EP18 Master Photographer Greg Sullavan on Workshops, Competitions and Running a Studio

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Cool. We're live. Hey Greg. [00:00:05] Speaker B: Hey Justin. How are you? [00:00:07] Speaker A: I'm great. How are you? [00:00:08] Speaker B: Yeah, very good, very good. [00:00:10] Speaker A: Did you, you, you're in the studio today. You've got a studio in Brisbane, have you, did you have any shoots scheduled today? [00:00:18] Speaker B: No shoots today. So I built my studio just after like brief history of the world. I worked for Canada, Australia for 20 years, then got done a couple of years ago and I thought, well, you know what, what am I going to spend my redundancy on? So I built the studio. [00:00:33] Speaker A: You built a studio? Okay, so when, how long has the studio been open for? [00:00:38] Speaker B: Two years, pretty much. [00:00:40] Speaker A: Two years, pretty much. Okay. [00:00:42] Speaker B: And. [00:00:42] Speaker A: All right, and so how much studio photography had you done prior to building your own studio? [00:00:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess without sort of running through a resume of my background, I did a degree in commercial photography at the Queensland College of Art. So I sort of had this love of studio photography. Then I basically packed a suitcase up and moved to Sydney and joined a glamour photography studio business. She shoots a day, six days a week. Wow, pretty intense. I think I sat on about 10 bucks an hour down in Sydney there, which is not easy. So studio lighting has always been, you know, for one of a better term, one of my superpowers and I enjoy doing it. [00:01:28] Speaker A: Right, right. So you were very experienced. Like when you were sort of looking to set up a studio, you weren't thinking, hey, I'd like to try my hand at studio photography. After doing years of something different, like a different style of photography. You've worked in studios, multiple studios for years and then now you wanted, you want a place of your own? [00:01:50] Speaker B: I guess, yeah, a creative space where I could fulfill my potential was the way I thought about it. And even if I wasn't successful with what I did, at least I had a place to work which is basically my backyard. So you know, I could, I could take the time to build my business and have a real crack at it, you know, without sort of having to have, do another full time job just to make up the loss of running a photographic business which a lot of us can relate to. [00:02:16] Speaker A: It does happen, it's tricky, especially, especially in the early days, that's for sure. Got a, got a few comments coming in already. Matt talks photography. G' day Justin and Greg. G' day Matt. Good to see you. [00:02:27] Speaker B: Hey Matt. [00:02:28] Speaker A: And the photography workshop co the man, the myth, the legend, Greg Sullivan. Even though I've worked with Greg for 20 years, I'm even more amped to hear about his work from Jay. Jay. We had on last week. [00:02:42] Speaker B: Thanks, Jay. At least I've got one fan out there. I appreciate that, mate. [00:02:46] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:48] Speaker A: So you. You not just a studio owner and photographer, but you also run workshops and tours, some of which in collaboration with the Photography Workshop Co. How does that work? [00:03:06] Speaker B: We founded the Photo Workshop Co. Photography Workshop Co. After, you know, Jay Collier, Scott Stamic and myself, we wrapped up our time at Canon. We were Canon Collective ambassadors and we really did run workshops for eight, nine years for Cannon Australia. So I don't think that I ran workshops and experiences because that's what I had a burning passion and desire to do. But we did so much of it and we were quite successful. We built a great community of really great photographers, good people that like spending time together, which was always the. The magic of what we did. And when that time came to an end, we. We thought, well, you know, it'd be a shame just to give that away and why don't we just start something else which is not as brand specific as a Canon Collective? [00:03:50] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. It makes total sense. And it is something that's missing, I think, for a lot of photographers is that sense of community or even just the ability to go and hang out with other people that are trying to learn something new or, or go on an adventure somewhere. And, you know, if you're a photographer, you may not want to go on a solo trip, so being able to sort of jump in with a crew of other people and an experienced photographer or two is. Yeah, I think there's. Honestly, there's not enough of it. It's something that I think there should be more of. And it's actually one of the reasons I'm trying to find people like yourself and Jay to get on the podcast, because I think there's definitely a lot of great things happening that not enough people know about in the, in the photo industry when it comes to workshops and tours and just experiences in general. So, yeah, trying to spread the word. [00:04:44] Speaker B: When I started my photography career in the 90s, we were very lone wolf photographers, you know, and we would never share what we learned with other people because that's our trade secret net. There is still a lot of that. And, and I, even, even now, I'm still like, I'm. I'm not gonna. I'm gonna teach you. I'm gonna teach you everything. But, you know, over my years at Canon Collective, you know, it took years to be able to actually stop that mentality, to break it down a bit and say that, you know, the people coming into my group and not my competitors. They're my friends and we share an interest, you know. [00:05:19] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:05:20] Speaker B: They're not going to turn up on my doorstep and start shooting portraits, you know, or whatever I do. It's not, it's not their interest. Most of the people that come into our community, they're quite happy in their full time careers but they have a shared love of, you know, finding that creativity through photography. [00:05:37] Speaker A: 100, 100 and also I would argue the next step that even if they were competitors or to be future competitors, there is more great photographers I think will build more desire for great photography. I don't think, I think it's that, that old thing of growing the pie rather than, you know, what, what slice of the pie can I get? Let's, let's grow the entire pie and that because you know, there are a lot of people that don't invest like something, for instance, like family photography. There's plenty of people that just forget about it, don't know that it exists or whatever. And you know, more great photographers doing good work should end up with more people investing in something like that, more awareness and that kind of thing. So it can even be that where it's, you know, not, not looking at people as competitors but looking at as, you know, growing the entire industry by sharing knowledge and, and upskilling everybody together to do good work. [00:06:38] Speaker B: You know, so 100% correct. Like as, as a, as an industry, if we get better and we improve, we, we kind of own the narrative and we can, we can charge more. Whereas I think, you know, that probably came out not the exact way I wanted to say it. But as we skill up and we get better and we can do say video or high quality photography or things like this, you know, it's, it's good for the industry that we stand out from. I guess the people who have just bought a camera for the first time and think, you know what, I might give this wedding photography a crack. I mean we all start somewhere but at the same time you just don't know what you don't know. Wedding is hard to shoot. [00:07:19] Speaker A: That's exactly right. Do you shoot any weddings? Have you done that in your career? [00:07:24] Speaker B: I do a few. I guess A long time ago now I thought that maybe I'd be a full time wedding photographer. And so I built up my partnership with my wife Maria to a point where I could have probably gone full time at it. But I just, I don't know what you can say about weddings. I think it's like it is A young person's game. As you get a bit older, like so proportionally you get older, but the brides and groom stay the same age, 24, 25, 26. And there comes a point where you're a different generation to them. And you know, the interest wasn't quite there enough for me to want to do it. I felt like the bride and groom deserve better. So long story short, I do still shoot a few weddings, but I probably wouldn't do more than 10 a year. That's, that's enough. [00:08:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that's enough. Find it, I guess because when it's a lower volume, they can be quite interesting finding photographically and technically, you know, like each one is a new challenge. There's a lot going on on the days. But yeah, once you get into the sort of the higher volume, you know, if you're trying to build a full time business out of it, you really do have to connect with that industry and, and love it to, to be able to give up, you know, the majority of your weekends for the year through, through summer. Yeah, you really do have to love it. It was, it was a, it was one of those things. For me, being booked in 18 months, two years in advance can, can really start to not, not get to you. But like, I don't know, it's hard to explain. It's like, yeah, you gotta love it. You really have to love it. [00:09:01] Speaker B: You gotta want to be there. And when you find yourself the day before wedding thinking, oh no, another wedding shoot tomorrow, that's the point for me where I was like, you know what, it might be time to step away from that. [00:09:11] Speaker A: That's right. And like you say, yeah, the couples deserve better. And that's. I still, I still shoot a few weddings a year with my business partner Jim, but, and a few is, is fun. You know, it's like I'll have different gear by the time the next one rolls around. I'll be excited to try a new lens out or a different technique or something like that. And that's awesome. Whereas I like bringing that excitement into it. But yeah, if you, if you're doing it every weekend and you're not sort of stoked about it, that for me that was a reason to back off. Yeah, yeah. [00:09:43] Speaker B: Let someone else do it who really wants to be there. [00:09:46] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. Very cool. So let's. So you've been a, you've been a photographer for 25 years. [00:09:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Maybe a little longer. [00:09:56] Speaker A: Maybe a little longer. [00:09:58] Speaker B: I've stopped saying the exact number. I say 25 plus. [00:10:03] Speaker A: Okay. Okay. All right, we'll call it 25 plus. And did I read correctly, you're a double master photographer, Master of photography. Yeah, tell me about that. [00:10:18] Speaker B: I got caught up in the AIPP game. The Australian Institute of Professional Photography, actually. I couldn't even tell you what year early 2000s maybe. And I loved it. Like, I was learning. I was around people like, you know, Peter Eastway and Tony Hewitt, Marcus Bell, Jovant, you know, all of these massive big characters who I just looked up to and still do to this day think that they're just, you know, they're, they're the best. Yeah. And that's where Jerry Gionis, Jerry Jonas was. Was there. I think he just moved to America. Oh, yeah, in those days. And I could, I could name a lot more. I'm just trying to think of a few more names. But, you know, I loved all those guys and I looked after them and girls, you know, there was some, you know, amazing female photographers there too, like, you know, Kelly Brown as well, a little bit later. And I looked up to them so much and I loved listening to them talk. I loved going to the judging. I won my first silver award at the Queensland Professional Photographic Awards. We call them the quappers or the QPPAs. And, you know, and I'm sitting there watching the judging and you get the flutters in your heart and the image turns around and you're like, oh, my goodness, that's my print. It looks terrible. I'm a bad photographer. And the judges are like, you know, they put a score and I'm like, oh, that's an award. I'm an award winning photographer. This is a wonderful print. I always knew it was going to do well and I got caught up in that and I. And I loved it. I don't regret a minute of it. I think it was brilliant. And over the years, I got, I got my associate and then my first master's and then I was invited to train as a judge, which I accepted. It took me probably seven years before I felt like I was ready to judge other people's work. But that was the brilliant thing about learning how to read images under some of these great judges and great trainers. That when I was ready, I knew I was ready. And I love talking about the print and I love talking. I love arguing with other judges as well, but not in like a nasty way. I feel like the discourse, yes, the beauty of having a panel of five judges is the argument, and it's the theater of it. And I loved it, you know, and every Great judge needs an enemy on the panel to bring out the best in them, and that makes it even better. So. [00:12:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:38] Speaker B: And then I won my second Masters. The AIPP didn't like calling it a double Master. They like calling it your, you're a master one. But now the AIPP is not there. I just say double Master because it's easy to understand. It's not like a degree. It's like you earn your way there from winning a certain number of points and awards to become a Master and then a master one and right through and so forth until people get to their Grandmasters, which, by the time I got my Double Master, I wasn't really. I was done there with that. I didn't feel the need to win awards anymore. Yeah, because I think when you start out down that track, you want to feel like you're good enough to belong. And then when you. When you do feel like you, You. You do belong, you don't. The desire is not there to enter them anymore. You just move on and. And then from there, basically, I thought, you know what, I might give this Instagram thing a go for a while, because you move on creatively. Yeah, I loved it. To this day, it was the best thing I've probably done, you know, one of the best things ever done. [00:13:39] Speaker A: It's so interesting that you say that about moving on and sort of giving the Instagram thing a go, because so now the. The AIPP is not there now, and Instagram, for me, is feeling less and less like a medium that I want to share images on. I've never really done a great job of it anyway. I don't. I don't post very much, but even then I feel like, you know, I look at photos on Instagram and then I look at them, you know, either printed or on a big monitor. And that's. That's the level of detail that I want to be able to share and. And, you know, sharing it via Instagram, you know, it just doesn't convey what you've been able to do in the camera very well. You know, you could. You can sort of get away with some pretty sloppy editing on Instagram and stuff like that, because it's only getting shown on a phone. It's not the same. Doesn't have the same level of detail or scrutiny. And what I've been wondering, it's like, what. Where is the medium now to share photos when you're trying to express yourself, develop your photography? Beyond Instagram, is there anything like the AIPP award style where you can get critiqued and judged in a, in a community. Is there anything like that now that you know of? [00:15:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I haven't taken the time to look into it as much as I, I would probably like to. I understand that New Zealand, I think it's NZIPP still do a very, very good job and a lot of the, you know, the great Australian photographers that were known through the AIPP are doing us have been work through there and becoming part of that community which is still quite successful. And I think there is another photographic award, I think I can only remember the three letter acronym which is app Australian Professional Photography. I'm guessing, which only recently. I've just been thinking, you know what, maybe I will put a couple photos back in. But for me, like you mentioned, what is the next thing to share imagery. And I think in a way you're doing this through YouTube and I've been trying to start my own YouTube channel. You know, I'd say rather unsuccessfully because I never had that interest in learning video until just recently. But I am sort of starting to do that and become interested in that. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah, something. Sorry, go on. [00:16:05] Speaker B: Sorry. I just noticed that that's, I think that's Matt Palmer there talking. I just recognize his profile pic. [00:16:11] Speaker A: Well, I was just, I was just about to bring that up. MATT TALKS PHOTOGRAPHY Greg was a huge part of my photography journey and introducing me to that community of photographers. Assuming that community being sort of those, those big names of the, the AIPP scene as award winning photographers and, and household names. Very cool. [00:16:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well household names to me definitely like, you know, I think they were, I still think they're my heroes to be honest. But Matt might be able to drop, drop a comment on, on what people are doing now. I know he runs a gallery down there in Melbourne with Micah Boynton. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Oh really? Right. [00:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah, in Bright. I think he might be a good one to get on your. [00:16:51] Speaker A: I was just thinking that I'm like, okay. I wonder if Matt will talks photography with me on the podcast. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Tina. We'll find out in the comment section soon. [00:17:02] Speaker A: We will see. But yeah, I, I definitely think YouTube is, you know, it's, it's a medium to try and connect with more photographers, that's for sure. There's so much going on. It's, I have the same kind of drive like I want to make YouTube videos and things like that and I, I have learned video over the past three or four years and I've been making videos for clients which have been really fun, but I just haven't been able to push myself to actually sort of create anything of my own. And that's kind of where this podcast came from because it's, it's a lot, feels a lot more natural for me to just sit down and have a conversation rather than trying to sort of craft a, craft a finished video that I'm in. So that's where this come about and what I've figured out. Even just from the early days of doing this. There's so many people out there like yourself and Jay that are well known, but not well known in the sense of like, yeah, you don't have a hundred thousand YouTube subscribers or something like that. Like you see all, all the kind of the people that are around and popular on Instagram and YouTube. But there's so many photographers doing cool things and great work, running workshops and all that sort of stuff. And you've got to, you got to seek them out. They're not necessarily always easy to find or put in your feed, you know, because something went viral or whatever. [00:18:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:34] Speaker A: So I'm hoping this is a way to kind of uncover more, More photographers. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's a great idea. There's a huge number of great photographers and I guess that, you know, you've got two different ways of thinking about it. Like we get on a social media because we want to be insta famous and you know, do all the great things that these famous people do. But then you've got another group of people who are probably actually introverts, you know, like myself and you know, like a lot of other photographers. And once we're busy enough to make a living, we don't sort of seek and pursue that kind of publicity anymore. [00:19:06] Speaker A: That's exactly right. And also you may just may not have an interest in, you know, some people are just also just way too busy doing the work and that, that's something I find myself in the trap of, you know, I sort of, I get to go away on some pretty cool, pretty cool trips actually. Like one of the main things I do now is shoot content for a mountain bike publication. So we'll do mountain bike reviews and things like that on a week to week basis, but also pretty regularly I'll go away on a, on a three or four day trip to highlight a mountain bike destination and film, film and photograph a whole trail network and a town and things like that and make a tourism video for it. And it's, it's really fun work. We do cool stuff. I'm out on the bike all day and I'm like, wow, this would make great behind the scenes content or whatever for YouTube. Maybe I'll make a video this weekend and then I get there and I'm so busy just doing the work that I don't even have a second to think about it. And that's happened a lot. [00:20:12] Speaker B: It kind of does your head in a little bit because I think that as photographers we're perfectionists too and we don't want to do something half ass. So when we go into it, it's wholehearted and we can only do a certain number of things at a time. You can't do a half ass job at this. [00:20:28] Speaker A: No. And if you're trying to. I've sort of mentioned this as well to other photographers. Like particularly, you know, if you're at a wedding and you're a wedding photographer and you're got plenty of time to make a quick reel on the day or something like that. Yeah, awesome, go for it. But, but if it's getting in the way of, of doing the actual work and you're sort of doing it to promote yourself on Instagram by making a reel of you, you know, behind the scenes of the wedding, that starts to get a bit, you know, questionable as to how much time you should be putting into on the day marketing versus on the day working your ass off for the clients kind of thing. So yeah, that's where I get stuck. Got a. So the Australian Photographic Prize is the app. [00:21:13] Speaker B: Question direct to Matthew. Are you involved in that one as well? Matt? Because I know Matt was quite involved with the AIPP as well. