Mastering Black and White Street Photography Phil Austin (EP217)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam. [00:00:25] Speaker B: Well, g' day everybody and welcome back to the Camera Life podcast. It is Thursday 17th September, and of course being a Thursday morning, we welcome you to sit and listen to our interview. But just before we get to our guest, I just want to address the elephant in the room, or the lack of the elephant. That's right, the heir to my tires. Justin Castles can't join us this morning. He's uh, he's a little bit busy, he's got a bit going on and uh, so I've given him the day off at. That's the kind of guy I am. I'm very generous, very generous. But anyway, we are here to talk to yet another amazing photographer. Today we are joined by UK born, Sydney based street photographer, Phil Austin. G' day mate, how are you? [00:01:04] Speaker A: Good, thank you very much for having me on. How are you? [00:01:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, doing okay. Doing okay. Always great to chat to another street photographer, you know, and to, to find out what makes you, what makes you tick and, and you know, how you got into this. So we're going to uncover all of that. But before we do, let's kick off with a question about your art practice. [00:01:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:29] Speaker B: So going through your work, anyone can see that obviously you prefer to shoot your street in black and white only. I think I found one color image so far on your Instagram feed that was just behind the scenes shot of your camera, you know, making that bold choice to stick to one particular style of image outcome, such as monochrome. Where did that stem from for you? What led you to make that kind of decision and stick to it? [00:01:59] Speaker A: I mean, I started off in color, but every, every person who I look to for inspiration always shot black and white. And the more I looked at it, the more I realized that I wasn't after color, I was after tones, I was after mood. And I just felt like black and white. I mean, I've only been doing this for a couple of years, so, you know, I'm a bit, probably a little bit naive. All the people who I followed were black and white. So, you know, the obvious example I think would be probably Alan Shaller, who I respect a lot of his work. Bresson obviously. [00:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:45] Speaker A: And then another couple of Aldi people from the 30s, Brassai, who did a lot of work, night work in Paris in the 30s and just sort of went from there really. And, and the sort of night work now I'm talking about is probably something I want to do more of and I don't do enough of. [00:03:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I kind of feel the Same. It's interesting. You know, I. I love photographing during the day. I love golden hours, but I love any time during the day to get out with my camera. But the night times, I don't feel as. I don't know if safe is the right word. Maybe I don't just don't feel as confident being out in the streets, you know, after dark. You know, I live in the city, and it can be a bit of a. We're just talking just before we went live, you know, it can be a bit of a rough area. There can be some. Some crime going on, obviously, being in a city. But that is definitely something that's on my to do list as well, is just to get out more at night and make. [00:03:35] Speaker A: I mean, signal's pretty good, to be honest. I mean, in. In the. In the CBD and even around Chinatown, it's. I've never felt. I mean, safety and numbers and all that. There's always lots of people around. [00:03:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:48] Speaker A: And you just sort of blend in, I guess. [00:03:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That's the ideal approach, isn't it? You don't want to stand there with a super telephoto lens and, you know, stick out like a sore thumb. [00:03:58] Speaker A: Definitely not. [00:04:00] Speaker B: And you know, that the. You talked about, you know, going for mood and tonal values with your monochrome approach. How do you think that monochrome best describes mood in an image when someone views it? What. What are some of those elements that you look for that you try to adapt, whether it be before or after editing, to get that look? [00:04:24] Speaker A: I mean. Yeah, a good question. I mean, I think. I mean, I always sort of underexpose my work, so I've got lots to play with when I get back into the editing. So I do edit purely for the fact that I underexpose. And I just think it brings out more. More expression in people's faces, people's actions. And. And if. If I'm shooting with a particularly sort of wide angle, I go down to like a 21. Just getting all of the. This stuff that's going on, the story behind the person I'm trying to do the candid shot of, really, [00:04:58] Speaker B: just on that point. I prefer candid photography. My belief is that as soon as we approach someone to either take a photo or ask to take a photo, their behavior changes. That candid moment is lost. [00:05:12] Speaker A: I don't think I've ever asked anyone for a photo. [00:05:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I was gonna. Yeah, well, that was gonna be my next question. Do you ever approach people and it's not never part of your approach. Yeah, no, it is. [00:05:24] Speaker A: I don't think. I don't think I have the. I don't think I've got the balls to do it, to be honest. [00:05:30] Speaker B: It's nerve wracking, isn't it? You know, we approach strangers, you know, every day of our lives, whether it be to, you know, someone at the shops or someone at the supermarket or, you know, the petrol station, whatever it may be. But when it comes to taking a photo of someone, there is a barrier there and I. I feel it just as much. Yeah, Very rare that I'll. Yeah. That I'll actually say, hey, you know, your look is amazing. Can I. Can I take your photo? If anything, I've had people approach me and say, are you taking photos? You can take my photo if you want. That's happened a few times, which is quite bizarre. [00:06:01] Speaker A: It's never happened to me. I thought people see me with a camera and they say, can you take a photo of us without. With my phone? And that's about as far as it's gone. [00:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I get that too. I do. I don't know if this is. Other photographers feel this too, but when I'm out in public and I see, obviously, tourists or people new to Melbourne taking photos and taking turns to hold the camera and do, like this rotation in a small group, do you feel compelled to offer help as a photographer? And I wonder if others do. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Yes, I do. I think I do. I mean, I do a lot of work around Sydney Opera House and you're sort of. I wouldn't say you're inundated, but there are certainly lots of people who would like you to take a photograph of their group or that couple or whatever. Some of them are getting married, some of them. You know, there's. There's a couple on holiday, honeymoons, all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, it's. I quite like doing it, actually, because a lot of them at the Opera House during the day, you know, they're taking photos of the Opera House and the bridge and the sun's coming straight at them because that time of day is the busiest and they don't see it. They don't see it like. Like that. And the photos are normally rubbish, so just getting them to go away from the sun makes a big difference to them. [00:07:13] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right, very cool. Before we dive more into your story, Phil, I want to say good morning to the few people that are in the chat. If you're watching or listening along with us right now live, this is the camera Life podcast. We do this twice a week. Every Monday evening, 7:30pm, we have our random photography show where we talk about industry news, events, but we also talk about your images. That's right, you can send in your images. We'll bring them up on a Monday night show and we'll have a chat about them while you watch, live from the comfort of your lounge room or wherever you may be. And then, of course, every Thursday morning, we have our interview show where we talk to amazing local and international guests about their craft, their inspiration and, and what got them into this in the first place. But saying g' day to some people. Excuse me, Philip. Philip Johnson's in the chat. Always first. G', Day, Philip. Hope you're well. 22 days to be fop, everyone. Lucinda. Good morning, gang. G'. Day. Phillips back. I hope Justin sent a note. He did. He sent me a note last night and then he sent me another one this morning offering help if I need it. But we, I think Phil and I have ironed out all the audio bugs successfully. Robert Varner. G', day, mate. Hope things are well where you are. And of course, Bruce Moyle. Hi, all listening while driving between jobs this morning. G', Day, Bruce. Phil, as is my way, I like to roll back the clock and find out, you know, where this creative passion started for people. And I know you've said, you know, you've only been doing this for a handful of years and I get that, but were there signs early in your childhood or in your, in, you know, growing up at home, were you surrounded by art? Were other people using cameras? Did it, did photography at all interest you as a young man? Over to you. [00:09:02] Speaker A: Not as it, not, not growing up. I mean, my, my parents always had loads and loads of albums, photo albums, I mean, and my father still got, he probably has about 20, 30 albums still under the stairs. But I, I wasn't really drawn towards taking photographs until I left home and I joined the army and I went to some pretty cool places when I was in the army. And that's when I started thinking I should really buy a camera. And I remember buying one of those cameras that had the sort of kaleidoscope. I don't know if you remember them, they had that round 12 shot circle, if you like, you put in the back of a camera and then you got them processed. I mean, pretty terrible quality. But that's, that's how I started off in the 80s. [00:09:50] Speaker B: Yep. [00:09:51] Speaker A: And, and then I started going to the mountains, climbing and, you know, I was, I started going to Some pretty amazing places there. And that's when I bought my first proper camera. I bought a Pentax Spotmatic secondhand from a, from an old shop near where I lived and off I went to Nepal and I, and, and I got talking to some photographers in Nepal at the time and, and they were doing some crazy stuff at the time because, I mean, they were using like, like 100, 200 ISO film during the day and then at nighttime they would, they would mark the shot where they got up to reel it back in, take it out the camera and then put a 4 or 600 ISO in the camera and wind it out to where they got to on the night before. And it was, it was quite laborious stuff to do that at the time. And I've got to say, I never, I never got into that, but I just, I just, I just did day shots. Yeah, but it was, it was really cool and, and I was really into the colors then. I was into Fuji Velvia as my main sort of use of film. And that was great for blues and greens and mountains, what have you. Yeah. And. Yeah, and then it's sort of. There was a lull for a bit and I met, I met a photojournalist on a, on a train trip from. We were doing Beijing to Moscow on the Trans Mongolian Express back in 95. And he had a, he had a Nikon F3. And he's like, I'll sell you it. Because I was asking them all about photography and it was the F3 that really put me into sort of. I'm not going to say unhealthy interest, but more passionate, interesting in photography. [00:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And roughly when did you say this? This was in the 80s. [00:11:47] Speaker A: I bought the F3 in 93 and it was a heavy, a heavy old thing. I had a motor drive on it and I started doing more and more high altitude climbing and carrying that big heavy camera around was a. Was a right pain. People like, what are you doing? But I got up, but I got it up a lot of mountains and I took a lot of photographs with it and in the end it crapped out on me. The light meter went and I tried, I, I knew it had gone and it was, it was at the beginning of a big expedition for three months in Tibet and I tried to use F stops as my control for light and I failed. I failed miserably. So I, I did a power X on a Nikon F90X, which worked well for me for a few years. [00:12:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay, nice. And, and that, you know, the Mountain climbing element, you know, know that obviously that provides you with a unique opportunity, a unique genre to capture, you know, that sort of photography from a different perspective, especially as a climber, you know, did. Were you sharing those images with people around you at the time, or was it purely for your own enjoyment? [00:12:54] Speaker A: Well, I used to use slide film, obviously, with the Velvia, and I used to do slideshows, climbing slideshows, and I found like Rotary Club and, you know, because I used to ask them for money for sponsorship and I used to sell T shirts and stuff to get the money to generate the income to go, and. And the slides are great. But, yeah, I never. And I guess that's where my interest started with taking photographs of people, because, you know, the village people living in the villages that you went through were very interesting people as well, you know, and. And, yeah, but they were heavily photographed at that time and I think even more so now because that mountain tourism now is just off the charts. And I. And I think locals have probably had enough of it all, to be honest. But I was lucky I was there. I'm not going to say in the early days, but in the days before it went a bit crazy. So I started taking photographs of people and I did ask them at the time, kids especially, I'd give them pens and sweets and stuff like that, and they would do anything. They would pause, they would chase animals, they would sit on a cow or a horse or whatever. And. Yeah, and that's. I guess that's where my interest in taking photographs of people started. [00:14:10] Speaker B: Yep. And so were you processing all these images yourself or were you sending the films off? To be. To be. [00:14:16] Speaker A: I was sending the films off. I mean, so I've still got all my slides and I did get them done by a local guy who put them onto a. Onto a hard drive for me, but the quality is pretty rubbish, so I need to get them done again. I might start putting some of that up. Yeah. Properly. [00:14:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a good idea. It's interesting, isn't it, when we have a back catalog of stuff. I've had some lightroom issues and hard drive failures and stuff, and I've only just sort of getting it all back together. But it's amazing how much I miss those old images that I haven't been able to access and I can't wait to get to them and check them out and maybe just that comparison between where I am now and where I was then. Yeah, but that's still a work in progress. And so during These travels. Phil, were you, were you taking leave from work or how did that all fall into. [00:15:08] Speaker A: I mean, I'm. I mean, in the. When I was in the army, I. I was on expeditions and it was, I was paid. But when I left, I became a student. I went back to you. Well, I went to university. I didn't go back. I started in my late 20s and, and I'm an osteopath by profession and I just worked hard to earn enough money to go away. And you. Like two or three months at a time and I'd have someone look after, look after my practice. So I still have a bit of an income coming in while I was away and, and the more I did it, the more I got offered chances to help guide the expedition. So I would. I wouldn't have to pay as much money to, to be on the trips. So it was. I could sort of kill two birds with one stone at the time. [00:15:59] Speaker B: Yeah. Or with a camera in your hand. