection of, for me how I see my dad in the world at the moment where he would love to be a part, you know, of all our lives, but he's trapped on the outside and, and we're sort of, you know, unaware and just sort of inside. You know, people seeing this image will have, like, lots of different. Different sort of narrations of what they think it is, but for me, it's. It's about, you know, a different person's perspective on rather being about me and, and my siblings, you know, what we lost, but it's also about what my dad lost and how much I would imagine he would love to be a part of our lives, but he's just sort of unable to be. Yeah. Wow. [02:09:23] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a really beautiful, Powerful, beautiful, beautiful image. [02:09:29] Speaker C: Yeah, it's definitely if. If one word came to my mind, it. To me, it. The word that came to my mind when I first saw it was loneliness. But, yeah, that's right. It's a powerful image, This series. [02:09:49] Speaker A: So [02:09:52] Speaker C: how does a series come about for you when you say, you know, don't necessarily go out with intention at the beginning, with an artist statement prior to creating your body of work. So how does a series like this evolve for you? [02:10:11] Speaker A: Well, I guess the different. Well, I suppose that it's still very similar in however photographers approach things. But it's just all of these ideas and thoughts are just rattling in my head and then when, like, the opportunity presents itself to shoot, I go, oh, my God. Like, this is where I could be doing this and this could, you know, fits in with these ideas and, And I think it's probably not much different to when we're doing street photography and other things, is that we're drawn to something and we go, oh, my God, this, this, this is lining up. And, you know, this is the way I see the Reflected. And, and so all of these elements are just sort of coming together. And so I guess it's not sort of like, definitely like, like a happy accident at all. It's far from that. It's sort of like getting a lot more serious and, and thinking about it as well. And so even like, just sort of, you know, I think it's funny like, you know, with this image, like, all of them, you know, like, I like, I hate, like, you know, getting older in summer, you know, regards. Like, I. I look at myself, you know. Well, actually, I didn't even recognize the guy. I look, you know, that when the mirror comes up, I don't even recognize that guy. Like, I see someone that's 30, just, you know, just love, you know, everything. And, and this is what this image is for me about, is that like the ladies holding come out of a bottle shop and, you know, you know, older and, you know, but then there's this really youthful sort of person rushing past and things like that. And, and here's a person like, you know, in the later part of their life, sort of like a bit envious, you know, of the youth maybe that they've lost or. And things like that. And, and. And with the previous images, where they're reading the maps is. It's like, you know, often it's like sort of, you know, how many crossroads do we come through, you know, in life that we don't know which way to turn and we. We mull on it. And sometimes we spend way too much time mulling on which way to turn. We forget to actually take a direction at all. You know, sometimes we just have to go for it, you know, and just, you know, take a. Take a leap of faith, you know, and going beyond. And so for me, that was the idea of, you know, you know, when capturing this image is, you know, telling that part of the story. [02:12:42] Speaker C: Phil Thompson says, very powerful, emotional images with heaps of incredible atmosphere. Love the. The wider point of views that tell a story in themselves. [02:12:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Thank you. [02:12:56] Speaker C: Was this. So where were these images shot and. And over what time period? [02:13:02] Speaker A: Well, actually, these were shot over a couple days in, In Banff. Originally. The. There was no snow on the ground. Like, we. When we arrived the very first day, there was no snow. And then it snowed through the entire night and I went out. I just couldn't sleep, and I just went out and Sasha and I just started finding all these scenes and, and then coming across people and sort of. So there's some direction involved and, and things like that. I Remember, like, along. I think it's the river. And I was laying down on a path, photographing this lady with a dog. And then she'd pass by, but I was still laying down. And. And there was these two joggers walking past, and they were really worried seeing me on the ground and going, man, are you okay? Are you okay? We're just checking on. But on you. And I said, yeah, man, this is amazing. And then even, you know, talking to, you know, the lady that went past as well, I said, oh, my God, this is just so beautiful. And. And she was a