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Okay, we'll have to. [00:21:20] Speaker B: That's a question without notice. [00:21:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And then he also said, why not? I'm hoping that's too coming on the podcast. That'll be great. And Photo Genius. Good morning, gents. Good morning. Long time no see. [00:21:35] Speaker B: That's Paul. I don't know if you know Photogenius. [00:21:37] Speaker A: Yes. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Full time living from his YouTube channel. [00:21:40] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I do know Paul. I actually chatted to him about making some custom straps and I dropped the ball all unfortunately on them. This was ages ago now. But yeah, his, his YouTube channel constantly. I'm, I'm like, how do you make so many videos and do this? Yeah, I, I need to. Yeah, it's, it's impressive. If anyone is looking for a source of information on all things photography, whether it's getting off auto mode onto manual or all sorts of stuff, head to photo genius on YouTube. You've probably already seen it. If you're on this channel, you've probably already seen it. But, yeah, it does makes amazing videos. Good morning. [00:22:19] Speaker B: After you subscribe to the Camera Life podcast, definitely subscribe to Paul Ferris from Photogenius. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. Just subscribe to all of us. That'd be great. [00:22:29] Speaker B: All of us. [00:22:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Hey, so your wife is also a photographer? [00:22:37] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:22:39] Speaker A: So you guys run the studio together? Sunburst Studio? Or does she have a separate. Separate business under her name? Like, how does that work? [00:22:47] Speaker B: Yeah, so she's. She. She's quite separate to what we do. Like, one thing I've learned is that, you know, if you've got a creative couple, you don't think the same way and you have different goals and different aspirations, there's no point telling the other person, this is how you could do it better. Because it doesn't work like that. They're on their own creative trip. It's separate to yours. So we, you know, Sunburst Studio is kind of the. Let's just call it the parent company. Maria trades as Maria Photography. She does her own thing, and she's just fairly completely independent to me. But sometimes when I'm good, she lets me hold a light for her, and that's the extent of it. I call myself the world's worst photographic assistant, but sometimes I'm good, too. [00:23:29] Speaker A: World's worst. Is that because you're also like, hey, you should probably do it more like this or more like that? She's like, shh. [00:23:35] Speaker B: No, never. Never. Okay. So part of my job is to not just look light, it's to be funny as well, because, you know, you're not dealing with models here. They're families and people, you know, Dad's nervous, doesn't want to be there. Mum. Mum just wants the kids to not misbehave. So if there's a clown there doing stupid things. Yeah, that's my role to. To just help ease that tension and make people have it. You know, they should have a good time. So there's like a. A happy family memory attached to the family portrait. Like, that's kind of what we're aiming for. So, you know, if Maria says to me something like, you know, these guys are a bit stiff. Whatever it takes, just do it and make them smile. Whatever it takes. And I'm like, all right, you said it. You can actually look at my YouTube channel. You have to scroll. Sorry, not YouTube. My. My Instagram account where. Where I picked up a little sand crab and, you know, brought it up to her ear really slowly, and at the exact moment, it pinches her ear. And I was really proud because she didn't drop the camera. So it was amazing. That's what I mean by the worst. Worst photographic assistant. Because how many people will jump on there and put a crab on their way? So yeah, you'll have to go down a fair bit, but keep going. It's. [00:24:47] Speaker A: Let's find it. We got it. I need to see. [00:24:49] Speaker B: Got to find it now. [00:24:50] Speaker A: Yeah. How far down we going? [00:24:54] Speaker B: Not too much further. Coming, coming. That's it, that's it. Stop. Go back. [00:25:02] Speaker A: Oh, oh, I went straight past it. All right, let's see. Hopefully, hopefully this works. Let's see how we go. Do we need sound? [00:25:09] Speaker B: Go in. Uhoh. [00:25:17] Speaker A: That's unreal. [00:25:20] Speaker B: So this is the kind of. And for everybody who knows me and I love wildlife, that crab was not hurt. We gave her Maria's earlobe to eat afterwards and it was fine. [00:25:30] Speaker A: That's so good. That is so great. I didn't think. I thought you were just going to hold it nearby. I didn't think it was actually going to latch on like that. That's awesome. [00:25:38] Speaker B: The good thing is Marie didn't drop the camera and we got the smiles and everything was great. [00:25:43] Speaker A: Lighten the mood a little bit. [00:25:45] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:25:46] Speaker A: That's awesome. I see. Is that a Godox trigger on top of the camera? I could see there. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:54] Speaker A: Is that the preferred lighting? Do you guys use the same lighting setup in the studio to get like, you guys share lighting equipment? [00:26:03] Speaker B: So basically we do. So I've got a full Godox setup that I use in my studio here, but on the outdoor locations we just use one AD 600 which is their most powerful flash. And the idea is in that late afternoon we try and balance the available light with. With that. That extra flash as well. [00:26:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I might even. I'll bring up an example of that, of the outdoor. I saw there was some bear with me. Yeah, I also use Godox. I switched to them. Oh, I can't even remember when. Maybe when the first AD 200s come out or something like that. I used to use. Yeah, So I used to shoot Canon and started off with. I had some cheap triggers and stuff in the. In the early days and then went to. Went to Canon's wireless system basically. You know, when the 600 RTS. [00:27:02] Speaker B: Oh yeah. [00:27:03] Speaker A: So yeah, yeah, that was a. That was a great system. The only downside was it wasn't, you know, as modular as when Godox come out and it sort of started becoming more and more modular. And they're integrated lithium batteries as opposed to having, you know, using rechargeable double A's and stuff like that. That were all the reasons because we, I was primarily shooting weddings at the time and some sports and we, we always did some like sunset photos kind of became a thing for us. Sunset photos, rain photos, those kind of things. And Flash was obviously a big part of it and, and just lit first dance photos with Flash and, and stuff like that. So, so yeah, switched from the, the Canon RT system. Also switch from Canon to Nikon at about a similar time. So being able to just knowing that with Godox, you know, whatever system you're on, you can just get a trigger for it as opposed to having to, you know, buy your sell your entire Flash system and, and change brands or whatever. Yeah, that, that was the main reason for switching. [00:28:07] Speaker B: I still do. I, I do. One of my clients is the Gold Coast Titans and I do a fair bit of work for, for them, particularly on game day activations, which means that, you know, if it's raining, I still work, you know, like a lot of those sport guys do. So I, I do still run a suite of 600 EX Mark 2s with the, with the triggers. [00:28:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:29] Speaker B: Just because they're weatherproof. [00:28:31] Speaker A: Wow. Okay. Yeah, we're my, my strategy is more like I just let them die or we put, we put plastic bags over them sometimes. But yeah, we just, it just. Yeah, yeah, good. Actually this, Ziploc bags, like a good Ziploc like sandwich bag are surprisingly pretty good. You know, if you get them, if you put them in the right spot, like they don't cut the light down too much or spread it too much or whatever. And they obviously pretty waterproof. So they've saved us on a lot of shoots. But yeah, a weatherproof flash system would be nicer. [00:29:03] Speaker B: But yeah, from the field, you know, for anybody new as photography, you're like, oh, wow, light bulb moment. [00:29:10] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Just get, get some big sandwich bags from the supermarket and off you go. If you, yeah, if you can't afford a full RT system. [00:29:21] Speaker B: Yeah, they are, they're not cheap. [00:29:22] Speaker A: No, no. [00:29:24] Speaker B: So yeah, there's some of Maria's work there. [00:29:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that was just a one, One that struck me initially is just extremely well balanced exposure and, and not something you could do, you know, without, without lighting. Just. Yeah, extremely well balanced and nice lighting. So what, what sort of modifier have you got on something like the 600. The Godox AD 600? [00:29:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it's the Godox AD 600. I've tried a few different softbox combinations, you know, from the X lite to the Godox ones that comes with it. The Godox ones that come with it, they're actually very nice and well built. But you've got to put all those damn spokes in. I think there's eight of them in an octave box. And you know, you're trying to set that up in front of the client. It just, it kills the mood, if you know what I mean. So. So the X Lite ones are really good. They have the umbrella ones that pop up but I was finding they actually, they broke a bit. So at the moment I'm using the Neewa, the Amazon Joby, which was fairly cheap as these things go, but it reviews very well. So I thought, yeah, you know what, I'll give it a go. And it's actually very good. [00:30:34] Speaker A: I've been pretty happy with. I haven't got the big one yet. I've got a few different ones. But what I'm using for my light in the studio here is, is actually from a video light company called Aputure. They make the light, what are they called? Light storms and stuff like that. Lighting with Bowens mount. But they have the Aputure light Dome series and it's pretty, it seems pretty robust and fairly fast to, to click everything into place. You don't have to put each, you know, rod in or anything like that. It'll. It all sort of clicks. Clicks together. Yeah, pretty happy with them. Comes with a grid and everything. So. [00:31:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I always want to try new softboxes so I've got to be careful. I'm not the, you know that gear guy that just buys everything and then doesn't use it all. Yeah, I love softbox and I love different light shaping tools. [00:31:24] Speaker A: But hey, if you, if you were to make YouTube videos about it then it seems like a pretty good reason to buy new softboxes, I would say. [00:31:34] Speaker B: Yeah, that's not a bad idea. [00:31:36] Speaker A: Might be a thing. Who's this? I've just moved over to the Photix. Photix, how do you pronounce that? Softboxes, the new G Capsule range are amazing. Built in magnetic gel system. I like the sound of that. [00:31:51] Speaker B: Oh yeah, gels it. That's one thing I'm sort of getting into as well. You know what sort of gels can you sort of patch in the middle there to get different effects even if you want to do some mixed color temperatures stuff. [00:32:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. [00:32:04] Speaker B: That sounds like a good tip. [00:32:05] Speaker A: Yeah, very cool. [00:32:06] Speaker B: I wanted to, when I, when I left Canon I wanted to buy The Broncolor system. We've been using the Broncolor gear at Canon. They're actually distributed by Sun Studio in Australia. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:16] Speaker B: And I love the kit and it's very well made, it's beautiful equipment. But the amount of money would have to out later to get a full suite of studio lighting and light shaping tools. It just for me it wasn't realistic. So that's where the Godox is like a quarter of the price. And I tell you what, it does everything it says it's going to do. Although I would like their batteries to improve a little. I have gone through a few of the batteries. [00:32:41] Speaker A: Interesting. So you've had batteries die or just not hold their charge very well. [00:32:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I've probably been through about four or five now that have just. They, they get so flat they can't be re recharged again. And I have sent them away but they can't be saved and I have to buy new ones but you know. Yeah, giving Rob from KL a bit of a wrap. He always looks after me really well. From kl? [00:33:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it is really nice. Back in the early days of Godox it was not easy to get them from, from somewhere reputable like kl. It took a little while for. I just remember when we bought sort of the first stuff it was like some, you know, buying it online from like the US and, and things like that. And then it started popping up in a few places in Australia and then once, once I saw places like KL stocking it, I was like, all right, this is, this is good. Now it's, you know, it's going to be easier to get things or if something goes wrong because once when, when I was buying like a trigger for $60 and a sort of a speed light style flash for a maybe 250 or something getting into the system it was like, oh, if this dies it's not a big deal but when you're spending $1400 or whatever on an ad, 600, you know, it's not, it's not a throwaway item that you're buying so you kind of want, you want to be getting it from somewhere reputable. That can give you some backup support if you need. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Yeah, it look, it is a professional light. It's very good. [00:34:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm stoked with houses. We actually bought one when I was shooting weddings more and Jim still uses it now we bought one and it pretty much gets pulled out every now and then for something different but it gets used heavily for like that kind of A makeshift photo booth that we set up for people at their weddings. So it's just like a camera with a remote on a tripod with a light behind it, and guests can jump in and just press the button as many times as they want. And that flash gets hammered. And it. We haven't had any battery issues with it yet, so. Yeah, it's, It's. [00:34:52] Speaker B: You must be using them enough. Yeah. The problem I get into is, is because I need spare batteries as well. So if I do a big. A big shoot, I need to sort of swap over the batteries. [00:35:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:04] Speaker B: And so if the second battery is not getting as much use, it tends to be, you know, used a lot intensely and then nothing and then a lot intensely. So I'd say what's doing it Be part of the. [00:35:16] Speaker A: Part of the issue. Yeah. Matt says Maria's portraiture is excellent. Runs in the family. [00:35:25] Speaker B: Thanks. The. [00:35:27] Speaker A: So, okay, so you. You don't really cross over into the family photography world then? I. I guess you sort of look. Look to more corporate and. And that sort of stuff. Or you do. You do some as well? [00:35:41] Speaker B: Not family portraits. No, it's. It's just not my thing. And Maria's so good. And I just instantly return those referrals over to Maria. But when I left Canon, I thought, you know what I'm really good at? I love pet photography. I'm gonna run a pet photography studio. That's what I'm gonna do. [00:35:56] Speaker A: Yep. [00:35:56] Speaker B: However, it's not. Look, the photography is great, but getting the customers who will pay the money for the portraits is hard. [00:36:04] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:05] Speaker B: Sorry, Pardon me. I'll just go drink water. [00:36:09] Speaker A: Go for it. I'll bring up some. I think there was a couple of pet photos hiding in here somewhere. [00:36:16] Speaker B: Yeah, somewhere there. But in the meantime, you know, to keep the studio, the dollars ticking over, I did more and more corporate work. So some event photography and certainly, you know, people refreshing their websites with their corporate portraits. So I'd go out and set a studio set on location, and that seems to be what I'm getting hired for. So I'm kind of getting no pet photography. But, you know, the corporate work is quite good. And I haven't, you know, touch wood, had problems with payment. People are, you know, people are good. It seems to be this thing where you're. And you learn this when you run a business. You're spending people's business company money. It's tax deduction. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:56] Speaker B: And whereas. [00:36:59] Speaker A: It'S a lot, it's. Well, not a luxury. Well, yeah, it probably is. It's a luxury thing. It's, you know, you don't need it. They, people would value it, I'm sure. But yeah, it's different and it's, it's money that's coming straight out of their savings account or whatever. Whereas like you say, if someone, if someone's got a business and they need staff photos for a website, they need staff photos. It's. They need them. It's just a matter of how much, you know, do we want to invest into how good we get. So yeah, if you look at say. [00:37:29] Speaker B: A dental clinic and you go into the website and one's got home job photographs for an iPhone in low light and tungsten, you know, it's not particularly good. And then the other guys had a genuine professional go in and shoot it. Which dentist are you going to go to? One of them doesn't really look very professional. [00:37:44] Speaker A: That's exactly it. And yeah, and especially if you solve the problem, a lot of people have this issue as well as like, oh, you know, we just did our staff photos and now we've, you know, one person's left, two, we've hired two new people and ah, it's going to be hard to. Whereas if you can solve that problem where you can kind of be like, look, I can get, I can get you the same look in six months time when you've got different staff and you need to update a couple of people, it'll look exactly the same and it's easy to organize. You just ring me, I'll book it in. That is a problem that I know a lot of businesses worry about when investing in sort of staff photos to start with. They think, oh, I bet you as soon as we get these done, someone will leave and someone new will start and then it's basically they feel like they've wasted all that money. But yeah. Is that something that you talk to them about? Do you sort of explain that that's something you can make it very repeatable and easy? [00:38:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a very astute comment actually, Justin, because one of the things I talk about when I do my sales pitch is that I will create a custom color profile for you for your shoot. So basically every time I go back, I will, you know, basically have a very good understanding of the right color management to take into the next shoot. You know, little things like even just what the focal length of the lens is. I mean, there's the number of times when I do my homework on someone's website and they don't have consistent portraits across the whole Team. Yeah, it doesn't look right. Even just somebody shooting one at 50 mil, another person shooting at 24 mil. It just doesn't sit right. But, you know, that is something I talk about in the pitch. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Yeah, nice. Nice. It is, it's. And it's honest. It's something that I think a lot of. A lot of people that have businesses, they just don't have time to think about that or they've been burnt in the past by, you know, maybe they had a photographer that, you know, was there when they needed them, but then the next time they needed them, they disappeared or whatever and then. Yeah, inconsistent results, I guess, is the issue. So that's. I don't know, it's. It's just something that I think more people that are doing commercial work could really put in front of their clients when, when they first speak to them. Like you say, like whether, whether you go to the. The detail of saying, we'll create a custom color profile or just so of saying that, you know, everything's. Everything's written down and repeatable so that I can come back in one year, two years and deliver a similar result with new staff. Yeah, that's great. [00:40:18] Speaker B: It's a big selling feature. How do you stand out from your competitors? You know, everybody's doing pretty good work these days, so how, how do you make sure that they're going to book you rather than somebody else? And it's these little things that you offer as an. It's included in the package price that you do anyway, and it actually means something if you take the time to explain it. [00:40:39] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Do you find you have clients wanting to come into the studio for commercial work, or do they prefer you to come to them on location? Like, what sort of balance are you seeing of you going on location versus in the studio since you actually have a studio available? [00:40:56] Speaker B: I gotta say that most people. People don't want to come out to my studio. They want me to come and set up in their business. They want me to start early, so it's a minimal disruption to their workday. And they're just happy for me to set up a studio on location. I tell them the requirements of the room that I need and that's it. They're actually really easy and good to work with. Usually if there's a small, like a startup business and budgets an issue for their photography, I'll say, you know what, this will save you money. Come into my studio. That way I don't have to travel, I don't have to set anything up or much. And you know, I know exactly how to do it. I know how to light it. It's gonna be great. [00:41:35] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And that's a great, great way to. Instead of either having to talk about, you know, a discount or have, have to leave the work because that you're out of their budget. That's a great way to kind of make it work for everybody. Make it a little bit easier for you to not have to lug everything. Yeah. Down on location. You do. [00:41:55] Speaker B: It's the sales clothes as well, isn't it? So. Yeah, well, if I come out to you, it's going to cost xyz. But I tell you what, if I could save you 200 bucks, would you take it? Yes, yes. [00:42:07] Speaker A: Sound like a castle. [00:42:09] Speaker B: I was a Canon for quite a few years. I was a sales rep as well. So yeah. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Okay, tell me more about it. How did you get involved with Canon? How did. Tell me more about that part of your career. [00:42:19] Speaker B: Yeah, well, a long time ago there was a young Greg Sullivan, a young photographer with hair and all that, you know, lots going on. [00:42:28] Speaker A: All that good stuff. [00:42:29] Speaker B: Yeah, all the stuff that you need to recruit a good wife and things like that. So I basically straight after finishing my degree, I had a short stint working in a camera house on the Gold Coast. And I thought this is not really what I did my degree for. And I packed up a suitcase and moved to Sydney. And I met a guy called Paul Mooney who ran Starshot's photographic studio back in the day. Very interesting character. He had a, his head office literally in Oxford street in Sydney, which is obviously where the Mardi Gras goes up and down. He was like a big, big in that scene. He was a really like a larger than life character. And he was very important in my formative years as a photographer to, you know, he basically straight talked to me about a lot of things and it was a real wake up call in a lot of ways. How to run a business, how to be a photographer. So I worked there for a few years before there came a point where I'm like, you know what, making 15 bucks an hour working for someone else in Sydney is probably, maybe, maybe I could do better. Maybe there's more out there. So I thought, I thought I need to work for a bigger company. And the truth was, is that I was using Mamiya 645 medium format cameras and I had a good understanding of that. But you know, I didn't really understand the 35 millimeter system. You know, these things were starting to take off and you know, it was the old big white lenses and stuff. I then I thought, I'll get in the bottom of the level at a company like Canon and just see what happens. And I think it was the year 2000, so I would have been 23 years old at that time where I started as a sales clerk at Canon. And I thought, I'm just going to work here for a while. I'm going to learn how to use cameras and sort of see where it goes. [00:44:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:23] Speaker B: And from there I sort of. I founded the Photo Video helpline, Canon Australia. [00:44:30] Speaker A: Really? [00:44:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I was the only person there. So we became a team of a few people and then we had a team. Then I managed a team of pre sales consultants. So, you know, little secret. If you call a big company with a pre sales inquiry, you get your call answered within 60 seconds because you are about to buy a product. But if you call with tech support questions, you could be there for 20 minutes because you're no longer as important to them anymore. So we did tech support and pre sales and we had a, you know, in the end, before that got outsourced to the Philippines, we had a team of about 20 people there and it was a very, very good helpline. A lot of the best and brightest young people in Canada, Australia came out of there and started moving into sales. And you know, it was a good breeding ground for people to, to come out and become the, you know, the next sales rep, the next technician, the next pro manager or whatever. So yeah, it was a really good. Yeah. And unfortunately when they outsourced that, that was kind of like the end of that line of people coming through. But by that stage I'd been. I'd moved from Sydney back up to Brisbane as a merchandiser. [00:45:39] Speaker A: What sort of time period was that from when you started with Canon to where you. Until you moved back to Brisbane? [00:45:46] Speaker B: About five years. [00:45:47] Speaker A: Five years, yeah. [00:45:48] Speaker B: You know, and the helpline is that, you know, sales clerk. You know, my memory could be a bit hazy on the exact dates now, but I was a sales clerk for a year, then I became the helpline consultant for a year and then pre sales for a year, then, you know, so on and so forth and just was able to sort of move up the ladder a little bit every now and then. And I got my first crack at managing a small team of people back there. I had a lot of wonderful opportunities through there. But when Alan King, who was the state manager of Queensland came through one day and said, you know, you should apply for this Job, not saying you'll get it, but apply for it here. You've got family in Queensland. Maybe you want to move back up. So I went through the interview process and I got the job and I moved back up. [00:46:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. How much photography work were you doing during those years? Were you doing paid work under your own name? Were you seeking that out, or were you sort of solely focused on Canon and just using photography as a hobby? Like, what did that look like? [00:46:51] Speaker B: Great question. Back then, it was actually a conflict of interest for me to be running my own photographic business at Canon Australia. But I did, of course. How do you stop being a photographer? You just are. So I started my partnership with Maria and we were shooting wedding photography after hours and on the side. So we got to a point where we actually had about 30 weddings booked for the following year, where I thought, this is the moment where I could go full time. I should go full time. But for whatever reason, we bought a house and we started thinking about getting married ourselves and having children and the safe daytime job thing. And I, you know, I was getting promoted as well, so I. I never actually made that leap. [00:47:41] Speaker A: Yeah, it was, but it was right there. You could sort of see it, that it. If you wanted to, you could make it happen. But, yeah, you could. You could go either path. [00:47:50] Speaker B: Yeah. And running the. Oh, we had a couple of jobs at that time, I remember, for whatever good reasons didn't pay, you know, a couple of wedding jobs where, you know, you know, with your. You can't ask for a full payment upfront to book a wedding job. You know, it'd be nice to do that. But, you know, we were young and we were new and we had to learn along the way. So we had a couple of. And I said to Maria one day, I'm like, you know, I was around Christmas, I said, if we were running a company in a business, I think we just went broke. [00:48:22] Speaker A: Yeah. It reminds you of the risk of doing your own thing. And obviously, like you say, you could learn, and there's ways around that and sort of thing. But, you know, learning those experiences, if the, if the lesson is expensive, it could, like, say that that could be the moment where you go broke if. If the lesson is too. Too costly, too early on, you run out of money, you know. [00:48:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:44] Speaker A: Damn, that's. Hey, how did you guys meet? You and Maria? [00:48:50] Speaker B: Yeah. So Maria. Maria's background is Croatian. She got raised in Western Sydney in Fairfield, you know, a very traditional European way, but in. In Australia, and she was already working for star shots. When I came down and I remember like, you know, we, we met at a restaurant. Like, I hadn't actually started working there yet. When we all went out for a team dinner, I just moved down there and she was sort of sitting opposite me. And Marie is like a very friendly, down to earth, humble kind of person. So she was, she was nice enough to talk to me. Even though I could see just written all over her face. She didn't want to talk to me at all. Because you know why? When you've got all your friends here at dinner, there's this, you know, country boy that's just moved down from Queensland in, you know, because, you know, in Western Sydney, the European community, they, they dress well, they smell good, they wear jewelry. Even the men wear jewelry. The leather jackets and the slick hair and everything. And here I am, I have my, my best T shirt on with like, probably a stain on the shit and, you know, my jeans and everything. This country boy was just sitting in front of her. But she was nice enough to talk to me and she was always like, very, very kind like that. So she knew that I didn't have any friends, so she invited me out with her friends. You know, that's where this Queensland boy went out to the Marconi Club in Sydney. You know, just experiencing that European culture. I'd never seen anything like that before. And I didn't know anything about Croatia or, you know, I couldn't even point to it on a map. I didn't know anything about it. But, you know, I was really sort of. I felt welcomed into that community. And I, you know, I don't know, I just. My mother's actually Russian, so even though I was raised in an Australian way, you know, I guess I was kind of used to having a European influence around me. So it just kind of all made sense. And just, you know, slowly but surely I chipped away at her and we started dating. [00:50:41] Speaker A: That's awesome. Because I'd wondered, I'm like, did you meet through photography or did you. Did one of you sort of bring the other into it or whatever? But no. So she was working as a photographer or as an assistant or. [00:50:55] Speaker B: Yes, we were working at Star Shots in Penrith. [00:50:59] Speaker A: Yep. [00:50:59] Speaker B: Back then. [00:51:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:01] Speaker A: And that was her role. There was a photographer or an assistant of some sort or something and. [00:51:07] Speaker B: Photographer. [00:51:08] Speaker A: Photographer. Both photographers. Okay. [00:51:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And I just always remember, like, I had my way of doing things and she had her way of doing things. And I'd try and tell her, you know what, you could do that this way to Be better. And even back in the very first conversations, I learned that, you know, what Marie's not. She does her own thing, her own way, and that's what she likes doing. And even to this day, working as photographers, you know, we kind of have that respect. You know, we don't sort of tell each other too much about what to do. And the system works. [00:51:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. It's so amazing that you guys were both photographers before you met. That's. And now, you know, all these years later, running a business together. It's. That's awesome. Very cool. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Yeah, there were good times back in. Back in Sydney when we were all young and full of hope and dreams and aspirations and things. [00:51:55] Speaker A: So that's. It sounds like it. And it's. It's a world that, you know, I don't know how. How much of that world existed when I sort of got into photography, I got into photography not. Not super early. You know, I started on digital. You know, like, my first camera was a. My first real camera was a 60D. So, you know, by the time that camera come out, like, what did studios like that really. Were there even jobs at studios like that anymore or had all of that kind of started to fall away? I know the. In my town here in Bendigo, you know, there was. There was always this kind of one main studio, one photographer called Richard Gibbs and. And he was, you know, he was essentially a household name in Bendigo. Everyone knew he was the photographer. Like, he was the. There was many photographers around, but he was the one that everyone knew of and he had a studio and did all that. It was a great photographer. But then slowly as things evolved into. Into digital and, and I think the barrier of entry lowered, that kind of fell away, it seems anyway. You know, even just having a physical space now is. Is quite unique amongst. In the photography world to actually have a place of business as opposed to just working from home. So, yeah, it's. It's definitely a different world. [00:53:27] Speaker B: I remember that digital revolution taking over. I was a sales clerk. I used to key the orders for Cannon Australia between Brisbane and Perth, Queensland and Western Australia. And I actually remember seeing the way the orders used to go for some of my biggest customers. You know, I was still keying orders for $100,000 worth of film cameras, you know, and slowly over the course of 12 months, that changed to digital cameras. And film cameras, they died so fast. I don't think anybody saw how quick that was going to die. Yeah, yeah, my first cameras, I. I bought 220DS. They were my first. [00:54:03] Speaker A: Okay. Yep. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's, I mean the industry's gone through a lot of change in the last few decades, but that, that change from film to digital is huge. You know, like the change from DSLR to mirrorless. Yeah, game changer in a small way in terms of like the way the camera operates and what's possible now with, with autofocus and, and video and stuff. But, but compared to literally like the entire production side of things changing, that, that was massive. [00:54:40] Speaker B: It was huge. And like your, your Richard Gibbs, you know, back then our local photographer was like a, a miracle worker, was there was magic involved in the light metering and the film. You know, it was like that, the dark magic of processing film and printing in a dark room and things like that. You know, it was a genuine profession, you know, where you had to have a certain, certain skills to be able to do it and the average person couldn't do it. But when digital took over, the beauty of digital was that everybody could do it. [00:55:12] Speaker A: Instant gratification too for like, for learning. You know, you can see, you're like, oh, that worked better straight away, not, not days later than you see it and you go, oh, that did, that didn't work. I'll have to try again. [00:55:24] Speaker B: The magic died though, didn't it? Like the photographer who put on the show with his light meter and you know, all these different things in his camera and tripod and his winding on his medium format film and the way it pressed in dark room, that all kind of, that magic sort of disappeared from the business. [00:55:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it definitely did. It's, it's. Where do you see where, where it's going from here? Can you, you know, having, having such a, so much sort of history and seeing all that change. Can you, can you see anything coming or is it just sort of more of the same, like better cameras that are easier to use and, and well, faster. [00:56:06] Speaker B: The way I look at it is the way that the world consumes imagery. [00:56:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:11] Speaker B: And you know, we consume imagery. It's a hungry base and everybody needs it. You need to feed your social media channels, for example. You know, every company has to, has to feed this beast and it's in, what do you say? Insatiable. You can't give it enough imagery and you know, you really need to be doing moving as well as still. So now as well. So I, I do see a future for photography, to be honest. I actually see the industry growing. You know, you just look at YouTube, we can all produce Videos now that people want to watch. Like I look at my, my 17 year old son, he'd rather sit down and watch YouTube all day than watching commercial television. Yeah, you know, we, we want to see from these everyday Joes doing their podcasts and their videos and everything like that rather than the Hollywood citizen stars or there's a, there's a balance for it, but it's, it's just opened the door to be able to, you know, create just. You can create incredible world class content from your, your backyard. [00:57:07] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. I guess. Well then though, where does that leave, where does that leave photography itself? You know, like high end prints and things. I see. I mean you've got a printer just next to you, I think. What is that a Canon? Oh yeah. So where does that leave the printed image? Do you, what is that printer for? Do you sell prints? Is it mainly for clients and that kind of thing like the family clients that Maria works with or do you also sell any, I guess art or fine art style work? [00:57:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't sell a lot of. To be honest, I don't sell any fine art style work. It's not something that I've, I haven't sort of opened up that genies bottle just yet because I, I don't even know where to start. I'm just kind of happy shooting that, that landscape stuff at the moment. But some of Maria's work that we print as well. Yeah. From homes. I don't really use it as much as I would have liked to. So when I bought it I had an idea of what I was going to do. Kind of like the, the pet photography. [00:58:11] Speaker A: Yes. [00:58:12] Speaker B: But to be honest, I'd actually like to do a lot more. But to create your own custom color profiles on a large format printer properly, it's actually like you need some decent equipment to do it. And I've only got the consumer level gear throughout my own ICC profiles. So I guess I'm saving for a really decent quality color spectrometer and those sorts of things that will help me create the color profiles. The ones I guess after a while you learn that it's no good just downloading the ones from the manufacturer. You have to have your own. [00:58:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's something though. There are places that do custom ICC profiles. Is that something you can outsource or is that you don't want to go that direction or you just like you want to learn to do it yourself and have that ability as more of a technical challenge? [00:59:04] Speaker B: You answered the question there. Like I pride myself on learning Color management. I think as if you want to be a professional for photographer, you have to, you have to learn your color management and you just can't outsource color management. You have to do it yourself. But I have recently considered defeating. I've reached out to Les Walkling to help me with a custom color profile for the printer. Yeah, I mean I can, I can make it work and I can do it like within probably 95% as good as anybody could make it work. [00:59:36] Speaker A: Yep. [00:59:37] Speaker B: But that's not good enough. [00:59:38] Speaker A: Yeah, you want it, you want it to be perfect, it has to be better. [00:59:42] Speaker B: I mean this printer is capable of more and yeah, I'll get there. It's work in progress. [00:59:49] Speaker A: Let's just say that Investing in an EPSON 3880 in, in sort of the early days of my photography business and then what became mine and Jim's wedding photography business, which is funnily enough called Justin and Jim photography is one of the things, it's brought me a lot of pain and frustration which I'm sure you can sympathize with. But learning to print, learning to manage color beyond the monitor and, and learning what things but just being able to print work and, and then what we did was we, we printed, you know, every wedding client got at least sort of 12 to 15 A4 size prints. Which I find A4 is, is a nice, you know, six by fours. Yeah. Kind of, they kind of look like whatever color management's not that important because they're so small. It's sort of like whereas handing people you know, 1584 size prints with their finished wedding and the USB and everything, they were big enough that you can really see the quality of the photo at least or starting to, to be able to appreciate the level of quality. But it also meant that we were constantly sort of refining our editing process based on how the prints were turning out as well. You know, making sure that what we're seeing on screen was coming out on print. Everything's working. It was sort of another layer of are we getting this right? You know, because we were, we're kind of doing it. You know, there was ended up being two of us but we're still kind of lone wolves. Like other than going to one one print workshop which is super valuable, trying to remember who it was with. I think it was a KL1 but I can't remember who ran it. It's just like a one day basics of color management and printing workshop. There's still stuff that I all the time remember from that Workshop. That was the first time someone taught me what a black point was. And, and that's like the foundation of like every time I edit a photo on Lightroom is like, where am I setting my black point? [01:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:00] Speaker A: Like, I didn't even know that was a thing until I went. Went to a print. I went to a print workshop to try and get my printer to work better so I didn't throw it through the window and ended up learning, end up learning heaps of stuff about just, just photography in general and how it translates to whatever your final medium is. Yeah. [01:02:20] Speaker B: When we first started out, we didn't know anything about color management. You know, but, you know, with where you're at now, where. With where I am now, imagine not knowing the difference between Adobe RGB and srgb. Yeah. Or not understanding that you know, what things are digital. So your camera's going to interpret color and guess the way that you perceive that color and replay it for you in a faithful way. And Canon does that. Nikon does that. Everybody does that. And guess who else does that? My Apple MacBook Pro does that. Adobe does that. So when you've got three or four different processes where they're interpreting and reinterpreting color based on what it thinks that you can see, it's a mugs game. Unless you sort of take a bit more of a precise management approach to your color. [01:03:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And at least, at least take steps. I mean, you don't have this because there is, like I say, there's so many. If you go through that trail, there's so many things going on. Was kind of like I used to be. I wouldn't call myself a sound engineer. I did a little bit of sound engineering when I, in the early days, when I was in a band, used to do recordings and stuff like