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Self employment has got its, it's got its upsides about taking time off. [00:16:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it does, yeah. Just as long as it doesn't hurt the, the bottom line too much. Hey. [00:16:12] Speaker A: No, for sure. I haven't done this since I've been in Oz because I'm married now with kids, so I can't do that sort of trip anymore. [00:16:17] Speaker B: So. Yeah, responsibilities. And so, I mean, obviously you had a, A love for travel. [00:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:25] Speaker B: Not only just through your, you know, your time in, in the armed forces, but then obviously afterwards doing these tours and mountain climbing. Did you ever. When digital came in, which was what, late 90s, early mid-90s, something around that. Lost track of all time. [00:16:44] Speaker A: Well, I was in 2001, I was on Everest from the Tibet side and I saw my first digital camera at that point and the quality was shocking. I mean, the noise was terrible. So I didn't have any interest in going towards digital at that point, to be honest, because I just knew I'd be very disappointed. [00:17:07] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Yeah, that's fair. And you know, we've spoken to other guests who have had that similar sort of journey of going from film to digital and, and I think it was Jason Lau who he talked to quite some time ago now, he's an Aussie photographer in Melbourne here, about how he went from film to digital. He learned in a dark room and went from film to digital, but ended up going back to film. Wow. Same sort of reason, I can understand that for sure. Quality just wasn't there. It just didn't stand up to what could be achieved with, with film cameras back then and obviously now things are very different. And we will talk a little bit about your current gear, but we'll do that towards the end of our conversation. [00:17:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:48] Speaker B: Where were we? Mountains. Osteopathy. [00:17:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:53] Speaker B: So you went from an early career in the armed forces to also being a photographer, you know, a passionate photographer. During your travels, where did osteopathy come in and what was the, what was the motivation to move into that line of, line of a career? [00:18:11] Speaker A: Well, I was in the f. I was in, I was in for a good. I was in for nine years and in that time I started off in the role engineers and then I became interested in physical training and health. So I became a physical training instructor and from that I got interested in injuries and taping and strapping and rehabilitation and, and because I left school with nothing. I left school when I was like 16. I went back to night school in the army and they, they sort of paid for it. So I got my, I got my sort of HSC equivalents while I was in the army and then I applied at that time to do a degree of any description. I just, I was, I knew I was going to get out and, but I managed to get a scholarship to do osteopathy in, in a local, in a local university. [00:19:02] Speaker B: Oh wow. [00:19:03] Speaker A: And I just, and I just thought it was fit. I mean I, I wasn't originally down, I applied but I told. I wasn't in the, the final three. Two people dropped out and I got offered, I got offered a thing. So I just thought it's too good to turn down. So off I went at the age [00:19:21] Speaker B: 28. Okay. Yeah. Mature age student we call it now, don't we? [00:19:25] Speaker A: Yeah, it was a good, it being a mature student's pretty cool. I, I have to say I enjoyed it. [00:19:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I bet. And you know, I think it also makes a huge difference. I, I regret not traveling out of high school once I finished. My sister did, she went and like, you know, got a, took a year and a half to herself and you know, traveled the world, got a, you know, around the world ticket. I don't know if they even do those still these days, but you could just. I think they do plan it. Do they? Yeah. I wasn't sure but I just remember how big a deal it was because it was such an expensive thing to buy back then. Sort of an open ended ticket. [00:20:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:02] Speaker B: And at what point did you move from the UK out to Australia? Where, whereabouts in the journey did that happen? Was that before or was that after. [00:20:10] Speaker A: No, no, no. So I did my uni in the UK and then when I finished, I got a job offer to work. I finished, I finished my course in 97 and I got a job offer in New Zealand and I'd always wanted to go to New Zealand. I had a good friend at college who was a Kiwi and he's like, you've got to go visit New Zealand. So I went there with my ex wife and we were there for two years. I wanted to stay. I absolutely loved it. Yeah, I integrated into the, into the Kiwi way of life very easily, as I have here. And. But my ex wife, she wanted to go, she wanted, she missed her family and stuff in the UK too much, so we ended up moving back, but again I was interested in the, the landscape photography in New Zealand with the volcanoes and the mountains and, and, and at that point I, I can't remember what camera I had then. I think I still had the F3. And yeah, that's another place where I started to really get into the photography on the net on another level. Yeah, I never didn't have my phone, my camera, basically. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, that's interesting. And so you went back to the UK and then at what point did you, did you come back out here? [00:21:31] Speaker A: So I went back in 2000. Well, just before. Yeah, just before the Y2K. And I spent six years working, doing a lot of mountaineering, doing a lot of climbing and, and then I met, got divorced, separated. And after a few years I met my, my current wife and we ended up moving to Sweden for seven years. So we lived in Stockholm for seven years. Wow. And the photography wasn't such a big thing there because I was trying to get a business going and I was working hard and we had our first child and, and what have you. But I do go back to Stockholm most, most years and I do a lot of street photography in Stockholm now. It's fun, it's a fantastic place for street photography. [00:22:23] Speaker B: And so what was the motivation originally to go there? Was it a. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Well, my, my wife, my wife's didn't want to stay in the uk. She's not from the uk, so she, she, her mother was Swedish and I said, well, I don't want to, I don't want to leave my family. My mother was terminally ill at the time, so I didn't want to go too far to us. She wanted to come to Australia. So we ended up. We were only supposed to be there for a couple of Years, but we ended up there. Seven. Seven years, yeah. And then we moved to Australia in 2013. [00:22:55] Speaker B: And throughout that time in, in Sweden, you know, were you, were the mountains still calling? Were you still heading up the mountain when you. [00:23:04] Speaker A: Ah, no, I was on. I was actually on my first fully sponsored paid mountain mountaineering trip with a, with a friend of mine from the US who was a. He was a filmmaker and my wife was pregnant with our first child and we made the decision that I was going to stop it and not do anymore any of the high altitude stuff anyway. [00:23:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Responsibilities. [00:23:28] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and I've done a lot and I didn't. I mean, I still had a yearning, but, you know, I was happy with what I'd done. [00:23:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And does it still call to you these days? [00:23:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I still go to the mountains, but I don't do anything crazy. I've just come back from Scotland. I did a climbing trip to Scotland, that. Which the weather put a bit of a kibosh on. I, I go to Patagonia occasionally, but that's again, nothing, nothing too dangerous at all. You know, risk assessed. [00:23:59] Speaker B: Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah. [00:24:02] Speaker A: But, and again, but now I'm interested in the photography now, so just to take some good photos is more of an appeal than getting to the top of a mountain now, to be honest, I'd rather take photographs of them than sort of be on them. [00:24:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. That's fair. And I just going back to what you said earlier about New Zealand being, you know, such a, such an inspirational place for landscape work. You know, so many, a lot of the guests that we've had on the show, Aussie guests mostly, but a lot of those and even a lot of, you know, people in our community. It's, it's, there's something about New Zealand that they just keep going back to time and time again because it is so accessible for Australia. You know, it's only to get there and that, you know, just the quality of the images that come out of landscape photography in New Zealand is quite staggering. [00:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah, agree. [00:24:54] Speaker B: You know, it's one of the most beautiful places on the planet. I think it's fair to say, you know, it's a fairly safe country. [00:25:01] Speaker A: It is. [00:25:02] Speaker B: And it's a shame that we have to have that risk assessment. You called it a moment ago, even as photographers, especially as street photographers, where we have to make sure that we keep ourselves safe, that we're, you know, we're not taking undue risk. [00:25:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:18] Speaker B: It's a, it's sad that we have to have that sort of assessment in the back of our mind. And I do it as a street photographer here in Melbourne. I, I, you know, I have certain times that I won't be out on my local area in South Yarra, on Chapel Street. Like, I won't be out there after 7:30 because it just gets a bit too crazy and a bit too scary. People start screaming. [00:25:35] Speaker A: Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I, I do it on good feeling. Like if it doesn't feel good and I'm not inspired, then I just, I stop and leave. Like yesterday I went out, I had a break from, from work and I just didn't feel like it was going to be profitable or fruitful and, and people were not looking, you know, like they wanted anyone anywhere near them. So I binned it and went back to work. [00:26:01] Speaker B: Yeah, fair enough. I, someone we interviewed, I'm not sure if it was a street photographer, it was some other genre, but they said something along the lines of, you know, if you feel then your photos are going to be. [00:26:13] Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's just, that's probably what I meant to say. Yeah, absolutely. [00:26:16] Speaker B: Yeah. You just, just not in that headspace. And, and it happens, you know, it happens to everyone. But yeah, as a street photographer, it happens to me sometimes. Sometimes the light will just be weird and it just doesn't inspire me to lift my camera, you know. [00:26:27] Speaker A: No, that's fair enough. [00:26:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:29] Speaker A: But then sometimes you want to go out and you think, well, even though I feel crap, you never know what's going to be out there. [00:26:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:35] Speaker A: And I don't want to miss a chance. But sometimes the chance never comes and he's okay, fair enough. [00:26:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:41] Speaker B: And I think that's part of the, I find that to be part of the beauty of street photography. You know, some days you can go out and you can come back with 100 bangers, you know. Yeah, but using a digital camera, obviously, but. And then, you know, other days you'll go out and you'll take 500 shots and you don't like any of them. Yeah, you know, just the vibe wasn't. [00:27:01] Speaker A: I don't like those days. Not very nice. No. [00:27:04] Speaker B: It doesn't feel very productive. But the beauty of it is that it is, you know, it's a chase, it's, it's a pursuit. It's almost like you're, you're having to put yourself out there to be available for when those good moments do pop up. Yeah. And I, when I teach people about street photography, I follow a similar sort of Idea around, you know, you've got to be present, you've got to be there to see it and to take the shot, you know, and the more that you're out on the street, the more you'll be exposed to. [00:27:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:33] Speaker B: Switching gears to your street photography. You know, I read in your bio you were talking about how lunch break walks, your day job, proved to be an excellent opportunity. Tell us about how that came into play. [00:27:47] Speaker A: Well, I didn't want to sit on my phone during my lunch break and I thought, why don't I just go for walks? And then I just thought, why not take a few. Why not take some photographs? And, and at the time I had a. I've still got a. I had a Nikon D300, which is too bulky and I had a massive, like Sigma 25250 lens on it. [00:28:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:10] Speaker A: And so that's when I decided to take a deep dive into getting a smaller street photography type camera. And I took the plunge. [00:28:20] Speaker B: Okay, and so you found that, you know, the bigger camera, obviously it didn't make you very discreet. People tend to notice. [00:28:26] Speaker A: I didn't even take it out, to be honest. I just thought, I don't want to be seen with it. [00:28:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. Poor camera. It didn't do anything wrong. [00:28:34] Speaker A: I tried to give it to my daughter, but she wasn't. She wasn't. She wasn't interested. So it's still sitting there. All right, a 12 megapixel camera. Yeah. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Oh, look, you know, maybe you'll find a cheap, you know, 50 or 35 mil prime one day and you'll just drop that on it and it will feel right. Who knows? [00:28:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:28:52] Speaker B: You never know. So, you know, speaking of gear, let's get into. Into gear now. So you said you took the plunge. How big a plunge did you take and what did you pick up first? [00:29:01] Speaker A: So, because of Alan Shaller and Bresson and a few others up, and I started following this Danish guy on YouTube and he, he gave the most amazing review on the, on a. On a Leica M9. And I thought, man, I've got to have one of them. [00:29:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:23] Speaker A: But I thought, I can't justify paying the money to get one. And I wait, and, and it took me about, I'm going to say, a good year or so before, worked harder and earned some bit more money to take the plunge and buy a Leica M9 and a lens and that. Really, I loved it. From then on in, I was a street photographer. I wanted to be a street photographer, take photographs on the Streets. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And. And can I ask, what was that first lens you got for your M9? [00:29:56] Speaker A: It was a 35 mil summicron. Perfect. It came with a camera when I bought it. [00:30:02] Speaker B: Yep. And so you bought it new or you bought it secondhand? [00:30:04] Speaker A: Oh, secondhand. Second hand. Yeah. [00:30:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Still hurts, doesn't it? Even secondhand. [00:30:10] Speaker A: Oh, man. Yeah. But I'd looked at. I looked at them in shops and Internet for. For so long and the feeling wouldn't go away. And, yeah, I had to get it. [00:30:24] Speaker B: Yep. No, that's fair enough. That's fair enough. It is interesting, though. I find that some of the best cameras for street photography are often quite overpriced. Maybe. Maybe overpriced isn't the right word. But they're expensive. They're more expensive than, you know, than a lot of stuff. You know, looking for discrete compact fixed lens or interchangeable lens. You know, like the Q3s, the Q, the Q2s. [00:30:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:51] Speaker B: Rico have, you know, Rico have stayed in the game with the RICO 234 now. And I saw. I saw yesterday that they have just announced their 30th anniversary edition, which is. Is kind of a theme for rico with their GRS. I think with the GR3, they released seven different versions plus. That's right. [00:31:11] Speaker A: I remember seeing that. Yeah. [00:31:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And then it could. This year or so, since they've launched the GR4, they've announced the standard GR4, the one with the 40 mil lens instead of the 28. Anyway, there's a whole bunch of different versions and they've just announced the 30th anniversary one with special branding, you know, a collectible set. Yeah. Do other cameras appeal to you in that way? You know, or is it. Is it Leica all the way for you now? [00:31:42] Speaker A: You know, I've met it. I meet a few photographers for. For drinks and stuff, and, you know, and I'm never swayed. Never. [00:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:52] Speaker A: I mean, people tell me how good the Sonies are and the Fujis are, and I look at them and I play with them and. But I'm not interested, to be brutally honest. I just. I love shooting with Leica. Sounds a bit snobbish, I know, but I kind of. [00:32:08] Speaker B: I don't think it's snobbish. Look, I mean, you know, different strokes for different folks, and if that's where you want to, you know, if that's the tool you want for your craft, then it's no different to a. You know, to a builder or a plumber picking the best tool out of the range to, you know, because it will last, it will hold its value and it will do the job effectively and perfectly. You know, it will. [00:32:30] Speaker A: And it's so. And it's so simple. [00:32:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:34] Speaker A: And. And I've got so used to the zone focusing now that I don't even look at anything anymore. [00:32:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:40] Speaker A: I set myself focus into a particular point. That's what I shoot that day. And I don't deviate for them from that style of photography. And I set myself a daily sort of lens. Daily f stop, whatever. [00:32:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:54] Speaker A: So I just have to. All I have to do is point and shoot. [00:32:58] Speaker B: So you, you experiment with different settings such as aperture. [00:33:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:03] Speaker B: And just do that for the day and just see what comes from it and work towards that discipline. That's really interesting. I don't know that I've ever heard anyone doing it that way. Maybe I have, but yeah, I think that's a great way. [00:33:14] Speaker A: I just want to go back. I just want to get better at different styles. For the last two years, I reckon I've shot only with 21 and 24 mil lenses. I get right up close to people. I'm always walking, I'm always trying to get people in that instant. But I want a bit of background for the story. So the. Hence the 21 mil lens. [00:33:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:39] Speaker A: In the last couple of weeks I've put that 35 mil lens back on my camera and I haven't used it for two years. And. [00:33:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:33:47] Speaker A: Now I'm trying to look at. Standing a little bit further back. Oh, looks like I've. Oh, here we go. That's me standing a little bit further back. If you look at that one next to you, next to our black and white photograph. If you look the one to the right of that with the woman eating the ice cream. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:05] Speaker A: I've gone for an F. An F stop of 2. [00:34:10] Speaker B: Yep. [00:34:10] Speaker A: I stand a bit closer back. So I've managed to get her in focus, but I've got a blurred background. So that's, that's my next mission for the next few weeks is to. Is to get those type of shots. [00:34:20] Speaker B: Okay. And you've also got a blur, a blurred hand holding an ice cream entering on the left of the. [00:34:25] Speaker A: I love that. Yeah. So that's enough. That's an F stop of 2. [00:34:29] Speaker B: Yep. [00:34:30] Speaker A: On a 35 mil lens. [00:34:32] Speaker B: Yep. And so you work that. [00:34:34] Speaker A: And I've cropped it a little bit. [00:34:36] Speaker B: Yep. [00:34:37] Speaker A: And I've just like, I've just lightened it up. [00:34:42] Speaker B: Yep. So when it comes to your post Processing. Is it, you know, do you. Is it. Is it a labor for you? Is it something you enjoy or do you do everything? [00:34:51] Speaker A: I really enjoy it, I think. [00:34:53] Speaker B: Enjoy the editing. [00:34:54] Speaker A: I really do. [00:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:56] Speaker A: I don't try to. I try to do as little as possible. I would say I'm steering away from strong contrast now, probably, but a little bit more texture and dehaze in there. And because I always underexpose, I'm. I always brighten it up a little bit. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Pull it up. Yeah, yeah. [00:35:18] Speaker A: But that's about it, really. But I do enjoy the process and I do go back to a photograph that I'm going to use several times because I'm never happy with editing it. There's always more you can do or less that you can do. So sometimes I start again, put it back to reset, and then try again. But I do enjoy it. [00:35:38] Speaker B: And are you shooting in RAW or JPEG with these images? Raw, always Raw. [00:35:42] Speaker A: Raw. [00:35:43] Speaker B: And so you're adding your own black and white preset or is it a Leica look or how do you go about doing that? [00:35:47] Speaker A: No, I don't do any presets. Mean. I've got. I've got a. I've got some presets which I've downloaded, but they're more for grain rather than anything else. [00:35:58] Speaker B: Okay. Yep. [00:36:02] Speaker A: There's a guy I can't remember the name of. I follow on again, I follow on YouTube. Walk like Alice, I think his thing is called. He's a British photographer. He does a lot of stuff around Blackpool with the kiss me quick, hug me slow hats and the ice creams and that sort of typical British seaside tower. I mean, it's fantastic. Walk Like Alice. [00:36:23] Speaker B: Walk Like Alice. Jeff. [00:36:25] Speaker A: I can't remember his name. Jeff. Can't remember his second name. But he's a nuts and bolts photographer. Yes, that's the one. And he's. And he's. He's got some fantastic Lightroom tutorials on. On YouTube, which I follow. And he talks about using different lenses. So I like the way he works and I like the way he talks. And his information is. Is for Lightroom, probably the most useful. [00:36:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:36:54] Speaker A: All right. [00:36:55] Speaker B: Well, I've just subscribed. I'll have a look at his stuff. For anyone that's watching or listening along, let me just share that screen very quickly so you can see what we're referring to. So it's Walk Like Alice and it's Jeff. Jeff and Sarah. Asco. Esco. [00:37:09] Speaker A: Escoff. [00:37:10] Speaker B: I'm not sure how. [00:37:12] Speaker A: Yeah. And she's Brilliant as well. She does a lot of seaside stuff down near Brighton. A lot of. [00:37:18] Speaker B: Yeah, there's a lot of that in here. [00:37:20] Speaker A: Yeah, he does more. She doesn't do any talking. Her, he puts her photographs up and he does all the talking. [00:37:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. Okay. And so, you know, you're trying different lenses, you're working with different, you know, apertures. Do you have a favorite? Go to street Focal distance. [00:37:44] Speaker A: It's gonna sound pretty semi. Semi, but F8 is great, isn't it? I mean. [00:37:50] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. But I mean like focal distance. Do you have a favorite? [00:37:53] Speaker A: Oh, sorry, I'm gonna. The one I'm best at, I feel Most comfortable is 21. [00:38:00] Speaker B: Just getting that more content. [00:38:01] Speaker A: 24. I like, I've got a. I like my 24 as well, but I think I'm best at 41. But now I want to get better at 35s. [00:38:09] Speaker B: Yep. Okay. Amazing. Well, you're certainly spoiled for choice when it comes to nice 35s that work on a Leica, that's for sure. [00:38:16] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And, and that's the one I'm using has been dropped a couple of times. I've tripped with the camera in my hand and I've had it repaired. It's still not 100, but it's, it's still shooting decent stuff and it's still, still sharp. [00:38:30] Speaker B: Yeah. And I ask that that ill fated drop, was that whilst you were out doing street, was it? [00:38:37] Speaker A: Absolutely. Was it? [00:38:38] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. [00:38:40] Speaker A: I, I, I was looking at something and I didn't see a step and I just tripped on the step and bashed the camera. [00:38:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I'll share us a little story with you. It's, it's a little embarrassing, but it's also funny. I was in Melbourne in the City. I actually just came across the, the image yesterday when I was going through my archives and I was walking across with the crowd that were crossing over from Elizabeth street to Flinders Street Station. Anyway, Melbourne, people know where it is. And, and there was a street photographer coming towards me. And so, you know, I was feeling pretty cool. It was a nice day. The light was good and I, and I sort of tipped my hat at him and then I sort of turned around and came back the other way and there was another guy on the other side of the road with the camera. I can't remember if they were together or not, but I kind of smiled at him and gave him a little knowing nod and I completely missed the gutter and I went straight over. I managed to keep my camera. My camera was only like two Weeks old at the time, I'd only just picked up my new new camera and yes Lucinda, I did have my lucky strap on on my camera but I managed to save it. But my knees didn't do so well and my AirPods went flying in different directions. But to their credit, the two