local. And she said, yeah, no, we love it too. She said, today will be a. What we call a snow day, so no one will be going to. To school or anything like that. And. And we don't get. She said, we don't get these days very often. Normally it's like a gradual thing, but not like a huge dump like this. So. So it was pretty magical, like. Yeah. And everything like that. So it was cool. [02:14:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:14:30] Speaker B: They're amazing. The. The mood of each shot and, you know, the connectedness of the series is really powerful. [02:14:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [02:14:40] Speaker B: One image speaks to the next. [02:14:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. For me, this one, you know, is about relationships. I think, like, relationships in. Throughout life is really difficult, you know, and there's always challenges and things that we need to address and things like that. So, you know, this symbolism for me is just sort of about not always agreeing or, you know, and sometimes making wrong decisions and, you know, and so it's sort of just that tension between the, you know, the two people, you know, and, you know, maybe either of them aren't right. You know what I mean? But it's maybe a crossroads at that time, like, in your life where things aren't working and. But it doesn't mean that they weren't not work. Yeah. [02:15:33] Speaker C: When you come across a scene like this. [02:15:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:15:37] Speaker C: How does creating this shot unfold? Like, how many images might you have taken in this one spot? Did you have to wait for the characters or did you happen across these characters and have to react fairly quickly to this scene? [02:15:53] Speaker A: Yeah. With this scene, because of the light in the early hours, hours of the morning, it was probably about 20 shots that I took of this area or this scene, but just being patient. But then I realized that I needed to move, you know, quickly. So, you know, I was sort of doing a sort of. I did revisit, you know, this spot as you're in, like, towards the end from a different perspective. Yeah. So it's sort of, again, working quickly. But I always sort of have ideas in mind of, you know, what I'm looking for. And then trying to just obviously, you know, waiting for people and things like that, and then. But there might. There was another flip out behind me. I go, oh, you know, could you walk past this way or. And things like that. And people were just really willing to do that, so it was cool. [02:16:44] Speaker C: Wow. Okay. And so you're. You're more than happy to have people stroll through like that, like, ask them to, to wander through, because you have a. You have an idea in your head, an image in your head that you want to try and create and. [02:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:16:59] Speaker C: To direct that a little bit. [02:17:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And generally because I saw it happen and maybe I like, you know, wasn't already presented. Right. You know, but then it actually happens on a wedding day all the time. You know, I mean, like, I'll be the. Someone walk past during the prep, you know, this door with this shaft of light and, oh, my God, that looks so cool. And then I just. It becomes a mental note. And then during that, that time when we've got the bride, I said, look, do you mind walking past here? They don't know what my vision is. Or I might even just say, oh, let's go down here with the idea that I was going to get them to walk through that area anyway. And that was the shot. You know what I mean? And so it's the same sort of, you know, using those sort of same skills. And I think that's where I've been fortunate. Like, everything that I've learned in landscape photography that I brought into weddings, everything that I've learned from weddings, I bring into my personal work and, and landscapes and. And so forth. Like here. Yeah. And then, so with this shot, like, I, you know, like, it's funny. Well, it's fun. Not funny because a lot of people have different feelings about this. This shot and what it might conjure. Conjure up and, and things like that. And. But for me, it was actually, you know, as a kid, I. I was often just lost and didn't know what I wanted to do with myself, and I was hide away and, and purposely sometimes. You know what I mean? And, and then that. So this was what this shot sort of was representing for me. And. But it's interesting to hear other people's, you know, stories when they see this shot and the emotions that it brings them and the situations, all the. That they've had. So it's. So a lot of this stuff, even while talking about is like, you know, I Try to, you know, leave it up to the viewer really to, for, to have their own story. You know, for me it's just sort of sharing like a thought or an idea or something and allowing them to, you know, share