that. Had a little sort of home studio set up and it was like, I think, you know, listening to a finished mix on as many different sound systems, speakers, cars, headphones as possible because it was going through so many different processes, the final thing could be interpreted. It's almost like, you know, it can look different on a phone to. On a laptop, to a calibrated monitor, to you because. And you may not even realize, like you say, that on one of it it's been displayed in a different. A different profile to another one and. And that those colors just simply aren't available on this screen versus that screen or, or whatever. Yeah, it's. It's all. It's a Pandora's box, really. Because even now, like, I've learned a lot about it and it's still baffling, you know. [01:04:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Unless, unless you're at that level, you know, of a les walking, there is still so much to learn. You never just seem to quite get to the bottom of that barrel. Every time you sort of think you get there, it just opens up another barrel at the end of it. [01:04:37] Speaker A: Yeah. But it is fun. And I do, I do recommend, you know, even if you don't buy a large printer, I feel like people, more people if they don't print their work, could get some joy out of having a printer at home, you know, and, and printing regularly, even just, just for, just to see, you know, put it in a cheap frame and put it up around your house. [01:04:58] Speaker B: But what is the joy of photography? Like, why do we do it? On one side it's to keep creative fire burning. But if you don't print your work, you know, it's just like a. For me, that's the whole reason why we, why we shoot, because we, we can imagine one of our images one day being good enough to frame and put on a wall. [01:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:17] Speaker B: It's not 100 likes on Instagram that you live for. It's the, it's the print. [01:05:21] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. But, but it is, you know, it's expensive either outsourcing your printing or buying a printer for at home. And then there is always that pain of buying a printer at home. And then the nozzles clog and it starts printing. For some reason it's printing an A3, but you've got A4 paper in there and a corner of the picture comes out and the rest of it's wide or whatever. I don't know the amount of times I've wanted to jump on that printer, but it, yeah, there's nothing better than seeing, seeing it printed out when it actually works perfectly. [01:05:53] Speaker B: Exactly, Exactly. Couldn't agree more. [01:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, it's very cool. Very cool. So you're, you're still shooting with Canon now your current, current camera kit. I was just gonna ask like, what, what does your kit look like these days? [01:06:12] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. So I'm shooting EOS R5 and an R6. So I've got my high megapixel camera and then what I call my low light monster. Because your event photography requires that. I guess when I left Canon, you know, the opportunity was there to sort of switch brands and I sort of briefly sort of toyed with that idea. The truth was, is the only other brand I probably would switch to would be the Nikon system. Which I saw what they were doing with their new mirrorless cameras and I thought they looked very, very good. But in, in the end, I mean, you just don't switch. I guess Canon's in my DNA now and my blood is. It bleeds blades Canon red I just honestly couldn't. When I realized that I was just mucking around thinking I could. Then, then I sort of jumped into the R5 and you know, I'm still sort of thinking what my next camera looks like, but I don't think, think that the camera that I need that will be better than what I've got doesn't exist yet. I think I'd like an R3 but the megapixels aren't high enough. You know, the R6 with a grip is, you know, it's a lot cheaper than an R3. I would love doing it. [01:07:22] Speaker A: Have you, have you held an R3 for long periods of time, do you find? Because this, that was the thing that I, I switched back to canon when the R5 come out because we, we actually made some limited edition straps for the launch, which was pretty cool. Canon, Canon Australia worked with us on that, which was, was really, really cool of them. And I was like, all right, yeah, it was, it was, it was a great, a great project. And they were, they were really good to work with considering how big, you know, how big that company is and how small we are. And so in my head, as soon as that was kind of happening, as soon as they gave us the go ahead, I was like, all right, well, I'm switching to mirrorless. Anyway. I was on Nikon at the time and I'd had a 1 Nikon mirrorless of Z6, but I was sort of like, I still had most of my gear in the DSLR world, so I was switching to mirrorless at some point. I was like, well, if these guys are going to do this, then I'm going back to Canon and buying a full kit. And, but, and I thought it would be an A gripped R5, but I got the grip and I hate it. It's, it's, you know, the feeling of a pro body that just sits perfectly like in your hand and it's smooth and stuff. The R5 R6 grip has this kind of chunky, square feel about it where it doesn't feel like it's integrated with the, the camera design. And I never ended up using it. I ended up selling it recently when I, after I got the R3 and it was basically brand new. I just, Yeah, I don't Know, it just didn't fit my hand very well. Do you find that with the R6 that it feels comfortable or. [01:09:06] Speaker B: I guess I never really thought about it. I just used it. But I've recently noticed I've stopped using it because I just carry a second battery in my pocket. [01:09:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's what I ended up doing. Just carrying more batteries. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:09:20] Speaker B: I do like the R3, but I think for me to sort of jump up in that price point, I need more megapixels. Yeah, it's not quite enough. I mean, you go from a 5D Mark IV with 30 megapixels. The. The R6. I don't. I can't quote pics and specs anymore like I used to because I don't work for the brand. But I think the R6 is only 20 megapixels. The R5 is 45. And what's the R3? I think that's 24. [01:09:45] Speaker A: 24. And the new. The R6 Mark II I think is 24 as well. Maybe. [01:09:51] Speaker B: I think another three with 30 megapixels would be a very sweet spot for me. But people would argue the premium amount of pixels on a 35 mil sensors. 24. But, you know, if you've used the R5, the. You know, when you nail the exposures, it's. It's beautiful. Like, the details, sunny. [01:10:11] Speaker A: It's a beautiful image. But yeah, the ergonomics of the R3 and the speed of it is definitely a step ahead. The. The back button has like an optical. Like a sensor for your thumb. So you like. Yeah, you slide it around on the back button, focus button, or whatever, and it. And it tracks your autofocus. It's amazing. That is. That is the best feature on that camera. [01:10:39] Speaker B: Do you use the eye detect or you switch it off? [01:10:41] Speaker A: You know what? I. I never really used it much. And over the last week, I've been playing around with it again because. And I also. I just got another lens. I can tell you about that too, to see, because I don't know whether you've got one and whether you love it, but I started playing with it. It's actually really, really accurate. The eye. The eye tracking autofocus. Not. Not because it gets confused with eye autofocus, like, as in it focus on the subject's eye. But you're. You're obviously talking about the fact that the AF point tracks where my eye is looking on the screen, and it's really, really accurate. And I'm. I'm gonna test it out. I Haven't actually done much with sports because we do a lot of mountain bike. I do a lot of mountain bike stuff and I shoot everything wide open always. And they come through when we set something up. Usually they're coming say around a corner, out from some trees or whatever and you've got to grab focus on them really, really fast. And I sort of always figure it's just safer just for me to put the AF point where I know that the, the ride is going to enter my image so that it's ready to, to focus straight on them. And I usually just do it with that thing on the back, that thumb thing, which I find really fast to be able to just slide my thumb around and it just moves around on the screen at the same speed as my thumb. So it's really good. But yeah, I'm going to test the eye. I've got to shoot next week for mountain biking and I'm going to leave it on eye tracking the whole time and just see how it goes. [01:12:13] Speaker B: But yeah, that's a big, it's a big call where you make that leap and change the way that you shoot because of the technology in the camera. My first film camera, well, my professional camera was the EOS 3 that had 45 points of eye focused autofocus. And so when the R3 came out, I never want, I always wondered why they never came out with another one. Maybe it was because something about like shining lasers into people's retinas, I don't know. But then again, when the EOS3 came out, the R3 came out, I'm like, oh, this is good. You know, I could get into this, but I haven't yet. I didn't jump into it. [01:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah. So you haven't spent enough time with an R3 to test out some features like that and see, see what you think. [01:12:57] Speaker B: Not in the field professionally yet. No. Yeah, I mean, yeah, to switch those, those technologies. Even if, you know, if you're out photographing birds in the wild just to switch on the animal eye detect, it takes a lot to overwrite the way you've been shooting things in the past and embrace new technology. So same thing with the R3. Like I'd probably still shoot like I'm shooting with an R5 until I feel confident enough to sort of activate some of those extra features. [01:13:22] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, I think it's one of those things I, as soon as I get comfortable with the subject that I'm shooting, as in I feel confident that going into the shoot I feel very Confident with what I'm doing. I start to get bored and I start changing things. So I'll use lenses that you're not supposed to use or. Yeah, like I tried different autofocus modes and stuff like that while I'm out shooting and. And test stuff out when it's. When I'm nervous about the shoot. It's like I want everything to be my default. I know it, you know, could do this with my eyes closed kind of settings because I'm. I'm just focused on trying to do the job. [01:14:06] Speaker B: It's not time to be experimental. It's time to bring your A game. [01:14:09] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And do the work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A couple of comments coming through. Matt says it's hard to beat the ruggedness of Canon. To be fair, I agree. And the R3 is certainly rugged. I've had it in the rain a few times but although it has let me down the. The photo video switch is not weather sealed properly. Something goes on there every time it rains. I can't. Yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty disappointed in that actually. I should. I should talk to the. Kenny. You know what's crazy? I'm not even a CPS member. [01:14:41] Speaker B: We can fix that. [01:14:42] Speaker A: I should probably get on there. You know people. [01:14:49] Speaker B: We still know people. [01:14:50] Speaker A: We still know people. But yeah. I've been meaning to get in touch with someone at CPS and talk to them about that. Whether that switch. Is it just a weak point or is it maybe something wrong with my camera specifically. But I can. It happened once and then it dried out. When it dries out it's fine again. But when it's wet, the photo video like mechanical switch which on the R3 is. It's surrounding the record button. It's like a. Yeah. Little mechanical toggle. And yeah it just stops working completely. So you get stuck in a mode and I did. [01:15:20] Speaker B: Now you need to. Next time you're in Melbourne or Sydney. I know Bendigo, sort of. [01:15:24] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the hard Melbourne. [01:15:26] Speaker B: But at the same time you can't. It's five years warranty on it if you bought it in Australia. And that would be very easy to know because you know that whatever is happening there is not good. And over long term it's not going to fix itself. It's going to get worse. [01:15:42] Speaker A: That's a good point. Yeah, it's probably a good point. Obviously that means water is going in which is probably not ideal. Yeah. [01:15:53] Speaker B: Let'S avoid that. But at the same time without sort of advertising CPS too strongly. Like if you're a member, you could bring it in there and while it's getting repaired, they will loan you another camera. Well, you know, so you can keep out shooting, which is the benefit of cps. It's Canon's way of knowing you as a professional rather than just a serial number. [01:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I should, I actually went to do it a little while ago and got distracted because it's, it's a bit of a mission to sign up for it and I think it, it costs money now, which the Nikon one never cost. Cost money. But it's also, you know, at the level of gear that it is, it's not much money. You know, I think it's a hundred and something dollars a year or whatever. So it's not like it's hugely expensive. But yeah, I remember the nick. NPS was never, there was never a fee, but they might have changed that these days as well. I don't know how it works. [01:16:42] Speaker B: Yeah, Jay would probably be better at answering that question, but I, I agree that it would be better if there wasn't a fee. Like it seems like token money for Canon Australia. [01:16:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I, I wonder whether it's just a thing, though, so that it's like, hey, do, do you really want this service? Like, you know, maybe they're kind of like, you know, anyone that's doing this professionally won't mind paying this so that we're only going to get people that are serious. I don't know. Or does it help cover some of their costs? [01:17:09] Speaker B: No, I, I, I think you're right. I think, I think it's just so that the people who seriously need the service to keep them out shooting in the field. I think it's a way sort of, you know, whittling down people that aren't quite as serious about needing that service. Yeah, they know for sure. [01:17:30] Speaker A: I'm putting that on my list to do join CPS and get them to sort out my R3. All right, so you're shooting with the R5 and the R6 version one. What lenses do you use? What have you got? What, what kit are you running? [01:17:46] Speaker B: I'm a big fan of the three amigos, as we used to say. That's the 15 to 35, the 24 to 70 and the 70 202.8 series lenses. Yeah, I've got a few other bits and pieces on 85mm 1.2. I bought a 300mil 2.8, but that's the LDF series. I couldn't get the new rf. It's a bit expensive. For me? [01:18:06] Speaker A: Yep. [01:18:07] Speaker B: What else have I got? They're the lenses I use. I've got a few other bits and pieces. I've got a 35 mil and 100 mil macro and I don't really use them. [01:18:20] Speaker A: The RF mount. [01:18:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:22] Speaker A: Ones. Yeah. But you don't, don't use them very often. [01:18:24] Speaker B: Not very much. I was lucky enough to actually get a Samyang RF series lens before they pull them up the market. [01:18:31] Speaker A: Yeah. What, the 14 mil or the 40 mil? [01:18:34] Speaker B: 2.8. [01:18:35] Speaker A: Yeah, 2.8. Yeah. [01:18:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:36] Speaker A: You see them pop up, used every now and then and. Yeah. People jump on them pretty quick. [01:18:42] Speaker B: Do they? Yeah. I, I don't know. Like the. Using that Instead of the RF15 to 35, 2.8, you know, for me I just end up using the 15 to 35. It's the versatility. [01:18:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:53] Speaker B: And then I find I don't really need much else. I use the 85 mil sometimes for portraits and particularly this speaking shots. If there's a speech or something to say, stand off the subject a bit and still use. Get a bit of depth of field. Compression and shallow depth of field as well. [01:19:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:06] Speaker B: Particularly at low light events. But I really don't need anything outside of that 15 to 200 mil focal length range. [01:19:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Did you try the 28 to 70 F2? [01:19:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I tried it. Like, I, I feel like firstly, I think Canon made that lens to show the world what they could do. [01:19:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:29] Speaker B: Now this new RF range or the RF sensor or the R sensor, we can make a lens like this. If we can do this in our first range of RF lenses, what else do you think that we can do? [01:19:41] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. [01:19:42] Speaker B: I thought it was a show off lens. People bought it. I don't mean to offend people that because I know people use it very well, but there's one there. Are you offended, Justin? [01:19:54] Speaker A: I am not offended. I don't mind at all. It's. It's. Yeah, yeah, it's. It's a useful lens. I loved it. It's. It's. If I was shooting weddings all the time, I would most likely use it a lot. It's very like. It's very fast and flexible. It is heavy. Balance is reasonably well on the R3, but it's still pretty front heavy. I'm trying to figure out how to do like a, A video to show the difference in very similarly weighted lenses on the camera. But how much extra, like wrist stress it being front heavy puts you under, you know, like. Anyway, so that kind of starts. Yeah, it starts to bug me because it is, it is front heavy. It's, it's, it's a beast of a lens. But, you know, being able to have a, a 28 mil and, and then a 70 mil just by twisting is pretty cool. And I've shot, yeah, full wedding days with it. I've shot sports with it. [01:20:56] Speaker B: When you've got to carry all that kid around with you on your back, weight becomes an issue as you get older as well. Knees don't work so good. The back doesn't work so good, you know? [01:21:04] Speaker A: Yep. [01:21:05] Speaker B: If you're traveling, would you, would it be the first lens you choose? It's, that's what I'm thinking. Like, if it's too heavy to carry, it's not fun anymore. And if it's not fun, I don't want to do it. [01:21:14] Speaker A: That's exactly right. And, and it's sort of. And what's, I mean, obviously this is a special lens, so I'm not, I'm. It has to be this weight and that doesn't bother me because it's a 28 to 70 F2. So it's not like I think it should have been lighter. It is what it is, but it's. Yeah. Is it, is it something. It's not something I'm ever going to take traveling. It's just too heavy and attracts too much attention because it's just enormous. And yeah, it's, it's, it really is sort of a, a working lens for someone that's happy to, to handle the weight of it all day. But. So what I've recently done is I bought, I bought a 512 from Sun Studios last week and, and I'm pretty sure only one of these is staying. I just have. It's, it's. I haven't decided how I'm going to decide, but yeah, the 50 is heavy too, man. For a 50. It's a heavy. It's 950 grams. Like it's the same weight as a 20, a stabilized 2470. Pretty much. It's, it's a heavy lens, but it's pretty special. And I, I sort of talked myself into the fact that there's not much difference between F2 and like F 1.4, F 1.2, but there he is. [01:22:36] Speaker B: So, yeah, there, there is nowhere to hide. [01:22:40] Speaker A: No, no, it is what it is. [01:22:41] Speaker B: At the same time, apologies to the Olympus users out there, but I don't think the Olympus pen, really, you know, you've got that beautiful size of a camera, but the sensor's too small to really be able to use in low light situations. And I find in my bird photography events that it, you know, it doesn't really keep up with tracking birds in flight. It's not quite fast enough. So I think the holy grail of smaller cameras with a full frame, potentially, I don't know whether it's actually possible to do it, but I think that holy grail between weight and performance is still out there to be. To be had by somebody. [01:23:16] Speaker A: Yeah, there's definitely. I don't know. Yeah, there's something there. I mean, have you ever shot with a Leica Q2 or any. Have you ever had your hands on those, those full frame? [01:23:30] Speaker B: No. I know the guys at Leica there, interestingly enough. I'm actually trying to source an M6 for a friend at the moment. [01:23:39] Speaker A: Oh, nice. Very cool. [01:23:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I would. But I guess the thing is, like, if you try a decent. A nice Leica camera, what are the chances of you actually switching over? [01:23:51] Speaker A: That's the thing. Yeah. No, not switching. If it was. And it would be a huge investment for me to buy, I think, one of those Leicas, the Q2 and the Q3 that's hopefully getting launched this week. They're like 10. They're 10 grand, you know, which is insane. Although that is a full frame camera and lens because they've got a 28 mil 1.7 sort of built into that body. It's a fixed lens and, and that's what I'm missing with Canon is they don't have 28. Used to be my favorite focal length with Nikon. The 28 1.4 was amazing and Canon just doesn't have anything 28. There's rumors they're about to release a 28 2.8, which doesn't really excite me. So. Yeah, it would be. Unfortunately it would. If I did invest in it would be an additional camera, which is kind of crazy. I'd probably sell one. Yeah. I don't know. [01:24:45] Speaker B: The bug there I've got with Canon is that they've never really released a great Astro lens. [01:24:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep, yep. And you've got the likes of Nikon and Sony with some pretty cool stuff. Sony particularly their lens range now is. Is pretty robust. [01:25:06] Speaker B: I'd really like that to, to be a thing. A good Astro lens from Canon. [01:25:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:11] Speaker