street photographers who, you know, I was maybe just showing off a little too much too, they both rushed over and picked me up and got me back up on my feet and collected my earbuds for me but so embarrassing, you know. [00:40:02] Speaker A: Yes, I was, I was pretty much the same. [00:40:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it rocked my confidence a bit. I don't know about you, but I kind of thought, oh gosh, am I getting too old for this game? You know, like silly old fool kind of thing. Felt like my father was berating me, but it was just myself. Amazing. Let's, let's talk a little bit about shifting focus. Let's talk a little bit about your day job. So you're a qualified osteopath but I read in your profile that you're also a cancer pain research and yeah, we've [00:40:32] Speaker A: got a bit of a, I still do that one day a week. So I work between sort of UT University of Technology Sydney and, and University of Sydney and I work within the palliative care space. So I'm looking, I'm working with people who are terminally ill and we're working on research projects looking at how to assess pain, how to manage pain, all non pharmacologically. So virtual reality being one of the things that we've done a fair bit of and we, we basically do the research, see what the findings are. And, and with the. Virtual reality was really good so we translate that into clinical work. So we buy a suite of VR headsets and we put, we upload all of these different sort of scenes they can use and go around and they can move around. So, and, and some of Google Earth is a good example where you can go back to where you were born, where you were married. And for people at the end of life it's a fabulous journey. You know, it's something they never thought they would do and it's a, you know, it can be quite difficult at times to work with people who are sort of end of life and terminally ill. But it's also superbly inspirational and it would be a fantastic thinking about it to do some photography discreetly with, with, with those sort of scenes. I don't think anyone's ever done it before but now I'm talking about it, it would Be something that would be, I think, inspirational to a lot of people. [00:42:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely agree. I think there's, there's something in that. You know, it's. I lost my wife to cancer in 2013 after a very, very short battle with a very aggressive cancer. [00:42:28] Speaker A: I'm sorry. [00:42:28] Speaker B: And I, I have so many regrets, obviously. We all do, but especially around documenting those times. Better. [00:42:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:37] Speaker B: Because we had young children at the time or two teenagers and two younger and I, and I, I regret not having that. Taken advantage of that opportunity. But having said that, I wasn't doing photography much back then. It was more just family snacks, holidays, things like that. [00:42:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:54] Speaker B: Like, you know, I parked my, my photography for quite a big chunk of, of my life and then came back to it after she passed away. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:02] Speaker B: How do you think, how do you think patients would. And families would receive that kind of opportunity? Do you think that there'd be. [00:43:11] Speaker A: I don't think it would be. Yeah, I think there would be a reluctance. More from the families and the patients. [00:43:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:18] Speaker A: Certainly from my experiences, when you ask a participant or a patient to be a participant in a study, the patients always want to give something back. They want to help, they want to make life better for people following them. But the families understandably would like to spend as much time with their loved ones as possible. So getting past them, it would be probably the biggest issue, I would suppose. I mean, I've just bought a book by another photographer again who I can't remember the name of, who's done a lot of work sitting in rooms, in hospitals, in homes, sitting in the corner, just taking photographs of people in like source lower socioeconomic backgrounds in hospitals, in, you know, end of life situations. And I bought that book recently because the one I wanted to get wasn't available. So I just thought I'm going to get this one because it looks a bit interesting. If you want me to get the book, I can run out and get it and tell you, but shall I do that or. [00:44:24] Speaker B: Oh, sure. Look, why not? Yeah, it's important. [00:44:26] Speaker A: Okay, I'll be two seconds. [00:44:27] Speaker B: Yeah, no worries. Let me just check to see if there's any comments. And don't forget folks, if you are watching or listening along, whether it be live with us now or down the track when you get time or you might be listening to it like Bruce is on his way between jobs, please make sure you give us a, like, it helps us out a lot. Lets people know. Well, lets YouTube know that we've got, we've got something worth sharing and if you are new here. Please consider subscribing to the Camera Life podcast. It costs you nothing. You just hit subscribe and then tickle the bell icon to always notify you of upcoming episodes of the Camera Life podcast. Because that way you'll get those notifications in your time zone and you'll be all set to watch. So tell us a little bit about this book, Phil. [00:45:11] Speaker A: So it is called the Fat Baby, the Fat Baby, the Stories by Eugene Richards. So this will be a good example. [00:45:20] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:45:22] Speaker A: So it's, it's just, it's life stories and it's a big old book as well. It's not. And I've yet to go through it properly. But that would be a style of photography, if I ever had the nerve, would be a direction I'd like to go in. Black and white, of course. [00:45:43] Speaker B: Yeah, no, of course. And you know, and I think given not only your experience as a candid street photographer, you know, where we, we try to leave no footprint of us being there, we try to be invisible, you know, a lot of the time to then, you know, transplant that into a hospital or a home setting. I think there's a natural progression there. One of our past guests, I don't know if you know him, Andrew Chapman, he's a Melbourne based photographer. He's been, he's been in the game for, I think 60 years. He's just opened another exhibition at the Melbourne Town hall and is about to release yet another book. He's got countless. But Andrew was a photojournalist to begin with and obviously he's done a lot of street photography, a lot of candid work with people and, but also he, he suffered a. I'm going to get this wrong, but I'm going to say it was his kidney that was failing and, you know, it almost ended him and he had to have a transplant and obviously significant time recovering. But to his credit, it didn't take him long to get back out there with a camera. And then he ended up working with, with the hospital and the surgery teams that were doing transplants and he would be on call and he would show up to document a transplant, the actual surgery. He would be in the theater all gowned up with his protective gear on and his camera and the images that he's, that he's captured from, that are so, so compelling, not just for the storytelling content, but also for the inside look into stuff that we don't often see, even in images, even on the news. We don't see what goes inside an operating room. Other than what's been staged. And I think there's a unique angle there. [00:47:27] Speaker A: Yeah, I've seen, I've seen it. I know, I know a few European photographers have done that type of stuff, especially with the traumatic stuff in not so much Gaza, but Syria. There was quite a lot of work done and it's definitely an area I'd love to get into, but I'm not sure how I would even start looking at getting into it. [00:47:46] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:47:47] Speaker A: I mean, I suppose I could ask the hospital I work in what the process would be to get permission to do that and if they would be interested in any, in any form of sort of storytelling. Because that's what it is at the end of the day, isn't it? I mean, it's. [00:48:01] Speaker B: We document so much of our lives and I don't see why our twilight years should be any different. [00:48:07] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:48:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Just because we're not youthful and sexy anymore doesn't mean we don't have stories to tell. [00:48:13] Speaker A: Well, I mean, it's the same, it's the same in the pain space. You know, my research career has been in not just cancer pain, but chronic non cancer pain, but, you know, pain in the elderly. There's something that's sort of heavily neglected and sort of not considered important and they don't assess it properly or thoroughly. [00:48:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:32] Speaker A: Because, you know, communication is less effective from people who are elderly, so they can't really describe how they're feeling and. Yeah, so, you know, facial expression is something that you can capture with a camera with that as well, you know. [00:48:47] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And even just the difficulty in getting up out of a chair or, you know, you can document that with still images. You can, you can capture that. [00:48:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:56] Speaker B: The essence of that pain, like you said, through body language, through facial expressions, those sorts of things. So, yeah, look, I highly encourage it. If you want me to get you in touch with Andrew Chapman, let me know. Maybe. [00:49:07] Speaker A: That'd be great. I mean, I've been, I've been, I've been more than happy to travel down and shadow him. I'm always willing to learn. [00:49:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, well, he has, he has an abundance, abundance to teach, that's for sure. So are there any other ways in which your, you know, your day job, your, your career in osteopathy and in pain research, are there other ways that that influences your photography? It does, it, does it alter how you, your outlook on life in various ways? Talk to us a little bit about that. [00:49:40] Speaker A: I'm not sure. I'm just trying to think. I think I steer clear of people in distress when I take photos. [00:49:52] Speaker B: Yep. [00:49:53] Speaker A: You know, overt distress, obvious distress, because I don't want to intrude. And I've learned how not to intrude too much with patients. I mean, you've got to intrude a little bit to get, to get the information to help, to help them. Yeah, but there is, there is a, there is a, there is a fine line between too much and not enough. And for me, my line is when I'm doing my street photography, I steer away from people who look upset, who look at terribly upset, crying, that sort of stuff. And, and people who are homeless. I do do some homeless photography, but there's, you can't see their faces, so it's there, it's their body position rather than their facial expression. [00:50:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:50:40] Speaker A: Because I think that's their house that you're intruding into their home. You know. [00:50:44] Speaker B: That's right. The streets are their home. I have a fairly similar, I call it my rule book. And I guess it's more just defining my, my values around who I will and won't photograph. And you know, I won't photograph vulnerable people, people that are obviously impacted by drugs, alcohol, mental health, abuse or whatever it is that's going on. I don't, I don't photograph homeless people and I don't photograph children. [00:51:07] Speaker A: No, that's gonna, I was gonna say that I do very occasionally. I mean, I've got four children myself, but I'm so hyper sensitive to being misconstrued. [00:51:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:51:20] Speaker A: That I don't think it's. I don't think it's worth it. I think if you're a female photographer, you've got a bit more leeway. [00:51:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:25] Speaker A: But as a guy, I think you've got to be really careful. [00:51:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree, I agree. I mean, I'll even go so far as if a family walks past with toddlers or a group of school kids. If I'm in the city and a bunch of kids walk past in their uniforms, I will point my camera at the ground. I don't try to hide what I'm doing. I don't try to hide my camera away. I just stand there and point it at the ground, wait till they're past. Because like you said, you know, I'm a parent as well and I would be concerned if. Yeah. A middle aged man was following. [00:51:56] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I'm sort of, I'm heading towards old age man now. So it's even worse. [00:52:04] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, I mean, I've [00:52:07] Speaker A: got A photograph I'm probably going to put up next on an Instagram which is a child, but you can't really see their face and there's a protective arm around them and it, it's, it's more for the artistic license than it is because it's a child. [00:52:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, I think that's something. [00:52:22] Speaker A: And I had an opportunity to take it. No one, you know, it was fine. But yeah, I'm really careful. [00:52:29] Speaker B: Yeah, really cool. Amazing. Let me just see if there's any new comments from the chat. Roy Bixby. G' day, Roy. Roy Bixby says that I see too many likers with cheap, cheap Chinese lenses. Yeah, there, there's a lot of. [00:52:45] Speaker A: Is it really? I've never seen them. [00:52:48] Speaker B: Really. There's heaps, there's heaps. Lots of company. Yeah. Well, on our Monday, on our Monday evening show, we call it the Random Photography Show, I cover a news section of all the, the industry news for that week and it might be lens announcements or rumors of things, camera drops and just other quirky little stuff to do with our industry. And we had a, we had a good run there. It was mostly in, after February because in February in Yokohama in Japan they hold the CP plus, which is a image making trade show and all the big camera brands were there and the amount of third party lenses, not just for like amount but also for, you know, Fuji and Sony and Nikon, never for Canon because they, they don't let anyone make lenses for their mount. But the amount of, yeah, lenses, cheap but well constructed lenses coming out of China was, was, well, just from other markets that we're not used to. [00:53:42] Speaker A: Is it good quality? [00:53:44] Speaker B: It's a mixed bag. It's a big mix bag. Like, you know, like at the moment there's, there's some lenses you can pick up, you know, and I've looked at them and the Fujifilm version, let's say it's a, you know, it's a, it's a 56F one.2 with Fujifilm. That's like 2000, at least two and a half thousand dollars. Yeah, but they dropped this one for 500 bucks and it just depends on what you're looking for. You know the light lens lab, that's a great brand. [00:54:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:08] Speaker B: Fairly certain they're situated in China. I've reviewed a couple of their lenses in the past and they are impeccably engineered pieces of glass and they're. [00:54:19] Speaker A: Yeah, there's some good stuff about it. [00:54:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah there is. Yeah, there's certainly some options. Yeah. And, and what tends to happen, I think, for Leica when they make lenses for Leica is that they understand that Leica users expect a certain level of quality. And so you get this sort of. You don't get these cheap, necessarily cheap plastic lenses, you get precision engineered and developed lenses, but they just make them more affordable. [00:54:45] Speaker A: And I buy the antique lenses to make it more affordable. I'll buy the really old ones. [00:54:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:54:52] Speaker A: I've got a 50 mil summer at one point F stop 1.4 which cost 800. [00:55:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:01] Speaker A: Wow. But it was built is 1966. 