their own part. And I think for me, like the reason why I call it Shades of Darkness is that is because I, you know, I honestly believe all of these times, throughout my whole, whole life, something better happened as a result of experiencing these things. I think, you know, if you to, to achieve like, or to feel pure happiness, you probably need to have been had pure sadness, I guess, you know, to know what happiness is all about. So. And makes those, those moments even stronger and better. So that's why I think, you know, sharing these images isn't just sort of to dwell on sort of scary moments or conjunctions that we may face, you know, find in our lives, but it's actually to that end up transporting us to places that we never thought were possible that are, that are incredible and, and we grow from that. [02:20:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:20:16] Speaker C: Yeah, this, this image has a lot going on. He can definitely interpret a lot of different stories with the elements in it. [02:20:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:20:25] Speaker C: Sorry. For those of you listening on audio, please, if you have a chance, go back and, and, and track this section of the podcast down on YouTube and have a look. Or obviously head to marcusbell.com and have a look at the Shades of Darkness gallery under the series heading. Yeah, the images are just. Oh my gosh, is this real? Oh my gosh. [02:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, so this is real. So like it's like freaky. Like I'm glad that I'm at this end of the street sort of thing. Yeah. You know, so it's so crazy. So. But yeah. [02:21:02] Speaker C: Yeah. Wow, that's just what. Yeah. And you just happened across this as well, like while you were just exploring the darkness. [02:21:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's right. And so I guess that's what happens when you get up super, super early, you know. So this was one of the more earlier images in the, the morning we. Hours like this is like 4:30, like in the morning or something like that, you know, and it wasn't going to get dark till I'm not dark but light till 8 o'. Clock. So. So I was out there for a long time, long period of time. Like for me I just, I just love the snow anyway. Like I just seek it out wherever I can. And for, and for me it's, you know, obviously for us in Australia, like we don't feel this. So and then to be able to, for me to Be able to play as a, as a photographer, you know, and, and as a pro, you know, it's so super exciting and I think that's why you end up putting yourselves and these opportunities. Anyway, like, like someone said earlier, it's, it's generally not luck, it's just because it's all the steps in, in the process that gets you there. And I think that's why I wanted to tell that story about where early on I was, I would go and photograph this, this and everything just to learn. And I think that's what I also got to thank the. That gave us, you know, when I was coming through, you know, because we're such a small country in relative terms of population, is that when we went to a PP events and we're learning about, you know, photography or our discipline is that you couldn't have a dedicated track just about weddings or just about portraits. So, you know, we were, you know, introduced to, you know, marine science, photography, you know, commercial, you know, photography, you know, everything. Photojournalism, you know what I mean? And so you ended up getting this rounded knowledge. And I think that's why I was so, I'm so intrigued in multiple genres, you know, you know, photography and, and why I shoot such variety of work is because I guess that training and that, that knowledge that I had early on on that just sort of, you know, stayed with me and I, and I also also know, like I was saying earlier is what I learn in landscapes, I brought that into weddings, but I bring what I weddings into a situation like this, you know, so it becomes full circle. Yeah, yeah. [02:23:43] Speaker C: Gosh, there's some, yeah, there's some comment. Comments coming in. Anthony Stonehouse says, these are amazing shots. So much story and mood in a single image. Bruce Moyle says magic is the right word and then goes on to say, interesting that you are directing the scene. Street photography is so much about the moment, but I applaud you taking control where appropriate. Yeah. And that is, that is a common thing. [02:24:11] Speaker A: That's what I. [02:24:12] Speaker C: Sorry. Go on, Max. [02:24:14] Speaker A: Well, and I think that's where like I take from, from weddings is that a lot of the time I will try to allow, not allow, but I just, you know, just let things unfold because I just know that the, the end image, if you don't pose someone that it, it's going to generally be 10 times better because they pose themselves and that's. And you're capturing who they are and it's the same. But then there's times when like everything comes