B: I don't know what's, what's possible, but shooting astro with my 15 mil at 2.8. Okay. It's good. Could be better. [01:25:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I actually want to have a look at Some of the stuff you got a very cool Astro shot, New Zealand. I'm going to pull it up. But before I do, some comments as well from Grant. Who? He's a friend of mine. He comes on a podcast every week. We do like a weekly kind of news show and stuff. A heap of comments from Grant. Yeah. Get a liker. He just recently got an R5 and he doesn't think he'll ever change brands again, but I'm sure in a year or two we'll be talking about it and I think. I don't know what this was in relation to. Don't tell me that. Probably something to do with a Leica. [01:26:00] Speaker B: Maybe he shoots omd. He might. He might. [01:26:02] Speaker A: No, no, he doesn't. He doesn't. He just got. Yeah, just got an R5 and a 2470 and he's loving it. Switched from his Nikon DSLR gear and. Yeah, really, really loving it. Let me see if I can find the shot that you got in New Zealand, because it was when I saw that, I was like, wow. [01:26:20] Speaker B: Well, you're looking at that. Okay. Hey, Kev, have you ever tried the new Olympus? I would love to try it. I would love to be convinced that I'm wrong because that's one thing about me. People know me. Like, I actually love a good debate. I love to be argued with and I love to actually be convinced that I'm wrong. It's actually a fun thing to do and if somebody can show me that I am, I will then adopt that as my own, you know, philosophy. [01:26:52] Speaker A: Yep, yep. You're not. You're not locked into to thinking one way, but you also like to have a good debate about it rather than just accepting someone else's being correct. [01:27:03] Speaker B: You know, I think it's always boring talking to somebody who just won't. Won't change their mind about things, you know? [01:27:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:10] Speaker B: It's good to have that sort of, you know, solid debate where you can change people's opinions and take things on board. [01:27:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure. [01:27:19] Speaker B: And I know Kev's a very technical photographer, very intelligent man. [01:27:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And so I assume he's. He's shooting with Olympus. Oh, yeah. By the sounds of it. I'll give you a play next time we meet up. [01:27:32] Speaker B: Sounds great. [01:27:33] Speaker A: You'll be able to let us know how it goes. [01:27:37] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Let's do a thing. [01:27:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:40] Speaker B: Might be one for Photogenius. [01:27:43] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. [01:27:46] Speaker B: Why the OMD does live. So the OM system does live up to expectations. [01:27:51] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [01:27:52] Speaker B: Or not. [01:27:53] Speaker A: Or not. Maybe on Astro. So this shot which I really want you to talk us through the, the New Zealand trip that you recently went on, but this was, this was one of the standout shots from that trip that I saw. What, what happened on this night? [01:28:18] Speaker B: Oh, this was very exciting. Like we, look, we, we did our New Zealand trip, it was three years in the making because we had to postpone it twice due to Covid, you know, and in the trip, like it was sold out three times over. But you know, as people drop out for good reasons, you know, they can't make it anymore, they're doing something else. And you know, we refunded their tickets. The people that sort of held strong and stayed loyal. I was really proud and happy that people, people did that and put their faith in myself and my travel agent Georgina. So when we actually came down there, we sort of had the itinerary, but we always said what would happen if we get an Aurora. Why don't, I'm a big believer in let's bring the right equipment, we'll plan it as best we can and we'll try and be at the right time and hopefully a little bit of luck or a little bit of magic will happen and we'll be there at the right time, at the right place with the right equipment to be able to, to let this magic happen. And we all downloaded all the apps and we subscribed to the Facebook pages that talk about the Auroras and things like that. And you know, it comes up to the. It was the Monday night, so it's the Monday and everyone's saying that, you know what, the conditions are really good. In fact, the conditions are so good that, you know, we could even be looking at a once in a 10 year event. You know, we're looking at possibly a level 7 or 8 Aurora event which is, you know, doesn't really happen. And we're madly checking the maps, we're checking the directions that things are, you know, the Aurora's in the south, isn't it? Most of us have never seen one before. [01:30:00] Speaker A: Yeah, this isn't a normal. You don't normally go chasing Aurora photography on a regular basis. Kind of tricky. Tricky From Brisbane. [01:30:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I'm a Queenslander. Yeah. So I know about them, I've seen them around. I didn't really know much so I sort of madly learned about it because I guess when you're hosting the photographic tour, you're the expert and the truth is that I'm not always the expert, but I'll try, I'll do my best. So anyway, it was the Monday night and we worked out, okay, so we're gonna be at the Church of the Good shepherd. And guess what? The moon sets at 6:15pm or something, which was. And what moon there was. It was actually like there was no moon at all anyway, so it wasn't going to affect the image. The darkest part of the night was going to be at 9:30pm and you know, this direction is where the, you know, the south is. And then we started realizing that, you know what, the Milky Way is also going to be there at this time. It's the darkest night of the year. And, you know, why don't, you know, let's, let's just go down to the Church of the Good shepherd and we'll see what happens. It was always part of the plan, but the plan was to also drop everything and make a V line to the best possible location. We actually, we drove our bus around and we tried to work out where the highest point was. And there was some night sky, like level five night sky areas. And around that part of New Zealand that they were all shut. They all shut at 5pm I'm like, well, kind of hard to use the night skies if the observatory close, you know, when it gets dark. So anyway, we thought there is one really famous location here that everybody knows, and that's the Church of the Good Shepherd. So we were there with probably another 100 photographers and the temperature was really. Yes, yes. [01:31:50] Speaker A: I was picturing it and I'm like, wow, it's just you and how many people were traveling on this, this, this tour with you? [01:31:56] Speaker B: We had 16 on my tour and we were all, okay, but, you know, you've got to like just calling a spade a spade. I'm not judging anybody for how, you know, their level of photography or how they behave, but when you've got a hundred people there with whether they're iPhones or head torches and the amount of light that was spraying around was just incredible, you know. And look, it's going to sound funny and I apologize if it sounds this way, but, you know, when you're a rookie photographer and you don't really know what you're doing, you tend to sort of, you bump everybody's tripod, you sort of swing bags into things, you turn your head to a trunk because you don't know how to focus the camera, you know, or your exposures. You're just getting nothing in the shot. And probably a good half of the 100 people there were like that. So, you know, probably out of every 10 shots I've got nine would be completely red or white from people's head torches spraying everywhere. And then you've got that one person who does know what they're doing and they're like, bugger everybody else. I'm gonna do some light painting. [01:33:00] Speaker A: Oh, no. [01:33:02] Speaker B: Like everybody. [01:33:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. [01:33:05] Speaker B: Yeah, look, it was. It was a strange night, but everyone was very excited and we were there for the right reasons. There was a few, you know, turn your head torch off. Yeah, mostly. But by the time it was like, you know, midnight, everyone was gone. [01:33:20] Speaker A: Yep, yep. They weren't out there for the long haul. [01:33:24] Speaker B: No, no, they were there. Probably some people were there to have a selfie in front of it. But if you've seen the aurora, they're not very bright. So the camera sort of brings out a lot of the detail that you can't see to your naked eye. So, you know, a lot of people having a pretty frustrating time, but, you know, when they're trying to sort of take their selfie, their little flashes on their phones go off as well. Yeah, it was a beautiful and brilliant and frustrating night. [01:33:50] Speaker A: What, what time of the night were you able to capture this? [01:33:55] Speaker B: I'd say that's probably about 9:30. No, probably at 10 o'. Clock. [01:33:59] Speaker A: Right. In the mix of the 100 people. Yeah, yeah. [01:34:02] Speaker B: It's a pano stitch as well. And going through. Because you, you work out straight away. I mean, if you're an expert, experienced Aurora photographer, you know that a super long exposure is not going to work. You're just going to get some mushy green and some mushy pinks and some stars that are actually moving. Because, you know, anything more than say, 20, 25 seconds, you start getting the star, star actually moving in the sky as well. So you need a faster shutter speed. And I'd probably say I'm at about 4 seconds with this exposure at, I'm guessing 65, 400 ISO. [01:34:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:37] Speaker B: Had to double protect my exposure. So, you know, the amount of noise that you get as well. But I have to say, the new lightroom Denoise. Oh my gosh. [01:34:45] Speaker A: It's pretty good, right? [01:34:47] Speaker B: It's very good. [01:34:48] Speaker A: It's very good. [01:34:50] Speaker B: So, okay, what saves this shot like that? That noise reduction in it is really brought this image to life. [01:34:57] Speaker A: So this is a stitch. Is the foreground and the sky any different exposures? Or did you have to do any work there because of head torches or anything like that? Or did this sort of a lucky capture that where no one was. Was ruining it? [01:35:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, I guess with a, with a pano stitch. It's, it's a, it's nine vertical panoramic shots. So there's no extra foreground that I've painted in or anything like that. This is, you know, this is all mostly in camera with nine images just in a panoramic, you know, left to right kind of situation. [01:35:30] Speaker A: What focal length was did you have the lens set to. [01:35:35] Speaker B: Off the top of my head, this would be 15 mil. [01:35:37] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. Pretty wide. [01:35:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I really needed to sort of, you know, tilt it in a way to get as much of the Milky Way as I could. [01:35:45] Speaker A: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. To be able to get both of those in the frame or in the multiple frames, you know, the final image, the Milky Way and the aurora is. Yeah, yeah. [01:35:56] Speaker B: And it's been, it's been lit up there from the lights coming from the little township of Lake Tekapo. So that's not artificial light, that's available light. You can sort of see on the right hand side. There's some brightness there that is probably actually a head torch. [01:36:14] Speaker A: Okay. [01:36:15] Speaker B: Doesn't take away from the shot, you know, sufficiently enough. I'd say it's actually somebody light painting. [01:36:28] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. [01:36:30] Speaker B: There is a bridge over there as well. But that, that is a. Another photographer light painting. But if you think about it, they're on the wrong side, aren't they? [01:36:39] Speaker A: Yes. I guess if they were just trying to do Milky Way behind the church. Don't know. [01:36:46] Speaker B: Must be. I mean, there's, there's a lake behind there. But for me, the money shot was, you know what, why don't we try and get the aurora on this side and the Milky Way galactic core on the other side and put the church in the middle. [01:36:58] Speaker A: Yeah, very cool. [01:36:59] Speaker B: But, you know, there is a. There is a large element of luck there. But like I said to all of the people that came in my trip, you know, there's luck involved here for sure. But you were here, you jumped on the plane, you got on the bus, you packed your equipment, you put your beanie on, you put your shoes on, you set your camera and tripod up, and you were here to see it. So, you know, there's an element of luck. But the fact that you did it versus somebody who's sitting back in a hotel room thinking, oh, it's a bit cold, I might just have a beer in my room and go to sleep. [01:37:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's. I saw a joke the other day. What was it? How many photographers does it take to change a light globe. And it was like six, one to change the globe and five to say, I could have changed that globe. And it's, it's kind of like that. It's like it would be easy to say, oh well, if I was there I could have taken that photo. And it's like, yeah, but you weren't there. Like, you have to be there. You've got to do the stuff. You gotta, you got, you gotta go. Yep, exactly. It's not just, ah, I know what settings to use, you know, you've got to actually go there and do it. [01:38:07] Speaker B: I can tell you that most people at camera clubs probably have a higher level of technical knowledge than I have. I mean, I'm not a slouch or anything, but you know, there's always going to be an Uncle Bob at the camera club that knows everything. But the difference is that, you know, when you see their work, they don't have that connection to their creativity. You know, whether they never had it or they lost it through the education process, you know, the fun is actually going out and having a go and, you know, imagining what the shot is going to look like and then having a go with your equipment. [01:38:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And also to be fair though, sometimes the fun for some people is just playing with the equipment, you know, or knowing about the equipment. And that's fine too, you know, like sometimes, you know, they just like cameras and that kind of thing. And that's totally cool. But, but yeah, like you say, it's, yeah, having a connection to an image you're trying to create. And that, that side of it is something I've been trying to focus more on lately rather than just can I do it or not do it? [01:39:09] Speaker B: That's what I teach. You know, over the years I've been teaching photography now probably for, I'd say 10 years teaching it and what. It's actually quite easy to talk about the numbers, you know, to sort of say, oh yeah, this is 1/4 of a second at, you know, 2.8, at 64. But it's the creative side that's difficult. Like I always try and say that photography is a creative pursuit if you think creatively. Like say, for example, what are you trying to do with the shutter speed? Oh, I want to get some water. Waterfall movement. Well, it's a shutter related question. So once you work out artistically what you're trying to achieve, then you can start putting the technical numbers behind it rather than thinking the other way around. Where. What's my exposure? Oh, it's a 200th second at 5.6 at 200 ISO. That's the boring stuff. [01:39:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:39:55] Speaker B: Creative stuff is the fun. [01:39:57] Speaker A: It's what you enjoy. [01:39:59] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. [01:40:01] Speaker A: Grant says that picture is sick. And Kev says Aurora chasing is a little addictive. I bet it is. I'm. I subscribe to all the groups but unfortunately I've still never really gone hard. Hard at chasing one down. I sometimes see when it's all going on, but it's a little bit of a drive for me to get anywhere that's gonna maybe. Although I saw someone got a shot from near Bendigo the other week. It might have been around. Yeah. Around when one of these times when it was really sort of displaying something like. So, yeah. Grant also says he wants to be at a workshop. [01:40:43] Speaker B: Well, I've got a couple coming up, which I'm sure I'll get a chance to give a myself a plug a bit later on. [01:40:49] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I do want to talk about that. Let's. Well, we'll talk and we'll talk more about New Zealand too. Like what? So this trip, many years in the making due to Covid and stuff. What, What, So you had 16 people. What was the plan? What did you do? How long was it? [01:41:05] Speaker B: Well, my tours. I know most photographers prefer to run their tours with very small groups and you know, maximum six people love a one on one time, that kind of thing. But I got influenced by Georgina Groen, who is my travel agent. Their Croatian background. So I started my international stuff running tours to Croatia because I was just absolutely astounded with how beautiful the country was, considering I knew nothing about it. And it kind of got me addicted to this idea that I want to show other people all this cool stuff. So Adriatic Adventures is the name of the travel company and Blazhenka is the owner and she regularly takes 80 people to Croatia at a time. [01:41:47] Speaker A: 8, 0. 80. [01:41:49] Speaker B: Yes. And she'd actually be in the 70s now and she still runs these tours with big tours. And so I've got this idea in my head that we do it like the way every other photographer does it. We have small groups and six people. And Georgina just said to me, well, why don't we bring 18 or 20? And that way yours and my accommodation is free and then we can pass that saving onto our customers. And I started thinking that, you know what the magic of Canon Collective was always this is a social experience. You know, we're going to make friends, we're going to have a good time. You know, it's just as important to go and have a nice dinner with a nice bottle of wine as it is to be at the top of the mountain at sunset. [01:42:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:42:35] Speaker B: So I just changed the way I thought about my tours and so my tours tend to be bigger groups now and 16, 18, 20 is kind of depending on the bus sizing and things like that is what I like to do. And you know, the photography is important, but it's not all about the photography. The social experience, quality of the food, the place we stay. I don't really want to hike to the top of the mountain, I want to catch the helicopter to the top of the mountain. So I attract, I attract an audience that kind of can relate to that. [01:43:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Hey, who, who doesn't want to catch a helicopter at the top of a mountain. [01:43:13] Speaker B: As well on the way? [01:43:14] Speaker A: Oh yeah. That's cool. That's cool. So is that, are they the kind of experiences you try to piece together is sort of things that maybe people wouldn't organize for themselves. Like, like a doors off helicopter flight or something like that or. [01:43:30] Speaker B: Well, I sort of, you know, I don't bring the really expensive tourist life. You know, there's a lot of like really famous photographers that will run a tour in New Zealand. $15,000. But that's not really where I'm at with things. I feel like mine are really good value. I don't think you could do a tour like mine by yourself for less than what I'm charging for it really. [01:43:52] Speaker A: So roughly what sort of, what sort of price is a tour like this? Like it doesn't have to be the exact amount and obviously things will change based on what year it is and all that sort of stuff. But what sort of price are they? [01:44:05] Speaker B: Yeah, well this one here, if you come in the 2024 is about $7,000. [01:44:10] Speaker A: And how long is that 2024 trip? [01:44:13] Speaker B: 10 nights. So 10 nights, it includes, you know, your, all of your accommodation. Normally we try and stay five star unless we want the hotel that becomes like a, actually a location in itself. So we can, you know, walk to the Church of the Good shepherd or something. [01:44:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:44:30] Speaker B: Which having said that it was still five star anyway there, but you know, and we include the helicopter flights, we include the experiences. Yeah, all of that stuff. The four wheel drive trips, you know, we went and saw the penguin colonies and so there's sort of something happening every day that is included in the price at all. So when you sort of work out, you know, 10 days over $7,000, you know, that's $700 a day, including five star accommodation, breakfast. There's some dinners included as well. About. Probably about five or six dinners as well. [01:45:01] Speaker A: Really? Okay, so some food as well is included. [01:45:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. Yep. No alcohol, but yeah. And I think that if I was to put. You can see there's a good combination there of, you know, male and female. But if I sort of talked about my stereotype customer, I seem to get like, you know, females in their 50s and 60s and for whatever reason they want to travel by themselves, but they can't do it by themselves, you know, because it's not safe. They want to be with the group. [01:45:31] Speaker A: I was gonna say it's, it's not even that sometimes it's just the joy of, you know, solo travel versus traveling with a group of, of people is very different. So it may not even be that they can't. It's just that one. Why would they want to go on a solo trip, you know, eating by yourself every night and that kind of thing where. Whereas you can be on a, you know, I actually haven't done a trip, a photography related trip like this. I've done workshops, but not, not like an international tour or something. But I've done it a lot for snowboarding. Actually ended up shooting them for snowboarding. But to start with, I was