1967. [00:55:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:06] Speaker A: And my 21 mil lens is really old as well. I mean, it's. I've got a crop up because the edges are pretty rubbish, but. But it still takes a really good image. [00:55:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And look, there's a lot to love with, you know, with using old glass on. On a new camera. [00:55:23] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a lot softer and I like that sort of aspect of it. [00:55:27] Speaker B: Yeah. They're not massive. They've got character, haven't they? They've got character more than anything. [00:55:32] Speaker A: Yeah, well, but I mean, the, the summer's reasonably new and. And the difference is massive with the sharpness. [00:55:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And are you still rocking the M9 or have you upgraded since then? [00:55:47] Speaker A: Wow. So I had an M9 and then I got a. An M9 monochrome. [00:55:54] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:55:55] Speaker A: And I had the two together. And I love the. I love the M9 monochrome. And then on my 60th birthday last year, I swapped them both and a bit of cash for an M11 monochrome. [00:56:10] Speaker B: Makes sense. You don't need that color. [00:56:12] Speaker A: Oh, my. My life was. I mean, I got a good deal. I know the guy who I bought the camera off. So the two cameras plus a little bit more got me the M11 monochrome, which was new. I mean, it was. [00:56:26] Speaker B: It was the M9s. [00:56:28] Speaker A: Not anymore. I used to feel myself thinking into that a CCD sensor was better than a CMOS sensor and. But to be honest, I probably couldn't tell the difference. [00:56:38] Speaker B: Yeah, I definitely. Most people can. [00:56:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. But the M11 monochrome, the tonal stuff is just fabulous. [00:56:48] Speaker B: Yeah. What about sharpness? Because people often say that monochrome cap monochrome only sensors capture a greater level of sharpness and dynamic range. Did you find that even just with the M9s, comparing the color. The color and the monochrome? [00:57:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. And you know, with the old M9, anything over 800 ISO, it was just the photograph was virtually ruined. You were really Limited with dark space work. And now with the M11, it's just. I can bloody shoot in the dark. It's crazy. [00:57:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:23] Speaker A: I mean, like in blackness, it's just. I mean, I can go up to 200,000 ISO, but I've taken up to 64,000 before and it's been pretty good. [00:57:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:34] Speaker A: Just experimenting. Yeah. [00:57:37] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find it interesting how cameras have that ability to, you know, dial up to 256,000iso and. [00:57:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:47] Speaker B: You know, and I feel bad putting my ISO over 200 during the day. You know, I just. [00:57:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Sometimes I, sometimes I do it depending because if I'm doing any sort of, sort of slow camera stuff, sort of blurred, intentional camera movement, all that type of stuff, then I'll play around with it a little bit. But I guess I know what you're saying. 200 for me is my go to during the day if I'm just doing normal stuff. [00:58:19] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Yeah. But as soon as you start. Yeah, just. There's just this reluctance in me to, to start dialing up and. Yeah. And you know, like you talked about the simplicity of using a camera like that. I am a Fuji shooter, but I very much apply almost a film photography approach. You know, I don't use any of the bells and whistles in my camera other than maybe sometimes subject detection for eyes. [00:58:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:44] Speaker B: But I'll control my aperture, control my shutter speed, control my ISO. I use no manual, no auto settings there at all. The only thing I use is automatic, you know, autofocus. [00:58:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So I, I don't have the facility for autofocus. [00:58:59] Speaker B: No, you don't. [00:58:59] Speaker A: But since I've got the M11, I do use auto ISO. [00:59:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. [00:59:05] Speaker A: And you find which, which has been a complete game changer for me when I go, when I go from light to dark settings or vice versa. I don't. The old auto ISO on, on my older cameras was, was shocking. But this is, this is pretty good. [00:59:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:25] Speaker A: And I've never, I've never gone back to manual ISO since. It's something I can just forget about and then go from night to dark, dark to light. I might, I might change the F stop a little bit. And that's it. [00:59:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:40] Speaker A: And the shutter speed, but I never, I never go below a 500th of a second. [00:59:45] Speaker B: Yep. Okay. [00:59:46] Speaker A: And that's why I have the auto ISO, so I can keep it at a 500th of a second. [00:59:51] Speaker B: Yep, yep. And what aperture did you say F8 is your go to? [00:59:57] Speaker A: F8 would be my go to When I'm outside, I go to F11 when I. When I'm in sort of brighter light. F11? [01:00:05] Speaker B: Yep. [01:00:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Sometimes I like shooting into the sun, so of course I'll take it up the full whack. [01:00:11] Speaker B: Yeah, same. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? [01:00:15] Speaker A: Generally, yeah. [01:00:16] Speaker B: My go to is F8 and it's only since I got a faster lens, I picked up a 35 mil full frame equivalent Fuji lens, a 23 millimeter, but it's got a 1.4 aperture. [01:00:26] Speaker A: Oh, that's pretty. [01:00:27] Speaker B: And it's only been in the last sort of six months that I've started shooting wide open at F1.4 and really selecting my subjects carefully as to who's going to be in focus and what parts are not. And that, that's been a, that's been a wonderful learning experience because, you know, up until that I was mostly just leaving everything at F8. And the only thing I would change would be my shutter speed and my ISO. But shooting wide open, it just, it's. It's just really elevated how I see composition now as well. [01:00:58] Speaker A: Yeah, that's. That's my new thing as of the last couple of weeks. To be honest, I'm at the same time, I mean, I did a workshop at the very beginning when I really started. Like I wanted to know what I was doing and produce some good stuff. I did a day workshop with Julia Coddington. I don't know if you've heard of Julia. [01:01:15] Speaker B: No, I haven't. [01:01:16] Speaker A: No. She's quite a well known female photographer. She does loads of work in Japan and Turkey and Africa and, and I did a day course with her and she was, she. She really sort of showed me the ropes. [01:01:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:32] Speaker A: Especially about getting. How to get in close to people. And she shoots color. [01:01:39] Speaker B: Yep. [01:01:42] Speaker A: But if it's not, if it's not close enough, it's not good enough. It would be her mantra, I would suggest. [01:01:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that's it. It was Julie Coddington. Was it? [01:01:52] Speaker A: Coddington. Julia Coddington. C O Double D I N G. Yeah. I mean, she would be a good catch for your show. I would suggest. She. Yeah. [01:02:02] Speaker B: Okay. Just make a note to also introduce you to Andrew Chapman. [01:02:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And I still bump into her from time to time. We still do the same. I still do the same streets that she showed me to do when I went on the, on the day workshop with her. And it was probably the, the best money I ever spent on trying to be a better street photographer. [01:02:27] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. [01:02:29] Speaker A: No, nonsense. [01:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. But up until that point you were completely self taught until you started doing that sort of thing. Yeah, that's, that's amazing. [01:02:38] Speaker A: And I haven't, I haven't been in any other workshops. Yeah, you know, there's loads of like, like a, workshops I'd love to go on but I'll be buggered if I'm going to pay all that money to do a, like a workshop. [01:02:49] Speaker B: What if they have the liker. Academia, is it? Yeah, yeah, Academy kind of thing. [01:02:54] Speaker A: I mean I'll stick my head in the shop every now and again. [01:02:57] Speaker B: Yeah, same. [01:02:58] Speaker A: But if someone like Phil Penman comes across from New York, he's a Brit guy who's, who's a very popular like a photographer. Street photographer. You're talking like six, seven thousand dollars for a workshop for two or three days. I'm like, how much, how much more would I learn? [01:03:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:16] Speaker A: And would, and would I get the attention with, with lots of other street photographers buzzing around for attention? Yeah, I think I'd probably end up getting frustrated so I'd rather just learn on my own and, or meet people one to one and learn that way, you know. [01:03:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:32] Speaker A: I'm a bit of a loner really. I mean there's loads of opportunities for me, other street photographers at cafes and stuff but I'm not drawn to it. I've tried it a couple of times. [01:03:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:45] Speaker A: There's a couple of guys here who do all sorts of like group participant stuff but I, I don't tend to want to do it. I'd rather just be on my own wandering around the streets, learning myself. Yeah. [01:03:57] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. I, I find that really interesting because very similar to you. I reckon 80 of my street photography, if not more is done solo and I think it's very different to doing that than, than doing a street walk with even a small group of people. It can be very distracting and it can be. [01:04:18] Speaker A: I've done it twice. [01:04:19] Speaker B: Moving. Yeah. Often moving as a mob. You lose all of that discretion. [01:04:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. [01:04:27] Speaker B: Because you all move as one. Yeah, yeah, that is. [01:04:31] Speaker A: And I don't want to particularly to talk to anyone when I'm doing it either. [01:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:35] Speaker A: I can't be bothered to chat and concentrate on trying to get some decent shots because I know I can't. [01:04:41] Speaker B: Yeah. It's one or the other, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, most definitely. I've just started running street photography workshops in Melbourne only in the last sort of month or so and I've kept the groups purposely small because I don't want anyone to feel like Myself and up to four people max. [01:04:57] Speaker A: I was going to ask how many. [01:04:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I just don't want people to feel like I'm. I haven't given them enough, you know, input and time. [01:05:05] Speaker A: That's a good point. [01:05:05] Speaker B: And support. [01:05:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:07] Speaker B: So keeping the group small and then I also do one on one workshops where people really want to, you know, hone in on. On their skill set, developer style and. But do it without that sort of classroom experience. It's more like having a coach. [01:05:20] Speaker A: And that's why, that's why when I saw Julia Coddington's thing on her website, that's, that's why I did it. Because it was a one to one. [01:05:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:05:30] Speaker A: And it was very reasonable. [01:05:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the, you know, the, the