together. And the light, this and all that. And then I do take and control and I say, oh, look, I need you to do this and do that. But I do it in. In such a sort of gentle way. And it's so. My approach is so soft because it's just sort of. That's who I am and, you know, as far as my personality goes. And then. So that's how it looks natural. But even though I've had control and I think that's what I've learned in a. In a. In a scene like this is like, you know, to take control, you know, and then be able to do. To do that. So. So that's where it helps. Yeah. [02:25:12] Speaker B: Yep. [02:25:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Matt Palmer says it reminds me a little of Cruise Crudson in terms of mood. And the control works too. [02:25:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Gregory Crudson's been a huge inspiration of my work. And same with, like, Jeffrey Smart over the years, so definitely would have that sort of vibe, you know, sort of, you know, sort of coming through, but just without the. The production, you know, costs, you know, I think, you know, that he brings and. And so perfectly done. What he does is. It's incredible. [02:25:50] Speaker C: Bruce Moyle says, reminds me of the poster for the movie. The thing from the 80s, I think, is that the one with the. The head torch, maybe that we were seeing. I think. I can't remember which one that was. I don't remember. [02:26:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it was when the head torch shot was up. [02:26:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:26:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:26:07] Speaker C: Phil Thompson says, I agree with you, Marcus, regarding the darker times. I'm reminded of a saying of Billy Graham's mountaintops are for views and inspiration, but fruit is grown in the valleys. [02:26:21] Speaker B: That's pretty cool. Yeah, it is. [02:26:23] Speaker C: Greek Stubbings, A feast for the eyes and food for three thought beautiful images. And then everyone else is just, yeah, magic, magic, magic. And Bruce Mo says, yeah, the head torch one. [02:26:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:26:34] Speaker C: Yeah. What a great series. Definitely encourage everyone to go and check that out in their own time up on a bigger screen than this little YouTube video. But, yeah, I was. I was just so interesting to hear that, like, because sometimes personal projects can span years, even decades for some people. And then this was, you know, down to just a few days of shooting. It's just. Yeah, it's so many different forms and. And have you had longer series, obviously, as well, where. Where it's. It's taken time to build a collection. [02:27:08] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Probably one, you know, that it's more around the maps. Like, I would. All my travels, I would often see people, you know, Looking at their devices or reading a physical map and, and things like that. And, and I just love the irony, you know, and I guess because of, you know, feeling often, you know, you know, in those own indecisions in my life where, you know, sometimes it's just sort of trying to again, like, sort of taking that leap of faith. And, and so my idea is to build, you know, a series of images spanning a long period of time around that. So that's still definitely a work in progress as there's all these other projects. I mean, I guess too, that would be really good, like, to, you know, as much as, like, I, I do love the social media side, like, and sharing the work. So it would be good to know from some of the audience what they would love to see more on my feed to, to be posting. So that would probably to. To, you know, to work out what my indecisions or what to post and what not to post. [02:28:16] Speaker C: They probably just. They probably just want to see everything, just post it all. [02:28:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Maybe there's a social media manager like in the audience that could give me a hand. [02:28:26] Speaker C: Hey, now you're talking. They could probably help us too. [02:28:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:28:32] Speaker C: As well. Greg. Greg Stubbings has a question. Marcus, is there a book or major exhibition in your personal work now or in the future? Have you seen thought about taking that leap? [02:28:45] Speaker A: Yeah, you know, like, I think it's always just from time. Like, I mean, I would love to do that. And, and maybe it also, when I say time, it's probably, maybe it's an excuse too, because it'll probably scare the. Out of me of actually, you know, committing and actually doing these things too. So sometimes I'm very good at avoiding. So. But it's definitely something that I, that I really should do, you know, and especially, you know, with the project, the Feed in the sand exhibition, like, I was able to, you know, exhibit that at the Leica Galleries, but also, you know, a dedicated one