just a paying, a paying customer and it was great because the same kind of thing, it's like, hey, you know, I'm going to. Or maybe me and a mate are going. But that's very different to me and a mate and 15 other snowboarders who are all excited to, to travel around Japan and go snowboarding. You know, it's. [01:46:23] Speaker B: Can I ask a question, Justin? Are you still in contact with some of those snowboarders you met on that trip? Yep, yep, yep. [01:46:30] Speaker A: For sure. [01:46:30] Speaker B: I'm your friends. [01:46:31] Speaker A: Exactly. You make good friends, you have better experiences because, you know, someone says, oh, you know, we should do this or whatever, you know, like, and even like you say, like with the slightly bigger groups, you get to the point where not everyone's having dinner together every night. Sometimes someone's like, oh, we're not gonna go there. We're actually found this other little place around the corner that does Italian food or something. You're like, oh, okay, cool, we might, I might come with you then tonight or whatever, you know, because there's enough people that you can have different groups of people doing different things. Yeah, it's very cool. [01:47:08] Speaker B: We're all adults as well. And this is something I say at the start of my tour, if you want to go and do something else. That's fine. You know, just make sure I know where you are and make sure you're back on the bus by this time. [01:47:18] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [01:47:19] Speaker B: No drama at all. Do whatever you like. You don't have to stick to the itinerary, but everybody usually does because they paid for it. [01:47:26] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. And it's also. You've sort of come up with the itinerary for a reason. You would like to think that. Yeah, it's. They're going to be the fun experiences. So. [01:47:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we did have a good time. It was, you know, we had a ball. [01:47:38] Speaker A: That's awesome. That sounds very fun. You have a look at some of these other pictures. Where was that? [01:47:49] Speaker B: This is. Well, this is coming back from Arthur Pass and we stopped at a place called Castle Hill Rock, which that's not it. It's actually behind me as I'm shooting this. But the thing about New Zealand is like, it really is Lord of the Rings country. But not just that, it's also sheep country. [01:48:06] Speaker A: Yep. [01:48:07] Speaker B: There is a lot of sheep there. And it's. You can't really put into words how beautiful New Zealand is. It really is world class landscape, basically. You know, I'd get shot down for it, but it's like another state of Australia. It's only what, two and a half hours flight away. You can just jump on a plane and you're in this Lord of the Rings country. It's not far away at all. And it's. The people are great, the food is great, it's a little bit expensive, but so is Australia. And there's landscape like this all around you. [01:48:38] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah, it is, it really is stunning. I've done the drive from Christchurch down to Queenstown a few times again for snowboarding. Stuff, stuff. And when I was, I was taking photos over there and even the drive, not venturing off the main road is stunning, let let alone if you start to sort of go, go looking and poking around at, you know, Mount Cook and, and all those sort of places and. Yeah. And then, yeah, as soon as you get into a chopper, it's can't. My jaw was. Mouth was open for, you know, you're just looking around the entire time like, oh my God. [01:49:18] Speaker B: I'm a bit of a. I'm a bit of a closet geologist. So I look at these mountains, I'm like, you know, what geologically happened to create this landscape? And one thing you learn is it's got nothing to do with Australia. Like New Zealand and Australia are so different. They pretty Much have nothing in common at all geologically, really. No. [01:49:40] Speaker A: I guess that makes sense. It makes sense. Now that you say that it makes sense, but. Yeah, it never occurred to me. [01:49:47] Speaker B: Yep. I mean, we've got a lot in common as people. You know, we. We love the rivalry, and we love. We don't always enjoy watching the All Blacks beat the Wallabies over and over again. It gets a bit old, but, you know, it's. It's such a beautiful country. But you look at the animal species down there like, there's no kangaroos, there's no marsupials, you know, there's no snakes. You know, they don't have the same animal species that we have. It's like they were never connected in the Gondwana land pre history at all. [01:50:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:50:22] Speaker B: I'm sure Kev Morse can tell me. He knows everything. [01:50:26] Speaker A: Where are you, kid? [01:50:27] Speaker B: Gotta head off. We'll see you. See you. See you, Grant. [01:50:30] Speaker A: See you, Grant. Thanks for. Thanks for watching. [01:50:33] Speaker B: One thing that I try and do, and I tell everybody on my tours as well, is that we are always out to get an epic individual shot. So if you see someone doing something epic, make sure you take a photograph of them and give it to them, because we all need new profile pics. So that's Ian there, right? [01:50:50] Speaker A: That's awesome. [01:50:52] Speaker B: I got a feeling he's a friend of Kev's as well. So. Yeah, we're always on the lookout for shots like that, and we share them in community chats. [01:50:58] Speaker A: That's great, because. Yeah. To come back with not just the photos you've taken, but a few photos of you in the landscape as well. Pretty awesome. I guess that's the benefit with traveling with a group of photographers. Where was this? [01:51:13] Speaker B: So that is like. I can't remember. [01:51:17] Speaker A: Oh, I've heard of that. [01:51:21] Speaker B: It's Terra now. There's not a lot of great photography around that. Te anaut like, it's one of those places that's really beautiful to your eyes, but actually trying to take all the beauty in a single frame is difficult. [01:51:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:51:40] Speaker B: But it's sort of like a stepping stone onto Milford Sound. So a lot of people sort of stay in Terra now and then move on to Milford Sound. [01:51:47] Speaker A: Right. Okay. [01:51:49] Speaker B: What I love about this is that you've got the footprints going through there. So you can see that earlier in the day that somebody had been doing some jetty jumping. [01:51:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:51:58] Speaker B: Because it would have been freezing. [01:51:59] Speaker A: I was gonna say it'd be cold. Right. [01:52:02] Speaker B: Very cold. [01:52:05] Speaker A: What else we got from here? Whoops. And obviously this tree needs no introduction. [01:52:14] Speaker B: Yeah, you have to do the tree. [01:52:16] Speaker A: You gotta do the tree. [01:52:17] Speaker B: A rite of passage to be able to do the tree and then try and do it better than anybody else has done it. [01:52:23] Speaker A: And again, that's another one of those things where it's like. And I think I'm. I'm sort of evolving a bit because I. I would generally always shy away from shooting something like this. I mean, I've been to Wanaka and I actually didn't even go and look at the tree. I was pretty hungover from Queenstown and. And. But I would normally sort of shy away from it because I'm like, what's the point of me taking this photo? Someone, a photographer that lives in Wanaka, will be able to get way better shots because they'll see it in all different lighting conditions and, you know, different weather and times of the year and stuff. So anything I do will just be not great compared to what someone else could do. That. That was the mindset I always had, but I'm definitely starting to realize that that's the wrong. The wrong mindset. And the right mindset is go and capture something that. That I did that, you know, whether it doesn't matter if it's. If it's the best or not great or whatever. It was, what was happening when I was there. [01:53:29] Speaker B: I love it. It's like Pokemon for adults. You know, you got to catch them all. Of course, I've got to go and photograph the Wanaka tree, you know, and I had probably at this time of the day, most people actually gone home. They actually missed the red sky popping. They thought the sunset was over. So, you know, my group, we just stayed longer and longer and we got rewarded with this sunset. But, you know, I think it's important not to take yourself too seriously as well. Like, I got so much joy from photographing the tree and seeing the tree. I didn't. You know, I'm only sort of tongue in cheek saying, I did it better than anybody else. Yeah, that's a joke. But, you know, this is the darling of Instagram, and I spent a lot of time, you know, learning and posting photographs on Instagram and getting some satisfaction out of that. So, yeah, it's. I think it's brilliant. I think you got to do it, and when you're there, it's just a part of what we do. [01:54:22] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Completely agree. Matt says you're never likely to take the best photograph of a popular place, but you can always capture how you feel or something different. And Yeah, I agree. That's what I think. Think I'm. I'm learning and coming to terms with, as I sort of. I don't know, I think I'm going through a little bit of transition at the moment where. Trying to get back to what. What's photography to me when it's not work, when it's not paid for by someone else? [01:54:54] Speaker B: Yes. [01:54:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:54:56] Speaker B: And a very important comment. [01:54:59] Speaker A: What. What is it? What is it to you when it's not. Because, because arguably, and this is, this is where the lines probably get a bit blurred for you, because this kind of is work. I mean, you didn't have to take this photo for work. No one, no one on that trip would have cared whether you took the photo or not, because you were, you were there to help them, you know, on their. On their trip. But so, so it was, it was for you and you didn't need to take it. But also you were there on a trip that was part of, you know, your job. So what about outside of that, when you, when you're not on these photo trips, do you do any personal work that's just, Just for you? [01:55:40] Speaker B: Yeah. The important thing is that you. You're there for your customers first. You know, like, you don't. You don't pull your camera out first and start shooting for yourself first, you know, and sometimes that's hard to do. Like, I understand. I wouldn't criticize another host for doing that because it's actually difficult to learn that and actually get out and help put other people before yourself to make sure they're getting their shots. And when they're sort of caught up in their own creativity and they found inspiration, then you can sort of set your camera up and do your own thing. But at the same time, they do want to see the way you saw it. So, you know, they've got their shot, but they also want to see how you saw it, how you did it, the way you did it, and that they were there to see the way you did it and then the result, because that may influence the way that they see things in the future. [01:56:30] Speaker A: I was going to say, and then they can ask how come you did that? Or what settings did you use? And then you can look at their photo and talk about the differences, and that's part of the learning process. I definitely agree that if you were to just say, hey, you know, I'm not. This is all you guys. I'm not shooting this. People probably be thinking, oh, I'd like to see what you would do. You Know, like, you know, it's part of it for sure. [01:56:54] Speaker B: It is definitely part of it. So what. What I wanted to do also is I've got. I do some. Some work with Maxim, the company that distribute photographic gear. And yep, we went down to myself and Scott Stramik, who's from the Photographers Collective. We went down a week early. We. We did that. We hired a camper van, and we went out and actually did the tour before the tour to try and capture some video. Actually, my battery on my camera is about to die. I wonder if I can just quickly grab another battery. [01:57:24] Speaker A: Yeah, go for it. [01:57:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Give me two seconds. I can see it flashing there, and I'll go off at the wrong time. So you do a little dance to keep everyone entertained, and I'll come back. [01:57:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Now I'll bring up some more of your images. We'll just. We'll have a little look at them. Hang on. Let's see what we can find here. I'll see if I can find some of the studio work that Greg does. Open with preview. Full screen. Stop screen. Thanks for hanging with us, team, while I share the screen. Done. Look at this dog. Mute Greg while he's doing things. So this is in a folder that Greg sent me of some of his work that he's done at Sunburst Studio. And obviously on location and pretty diverse range of stuff. Oh, that's cool. I wish it was here. I could ask him whether he gelled this or not. I assume there's a gel there. Oh, he's back. Hang on. I'll unmute you. You're unmuted. And you're back. [01:58:46] Speaker B: I'm unmuted. [01:58:47] Speaker A: You're. You're back. You're unmuted. You're good to go. [01:58:51] Speaker B: Sorry about that, everybody. [01:58:52] Speaker A: That's all right. We're just looking at some of your studio work, and I was like, is this. Did. Did you. Did you gel this? [01:59:00] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, there is a blue background that I bought to match the Titans colors. [01:59:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:59:06] Speaker B: There's also a gel leading onto the side of Greg Marsden. [01:59:12] Speaker A: Yeah, very cool. [01:59:15] Speaker B: That was part of a portrait project that I did with the Titans. And then I'm doing a lot of corporate work now, like just people's profile pics now. There's sort of nothing sort of special about them, but, you know, it's something that. That I. I seem to be pretty good at and people like me doing it, so I keep going. [01:59:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:59:34] Speaker B: Definitely pay me for it. So, yeah. [01:59:36] Speaker A: Yeah, there's. There's a lot of work in headshots and profile pics and things. You know, there's people that make full time careers out of it. Yeah. So photography workshop code just brought up a good point that I forgot to tell you while you were doing that as well. The USB C cable, if you have one, if you have an adapter like a MacBook Pros type adapter, something powerful enough that has power delivery, I think over 15 watts or something like that, that has PD power delivery standard. It actually powers the R5. So you don't need a battery. I mean, you need a battery in it, but the battery won't run out and you can tell whether it's working. [02:00:16] Speaker B: Too many peripherals running off it. [02:00:18] Speaker A: Well, I don't know. This is the thing though. I don't know if it can charge while you're using the USB C for your output for your screen. Not 100% sure, but you can tell. [02:00:30] Speaker B: I think we answered that question. [02:00:31] Speaker A: We might have answered it. Well, you can tell if it's working by the little battery indicator on the camera. Changes from being, I think, white to gray when it's accepting power. That's what mine does anyway because mine's currently. But I'm using a HDMI out rather than the USB C out. [02:00:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:00:58] Speaker A: Because unfortunately the Canon Webcam utility doesn't work with any modern Mac. As far as I can tell. [02:01:09] Speaker B: That's what I'm using. [02:01:11] Speaker A: Oh, is it? How, how news your Mac? [02:01:16] Speaker B: I'd have to look at the year that it was made for the current. I think it was a 2020 model. [02:01:22] Speaker A: Interesting. Yeah, I didn't think it was. I mean, yeah, I couldn't get it. Maybe I'll have to try again. I couldn't get it to work with mine. It just wouldn't even install the utility. [02:01:31] Speaker B: 2018. [02:01:33] Speaker A: Oh yeah, that's so prior to the M1s and stuff. [02:01:36] Speaker B: Oh, it must be the M1 chip. [02:01:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And they haven't updated it yet. Apparently the cable from your BenQ SW270C will work is what we're being told. This is great. It's like tech support in the live chat during a live stream. [02:01:54] Speaker B: He doesn't know everything. [02:01:55] Speaker A: He knows everything. This is everything. Yeah. For those of you just listening, sorry for the last 10 minutes, but I promise there'll be more good stuff to come. It's been fun. But yeah, the studio stuff is brilliant. Very, very clean. Clean. [02:02:13] Speaker B: Look, I love it. It's something I enjoy doing. [02:02:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So you really, you really get a kick out of setting up the lighting and Getting that, those really crisp, clean, you know, super sharp results. That's nice. [02:02:28] Speaker B: Yeah. One, you know, let's just be honest, like photographing middle aged men, they don't want to be there, they don't to want to get their photos done, but doing them and doing them justice in, you know, in a way that they like. I enjoy that challenge. Yeah, I love doing it. [02:02:45] Speaker A: They've always got so much character too. [02:02:48] Speaker B: Yeah. They're actually better to photograph than models, but it's hard to get some of these guys to stand in front of your camera. [02:02:55] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. What's happening in this photo? That's a large bird. [02:03:01] Speaker B: That is des, a wedge tail eagle. And that's Mark Cullerton from the O'Reilly's Birds of Prey show. So we run a Birds of Prey photographic workshop. [02:03:12] Speaker A: Yep. [02:03:12] Speaker B: And at the end of it, just as an added extra that I set up a Godox light and I say, you know, have a go with one of these triggers. So because the triggers are not very expensive, I've got Sony ones, I've got Nikon ones, I've got Canon ones, and people just come and have a go. And I've been meaning to. It's sort of an introduction to another workshop which might be environmental portraits, which I've actually never done and put together. [02:03:37] Speaker A: That'd be cool. [02:03:38] Speaker B: Yeah. But people like doing it and Mark doesn't mind standing in there and, you know, he's an interesting guy. [02:03:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:03:44] Speaker B: Even just balancing ambient light with studio lighting on location, it's good fun. [02:03:51] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely a fun thing for people to learn if they haven't had a go at it before. Well done. Managing to light him and that giant bird and light both of his eyes without that hat getting in the way. It's quite impressive. [02:04:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, exactly. And even just the shadow of the bird getting in the way. [02:04:09] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I'm like, this is well done. A lot of things going on there. [02:04:14] Speaker B: As you're probably well aware, there's nine sales for every success. That's true. You don't get to see the files. [02:04:20] Speaker A: Exactly. Was this, Was this lit from the right? [02:04:24] Speaker B: Yep, yep, yep. So basically that's part of a project that I do for. For a company that rewards its best performing staff member every month with a portrait session. [02:04:38] Speaker A: Really? [02:04:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:04:39] Speaker A: So that's cool. [02:04:40] Speaker B: Basically I just say, what are you interested in? And, you know, this particular occasion was, you know what, I have a. I have an old Alfa Romeo that I love my. Great. Bring it along. [02:04:52] Speaker A: How did that come about? Was that something you pitched to the company, did they approach you? Do they use you for every shoot? Like, what? What? Yeah. How did that happen? [02:05:03] Speaker B: They used me. I think they use me for every shoot. But. But no, they actually. They actually pitch the idea to me, which usually I'm not used to that. I'm used to actually being the guy that pitches the idea and the company's like, I love it, let's do it. And then I see them in invoice. But on this occasion, that was their idea and I said, yep, I love it, let's do it. [02:05:25] Speaker A: That's really cool. That's very cool. It's very interesting that they come up with that as a, you know, as an idea without sort of a photographer putting it in front of them. They were like, well, what can we do? [02:05:39] Speaker B: Yeah, well, there's always, like, as a photographer, there's always a way to make money and become successful. I find most people who don't sort of succeed in the area, it's because they're not, you know, they're waiting for people to come to them. But the truth is, is you've got to go out there and find the work yourself. [02:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And. And foster relationships and. And sort of get your name out there and ideally have a bit of a hook, a bit of a point of difference. You know, if you do everything, it can be tricky to get traction and for people to tell other people about you if you have sort of nothing special. So having a bit of a point of difference can definitely help make that. [02:06:24] Speaker B: Yeah. And without referrals, you're probably not going to survive. So, you know, you need to work on the relationships. [02:06:30] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. Ah, that's cool. That's very cool. [02:06:37] Speaker B: The pet photographer here. I'd love to do more pet photography, but I don't have a lot of people knocking my door down to do it in the studio. But it is. It is kind of messy and smelly as well. I don't really go aggressively chasing the work as much as I thought I would be. [02:06:52] Speaker A: Yeah, I've seen some people make a business out of it. I've. I think in Australia, I mean, they. They certainly position their social media like it's. It's quite, you know, a reasonable business that they're doing with