workshop instructor can tailor that workshop to you specifically, you know. [01:05:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:42] Speaker B: To get out there and actually work on things that you need to work on, not just follow a playbook. This is what we do. So. Yeah, no, that's good, that's good. I'm going to look up Julia. [01:05:52] Speaker A: I mean she's got the. I'm not sure which camera she. I think she uses the Fuji Beat where it's got the flip top screen so you can really look at what yog. So she gets in really close because she's got the screen to look at because it comes up. [01:06:03] Speaker B: Yep. [01:06:04] Speaker A: And it took me bloom and ages to find. Well, there's. I don't think there's any good waistline viewfinders but I use a waistline viewfinder, quite a cheap Chinese one. So it's enough so I can look down. Yeah, yeah, I've got it with me but it's a slicker. I put it on my, my hot shoe and. And I just look at the camera. I just look down at the camera so people don't even see me looking at them. So I just look through the. Through the. [01:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:06:34] Speaker A: I mean I've made loads of mistakes by missing stuff but it's. I'd rather have the discretion than. And miss a few than otherwise. [01:06:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's one of the first things I teach people in the workshop is about where to hold your camera. You know, don't be the tourist holding it at eye level because that's how everyone sees the world. You know, shoot, shoot from the hip, shoot from the ground. Hold your camera up above your head. Just. [01:06:58] Speaker A: I've never looked. I've never looked through my viewfinder. I'm going to say two or three years. [01:07:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Maybe you should trade that back in. You probably don't need it. You might get at least $3,000 for it. A good quality viewfinder. Oh, that's interesting. Interesting. And when you go out and you know you're. Do you just put the one camera on your, your new shiny M11 and walk out the door with just that or do you pack other lenses and. [01:07:24] Speaker A: No. [01:07:25] Speaker B: What's your, what's your street kit like? You know, what accessories are you packing? What's in your pockets? Do you carry a bag? All those sorts of things. [01:07:32] Speaker A: So I carry a little sort of. I used to do a lot of bike racing, so I've got, I've got one of those sort of side bags, a musette bag we used to call them. And I just put my camera in there and I don't have any accessories. The only thing I've got is, is a cloth if I have to wipe the lens or something like that. And that's all I've got. [01:07:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And what's the battery life like on an M11? I have no idea. [01:07:55] Speaker A: It's 10 times better than it was on the M9. Okay. With the M9 I needed, I needed two or three batteries for a day. [01:08:02] Speaker B: Yep. [01:08:03] Speaker A: The M11, I don't have to change it at all. [01:08:06] Speaker B: Wow, that's incredible. And I guess you're not driving autofocus as well, which is quite a no power hungry feature on most cameras. [01:08:14] Speaker A: The Leica M's don't have any autofocus lenses. I don't think. It's only when you get to the sl. [01:08:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:20] Speaker A: That you got to think about autofocus. [01:08:22] Speaker B: Yeah. Justin and I went to the, at the Leica store here in Melbourne. We went to the launch of the SL3P. Was it the last one? [01:08:31] Speaker A: I don't really follow the sls to be honest, but yeah, I mean they're [01:08:35] Speaker B: beautiful machines, but gosh, they're big and heavy and expensive, you know? Yeah. [01:08:39] Speaker A: I would, I wouldn't buy one just because they're so big. [01:08:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. I have street. I've seen a couple of street photographers in Melbourne. There's one guy, can't remember his name. He walks around with two SL3SL2s. I think he's got it. [01:08:51] Speaker A: Oh, that's not ever at Pete Everett, is it? [01:08:53] Speaker B: I'm not sure. I didn't get his name, I don't think. At least I didn't remember it. Yeah. And I, I kind of look at, I looked at his kid and thought, wow, there's like at least 30 grand worth of stuff just hanging off those Straps, you know. [01:09:07] Speaker A: And why would you take two cameras out? [01:09:09] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair call. That's a fair call. [01:09:13] Speaker A: Just take two batteries. [01:09:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Just. Yep. Make it work. I'm a big fan and I, I try to encourage this in people when, you know, we organize street walks or catching up with people or I'll set challenges. If I do a camera club talk or a walk, I'll do a challenge around, you know, just one camera, one lens, shoot in monochrome and shooting one to one ratio and it just blows their minds because, you know, the rules that they thought they had in place are being completely removed. [01:09:42] Speaker A: I'll shoot at a distance of 2 meters. [01:09:45] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Just, just changing it up. [01:09:47] Speaker A: Yeah, that's another thing I do as I set my distances. So I'm only going to take photos of things that are 1.5 or 2 meters away. [01:09:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:55] Speaker A: And I'll do my zone focus into that and I won't change it. [01:09:59] Speaker B: Yep, yep. And then you just got to trust your eye to gauge the distance. [01:10:02] Speaker A: Yeah. And you make mistake. I mean that stuff was, is heavily sort of promoted by Alan Shaller as well on some of his YouTube videos, which I used to follow a lot of. [01:10:14] Speaker B: Okay. [01:10:15] Speaker A: That's how he said that's how he set his, that's how he got better. I mean he, he just disciplined himself to use one lens, one distance, one F stop and just practice, practice, practice. [01:10:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:29] Speaker A: And now he's like a world famous photographer, you know, he's, he's, he goes all over the world and. Do you know his, how to spell it? You know, do you know who he is? [01:10:40] Speaker B: No. What was the first name? Was it Alan? [01:10:42] Speaker A: Alan. And then his second name. S C H A L L E R. Is it? He's a London S C H S C H A double L E R Sh. His work is incredibly sharp, incredibly high contrast. [01:11:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:03] Speaker A: And it, and the work he does is. I'm. I'm probably going to say he's the most out there. Leica photographer. [01:11:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:13] Speaker A: Okay. [01:11:13] Speaker B: I'll definitely look him up. Cool. Let me just jump to a few more comments just so I can keep up with the chat. Doug Porter. G', day, Doug. Great to have you in the chat. Doug was one of our guests. Is that last week Doug? No, two weeks ago. We had Doug on Amazing to catch up with him. And look at his 60 years of, you know, image making career, folks. If you want to see that one, you can roll. You can check it out after this episode. It will be in our, on our YouTube channel. Or if you're an audio podcast listener, wherever you listen to your audio podcasts. Who we got here? We've got Roy Bixby. My old film days. Leica is a pain to use with any speed. Yeah. Older technology wasn't as zappy as it is now. Modern cameras have made it so easy that we are spoiled. [01:12:08] Speaker A: I would agree with that. I would agree with that. [01:12:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd agree too. Each lens has its own sweet spot. Yeah, it does. And I like the idea, Phil, around the, you know, that zone focusing kind of concept, especially when you have to shoot in manual. I know that the, the Ricoh GRS we talked about earlier, the threes and the fours, they have a. I think they call it snap focus, where you set the distance, you know, in meters, that kind of thing. And you can set it within a, like that 2 meter or that 1 meter range. Even get things in really super close, which I kind of like the concept of. Using a cloth. What was that in relation to? [01:12:51] Speaker A: You asked me what I take in my bag. Any accessories. I just take a cloth to clean stuff, that's all. [01:12:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yep, yep. No, that's fair. Yeah. Cloth. I hope you have a filter on that lens or you remove your AR coating. [01:13:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. I have filters on. [01:13:06] Speaker B: Yes. [01:13:06] Speaker A: At the very least. At the very least, a uv and then I'll have. I'll have. I'll have orange filters. I'll have ND filters. [01:13:17] Speaker B: Yep. Really good with the monochrome, isn't it? Yeah. [01:13:21] Speaker A: So I. Well, you can't use it with color because I've tried. It looks rubbish. [01:13:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:25] Speaker A: Everything. But. Yeah, for me it just. It adds a bit of contrast to. To sky and stuff. [01:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:34] Speaker A: When I'm taking photographs. So I use it all the time on my 21. [01:13:39] Speaker B: Yep. [01:13:40] Speaker A: And sometimes on my 24, but I don't go without on the 21. I think it's. It's probably. I don't know where I got the advice from. I mean, I think someone once said to me on a comment on Instagram, do you shoot with an orange filter? And I'm like, no, I don't. And I'm like, what? Why did he ask that? What's the benefits? Or I went and had a look and I thought, oh. And I got a. A really old secondhand, like orange filter and put it on. [01:14:09] Speaker B: Yep. [01:14:09] Speaker A: It's never been off. [01:14:11] Speaker B: Yeah. I bumped into a couple of other Leica users on street walks and they've had orange filters and it just creates more punch in the contrast. Yeah, absolutely. [01:14:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:22] Speaker B: It's Incredible. And, yeah, what it does for the sky tones as well. Nev Clark. G', day, Neville. We're only just talking earlier this morning. Nev having switched over to some Leica cameras in the last six months. So Nev's got two Q3s. [01:14:36] Speaker A: Okay, cool. [01:14:37] Speaker B: And he uses those for. He's a landscape photographer predominantly, but he also runs his own small business, just doing smaller weddings purely with his Leica kit. Two Leica cameras and he's shooting weddings with those, which is amazing. Good to have you in the chat, as always. [01:14:53] Speaker A: Q3 would be great. [01:14:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it would, yeah. Yeah. And Justin. Justin's also got his Q3 and he almost got rid of it from memory. [01:15:04] Speaker A: He. [01:15:04] Speaker B: He found he wasn't enjoying it as much because he's a. He's a Canon R5 Mark II and R3 shooter. So he's got blisteringly fast autofocus performance because he shoots a lot of sports and action and mountain bikes and things like that. And he fell out of love with the Q3 for a bit, but yet refused to give it to me for free. So, you know, make that. Make of that what you will. But. [01:15:27] Speaker A: But had a 24 mil lens on. I would get one, but 28 is too. Too big for me. Too tight for everyday use. [01:15:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yep, that's fair. But. And then they did a firm. He was using it a bit. He took it on, I think one of his trips overseas. He just took that. I think it was when he went to the States and his shots of Venice beach, you know, just with other sorts of colors. It's just. Yeah. Magical on the Q3. And even Nev's work is. Is incredible to view. But then they did the autofocus Update because the Q3 does have autofocus because it's a fixed lens. And they. They did a, you know, firmware update and it made the autofocus vastly improved. And. [01:16:10] Speaker A: And now it's a fantastic lens. [01:16:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:14] Speaker A: On that count. [01:16:15] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I think. [01:16:17] Speaker A: I think it goes down to 1.4 on the F stop. [01:16:20] Speaker B: I think so. Yeah, that. That rings a bell. [01:16:22] Speaker A: Or even. Or even lower. I'm not sure. Yeah, I've never. I've never touched one. I don't know. [01:16:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, Be careful. You might get hooked. [01:16:31] Speaker A: Ah, I think I've been hooked. [01:16:33] Speaker B: I can't get anymore. I think. Yeah, I think you've got the cream of the crop with an M11 monochrome. To be fair, I. I feel like that is kind of the gold standard of street photography systems. [01:16:47] Speaker A: I mean, I did buy a second hand, like a deluxe seven which I used for the first time on a trip, this trip to Scotland. I didn't end up using it that much because we, it was pouring down with rain. But I did get some shots in and it's, it's like a poodle compared to an Alsatian. I'll say. [01:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. [01:17:07] Speaker A: I was looking at the deluxe. I didn't enjoy the experience. [01:17:11] Speaker B: Okay, yeah, that's fair. I was looking at the L10 because they just released only a couple of months ago, which, from what, from my understanding, that's got a lot of the deluxe tech in it. Just got a different skin and a few different features like Leica color profiles and stuff. [01:17:29] Speaker A: Just learning the menu and stuff is, is too complex for me. [01:17:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fair enough. Yeah. I, I don't know. The L10 interested me as a, as a, you know, an option for street photography. I've got a Fujifilm kit. [01:17:47] Speaker A: I've never looked at it, to be honest. I'll definitely have a look after this [01:17:50] Speaker B: at the Fujifilm gear. [01:17:52] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, just, just, just, just to know about, more about what people are talking about because sometimes when I go for these cafe meets, I'm. I just sit there