up here in Brisbane. And the Brisbane one was a lot more expanded and I think we had like 22 images, but I probably probably got like, you know, about 100 images that I could, you know, put in a book. And so I think I definitely. And it was my intention all the way along, so I've just got to find that time to just, you know, work those images. My problem is sometimes I, you know, being a Virgo, a bit of a perfectionist and probably, you know, work the images too much, you know, or spend too much time, you know, getting that final 5%, you know, what I mean, where I could have probably just stopped days or, or weeks and earlier and, you know, or hours, you know, and to be able to complete these projects. So they're probably just the things that have hurdles. So. Yeah, so there's like a lot of self hurdles and just time hurdles. [02:30:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah, I bet it's. And I guess that, is that, Is that a benefit of weddings? Because there is a point with weddings where you can't just keep working the images. Like you've sort of got. You've got a lot of work. If it's summer, like things are flat out and the next wedding's coming up and you've got to edit and it's just like you sort of have to just say that's done now. Whereas personal work, not as much. [02:30:39] Speaker A: And it's probably a good point is that the, the weddings have always been the backbone of who I am and what I do. And I've always, always put the wedding client first in every regard because I really value the. That they instill in me, you know, and so, you know, you hear these stories where, you know, someone hasn't, you know, got their wedding photos for three months, six months. So. So generally like, I like to get the wedding photos to them within a week or two weeks at the most. So I'm really particular. Even though I'll say the to client look, it's probably like three to four weeks. But I just want to, you know, dedicate it. And so I just get so focused. So one of the, probably the, the good and bad habits that I have about myself is that I get very singularly focused. So when I've got that wedding, that's the only thing that's on my mind and it's the only thing I'm gonna do. Other things, you know, has to wait so so often that's, I guess coming back to the personal projects and what's happened for so long is with these personal projects is that I've always put the wedding clients first and I still do. And the good thing about having a few less wedding clients than 10 years ago allows me to manage my time a little bit better. [02:32:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:32:08] Speaker C: Yeah, that's very cool. That's. Yeah, I think that's. It's always going to be the way you have to put clients first and that it just means you unfortunately push aside the, the passion projects. But. But you know, it is. And then winter comes around and you feel you fill your days up with that. [02:32:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:32:26] Speaker C: You're supposed to be having a rest. [02:32:28] Speaker A: Yeah, so true. [02:32:30] Speaker C: Oh, Before I forget. So I've, I've got a very, very small but growing shelf of books. [02:32:36] Speaker A: Oh yeah? [02:32:37] Speaker C: Do you have, do you have a book recommendation, a photography book recommendation that I should add to my shelf? [02:32:43] Speaker A: Yeah, one of my first books, it was a book recommend recommended by Peter Eastway when he was doing his. Well he still does it like his better photography magazine. And it's a book by Eddie Ephraim's Creative Elements. It's a dark room book. It's just incredible because I would, if I was buying that today and getting it, I would be looking and studying it from how I can create these images, you know, digitally, you know what I mean? And it's sort of just a inspirational sort of, you know, of one person's idea of, you know, what images should look like in post production. So he was always doing it in the dark room. But then, you know, you can replicate that later, you know, obviously digitally now. But I think it's a great book. Yeah. [02:33:39] Speaker C: Do you think the other one. Yeah, sorry, go on. [02:33:42] Speaker A: Oh, the other book like, you know, would be like maybe the. The Purple Cow by Seth Godden. It's a great book, you know, so, so good. Yeah. So it's funny, you know, like I guess like through my co. Career like I like I've been naive quite a lot and fell into a lot of things, you know, just by doing things like, and going. And then, then you'd start reading these books and you realize that like by accident you're doing some of these things right or what other people, you know, recommend, you know, it was interesting. So. But it's a good reminder for me, you know, even like after, like it's funny because like the art world is such a different space. Obviously it's not like it's a very, you know, sought after and, and particular sort of space and it's a new world