just pet photography. So I'm sure it could be done. [02:07:10] Speaker B: Yes, it can. [02:07:11] Speaker A: But is it. Is it just something where it's like you haven't seen enough traction? Like, obviously you could. You could advertise harder and spend more money, but it's, you know, I guess. [02:07:22] Speaker B: Like, well, you know, having worked at Starshots in a glamour studio, like, I do understand how to run a professional studio business, you know, but, but I don't always want to do that. Like, I don't really actually want to work that hard. Like I, you know, obviously you've got to, you know, keep the walls from your door. You've got to make enough money to survive. But I like doing different things. Like the other day I did a video for a $10 million helicopter that for sale. Like, I like the variety, I like the challenge. I'll do portography, I'll do portraits on location, I'll do corporate work. But you know, I guess after, after 25 plus years in work, there's not a lot of stuff I can't do. So I'm trying to find things that I'm actually interested in doing. So to run a proper pet portrait business, you know, full time. I don't, I don't think, I think I actually want to do that anymore. [02:08:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it kind of becomes a, I mean the normal studio set up where it's volume, you hire people to do post production, it's aggressive selling. [02:08:31] Speaker B: Yep. [02:08:32] Speaker A: You know, and it becomes its, its whole thing. And I'm sure it can be profitable. But like you say, is that really what you want to spend your days doing? You know, do you want to be tied. Tied to the studio all day? Kind of. The other thing is too, you know, you get, you get good at it and you get the business good. And then suddenly the shoots all feel the same because it's same. [02:08:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:08:52] Speaker A: Same thing in your studio, just with a different pet. [02:08:55] Speaker B: And I wouldn't be able to do my international stuff, which, you know, less than four weeks I'm on a, on a plane to the Italian Dolomites. What? [02:09:07] Speaker A: Wow. So. [02:09:08] Speaker B: But if I had a full time studio, I wouldn't be able to do that. [02:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's right. Or you'd have to block out an amount of time. And then if you have any employees, all of a sudden they're doing nothing while you go on and you're paying them or whatever. And. Yeah, it's. Yeah. Very, very. [02:09:25] Speaker B: When the boss goes, you know, they're not going to be working as hard as you being there. And you know, even just the commitment of employing stuff, you know, it's a. Look, I wouldn't not do it. But at the same time you have to think about it carefully. [02:09:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:09:40] Speaker B: Because it's a, it's a commitment to. You've got to look after those people who Are your employee employees that, you know, they need you, they need the wage, they need the business to be successful. So they keep a job, pay the mortgage. [02:09:54] Speaker A: So the Italian Dolomites, what, what goes on there? Is that a tour? Is that like a tour you're running? [02:10:00] Speaker B: Well, this is, this is for me, going to be my, my biggest experience, I think, that I've ever done. So I love putting these tours together. Like, I love it. And when I first got involved with running these workshops, I just wanted to do Croatia because on my honeymoon when I went to Croatia, I was absolutely astounded with the beauty of the place. It was just, you know, literally I knew nothing apart from the fact that Croatia, they had a war which they, which they won and that was it. So I guess I had these preconceived ideas of what Croatia would be like. And when I went there to meet Maria's family over there, you know, it wasn't what I expected. You know, you've got this beautiful Adriatic coastline, you know, with that, that rich, deep, aqua blue water. You've got these mountains and I mean, not Australian mountains. You've got big mountains in Europe, they're massive. But you've also got the Roman ruins as well. They've got a heritage and a culture that goes back to Neanderthal times. You know, they got a lot of Roman ruins and pre Roman settlements and things. So you've got all these great big Roman palaces and aqueducts and things like that. And then you've also got that old fisherman with the pipe in his mouth with the spacklit with the smoke coming up, and he's fixing his fishing nets and he's sitting on like an old fishing boat with paint flaking off it and suddenly literally having that fit about how beautiful everything is. [02:11:25] Speaker A: And is he just sitting there for the photos? Is he like, does someone pay him to, to sit there and tourists take photos of him or. These are real characters that, that, you know, because that's what it sounds like, a postcard. You know, it sounds like. It sounds like the photos that you see on the Internet that you kind of think that's not real. So. [02:11:46] Speaker B: So that's what it's like when. Yeah, you'd have to say that Croatia is a tourist country now. Like, there is a lot that goes on in the summer, but I wouldn't poo poo. Like, my tour that I'm doing is in peak tourist season because the country actually also comes alive during that time. You know, you've got the actors dressed up in Roman Centurion outfits. You've got people from all over the world having a good time and the summer on the Adriatic is, you know, the swimming and everything is. Yeah, incredible. So it's, it's a peak season tour. But you, it's not difficult to get outside of the tourist traps to see the real Croatia as well. You know, the food and the, you know, they literally. The food is so good that, you know, you wouldn't go to a fish restaurant if that fish wasn't swimming around in the ocean that morning. Like the, you know, all the food that you meet. The wine is made from locally grown grapes that have been made based on a 400 year old recipe. And you know, the cheeses and everything, like it's not mass produced. Yeah, it's fresh and it doesn't taste like what we, the food tastes like in Australia, like the, the wine tastes like. I call it Ribena for adults. It's just so you can almost taste the sunshine in it, but, you know, the goodness in the local wine and the whole, whole country's like that. So when I first got into running workshops, I only wanted to. To Croatia. [02:13:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:13:09] Speaker B: But you know, over, over the years that kind of expanded. You know, I do Croatia and Bosnia Herzegovina and then I do Croatia and Venice or Slovenia or you know, we just piece on like an extra bit that I hadn't done before. So this time we're doing the Italian Dolomites and that Adriatic. Like we literally charted the biggest yacht that we could find. You know, one of those sort of billionaire looking yacht things. And we're going to spend seven nights on that. Is that the only way to see Croatians? Yeah, the yellow one. [02:13:39] Speaker A: Is that the pictures that are in here? Hang on. I saw that and I was like, I was like, what is this boat? Hang on. So these are. So this boat. Let me get this to come up on the screen. This boat is what you'll be on. Everyone will be on this one. [02:14:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I can't see. Yes, that's it. That's the Ms. Arca. The only thing Gina could complain about was the fact it was yellow. I'm like, oh, that's fine. But these boats, I like it. Yeah, these boats are booking out two years in advance now. So off the top of my head, that cost us €70,000 to book that. So, you know, you do have some skin in the game. [02:14:23] Speaker A: You guys have the whole thing now. [02:14:26] Speaker B: There are some. We wanted to book the whole thing, but we couldn't get enough people going to book all the cabins. We had to release them back to the company. So we only had 10 cabins on there, 16 cabins in total or something like that. So there was other people from Australia on there as well. [02:14:43] Speaker A: Oh, cool. Yeah, so it's close to the whole thing, though. Wow, look at this. [02:14:47] Speaker B: Yeah, so. So if, if you're, you know, the best way to see Croatia, particularly the Dalmatian Islands, is on a boat. And that's your floating hotel. So, you know. Yeah, that's, that's the Jacuzzi. That's where, that's where you'll find me. [02:15:03] Speaker A: Wow. You just run the whole tour from there, just like walkie talkies. [02:15:09] Speaker B: Yeah, let's, let's have an inspirational workshop in the Jacuzzi. I'll meet you there. You know. [02:15:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:15:17] Speaker B: The tour is what you make. There's no rules in these things. You can do whatever you want. And the idea is if it's fun for you, it's probably gonna be fun for other people. [02:15:25] Speaker A: Exactly. Give people an amazing experience. I didn't even know. Yeah, I didn't even know this sort of stuff was a thing, so. [02:15:33] Speaker B: Okay, well, this is. Hang on, I have to count the days off the top of my head. It's 17 days. I just need to think about for a sec. Six, seven, 14 days. So 14 days, seven of them are land based and then seven of them are on the yacht. And that was $10,000 Australian to come on this trip. A little bit more if you wanted like a single supplement, all that kind of stuff. [02:15:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, so 10. Sorry, what'd you say? $10,000 Australian. [02:16:03] Speaker B: Australian dollars? Yeah. [02:16:04] Speaker A: For 14 days. That's not bad. [02:16:06] Speaker B: It's not bad. And when you accommodation, everything. [02:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's. I mean, it's still a lot of money, but it is, it is, you know, a decent holiday. I think the hard thing with, with stuff with holidays like that's like you. If you think about it as just your accommodation, it might sound slightly on the expensive side, but yeah, once you sort of, once you start adding all the things together, it quickly adds up those, those kind of things. [02:16:34] Speaker B: Well, if you're a couple, it's $20,000. Plus your flights and flights aren't cheap at the moment, so. So 4 to 5,000. So, you know, your investment as a couple is at $30,000. So it is a lot. [02:16:45] Speaker A: It's a lot. [02:16:47] Speaker B: You wouldn't be able to do this for cheaper. [02:16:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's also, hey, it's a bargain compared to going to Antarctica. Or Africa with Jay, you know. [02:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah, but we don't have any rhinoceroses or lions or anything. [02:17:04] Speaker A: No, exactly. But hey, look at this experience. [02:17:07] Speaker B: You know, we. It's all about the culture and the heritage of place and it's just. It's just amazing. [02:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:17:15] Speaker B: Yes, we will have a good time. So that's happening in a month. And I've literally just also posted expressions of interest for my Christmas 2024. I call the winter wonderlands. Like, if you like the idea of European Christmas markets and castles in the snow, then you'll like this one. [02:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Have you, have you ran one of those before or will that be the first winter? Yep. [02:17:39] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. We don't always do them exactly the same, which is always difficult because in a way you are going to some places you haven't been to before as well, and that's a difficulty. Like you. We don't want to do the same workshop over and over and over again. Greg is your. [02:17:57] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. See if you can. See if you can capture a shot of Greg in the hot tub with your 500 mil lens. [02:18:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Paparazzi Jason, I think, I think he. I think he copped for a 600 mil lens. RF600. [02:18:14] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. Anyway, that's a lot of money. [02:18:18] Speaker B: That's what we do. Like, my trips are completely different to the, to the African trips. You know, you don't really have sort of the five star out in. In the bush there. But yeah, mine, the accommodation and everything is really important. [02:18:33] Speaker A: And this, the social aspect of, of eating together and, and experiencing food and wine and stuff like that. [02:18:41] Speaker B: And we're going to go to look. I mean, we are. We did still do a little bit of rough stuff. Nothing like what Scotty does. But we're going to go to the. Apologies for the Italians if I pronounce it this wrong. The Trey Chimney Della Virido, which is like one of the world's most famous hikes, about 10km. But if you just Google Dolomites, you'll see photographs of that particular hike because that's where they're taken from. So, you know, some of the world's most iconic landscapes. You know, Lago de Braes, our accommodation. We've got accommodation. There's only one private hotel on the actual lake and that's what we booked. So we booked these things years in advance to get. So we're literally waking up every morning, you know, on the lake. Whereas other tourists have got to sort of go through the national parks, admit their permits, you know, find a parking space. The park isn't open till 8:30, but we, you know, we're there at sunrise every morning while we're there. [02:19:36] Speaker A: And, and so there won't be many other people there. Only, only people that were staying in that private accommodation could be there. Wow, that's cool. It's. Yeah, it's those kind of little things. [02:19:48] Speaker B: Astros. Yeah, and that's what we do. Like if, if we are not staying five star, it's because we're actually, we've got the hotel by the lake or inside the national park or, you know, so you actually wake up at the location. The hotel is a location in itself. [02:20:03] Speaker A: How much, how much photography stuff happens on these trips? And I don't mean like, you know, shooting, but like, do you guys do some editing together? Do you help people with their editing? Is there any of that kind of stuff? Any structured photography workshop type stuff? [02:20:23] Speaker B: Well, I guess there's two different types of trips. Like the Norfolk island trip that we did, there's a lot. It's basically all structured workshops, you know, morning, afternoon, and then something at night as well. So there's like three, three a day type thing. But most of the internationals don't really have a lot of structure to them. The structure is the schedule, you know, the hike around Trey, Timmy Delavarido. What I found is that, you know, sometimes I'll pick up the microphone on the bus if I want to run through a few things. Every group's different. So, you know, if I've got like a fairly rookie group, I'll go through some settings like that. Like this is how I see it, this is how I'd be doing it. But most of the people on my tours now are reasonably advanced. I don't have to do a lot of that. So I spend a lot of one on one time on the raging rookies. That's what I call them, the raging rookies. And that way I sort of bring them up to speed so that they sort of are able to catch up more experienced photographers. But usually we spend all day shooting and doing activities. And then at night, if you've got the energy, we'll go to the bar with our laptop and then just have a couple of, couple of night caps and then do some lightroom. Because I think of travel lightroom as a discipline. You, you download your backup, you know, in the field on the same day that you've done the shoot. Yeah, that's what we try and do. We didn't do a lot of that in New Zealand because we were just too exhausted. But yeah, that's usually what I try and do. [02:21:44] Speaker A: Yep. So not, not very structured. More like, hey, you, you're there to help if someone wants help or, or you might be doing. Yeah, like I say, a little bit of lightroom at the bar, just hanging out, looking at photos, playing around with them. But it's not like, hey, at 5:30 I'll be running a seminar on, you know. Yeah, okay. [02:22:04] Speaker B: I guess, like I've gone through a process to think about this and I won't name names, but there are other tour operators who'll have 100 people out there at sunrise and you know, and have a tripod set up at eye level and everyone doing the same thing. Okay, these are your shot settings. And I started thinking, that's dumb. I don't like that. That's not fun. Because, you know, if you come on my tour, I want you to have your own little adventure within our adventure as well. And if you need some help, you know, I'm here, I'm available, I'm easily approachable, but otherwise I'm not going to come and hassle you. I'm going to leave you alone. [02:22:38] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's more for, yeah, troubleshooting or just a bit of a chat and advice or whatever. But not, not like, hey, I'm going to teach you all how I shoot Sunrise while sunrise is happening. Yeah, yeah. [02:22:52] Speaker B: I'm going to teach you how to develop your own style. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. [02:22:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Very cool, very cool. And so these are the big tours, the big kind of amazing Europe tours. But do you, do you do some smaller workshops, local things and stuff as well, like the, you were talking about the Birds of Prey. [02:23:11] Speaker B: I do less than I thought I would be doing. Like, I thought when I, when I got major redundant at Canon Australia that I would be doing a lot of little workshops on my own. But what I found is that firstly, Canon opens a lot of doors, like the brand name Canon. When you say, hi, I'm Greg from Canon, you know, would you be interested in doing this? They're like, oh, cool. You know, you've got all these followers on Instagram and stuff. Let's go and do this. Yeah, but when you're out on your own, you're just, you know, Greg Sullivan from Sunburst Studio. Who's that? I don't know. The doors don't open like they used to. It's a bit harder. You got to a lot more intellectual property in the experience. And if you run that experience and there's only one thing worse than no people coming to your experience. That's one person. Which means that you still run the workshop for a single person and you basically you're losing money to do it. I mean, yeah, as good as the experience is for that one person gets a lot of one on one time. At the end of the day you're not going to be paying your mortgage or whatever doing that. So I'm doing less of that smaller scale workshop than I thought I would be doing. However, I do a Birds of Prey workshop which I think is a really wonderful experience. You know, if it sells out, I buy everybody lunch as well because there's enough money in that kitty of money to do it. Yeah, yeah, why not? Yeah. Make a better experience. Reinvesting. [02:24:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:24:28] Speaker B: I do some creative filtered workshops as well around Brisbane. Like I love having projects where you can take the best possible photographs of a region. Can you guys see that helicopter? [02:24:41] Speaker A: A little bit, yeah. What's going on there? [02:24:43] Speaker B: I don't know. [02:24:44] Speaker A: You got, you got a doors off helicopter experience starting soon. Just pick you up. [02:24:49] Speaker B: It's probably my competitors doing. Ah yes, just let me know, you know. But no, I do Birds of Prey. I do a creative filters workshop. I'm doing a workshop actually for free at the Brisbane Photography Festival coming up which is something that if anyone's in Brisbane and wants to have a look at that. I know that Steve Finkel and the old Canon Collective community has done a lot of work in that. So I'm doing a workshop there. [02:25:20] Speaker A: When's the Brisbane Festival? Yeah, when is that? [02:25:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it's in June so I'd have to look it up to see the exact dates but it goes for a week. That's just before I go overseas. So I'm leaving on the 24th of June and it's like the week leading up to that. [02:25:38] Speaker A: Nice. [02:25:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's good. I know Camera Pro is involved and there's a few other sort of people there. Damien Bredberg speaking, who is a really great commercial photographer up here. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be good. [02:25:53] Speaker A: Very cool. [02:25:53] Speaker B: That's about it. I don't really do a lot of other. I sometimes do some workshops for camera clubs like a, like a bespoke lightroom. Like you know, when lightroom gets one of those big upgrades a few camera clubs will just contact me to sort of run their people through what the changes are and what they mean. [02:26:08] Speaker A: Yep. [02:26:09] Speaker B: Yeah, that's about it. Yeah. [02:26:11] Speaker A: Interesting man. Sounds like like you got a lot going on a lot of Different? Yeah, from international tours to pet photography and, you know, like, it's quite a range of things that you do. Is that how you like it now? Do you like to be doing all sorts of different stuff? You know, you don't want to be just. Just doing photo tours or just shooting in the studio? [02:26:35] Speaker B: No, no, like with anything. Like, I like shooting weddings, but I only like, want to do a few a year. I like doing pet photography, I like doing the international tours. I like. I like the variety of what I do. I really enjoy it. Like, even, for example, like, I still have fun shooting. Last night I was out shooting Astros at Winna Marina, you know, Manly Marina, just to see whether I could actually get the Milky Way behind the yachts, because, you know, there's a lot of light pollution around there. Yeah, I was there between like 9 and 11 o' clock last night. For fun. [02:27:06] Speaker A: For fun, yeah, exactly. That's pretty amazing. [02:27:09] Speaker B: I still enjoy doing that. Like, I still challenge myself to do it. Like, it's like a personal project to be able to. To take nice photos of Brisbane, the Redlands, Wyndham area, which, you know, it's not always the prettiest place on earth, so it's actually hard to do those. [02:27:27] Speaker A: I'll bring some of them up now. I was having a look at those before. [02:27:30] Speaker B: Yeah, that's the Instagram Immy, you know. [02:27:38] Speaker A: Where are we? Here we go. Bring these up. Some shots of Brisbane. [02:27:48] Speaker B: You know, can you find a place that everybody knows that you can shoot in a way that people haven't done it before? [02:27:54] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Part of the fun seeing something different, something that no one else has seen. I've only brought up one image. Sorry, team, let me just redo this. [02:28:09] Speaker B: I can tell you though, that if I post one of my best landscape photos from around Brisbane, you actually don't get that many likes on Instagram. You don't get a lot of love from Instagram posting photos anymore. [02:28:20] Speaker A: No, it's definitely changed. [02:28:24] Speaker B: But if I took a video of my kid eating dirt, I'd probably get a lot more likes. [02:28:31] Speaker A: Probably. I. I didn't even. Sorry, I haven't even asked. So you have. You've got one kid? Kids. Multiple kids. [02:28:37] Speaker B: I've got three that they're. They're like teenagers now. Like Jessica, My eldest is 19, she's studying business and law at university. And my son, 17, is finishing high school this year. [02:28:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:28:50] Speaker B: And my youngest, Olivia, she's like the wild one. She's the outrageous extrovert. She plays soccer. [02:28:56] Speaker A: And she will be the the one eating dirt. [02:29:00] Speaker B: She'd be the one making me eat dirt. She's a bit of a bully. [02:29:05] Speaker A: Awesome. Have any of them shown any interest in photography at all or. [02:29:10] Speaker B: No, not at all. [02:29:11] Speaker A: Not at all. [02:29:12] Speaker B: No interest at all. I first picked up a camera when I was in grade two and I was so upset that all my photos were blurry that I think my little grade two brain, it must have, you know, kicked something over that made me want to be better at it. [02:29:26] Speaker A: Yep. And that stuck with you for forever. [02:29:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. And that's. And it still drives me today. Like I still love taking photographs and with my landscape work, I'm obsessed with taking a pretty image. Like there's no other way to say I want to take a beautiful photograph. And that's what I'm always trying to take a prettier photograph than the last one. Yeah, that's. It's just. I couldn't explain why I do it. It's just what I do. [02:29:54] Speaker A: You can definitely see it in the, in these images of Brisbane. Like, it's. Yeah. You're not going for the. The moody look or the. Whatever it's like. [02:30:07] Speaker B: Yeah, really going for the moody look. I think there's one black and white there that, that I've sort of gone for a moody look, but it's rare. Like I. I want to portray the place like, with lifestyle in it. Like I want people in it. I want. I want it to look like a fun place to be. [02:30:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of what Brisbane's like too. It's like. It's warm, it's nice, sun's out. [02:30:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I love Brisbane. Yeah, that's the moody one. See, I sometimes do Moody. [02:30:37] Speaker A: Yeah, it is nice. That's cool. It's a very cool photo. [02:30:41] Speaker B: Thanks. [02:30:41] Speaker A: Very cool. I assume there was a fairly serious ND involved in that one. [02:30:47] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, it's probably. Jay got me into filters a long time ago with ADA filters and I guess I didn't really understand why people use filters a long time ago. And over the years I really enjoy using them. Like it's a way of making shooting outside of your camera's native boundaries. Like say, for example, it's probably like an eight minute exposure. [02:31:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:31:11] Speaker B: You know, why would you do that? That's. I mean, Jay doesn't like this stuff. He's like, oh, why would you do that? It's all mushy. You've just. You've got no detail in that water. It's terrible. [02:31:22] Speaker A: Yeah. But it kind of looks like looks like a painting or something. Like a pastel. Yeah, yeah. [02:31:29] Speaker B: It's more of a fantasy art piece now than saying that this really happened. And you know who's to blame for that? Peter Eastwood. [02:31:39] Speaker A: Damn him. [02:31:41] Speaker B: Yep. Like he's like, you know what, it doesn't matter whether the moment actually happened. It matters how it makes you feel, you know? [02:31:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:31:48] Speaker B: A young AIPP photographer is looking at that thinking, oh yeah, yeah. How you make it. That's right. He's right. But all these influences, you know, like they just add up. [02:31:59] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. Very cool. Oh hey, thank you. [02:32:06] Speaker B: Yeah, this is. So I've been doing some local stuff as well. So this is Victoria Point between the Redlands. [02:32:12] Speaker A: Oh right. So closest where your studio is. Yeah, it's a home. [02:32:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Redlands. It's, it's, I don't know, like 40 minutes from the city. It's halfway between Brisbane and the Gold Coast. It's, it's estuary. So there's lots of mud and mud flats and, and mangroves. It's a sort of a fishing. Fishing place which we sort of grew up and. Yeah, photographing. Look, there hasn't been a lot of good development in the Redlands to be honest. It's not a pretty place to go anymore. But I still enjoy trying to show the pretty sides of the place. Like this is my local jetty. It's like literally a 10 minute walk down the road from me. [02:32:53] Speaker A: That's cool. [02:32:53] Speaker B: The point's interesting because it's one of the only places on the eastern seaboard you can actually watch the sunset over water. You know, it's the way that the, you know, the bays in the estuaries run. Yeah. [02:33:06] Speaker A: Yep. Yeah. Interesting. [02:33:09] Speaker B: I grew up, I grew up here so you know, you could imagine a six year old Greg without shoes on fishing from this jetty as kid. A kid. That's a true story. In fact, there weren't rails at the end back then. I actually remember riding my BMX bike off the end of this jetty. [02:33:24] Speaker A: Really? [02:33:25] Speaker B: Yes. We all did it. They're probably still there, some of them. [02:33:29] Speaker A: Right, so. So you grew up around here. You've been, you've been based there other than your time in Sydney for. Yeah, for your whole life. [02:33:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Base Bayside person, born and bred. In fact on my dad's side. We're about seven generations in this area going back to early settlement. [02:33:45] Speaker A: Wow, that's amazing. [02:33:46] Speaker B: Really have a sort of a tight connection and you know, just the other day I was thinking about. Sounds like a weird segue here. But I think a lot about, you know, aboriginals, how they have a connection to land and what that means. And I wonder how long, like, when was the last time my family, my ancestor ancestors had a connection to land. [02:34:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:34:07] Speaker B: But just recently, Recently I've been thinking, hang on a minute. I'm connected to land. I am connected to this land here. That's why I keep coming back and photographing might be different, you know? You know, I have. My family hasn't been here 40, 000 years, but I still feel a very strong connection to it. [02:34:25] Speaker A: Yeah, you feel. Do you feel like this, this would be home forever? Is that how you feel? Even if. Even if, you know, life took you somewhere else for a few years, years, at some point, this would still end up being home? [02:34:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:34:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:34:42] Speaker B: Well, it did. I moved to Sydney and as soon as I met Maria in Sydney and I sold her the dream about moving. [02:34:47] Speaker A: To Wellington Point, that was, that was the immediate goal, was it is try and convince her to come. Come home. [02:34:54] Speaker B: Absolutely. Absolutely. And she's like, I'm a city girl, you know, it's. I don't want to go up there to the country. That's weird. [02:34:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:35:00] Speaker B: But, you know, once I showed her the charms of Wellington Point, then, then she's like, yeah, you know what? It's not that bad. [02:35:08] Speaker A: Well, it certainly looks like a beautiful place. Being that close to. Being that close to the ocean would be wonderful. [02:35:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:35:18] Speaker A: Unfortunately, an inland person, born and bred. [02:35:21] Speaker B: Yeah. You're a freshwater person. [02:35:24] Speaker A: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I do love the ocean though. But. Yeah, just been in. Been in Bendigo for a long time and love traveling, but. Yeah, this is sort of a base. A base for me for now. I think so. [02:35:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Actually, while we've been talking, I'm thinking about how you started your business, Lucky Straps, and you started that at Bendigo. [02:35:46] Speaker A: Yep, yep. They're still made. They're made here. Yeah. Yeah, they're still made 10 minutes from my house. Yeah, it's. It's cool. It was something that I really wanted to do at the time, having something made in Bendigo, actually this dream of having a shoe factory, I thought that would be cool. That never happened, but I thought, you know, a shoe factory with shoes are made in Bendigo, that would be. That'd be cool. Ended up being camera straps made in Bendigo, which is something I'm definitely very proud of. Like, having an Australian made product is one thing, but having something made in my hometown, like where I grew up, you know, that's. Yeah. I mean, I can't. I live this house that I live in now. This, this was my grandparents house. This is where my dad grew up. [02:36:28] Speaker B: Connection to land. [02:36:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely. [02:36:32] Speaker B: It's a nice story with of Richard. Give the photographer. I wonder if your bender goes Richard Gibb now. [02:36:39] Speaker A: I don't think so. I'm definitely not as famous as he was. I don't know why he was just, I don't know, he just, everyone knew his name. I think he had a shot studio in the middle of town that had the sign up and you know, all that sort of stuff and. But yeah, I don't think, I don't think in that way I am, but. But yeah, definitely, yeah. I'm not sure. I hadn't really ever thought about it in that sense of being sort of so tied to Bendigo, even though I've grown up here. But yeah, a lot of my life revolves around this location, that's for sure. [02:37:14] Speaker B: I didn't know like until you started talking that it's a Bendigo story. Yeah, the Lucky Straps, like I've done Lucky Straps now for a long time, but before I even knew you and I didn't know it was such like a. That's the amount of bravery to do that since I left Canon inside of my own company. It's not easy to do. Like you just don't know what you don't know. Working for other people. [02:37:42] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, I think, I think I was lucky in the sense that I've been around a lot of people that have run successful businesses so I knew it was possible and have really supportive parents that you know, were like, yep, go for it, do whatever, do whatever you want to do. And I also managed to do it while, managed to get it off the ground while still working. And I, and I built sort of a part time photography business at the same time as building Lucky Strap. So when I made the jump from working full time to working for myself, I had, I had about 20 weddings booked. That's what was interesting when you said earlier that you had had 30 weddings booked and that was sort of the moment that you could have made the jump. I, I had 20, I think 23 weddings booked for the summer, the upcoming summer. And I did all the maths and figured out that if I, if I quit my job in I think October, that for the financial year with the weddings that I had booked, I would be okay. I was like, if I hang on till October. And then I think I had four or five weddings booked in October. So I was like, all right. I have to. That's when I'll stop working. And because yeah, I was still shooting weddings on the weekends and editing and at the end of every day at 5pm I'd. There was one post office in Bendigo that opened till 6:15. 6:15 was when the post got picked up there. So I knew I had between 5pm and 6:15 to pack any Lucky Straps orders and get them to the post office for that day. And then I'd go home and do some editing and stuff like that. And it was, yeah, it was, it was a little bit crazy for a while. But I think having photography as a wedding, photography, particularly as a business alongside the camera straps allowed the camera straps to, to do its thing and take risks. Whereas if, if I had tried to start that maybe as just the only thing that I had. I don't know, I don't know what would have happened because I think you end up making decisions that they're not the right decisions, but you make them because you need money, you know, so. So because I had photography too, it allowed me to be a little bit more relaxed with whether the camera straps were making money or not wasn't really too much of a worry for the first, well, long time years. I was able to kind of run it more with a long term mindset than a short term. So. [02:40:24] Speaker B: Well, what made you, what made you think of the. The fingers crossed. I've actually always wondered that. Like, honestly. [02:40:30] Speaker A: Yeah, so I, this is a funny story. I'm glad it's at the end of the podcast. Maybe no one will hear it. So I, I was actually going to start an underwear brand, men's underwear. So. And it was going to be called Lucky. And a guy that I know who used to put a magazine out and stuff, he published some of my photos in it. He was a really great graphic artist called Brandon Ells from Sydney. He did some work for the, the underwear and made a logo up and stuff like that. And then I end up sort of ditching that idea. And when the camera strap stuff come along, I was trying to figure out what to call it and I spoke to him about making a logo and he was like, why don't you call it Lucky? But I've got a different idea for the logo now. And he sent me that across and I was like, awesome, sounds good. I didn't, I actually didn't even give it any thought. I just, I looked at it, it looked cool. He sent me like a business card mockup and I was like, yep, that sounds good looking Back on it now. We probably would have been more successful if we had a more leathery, I don't know, rustic name. Like something and something. You know, like those names that you see and they got like, you know, like there's something and something or whatever. But I don't know. I like it. I've had. Yeah, it is what it is. I've. I've made it a thing and I like it and lots of people like it. Every now and then we still get comments that are like, oh, it's a, it's a weird name for a camera strap. And I'm like, yep, yep. [02:42:13] Speaker B: But you remember. Yeah, I actually see people with bumper stickers around with Lucky and the, and the thing there. [02:42:23] Speaker A: We put a fair few stickers out. But there also is, there is, there is another. There's a cup, there's another brand, there's a snowball brand. Looks very similar, but it's not fingers crossed. But it's, it's, it's. Yeah, it's a slightly different but similar looking thing. And there is, I think there's a DJ brand as well that has a crossed fingers logo. But it's very, it's more like sketchy drawn rather than printed like houses. So it could be that. But also. Yeah, with. Yeah, we put send out a lot of stickers over the years, so wouldn't surprise me. You know, it's. It's been a fun journey. [02:43:02] Speaker B: Your major competitor unlucky with just the middle finger. [02:43:07] Speaker A: We should, we should make that. Maybe I'll make a competitor that's the same. [02:43:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. And the catch guy is that, you know, the strap is not actually very good. So in the middle of a shoot, it falls and breaks. [02:43:22] Speaker A: It might depends if you're unlucky or not unlucky. [02:43:26] Speaker B: Exactly. [02:43:29] Speaker A: Very cool. Well, we might leave it there. That's a quarter past two. I gotta do some work. Maybe you've probably got things to do. [02:43:39] Speaker B: Imagine having a job and doing stuff. I don't know. [02:43:41] Speaker A: I know, it's weird, right? [02:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah, weird. Actually, I'll leave you on a note. Do you still have my Instagram account open? Yeah, like just when you're talking about being a boot maker, just reminded me of a story that I wanted to leave you on. When I was in Switzerland, I just walked around. You know. One of my favorite things to do is just to find places that, that I've. I don't know anything about. You might just scroll down. It was a couple of years ago, so apologies. It's an old Guy. So just. I'll tell you when to stop when I see it. So there's a place over there near Interlaken called Lake Tun. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it properly. T H U n. And I went there and you know, basically there's beautiful castles. So just. Yeah, just keep flicking through. I'll say when I see it. Beautiful castles. And I was just walking around one day and you're always looking for that character in their environment, that award winning portrait or your next portrait that's going to hopefully do well at the Appas. Actually, it's not far now. And so anyway, I was walking along and then I saw him and he's got a cigar in his mouth and he's got his little shop there that probably hasn't changed in 50, 60 years. And I held my camera up, you know, in the international. It's pretty close. Stop, stop, stop. That one, yeah, that one, yeah. So you're talking about being a boot maker. So I'm walking around Lake Thun and I see this guy in his shop and I just held up my camera with the international sort of symbol of, you know, can I take your photo? Because you couldn't speak English and I couldn't speak German and it turns out, you know, Swiss army knives have a lifetime warranty. [02:45:31] Speaker A: Do they? [02:45:32] Speaker B: If you. Yeah, they do. If you have to claim a lifetime warranty from Victorianox with army knives. [02:45:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:45:40] Speaker B: This is the guy that fixes them. No, yeah, I know. I found him. [02:45:46] Speaker A: Seriously? He's actually fixing it? [02:45:50] Speaker B: Yes. [02:45:52] Speaker A: Wow. [02:45:53] Speaker B: Don't think his cigar was actually even lit. [02:45:58] Speaker A: Wow. [02:45:59] Speaker B: So that's. [02:45:59] Speaker A: This is their warranty department. [02:46:02] Speaker B: Well, I don't know how it works, but he's the guy that fixes them and he's got all these other knives on his table that he's got to fix and. Yeah, so if you're. If you're in Switzerland around Lake Thun, you'll see this guy on the main street and his shop hasn't changed. And yeah. Go and say hello. [02:46:20] Speaker A: That is so cool. Who would have thought that. That you would think they would just get sent back to some factory and they would just throw them in the bin and send you a new one you don't like. [02:46:31] Speaker B: Yep. There's a guy like literally with a lifetime of experience. Like, look at the, look at the band aid on his finger. [02:46:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [02:46:41] Speaker B: How'd you cut yourself? And just look at you. [02:46:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:46:47] Speaker B: That might be a fun way to finish. Because when you mentioned the boot maker Like a lot of those hands on jobs and things, they're, they're kind of extinct, aren't they? [02:46:55] Speaker A: They are, but there is, there is certainly with YouTube and stuff, there is a resurgence of crafts, you know, for sure. You know, people see, you see people that make hats, you know, one off, one off hats and even boots. I'm sure there's, there's a ton of them. And, you know, people will invest money in them because they can see what goes into the work. So certainly on the wide scale, you know, for everyday items. It's probably not off, but I bought a knife recently made by, made by someone in Melbourne. You know, like, it's just a handmade steel kitchen knife. So it's like, I think people's, people's hobbies and passions are bringing them to those, those things. So hopefully. [02:47:46] Speaker B: Agreed. Yeah, I think we'll see more of it. [02:47:49] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, like film, photography and that kind of stuff, it becomes, Yeah. A passion for people as opposed to, you know, a mainstream job. But they, with, with YouTube and stuff, it can become a job if they're willing to show the world what they do, I guess. [02:48:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I think there, there's a lot of that now. Like a lot of people are shying away from the corporate, you know, ladder climbing career. That would have been the best thing you could have done 20 years ago, but now I'm not so sure. A lot of people are moving away from that and doing what they. What are the millennials say? They're living their own truth. [02:48:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Find your own. Find your own path and do something you love. That's my advice. [02:48:42] Speaker B: Yep, I agree. [02:48:43] Speaker A: Let's leave it on. [02:48:44] Speaker B: That sounds great. [02:48:46] Speaker A: Cool. Thank you. Thanks everyone who listened. It was awesome. Wonderful chat. Can't wait for the next one. [02:48:54] Speaker B: Yeah, me too. Look forward to it. We'll get Matt Palmer in there and we'll get Paul Faris from the fellow genius. We've worked out your next few podcasts now too. [02:49:03] Speaker A: I know. This has been a gold mine. I can't wait. And I'll start emailing everyone as soon as I finish this up. [02:49:10] Speaker B: Yes, well, it's fresh. [02:49:12] Speaker A: All right, bye, everybody. [02:49:14] Speaker B: Thanks. Bye, everyone.