completely clueless. [01:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I get that. I do get that. Yeah. Well, I, I shoot my, My go to is an XE5. It's. It came out, I think around this time last year because I took it to Bright Festival Photography, brand new last year. [01:18:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:18] Speaker B: And I use a, either the 23F2, which is a 35F2, or the, you know, my new king of lenses, which is the 23 1.4. It's interesting. Well, sorry, 35.35mil equivalent. [01:18:33] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [01:18:35] Speaker B: Because it's crop sensor. But you know, I often, often tell people when they say, oh, what lens should I get next? And I'll say, oh, what do you have? So I've got this, this and this. I say, all right, well, you know, go and look at what you shoot the most. You know, go into your lightroom catalog and go to your attributes and see where your focal distances are and use that to determine. But I, you know, people say, I've got this one, but it's only the F4. You know, maybe I want the 2.8 version. I was like, no, just keep, keep the F4. But having said that, I had to, I had to bite down on that a little bit because as soon as I got this 1.4 lens, it just changed my outlook. So Much. [01:19:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:19:14] Speaker B: Extra light and the ability to really separate my subjects from what's going on behind them. Yeah. And that was a real change for me. Yeah, yeah. [01:19:22] Speaker A: Because my 21 mil. 21 and 24 at F 3.8 and F 4. [01:19:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:27] Speaker A: And I don't even try to set a composition like you've just said, but with the Summer cron and the F2, it's. It's a game changer. And then with it, with a 50 mil, which I haven't used for ages, that's a 1.5. And I may have a look at that in the coming weeks, just to see what I can get out of it. [01:19:48] Speaker B: Yep, yep. And I saw that we talked about this a couple of weeks ago on our Monday night show that Leica just announced a remake, a limited edition remake of one of their most misunderstood and unknown lenses because it was originally built as a spy lens, and I think it's a 66 mil. Where did I see that? You know, if I was ever going to change to Leica, I would probably do so for the sake of the glass versus the bodies. Because learning a new system, you know, is like we've talked about, you know, it's. It can be quite overwhelming. It can be like just feel completely unnatural, especially once you've been using one system for so many years. Absolutely. Using new glass, you know, that's kind of universal and there's some beautiful, beautiful options in there. Let me just have a quick look at what that was. I'm sure it was a 66, if anyone in the chat can remember what the hell I'm going on about. It was only announced last week, I think. Just trying to find it. Sorry, Phil, just bear with me for a sec. [01:20:56] Speaker A: I'm just looking myself while we're doing it. Yeah, [01:21:02] Speaker B: no, that's not it. Oh, Brighton Star. That's another brand that people often go to for Leica. They're making some nice, you know, metal lenses now, so I've just looked. [01:21:11] Speaker A: There's a Leica Summicron M66 Mil F2. [01:21:14] Speaker B: That's it. Yeah. [01:21:16] Speaker A: 17 grand. Yeah. [01:21:18] Speaker B: So this is a limited edition, so I think they're only making like 660 of them. [01:21:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:24] Speaker B: To go with the 66. And the original build of that lens was. It was. It was kind of industry specific to, you know, spies and espionage. They're using those. The Leica cameras. Yeah, that was. That was what I read about the original journey of that particular lens. And now they're bringing out this. This new version of it. But only in limited numbers. Hence why it costs so damn much money. Like, that's just. [01:21:50] Speaker A: I would never. I would never. Yeah, not a chance. [01:21:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Let's have a look at some quick, Quick look at some more chats. Here's Nev again. He's back in the game. Just on that thought, it's probably closer to a 26 in reality. And I have tested that with my GFX 20 to 35. It's really a 26 mil lens on the Q3. And he's gone on to say that it is actually a 1.7, not a 1.4. [01:22:15] Speaker A: Okay. [01:22:20] Speaker B: And then he said, I ended up with Leica because I don't have a wife. Gucci film are fantastic. Love you. Loyalty, Nev. And yeah, my wife just [01:22:29] Speaker A: doesn't know the cost, that's all. [01:22:32] Speaker B: Yep, I get that. [01:22:33] Speaker A: I get that. [01:22:37] Speaker B: Just conscious of time. What, what, what have you got planned in the immediate future? Have you got more travels planned? Have you got more street? Yeah, you know, do you have a bucket list of street locations you want to see around the world and shoot? [01:22:52] Speaker A: Yeah, so I definitely want to go to Istanbul. I've got nothing planned for that. I'm going to Japan with the family in winter, so I'm gonna make the most of that. I mean, whether I get time away from the families is. That is the major obstacle. I'm going back to Patagonia in February and I'll definitely be doing some more landscapey type work there, but hopefully some street work in Buenos Aires before I get into that. Before I go down to Patagonia again, I've got to be a bit careful there because of the. The sort of. The dangerous sort of aspect of the city. I've done a bit of. I've done a bit of homework, a bit of research into where to go and where not to go. [01:23:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:37] Speaker A: Where else? I want to do more in Melbourne. For sure. I did when I first started taking photographs in. On this. On streets. Melbourne, I was working in Melbourne, not permanently, but I was back and forth. So I was doing lots of night work down there. But that was with the old M9, where I couldn't really get much with being limited to 800 ISO. [01:24:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:01] Speaker A: But I want to go down there with the M11 and really crank it up around Flinders Lane and sort of some of those back streets. [01:24:07] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. [01:24:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Look, if you needed to, I'll let you know. Yeah, fantastic. I'll take you up on that. [01:24:15] Speaker B: Yeah, no, but it would be. It would be great to catch up. I Caught up with Thomas Forbes. We interviewed him about a month ago. He's Melbourne street photographer, Quite a young street photographer, but has a love for Melbourne's trams and does some pretty amazing nighttime photography. We caught up about a week. [01:24:34] Speaker A: I'll have to have a look at that. That would interest me. Yeah, we. [01:24:38] Speaker B: We went and did a street walk together just because we could, you know. So if you ever want to come to Melbourne. [01:24:44] Speaker A: You want. [01:24:45] Speaker B: You want to. You feel like you actually. [01:24:46] Speaker A: Well, I'm actually coming down. I'm actually coming down next week, but it's for my 20th wedding anniversary, so I'm not changing my camera. [01:24:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Probably not good if I show up to that either. Yeah. Probably keep that between the two of you. [01:24:57] Speaker A: But there's another guy down in Melbourne who I really want to meet up with is. Is a guy. He's a young Anthony Rocco. He goes by the name of Blind Eyes on Instagram. [01:25:08] Speaker B: Yep. [01:25:09] Speaker A: Blind Eyes. And it's eyes with a Z rather than a. [01:25:14] Speaker B: Yep. [01:25:15] Speaker A: And he does some really interesting night stuff. He's. He's pretty out there. [01:25:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:20] Speaker A: I've got quite friendly with them. We sort of support each other, you know, quite well. [01:25:25] Speaker B: Yep. [01:25:27] Speaker A: So I'd like to meet up with him as well, down in Melbourne. [01:25:30] Speaker B: Yep. [01:25:30] Speaker A: So there's lots I want in Australia. I really want to do Melbourne. [01:25:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. [01:25:36] Speaker A: Because I think there's. There's more opportunity there than there is here. [01:25:40] Speaker B: Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? And we've often talked on the show about how being in a place other than home or your hometown. Yeah. It changes how you see the world, for one. But also, you see, it's that whole thing of, you know, when you're away, you see far more to photograph than when you're at home. [01:26:00] Speaker A: Because I think Melbourne CBD is a lot more busier socially. Yes. [01:26:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:26:07] Speaker A: So if I wanted to do that sort of stuff, I'd probably go to Newtown. [01:26:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:26:11] Speaker A: Surrey Hills, as opposed to the cbd, because it's empty at night. You know, even Chinatown, the. The differences between Melbourne and Sydney, Chinatowns are massive. [01:26:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:26:24] Speaker A: You know, with activity. With regards to activity. [01:26:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And the thing I love about Melbourne so much, not just as a photographer, but just as a resident of this city. And I only live 5K's from the CBD. It's just that there's always something going on, whether it be a festival or an art installation or. It's always something to see and do, I've found in Melbourne. And, you know, even just last weekend when I was running workshops both Saturday and Sunday. And just the activity in the city, because the Friday before, they just had that NFL game. Yeah. [01:26:58] Speaker A: Oh, yes. [01:26:59] Speaker B: And the city was just. Yeah, the. The city was just full of tourists and people that were marveling at Melbourne and distracted by everything it had to offer, which obviously made for good street photography fodder. But another place I recommend is Launceston. [01:27:18] Speaker A: I've got. Okay, I've only been to Tassie once, but I'm definitely going. [01:27:22] Speaker B: Launceston's got a amazing history, as does Hobart, but it's just something about Launceston that's a little edgy, a little bit like Melbourne. You know, there's some amazing laneways. There's a growing. Growing street culture, street art. Art installations. And I caught up with Bruce Moyle, who was. Who's probably still driving in between jobs, unless he's arrived, and we went for a street walk. And I was just blown away by the diversity. The diversity of architecture, because, you know, it's one of. It's one of Australia's oldest cities. [01:27:55] Speaker A: You know what Launceston. [01:27:57] Speaker B: Well, Hobart is. But Launceston, yeah, has a really diverse history. And even just the. The backdrops, the architecture, you know, there's. It reminds me a little bit of being here in sort of South Yarra, Prahran, because Prahran and South Yara. Well, Pran especially, is one of Melbourne's oldest suburbs. And you can see that in the architecture, you know, the cobblestones on the ground and, you know, there's that. It just adds interest to a street scene when we're. When we're working that sort of space. I just got completely distracted then. Where did we go? Nev has said, I hope Leica make a Q3.65 mil for portraits. Yeah, that's a fair call. 65 mil would be good, wouldn't it? Or an 80. And Roy Bixby. Roy Bixby has said rather cleverly, rather smart here, mate. If I bought another Leica lens, then I wouldn't have a wife. Yep. You can't have both. Sorry, mate. [01:29:03] Speaker A: That's one or the other. [01:29:04] Speaker B: Definitely not one or the other. Hey, sorry. Yeah, that's why I buy. That's right, yeah. Much more affordable. You mentioned about going to Japan. Have you been to Japan before? [01:29:19] Speaker A: Only to ski. And I went to a pain conference and I never had a camera. I never. I wasn't into. I wasn't doing it at the time. It was. It was before that. [01:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:29] Speaker A: I'm really excited. [01:29:32] Speaker B: And you should be I mean, I. I haven't been back to Japan since 2019. I've been four times Tokyo three of those times. And I just found that Tokyo was my spiritual, happy place as a street photographer. [01:29:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:29:46] Speaker B: And it just. It just felt like it didn't matter where or what I pointed my camera at. There was just something that was really fascinating about that scene, you know. [01:29:56] Speaker A: Well, I think what's going to happen is, is my family are going to go to Universal Studios and I'm going to have the day off and wander. [01:30:04] Speaker B: Yeah, perfect. [01:30:05] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:30:06] Speaker B: Well, if you need any recommendations for good spots, granted it's been a few years and I don't know how much other tourism has. Has impacted it, but I know a couple of good. A couple of good life hunting spots in. In and around Tokyo. [01:30:18] Speaker A: But. [01:30:18] Speaker B: Yeah. You. How long are you guys going for? [01:30:23] Speaker A: 10 days. [01:30:24] Speaker B: Nice. [01:30:25] Speaker A: 10 days. Yeah. [01:30:26] Speaker B: Just Tokyo or are you going around a bit? [01:30:28] Speaker A: No, no, no, Kyoto. [01:30:30] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, Kyoto is beautiful. [01:30:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:30:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:30:34] Speaker A: So I've only been to Niseko and I've been to Yokohama. [01:30:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:40] Speaker A: Which was. Yeah, it was like. It was one big shopping mall. [01:30:45] Speaker B: Yeah. If you can get back to Yokohama, you know, it's only an hour. I think it's maybe an hour from Tokyo Station Central. Yeah. It's less, isn't it? And Yokohama's Chinatown. [01:30:58] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [01:30:58] Speaker B: Amazing. And if you can be there when a baseball game is on, because the. One of the baseball stadiums is right near Chinatown. Okay. The street scenes, just. You just. You'll get dizzy trying to photograph everything. You know, there's a lot. It's just beautiful. Such a beautiful place. And I'm quite jealous of anyone who gets to go back to Japan. My partner and I hope to go next year. Unfortunately, she. She likes photography too, so we'll make the most of that opportunity. [01:31:27] Speaker A: Yeah, do it. [01:31:30] Speaker B: Anything else coming up for you in the near future that, that you want to plug or, you know, further exhibitions or maybe a book of your own? [01:31:40] Speaker A: I've done a few exhibitions and I don't have any plans yet. My. My idea was to test the water. You know, I have a. The exhibitions I've done before, I've got. I've had 15. 