for me. And then I guess because. And then I'm learning and thinking about all the things that sort of either happened by accident or, or purposely did like you know, building my wedding career. But how going back all those years and how that could apply now and what, what, how I should be, you know, telling the world about that and be better at that. You know what I mean? So, so that's one of the things that I learned from is that if you've been in this industry for a while, you know, going back and thinking about what worked, you know, through previous times, it could probably work actually fantastically now. Now especially when you get trends come in and go like like now I was reading like. Like on social media, that it's actually cool to have a messy grid. You know what I mean? Like, where for years you had to everything be the same, but I didn't understand how everything could be the same, because if you look at movie directors is that they go from one movie to another, and the cinematographers that they work with, they. They have a whole new look to that film from the previous. So generally it's not always the same, but when you're looking at a photographer's grid, it's like. It's like the same movie being played over and over again. Where for me, like, I. I want to see life as, like a. As a movie and not. And. But multiple movies, you know, I mean, and everything's different. And that's what I think life is. It's. It's never the same. [02:36:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I'm a big fan of the school of thought around, you know, learn the rules, learn the expectations of the craft, and then break them all. Purposely. Go out and break them all and learn what you can about, you know, how you format compositions, where you put people in the grid. Yeah, it's. And sometimes it can be hard to break free of that stuff, especially if you've been trained, you know, in. Here's the. Here's the thirds. You know, you put them here, you put this there. It's interesting to see when people purposely break those rules. I think it's wonderful. [02:36:41] Speaker A: Especially, like, I mean, talking composition and especially when you start getting into, like, things like dynamic symmetry and things like that. It's just like, blows your mind, you know, and. And going down those rabbit holes. You mean, like, you know, like. Yeah, so it's. It's. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. [02:37:00] Speaker C: There's so much to. I. Yeah, I think I heard you. I was listening to something. You were. It might have been a Nikon podcast or something. You were talking about dynamic symmetry and the Fibonacci sequence and things like that. Yeah, I was making notes of things that I need to research and, like. [02:37:16] Speaker A: Yeah. So when in the back of my mind, I want to learn a lot more about Leonarda Vinci and like, like. And also like the flower of life and how it sort of symbolizes, like, you know, pretty much everything and the sequences, like, going back into the Fibonacci and how that just is replicated so naturally throughout the world and. And, you know, like, there's. There's a guide there, like, in the key of. To the. The secrets of life, but I just haven't figured it out yet. So when I do the show to get on. [02:37:47] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll get you back on. [02:37:48] Speaker C: And tell us a little secret, please. That'd be amazing. David de Parker says Eddie was an old friend. You can see me standing on a cliff in that book. [02:38:00] Speaker A: No way. [02:38:01] Speaker C: Eddie was also a bit of a philosopher. [02:38:04] Speaker A: That's awesome. [02:38:06] Speaker B: That's really cool. [02:38:07] Speaker A: That is so cool. [02:38:10] Speaker C: Anything else, Greg? I think we've covered most of my notes. I mean, we could keep on rolling forever, but I've got Leica gear to ogle over on the Internet now. [02:38:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I've already loaded up some pages, spare tabs. So it 32. What am I looking at? It 32. I'm looking again at the Q3. [02:38:31] Speaker C: So, yeah, borrow mine. Make sure you borrow. [02:38:34] Speaker A: Yeah, keep adding to your carts. [02:38:39] Speaker C: You can't add much to a cart on a, like, store without it hitting car and then house prices. I've, I've just, I've got that reporter edition SL3 up on it and the 28 to 70. I'm like, whoa, I would look cool with that. [02:38:57] Speaker A: That would be cool. [02:38:59] Speaker B: Anyway, whilst on the topic of gear, maybe we can close out with this. And Justin has a final question that he asks every guest. But I recently, yesterday actually, I bought a new camera bag after borrowing one from Justin. It helped me decide sort of what I wanted to get for my street photography. When it comes to carrying gear, you know, for you, for either your professional or your personal work, how is it that you get around with your stuff? Are you a backpack