15 pits of art and I've sold five. And I've got frames lying everywhere around the house. So I've decided I really want to try and prove what I do before I do another one. [01:32:05] Speaker B: Yep. [01:32:06] Speaker A: Because I want. I want to be punchy or more punchy and just take my time in and trying to sort of Refine who I am as a photographer and what I want to do. [01:32:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And do you think that putting together your own photography book to make your mark on the street photography scene as many of those influences that, you know, we've talked about throughout today's episode, is that. Is that an end game for you? [01:32:33] Speaker A: I'm not sure, to be honest. I mean, I've actually written a textbook on pain, and it was a lot of work, but I didn't have to pay for any of the printing or publishing or anything like that. [01:32:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:48] Speaker A: I guess. I guess in the future, it's something I would think about. [01:32:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:54] Speaker A: It's not something I've given much thought, to be honest. I mean, if. If I had to label myself, I'm a. I'm an enthusiastic hobbyist. Yeah. And I just really enjoy what I do. Yeah. And. And I think producing the book for me, I might think, is a bit arrogant at the moment. [01:33:10] Speaker B: Right. [01:33:10] Speaker A: I don't think I'm ready. I don't think I'm ready to do it. [01:33:13] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I'm sure you'll know when that time comes, you know, and it's always a choice. It. I. I don't know what my end game is yet. I don't know whether I want to do a book. I. I think I want to do an exhibition at some stage. So, yeah, I do the exhibitions. [01:33:26] Speaker A: I do, like, do. Was the Mardi Gras here. It's. That is a fantastic. If you ever want to come up to Sydney and do good street photography, the. The Mardi Gras night is fantastic. I mean, people just want to be photographed. And I tell a lie when I said I've never asked anyone at Mardi Gras. I'm just like, photo. Yeah. And. And. And they'll be outrageous for you. [01:33:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:33:51] Speaker A: Bet. [01:33:51] Speaker B: I. I imagine it's quite different to walking up someone who's just quietly standing on the street corner asking their permission. [01:33:58] Speaker A: My favorite night. [01:34:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. That's very cool. Maybe. [01:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I don't even know when it is, but I'll come down. Yeah. But, you know, and I've bumped with a lot of other street photographers and they go, oh, you're like. You're that like a guy on. On Instagram. I'm like, oh, you're that guy who has the Rolly Flex. And. And we recognize each other from Instagram. [01:34:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Nice. I love that. That's very cool. It's a growing community in Australia, you know. I know. It's always been there it's always been there, you know, and I think back to, you know, the era of, like, Renee Ellis. We went saw his exhibition, was it last year, early in the year was at the Victorian State Library here. That was amazing because it was just he. And especially because he, he dedicated so much of his energy and creative output to documenting fringe communities, the gay LGBTQ plus communities, you know, especially. And around here, around inner city Melbourne, Prahran, South Yarra, Windsor, that sort of place. It's fascinating to look back and see street photography from the past. And I think that's part of the reason why I do what I do. I've sort of worked out that I'm documenting what is before it becomes what [01:35:14] Speaker A: was, you know, because, yeah, I'm definitely into the fringe. The fringe elements of Sydney. It's. It's a great. That weekend is a great opportunity. [01:35:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:35:25] Speaker A: Because people are really happy. It's the. It's their weekend to let their hair down. [01:35:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's nice. And they're not going to let a street photographer get in the way, so they just might as well lean into it now. [01:35:36] Speaker A: They want to, they want to be. They want to be documented, you know, they. Yeah, it's the only time I give my email. I take their email addresses, I'm gonna send them the photographs and. Yeah, and you sort of build up a dialogue with them and it's fantastic. [01:35:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Now that's very cool. Very cool indeed. Let me just go through a couple more comments and then we might wrap up in a moment for the day. Nev is back. Japan would be amazing. Yeah, absolutely. Nev. My boys want to also go to that. Yeah, we're desperate to go back session. I hope to go back next year, just even just for a week in Tokyo. Cameras, little else, you know, a little bit of shopping, actually. A lot of shopping. We tend to buy a lot of Japanese goods. Roy, Bixki's got a question. What's up with this new Leica crop mode that pretends it's a multi lens? Have you heard of this? [01:36:33] Speaker A: No. [01:36:36] Speaker B: I might need you to elaborate. Elaborate a little bit, Roy. But I know if it is what I think it is. I know that my Fujifilm, the X E5 and even the X1 hundreds I think do that. The latest one where you've got a crop mode so you can actually crop in your sensor. It'll shoot the full sensor raw. But what it does is it crops it in twice. I can't remember what the. What the distance crops are, but basically what it's doing is it's cropping to create zoom. So it's not the same as a traditional zoom lens. But in fact, even my little, my old. What is it now, 12 years old, my Fujifilm x 70 little point and shoot fixed lens tank of a camera that also has a crop mode and that thing's ancient and I was really surprised when I bought that that it actually had that feature. I don't use it because I'd rather just crop in post because you get the full raw anyway. But if you're shooting JPEG only, that would be a great feature because it really allows you to punch in. And finally, from Roy Bixby. I love Japan, but the streets need names. They have names or some have numbers. It can be confusing, that's for sure. I've been lost on more than one occasion. But hey, getting lost in Japan is not terrible. You know, you're never far from a subway station, you're never far from a food court or something fascinating worth pursuing with your camera. Phil, I think that might be a natural place to wrap up our conversation today on the the Camera Life podcast. I just want to recap a couple of people that I'm going to chase up afterwards and. And also for the sake of those viewing. So Julia Coddington is a New South Wales based photographer. Worth a look. We'll check that out. Was it Alan Shaller? Yeah, and yeah, Alan Shella. And also look up Blind Eyes. I'm pretty sure I already follow Blind Eyes, but like I was saying, the, the amount of. [01:38:34] Speaker A: And Jeff, ask the guy who does the walk like Alice. The, the. He was good with the Lightroom edits if you want to. [01:38:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:38:41] Speaker A: Get on with the Lightroom. [01:38:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that looks really interesting. And probably recommend. I had a quick squeeze while we're talking and yeah, there's a lot of. And it's not, it's not, you know, it's not necessarily like a related. It's just about working with different equipment and different processes around editing. So it looks great. Yeah, definitely worth a look. I've subscribed to that. I recommend anyone else does. [01:39:03] Speaker A: And he's very good. He's very good at answering questions on YouTube as well. If you ask him a question. [01:39:08] Speaker B: Yeah, cool. All right, I'm going to check him out. I've got him up there. So thank you so much for that. And I'll get you in touch with Andrew Chapman. Maybe you can have a chat. [01:39:17] Speaker A: Wonderful. That'd be great. [01:39:18] Speaker B: Find out if there's, you know, how to approach incorporating your Photography into your. Into your work with pain research and. And whatnot. So on behalf of. I was going to say all of us, but it's just me today because the boss didn't bother to show up. On behalf of myself and Justin and the greater camera life community, thank you so much for your time and your insight. Phil, I know you've only been doing this. This street gig now for about four years, but you. Your work is amazing. It's inspirational and it's. It's made me think twice about how I want to approach my monochrome street photography when I do it. Mind you, I edit in monochrome. I don't have a monochrome camera. I'm not that fancy. I have to fake it. [01:40:03] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's just as good, I suppose. Yeah, no, I mean, I'm really honored that you've asked me to come on. I've never done a photography podcast before. It makes me feel like what I do is worthwhile and, And I want to say thanks very much for asking me to come on. It's been amazing. Thank you. [01:40:20] Speaker B: No, my absolute. My absolute pleasure. So great talking to you. I've got lots to think about, you know, because one of the most important, important things about our craft, whether it be street photography or landscape or portraiture, is that we just keep learning. We don't assume that we've. We've reached a point and then there is no more to learn. There is always something to learn in this craft. And, And I think you've. You've exemplified that amazingly in the short time that you've been doing street. And we look forward to seeing what you achieve in the future. And of course, if you're coming to Melbourne, let me know and we'll organize a walk. Love to. [01:40:54] Speaker A: Definitely catch up for a beer or whatever. Yeah, for sure. [01:40:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a coffee man. Yeah. I'm not a beer man anymore. Had to. Yeah. Can't be a beer man anymore. But coffee and Melbourne coffee. [01:41:04] Speaker A: Yes, yes, I know, yeah, yeah, I've been privy to Melbourne coffee a few times. Very cool. [01:41:12] Speaker B: Now, folks, I. I don't know that I can roll the music because Justin's not here. I don't know how to do it without him. I. I can't do anything without him. So I'll. I'll say my goodbyes in the chat very quickly here. Uh, Phil, thank you so much, mate. Thanks. Uh, gents, good show. Greg, don't forget to set the alarm for the BFOT bookings early. Sorry, bfup booking show early Sunday. Morning. Sorry I didn't explain. You may have heard me say Beef Up a couple of times. I am referring of course to the Bright Festival of Photography which is coming up in three weeks. 21 days, 22 days, I think, and a lot of people in our community here at the Camera Life very keen beef hoppers. And on Sunday at 7am is the time that they've decided to release all the workshops. So Beef up is a, is a festival and there's lots of workshops across the whole weekend and the schedule goes live so people can actually start booking their workshops. But they've made it at 7am on a Sunday morning and Justin and I foolishly agreed that we would host a podcast to, to cover that event. So we'll see everybody very early. I think we're going to kick off at about 6:30 on Sunday morning. That's Australian Eastern Standard Time. We hope to have. Matt Crummons and Nick Fletcher will be joining us and depending on how everything goes with the BFOT website, hopefully they can stay for the whole show and there'll be no crises or fires to put out. But thank you, Philip, Great reminder. [01:42:37] Speaker A: Thank you very much. [01:42:39] Speaker B: And what do we got here? Roy Bixby. It's just that the Leica salesman was making a big deal of the crop button. [01:42:45] Speaker A: Okay. [01:42:48] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess they do that sometimes. Do your research, that's what I say. [01:42:53] Speaker A: Watch some YouTube. [01:42:55] Speaker B: Yeah. What else we got here? Another one's just come in. Coffee is the most important food group. It is. And thanks for the great conversation. Listen to still with us. Thank you so much, Lucinda. But look on that note folks, I'm going to say thank you to everyone who's joined us today live. If you, if you're new here, say g' day in the chat and uh, give us a like. It helps us out a lot. It lets others know that we've got content worth looking at. And don't forget to subscribe to the Camera Life podcast, which is proudly brought to you by Lucky Straps. That's us as well. We make genuine leather handmade camera straps in Bendigo, Victoria. We, we have a whole range of camera straps to suit every camera that you could possibly imagine. Almost every camera. But head to Luckystraps.com and if you happen to drop a camera strap or another one of our products into the cart, make sure you add code Greg. And that way you'll get a cheeky little discount on behalf of me. So thank you. But yeah, once again, Phil, thank you so much. Take care and I hope to see you again soon. All right, See everybody. Thank you. Bye. [01:43:58] Speaker A: Cheers, guys.