person, are you a sling person? [02:39:28] Speaker A: Or do you just walk out with [02:39:29] Speaker B: the cameras in your hand? [02:39:31] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. This is like a tricky question because, like, whatever I say, I'm just going to get in, get in trouble. I've got way too many camera bags. Like, I've got probably, I don't know, 30 camera bags, I think I would say, of varying different sizes. My, my, my wife has been at me for the last 15 years saying, you know what, why don't you just bite the bullet and just design a bag yourself? For me? For me, the perfect bag would be three or four bags in one bag where you sort of take out a compartment that you'd need for just when you're carrying, like during the wedding. Another for when, you know, like, maybe it has two or three bags in it. Like, you know, for when you're actually traveling on the plane and in carry on, you know, there's like, there's so many different situations at the moment. I'm carrying this Actually North Face, tiny little padded little bag. So often like a. And it just fits perfectly. My profoto flash, three lenses, the batteries and everything. So slimline. And it's just sort of like a tiny little shoulder bag. They're saying that, like, I've got two other camera bags that, like, everything else goes back into, you know. Yeah. So it's a complicated question because, like, I have too many bags. Yeah. I'm still searching for the right bag. [02:41:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, Julie. Julie Powell agrees. You're not a photographer until you have dozens of bags. [02:41:09] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [02:41:10] Speaker A: But the problem is, is this has also gone into collecting records. You can have it. Never have enough records. Also, like, stereo in my office. Like, I have like six sets of speakers. And because it's the philosophy of the different lenses, all these speakers differently. I then have like different. About four different vintage amps. You know what I mean? And then I rotate things through and. Anyway, and it's because of being. You know, what I've learned at Leica, you can apply these to up things and. And yeah, it's pretty. Pretty crazy. [02:41:50] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. There are a lot of parallels in the music world. And, you know, I played a lot of guitar. Not very good at it. You know, you've got. You've got the instrument side of things. But then I used to be an audio engineer for a while and there was a. There was a book called. What was it called? Mixing with your mind about audio engineering. And it was very. I don't know, the best way. Conceptual, not technical. And he, like, he even went to the point of. So microphones would often have 20, 30, 40 microphones in a recording studio that. That are. Yeah, all like. They're like using lenses to capture light, but it's kind of like. Yeah. Anyway, and he would recommend you going through and. And listening to every single one and putting a piece of tape on them and writing a hardness value on them. And then you would match hardness to softness with different instruments and things like that. All the. Anyway, it's so similar in that regard. [02:42:50] Speaker A: So true. [02:42:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Every piece of the chain. You know, with cameras you've got. You've got lenses. You can put filters on front of the lenses, you've got the sensor and then you've got your processing and all that sort of stuff. And same with film. You can choose film. And it was the same kind of thing. Every piece of the chain. You could choose a different element to affect the. The final output. Yeah, it's very interesting. [02:43:12] Speaker B: It is. [02:43:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:43:13] Speaker B: No, it's. [02:43:13] Speaker A: It's Unreal. So I. I guess too, like. So I would, you know, if anyone. Like a takeaway for, for anyone is if you hadn't tried it before, like, you know, grab yourself a vintage, you know, lens. You know, these days you can easily adapt them, you know, you don't have to spend a lot of money. Money. You know, I think what's really cool is that you can get a lens for $20. And then, you know, some vintages lenses go for tens and tens of thousands of dollars and, you know, they're just different, you know, I mean, not. Maybe one's not better than the other, but it gives you a different point of view. So if you haven't tried a vintage, you know, lens before, you know, definitely do it, you know, I highly recommend it. It's super cool. [02:43:56] Speaker B: Yep. [02:43:56] Speaker C: Yeah. Great advice. Great advice. [02:43:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:44:00] Speaker C: What do you reckon, Greg? Should we. Should we call it there? [02:44:03] Speaker B: I think we should call it, but why don't you go ahead and ask your apocalypse question? [02:44:07] Speaker C: I was. I reckon I can guess what it is, but I'll ask anyway. If you. If you. If you had to. If you had to document the end of the world, Marcus, with just one camera and one lens, if you had to run out the door, what. What would you grab? [02:44:22] Speaker A: Well, you know, I. I still got my dad's camera, so I would take that. And so it's a Yashika Lynx 14. So it's got a fixed 50 mil or 45 mil lens on it, 1.4. And. And it's got a light meter. So I had to learn from the Kodak box, remember, you know, like the sunny pictures and things like that. I had to. That's how I learned about, you know, exposure. And so, yeah, I would. I would probably take that camera and I would make sure that it was a. It was a slow, you know, burn, you know, of the world going down. So because I'll, you know, to shoot film, I would need to do it in slow mo. [02:45:12] Speaker C: Just one shot. One shot a month or something, just to kind of let it unfold. Yeah. Nice. Good. Well, that's not the answer I was expecting. I was expecting with the 28 to 70. So you. Surprise. That's a. Yeah, great answer. 50 mils. A good focal length, too, for keeping enough distance between you and the. Whatever's causing the end of the week. [02:45:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Look, Marcus, I think it's fair to say that you've left everyone, us included, with a lot to think about. After today's discussion and learning about your journey, many facets of it are so inspirational. Not just the wanting to buy new gear bit, but how you approach your craft, how you've defined yourself as a grand master of photography. On behalf of all of us here and obviously our viewers, we thank you so much for your time today and for, you know, giving us a little inside look into, into how you got to where you are. [02:46:12] Speaker A: Thank you. No, it's been so good to, you know, to be chatting to you guys and just sort of sharing and, and hopefully if like anything, you know, that I talked about today helps and resonates with someone else and you know, with their journey, you know, like just, just glad to help. Yep. [02:46:29] Speaker C: That's wonderful. [02:46:30] Speaker A: We really appreciate it. [02:46:31] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. But we are going to draw close to today's show, folks. We've, we've almost pushed to the three hour mark somehow. I don't know how that happened. It just. Time just went like that. But guys, don't forget to check out Marcus's work. There's a few sites. There's obviously his, his personal Marcus Bell site, which is marcuspell.com and then there is. [02:46:55] Speaker A: Let me just bring it up. [02:46:56] Speaker B: Where did I put it? I know, I've lost it. [02:46:58] Speaker C: I got it. Studio, studioimpressions.com. [02:47:01] Speaker A: there you go. [02:47:02] Speaker B: Thank you. [02:47:02] Speaker C: Weddings and commercial. And you can find both of those on Instagram as well. Well at Studio Impressions or at Marcus Bell. Yeah, go check all that stuff out. And otherwise, if you weren't here live with us, leave a comment below after the show and let us know what you thought or any questions. We can always reach out to Marcus and see if he can answer any later questions, any follow ups on anything that we chatted about. But yeah, that was, that was epic. Thank you so much. That's a lot of time. That's probably, probably half a quarter of a wedding edit that could have been completed. [02:47:33] Speaker A: So we appreciate it. Yeah, this was the, the reception. [02:47:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, pretty much. But let's, let's roll the music and say good, say goodbye to some people. Justin. [02:47:46] Speaker C: Let's do that. Wow. Our strange reggae song is back. We've missed it. I've missed this song. It's been gone the whole time I've been in Bali. Yeah. Julie Po. Thank you. Paul Henderson says, thanks for sharing my Marcus. Great show, guys. Greg Stubbings. Wonderful chat. Thanks, gents. Matt Palmer. Thanks again for the great chat, fellas. Rodney Nicholson says, great show, inspiring. Bruce Moyle says, thanks Marcus. And guys, Phil Thompson says, another fantastic show, guys. With lots of inspiration and encouragement from listening to Marcus David Dare Parker says, nice work, gentlemen. Marcus, great to see you again. My friend Bruce Moyle says Marcus's next example exhibition is the Bag collection. Philip Johnson. Thanks, Justin. Greg, special thanks to Marcus. Rodney Nicholson said, it's creative collecting, I think, with lenses. [02:48:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:48:35] Speaker C: Thanks everybody and we'll see you guys in the next one. Thanks. Felicity Johnson, Greg Thomas, everybody else that was here today, I don't know if I've missed you. We appreciate you being in the live chat and if you're listening later, we'll catch you, you guys, in the next one. Thanks, Marcus. [02:48:52] Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks, guys. Be safe.